Timber Wolf in Halo CE

[millsy]

I was digging through my old halo tags when I came across this interesting little thing, turns out I was working on putting a mech into halo sometime ago. As such, thanks to the magic that is Bluestreak, I was able to redo it. Being a fan of the mechwarrior series, I decided however that before releasing these tags, I would like the community to share their thoughts on how to improve this mech. The skin to the mech is set, unless either someone else offers to skin it better, or I can be bothered to learn how to skin myself. Without further ado, here is a video showing off the mech in Assault on the Control Room. Please excuse the quality of the video, I have a terrible internet connection.

It feels good to mod Halo Custom Edition again after all of these years,

Millsy

P.S. during the video, you might also see another mech. Without revealing too much, its not finished enough to show off.

Youtube Link:

KYmVLSEdYXQ

(Please don't hurt me)

[Sel]

Video is no longer available :/

[Con]

It's sliding around too much like a hog would, It's hard to tell but from what I can see it doesn't look like the missiles home in. The missiles should be toned down in damage as well, because they look like normal rockets, but in MW it's fun to use a combination of weapons to kill enemies. I'm not saying that a volley of them wont kill an elite, but maybe also give them a longer reload time.

[teh lag]

Heh... this really brings me back. I tried to get a mech (specifically, the Daishi) ingame when I was a wee little modder as well - I modeled it from pepakura printout template... I've come a long way from then (now comes the part where I plug the gallery link in my sig).

As much as it is impossible to get a fully functional walking vehicle working, you've done a pretty damn good job so far. I'd suggest somehow working the flashlight function into the mix - perhaps to toggle on/off the machine guns on the Wolf's chin? I had that idea in the aforementioned Daishi project. The same could go for the crouch and/or jump functions.

Also, you gotta record some sounds from Mech3 (they're quite superior to 4 imo with the exception of the PPC and LBX) and stick them on that. Footsteps too - I can't think of how you'd set it up properly right at the moment, but you could probably tie something to the ground velocity function that would work.

As for the weapons - like Con said, tone down the LRMs. This is Halo after all :p. I'd also want to see some work with spawning extra projectiles out of the fire effect rather than just the weapon itself; yeah, that won't give you kill credits in MP, but it'll give you a ton of flexibility and some serious potential to make an accurate weaponset.

It's always nice to see people who know what they're doing show up.


Video is no longer available :/

no

[NullZero]

Nice, god mode turn on.

Reminds me of that robot at the end of Fallout 3 :P

[SMASH]

I like it man, lol. It'd be awesome redoing the campaign with some mechs.

[KiLLa]

Pretty awesome..
buut..I dunno about you guys..but I think it needs a fp/cockpit - ui/camera instead of 3p..just more ofa mech feel, if ya ask me..
And are the controls lika mech? In other words, does the torso aim seperatly from the legs of the mech? (sorta lika tank)
Just my suggestions..

[Cortexian]

I'd love it if:

• It had a better skin.
• It didn't "drive", but actually walked.
• The torso turned all the way around.
• Detailed first person HUD/cockpit.

[p0lar_bear]

• It didn't "drive", but actually walked.

I think only Tiamat has that secret and he's long gone. :|

e: I stand corrected.

[Advancebo]

Wah, I was playing with Tiamat on a POQ Coldsnap server yesterday.
And hes on my xfire.

[L0d3x]

Awesome skating robot

[Con]

Like lancer said, make the turret go all the way around like the tank does.

[Daishi]

That is one of the more epic things I've seen here. Very nice, although as has already been stated, the LRMs need toning down, also, are there lasers in there? I didn't see any...maybe I missed them. Looks pretty nice, the snowy skin fits in AotCT. How much damage can it take? And is there a way to make it walk instead of "warthog" around?

[mech]

Looks cool.

[millsy]

Just a quick question, how do you overlay a 2D bitmap over the HUD? Like with the samus biped where it looked like you were looking out of her helmet.

Thankyou for your kind comments

Millsy

[Heathen]

thats actually modeled right?

The samus thing.

They put it directly in front of the camera for the face.

Because you can actually see that if you devcam into their face if I remember right....

And the only thing I liked about coldsnap was the nirvash.

[p0lar_bear]

Just a quick question, how do you overlay a 2D bitmap over the HUD? Like with the samus biped where it looked like you were looking out of her helmet.

Samus's visor in the Metroid Prime series (as well as the Metroid Prime maps for CE) is fully 3D. Dunno how they did it exactly in Prime, but in CE, the visor is part of the FP arms. The only things not 3D on the CE Prime HUD are the health/shields, missile count, and radar due to limitations of Blam.

But to make a 2D overlay on the HUD, start poking around with the unit_hud_interface tags.

[millsy]

Hmmm, I will see what I can find. Also, does the sliding have anything to do with the vehicle physics?

Update: just figured out how to do the overlay, but it comes out all faded, I'm still trying to figure out a solution, but maybe you guys could help. heres an image:

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6213/haloce10720090408221252.th.jpg (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=haloce10720090408221252.jpg)

Just to answer some of your questions, yes the view will be in first person, its just that third person illustrates the walking animation better. The mech does aim like the tank, as in the torso is seperate from the body. I have slowed down the walking speed, but am still unable to stop the sliding. I have also toned down the weapons and am in the process of adding the machine gun. I am also working on a better skin for the vehicle as well as a more natural walking animation.

Hope that this answers some of your questions,

Millsy

[Con]

Why not go for an actual 3D cockpit?

[Sabre]

Update: just figured out how to do the overlay, but it comes out all faded, I'm still trying to figure out a solution, but maybe you guys could help. heres an image:

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6213/haloce10720090408221252.th.jpg (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=haloce10720090408221252.jpg)

Millsy


Try giving it a mipmap count of 1. Your graphics card may be messing it up.

NinjaEdit: Conscars, I remember you from a bloodgulch server the other night, gave you a good run iirc.

[sevlag]

Why not go for an actual 3D cockpit?he has a point, its a nice job but I think a 3D-esque cockpit would be better/nicer

also, I have a theory, some maps with mythos have their tags correct? why not study those and see if the secret of walking mechs can be revealed?

correct me if my theory is completely wrong har

[millsy]

Update:

Just an update showing off the Timberwolf's new walking animation as well as the new perspective in first person (Cockpit view). Other changes include walking sounds, a machine gun being added to its arsenal and full 360 degree aiming. Please offer any suggestions that you think could improve the mech.

thanks

Millsy

Youtube Link:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wkt5QGohCec&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wkt5QGohCec&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Cortexian]

MUCH better, I'm starting to like this. Get it skinned sexier and work on the walking physics a little bit more though.

[Con]

Is there a way to give the weapons heat, and have those meters show up on the HUD like in the mech games?

[millsy]

MUCH better, I'm starting to like this. Get it skinned sexier and work on the walking physics a little bit more though.

I'm working on a better skin atm, however its still gonna be a little while as I'm still learning how to do it. Would be nice if someone gave me a few pointers :embarrassed:. On the walking physics, its getting there, but I still have no idea how Tiamat did it.


Is there a way to give the weapons heat, and have those meters show up on the HUD like in the mech games?

Yeah, I think so. It'd just be like the plasma rifle right? I'll have a look into it and see what I find.

Thanks,

Millsy

[Rentafence]

Oh wow that's amazing. Infinite rep to you sir. However, is there any way you can have the camera in the cockpit move along with the mech as it tilts up/down/left/right so it doesnt look as shaky?

[SnaFuBAR]

now i feel like modeling a map for mech battles.

[n00b1n8R]

If you can get the weapon heat to show up on the cockpit dash (same way the hog's speed shows up on a meter on the vehicle), that'd be fucking epic.

I'd love to see a mech-wars map. Get some flying shit and tanks and more mechs and i'll jizz in my pants.
I LIKE VEHICLE MAPS

[teh lag]

Wow, this is shaping up nicely. The cockpit makes me go :tehlag:

The walking animation could be a bit smoother - not talking about the "skating" effect here, but more the actual animation itself. I know how hard it is to get walk cycles looking nice, especially for something like a battlemech (and especially when you're limited to a .jmo), but I think you should put more time into that.

As for the weapons - I'd love to see some new effects going for the lasers and rockets. Get some new bitmaps for the laser contrails and make the rockets look more like the Mech3 LRMs.

Physics - please please please tell me that this thing won't get sent flying from being hit with rockets. PLEASE.

Argh... just thought about giving it regionalized damage that could be reflected in the HUD using shader_meters and the region x damage functions until I realized that (A) regions don't sync and (B) you're limited to 4 functions per object which would be better spent anyway...

And seriously, would you care to use my models? I'd love to see them put to actual use :-3

[n00b1n8R]

Laggy has super sexy mech models. Do it!

[bobbysoon]

re:Leg animating, I made some video tuts on using constraints, for a mech's walking forward/backward anim none the less. Maybe they'd help. Basically it's IK setup with helpers and position & orientation constraints, animating using the rig, fine tuning the animation with the curve editor, and collapsing the rig's keyframes to the nodes. The springs part isn't needed, but it could be used to make the guns bounce a little as it walks.
http://hosted.filefront.com/bobbysoon/2363278
videotuts notes:1 rigging the legs.wmv
i modified my IK Limb solver macroscript to set itself up automatically. Yours will be different - when you pick IK Limb Solver from the menu, a dashed line will appear and it will wait for you to pick the target object, which is usually the 2nd parent up. In this example case, the foot's parent's parent is the hip.
the IK Limb Solver does funny things when applied to limbs that are straightened[hip->knee->foot==a line], so pose it if it isn't already[, or try to adjust with the IK's swivel angle. The swivel angle can be wired to a node rotation axis if all else fails]
The steps involved (in this example):
for each foot,
apply a limb IK to the foot (Animation menu -> IK Solvers -> IK Limb Solver)
pick the foot's grandparent, the hip. IK is made, and appears as a 3d crosshair
make a plane about the size of the foot
align (alt-a) it to the foot node or foot's IK (same position - the foot follows the IK). Align x & y position only, leave z at 0
link the IK to the plane
orient the foot node to the plane (anim menu -> constraints -> orientation constraint)[. Check the constraint's "keep initial offset" parameter]
the orient constraint keeps the IK from rotating the foot node, keeping it parralel to the ground
repeat for each foot
the planes will move the feet, and the knees will figure out where they belong (also see "swivel angle" in the IK's properties).
a move-forward animation will be made by creating position keys for the planes and the root node, the pelvis

2 move-front animation.wmv
when making a foot stay in place while the other took a step, the action performed may be unclear.
I held shift while i clicked and copied the foot's stationary position [keyframe] from midpoint to start and also end of that foot's planted position
the time of these 2 planted positions, when each foot touches ground, needs to be filled in in the anim tag in guerilla, btw [for bipeds-idk if it'd help with vehicles]
default curves need to be edited so the anim isn't querky/jerky

3 move-front curve editing.wmv
it self-explanatory, i hope :)

4 springs.wmv
see 3, above

5 collapse trajectories.mvw
im not sure if the position keys are needed or good for the nodes under frame pelvis. Seems logical that only rotation would be needed for the limbs, but I'm not sure, and I failed to take notes with my experimentations
or rotation for frame pelvis

[millsy]

Thanks bobbysoon! those tutorials have been a big help.

Update:

Just a new render showing off an updated walk cycle. I hope that it is an improvement over the previous animations. Unfortunatley, overlays don't take into account the dxdy coordinates, as such the mech has to stay in the same position. Ah well, please comment on how you think it can be improved.

Thanks

Millsy

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iur6Mf7BaBw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iur6Mf7BaBw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Daishi]

I don't know if it's me or not, but the timberwolf always seems to be about to fall backwards when it's mid-stride. These illustrate that pretty accurately. Nice job.

[Hunter]

That is a really nice animation.

[p0lar_bear]

There should be a little tilting while it's on one leg.

[n00b1n8R]

There should be a little tilting while it's on one leg.
^
It looks.. unnatural at the moment.

[teh lag]

You could get more freedom with the animation by having a dummy node be your scene root and having everything you have now linked to it - since .jmo doesn't discard information for child node animation you could have the whole mech actually move.

[Heathen]

it moves too smoothly for step motion.

[bobbysoon]

Thanks bobbysoon! those tutorials have been a big help.

Excellent! I'm not completely useless

suggestions:
copy the arm's last key to the first key after collapsing trajectories to smoothly loop them. Smooth things out for each arm node in the curve editor

it appears to pause mid-stride. When it's actually moving, it'll look like it's skating for a moment, when it's legs are extended. So i think the feet would need linear keys on the x axis (fw/back) while planted, so the planted foot appears planted, moving with the ground

less and maybe reverse the body's up/down motion, and more curve editing

you can re-scale time with the time configuration dialog, opened with the button in the lower right area, where you can also change the speed max plays the animation

[SnaFuBAR]

it doesn't need to tilt, it needs to shift the center of gravity (as in it needs to move the body closer to the foot on the ground when it takes a step).

L2 balance.

[Heathen]

If it tilited it woudl walk like a penguin or a fatgirl.

[bobbysoon]

You could get more freedom with the animation by having a dummy node be your scene root and having everything you have now linked to it - since .jmo doesn't discard information for child node animation you could have the whole mech actually move.


it doesn't need to tilt, it needs to shift the center of gravity (as in it needs to move the body closer to the foot on the ground when it takes a step).

L2 balance.
as long as that animated center of mass node isn't the root node. I tried making the c-gun turret gallop :p, and it wouldn't touch the ground long enough to get going. So you'll need that freedom of animation Lag was talking about.



If it tilited it woudl walk like a penguin or a fatgirl.
Like a biped that climbs any surface? Or the timberwolf as-is? I has idea maybe for fixing that. Picture a giant beach ball with a bowling ball glued to the inside. The weight would keep it upright.
That, with foot and leg suspension would be awsome, if it could be done without screwing up with the other overlays

Since you'll be re-exporting gbx and collision... is that hip node off center like it looks in the vid? I can't tell, the gun is in the way. If it is, the skin modifier's advanced parameters rollout has an 'always deform' checkbox. Uncheck, move the node, and re-check. I is pretty sure that'll work