rossmum
May 31st, 2009, 09:54 AM
wootels rant thread~
We've all seen them. Some of us even know one. They're the kinds of people who complain about anything and everything, not because it affects them in any way, but because it fell on the wrong side of some arbitrary measure of 'right' and 'wrong' which they alone are privy to.
People who think it's honestly fair for violent criminals to sue for injuries they incurred while breaking into someone's home. People who pressure politicians into making things 'safe' for the portion of the population natural selection would usually take care of (the kinds who dive off of cliffs, break their necks on underwater sandbars, and then complain that there weren't any warning signs). People who think X decision in Y historic event was horribly wrong, yet it was fine when it was made by someone else.
What's brought this up? I just watched the first part of this really good German miniseries set during the lead-up and then the event of the Dresden raid. Every time I see a video with even the most tenuous link to Bomber Harris, Winston Churchill, Bomber Command or even the Allied air campaigns of 1943-45, some idiot is whining about it and slinging mud at those ignorant animals who don't join in their little crusade.
The sheer idiocy of people like these really gets up my nose. No amount of solid fact will shut them up and it seems not to have occurred to them at any point in time that these decisions were made in a very different situation. Precisely what, then, gives them the right to slander people like Bomber and Churchill who can no longer defend themselves? What makes them think they're the supreme authority on the matter, even though they or their parents hadn't even been conceived at the time?
Let's look at the facts. At the outbreak of war, all sides were supposed to stick to military targets and did their best to do so for the most part. However, the Luftwaffe had already bombed a civilian populace totally unrelated to the war during the Spanish Civil War (Guernica, for those who don't know), and they proceeded to do the same to Warsaw in Poland and Rotterdam in Holland. The general idea was to break the spirit of the people, thus undermining their will to help the war effort in any way.
During the Battle of Britain, one Dornier 17 taking part in a night raid got lost and jettisoned its bombs live. They just so happened to be over London, which they were forbidden from attacking. It was too late, because the next night the RAF hit back at Berlin and then Hitler made it personal. The Blitz went on well into 1941 by night, and the objective was to destroy London. It failed, but even for years after the war, whole areas of the city lay in ruin or had been hastily repaired.
By 1943 the Allies had complete daytime air superiority over Britain and were more than capable of sending thousands of bombers deep into France, Holland, and Germany. The Luftwaffe was still strong enough to inflict heavy losses, but they could do nothing to slow the airborne onslaught. The Americans bombed military and industrial targets by day, the RAF area-bombed by night. Accurate night bombing was out of the question, so the RAF's raids had more or less the same outcome as the German ones during the Blitz.
Fast-track to 1945. Germany is on its last legs. The Soviets are about to make their final push over the Oder and drive on Berlin. British and American aircraft are flying from bases inside Germany, but the Germans still refuse to surrender. Stalin is beginning to get restless and Churchill is worried about his postwar intentions. By now the RAF is flying by day as well as night; the Luftwaffe is pathetically weak and lacks fuel or experienced pilots. The Americans hit a city by day, and the RAF razes what's left to the ground overnight; in some instances, the Americans then return for a second raid the next morning. Germany's major cities are empty shells. As Bomber Harris put it, "they have sown the wind, so they shall reap the whirlwhind". The RAF's area-bombing of civilian targets was hardly justifiable by any means, but it is a nasty method of warfare they've learned from the Germans. The intent is to cripple the Germans' will to fight on, and bring an end to the war before the country is destroyed entirely. By this late stage, both of these objectives are clearly impossible.
Targets for dual raids are selected to maximise destruction to a city and cripple infrastructure. Cities with old buildings which combust easily, narrow streets, and closely-packed blocks are prime targets. However, the Germans are remarkably fast when it comes to repairing roads and railways. Stalin is still worrying Churchill, and he wants to prove to the Soviets that any hostile activities after the fall of Germany would be a tremendous blunder. He needs an example, much the same as the Americans needed one that August (I could go on for hours about how stupid it is to complain about the atom bombs; millions of lives were saved on both sides, and anyone who disagrees plainly has no understanding of the situation).
Dresden is picked as a target, as it houses a major railway interchange used by troops moving from one front to the other; Stalin requested help from the Allies, so Harris uses this help to show Stalin the might of the RAF. The city is bombed into the stone age and the Americans follow up the next morning. Tens of thousands are killed, and the movement of troops is disrupted for a short time. In this regard, the bombing of Dresden was a pointless waste of lives, both of the German citizens and Allied bomber crews. However, it seems nobody realises just what the intended effect was. Stalin did as he was damn well told when it came to dividing Germany up following the war. Dresden essentially delayed the heating of the Cold War much the same way the atomic bombs did.
No, it's not right to bomb cities outright. Neither side should've done it. You know what, though? Sometimes it's not that black and white, and some pretty shitty things may need to be done to prevent something even worse. That's what people these days don't seem to understand. You can't just roll over and take it whenever someone gets all uppity, because it never does any good. Look at kids who are spoiled and never told off. Look at countries which never receive any more than a slap on the wrist and an angry letter. Look at psychopaths who are released because some fucking action group had a whinge, only to reoffend almost immediately. Look at the kinds of idiots who come crashing in accusing people of this and that when there's no need. One of Facepunch's best artists posted an edited pose he'd made in Gmod on the DoD:S official forums. It was a pose of an SS guy with a pistol standing over a Jewish guy in the ghetto, and from the way the SS man was shadowed really darkly and desaturated compared to the more vivid colouring on the other guy, it was pretty fucking obvious who was the evil one and who was the one he supported. I mean, the guy's half Jewish himself. He got berated by a bunch of kids accusing him of being a Nazi, and then admonished and banned by some random admin and left with no chance to at least defend himself. Want to know something really fucking irritating? Not one of the people who gave him shit was Jewish by any measure. My grandfather was and it's a part of my heritage I'm proud of. We came through the war alright and we're still here. I am sick to absolute fucking death of having these misinformed pussies come barging in and telling everyone what Jews do or don't find offensive, then start on me when I tell them some honest damn truths. I thought the picture was a nicely-made piece of art and a strong reminder of just how evil humans can be. Nope, apparently it was Neo-Nazi propaganda. What would I know about what I should or shouldn't find offensive?
God, it makes me fucking sick.
Feel free to share your own run-ins with these misguided souls, or discuss any of the issues which I raised. I'm a pretty open and fair person but even I have my intolerant moments... ignorance like these people show is what led to many of the world's fuckups in the past and it's small wonder that the place is taking a nosedive as more and more of the general human populace just give up and let people tell them how to think.
We've all seen them. Some of us even know one. They're the kinds of people who complain about anything and everything, not because it affects them in any way, but because it fell on the wrong side of some arbitrary measure of 'right' and 'wrong' which they alone are privy to.
People who think it's honestly fair for violent criminals to sue for injuries they incurred while breaking into someone's home. People who pressure politicians into making things 'safe' for the portion of the population natural selection would usually take care of (the kinds who dive off of cliffs, break their necks on underwater sandbars, and then complain that there weren't any warning signs). People who think X decision in Y historic event was horribly wrong, yet it was fine when it was made by someone else.
What's brought this up? I just watched the first part of this really good German miniseries set during the lead-up and then the event of the Dresden raid. Every time I see a video with even the most tenuous link to Bomber Harris, Winston Churchill, Bomber Command or even the Allied air campaigns of 1943-45, some idiot is whining about it and slinging mud at those ignorant animals who don't join in their little crusade.
The sheer idiocy of people like these really gets up my nose. No amount of solid fact will shut them up and it seems not to have occurred to them at any point in time that these decisions were made in a very different situation. Precisely what, then, gives them the right to slander people like Bomber and Churchill who can no longer defend themselves? What makes them think they're the supreme authority on the matter, even though they or their parents hadn't even been conceived at the time?
Let's look at the facts. At the outbreak of war, all sides were supposed to stick to military targets and did their best to do so for the most part. However, the Luftwaffe had already bombed a civilian populace totally unrelated to the war during the Spanish Civil War (Guernica, for those who don't know), and they proceeded to do the same to Warsaw in Poland and Rotterdam in Holland. The general idea was to break the spirit of the people, thus undermining their will to help the war effort in any way.
During the Battle of Britain, one Dornier 17 taking part in a night raid got lost and jettisoned its bombs live. They just so happened to be over London, which they were forbidden from attacking. It was too late, because the next night the RAF hit back at Berlin and then Hitler made it personal. The Blitz went on well into 1941 by night, and the objective was to destroy London. It failed, but even for years after the war, whole areas of the city lay in ruin or had been hastily repaired.
By 1943 the Allies had complete daytime air superiority over Britain and were more than capable of sending thousands of bombers deep into France, Holland, and Germany. The Luftwaffe was still strong enough to inflict heavy losses, but they could do nothing to slow the airborne onslaught. The Americans bombed military and industrial targets by day, the RAF area-bombed by night. Accurate night bombing was out of the question, so the RAF's raids had more or less the same outcome as the German ones during the Blitz.
Fast-track to 1945. Germany is on its last legs. The Soviets are about to make their final push over the Oder and drive on Berlin. British and American aircraft are flying from bases inside Germany, but the Germans still refuse to surrender. Stalin is beginning to get restless and Churchill is worried about his postwar intentions. By now the RAF is flying by day as well as night; the Luftwaffe is pathetically weak and lacks fuel or experienced pilots. The Americans hit a city by day, and the RAF razes what's left to the ground overnight; in some instances, the Americans then return for a second raid the next morning. Germany's major cities are empty shells. As Bomber Harris put it, "they have sown the wind, so they shall reap the whirlwhind". The RAF's area-bombing of civilian targets was hardly justifiable by any means, but it is a nasty method of warfare they've learned from the Germans. The intent is to cripple the Germans' will to fight on, and bring an end to the war before the country is destroyed entirely. By this late stage, both of these objectives are clearly impossible.
Targets for dual raids are selected to maximise destruction to a city and cripple infrastructure. Cities with old buildings which combust easily, narrow streets, and closely-packed blocks are prime targets. However, the Germans are remarkably fast when it comes to repairing roads and railways. Stalin is still worrying Churchill, and he wants to prove to the Soviets that any hostile activities after the fall of Germany would be a tremendous blunder. He needs an example, much the same as the Americans needed one that August (I could go on for hours about how stupid it is to complain about the atom bombs; millions of lives were saved on both sides, and anyone who disagrees plainly has no understanding of the situation).
Dresden is picked as a target, as it houses a major railway interchange used by troops moving from one front to the other; Stalin requested help from the Allies, so Harris uses this help to show Stalin the might of the RAF. The city is bombed into the stone age and the Americans follow up the next morning. Tens of thousands are killed, and the movement of troops is disrupted for a short time. In this regard, the bombing of Dresden was a pointless waste of lives, both of the German citizens and Allied bomber crews. However, it seems nobody realises just what the intended effect was. Stalin did as he was damn well told when it came to dividing Germany up following the war. Dresden essentially delayed the heating of the Cold War much the same way the atomic bombs did.
No, it's not right to bomb cities outright. Neither side should've done it. You know what, though? Sometimes it's not that black and white, and some pretty shitty things may need to be done to prevent something even worse. That's what people these days don't seem to understand. You can't just roll over and take it whenever someone gets all uppity, because it never does any good. Look at kids who are spoiled and never told off. Look at countries which never receive any more than a slap on the wrist and an angry letter. Look at psychopaths who are released because some fucking action group had a whinge, only to reoffend almost immediately. Look at the kinds of idiots who come crashing in accusing people of this and that when there's no need. One of Facepunch's best artists posted an edited pose he'd made in Gmod on the DoD:S official forums. It was a pose of an SS guy with a pistol standing over a Jewish guy in the ghetto, and from the way the SS man was shadowed really darkly and desaturated compared to the more vivid colouring on the other guy, it was pretty fucking obvious who was the evil one and who was the one he supported. I mean, the guy's half Jewish himself. He got berated by a bunch of kids accusing him of being a Nazi, and then admonished and banned by some random admin and left with no chance to at least defend himself. Want to know something really fucking irritating? Not one of the people who gave him shit was Jewish by any measure. My grandfather was and it's a part of my heritage I'm proud of. We came through the war alright and we're still here. I am sick to absolute fucking death of having these misinformed pussies come barging in and telling everyone what Jews do or don't find offensive, then start on me when I tell them some honest damn truths. I thought the picture was a nicely-made piece of art and a strong reminder of just how evil humans can be. Nope, apparently it was Neo-Nazi propaganda. What would I know about what I should or shouldn't find offensive?
God, it makes me fucking sick.
Feel free to share your own run-ins with these misguided souls, or discuss any of the issues which I raised. I'm a pretty open and fair person but even I have my intolerant moments... ignorance like these people show is what led to many of the world's fuckups in the past and it's small wonder that the place is taking a nosedive as more and more of the general human populace just give up and let people tell them how to think.