H3 Phantom Update!

[CodeBrain]

wRihV_xwAnc

Model - Deehunter, Advancebo & Bungie
Textures - Deehunter, Advancebo & Bungie
Tag Setup - CodeBrain (Me)

Right now the Phantom is a .scenery tag because Sapien complains and won't spawn it if it doesn't have animations, and I deleted all nodes and markers from Halo 3 because most of them were unusable for Halo CE.

I am sure there are other people who I forgot to credit (Such as Detox for Alterations) but none the less, this Phantom is going to be put into Halo CE.

[Inferno]

The plasma is terrible. Make a proper shader for that. Otherwise it looks nice.

[Boba]

fix the actual shader too

hell even do glasshack on it, that would even be an improvement to what is has now

[CodeBrain]

Just so you guys know that was placeholder until I could get the actual texture for the plasma~

Also, CMT used that exact same shader for their c_dropship (hell even the regular one has it as well)

the more you know

[Inferno]

The ship shader looks fine IMO. That's how halo covieshine is supposed to look.

[teh lag]

I disagree. It's dull and washed-out and, in some places, just plain uninteresting. IMO it needs serious work.

http://ui23.gamefaqs.com/886/gfs_63166_2_6.jpg

Granted, H1 can't do bloom, but you can at least aim for something that looks vaguely like that. "Creativity" or "it's what someone else did" is not an excuse for mediocrity.

[CodeBrain]

One thing I cannot do is shaders

got damn to me they are hard to get it looking right

this is why they look dull and bland, mainly because I just can't work out shaders

Need to learn how to actually make and work out shaders <_>

Now if only someone can teach me the finer points of shading...

[n00b1n8R]

I hate it when covey stuff is dull like that, copy the shader from the ghost or something at least so it's shiny.

[Heathen]

I was gonna say it was dull :/

and yeah, why are all CE dropships constantly having the little tube thingy out?

[laghing_rabt]

will it have the same weapon set up as the phantom in h3? I like the h3 phantom beter than the h2 one, its seams more, balenced.

[CodeBrain]

Heathen and Noob, its been established well over that the phantom is dull. Advancebo is going to shader it, since I suck at shadering.

Also, Heathen, that tube thing is there because I havent made the function for it to appear only when crouch is being pressed.

rabt, I will attempt to.

[Pooky]

I dunno about dull, but the palette is definitely too dark. The whole thing just needs to be brighter.

Halo is a brightly colored game, your very dark phantom stands out oddly against the background.

[Spartan094]

Meh. Advance doesn't to good of shaders. I would love to try my hand at it. I have not done any covenant shaders mostly human metal or fabric.

[laghing_rabt]

I don't mind being called a noob since I'm well a where I am, but do you relly have to refer to me as a noob. also I kinda like it dark, it adds a bit of menecing to the thing, halo was made to be so bright and shiny to take advantage of all the capabilitys of the Xbox, also alot of covenent things are dark in halo 2, like all of the level gravemind.

[CodeBrain]

rabt I never called you a noob...

I was talking to n00b1n8R (http://www.modacity.net/forums/member.php?u=222)

[Amit]

rabt I never called you a noob...

I was talking to n00b1n8R (http://www.modacity.net/forums/member.php?u=222)

hahaha

[laghing_rabt]

well I was the last poster, didn't see noobs name, and I'm a noob. my bad.

[Pooky]

I don't mind being called a noob since I'm well a where I am, but do you relly have to refer to me as a noob. also I kinda like it dark, it adds a bit of menecing to the thing, halo was made to be so bright and shiny to take advantage of all the capabilitys of the Xbox, also alot of covenent things are dark in halo 2, like all of the level gravemind.

This isn't Halo 2, it stands out like a sore penis against all the other assets.

[S3anyBoy]

Nice

[Higuy]

Looks extremely dull, most likely becuase of the multi or the reflection part in the shader. Also bloom can be achieved by using a sepreate shader for the lights and add a colored lens flare with around 0.15 spacing.
Also plasma = D:

[SnaFuBAR]

your credits are lol.

this is bungie's work. doesn't matter who you got the model and textures from.

[laghing_rabt]

This isn't Halo 2, it stands out like a sore penis against all the other assets.
well the phantom originated from halo2 the battle riffle, carbine, guass hog,smg, scarab, shadow, etc. are halo 2 but in halo ce. and the spiker, mauler, sparten laser, AA wraith, hornet, mongoose are products of halo 3, so we mix and match so much it doesn;t really matter at this point, also covenent technologies where never supose to meld with the enviorment like the forunner technology, its a basterdized version of it so f course it won't. read up on the art of halo a little and you relize the dark dull colors kind of work out.

[CodeBrain]

your credits are lol.

this is bungie's work. doesn't matter who you got the model and textures from.

If I said otherwise they probably would be asking me "Why am I not in the credit's list?"

Although I am not sure if they would <_>

[SnaFuBAR]

regardless, you shouldn't be crediting people for work that isn't theirs. nobody gives a shit who you got models and textures from, especially when they did nothing to create the product.

thank them for giving you the assets, sure, but crediting them? lmao.

shaders need serious work, too. the gray metal on the underside is very flat and dull, and the rest of it doesn't have the gloss/sheen it should. i wouldn't go to advancebo for shaders, either. his shader work on released covi bus was very bad.

[Pooky]

well the phantom originated from halo2 the battle riffle, carbine, guass hog,smg, scarab, shadow, etc. are halo 2 but in halo ce. and the spiker, mauler, sparten laser, AA wraith, hornet, mongoose are products of halo 3, so we mix and match so much it doesn;t really matter at this point, also covenent technologies where never supose to meld with the enviorment like the forunner technology, its a basterdized version of it so f course it won't. read up on the art of halo a little and you relize the dark dull colors kind of work out.

You obviously don't understand me at all, just quit while you're ahead.

[laghing_rabt]

I understood what you said, you don't understand what bungie was getting at with the covenent style. its suppose to be dark, menecing, alien, insectenoid, and doesn't blend well with the enviorment or remotly complement it. why do you think they made it purple in the first place. the fact that its dark and dull will help push the idea that it doesn't work with the enviorment. its a basterdized version of the forunner teck, and the forrunner tech complements it, so there fore the covenent tech wouldn't. like I said, read "the art of halo".

[kid908]

I understood what you said, you don't understand what bungie was getting at with the covenent style. its suppose to be dark, menecing, alien, insectenoid, and doesn't blend well with the enviorment or remotly complement it. why do you think they made it purple in the first place. the fact that its dark and dull will help push the idea that it doesn't work with the enviorment. its a basterdized version of the forunner teck, and the forrunner tech complements it, so there fore the covenent tech wouldn't. like I said, read "the art of halo".

Dude, your other post can't be comprehend at best, but I'll try to point a few things out.

1. Covie tech is not dull, try playing a few of the halo games. They're quite shiny and reflective.
2. The smooth and natural flow of the covie tech gives it a feel of advancement and more in tune with the environment.
3. Forerunner techs are angled to imply the fact that they're mathematical and ancient in nature.
4. The "new old covie tech" in halo 3 implies the primitive nature of the brutes.
5. Human tech are blocky to go our unadvance race.
6. Human tech and forerunner compliments each other, covie contrast with them.

And you really didn't understand Pooky's post. He's saying halo, unlike doom 3, is quite colorful and not dark at all and the covie stand out alot in halo.

[laghing_rabt]

in the art of halo, human tech is described as industrial and utalitarian, dispine making no attempts to blend with the enviorment it still some how complements it.
also the forunner arcutecture is described as "egmatic, cavernous", and also like the humen tech complements the enviorment
also in the art of halo, bungie describes covenent tech as insectenoid, and alien. and the enviorments on halo certaintly don't seem alien and insectenoid. its bungies words not mine, and its there fucking game. the only reason cov tech in halo was shiny was to capitalise on the xbox's graphics capabilities, remember it was a originally a starter game for the xbox, and not expected to go much further. so the dull colors of that phantom still work with the covenent style.

[SnaFuBAR]

The shine may have shown off the capabilities of the xbox, but it also did something very important, which was to show the compound surfaces of covenant construction, be it weapons, vehicles or architecture. By the very nature of the color palette intended for covenant items, no, the dull colors and lack of shine do not work, it is not esthetically pleasing and the juxtaposition to other covenant equipment is so far away that this piece of work is not justified.

We don't care what the descriptors of human and forerunner architecture are when we are discussing covenant visual style, nor do we care that you can quote from a book. Please stop trying to justify your point of view when you seem to not understand the established visual style.

[Kalub]

How to shiny -- A guide by Kalub.



Open bitmap, ctrl+u, make pink the brighter the shinier, save.

Open shader, apply new MP map, save.

[laghing_rabt]

have you seen teh cov crates in hlo 2, they along with other covenent things (for lack of a better word) have a dull color to it, and from what I've seen in halo reach, may covenent stuff is also dull. also I think it is quite asthetically pleasing and it helps push menceing feeling for the covenent. their alien, they look alien, they sound alien, and the enviorments don't feel the slightest alien. the ultimate goes is to make it look alien, thats the original asthetic style.http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Reach/intel/vehicle/spirit.pnghttp://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Reach/intel/weapons/plasmapistol.png
http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Reach/intel/weapons/needlerifle.png

[teh lag]

You're belaboring an irrelevant point. The phantom the Code Brain posted doesn't look good. Even if you wanted to jump on Reach's trend of making everything dull and gray, that doesn't mean it's okay to have an end result that looks poor. "The original aesthetic style" of the Covenant is definitely NOT about being desaturated and dull.

http://www.bungie.net/images/News/WeeklyUpdate/carbine.jpg - shiny and colorful

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/d/d1/Separatist_Phantom.jpg - shiny and colorful

http://www.supercheats.com/xbox360/guides/halo3/images/phantom.jpg - shiny and colorful

http://halo.neoseeker.com/w/i/halo/f/f8/Phantom.jpg - shiny and colorful

http://halo.bungie.org/misc/sloftus_phantomdropship/images/phantom-doj6.jpg - shiny and colorful

http://i.livescience.com/images/Halo%203_Assembly-04.jpg - shiny and colorful

http://www.donkeybiscuits.com/images/halo3odst_heretic.jpg - shiny and colorful

http://www.talkxbox.com/screenshots/1000/26.jpg - shiny and colorful

[laghing_rabt]

.I never said it looks good, I was just defending using dull shaders. the dull colors add to the menecing alien feelings originally convayed by the covenent. bungie has stated it its trying to go back to the original feeling of alien for the covenent, and thats why they went with dull colors. the problem is its depth, so stop blaming the bad turnout on how shiny it is, the shine isn't that memsmerizing.look at the vidio again and you'll see that its missing depth in the actual model. he's trying to do to much with textures, you guys seem to be miss diagnosing the problem as its shine. the dull colors are fine, and I think look great, but theres no depth. I did't say anything becuse I probably wouldn't beable to do much better. also bungie is makeing things look the way they do in halo reach is to go back to conveying the original feeling of the covenent being alien, and thats why its dull, its menecing and alien.

even my dad and my 11 year old sister ooked at the video and thought it needed depth.

[CodeBrain]

Jesus Christ shut up about the god damn dullness

Honestly it's been 5 day's, have you guys put any thought that it would have been fixed by now?

I am sorry for being like this, but seriously, ENOUGH of the dullness. It's been fixed. End of discussion.

[Inferno]

I like the dull.

Oh wait no. Post some pictures. Have you got he physics working yet. I want to see it in action. Are you going to make the sides come down like in halo 3 so they get out the sides of the ship?

[FRain]

wut

[laghing_rabt]

can't wait to see it, and I like the dull. will the sides come down like in halo 3? that would be awsome, and would it be possible to get the grave lift to work? also would it have the little turrets on the side? I hated the other phantom tag becuase it didn't, and it was shiny.

[Inferno]

and would it be possible to get the grave lift to work? also would it have the little turrets on the side?

Wait. What?
Since when do phantoms pick up dead bodies?

[BobtheGreatII]

Wait. What?
Since when do phantoms pick up dead bodies?

I can't quite tell if you're being serious or not...

But he meant gravity lift.

[Sel]

looks like shit

you suck codebrain.

[laghing_rabt]

it lacks depth, a little change here and there will improve how it looks vastly; especially in that bottom area, the whole area looks like a 2d image. it shouldn't be to hard to fix it. and I need to check my spelling alot more than I already do.

[kid908]

Stop repeating nonsense, he said it's fixed. You're just reinforcing the community's mental image of you as being an illiterate tape recorder.

@Code: When will you update progress? I can give a shot at the shaders if you still need help with it; unlikely since you said it was fix, but offer still stand. I don't have much to do right now.

[laghing_rabt]

how the hell is it nonsense, the bottom looked like a fricken 2-d image, if you can't get that then how could you get off calling me illiterate? if he didn't add detail into the model its still going to look like shit no mater what he does to the shader. adding a little bit of detail inot the bottom would increase its polygon count a little bit, but it would vastly improve its apperence.

[ShadowSpartan]

how the hell is it nonsense, the bottom looked like a fricken 2-d image, if you can't get that then how could you get off calling me illiterate? if he didn't add detail into the model its still going to look like shit no mater what he does to the shader. adding a little bit of detail inot the bottom would increase its polygon count a little bit, but it would vastly improve its apperence.
This is the Halo 1 engine, a 10+ year old engine. Not much younger than yourself based on your posts.

We don't need you coming into threads and telling us stuff about the Halo games that is, for the most part, common knowledge around here. Most of us know the Halo games like the back of our hand.


We don't care what the descriptors of human and forerunner architecture are when we are discussing covenant visual style, nor do we care that you can quote from a book. Please stop trying to justify your point of view when you seem to not understand the established visual style.
Laghing_rabt, read that post by Snaf again. Now read it again. Again. Keep reading it until you have it memorized, and finally realize how idiotic you sound to everyone.

[Hunter]

No, better idea. Get a pin/needle. Now carve Snaf's post onto your arm. You remember it now?

And fyi adding polies to the model would not VASTLY improve the appeariance. Only slightly, if dont right... Tard.

[kid908]

The model is around 4-5k tris. Everything you see in halo 3 is pretty much norm map, which halo 1 have trouble with unless it's environment shaders. 4-5k is more than enough for halo 1 third person models. No, wasted tris is wasted tris. No point to put it in if it's already in the texture. All that is needed is a good shader and it'll look fine. You want to know what the non-sense is? Well it's your inability to read and write when the original poster already 1. told you to drop it, 2. he said it was fixed, and 3. you keep posting about it when it's been over a week of work done already that haven't been shown.

[laghing_rabt]

I understand the god damn visual style, and have been a fan of halo since the xbox came out, and look at the bottom of code brains fucking phantom! its so obviously a 2-d damn image, watch the video again and pay close attention to the detail on the bottom of the phantom, if you can't tell that its 2-D you either need to get your eyes check, or actualy start paying attention to the real world. my 11 year old sister, and my dad both thought it lacked some depth in the model. and for god sakes I'm not talking about which shader looks better, I'm talking about the fucking detail in the fucking phantom, thats why it looks like shit. I'm not even going to go into how obvious the shift in subject was.

E: you know what, why the fuck I'm I even arguing with you tards, if you want to make a shiting phantom be my fucking guest, it looked like shit with the dull shader, and it'll look like shit with a shiny one. yall may be better at modeling, and all that shit, but yall have some serious depth perception issues.

[SnaFuBAR]

Either it's missing bumps/normals or the shaders aren't showing them well/at all. The bottom side is mostly a flat panel, and what should be 3d already is. The only one with perception issues is YOU.

You're getting shot down with every post. I suggest you stop there.

[laghing_rabt]

the bottom isn't a flat pannel
http://ui04.gamefaqs.com/387/gfs_63166_2_11_mid.jpg

see all the bumps, it also needs depth around those lights on the bottom too.

[ShadowSpartan]

the bottom isn't a flat pannel

see all the bumps, it also needs depth around those lights on the bottom too.
That is enough, you need to stop. I suggest you go read my post (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20584&p=519729&viewfull=1#post519729) again, because you seem to have disregarded it completely.

Codebrain has the same exact model that is in that picture, extracted straight from the Halo 3 map files. The reason it does not look as good is because he has not set up proper shaders for it. Also, you have to realize this is the Halo 1 Engine and as I said in my previous post, it is a 10+ year old game engine. I have seen some amazing shader work done by talented individuals in the community, and this video definitely shows a complete lack of skill in doing shaders (no offsense Codebrain, just trying to get my point across). The shaders are bad in the video, and he has said they have since been updated to look better, end of story. You need to stop posting because you clearly have no experience with the Halo 1 Engine, and couldn't do anything better with the model yourself.

[CodeBrain]

That is enough, you need to stop. I suggest you go read my post (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20584&p=519729&viewfull=1#post519729) again, because you seem to have disregarded it completely.

Codebrain has the exact same model that is in that picture, extracted straight from the Halo 3 map files. The reason it does not look as good is because he has not set up proper shaders for it. Also, you have to realize this is the Halo 1 Engine and as I said in my previous post, it is a 10+ year old game engine. I have seen some amazing shader work done by talented individuals in the community, and this video definitely shows a complete lack of skill in doing shaders (no offsense Codebrain, just trying to get my point across). The shaders are bad in the video, and he has said they have since been updated to look better, end of story. You need to stop posting because you clearly have no experience with the Halo 1 Engine, and couldn't do anything better with the model yourself.

Seriously rabt read his posts, he knows his stuff

[SnaFuBAR]

Do you not understand bumps/normals and model detail and the balance you need to have?

You know what? i'm goddam sick of this, rabt, you're talking out of your ass. Next post you make with your oblivious arguments, i am going to infract you.

Stop. Now.

[laghing_rabt]

if its the same model, then how the hell does the one out of halo 3 have, alot more depth to it than the one codebrain did? and as I said before, I've played halo for about 10 years, thats a little less than 2/3rds of my life span, and have seen countless mods on custom edition, I have a pretty good idea of what the engine can do, and it can do a little better than that. the change in detail is quite significant between the to models if you compair. can you explain how it made such a jump, I've never took a model from another game. finally I actually posted, that I couldn't do much better earlier, in fact I'm sure i couldn't even do that good, if you actully read my post rather than read the first line and immediately disregard everything else. though any of that doesn't change the fact that I can tell crap from good.

[ShadowSpartan]

if its the same model, then how the hell does the one out of halo 3 have, alot more depth to it than the one codebrain did?
It is the same model, trust me. I can extract the same thing myself right now.


and as I said before, I've played halo for about 10 years, thats a little less than 2/3rds of my life span, and have seen countless mods on custom edition, I have a pretty good idea of what the engine can do, and it can do a little better than that. the change in detail is quite significant between the to models if you compair.
Did I not say that he was not very knowledgeable with making stuff "look good"? Read my whole post.


can you explain how it made such a jump, I've never took a model from another game.
The Halo 3 engine is a lot newer than the Halo 1 engine, and has a lot more power. Codebrain isn't experienced enough to make it look as good as it could be in the Halo 1 engine.


finally I actually posted, that I couldn't do much better earlier, in fact I'm sure i couldn't even do that good, if you actully read my post rather than read the first line and immediately disregard everything else. though any of that doesn't change the fact that I can tell crap from good.
I have read all of your posts thoroughly, and I can tell that they are crap, far from anything good.

[laghing_rabt]

all I'm saying is I don't thing some work with shaders will improve its look very much especial just making it shiny. and I am aware of how much more powerfull halo 3 is compaired to halo ce, technology grows exponentially just look at the jump from halo 3 to halo reach, but I wouldn't settle for that and just blame in on the power of the engine.

[kid908]

If you don't understand what's being explain, I've provided a visual for you.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2439/normvsnonorm.png

The same goes for bump, but I was using normal map.

Poster's Note: Both models are the exact same one from halo 3. Both models use the exact same shader setup except the bump/normal map setting. Textures used are the same and are by bungie. Models are by bungie. Model only rendered with diffuse and on one, a bump setting.

For when I say inability, I mean it wasn't design for use of normal map on non-evironment bsp models, not that it can't be done.

[laghing_rabt]

thanks for explaining what a normal map was. and as I said several times before, the shader won't make it look to much better, to give it a better feal, it might be a good Idea to give a bit more depth to the model since halo can't do normal maps. changeing the shader won't improve its apperance at all. Infact, making it shiny would just help point out the lack in detail. so halo can't do a normal map, that isn't an excuse to be lazy and not add a little detail into the model.

[Amit]

If you don't understand what's being explain, I've provided a visual for you.

IMAGE

The same goes for bump, but I was using normal map.

Poster's Note: Both models are the exact same one from halo 3. Both models use the exact same shader setup except the bump/normal map setting. Textures used are the same and are by bungie. Models are by bungie. Model only rendered with diffuse and on one, a bump setting.

For when I say inability, I mean it wasn't design for use of normal map on non-evironment bsp models, not that it can't be done.

This is what should have been posted form the start to help him understand. In the video, the bottom of the phantom does look flat...because the proper shaders were not in place at the time. Now they are. Proper shaders make shit look good. End of story.

[laghing_rabt]

ohh pretty pretty shiny shiny. put detail into the model to make up for the lack of a normal map. amit admited it looks flat, and so its shiny, now its more obvious its flat. if yall are so confident in what it looks like now, then get codebrain to post an image, and if that little bit of shader work helped, then I'll admit I'm wrong, beg forgiveness and shut up, but if it still looks like shit then yall will have to shut up.

[SnaFuBAR]

IDK if you model or not, but modeling the detail on the bottom like you're suggesting would raise the poly count beyond what is reasonable. Either cutting into the model and extruding where the details are in the texture would make ugly stretching, or, you would have to make new uv's for the new pieces, further straining the engine.

While I understand what you're saying, this model is already 5k tris. Understand?

[Amit]

The shader does make it look a lot better.

[laghing_rabt]

I'm only suggesting adding detail to where it really needs it. like those little square things on hte bottom, and I guess it does use op quite a bit of polygons to make those nice smooth curves.

[Kalub]

Your stupidity kills me inside; little by little you're killing me.

[laghing_rabt]

good