What makes a good zombie. Do games have it wrong?

[Bodzilla]

This is me and flying stone discussing the new left 4 dead cinematic trailer.



-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: i think they've got the concept of a zombie a bit backwards :/
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: the Archetype behind the entire zombie
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: is that it never sleeps
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: it never eats
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: it never stops
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: it's this un shakable dog
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: that slowly drives you into a corner and suffocates your only way out
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: Speed plays a big part
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: these running zombies are a bit :S
FlyingStone: no it make sense in a way
FlyingStone: there human form
FlyingStone: so there runners
FlyingStone: and because there crazy fuckers they case down anyone
FlyingStone: there disorganized fools that will kill themselfs and everyone else
FlyingStone: besides
FlyingStone: might add a different type of gameplay
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: but it goes against the zombie thing man
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: there living dead
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: rotting muscles and what not :S
FlyingStone: yeah thats true
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: they dont have the intelligence or power to move quickly
FlyingStone: good point
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: it's just this menace that alwasy there
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: always chasing
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: always hunting you
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: that drives the fear of them
FlyingStone: yeah true true
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: it's suffocation and despair that drives them hey
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: not you know, Malice and aggession
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: they arnt smart enough lol
-=AWOL=- Zilla baby!: Does this call for a good zombie thread?
FlyingStone: i do belive so, i do belive so its quite debateable


So whats you opinion.

[Terry]

Well, since they somehow have the ability to live after they are dead, I would imagine they'd somehow have the ability to move quickly. Although, that's just my take on it.

[Bodzilla]

but it comes down to intelligence and control, and when your a rotting corpse you generally dont have alot of either. I cant see a zombie running without you know, falling over.

[JunkfoodMan]

Well, They should have a mix. If the Long-time dead are really coming to life, walking decomposing dead etc, then they should be slow. If they're just recently Zombified, they should be able to run quickly. I think they should implement both types in a way.

[Bodzilla]

but what about the archetype behind the original zombies?
this slow moving, unshakeable, in plague proportions that hound, never sleep, eats and slowly chokes off your exits and drives you into despair :/

something fast and menacing sorta goes against the unshakeable horror zombies originally had

[Terry]

Well, speaking in a gameplay point of view, speed would probably be better. Realistically speaking, you can avoid slow moving zombies relatively easily, once you don't allow them to confine you. Although, thinking about it, if designed well, the slow moving zombies can actually be quite frightening in large numbers.

But where quantities are somewhat limited, for example, an encounter with like 4-5 zombies, will probably need some amount of speed and ferocity to make it atleast cause you to pump a little adrenaline.


But I do catch your point though. It would just require a large amount of zombie instances to make it hectic.

[Trinx]

The 'zombies' in the game aren't actually zombies at all. They're just called zombies so that the average person would understand. They are really infected people (with the rage virus) ala 28 Days Later. Gameplay wise this is an arcade style FPS, so I would expect running enemies anyways.

[CN3089]

Technically the Left 4 Dead 'zombies' aren't dead, they're 'infected.' :ssh:

e:f;b

[JunkfoodMan]

Well, fast-moving zombies are also a plague-like non-stop unshakable force. Except faster, so there's no time to rest or make a pit stop. It kinda reinforces the whole "Non-stop force that constantly hounds" description you have going for the Old Slow-moving, Arms-raised-at-a-90-degree-angle zombie. I just never saw anybody being killed by these slow-moving dim-witted people as being realistic. Anybody could just run away or drive away fast enough to take a rest at a place and fortify it. Or you could just Pick them off one-by-one.
With fast moving zombies, you have to think fast. These aren't things that slowly approach you or give you a chance to run away. They're killing machines, like a large pack of blood-crazed dogs.
Just think, what would be worse, Being hunted by a group of people slowly walking or jogging to you, or a group of blood-crazed people with enough speed to out-run a dog?

[Bodzilla]

I dunno, zombies wear people down with un-relenting assaults :/
Fast paced action doesnt seem to fit that.

[ExAm]

Zombie purists are resistant to change! You don't want to be like a Republican, do you?

[Bodzilla]

Quiet socialist scum!

but i dunno, it's just not a zombie if it moves like an athlete :/

[FlyingStone]

zilla is just jealous he can't move that fast.
Fat bastard.

But I think it just depends on the game. I mean we can't accurately say that they would be brain dead piles of moving rotten flesh. For all we know the infection strain could just make them brain dead but keep all the reflexes and ability's of movement a human can, if not enhance them.

Its all debatable.

[n00b1n8R]

I think it's a really cool new style for zombies.
They're a lot more human and that in turn makes them more frightening. They're smart and they're going to use more than just weight of numbers to get you.

And shit, I actually want this game now D:

On a related note: 3rd person cutscenes? In my Valve?

[legionaire45]

I think it depends on the type of zombie you are dealing with.

Slow zombies are good for dragged out suspense type things (eg. Night of the Living Dead, etc.).

Fast zombies are good for action type stuff (28 Days/Weeks later).

[ima_from_America]

Zombie purists are resistant to change! You don't want to be like a Republican, do you?

I have found a chart, that proves that they have no emotion whatsoever. They are machines that won't stop until all of us are dead.

http://uglyrepublicans.com/republicans/United-States/Dick-Cheney/cheney_emotional_chart.jpg

[rossmum]

The general definition of zombie, for me, is something that has previously died or is for all intents and purposes dead, but something's controlling it anyway. A lot of people tend to just stick with your classic brain-craving shamblies with no intelligence, no way of communicating or coordinating their efforts, but they're always there, inexorably creeping up on you, relentless in their attacks. I agree that that's pretty bloody scary, but what creeps me out even more is the thought of that kind of determination coupled with the ability to reason (at least partially), to outsmart you rather than just drown you in bodies. If any of you have seen Outpost, that kind of thing (or to use another example we're all familiar with - the Flood. I've never faced a more terrifying enemy in a game, and I doubt I ever will).

Just because something is smart or fast, it doesn't make it a bad zombie - it just makes it a different kind. Personally I prefer facing the smart sort, because it's all the more terrifying and you really do have to watch your every step.

[Kornman00]

since zombies are made up, there is no definitive answer. game devs are just using their artistic license.

kinda like alien games

e: to clarify, I'm not saying that aliens are made up, just the video games about them :downs:

[Bodzilla]

You make a compelling argument Rossmum.

interesting.

[FluffyDucky™]

since zombies are made up, there is no definitive answer. game devs are just using their artistic license.

kinda like alien games

e: to clarify, I'm not saying that aliens are made up, just the video games about them :downs:

Are you a believer? I am. :)

And also, do zombies have to be dead then come back alive? Or would you count the thingos in 24 days/weeks later (the movies) as zombies?

[Kornman00]

And also, do zombies have to be dead then come back alive? Or would you count the thingos in 24 days/weeks later (the movies) as zombies?
Well, I guess you can say becoming a zombie is alot like contracting an STD; there are multiple ways to become\get one, but in the end...you're a zombie\have an STD :-3

[Sel]

On the topic of speed, and the muscles rotting and preventing them from going quickly: If they're freshly dead, then yes they should be able to run normally as any other human would be able to, since their muscles and shit haven't had time to rot at all. Right?

[TeeKup]

Dead Space nailed it on the head imo.

[Kornman00]

damn, so would you say it is a game worth the 60 bucks then Mr. Teekup?

Should have bought it while I was at the store today :-/

[Disaster]

damn, so would you say it is a game worth the 60 bucks then Mr. Teekup?

Should have bought it while I was at the store today :-/
If it was $100 bucks I would have bought it. :XD:

[TeeKup]

damn, so would you say it is a game worth the 60 bucks then Mr. Teekup?

Should have bought it while I was at the store today :-/

Worth every penny.

[Heathen]

Well its not always the living dead exactly. It could be a virus thing or even some kind of virus that infects the dead and reanimates them. It could stop the rotting of flesh and whatnot. I think running and shit is possible.

[FlyingStone]

*my thoughts*

Yeah I agree with ross.

[Ifafudafi]

Quite frankly, if it's rotting, ugly, and you can blow it's head apart with a shotgun, it's a zombie, no matter how fast it goes. Commence obligatory "LOL U MEAN LIEK UR MOM" comments.

While the classic zombie model of slow, lurching uglyman is good in its own right, I think that new approaches (Left 4 Dead, for example) are an excellent way to expand the original idea of the living dead into something much more original, and in games, fun to shoot.

[Heathen]

Its not like this is the first time the idea of fast zombies arose.

[Siliconmaster]

The fast zombies in HL2 scared the crap out of me the first time I saw them. They still give me the creeps. Sure, they might not make a whole lot of rational sense, but I don't care- I agree with Ifafudafi.

[Rob Oplawar]

I think the term "Zombie" has expanded to be more inclusive. So flood, headcrab-infected humans, "rage"-infected humans, and any other form of former human that has become an animalish thing is a zombie, which includes fast zombies and shape changers and you name it.

My personal preference is for the traditional "living-dead" zombies, who are actually reanimated flesh of dead humans, so that some of the cells stay alive in some shape or form while much of the body decays around it. Those kinds of zombies are the slow-moving brainless kind that eventually destroy the world by their sheer number and the ease with which the infection spreads (and also the fact that the infection can spread to anybody who died before becoming infected, so long as they still have some organic tissue left).

I find fast zombies to be startling, but slow zombies to be gradually more and more terrifying, because they seem far more unnatural. Plus slow zombies remain "alive" until the flesh is destroyed (even continuing to live without the brain, although the brain is required for it to continue to hunt you), and so they can and do keep moving without stopping until their flesh completely decays, potentially "forever" if they can find food, whereas fast zombies have to expend so much more energy to keep their bodies together and keep them moving quickly and coherently that they can be killed without destroying all the flesh and they need much more food to continue "living", plus they need to rest.

Fast running zombies for cheap scares in movies with lazy writers, slow brainless living dead for the truly terrifying experience.

[FlyingStone]

I was a zombie once, I just stood there and drooled.

[Bodzilla]

Hi five, purist rob o/

welcome to the brother hood of the one true ZOMBIE.

[Zeph]

I despise the quick zombies. They're zombies ffs, not marathon runners with a craving for brains. If a person cant jump 30 feet in the air when he's not a zombie, becoming all zombified wont give him that ability.

[Bodzilla]

want in on the brother hood zeph?

on a side note mb i should have made this a poll, hmmm. I considered it but i thought i'd have too many people complaining for non-existent options :/

[Dwood]

I would have to agree with BOD *GHASP* and say that the Best kind of Zombie are the slow moving ones.

Simply because being trapped in a hall being chased by a horde of zombies would probably be the most terrifying thing to ever happen to me. A fast moving zombie would hardly leave time for the fear and feeling of hopelessness to sink in.

I'm waiting for the Zombie game that balances the fear with the amount of blood and cursing properly. People seem to put more blood in their bad guys than is realistic, as well as the number of cursing in games which bring it to an unrealistic level which fails to drive that fear home.

On a slightly offtopic note:

http://fc64.deviantart.com/fs35/f/2008/301/b/d/ACEO_2___Never_A_Good_Sign_by_ursulav.jpg

[Bodzilla]

just because i think you've got some weird and... err... eccentric political views doesnt mean i dont respect an opinion outside of it ;p

[Sel]

On a somewhat related note, why is there an ea logo at the beginning of the Left4Dead TV spot ad thing |:

[Hotrod]

Yeah, I see zombies as undead people, who don't have full control over their bodies, and aren't really pushed by any higher mind to do anything. Those zombies that are fast, and smart, aren't zombies, not to me. Maybe they're humans controlled by another's mind, but not zombies. The Flood, for example, aren't zombies, but those other things, infected, if you will.

It's not bad to derive from the true zombies, but you can't completely replace them.

[Dwood]

It's not bad to derive from the true zombies, but you can't completely replace them.

Agreed! I also think that if they aren't really zombies people should name them properly then. :/

[Rob Oplawar]

Join me in the Brotherhood of the Zombie, Bod.
<---------------------------------

[DaneO'Roo]

I'd have to agree with you guys. On one hand, a zombie velociraptor would be epic, but a mass of zombie turtles would just be downright creepy as fuck.

[Timo]

I've always wanted to need to mow a zombie down into little pieces before it wasn't a threat. HL2 kind of touched on this with only top halves of head-crab zombies if you killed them right, but it should be down to hands with a bit of fore arm creeping toward you. I can just see you reaching a flight of stairs or something and coming back for ammo to find a pile of zombie parts all trying to climb the stairs D:

I realise that zombies in most games don't fit their normal definition, but as long as they're fun to slaughter I don't care.

[FluffyDucky™]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/funny-pictures-zombie-kitten-cat.jpg

That working for ya? Ima guess not... :(

[Kornman00]

but a mass of zombie turtles would just be downright creepy as fuck.
covered in...chocolate, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, chocolate turtle brains