Yoyov2 - We need some help here!

[Inferno]

Even though I've fixed all the errors tool has given me there are still invisible and phantom walls in the map.

This is bad.

We need someone who knows how to remove invisible and phantom collision from the BSP because its a big problem when a invisible wall stops your warthog dead in the middle of the raceway.

I don't know exactly what causes invisible walls but I think its linked to co-planers somehow.

edit-
Apparently the cause of the problem is i forgot to give tool a cookie.

NVM!

[Cortexian]

a invisible wall stops your warthog dead in the middle of the raceway.
Yea... That was p awesome, I was all like rollin along in my hog checkin out the chicks on da beach, den BLAM! I Jus got stop on the ramp!

Wha' up wit dat?

[il Duce Primo]

Fix all your nearly coplanar warnings.

[Inferno]

When I say I fixed all the errors I mean I fixed all the errors.

There are no warnings or errors when I structure the bsp.

[il Duce Primo]

What happens when you export without the portals linked to the frame?

[Inferno]

Extreme epic clipping.

[ShadowSpartan]

Also we all should encourage shadow to make the app ASAP so we can get the map into the next stage of devolpment!
Get on aim and remind him over and over to make the APP! GO GO GO GO GO!

If my aim account gets spammed, -rep for everybody. Ok, maybe just Inferno will get the -rep, among other things. :mad:

I barely have time to work on my current projects, let alone work on an entirely different one. We'll see.

[.Wolf™]

Phantom bsp is something that is impossible to fix..for moment..I believe its tool who creates them,Maybe it has something to do whit how many times you reexport the map from model to Jms..Also if you rerun the scenario structure command..it wont be there anymore..more likly it will be somewhere else.I think..Dont remember:P

[Choking Victim]

If my aim account gets spammed, -rep for everybody. Ok, maybe just Inferno will get the -rep, among other things. :mad:

I barely have time to work on my current projects, let alone work on an entirely different one. We'll see.
First, you shouldn't have even told him the idea. Second, I don't even know if it would work. None of us really know if ghost faces are actually stored in the collision. People have been dealing with ghost faces since the start of CE, look into what they've tried to do to fix it instead of crying to someone who's already doing something to make an app for it. It's a waste of time, and I strongly encourage you not to do it shadow. I never should have proposed the idea to begin with.

[Inferno]

People have been dealing with ghost faces since the start of CE, look into what they've tried to do to fix it instead of crying to someone who's already doing something to make an app for it.

That's what this thread was created for.

[Choking Victim]

That's what this thread was created for.
Good, so continue doing so. You don't need Shadow to make a program for you.

[Inferno]

So what DO I need exactly. Ive done everything I know how to do to fix this and these things keep popping up. The only other way to fix them is to move around the vertices randomly and hope it gets rid of them which would take forever so I'm not to excited to do that.

[Choking Victim]

So what DO I need exactly. Ive done everything I know how to do to fix this and these things keep popping up. The only other way to fix them is to move around the vertices randomly and hope it gets rid of them which would take forever so I'm not to excited to do that.
Search gearbox for phantom faces/ghost faces, search modacity for phantom faces/ghost faces. Anything you come up with on those sites may or may not help.

[Inferno]

http://www.modacity.net/forums/search.php?searchid=507816
Them be some great search results.

Also all I see on gearbox is the stickied threads. How do I actually view the CE section on gearbox?

[Peterljr888]

Interesting post (http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?p=1067241#post1067241) from GBX



ALL geometry errors causes those faces. Coplanars affect it the most though.

If you know an error that has them that is error-free, move the vertices around a little bit (move one up, move one a bit to the left, move one down a little bit) and it should go away. There was one in the middle of Yoyorast's hog track that prevented you from going up to the top (big problem) that took forever to get rid of.

Same track?

It looks like Ghost (if you can find him) would be a good person to talk to considering he worked on the first version of Yoyorast and has experienced these phantom faces.

[Inferno]

Actually that's exactly how I removed one of them. But it took forever.

I guess I may just have to do that to that for the other 8 billion ghost faces.

[Sever]

The thing is, Yoyo v1 still had plenty of ghost faces. I can easily think of five at the moment that just ruined sniping or fuel-rodding from certain locations, and another that allowed you to mercilessly spawn-camp one side.

[EX12693]

Oh, yes... I think I know the ones you are talking about. Those absolutely ruined at least 30 kills I WOULD HAVE gotten.

[sevlag]

there is also that phantom platform you can land vehicles on (ghost from what i've done w/o trying) close to one spawn. it can be found by trying to jump a ghost from where they spawn in except race (they spawn with hogs) to the beach

its not that far off from I think the 1st or 2nd platform tier, its an interesting phantom face I might add

[CodeBrain]

Interesting post (http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?p=1067241#post1067241) from GBX


Same track?

It looks like Ghost (if you can find him) would be a good person to talk to considering he worked on the first version of Yoyorast and has experienced these phantom faces.


I do hope that you know that TheGhost is the admin running this website/forum, and is "moderately" active.

:<

[TheGhost]

I have plenty of experience with phantom BSP in Yoyorast Island. I once considered writing a script to remove them. There is a method in Sapien which shows the phantom BSP faces. If you can identify them you can remove them from the collision geometry. I never got around to perfecting this. I will try to post more when I get on my computer.

[Inferno]

You could have told me this a while ago. Ive been removing them by guessing where they are and moving the vertices around randomly by 0.01.

[itszutak]

Slightly OT: Do any Bungie-made Halo maps contain phantom faces?

[Sel]

Slightly OT: Do any Bungie-made Halo maps contain phantom faces?

Yes.

[Inferno]

Ive never seen one. Which map?

[Cortexian]

Ive never seen one. Which map?
Danger Canyon comes to mind... When you jump the middle ramps in a vehicle you usually encounter it.

[StankBacon]

and on the cliff, makes sniping gay.

[Sel]

Ive never seen one. Which map?

There's a fucktonne of in just about all of the maps.

Especially icefields danger canyon and bloodgulch.

[p0lar_bear]

There's a fucktonne of in just about all of the maps.

Especially icefields danger canyon and bloodgulch.

Never ran into any in Bloodgulch.

P.S.: DC and ice fields don't count, they were made by Gearbox heh.

[Cortexian]

and on the cliff, makes sniping gay.
I know there's one in the right side tunnel when looking at all three tunnels from the cliff. But I didn't know about any other one?

[Inferno]

Well good new is we've fixed all the bad invis walls and all the clipping errors (besides the little clipping left on the mongoose base and sniper tower)

And now I'm using my 1337 jump skills to find every little shortcut in the map. So far I've got some 5 or 6 shortcuts to fix.

[Sever]

Let me in on that, if you and Yohan don't mind - I found tons of jumps and falls on YIv1 that could be used to get around the map, varying in ranges of effectiveness, like falling from the low CTF/Race spawn to the warthog path below, jumping from the 'tongue' to the pistol/hp/plasma grenade spawn, all of the ridge walking that you could do to get further ahead towards the flag, etc. and don't get me started on grenade jumping! Yohan also said a long time back that he'd let me take a look at potential weapons placements and give him a few pointers. It's up to him if he still wants my input in it.

[Inferno]

Yeah I could use some help with this. I already found 2 major jumps along with like 6 minor ones.

[XxXsM0k3w33d4LyPh3420XxX]

so there will be a phantom in yoyo v2? why?

[Rook]

so there will be a phantom in yoyo v2? why?
Cool. :fail:

[Inferno]

Cool name bro.

[p0lar_bear]

so there will be a phantom in yoyo v2? why?

No, they were discussing an anomaly that occurs when compiling complex level geometry called "phantom BSP". Invisible, one-sided faces not made by the mapper which will stop vehicles and projectiles, but not players.

A good example of phantom BSP on Yoyorast would be chucking grenades down towards the water from the blue spawn platforms on the garage base; you'll notice the grenade bounce and come to a rest in mid-air (then exploding, of course).

[Sel]

Never ran into any in Bloodgulch.

P.S.: DC and ice fields don't count, they were made by Gearbox heh.

There's a floating one above the middle hill in bg.

[Inferno]

You know what sucks? As soon as I start making some big progress on yoyov2 I get a virus and I'm forced to back up some 45 gigs of files and format my drive for a new copy of XP.

Fucking beautiful.

[NuggetWarmer]

If you need any help finding jumps, I'm always available. It's usually the first thing I do when I get a new map. You'll most likely say no though. :p

EDIT: That sucks. D:

[itszutak]

You know what sucks? As soon as I start making some big progress on yoyov2 I get a virus and I'm forced to back up some 45 gigs of files and format my drive for a new copy of XP.

Fucking beautiful.
Embrace cloud computing.

I do it all the time- might be a bit of a security problem, and definitely painful to re-download, but saves me the worry if I have to wipe my hard drive.

[Inferno]

Alright I'm now on a brand spanking new copy of XP. I'm currently reinstalling all my applications and drivers and what not.

Whats cloud computing?

[sevlag]

I know one thing that could be changed for yoyov2 if possible in v1 if you backed a ghost up close to the part where'd you'd have to walk and jump down...well lets say that having the back end of the ghost hanging off the edge allows you to grab the flag, jump up, nudge the ghost allitle and then drive it, carrying the flag with you to easily score

[Sever]

Yeah, you haven't been keeping up with YIv2 at all...
That flaw has been long ago fixed, as well as about anything else you could suggest. Leave the level design to the designers.

[itszutak]

Alright I'm now on a brand spanking new copy of XP. I'm currently reinstalling all my applications and drivers and what not.

Whats cloud computing?
Backing up your files online. I usually email myself small files and use file hosting services to back up larger files. All my games are on Steam or CD, so I don't back those up (except for saved games)

[Inferno]

I have 4 hard drives. 2 mounted internal Sata, 1 unmounted internal (by which I mean it is sitting in slot where a cd drive SHOULD go) Ata drive and, 1 external USB/firewire drive.

Why not back everything up to there and save myself the time of uploading and downloading?

[n00b1n8R]

YOU NEED TO BACK UP MORE :snaf:

[itszutak]

I have 4 hard drives. 2 mounted internal Sata, 1 unmounted internal (by which I mean it is sitting in slot where a cd drive SHOULD go) Ata drive and, 1 external USB/firewire drive.

Why not back everything up to there and save myself the time of uploading and downloading?
If something goes wrong locally, you still have a copy nowhere near your house that is guaranteed to work.

[Inferno]

True. But if a fire or tornado or a flood or a earthquake or whatever happens first thing I'm going to do is grab my main drive and run for it.

In the case of a electrical problem I'm planning on getting a surge protector.

[Inferno]

Sorry for the double post but my computer is back to normal finally. Most everything is reinstalled or back on my XP drive.

So those wanting to help with shortcuting on V2 contact me on AIM (infernoxpyro) or Xfire (wankzta)

[Limited]

Let me in on that, if you and Yohan don't mind - I found tons of jumps and falls on YIv1 that could be used to get around the map, varying in ranges of effectiveness, like falling from the low CTF/Race spawn to the warthog path below, jumping from the 'tongue' to the pistol/hp/plasma grenade spawn, all of the ridge walking that you could do to get further ahead towards the flag, etc. and don't get me started on grenade jumping! Yohan also said a long time back that he'd let me take a look at potential weapons placements and give him a few pointers. It's up to him if he still wants my input in it.
Ahh good times Sever good times.

Has vehicle stacking been looked into/tested?

[StankBacon]

pfft, im the king of yoyo shortcuts.

[Sever]

Yes you are, bacon, yes you are.

[Heathen]

I was asked to beta but :/
I declined.

Dont have CE on this machine.

[TheGhost]

Someone just needs to write a program which strips the structure BSP of the phantom collision geometries. That can't be too hard... can it?

Do any Bungie maps have collision problems, or just the Gearbox ones? Makes you wonder...

[Limited]

How are phantom collisions detected?

[TheGhost]

They have various properties and also no corresponding render geometry.

[NuggetWarmer]

I was asked to beta but :/
I declined.

Dont have CE on this machine.

You missed a lot of fun. :(

[ShadowSpartan]

Someone just needs to write a program which strips the structure BSP of the phantom collision geometries. That can't be too hard... can it?
Well, do you know how they are created in the collision bsp?

I have written a program to extract the collision bsp vertices, and attempt to recreate the faces (I currently have no 100% working method of creating collision faces). In that extracted model, I don't see any of the phantom faces. Though that is probably due to the fact that the faces the program creates are not 100% correct.

Have you been able to successfully create faces for a collision model?

[Heathen]

You missed a lot of fun. :(
Partly because I have lost track of what game version everyone has... :(

[Joshflighter]

You missed a lot of fun. :(

Nah, the only real thing you missed was them betraying people on the same team. :(

[Disaster]

And me killing you :-3

[TheGhost]

Well I'm not entirely sure. Has anyone tried straight up making collision geometry without render geometry, and render geometry without collision geometry, and verifying the results through the tags? If I were still handy I would take a look and try to whip up some code, but alas I don't even have the HEK installed.

[Inferno]

I've found a method to fix almost all phantom geometry. I've made a video but I don't have a place to upload atm. I have a FTP but I lost the login info when I formatted recently.

Can someone try and contact BrandiniMP and tell him to send me the login info?

[StankBacon]

youtube.. filefront...

[ShadowSpartan]

Well I'm not entirely sure. Has anyone tried straight up making collision geometry without render geometry, and render geometry without collision geometry, and verifying the results through the tags?
I don't really understand what you mean. Like create them manually? Or compiling the bsp as both a gbxmodel and model_collision_geometry tag?

[TheGhost]

I'm talking about the shader flags @ and ! and whatnot, and seeing if there's a way to identify collision BSP that was not intended to be there, and simply deleting it from the tag.