Rep Broken :O

[Limited]

Ok, so when I go to User CP, the rep table at the top only displays what type of rep and thread, not who left it or comments.

Just pointing it out.

[CN3089]

I assume it's intentional, to reduce retaliatory negative reps. vhttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-shobon.gifv


e: well the comments should still be there

[Heathen]

Well then that's stupid.

[Limited]

Maybe rep giving is broken too, some one wanna +rep me to check?

;)

[Saggy]

Maybe rep giving is broken too, some one wanna +rep me to check?

;)
Hey, I think you're right! I just went to rep you and I got this error:

"Error -03: BEGGERS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS!!"

Weird...

JK <3

[Limited]

Lol bastard :D

[teh lag]

That's intentional. We're going to be making some changes to the way Rep works in the coming days/weeks/admins-not-lazy times.

[Sel]

thats dumb

its not broken dont fix it

[rossmum]

thats dumb

its not broken dont fix it
at the very least leave the comments

if purely retaliatory or genuinely abusive rep is such a problem then the recipients can complain about it and you can look into it then, don't penalise everyone because of a few whining retard children

[Timo]

Is there any real point to rep comments though, other than just agreeing or disagreeing with the post?

[rossmum]

Yes, especially if the rep's for something other than that specific post

[n00b1n8R]

^
I use it for when I want to reply to a specific post but don't think it's worth taking to PM's.

[p0lar_bear]

Leaving comments on with anon rep would be more trouble than it's worth. I mean, someone could drop some nasty shit into the comment, and then the staff would have to look for who did it since it's not obvious.

[rossmum]

Exactly, but comments are useful.

The rep system is not broken, don't change it. I'm aware this will probably spark a barrage of "UMG BUT U HAVE LOADS OF REP SO OF COURSE U DONT WANT IT CHANGED", but anyone who is seriously that obsessed with little coloured blocks under their name turning from green to red can simply turn it off. If you don't like the rep system, then you can disable your rep, and you can refrain from giving or taking it as well (doing so while your own is disabled is against the rules, by the way). If someone sends you a rep comment that genuinely offends you, talk to an admin (crying about rep on the forums is also against the rules, with good reason). If you give out -rep with nasty comments or for petty reasons, then expect to get the same thing back. If you have a genuine and well-supported reason to do so and you still get abusive rep back, then consider it a sign you've metaphorically kicked the offending repper in the nuts and they're butthurt over it.

There is nothing at all wrong with the rep system. It is on your head to disable it, nobody else's. Nobody gives a damn whether you think it's corrupt or not, because you can exclude yourself from it easily.

[Bodzilla]

thats dumb

its not broken dont fix it
woah.

thats the exact same thing i said in your Sig height thread :O!!

But true words. i like to know who agrees with me and who doesnt, as well as why they dont.

some of the best tips and help i've ever got has been through the rep system.

[SnaFuBAR]

please stop catering to the piss ants.

[p0lar_bear]

Exactly, but comments are useful.

The rep system is not broken, don't change it. I'm aware this will probably spark a barrage of "UMG BUT U HAVE LOADS OF REP SO OF COURSE U DONT WANT IT CHANGED", but anyone who is seriously that obsessed with little coloured blocks under their name turning from green to red can simply turn it off. If you don't like the rep system, then you can disable your rep, and you can refrain from giving or taking it as well (doing so while your own is disabled is against the rules, by the way). If someone sends you a rep comment that genuinely offends you, talk to an admin (crying about rep on the forums is also against the rules, with good reason). If you give out -rep with nasty comments or for petty reasons, then expect to get the same thing back. If you have a genuine and well-supported reason to do so and you still get abusive rep back, then consider it a sign you've metaphorically kicked the offending repper in the nuts and they're butthurt over it.

There is nothing at all wrong with the rep system. It is on your head to disable it, nobody else's. Nobody gives a damn whether you think it's corrupt or not, because you can exclude yourself from it easily.

The Rep system is like Communism: perfect on paper, but leave it to people to fuck it up.

Rather, the system itself works and accurately depicts what people think of a member, but it tends to spark the stupidest fucking drama.

[Bodzilla]

then get rid of it entirely.
This is worse then if we didnt have it all.


It's nifty, it's fun and it's a good gauge of where your at with the community.
But we seem to be doomed to never have nice things.
Fucking crybabys.

Call me old fashioned but i aint one that rolls over and punishes a Group rather then just the individual.
i fucking hate blanket fix's.

[rossmum]

The Rep system is like Communism: perfect on paper, but leave it to people to fuck it up.

Rather, the system itself works and accurately depicts what people think of a member, but it tends to spark the stupidest fucking drama.
Then ban the drama kiddies.

If they can't handle what's provided, then they can get out. The rest of us shouldn't have to be penalised just because appeasement seems to be the favoured method of 'fixing problems' (http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-laugh.gif) around here.

Perhaps this forum wouldn't be in such a bloody sorry state if the rules were properly enforced and ever-whining idiots weren't mollycoddled at our expense.

[Bodzilla]

what we need is a rule that states the mentioning of your ignore list is trolling and deserves an insta ban.
i mean seriously.

As well as commenting on other profiles while yours remain locked.
Thats much worse imo.

Most annoying trolling in the world.

honestly why is that kiddy still here >_<

[rossmum]

That's essentially the same thing as repping while your own is disabled, and that's already a no-no.

[Bodzilla]

BUT BUT CANT YOU SEE THAT I"M CHINESE?
OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A BLATANT CASE OF RACISM!

HOW CAN YOU APPRECIATE A RUSSIAN CIRCUS AND NOT APPRECIATE HOW AWESOME THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS THEY"RE BOTH ETHNIC GROUPS!!1!!1
SAME THING!!!1

Ect ect winge bitch moan troll and fucking ignore.
God dam fucking cry babys make me sick.

you clowns need a mugachino of harden the fuck up.

[rossmum]

Oh but that might not be in the community's best interest!

(nevermind the fact that the actual proper community is the one suffering)

[Bodzilla]

WHAT YOU MEAN THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY INVEST MONEY TIME AND ENERGY INTO THE SITE?

Blasphemy.

[TVTyrant]

Usually I only +rep. And most of my comments are like, "lol", or "bam", or "hell yah". I don't see any reason to change it. Although it was kinda funny, cause I had just gotten a horribly nasty comment just before you changed it xD
Anyways, I like the comments. Their pretty funny sometimes, and let you know what people think of that post.
And how do the bars work anyways? Like, 100 points to get a new bar or something?

[Bodzilla]

yep 100 points per bar, 200 points per bar after the first 5.

after that you dont get any more bars

[TVTyrant]

Dang I only have 4 points until my next bar then...
E: Damn, its 8 :(

[SnaFuBAR]

gee i wonder what's next for the site? everyone is added global ignore so everyone is 100% happy?

[Bodzilla]

just thought i'd leave this here.

rAaWvVFERVA

As relavent as it may be, no autoplay ~Timo

[Timo]

I'll be honest - if it wasn't used to troll or leave abuse comments by some of the older members we wouldn't have a problem. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, because it does.

[n00b1n8R]

A few people bitching and being dicks shouldn't ruin it for the rest of us. :|

[Cortexian]

We need to appoint a strange woman that was lying in a pond distributing swords to become Chief Reputation Administrator.
...
I nominate TeekUp because he's the closest thing we have to a strange woman.
And yea, just because some kids get upset about people leaving "unjustified" comments in their neg reps doesn't mean we should have comments disabled.

HELP HELP, I'M BEING REPRESSED! Do you see them repressing me?!

[SnaFuBAR]

I'll be honest - if it wasn't used to troll or leave abuse comments by some of the older members we wouldn't have a problem. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, because it does.
Don't tell me it doesn't happen with new members and everyone else, because it does. :rolleyes:

You just proved it's newfags crying.

[rossmum]

I'll be honest - if it wasn't used to troll or leave abuse comments by some of the older members we wouldn't have a problem. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, because it does.
yes because new members never ever do so themselves, provoking said older members in the process

no certainly not, never, i never got any nasty -reps from new members for absolutely no reason at all

oh, except for those few times where i did

and by few i mean at least a hundred

e/ may as well make a proper job of protesting this

I love the way that it's automatically assumed that we're the sole cause of the problem. Yes, of course it's us older members trolling through rep. Of course it's not simply us returning what the little shits give us to begin with, or pointing out just how terrible a poster they are. Surely new members are blameless little angels and it is entirely on us to tolerate whatever pigheaded fuckery they want to carry on with, because pity bloody help us if we do otherwise. This place is just as rife with disgusting elitism as it always has been, except now it's been flipped on his head. We used to be given a free reign over the forums to do whatever we liked and the staff would encourage it. Now, we can't even hit back at the cocky little cunts clawing at us any way they can, knowing that their newness to the site will shield them from all but the absolute worst of offenses. Unlike us, they cry blue murder at the first even vaguely hurtful comment pointed their way, and if they see a single red block in their rep history, you can bet your life they'll either post about it or run crying to an admin. Of course, since us horrible, cynical fucks with '06 or '07 reg dates actually have some measure of decency and pride, we take their shit on the chin and won't mention any specific attacks until it's clear they should've been off the site long ago but we have to try and kick your arses into gear because heaven forbid anyone actually enforces some fucking rules in this place. I love how it's supposedly us abusing the rep system when we're not the ones openly and regularly breaking every single rep-related rule listed in the AUP, don't you?

I'm fucking sick of this bullshit. The rules are either not enforced or are enforced on entirely the wrong group, and if it keeps up, this so-called community is likely to start losing a lot of its driving force. There's only so much a person can take, and I've just about reached the end of my tether with this bullshit. Perhaps the same staff who either approved or outright encouraged things like this (http://www.modacity.net/forums/member.php?u=1488) should start taking some proper responsibility and clamping down on the real problems, not the easy targets.

This is fucking pathetic, guys.

[Bodzilla]

but see the problem here Rossypoo is that the community as a whole decided it approved of your input and conduct on the forums, whether it was for humor, intelligence or content, and therefore you have the ability to do more.

if it wasn't for that bastard community thinking you had a clue what you where talking about we wouldnt be in this mess now would we.

E: and there you go fucking up my beloved rhetorical sarcasm with your serious post.
>_<

[rossmum]

Here's a fun fact - I created that alt for the sole purpose of trolling. Jcap told me he didn't want me doing it on my main account and getting banned, and turned a blind eye to the alt. It turned into a social experiment, yes, but it started as a troll account and nothing was done.

Now, the rep system gets butchered because newer members - probably the same scum who -rep us at every opportunity and then scream and wail to the staff the moment they get the same treatment back - had a little cry about our supposed 'abuse'?

Fucking first-order hypocrisy.

[Rosco]

Here's a fun fact - I created that alt for the sole purpose of trolling. Jcap told me he didn't want me doing it on my main account and getting banned, and turned a blind eye to the alt. It turned into a social experiment, yes, but it started as a troll account and nothing was done.


rossmum, in making that account you've just said you wanted to troll, be it sorting out newfags or not, and if the staff would let you, you still aren't justifying why troll reps are ok if you had a new account made only for trolling.. :/

I suppose you could say that's the staffs' fault for letting you do it, but it would of had to have been your choice. hey rossmum remember SuperNova? told me to make that ;p

[Bodzilla]

berkut was used not only as a troll acount rosco but as a faithful test of the websites administration.

Thats what he's talking about.

[Rosco]

but as a faithful test of the websites administration.


So that's the bit that plenty o people didn't know. :) I retract my comment.

[rossmum]

If I'm going to troll at all these days, I do it openly and on this account. Occasionally I'll despatch a troll rep but they're always for a reason (and the sorts of posts anyone else would -rep); however a lot of -reps given by me are simply a response to newer members trying it on with me using rep.

[n00b1n8R]

Wow, you guys seem to think rep is a big deal. >.>

And you'd have to either be lieing through your teeth or just a massive moron to look at these forums regularly and not see oldfag elitism to a greater or lesser degree.
I'm not saying the oldfags are to blame, just that they're just as much of a problem as the newfags (is it that hard to be the bigger man and ignore the whining shits?)

[rossmum]

I don't think rep itself is a big deal, I think the attitude taken by the staff is a big deal. We aren't the sole cause of the problem and on numerous occasions they have instigated the kinds of massive shitfights which almost led to the complete removal of the rep system. We're not blameless, but they're equally - if not more - involved.

[n00b1n8R]

I don't think rep itself is a big deal, I think the attitude taken by the staff is a big deal. We aren't the sole cause of the problem and on numerous occasions they have instigated the kinds of massive shitfights which almost led to the complete removal of the rep system. We're not blameless, but they're equally - if not more - involved.
Ah, bit of a misunderstanding.
I totally agree.

[Timo]

Ok, so maybe i stressed the blame too much on the older members.



I love the way that it's automatically assumed that we're the sole cause of the problem. Yes, of course it's us older members trolling through rep.
I haven't had any complaints from new members trolling,

Of course it's not simply us returning what the little shits give us to begin with, or pointing out just how terrible a poster they are. Surely new members are blameless little angels and it is entirely on us to tolerate whatever pigheaded fuckery they want to carry on with, because pity bloody help us if we do otherwise.
You seem to be under the impression that new members are horrible fucktards that don't deserve to be here. They might not be able to live up to the quality of older members' posting habits, but they're not that bad. I don't know. Maybe I need some rossmum goggles to understand where you're coming from here

This place is just as rife with disgusting elitism as it always has been, except now it's been flipped on his head. We used to be given a free reign over the forums to do whatever we liked and the staff would encourage it. Now, we can't even hit back at the cocky little cunts clawing at us any way they can, knowing that their newness to the site will shield them from all but the absolute worst of offenses.
I don't understand what you mean here. New members have free reign over the forums, and older members are now slammed by staff? I'm confused. What do you want here? You don't want us to be elitist and let everyone get away with trolling but you also don't want us to be lenient on new members getting used to the flow of things around here?


Unlike us, they cry blue murder at the first even vaguely hurtful comment pointed their way, and if they see a single red block in their rep history, you can bet your life they'll either post about it or run crying to an admin.
Of course, since us horrible, cynical fucks with '06 or '07 reg dates actually have some measure of decency and pride, we take their shit on the chin and won't mention any specific attacks until it's clear they should've been off the site long ago but we have to try and kick your arses into gear because heaven forbid anyone actually enforces some fucking rules in this place.
We've been over this - in the meme kids thread (http://modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?p=372702#post372702)

I love how it's supposedly us abusing the rep system when we're not the ones openly and regularly breaking every single rep-related rule listed in the AUP, don't you?
Every single rule? The only one is don't cry about rep. lol. There wouldn't be any crying if people weren't such asses in -rep comments. Compare it to SnaF crit versus Tweek. Be constructive and maybe they wouldn't get annoyed...?

I'm fucking sick of this bullshit. The rules are either not enforced or are enforced on entirely the wrong group, and if it keeps up, this so-called community is likely to start losing a lot of its driving force. There's only so much a person can take, and I've just about reached the end of my tether with this bullshit. Perhaps the same staff who either approved or outright encouraged things like this (http://www.modacity.net/forums/member.php?u=1488) should start taking some proper responsibility and clamping down on the real problems, not the easy targets.
Are you condradicting yourself, or do you think older members are easier to hand out infractions to?
This is fucking pathetic, guys.


:confused2:



e: It's 2am so i'm going to sleep - read your reply in the morning -_-

[rossmum]

I'm not saying every single new member is terrible, I'm saying that the ones that are get away with shit they shouldn't. The rules should be enforced equally, not biased to old members and not biased to new members. The reason you don't hear complaints about them abusing rep is because we don't cry to the first admin we see when a little red box appears.

As for rep rules? Don't give or take when your own is disabled, don't post about it, don't send abuse through it pointlessly... that sounds like more than one rule to me, it sounds rather like three. Do you honestly think I send out "you're a faggot" to new members just for shits and giggles? Occasionally I'll just leave some sarcastic remark because even they could see where they went wrong, but usually it's pretty bloody obvious why the -rep was sent and in several cases it was them who instigated it with their own attempts at rep-borne insults. I'll be constructive when the people in question are.

I don't know if we're easier to hand out infractions to per se, but it seems like it's the preferred option to actually dealing with problems these days.

e/ of course some of the staff probably want to enforce the rules properly but then the rest either don't or they sit on the fence and wait for it to blow over, because there seems to be very little by way of bans or even detentions happening even where they're plainly warranted

[Sel]

Anon -rep is p fun tbh

[CN3089]

I'll be honest - if it wasn't used to tell other people how horrible their posts were by some of the older members we wouldn't have a problem. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, because it does.

this is what i'm getting from this


is this not what the comments were for vhttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/confused.gifv

[Heathen]

Wait...this WAS intentional? But that's incredibly stupid.

If your goal is to get us to stop using the rep system then just ask...

[Joshflighter]

Awww... I used to get suggestions with the rep, in my studio thread. Oh Well. :(

[CN3089]

Well I for one am not going to let this injustice stand http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-argh.gif

[Disaster]

Well I for one am not going to let this injustice stand http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-argh.gif
I'd plus rep you but I can't describe how true you post was.

[Heathen]

bhaha.

Srsly guys, this is a terrible idea.

Rep was fine the way it was....

[Ifafudafi]

Ooh boy, I love these kinds of threads.

A forum-based community is just that: A community. Its standards, its content, its features, and even its rules are defined solely by the members who inhabit it. As in any community, a few of the many will stand out as exceptional, either through their "age," so to speak, or their services to the community. As such, they will be considered a little older, a little wiser, and a little more easily forgiven for being idiots. That's simply human nature, and is perfectly fine... to an extent.

Moderators and Administrators are designed to improve the subtleties of the community behind the scenes, adding to the experience and purging that which does not work (including idiotic posts/threads/users.) However, both must keep in mind that while one of them may have started the community, said community has truly thrived only because of its userbase. The job of mods and admins is not to shape the forum to their own liking, but rather to the liking of the entire userbase. More often than not, what the entire userbase wants is spoken through the aforementioned "elite."

However, catering the forums rules and standards solely to those elite few undermines the central philosophy of a community. Now its standards, content, and eventually rules are no longer defined by the collective whole, but rather the few who have distinguished themselves beyond everybody else. While that seems somewhat logical, what is defined as good for the community is now up to those few. Whiel they may be more accepted and easily forgiven, that does not change the fact that they can and will make mistakes and do things that the community believes is wrong. They are forgiven due to their status because through the aforementioned system, the "elite" are now who defines the rules and standards, and their actions shape the standards rather than everybody else. As such, they can act out, bending community standards temporarily in their favor. This is wrong.

The same applies to new people. Someone's "forum age" is no indicator of their level of innocence. Basically take the previous paragraph and apply in reverse.

In conclusion, fix rep pls.

[Mass]

wtf, mate

Return it to normal; this has just reduced rep to the sole purpose of e-penis measurement. With no comments or sources how is one to know how to improve their posts, or know if they're being given advice by somebody they should listen to or not?

It's useless and confusing now, maybe you could make it so that neg rep is only ever -1 or even nothing, that way people will get the message without being so butthurt.

[mech]

If this was meant to stop rep trollin then it wont do it's job, you can still troll rep but you'll remain anonymous eliminating the posibility of retaliation rep.

Edit: Appears you can't comment reps anymore, heh that'll stop the trollin.

[p0lar_bear]

Love the community reaction.

"GRRRRRRRRRR FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PUT IT BACK DON'T TOUCH MY REP SYSTEM EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL AND I DON'T CARE BUT PUT IT BACK"

P.S. Also, everyone claims that negative rep comments can be used to give protips as to how to improve posting quality, yet the same people turn around and claim that idiots don't read them anyway. So I ask: why bother? This just cuts out the middleman.

[teh lag]

I posted this in the mod section, but I think it deserves to go here for public opinion as well.

I'm not so happy with how the new system is working.

-People can neg without fear of retaliation (in form
-People can get neg'd without knowing why
-People can't explain why the post deserved rep

Rep comments were pretty handy. Yeah they invited some abuse, but this invites it just the same since people can go around negging for no reason and the person doesn't know who or why. If anything, I'd say this invites more abuse, not less.

What I'd ideally like to see is a system slightly modified from the one at Facepunch (is that it? idk) where instead of a single point value, users have a series of values with labels like "funny posts", "helpful posts", "smart posts", "bad posts", etc that are all added up. Instead of choosing to + or - rep a post, you can add one point to the user's value in that category.

The user's total votes (or it could be the percentages, idc) are shown under their avatar where we have rep right now. Individual posts have the number of votes in each category shown at the bottom, under (or over?) the user's signature.

-That allows distinction between people who have high rep because they're helpful and high rep because they're funny
-That lets people see all aspects of a user's posts (funny but stupid, smart and helpful, funny and smart, etc).
-If a person starts off bad and racks up a bunch of "bad" votes, they still have all the other votes to show that they're not totally worthless
-Unlike the current system where users with massive rep levels don't have to worry about getting neg'd, here people always have to think about their "bad post" count
-It removes the ability of top users to instantly bomb someone into the red, since everyone has one vote

Of course, that would require some work on the part of the admins, and we all know how much you guys hate that :v:

[Ifafudafi]

And in doing so, I vote we instantly negate everybody's rep, both good and bad.

That'll be fun.

[Terry]

The better half of the forums that I go to don't show post count or rep. Perhaps we should try that? In many ways I think rep on a forum is a failed concept and leads to alot of stupidity down the line.

[Heathen]

I really don't see what was wrong with it before...
If it was really that terrible before then just kill the whole damn thing.

Its like "Okay guys, the rep system is being abused so instead of getting rid of it we are just gonna shit it up by taking away its functionality so you guys cant abuse it."
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/mmmxiv_/boxxy.png (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/mmmxiv_/boxxy.png)

[Rook]

Posts counts invoke wars too, Hidden-street a forums I visit does not show post counts. And post counts won't even add to your count in the off topic sections.

[Terry]

Heck, it would just be nice to have all members on a somewhat equal standing. It prevents stupid prejudices.

[teh lag]

Just another idea I posted in the mod forums...

What if the amount of + or - rep a person received was proportional to the amount of rep a person currently has?

Ex : A neg only does -1 for someone <100 rep, but for someone with 200 it does -2, 3000 -30, etc. This makes it so high-up people have just as much to lose (proportionally) as do new members. Someone with massive rep right now really has nothing to worry about from a neg, but new members can get blasted into the red by just 1-2 people. This eliminates that problem and makes it so that higher-ups actually have to worry about being stupid.

+Rep would be the inverse - worth more for people with low points and progressively less as they earn more. This rewards new members for getting off to a good start. On the flip side, people with already high reps shouldn't be contantly getting big rewards for doing what they already are.

E : And before anyone goes "BAWW THAT SUKS Y SHUD U PUNISH HIGH RANK MEBRERS BAAAW"

-People only have to worry about the increasing -rep value if they do stupid things.
-Why should people continue to get high rewards for being good members when it's the norm for them?

[Rook]

Just another idea I posted in the mod forums...

What if the amount of + or - rep a person received was proportional to the amount of rep a person currently has?

Ex : A neg only does -1 for someone <100 rep, but for someone with 200 it does -2, 3000 -30, etc. This makes it so high-up people have just as much to lose (proportionally) as do new members. Someone with massive rep right now really has nothing to worry about from a neg, but new members can get blasted into the red by just 1-2 people. This eliminates that problem and makes it so that higher-ups actually have to worry about being stupid.

+Rep would be the inverse - worth more for people with low points and progressively less as they earn more. This rewards new members for getting off to a good start. On the flip side, people with already high reps shouldn't be contantly getting big rewards for doing what they already are.
Sounds like a good idea actually.

[Syuusuke]

How bout each rep we give is a random +rep or -rep of some random value, now we can only blame one thing, the system.

[=sw=warlord]

I fully agree with Teh lag, it looks to me hes thought of a system simular to what the devs of the trueskill system on xbox live tried thinking of, win reward loose punshment, only thing is people with 5+ bars dont need to worry about single negative reps due to having such a mass of +reps.
one slight flaw in the idea though, what if someone made alt account and spammed someone with -reps? with the comment box missing you wouldnt know who it was.

[Heathen]

Sounds like a good idea actually.
I dont like it really because it sort of makes me not want to get more rep now...

What was wrong with it before?

Srs

Muy Confused.

[SnaFuBAR]

Just another idea I posted in the mod forums...

What if the amount of + or - rep a person received was proportional to the amount of rep a person currently has?
It already is, in a way that actually makes sense.

Ex : A neg only does -1 for someone <100 rep, but for someone with 200 it does -2, 3000 -30, etc. This makes it so high-up people have just as much to lose (proportionally) as do new members. Someone with massive rep right now really has nothing to worry about from a neg, but new members can get blasted into the red by just 1-2 people. This eliminates that problem and makes it so that higher-ups actually have to worry about being stupid.
Yeah so newcomers who are moody asshurt wincing babies can do more damage than established, knowledgeable members, that's fucking GREAT!

+Rep would be the inverse - worth more for people with low points and progressively less as they earn more. This rewards new members for getting off to a good start. On the flip side, people with already high reps shouldn't be contantly getting big rewards for doing what they already are.
Hey guys let's do the opposite of known reward systems of psychology! Hey you're doing something right so let's take shit away from you! I'm sorry but this is one of the STUPIDEST ideas I've heard anywhere in a long time.

E : And before anyone goes "BAWW THAT SUKS Y SHUD U PUNISH HIGH RANK MEBRERS BAAAW"

-People only have to worry about the increasing -rep value if they do stupid things.
-Why should people continue to get high rewards for being good members when it's the norm for them?[
Why shouldn't they? They're encouraged to make good, knowledgeable posts. Stupid question.

.

[Mr Buckshot]

Oh, I only noticed after seeing this thread O.O because I don't click on "user cp" often.

Eh, if you did the PM facebook-style, that is clicking on "send a PM to ____" pops out a mini-window that allows you to type your message without having to go to a different page altogether, then the rep system is no longer needed.

Not really a concern imo.



one slight flaw in the idea though, what if someone made alt account and spammed someone with -reps?

I remember someone asked this question back in the days of CMT needing the 30 posts, 30 rep rule. Zeph said, "we would know."

[teh lag]

I don't think you're understanding what my proposal was (or... maybe you are and just hate it that much).

The only thing you lose as your rep goes higher is the number of points you recieve from each +rep. If you're already at a high level, why would you care if you're not getting as much for each post? You've already got a siginificant number of points... I don't see how a reduced point "income" is bad. Furthermore, it applies to everyone - it's not like said "moody asshurt wincing babies" will be able to surpass you or anything. Whether or not they rise at a higher rate is irrelevant to the total number of points, since as they go up their "income" goes down as well.

I also don't get where you're pulling the idea from that the "moody asshurt wincing babies" will do more damage the established members - the change in rep is dependant on the reciever, not the giver. I can understand if your problem is with them being able to do that much damage too a person who has a high amount of rep, but everyone would be able to do that, not just them. Even then, there could just be a restriction (say, until you get 100 points or something) before you're able to give out rep at all, which would prevent them from negging you if they're butthurt from crit or something.

[SnaFuBAR]

So according to your system i can get -43 rep'd because my rep is over 4300?

Fucking ludicrous.

You guys think you're clever, but you're only setting the system up for even more abuse. You guys really seem to shove your heads deeper every month.

[teh lag]

I fail to see how it's ludicrous. You still have a massive amount of rep at the end; it would still take a series of repeated negs to make a significant impact. If you're at the top and do something stupid to invite all of those negs, your overall rep should represent that. The current system doesn't really do that, as even the top members can only do ~-10-15, which is almost nothing from a rep over 2000.

[SnaFuBAR]

uhhhhh if the goonie kids and friends decide to anonymously neg me for nothing other than wanting to be dicks, and i get like 6 -43's for nothing, and they continue this for a week or a month, etc, it adds up. Now not only do i not know why i'm getting neg'd because the rep messages are removed, I can't see who's abusing me, because you all made it easier. Get your head out of your ass. Your idea sucks.

[sdavis117]

Modacity Member with lots of Rep: This map with all the nukes in it and the glitchy scarab and a flyable cruiser is not that much fun.

CE noobs: Yes it is, now we legion of noobs will -rep your ass.

You system opens it up for the new kids to abuse the system and the old guys to take the fall for it.

[SnaFuBAR]

another example: The way you did this model is wrong. your vert placement, tri count etc is pretty much unacceptable for an ingame model.

artist: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE -REP

[Ifafudafi]

Naturally, this still requires names and messages for rep so that abuse can be reported, but otherwise, seems logical to me. The more rep you have, the more you have to lose.

And as for that: If you come across as a pretentious asshole in your crit, people will -rep you. It's perfectly possible to give someone advice without sounding like an ass.

[teh lag]

Well for one, the comments and usernames would be put back in. I don't like that they were removed - I was proposing an alternative to removing them. If nothing else, we should have the old system back.

Also, if there's a point threshold before which you can't rep, then the terrifying legions of CE noobs won't be able to neg rep you in the first place. A person who's stupid enough to want to neg you for giving them crit wouldn't be able to.

I understand your (snaf and spartan)'s point though. I think it can be avoided, but I won't keep pressing this. I just wanted to put an idea out here.

[p0lar_bear]

The way I see it, there's always going to be issues as long as there are conflicting views. There is no cure-all.

[thehoodedsmack]

Comments and names are back.

[Mr Buckshot]

Lots of forums don't have a rep system and it's still easy to tell who's good, who's bad, etc. I recall that some guys back on CMT Haloimpulse forums improved themselves without the presence of a rep system.

quit yet bitchin' guys, it's just rep.

Oh yeah there's always the profile visitor messages nowadays for when you really gotta give someone a piece of your mind without going to a PM. No guys, mine isn't locked, anyone on my friends list can post in my profile visitor messages - add me if you feel like posting there.

Say, anyone want to implement the PM thing such that a little window similar to the rep window pops down rather than redirect you to a new page specifically for PMs? vBulletin is damn sophisticated, it could be possible.

[SnaFuBAR]

I think the PM window is a good idea, actually.

[Heathen]

Hey, you fixed it yay.

[Bodzilla]

good job fellas <3

[SnaFuBAR]

thank you for returning rep to it's correct state. I'm sure many many others on the forum appreciate it as well.

[CN3089]

+rep admins :v:

[Sel]

o reaper ur funny

[Bodzilla]

Naturally, this still requires names and messages for rep so that abuse can be reported, but otherwise, seems logical to me. The more rep you have, the more you have to lose.

And as for that: If you come across as a pretentious asshole in your crit, people will -rep you. It's perfectly possible to give someone advice without sounding like an ass.
but thats the thing.

in order to maintain at the level you dont have to just be good, but you have to be unseen, never ingage in debates and conflicts and have a few mates on the side circling you rep.

if you can only receive 1 point for a positive and 20 for a negative then it just a matter of time before some of the butt-hurt pee wees join together and in less then a week take out hundreds and hundreds of rep.
and considering how long it would take to get there from such little amounts of positive......

it's a far worse abuse of the system because it makes older members too much of a target. while the newbies will remain virtuall untouched.
It's one of those things that would work on paper as long as everybody is infallible and no one ever got butt hurt.

[Mr Buckshot]

Oh, so it got fixed. Never mind then.

[teh lag]

Yeah, just forget I suggested that system. The more I think about it the more I think you're right. I didn't really consider the case of people -repping during a debate or argument (since I assumed that the only unjustified -reps would be coming from people who would already be below the rep threshold)... and I also didn't think about how hard it would be to recover from a neg attack. There could be some series of systems to compensate for that but then it's really getting too complicated to be of any use and we'd just be better off with the original system. The other staff seemed really set on changing the system though, and I felt I might as well propose some alternatives.

...You can ignore me now, I'm just getting defensive and trying to rationalize why I'm still a good person after having a bad idea :p

[supersniper]

Maybe rep giving is broken too, some one wanna +rep me to check?

;)
i fell for your evil trap ;)

[Limited]

Well, what an experience the last 6 pages has been, all I wanted to know was if it was just broken on my side :P

Glad comments are back, I always leave a comment about the rep I give.

Now names are back, I saw who -repped me :( lol.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2020/reppo.png

</3

[Mr Buckshot]

Yeah, just forget I suggested that system. The more I think about it the more I think you're right. I didn't really consider the case of people -repping during a debate or argument (since I assumed that the only unjustified -reps would be coming from people who would already be below the rep threshold)... and I also didn't think about how hard it would be to recover from a neg attack. There could be some series of systems to compensate for that but then it's really getting too complicated to be of any use and we'd just be better off with the original system. The other staff seemed really set on changing the system though, and I felt I might as well propose some alternatives.

...You can ignore me now, I'm just getting defensive and trying to rationalize why I'm still a good person after having a bad idea :p

it's k, that's officially the past which can be put behind us.

[rossmum]

Thanks for fixing it, just a few points to make anyway:


What I'd ideally like to see is a system slightly modified from the one at Facepunch (is that it? idk) where instead of a single point value, users have a series of values with labels like "funny posts", "helpful posts", "smart posts", "bad posts", etc that are all added up. Instead of choosing to + or - rep a post, you can add one point to the user's value in that category
While this is a good idea in theory, Garry ended up removing virtually all the ratings bar ones directly appropriate for the section of the forums a post was made in (gold stars in mapping, artistics in screenshots and poses) because it resulted in a great many people trawling for funnies. Imagine Emmzee, multiplied by about a thousand - that's what it was like until the system was changed.


The better half of the forums that I go to don't show post count or rep. Perhaps we should try that? In many ways I think rep on a forum is a failed concept and leads to alot of stupidity down the line.

Heck, it would just be nice to have all members on a somewhat equal standing. It prevents stupid prejudices.
Anything and everything can be taken away and there'll be little or no change. Some of the new members (the ones inclined to being obnoxious) will still view the older members as elitist pricks, and the older members will still look on newer members with suspicion until they can prove they're not here to cause trouble. If you axe rep and postcounts, it'll go to reg date just like a lot of other forums. If you axe that, it'll go to friends, by which point there's nothing much you can do without utterly ruining the forums.


another example: The way you did this model is wrong. your vert placement, tri count etc is pretty much unacceptable for an ingame model.

artist: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE -REP
I've got more than one of these in the past, and if it was to happen now, I'd be down 33 points a time using the proposed system. Glad to see you reconsidered. :)

[Mr Buckshot]

about rep, I noticed rep can still be given/taken by someone who disabled it even though it's against the rules.

Maybe it's time to just code it in such a way that you're actually blocked by the system from giving/taking rep as long as rep is disabled? And that you can't receive any whether positive or negative as long as it is disabled?

[SnaFuBAR]

maybe a system of differentiation between hiding and disabling rep needs to be installed.

[n00b1n8R]

Alternativly, people who've disabled rep could just stop caring about it (that is why you did it right? :raise:)

[SnaFuBAR]

No, some people turn it off because they're in the red and don't want to show it.

o wait, rhetorical question amirite?

[Bodzilla]

maybe a system of differentiation between hiding and disabling rep needs to be installed.
no hiding.

You either man the fuck up and run with the the big boys or you dont at all. this fucking halfway shit is really gay.

[ThePlague]

I wish I could be with the big boys :/ Thanks for bringing the old rep back, now I saw who negative rep'd me. *cough not mech at all* *cough cough*

[Mr Buckshot]

I wish I could be with the big boys :/

you're a fine poster and all it takes is time ;)

As for trolls, we all know the method to dealing with them is pointing our magic wands at them and saying Wingardium Leviosa. If Ron can do it, anyone can.

[t3h m00kz]

Has anyone thought of getting rid of the rep system altogether?

:0

Really though, I'm not complaining because I've been bombarded with -rep or anything, I've only received two or three -rep, just a random thought.

[SnaFuBAR]

why get rid of something that ain't a problem?

[n00b1n8R]

Obviously there's a problem, else we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

The reason it's still here is because the vast majority of members still want it here (as it is), plain and simple.

ps: lock dis thread if ur pr0

[Bodzilla]

we want it here because it serves a purpose.

as i said earlier some of the best advice i ever got on these forums where in rep comments.

[SnaFuBAR]

Obviously there's a problem, else we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

The reason it's still here is because the vast majority of members still want it here (as it is), plain and simple.

ps: lock dis thread if ur pr0
You mean it's a minor problem for a few members blown completely out of proportion by them?

yeah.

[n00b1n8R]

Yeah, p much.
Still a problem big enough to get 8 pages of heated argument debate in only a day though.

[Bodzilla]

Basically, kinda a big deal.

[SnaFuBAR]

Yeah, p much.
Still a problem big enough to get 8 pages of heated argument debate in only a day though.
The big problem was the changes made to the rep. It was more of a problem than the blown out of proportion minority problem. That should tell you how big the actual "rep problem" is.

[Bodzilla]

that, and

We dont negotiate with terrorists. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

[TVTyrant]

Sounds like something I'd say Nice joke dude.
Who was bitching about rep anyways? I didn't hear anything like that.

[Sel]

GUYS I GOT -REP REMOVE THE REP SYSTEM

[rossmum]

trole about it

actually don't, don't trole

[TheGhost]

It seems people really like their rep...

[rossmum]

or their not being wrongly blamed for things

but yeah rep's coo

have some, share in the love

[FRain]

Think of lag's idea like a whole bunch of chair stacked up and you standing on the top. If people start removing chairs, then you have a greater chance of falling off and dying. Say you get taken two chairs away and you have 40 chairs stacked. You will lose your balance and possibly fall off (higher rep means more damage) but if you have less chairs, you can fall off and not hurt yourself and get back up (less rep, less -rep points). That's why lag's idea is good, to me at least. I'm sure my opinion can be argued.

[teh lag]

Think of lag's idea like a whole bunch of chair stacked up and you standing on the top. If people start removing chairs, then you have a greater chance of falling off and dying. Say you get taken two chairs away and you have 40 chairs stacked. You will lose your balance and possibly fall off (higher rep means more damage) but if you have less chairs, you can fall off and not hurt yourself and get back up (less rep, less -rep points). That's why lag's idea is good, to me at least. I'm sure my opinion can be argued.

Yeah, that was my thinking as well. It makes sense if you consider an ideal and well-behaved set of users, but as Snaf & co pointed out, the more you look into it the more problems there are. I suppose one of my flaws is I put too much faith in newbies to not be asses and have too little faith in everyone else being good.

You can't assume that everyone who would be enough of an immature douche to neg people for honest remarks would be below the rep giving threshold (or that you would be able to come up with a set of criteria to prevent that that make any sense at all). That problem becomes even harder to manage when the low-rep people get high points from a +; sure it encourages them to do more good things, but it also means it's significantly harder for them to deservedly go below the threshold when their buddies can just + them up all the time and negs can't compensate. And since there's no (practical) way to monitor undeserved +rep, that would pretty much run rampant.

You also have to consider how hard it would be for someone to recover from undeserved reps if they're really high up. That might be desereved in some cases, but if you get negged by a bunch of people when you really shouldn't be it takes too long to recover. Yeah, if someone royally screws up they deserve to have a lot to lose from that, but the number of times that happens versus the number of times someone's just being a dick makes it not worth it.

It was just something I thought of because all the other staff members wanted to change the system and I didn't like what was implemented. Didn't I say to forget the idea anyway?

[rossmum]

Think of lag's idea like a whole bunch of chair stacked up and you standing on the top. If people start removing chairs, then you have a greater chance of falling off and dying. Say you get taken two chairs away and you have 40 chairs stacked. You will lose your balance and possibly fall off (higher rep means more damage) but if you have less chairs, you can fall off and not hurt yourself and get back up (less rep, less -rep points). That's why lag's idea is good, to me at least. I'm sure my opinion can be argued.
Yeah it's brilliant until some butthurt kid starts slashing away whole blocks at a time!!!

[TheGhost]

What if there was only positive reputation?

[ThePlague]

What if there was only positive reputation?
Than i'd be happy :D No one would whine when someone -rep'd them for something stupid, or just to lash out on them.

[Captain Pakundo]

I don't mind, personally, of getting negative rep, I mean, it's like someone dislikes you, so ok, I can live with that, but it's the comment that killed me.
I found out that the Rep is broken, btw, a couple of days ago.
If there was only positive rep, then, well, I guess we'll all be one step closer to heaven.
But on a serious note, I think that the -rep is a must, but, if misused, something needs to be done.

[teh lag]

I don't think that would be a good idea. The point of rep is it reflects your standing in the community - something which can easily go down and should be reflected. Just because some people get pissy about it doesn't mean it should only be positive. Some people earn low rep and some people earn high rep.

The thing that makes me laugh about so-called rep "abuse" is that nobody bothers to complain about it when "undeserved" +rep is given out. I love how people think it should only be a good thing - it isn't. Rep should represent what people think of you, and those thoughts won't always be good.

[t3h m00kz]

I've personally never really given negative rep tbh. I disagree with someone, I don't -rep them, I try to respect people's opinions as much as possible

[Heathen]

Why are you guys still trying to mess with the rep system?
Its good the way it is.

[SnaFuBAR]

rep is balanced. neg rep is only half your pos repping power. there is NOTHING wrong with this system.

[p0lar_bear]

Honestly, thinking about it, it has nothing to do with people being stupid. What it boils down to is that someone expected X, but got Y instead. I know I get disappointed whenever I do something, and instead of getting the result I expect from it, I get something completely different.

In my opinion, this applies to everyone. Now, a newbie comes in and starts doing things that he did somewhere else. Where he came from, people probably would have agreed with him, laughed at it, etc. Chances are that his actions aren't seen the same way in this community as they are where he came from. So someone tells him to cut the crap. Since he doesn't get the result he expected, he gets angry.

Conversely, a senior member who is very helpful drops in some words of advice and how to do things to someone else who asks for help. Usually, the response is just what the person is looking for, and then the person sends some + as thanks. But, let's say someone else does not agree with this person, be it another community member or the person who asked. Things suddenly aren't going so smooth, and then - rep flies and drama occurs.

The senior members here should know the rules and how to handle situations like this maturely, e.g. letting it go, not making a public debacle out of it. But, I would expect strong reactions from newbies, because most of them may be overly-emotional teenagers who can't be arsed to read the rules. When someone sends them a little wake-up call, they get pissed and lose the ability to think logically (if they ever had that ability), thus they start shitting on the forums, then getting fed up and leaving. Most of the time, they realize what they did wrong and come back to try to change.

So, the way I see it, as long as cultures continue to clash, rep WILL be an issue. To keep drama to a minimum, just follow the rules, even if other people aren't.

e: Furthermore, I still hold firm that there is no such thing as "rep abuse." Rep is ALWAYS deserved, regardless of the situation, because it's what person A thinks of person B at whatever point they send it. However, sending obscene or edgy rep COMMENTS is an entirely different story. If someone starts threatening you or being a jackass in the rep, just talk to the staff. They CAN and WILL look through the rep logs.

[dg]

I think that anonymous reputation is a bad idea.

And I've had my rep disabled forever, so I'm calling no biases. :-o

[t3h m00kz]

rep is balanced. neg rep is only half your pos repping power. there is NOTHING wrong with this system.

Now that's something I didn't know.

And I've been here forever... Christ

[rossmum]

What if there was only positive reputation?
what if every kid could become a rockstar even if they can't sing? what if every girl could become a model even if she's ugly by nearly anyone's standards? what if certified morons and serial killers could get jobs as airliner mechanics????

terrible, terrible idea, sorry


I don't think that would be a good idea. The point of rep is it reflects your standing in the community - something which can easily go down and should be reflected. Just because some people get pissy about it doesn't mean it should only be positive. Some people earn low rep and some people earn high rep.

The thing that makes me laugh about so-called rep "abuse" is that nobody bothers to complain about it when "undeserved" +rep is given out. I love how people think it should only be a good thing - it isn't. Rep should represent what people think of you, and those thoughts won't always be good.
this post is a grate post

[TheGhost]

I mean, I don't want to change the system, but some people misuse the system as it currently stands. The most complaints are of flaming through negative rep, since it's a direct communication between two people and can't be monitored that well by the staff.

[FRain]

There is no such thing as rep "abuse" as much as there is "unecessary" rep. I've had very excellent posts get two or three +reps and some random person (not mentioning any names COUGHXetCOUGH) -reps me with something as ridiculous as "nigger beaf chode" and im like ..... what?

[p0lar_bear]

There is no such thing as rep "abuse" as much as there is "unecessary" rep. I've had very excellent posts get two or three +reps and some random person (not mentioning any names COUGHXetCOUGH) -reps me with something as ridiculous as "nigger beaf chode" and im like ..... what?

If you get something like that in your rep, tell a staff member so they can look it up and act accordingly. Rep may not be public, but comments should still follow general posting rules and guidelines.

[Heathen]

If you get something like that in your rep, tell a staff member so they can look it up and act accordingly. Rep may not be public, but comments should still follow general posting rules and guidelines.
this,

buttt....

Recently I accidentally -repped someone and it was too late to delete once i realized.

[p0lar_bear]

this,

buttt....

Recently I accidentally -repped someone and it was too late to delete once i realized.

Accidents happen, and that's when you PM that user, and/or make up for it later by repping them properly when you get the chance. We're not talking about rep that's "unwarranted" (because there is no such thing), we're talking about someone leaving death threats, racist remarks, porn, etc in rep comments.

[Sel]

How do you leave porn in rep comments loll

[Syuusuke]

How else?

[Ifafudafi]

If someone left good porn in my rep comments I'd +rep them back :-3

[Bodzilla]

i know how hehehe.

[Hunter]

If someone left good porn in my rep comments I'd +rep them back :-3

Hmmmm. :D