How Weak Are We? [Archive]

KiDD

January 25th, 2009, 11:31 AM

This may be a very strange thread, but It just kept popping up in my mind.

I just watched mars attacks (You know you love it) and earlier The Day The Earth Stood still. In both movies human technology seems to be a bit obsolete. Whatever we fire at them just bounces off, just like in War of the worlds or even Independence Day. Now what I am getting at....Do you think we are really this weak? I know we have is missles that sure can destroy a city but what about something REALLY advanced. I know some of you may be yelling at me and saying "UH NO SHIT!" But I am getting sick of all of these damn movies where we are so weak!

P.S. If anyone wanted to watch it here is parts one.

YouTube - Mars Attacks part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFsqyNSH-jY)

Terry

January 25th, 2009, 11:35 AM

Well, they have to appear weaker than the aliens otherwise the struggle wouldn't be too interesting. You can't go over the top with how strong the aliens are to put us into scale, since that would just make the movie way too "apocalyptic" which may be a direction they don't want to follow.I'd say if we were attacked by such a thing, we could easily deal some major damage.

KiDD

January 25th, 2009, 11:36 AM

I still think that area 51 (or where ever the new facility is now) has some serious weapons in there.

Rentafence

January 25th, 2009, 11:43 AM

Nothing is realistically going to survive a nuclear weapon. Likewise, unless aliens have some sort of protective shields a la Star Trek, we shouldn't have a problem filling the bastards with lead.

Heathen

January 25th, 2009, 12:19 PM

I still think that area 51 (or where ever the new facility is now) has some serious weapons in there.
http://s396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/heathencopypasta/th__facepalm__by_Chimpantalones.gif (http://s396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/heathencopypasta/?start=20)

Area 51 has weapons, but has nothing to do with Aliens if thats what you were implying...

Needles

January 25th, 2009, 12:22 PM

I think we could beat aliens.

Really, it's not realistic that anything can survive getting damaged/hurt that much. We have nukes, missiles, tanks, air strikes, and machine guns. Seems like a winning combo to me (when we don't use them against each other, of course).

KiDD

January 25th, 2009, 12:22 PM

No, I just meant that if we have some hard ass weapons they are in secret places. That we have incredible things that obviously the public dosen't know about.

nooBBooze

January 25th, 2009, 12:28 PM

"We" have some horrible genetically engineered virus and bacteria strains.
P.S.: The alien invasion is not going to happen.

Disaster

January 25th, 2009, 12:32 PM

"We" have some horrible genetically engineered virus and bacteria strains.
P.S.: The alien invasion is not going to happen.
THe only problem is the alien race is most likely space faring and atm, we have no ground to space weapons :|

However, I'm sure under the situations, humans could come up with something to shoot them down. Also, If they were smart enought, they would just rain down weapons from space to earth similar to what happens with the Covies glass a planet in halo.

Limited

January 25th, 2009, 01:40 PM

I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no proof that aliens (in the sense you mean, such as intelligent) exist, and no proof that they are more technologically advanced than we are.

Hotrod

January 25th, 2009, 01:42 PM

I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no proof that aliens (in the sense you mean, such as intelligent) exist, and no proof that they are more technologically advanced than we are.
True, but what are the odds of there not being other intelligent life out there? If there is, then it's quite possible that it lives very, very, very far away from us.

Limited

January 25th, 2009, 01:48 PM

Lag pretty much summed it up in the wind turbine thread.

If these aliens are so advanced that they can keep sending shit here from the massive distance between their planet and ours, how come they keep crashing?

Donut

January 25th, 2009, 01:51 PM

i believe the thread is about how weak we are and how we would deal with an alien attack, not about whether aliens exist or not :|

Limited

January 25th, 2009, 02:34 PM

Well if it does happen, I'd say we are fucked, mainly because if they are smart enough to realise we are a threat, and develop technology, they will only attack if they believe they can win with little injuries. Just the same if we came across aliens, we probably wouldnt attack :P

nooBBooze

January 25th, 2009, 02:51 PM

Seems like Lag had a point though. They could really just rain some asteroids on us from afar without us ever seeing them.
There would be no need for it though as advanced lifeforms are quite rare in the universe and they could easlily harvest hypothetical ressources from other, more easily availabe sources. The only reason they would actually fight humankind is either because we threaten their very existence or because they like to troll us.
In any case, like the zombie apocalypse, alien invasion scenarios are a mere pop culture fad that picks up and/or incites (on) vague sentiments of fear of the populus.

Mr Buckshot

January 25th, 2009, 03:15 PM

True, but what are the odds of there not being other intelligent life out there? If there is, then it's quite possible that it lives very, very, very far away from us.

Agreed. I think there is sentient life out there, but not in this solar system as far as I know. The nearest extrasolar planets are many light-years away. If the aliens have the technology to travel that far in a short time (and I seriously doubt the claims that any aliens have come to Earth), I guess they'd have also all sorts of advanced weapons that can really threaten us.

Then again, some extrasolar planet out there might also be populated with life similar to Earth's, with the most sentient beings there pondering the same thing as we are.

Phopojijo

January 25th, 2009, 03:57 PM

Lets assume aliens exist.
Lets assume aliens are technologically advanced enough to visit us.

Do we have the technology to go on a whim and visit them? Nope.

So logically if they're more advanced in THAT regard, they probably will be more advanced in all regards.

But more importantly... yes... if we have an aliens attack film where humans would massively overpower them... it'd be a short movie.

Edit: -- And in Star Trek and such, there's times you see the crew visit alien civilizations that are LESS advanced than they are... so it does happen.

HDoan

January 25th, 2009, 04:12 PM

Phopojijo

January 25th, 2009, 04:30 PM

Notice how they only began officially reporting UFO crashes during WWII...

Heisenberg invented the uncertainty principle and the bastards dropped outta the sky... MUAHAHA

TeeKup

January 25th, 2009, 07:50 PM

I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no proof that aliens (in the sense you mean, such as intelligent) exist, and no proof that they are more technologically advanced than we are.

If you honestly expect that we're the only sentient beings in the universe then you really need to wake up.

jngrow

January 25th, 2009, 08:11 PM

Well, Mars Attacks is a pretty terrible movie to base this thought on, due to it's extreme inconsistency, as it's a comedy.

Limited

January 25th, 2009, 08:14 PM

If you honestly expect that we're the only sentient beings in the universe then you really need to wake up.
Life forms yes.

Organised, intelligent beings? Less probable.

Mr Buckshot

January 25th, 2009, 08:24 PM

Life forms yes.

Organised, intelligent beings? Less probable.

Ditto. When you look at the scientific theories that explain the origin of life on Earth, you'll see that it is quite likely for life to exist on other planets. Some moons and planets in our own solar system already have some but not all of the requirements for life to exist, e.g. Jupiter's moon Europa has an oxygen atmosphere and could potentially have liquid water, Mars' CO2 atmosphere sustains anaerobic organisms and if the pressure were higher liquid water could definitely flow on Mars' surface, in fact it once did, Saturn's moon Titan has all the right pressures and temperatures but the wrong gases/liquids.

Therefore in other solar systems, planets similar to Earth definitely can exist, and thus harbor life. Assuming evolution works the same way there, intelligent life isn't unlikely to exist, but we don't know.

Like I said, there could be a sentient intelligent species on an extrasolar planet wondering the same thing right now, maybe they know the laws of physics too and their technology is at the same level as ours, hence they can't find ETs but ponder about them.

CN3089

January 25th, 2009, 10:49 PM

THe only problem is the alien race is most likely space faring and atm, we have no ground to space weapons :|

China has a few. The USA and Russia have the capability too. Well, ground to high-orbit weapons, at least.

Sel

January 26th, 2009, 01:23 AM

If were not fucked, it's not an alien invasion guys.

Mr Buckshot

January 26th, 2009, 02:15 AM

China has a few. The USA and Russia have the capability too. Well, ground to high-orbit weapons, at least.

More than capability, didn't the USA recently shoot down an out-of-control satellite using a ground-launched missile?

CN3089

January 26th, 2009, 03:26 AM

More than capability, didn't the USA recently shoot down an out-of-control satellite using a ground-launched missile?
It was a specially modified standard missile, and it was launched from an AEGIS cruiser. I'm pretty sure they've cancelled/retired their old ASAT missile programs.

Cojafoji

January 26th, 2009, 03:05 PM

More than capability, didn't the USA recently shoot down an out-of-control satellite using a ground-launched missile?
very much so. it was actually from a naval ship that the missile was fired. also, there has been experimentation in the field of concentrated microwaves i.e. as a crowd control tool. also, we have chemically fired lasers, of which most are decently destructive. There's also been a development of a reliably powerful solid state laser, one that could be, say, mounted on a tank? Anyway, we're getting there...

Hunter

January 26th, 2009, 03:15 PM

=sw=warlord

January 26th, 2009, 10:04 PM

very much so. it was actually from a naval ship that the missile was fired. also, there has been experimentation in the field of concentrated microwaves i.e. as a crowd control tool. also, we have chemically fired lasers, of which most are decently destructive. There's also been a development of a reliably powerful solid state laser, one that could be, say, mounted on a tank? Anyway, we're getting there...
US Navy have been working on Railguns as well. (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b_OjZyQ6LGE)
You know, Aliens visit america each year their called immigrants, extra terrestrials if what your talking about there is a maths formla that was released by a few scientists a while back for inteligent beings and the number comes down to several million species are likely to exist wherther they can get here or not is a different matter.
They would need either wormhole tech or space warptech.

armoman92

January 26th, 2009, 11:51 PM

we need an infinite power source or something that can produce huge quantities of energy. That would allow us to have sheild generators.

If we could find some dilithium we could control a matter/antimatter reaction. Or we could make an artificial Quantum Singularity like the Romulans, but that's really dangerous.

We are weak.

Oh and limited, what evidence do you have that aliens dont exist and have tech far advanced than out own.

SnaFuBAR

January 27th, 2009, 02:24 AM

Here's how I see it. In a hypothetical scenario where they do exist, and are within our atmosphere, they either outclass us so much that initiating war, even contact, isn't anything they'd be interested in, OR that they are at least unsure that they are not weaponologicaly advanced enough to insure a decisive victory in war.

The other thing is that the logistics of their hypothetical distance for travel requires so many resources that transporting an army would not be a possibility and is restricted by their resources (much like our own space program).

Cojafoji

January 27th, 2009, 10:38 AM

Phopojijo

January 27th, 2009, 11:46 AM

Well, let's be honest (since most of you seem like die hard trekkies), fusion reactors are not that far off; there is your infinite source of power.

As for a warp core reaction scenario? I find it highly unlikely that anyone would ever build one of those on earth. It would be too dangerous, and really unpopular.Yeah but finding enough hydrogen (and its isotopes especially) to fuel these reactors on a global scale is quite far off.

I'm still quite a strong proponent of Nuclear energy... provided it's highly regulated and maintained (What up Chernobyl, What up Karen Silkwood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood), What up 3 Mile Island...) Sure its waste is highly lethal... however: A) It's solid and B) It's containable.

Better than kicking up Coal smoke up in the atmosphere... which btw... has Uranium in it.

Cojafoji

January 27th, 2009, 02:23 PM

Yeah but finding enough hydrogen (and its isotopes especially) to fuel these reactors on a global scale is quite far off.

I'm still quite a strong proponent of Nuclear energy... provided it's highly regulated and maintained (What up Chernobyl, What up Karen Silkwood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood), What up 3 Mile Island...) Sure its waste is highly lethal... however: A) It's solid and B) It's containable.

Better than kicking up Coal smoke up in the atmosphere... which btw... has Uranium in it.
You're thinking of fission, not fusion. You do however, have me with the deuterium thing.

Phopojijo

January 27th, 2009, 03:10 PM

You're thinking of fission, not fusion. You do however, have me with the deuterium thing.I wholy understand the difference between fission and fusion... you know, being a Physics major afterall :p

I was saying that Fission would probably be much more viable than fusion at this point... unless we harvest Hydrogen from somewhere.

DarkHalo003

January 27th, 2009, 05:16 PM

I hate the emphasis that people keep having on Aliens: "OSHI THAY CAN FLY AND USE DETH LAZARS AND SHIT!!!!! No, if anything, the movie Close Encounters or even Halo demonstrate how any aliens could be. People think that just because they aren't from Earth means that they can use telekinesis and other weird shit, when in reality they are probably as physically bound as we are. It pisses me off when I see movies like "Race to Witch Mountain" because it's so unrealistically stupid that it makes me almost throw up a little on the inside.

We aren't weak at all given we have nuclear warheads that could make an area barren for 200+ years and that we have bullets which cut through titanium like a scissor cuts through paper. The velocity of the bullets would be too much for a thing energy shield to handle and the Radiation would decimate any energy shielding because it constantly disrupts the fields around it, not to mention the explosion. The point of those movies is for people to see action, feel like shit against aliens, then watch humans bomb the hell out the aliens in a huge explosion. Welcome to showbiz.

Phopojijo

January 28th, 2009, 12:34 PM

We aren't weak at all given we have nuclear warheads that could make an area barren for 200+ years and that we have bullets which cut through titanium like a scissor cuts through paper. The velocity of the bullets would be too much for a thing energy shield to handle and the Radiation would decimate any energy shielding because it constantly disrupts the fields around it, not to mention the explosion. The point of those movies is for people to see action, feel like shit against aliens, then watch humans bomb the hell out the aliens in a huge explosion. Welcome to showbiz.You clearly have no clue about how physics works.

Firstly -- if Kevlar or BulletProof glass can stop a bullet... due to solid state bonding... which is a (fairly weak when compared to nuclear forces) electromagnetic force... it's conceivable that one could generate a field that is larger... since there obviously are larger fields in existence (otherwise no nucleus would stay bound together).

I mean how much energy would that take and would it be feasible? Probably not... but it's theoretically possible.

Secondly -- Some animals on earth can survive nuclear fallout... (insects like flies) it's conceivable that some creatures in space can similarly survive fallout.

Thirdly -- A nuclear explosion causes massive damage... true -- however it doesn't decimate everything. Otherwise, logically speaking, a nuclear explosion would carve a nearly perfect hemisphere out of the ground. If sand can survive the intense heat and pressure of a nuclear explosion... it's theoretically possible for some hypothetical field to deflect a nuclear explosion as well.

Obviously this is all words -- but yeah... learn a bit more physics. It's interesting when you dive into it.

The point still stands though -- obviously yes it is 100% because "that's what sells movie tickets".

CN3089

January 28th, 2009, 02:50 PM

We aren't weak at all given we have nuclear warheads that could make an area barren for 200+ years
You do know that both Hiroshima and Nagasaki are large cities. Even salted bombs wouldn't make an area uninhabitable for nearly that long.

=sw=warlord

January 28th, 2009, 03:07 PM

Cojafoji

January 28th, 2009, 03:18 PM

You do know that both Hiroshima and Nagasaki are large cities. Even salted bombs wouldn't make an area uninhabitable for nearly that long.
You're exactly right, a cobalt bomb would just wipe out all life. LOL!

Warsaw

January 28th, 2009, 06:21 PM

Good luck using bullets or nukes on silicon based life if it exists.

What the life is made out of has nothing to do with bullets or nukes. In fact, they would probably be easier to kill with such weapons since silicon-based life is inherently more unstable than carbon-based life, and indeed would not work in an Earth-like environment at all.

=sw=warlord

January 28th, 2009, 08:22 PM

What the life is made out of has nothing to do with bullets or nukes. In fact, they would probably be easier to kill with such weapons since silicon-based life is inherently more unstable than carbon-based life, and indeed would not work in an Earth-like environment at all.
i thinking more along the lines that some kinds of silicon is strong and tough which would raise the question of wherther bullets would penetrate or bounce off.

kid908

January 28th, 2009, 09:40 PM

Good luck using bullets or nukes on silicon based life if it exists.

if we ever get computers intelligent enough (A.I.) they would be somewhat silicon based "life" form =P

anyways, agressive species of life form with advance technology is unlikely. only reason they would attack us would be for resources, but we will never know until it happens.

also doesn't most nuclear rockets go to low orbit height anywayz? and the reason why those insects live nuclear radiation is because it mainly affect the cells that make up your intestine and digestive tracks. so it will, likely, have no effect on any lifeform that do not use the the means of gaining energy as we do, but the blast will kill them without strong enough shield/armour.

Not all shields work on the same level so depending on the species, one shield may deflect all while another are semi permuable because they either work on different frequency or different machanics all together.

to answer your question, yes. at our current level of technology, we will die. bio weap may be the most likely attack by the alien. doesn't destroy the environment or resources they need and they get rid of us without alerting us to their presence.

=sw=warlord

January 28th, 2009, 09:53 PM

The only reason i can see a extra terrestrial species wanting to contact us is for hostile matters.
rare minerals, farming other life support related materials.
If aliens wanted to be friends they would just send a probe they wouldn't send a fleet or what not just to say hi.

Mr Buckshot

January 28th, 2009, 10:17 PM

I only see a galactic war happening if humans do manage to establish significant colonies on the Moon or on Mars (maybe terraform them first?), and then the populations of those colonies demand sovereignty which Earth humans refuse to give, thus resulting in a violent revolution fought with space-age weapons.

Mass

January 28th, 2009, 10:29 PM

How weak are we?

It's bloody-fucking relative.

DarkHalo003

January 28th, 2009, 11:13 PM

Good luck using bullets or nukes on silicon based life if it exists.
I saw that movie too. :awesome:

And yet bullets easily penetrate through soldiers.

I know how physics work, I just don't honestly need to put in that one sheet doesn't equal 10 reinforced sheets.

CN, I'm talking about modern nukes. Those nukes used in the 50s were simply firecrackers compared to the ones we have now. If we used the nukes we have now on those cities, they would have been obliterated and completely abandoned.

Mr Buckshot

January 28th, 2009, 11:29 PM

if we ever get computers intelligent enough (A.I.) they would be somewhat silicon based "life" form =P

anyways, agressive species of life form with advance technology is unlikely. only reason they would attack us would be for resources, but we will never know until it happens.

also doesn't most nuclear rockets go to low orbit height anywayz? and the reason why those insects live nuclear radiation is because it mainly affect the cells that make up your intestine and digestive tracks. so it will, likely, have no effect on any lifeform that do not use the the means of gaining energy as we do, but the blast will kill them without strong enough shield/armour.

Not all shields work on the same level so depending on the species, one shield may deflect all while another are semi permuable because they either work on different frequency or different machanics all together.

to answer your question, yes. at our current level of technology, we will die. bio weap may be the most likely attack by the alien. doesn't destroy the environment or resources they need and they get rid of us without alerting us to their presence.

To be specific: Bugs can be killed in the blast, however they aren't as easily affected by nuclear radiation as us fleshy mammals, due to their exoskeletons. If you've seen The Animatrix (second renaissance part 2), you'll notice that a sustained nuclear bombardment devastated a robot city but failed to destroy most elements of the robot population - because they were immune to the more harmful effects of heat and radiation.

CN3089

January 29th, 2009, 05:03 PM

To be specific: Bugs can be killed in the blast, however they aren't as easily affected by nuclear radiation as us fleshy mammals, due to their exoskeletons. If you've seen The Animatrix (second renaissance part 2), you'll notice that a sustained nuclear bombardment devastated a robot city but failed to destroy most elements of the robot population - because they were immune to the more harmful effects of heat and radiation.

Well, if you've seen fictional movie, then you would've noticed th :v:

CN, I'm talking about modern nukes. Those nukes used in the 50s were simply firecrackers compared to the ones we have now. If we used the nukes we have now on those cities, they would have been obliterated and completely abandoned.
You don't know anything about nuclear weaponry. http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-eng99.gif