State Sponsored Terrorism [Archive]

SnaFuBAR

January 12th, 2009, 04:46 AM

If you were expecting Islamic extremists, well, to say the least you're entirely wrong. The fact of the matter is that Israeli religious leaders and the Israeli Defense Force is openly calling for the murder of Palestinians, militants, men, women and children alike.

How could anyone support a state of this mentality?

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/154411-Cheerleading-genocide

"Recently, Israel's Deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai threatened to "inflict a greater holocaust" on Palestinians. Similarly, a growing number of rabbis associated with the two largest religious camps in Israel, the Haredi ultra-Orthodox religious sector and the national Zionist religious sector, issuing one edict after the other, permitting soldiers to murder at will Palestinian civilians, including children, on the grounds that in war all among the enemy population ought to be treated as combatants, including children."

"Recently Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director of the Tsomet Institute, a religious seminary attended by Israeli settlers in the West Bank, declared: "All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts." And the chief rabbi of the City of Safad, Shmuel Eliyahu, urged the state and the army recently to hang the children of a Palestinian fighter who last month attacked the Merkaz Haarav Centre, run for Jewish settlers in West Jerusalem, killing eight pre-military Talmudic students in retaliation for the killing by the Israeli army of more than 130 Palestinians, most of them innocent civilians, in the Gaza Strip. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm

"The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said."

"In this practice, the Israeli army would force local Palestinians to approach the homes of militants and ask them to surrender."

In case you don't see the irony in the Israeli behavior, they've cried wolf about an Iranian inflicted holocaust, pointed to the history books about Hitler's aggression and the holocaust, and so forth, yet here they stand ready to incite that very same thing. The Jews becoming the Nazis, and the very thing we sought to extinguish (yes so fervorously support with the aid of hundreds of billions of dollars and weapons).

"Never again".

ExAm

January 12th, 2009, 04:58 AM

Israel needs to get the fuck out of the area. They stole the land from the Palestinians in the first place, citing religious reasons. No one has the right to do take land from people and drive them out, for any reason whatsoever.
And now, for them to go and basically start an extermination, is fucking disgusting. All countries currently supporting Israel would do well to cut off that support in light of this.

nooBBooze

January 12th, 2009, 05:13 AM

Assuming they really would pull out and some kind of agreement would be signed with some group representing most palestinians, the families destroyed in the past decades would still make for enough "terrorists" disrupting the efforts for peace out of personal revenge and/or mere self destruction. So if these people commit multiple murders, chances are it will be deemed acts of "terrorism" and will be treated according to their assumed political motives.
Besides, it seems like most arabs of the area wouldnt want to settle for anything less than the complete dissolution of the nationstate of israel wich of course is never going to happen.
The only way to resolve this eternal dilemma is to stop caring.

SnaFuBAR

January 12th, 2009, 05:23 AM

That's not what this is about, Noob. It's about the audacity of the Israelis to openly call for the wholesale slaughter of every Palestinian. Will this make it to headline news for one month like the epic mis-quote of the Iranian president? Of course not, because Israel is our "ally".

The topic is ISRAELIS CALLING FOR THE HOLOCAUST OF THE PALESTINIANS. This has nothing to do with peace resolutions, etc, because the Israeli's don't want that. Next time, try making a relevant post. Treaties have nothing to do with GENOCIDE.

Also, also, how the FUCK could you possibly shift the point from genocide to "arabs of the area wouldnt want to settle for anything less than the complete dissolution of the nationstate of israel". Seriously how the fuck?

ExAm

January 12th, 2009, 05:45 AM

Israel is now using white phosphorous (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090111/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_white_phosphorus) in Gaza. Use of white phosphorous has been outlawed by a treaty which Israel signed, and they are now in violation of that treaty.

CN3089

January 12th, 2009, 06:31 AM

death to israel, close thread

DaneO'Roo

January 12th, 2009, 06:54 AM

In before US funded false flag operation to start new world war.

Also in before Obama says no to Americas interference, then JFK Mark 2, causing mass hysteria in the black community resulting in awesome.

G I like spunning shit.

Bodzilla

January 12th, 2009, 06:59 AM

death to israel, close thread
it's ironic that these actions make me want to grab a ski-mask and AK 47 and stand up for whats right.

This is a disgusting, vile, dangerous and genocidal path that throughout the course of history has been shown time and time again to break down the society of everything that has been accomplished since the last fucking time it happened. Only this time with longer lasting effects, bigger guns and Human shields? you have got to be fucking kidding me.

Fucking abominable.

Never again.
Fuck Israel and fuck anyone who supports this or twists these words for their own agenda to support the scum of the earth that not only assisted but enabled another holocaust.

p0lar_bear

January 12th, 2009, 12:06 PM

Someone should kick Israel in the balls before they get rolling. That's the mistake everyone made with Hitler.

Anton

January 12th, 2009, 12:44 PM

This fucking sickens me, who the fuck does Israel think they are?

--oh wait.

SnaFuBAR

January 12th, 2009, 03:20 PM

Israel is an aggressive, expansionist, hate-mongering state founded on racism.

Huero

January 12th, 2009, 03:32 PM

Israel is an aggressive, expansionist, hate-mongering state founded on racism.

sounds like some other country i know

regardless yes Israel is pretty much causing a genocide.
Israel probably should get their asses kicked, but I doubt the US is going to do fuck ALL about it as we seem to have supported them in everything ever
still, hamas is hardly a nice organization either.

SnaFuBAR

January 12th, 2009, 03:42 PM

sounds like some other country i know

regardless yes Israel is pretty much causing a genocide.
Israel probably should get their asses kicked, but I doubt the US is going to do fuck ALL about it as we seem to have supported them in everything ever
still, hamas is hardly a nice organization either.

Some other country? Oh say... Nazi Germany? (It's not Iran, because the Iranian president didn't incite genocide, again, that was the epic misquote of the year)

It has nothing to do with hamas at all though, other than IDF wanting to use Palestinians for body shields for raids on suspected terrorist homes. This is Israel wanting to wipe out all Palestinians.

"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts."

ExAm

January 12th, 2009, 04:11 PM

dark57

January 12th, 2009, 05:30 PM

and i used to think Israel was a good place :( guess i gotta move.

Masterz1337

January 12th, 2009, 05:34 PM

I'm curious, why isn't this being reported by any other news? I mean, to come out and say that, You'd figure there be protests in American streets over such a claim, or SOME news channel reporting it. I just find it odd this seems to be the only site I have heard this from.

Edit: Don't use the American government is covering it up. This would defiantly be on other sites as well.

Huero

January 12th, 2009, 07:31 PM

The US has been repeatedly blocking Israel's recent requests to use Iraqi airspace to attack Iran.

how about taking action against israel for the first time
ever

Dwood

January 12th, 2009, 07:36 PM

CN3089

January 12th, 2009, 09:11 PM

Masterz1337

January 12th, 2009, 09:19 PM

Care to link me to legitiment news sources so I can look like an idiot again?

ExAm

January 12th, 2009, 10:05 PM

Care to link me to legitiment news sources so I can look like an idiot again?

I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJaPZLNLBu8)
Think (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c)
You (http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11747)
Need (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7819492.stm)
A (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7802515.stm)
Reality (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7809699.stm)
Check (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html?xid=site-cnn-partner)

Masterz1337

January 12th, 2009, 10:19 PM

You need to learn to fucking read. Answer my question rather than sidestep it. No doubt Israel has crossed the line, and they should be held accountable for their war crimes.

If you can't answer my question then don't respond to me.

Bodzilla

January 12th, 2009, 10:24 PM

i dont understand where your going with this Masterz, you asked to be linked to legitimate news sources, he delivered.

what choo talking bout foo.

Masterz1337

January 12th, 2009, 10:32 PM

So where in any of these articles did it state Israel wanted to wipe out the palestinien people? Why are none of these articles stating that Israel is intending to commit Genocide?

Bodzilla

January 12th, 2009, 10:34 PM

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/154411-Cheerleading-genocide

this one.

Masterz1337

January 12th, 2009, 10:46 PM

You call a website that talks about the US in an Axis of Evil and has a dedicated section to UFOs a legit news site?

Bodzilla

January 12th, 2009, 10:49 PM

you call quotes from the rabbi's illegitimate?

Masterz1337

January 12th, 2009, 10:56 PM

I don't see any other site providing the same quote from the rabbi or the Defence minister. I've been waiting and no one has been able to provide. Also, if the rabbi did say that, what does it matter? He's as relevelant as Obama's pastor.

CN3089

January 13th, 2009, 02:03 AM

Masterz1337

January 13th, 2009, 02:26 AM

A few months later, Mr Barak’s loyal deputy, Matan Vilnai, made his now infamous comment that, should the rocket fire continue, Gazans would face a “shoah” -- the Hebrew word for holocaust.

"Recently, Israel's Deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai threatened to "inflict a greater holocaust" on Palestinians.

That's pretty different. You're now doing exactly what the media did to Iran's president, taking his statement completely out of context. Hell, the defense ministers comment doesn't even make sense. How do you explain a greater Holocost than the one during WW2 to a group of people who population is around 1.4 million. That comment says more about that man, rather than the polices of the Israeli government as a whole. Or the people of Israel.

DaneO'Roo

January 13th, 2009, 02:29 AM

Masterz won.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 02:55 AM

That's pretty different. You're now doing exactly what the media did to Iran's president, taking his statement completely out of context. Hell, the defense ministers comment doesn't even make sense. How do you explain a greater Holocost than the one during WW2 to a group of people who population is around 1.4 million. That comment says more about that man, rather than the polices of the Israeli government as a whole. Or the people of Israel.

What's the difference between threatening holocaust and greater holocaust? It's still the threat of holocaust :lol:
How is the threat of genocide taken out of context? rofl

This is the same message, with a word or two added in. The difference between what the Iranian president ACTUALLY said, and ALLEGEDLY said were absolutely and entirely different.

You lose.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 03:07 AM

Phopojijo

January 13th, 2009, 03:10 AM

That's pretty different. You're now doing exactly what the media did to Iran's president, taking his statement completely out of context. Hell, the defense ministers comment doesn't even make sense. How do you explain a greater Holocost than the one during WW2 to a group of people who population is around 1.4 million. That comment says more about that man, rather than the polices of the Israeli government as a whole. Or the people of Israel.Note how they never say "A greater holocaust" in comparison to the Nazis.

Nor would they.

Why would they compare themselves to Hitler intentionally.

You're pluckin' hairs on a peach dude. He still said the Hebrew word for holocaust no matter which way you slice it.

Edit: But you are right dude... that would be "pretty different"... if that's what it actually meant.

Masterz1337

January 13th, 2009, 03:56 AM

What's the difference between threatening holocaust and greater holocaust? It's still the threat of holocaust :lol:
How is the threat of genocide taken out of context? rofl

This is the same message, with a word or two added in. The difference between what the Iranian president ACTUALLY said, and ALLEGEDLY said were absolutely and entirely different.

You lose.

The difference that what he said was a warning if the rockets continued, they they would bring down a holocaust on them in retaliation. Snaf's quote is worded so it sounds like a plan in motion against them. Like I said, it's out of context.

Masterz1337

January 13th, 2009, 03:58 AM

Oh, for anyone not familiar with what white phosphorous does to a human (what Israel is shelling gaza with),

http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-content/uploads/image/white_phosphorusbone.jpg

Shelling civilians with this.

And it's disgusting if they are allowed to get away with it. Their objective is not to kill civilians, it's to kill the Hamas leaders and don't hesitate no matter what the collateral damage is. And for that they should be tried for war crimes.

Masterz1337

January 13th, 2009, 04:01 AM

Note how they never say "A greater holocaust" in comparison to the Nazis.

Nor would they.

Why would they compare themselves to Hitler intentionally.

You're pluckin' hairs on a peach dude. He still said the Hebrew word for holocaust no matter which way you slice it.

Edit: But you are right dude... that would be "pretty different"... if that's what it actually meant.
Well, my mistereptation is due to this

In case you don't see the irony in the Israeli behavior, they've cried wolf about an Iranian inflicted holocaust, pointed to the history books about Hitler's aggression and the holocaust, and so forth, yet here they stand ready to incite that very same thing. The Jews becoming the Nazis, and the very thing we sought to extinguish (yes so fervorously support with the aid of hundreds of billions of dollars and weapons).

"Never again".

You're right, if they were suggestion a holocaust greater than that against the Jews, then it would be a totally separate matter.

rossmum

January 13th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Israel is mad over-defensive because the generation following WWII were so horrified about it they decided never to let people walk all over them again, and I find it hilarious that for all the anti-Israel protests, nobody protests against the scum that knowingly provokes a very aggressive army and then runs and hides amongst civillians. Both sides are in the wrong but Hamas are absolute scum and to see people parading through capitals of OTHER countries waving their banners makes me sick (not to mention it's grounds for arrest under our anti-terror laws, which aren't being enforced). Israel needs to wake up and realise that they're only provoking even more hatred with their walls and strikes, and Hamas needs to be sorted right the fuck out. Unfortunately this absolute bullshit has been going on so bloody long that both sides seem to think they're right and very few people seem to maintain a (relatively) clear head about the issue.

Fun fact - WP was originally used as a smoke agent, but after its first uses in combat it was found that the smoke particles are too heavy and thus sink too rapidly to form an effective screen. Since then it has been used to mark targets for artillery, but particularly to burn out and demoralise enemy troops. Both sides used it in WWII and its effect on soldiers' morale was such that mortar crews found after a WP shelling would be summarily executed, no questions asked, nothing. There were never any restrictions placed upon it, and so it continues to be used while better-known incendiary agents are a political bombshell (napalm, looking at you). They damn well shouldn't be using it, but there's nothing to stop them and as far as I know, nobody ever made a serious move to ban it.

If Israel want to take out Hamas's leaders, they had a perfectly effective method before - assassination. Airstrikes against an enemy which uses civilians as a shield are never a good idea, as we learned in Afghanistan and Iraq. It's about time they realised the same.

Anyone know exactly what Hamas are firing? I know Hezbollah have Katyushas, from what I can tell Hamas's rockets are improv though. Whatever they are, they seem pretty destructive. I hardly see how firing explosives into old peoples' homes is any less revolting than firing WP into the streets, neither side can justify their actions and to act as though Hamas are anything other than a blight upon the Earth is just as bad as acting as if the Israelis are perfectly right to roll in and go to town in a heavily-populated area.

CN3089

January 13th, 2009, 07:24 AM

Anyone know exactly what Hamas are firing? I know Hezbollah have Katyushas, from what I can tell Hamas's rockets are improv though. Whatever they are, they seem pretty destructive. I hardly see how firing explosives into old peoples' homes is any less revolting than firing WP into the streets, neither side can justify their actions and to act as though Hamas are anything other than a blight upon the Earth is just as bad as acting as if the Israelis are perfectly right to roll in and go to town in a heavily-populated area.

They have some Katyushas as well, but mostly Qassams (improv), if I recall correctly.

KiDD

January 13th, 2009, 08:25 AM

Random

January 13th, 2009, 09:57 AM

If Israel came after us, would we be done? Their military is insaine. They are like monsters.

If by us you mean the USA they would get fucked. Because they are a modern military which has definite bases and such. Anyhow we give them a majority of their stuff, thus we cut off their supplies leaving them with a handful of their home grown armaments.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 12:18 PM

Anton

January 13th, 2009, 12:44 PM

Funny how Israel created and creates a lot of the most famous weapons we know now.

Also, if Israel turned against America, America would send some nice nuclear bombs. The government is like monkeys, testing to see how much the guinea pigs can take. Of course it wont happen because Israel and America are at good terms. :P

You're an idiot.

E. Now, on topic: So is Hamas a international organization? ..or are they just based solely in the Gaza area and are spilling over into surrounding nations?

Masterz1337

January 13th, 2009, 02:15 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

They're just a organization that has gained power.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 03:57 PM

If Israel came after us, would we be done? Their military is insaine. They are like monsters.
Are you kidding? If Israel came after us, our other mid-east allies would be so quick at the chance of destroying them it wouldn't even be funny. Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc (especially Saudi Arabia) and their modern armies would overwhelm Israel quickly. Then they'd have to deal with us coming over from Iraq and occupying the Mediterranean with our warships. Facing a superpower, they wouldn't last one week. Without our monetary and weapon aide, Israel wouldn't have survived this 60 years.

Funny how Israel created and creates a lot of the most famous weapons we know now.
They create very very few weapons of their own. 99% of their armament is retooled weapons that are captured or given to them. The Galil is a modified AK (captured from egypt), the Desert Eagle was a joint venture with Magnum Research Labs (US), the Uzi is inspired by a European rifle (don't remember which), their original tanks were modified Shermans (US). So... that only leaves the Tavor rifle (good rifle) and the Merkava tank (which sucks).

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 04:19 PM

Are you kidding? If Israel came after us, our other mid-east allies would be so quick at the chance of destroying them it wouldn't even be funny. Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc (especially Saudi Arabia) and their modern armies would overwhelm Israel quickly. Then they'd have to deal with us coming over from Iraq and occupying the Mediterranean with our warships.

Wait, I think they already beat them in the 6 day war. Don't tell me it was cause of aid. The other countries had what they needed for war, yet I guess they lost.. lol.

ExAm

January 13th, 2009, 04:37 PM

but there's nothing to stop them and as far as I know, nobody ever made a serious move to ban it.*cough* geneva treaties *cough*

Dwood

January 13th, 2009, 04:45 PM

*cough* geneva treaties *cough*

They're a piece of paper.

Bodzilla

January 13th, 2009, 05:03 PM

They're a piece of paper.

Wait, I think they already beat them in the 6 day war. Don't tell me it was cause of aid. The other countries had what they needed for war, yet I guess they lost.. lol.

URRGH.

where did we go so wrong :smith:

TeeKup

January 13th, 2009, 05:08 PM

Fear you seem to be a bit naive to be talking about politics to be perfectly honest.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:10 PM

Fear you seem to be a bit naive to be talking about politics to be perfectly honest.

No, I dont think so.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 05:10 PM

Wait, I think they already beat them in the 6 day war. Don't tell me it was cause of aid. The other countries had what they needed for war, yet I guess they lost.. lol.
I said their modern armies. Egyptian army was poorly trained at that time. Also, yes, it was because of aide. If France hadn't given Israel their airforce, they would've been overwhelmed. Israel launched a pre-emptive strike and destroyed neighboring airforces on the ground. Again, they survive because of aide.

If you're going to argue a point, know what you're talking about, thanks.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:14 PM

I said their modern armies. Egyptian army was poorly trained at that time. Also, yes, it was because of aide. If France hadn't given Israel their airforce, they would've been overwhelmed. Israel launched a pre-emptive strike and destroyed neighboring airforces on the ground. Again, they survive because of aide.

If you're going to argue a point, know what you're talking about, thanks.

Im sorry, go look at wiki. It shows that the other countries did still have an air force. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 05:20 PM

The attack was more successful than expected, catching the Egyptians by surprise and destroying virtually all of the Egyptian Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Force) on the ground, with few Israeli casualties. Over 300 Egyptian aircraft were destroyed and 100 Egyptian pilots were killed.[103] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_day_war#cite_note-102) Among the Egyptian planes lost were all 30 Tu-16 bombers, as well as 27 out of 40 Il-28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-28) bombers, 12 Su-7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-7) fighter-bombers, over 90 Mig-21s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-21), 20 Mig-19s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-19), 25 Mig-17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-17) fighters and around 32 assorted transport planes and helicopters. The Israelis lost 19 planes, mostly operational losses (mechanical failure, accidents, etc). The attack guaranteed Israeli air superiority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_superiority) for the rest of the war.

Subsequent attacks against secondary Egyptian airfields as well as Jordanian, Syrian, and Iraqi fields wiped out most of those nations' air forces

Try again. Maybe YOU should read the wiki.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:20 PM

Strength:
957 combat aircraft

Casualties and losses:
400 aircraft destroyed

Do the math.

TeeKup

January 13th, 2009, 05:22 PM

No, I dont think so.
I'm sorry you're not going to blow me off that easily just so you can have your little argument with Snafubar.

Your recent posting has shown NOTHING but poor and naive reasoning accompanied by false and often outright wrong information. Several other members have pointed this out and have tried to correct you or at the very least what you're saying, everytime you either ignored them or back lashed at them.

Personally I think you should stop and re-assess your reasoning in being here.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 05:24 PM

Strength:
957 combat aircraft

Casualties and losses:
400 aircraft destroyed

Do the math.
I'm sorry, what?
Egypt had by far the largest and the most modern of all the Arab air forces, consisting of about 450 combat aircraft

Again, read the wiki.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:25 PM

I'm sorry you're not going to blow me off that easily just so you can have your little argument with Snafubar.

Your recent posting has shown NOTHING but poor and naive reasoning accompanied by false and often outright wrong information. Several other members have pointed this out and have tried to correct you or at the very least what you're saying, everytime you either ignored them or back lashed at them.

Personally I think you should stop and re-assess your reasoning in being here.

There is no re-thinking about it. Just because its not there opinions, doesnt mean im wrong. Nor will I change my opinion due to the fact you say I should.

What I believe, is what I believe. I will freely state that. If you dont like it, dont read my posts.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:28 PM

I'm sorry, what?

Again, read the wiki.
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/Joshflighter/wut.jpg

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 05:31 PM

Do you believe that every aircraft has to be destroyed to severely weaken and immobilize an airforce? Are you dense? Do you realize how little damage a supersonic jet has to take in order to not be useful?

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:34 PM

If France hadn't given Israel their airforce, they would've been overwhelmed. Israel launched a pre-emptive strike and destroyed neighboring airforces on the ground. Again, they survive because of aide.

So you can count that one out then. Israel had about the same amount of aircraft.

EDIT: Owai, they had even less if you calculate it out.. lol.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 05:40 PM

Answer the question. Do you think you have to destroy every aircraft to incapacitate an airforce?

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:44 PM

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 05:50 PM

I guess 300+ aircraft isn't enough is it?

Also, then your argument about Israel getting 300 Aircraft doesn't stand, due to you saying 300+ isn't enough to bring down targets needed.

I think you have to bring down the number to a 2 digit count, before you don't have enough for attacks... That's to anwser your question.

Obviously using 288 combat aircraft flying 4 sorties a day each is plenty. I didn't say it wasn't enough to bring down the targets needed, and I have no idea how you could conjecture such an asinine idea. You obviously have no idea about force ratios, formations, tactics and all other areas of air combat. Bringing down numbers to a two-digit count is pretty much laughable.

No matter how you try to spin it, it still stands;

The attack was more successful than expected, catching the Egyptians by surprise and destroying virtually all of the Egyptian Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Force) on the ground, with few Israeli casualties. Over 300 Egyptian aircraft were destroyed and 100 Egyptian pilots were killed.[103] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_day_war#cite_note-102) Among the Egyptian planes lost were all 30 Tu-16 bombers, as well as 27 out of 40 Il-28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-28) bombers, 12 Su-7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-7) fighter-bombers, over 90 Mig-21s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-21), 20 Mig-19s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-19), 25 Mig-17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-17) fighters and around 32 assorted transport planes and helicopters. The Israelis lost 19 planes, mostly operational losses (mechanical failure, accidents, etc). The attack guaranteed Israeli air superiority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_superiority) for the rest of the war.

Subsequent attacks against secondary Egyptian airfields as well as Jordanian, Syrian, and Iraqi fields wiped out most of those nations' air forces

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:53 PM

"The attack was more successful than expected, catching the Egyptians by surprise and destroying virtually all of the Egyptian Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Force) on the ground"

That doesn't stand. Both sides had around the same amount of aircraft. :|

Subsequent attacks against secondary Egyptian airfields as well as Jordanian, Syrian, and Iraqi fields wiped out most of those nations' air forces

So you are basicly saying that, even though they had an airforce they failed to use it and basicly got owned?

TeeKup

January 13th, 2009, 05:55 PM

There is no re-thinking about it. Just because its not there opinions, doesnt mean im wrong. Nor will I change my opinion due to the fact you say I should.

I never asked you to change your opinion, I'm asking to you to please go back and re analyze the information you are defending in which you think is right, when it obviously isn't.

What I believe, is what I believe. I will freely state that. If you dont like it, dont read my posts.

Even when what you're stating defies majority logic and reason? So far all you've managed to do is make yourself sound like a self-righteous ignoramus.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 05:56 PM

I never asked you to change your opinion, I'm asking to you to please go back and re analyze the information you are defending in which you think is right, when it obviously isn't.

Even when what you're stating defies majority logic and reason? So far all you've managed to do is make yourself sound like a self-righteous ignoramus.

Uh no. I am not acting self-righteous.

I did show proof, so I did take your advice. But to Snaf, it seems what he thinks is a fact.

p0lar_bear

January 13th, 2009, 05:59 PM

So you are basicly saying that, even though they had an airforce they failed to use it and basicly got owned?
Egypt failed to use the airforce because they were caught with their pants down, so yes.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 06:00 PM

That doesn't stand. Both sides had around the same amount of aircraft. :|

So you are basicly saying that, even though they had an airforce they failed to use it and basicly got owned?
Do you not understand that Israel struck pre-emptively?

TeeKup

January 13th, 2009, 06:00 PM

Uh no. I am not acting self-righteous.

Then what the hell is this?

What I believe, is what I believe. I will freely state that. If you dont like it, dont read my posts.

That's not how this community exercise our debates.

I did show proof, so I did take your advice. But to Snaf, it seems what he thinks is a fact.

Yes you did show it, but you're analyzing it wrong.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 06:03 PM

Do you not understand that Israel struck pre-emptively?

And there were aircraft that still had the little engine and all the gadgets to fly. DO YOU not understand that?

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 06:05 PM

When you destroy aircraft on the ground and damage others control surfaces and structure and aerodynamics, they are unfit to fly, not to mention, also, that the runway is now clogged and unfit for aircraft to take off from.

Obviously you don't understand the nature of operating combat aircraft.

p0lar_bear

January 13th, 2009, 06:08 PM

And there were aircraft that still had the little engine and all the gadgets to fly. DO YOU not understand that?

Hard to fly a broken plane off a runway cluttered with debris while being shot at, hth.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 06:10 PM

And there were aircraft that still had the little engine and all the gadgets to fly. DO YOU not understand that?
sup guys apparently it only takes an engine and gadgets to fly, hth.

Mr Buckshot

January 13th, 2009, 06:14 PM

No concrete proof that Israel stole land from Palestine or any of that millennia-old stuff.

The best solution is to let the Gaza Strip be recognized as an autonomous nation. But nevertheless, the battle against terrorism must rage on.

You also have to realize that Hamas OPENLY DECLARED that part of their mission is to "kill all Jews." If you want to fight for independence, fine, although a Gandhi approach is preferable. But adding that "kill all Jews" line to your manifesto is going to tick off a lot of people. Plus, Israel is mostly Jewish...

Before Hamas took control, Israel was actually being pretty kind to the Gaza area people, but after Hamas took over, Israel terminated financial aid, and for good reason.

I know that Israeli strikes have caught plenty of Palestinian civilians in the blast, but don't forget one thing: The Americans have done far worse (and still are), without even being close to victorious. The Israelis are doing what they can to help civilians - they've even warned civilians to leave and take cover, but the militants are preventing that. I didn't see that in Iraq.

This war between the Israelis and the Gaza is probably not going to be effective in the long run, though. They may eliminate all the Hamas leaders now, but there are plenty of fighters with similar goals in the entire Middle East, and Palestine will happily accept them.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 06:14 PM

sup guys apparently it only takes an engine and gadgets to fly, hth.

No, I was putting it in the context for you to understand. hth. :)

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 06:16 PM

No concrete proof that Israel stole land from Palestine or any of that millennia-old stuff.

The best solution is to let the Gaza Strip be recognized as an autonomous nation. But nevertheless, the battle against terrorism must rage on.

You also have to realize that Hamas OPENLY DECLARED that part of their mission is to "kill all Jews." If you want to fight for independence, fine, although a Gandhi approach is preferable. But adding that "kill all Jews" line to your manifesto is going to tick off a lot of people. Plus, Israel is mostly Jewish...

Before Hamas took control, Israel was actually being pretty kind to the Gaza area people, but after Hamas took over, Israel terminated financial aid, and for good reason.

I know that Israeli strikes have caught plenty of Palestinian civilians in the blast, but don't forget one thing: The Americans have done far worse (and still are), without even being close to victorious. It's typical of Americans to point fingers at all the "human right violations" in other countries without realizing that their own military is one of the biggest bullies in the whole wide world.

This is the best comment in this whole thread. I wont argue here unless I get bored again. This sums it up the best.

p0lar_bear

January 13th, 2009, 06:18 PM

No concrete proof that Israel stole land from Palestine or any of that millennia-old stuff.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#Independence_and_first_years

After 1945 the United Kingdom became embroiled in an increasingly violent conflict with the Jews. In 1947, the British government withdrew from commitment to the Mandate of Palestine, stating it was unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews. The newly created United Nations approved the UN Partition Plan (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181) on November 29, 1947, dividing the country into two states, one Arab and one Jewish.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 06:18 PM

No, I was putting it in the context for you to understand. hth. :)
you can't put something into context when you're wrong and don't understand to begin with.

Also, buckshot, what the fuck, why are you posting? you post just to post, when you don't know jack shit.

E: Fear1337 agreeing with Buckshot only solidifies my opinion of him. You're just another know-nothing poster arguing for argument's sake.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 06:20 PM

you can't put something into context when you're wrong and don't understand to begin with.

Also, buckshot, what the fuck, why are you posting? you post just to post, when you don't know jack shit.

E: Fear1337 agreeing with Buckshot only solidifies my opinion of him.

No, you are wrong. And Buckshot knows what he is talking about. Most of it is true.

Bodzilla

January 13th, 2009, 06:21 PM

No, you are wrong. And Buckshot knows what he is talking about. Most of it is true.
:gonk:

p0lar_bear

January 13th, 2009, 06:24 PM

Let me remind you people of something: the state of Israel exists only as an apology to the Jewish population for the Holocaust.

Israel shouldn't be attacking or taking over jack shit.

Mr Buckshot

January 13th, 2009, 06:25 PM

Trust me, giving back their land isn't going to end any of the conflicts. If you've studied them in sources other than wikipedia, these Hamas militants are crazy. They hate anyone who isn't a Muslim, and even if the Gaza strip doubles in size and 100 tons of gold are given to the government and all the Palestinian people receive shitloads of food aid, they'll continue to launch strikes at Israel.

Not trying to offend Muslims, but these are extremist Muslims here. They'll do anything to make sure that whoever isn't one of them just burns. That includes their own kind.

I support the Israeli side of the war. Kill every Hamas now, end the rocket strikes for now until another crazy leadership takes over.

TeeKup

January 13th, 2009, 06:26 PM

No concrete proof that Israel stole land from Palestine or any of that millennia-old stuff.
You're a bloody idiot

The best solution is to let the Gaza Strip be recognized as an autonomous nation. But nevertheless, the battle against terrorism must rage on.

You're starting to sound like my soon to be idiotic ex-president

You also have to realize that Hamas OPENLY DECLARED that part of their mission is to "kill all Jews." If you want to fight for independence, fine, although a Gandhi approach is preferable. But adding that "kill all Jews" line to your manifesto is going to tick off a lot of people. Plus, Israel is mostly Jewish...

The entire nation was formed for the jewish people, did you fall asleep in world history?

Before Hamas took control, Israel was actually being pretty kind to the Gaza area people, but after Hamas took over, Israel terminated financial aid, and for good reason.

The ENTIRE REGION was living in peace under muslim rule before it was split into israel and palestine, the Islamic government didn't give a rats ass back then because they were focused on themselves and a peaceful existence. It wasn't until their land was stolen from them when they got pissed.

I know that Israeli strikes have caught plenty of Palestinian civilians in the blast, but don't forget one thing: The Americans have done far worse (and still are), without even being close to victorious. The Israelis are doing what they can to help civilians - they've even warned civilians to leave and take cover, but the militants are preventing that. I didn't see that in Iraq.

I find this statement a complete joke. The United States of America has some of the most advanced and accurate artiller, bombs, and missiles on the planet. Not to mention the "smart" explosives being used by infantry, including timed stun grenades and the like.

This war between the Israelis and the Gaza is probably not going to be effective in the long run, though. They may eliminate all the Hamas leaders now, but there are plenty of fighters with similar goals in the entire Middle East, and Palestine will happily accept them.

Are you that thick? The entire region is a massive powder keg, either side has the potential to caste all surrounding nations and their allies into a war.

Seriously.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 06:28 PM

No, you are wrong. And Buckshot knows what he is talking about. Most of it is true.
:omfg: :lol:

Trust me, giving back their land isn't going to end any of the conflicts. If you've studied them in sources other than wikipedia, these Hamas militants are crazy. They hate anyone who isn't a Muslim, and even if the Gaza strip doubles in size and 100 tons of gold are given to the government, they'll continue to launch strikes at Israel.

Not trying to offend Muslims, but these are extremist Muslims here. They'll do anything to make sure that whoever isn't one of them just burns. That includes their own kind.

I support the Israeli side of the war.
Why do you think these militants exist in the first place? Why do you think this extremism started in the first place? :lmao:

Mr Buckshot

January 13th, 2009, 06:31 PM

:omfg: :lol:

Why do you think these militants exist in the first place? Why do you think this extremism started in the first place? :lmao:

They have the same mentality as the extremists in other Middle Eastern countries. Why do you think 9/11 happened? They wanted to terrorize America, yes, but they also wanted to see as many white men die as possible, because they see white men as enemies of Muslims.

I think the land issue is less serious than the fact that Gaza is under the control of terrorists with the same state of mind as Al Qaeda and the Iraqi insurgents. They want to see others burn, and even if a prosperous Palestine is formed they won't stop fighting. They don't even need to be Palestinian - they'll welcome other extremists from Saudi Arabia and the like.

If this Israel-Palestine land conflict hadn't existed in the first place, this war might still have occurred, because land or no land there are madmen in the area who need to be killed or locked up for a long time.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 06:33 PM

Pre-Israel this problem didn't exist, hth.

Mr Buckshot

January 13th, 2009, 06:36 PM

Well Osama didn't have an issue with anyone about land, yet he acts very similarly to Hamas. I'm sure his manifesto also has a "kill all Jews" portion.

This isn't state-sponsored terrorism, this is a poorly coordinated effort to weed out a serious problem.

TeeKup

January 13th, 2009, 06:37 PM

Would you fucking stop mentioning Osama, that's an entirely different issue.

Joshflighter

January 13th, 2009, 06:38 PM

So you agree that terrisom is because of something that happened 60 years ago. I find that retarded.

p0lar_bear

January 13th, 2009, 06:40 PM

So you agree that terrisom is because of something that happened 60 years ago. I find that retarded.

Terrorism itself was founded when homo sapiens evolved enough to have emotions and sentient thoughts.

Palestinians going jihad on shit around them got popular around 60 years ago.

TeeKup

January 13th, 2009, 06:40 PM

So you agree that terrisom is because of something that happened 60 years ago. I find that retarded.

Then you're an idiot. When the region was formed into Israel, the UN essentially stole Islamic land and disrupted their way of life. All of it was unnecessary seeing as how the Muslims were letting jews practice their religion freely and peacefully in the first place.

The balance was disrupted giving birth to conflict, because the balance never should have been disrupted because it didn't fucking need to be.

Bodzilla

January 13th, 2009, 06:41 PM

So you agree that terrisom is because of something that happened 60 years ago. I find that retarded.
el oh fucking el.

Mr Buckshot

January 13th, 2009, 06:46 PM

LIke I said, even if you give them a big and rich Palestine, their leaders will kill anyone who doesn't follow their religion. They've even killed their own people in reckless attacks.

Israel's current military expedition isn't meant to weed out a chance for Palestinian people to get their land back. It's meant to stamp out a group of very undesirable individuals, it was just executed VERY POORLY hence the civilian casualties.

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 06:52 PM

Jews lived in PALESTINE before the Brits decided to give it to the Jews. They practiced their religion there, and everything was fine.

jngrow

January 13th, 2009, 06:55 PM

I find this statement a complete joke. The United States of America has some of the most advanced and accurate artiller, bombs, and missiles on the planet. Not to mention the "smart" explosives being used by infantry, including timed stun grenades and the like.

^Teekup

This is true, but at the same time these "smart" bombs etc. still aren't very good. I think at one point during Iraq, US had dropped around 100 smart bombs trying to take out various terrorist/Al Qaeda leaders, and none of them hit their intended targets. (Watch that movie "Why We Fight", I don't remember exact numbers).

TeeKup

January 13th, 2009, 06:57 PM

I will admit there have been mishaps. But saying the the US is as careless with their armaments just as any other nation is just wrong. The military has made great strides in trying to improve their armaments and reduce civilian casualties.

CN3089

January 13th, 2009, 06:58 PM

hey guys i'm a total retard and shit all over i/p threads!

My opinions are evil, uninformed and worthless, ignore my posts!

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/ALEVELBEYONDGETOUT.gif

death to israel, close thread

quotin dis cuz i'm down

jngrow

January 13th, 2009, 07:00 PM

Mr Buckshot

January 13th, 2009, 07:00 PM

SnaFuBAR

January 13th, 2009, 07:00 PM

A bomb is a bomb. If the Hamas leader is living near civilians, there's an explosion. Innocent people will die, no matter how smart the bomb is.

If you want to save all the civilians, you'd have to drop in ground troops and make sure all of them can actually tell who's who before going trigger-happy.
Maybe they should do that, then, since they brag that they're so hardcore and have special operations teams specifically trained for that exact purpose??

Based on the fact that the opposing point of view has a diminished capability to respond to facts, I am closing this thread.