Arizona State Immigration Bill

[paladin]

(CNN) -- Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed the state's immigration bill into law. It is considered to be among the toughest legislation in the nation.
What does the Arizona law do? (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/immigration.faq/index.html)

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CNN Video of Gov. Brewer signing bill 1070 into law (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/04/23/gov.brewer.full.announcement.cnn?iref=allsearch)

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PHOENIX — Supporters of the nation's toughest crackdown on illegal immigration, on the verge of approval in the Arizona Legislature, say the state law is necessary to help stamp out crime and keep citizens and law enforcement officers safe.


AP, April 4th, 2010 (http://dailyme.com/story/2010041400005444/arizona-crack-hard-illegal-immigrants.html)


Personally, its about time a state has started to enforce immigration laws.

[Bodzilla]

i dont know why theres such an emphasis on this.
honesty i dont.

the Vast majority of illegal immigrants come in ON PLANES legitimately and never leave after their visa has expired.
It's not the borders where they are getting in. it's the airports.

[SiriusTexra]

Sorry bodie I didn't know you lived in Arizona.

[Anton]

Zilla, in the United States thousands of immigrants cross the Mexico-U.S. border. They come across via foot, truck, and as you said, planes. Violence is spilling all into the southwestern United States because of drug trafficking related to immigration. Over 400,000 illegal immigrants are in Arizona alone. (I'll find the article I read over the amount of illegal immigrants and post it here so you all can read too.)

This bill is a problem because it gives the ability for major latino discrimination to run rampant. Its understood that there is a major immigration problem in the United States, but for Arizona to allow such an indirect bill to pass is just beyond me. Yes, I understand that some of the bill's provisions are good, but just the same as the health-care legislation, there are some major factors that raise the red flag.

Many law enforcement agencies in Arizona have decided against questioning 'suspicious' latinos without dash cams mounted on their cruisers. This costs money, and many of these small towns don't have that money. One town has lost a majority of its citizens because of racial profiling surrounding the immigrant ordeal, and many are afraid this bill will cause many more towns to do the same. This means less revenue for these towns. (The article on this is on CNN/Politico).


There are many good proposals on the table at the state, and federal, level that would fix numerous immigration problems. I believe that immigration reform will be the next legislation that will be worked on following passage of the financial reform bill.

Edit:
--I agree completely with Cojafoji.

[Cojafoji]

Totally unconstitutional.

That's literally the only thing I have to say on the subject. I give it exactly 9 months before it's ruled that way by the US SC via a class action.

[paladin]

i dont know why theres such an emphasis on this.
honesty i dont.

the Vast majority of illegal immigrants come in ON PLANES legitimately and never leave after their visa has expired.
It's not the borders where they are getting in. it's the airports.

You are wrong.


Totally unconstitutional.

That's literally the only thing I have to say on the subject. I give it exactly 9 months before it's ruled that way by the US SC via a class action.

Illegal immigrants do not have constitutional rights. So, no.

This law only allows state officers to question ones citizenship upon some other form of criminal activity, much like a secondary traffic violation. For people 16+, to get an Arizona drivers license, you have to prove citizenship. If you are asked, yeah you might be offened, but jsut show them your license. If you have a green card, on the card itself, it says to keep this card on you at all times. If your a child I don't think you have to worry about anything. And if your not a child, dont have a green card, travel visa, or a drivers license, well.... its your responsibility to prove else wise. This bill does not create any new laws, it is just enforcing existing federal and state laws.

[Bodzilla]

Sorry bodie I didn't know you lived in Arizona.
we have the exact same bullshit with BOAT PEOPLE OMFG KILL THEM
!!!
LETS MAKE NEWS REPORTS ABOUT BOAT PEOPLE FOR THE NEXT 6 MONTHS AND GET IMMIGRATION LAWS CHANGED!
meanwhile as a whole everyone's coming in on planes...
This aint the way to cure the problem.

This is just racial profiling with ineffective legislation brought on by pressure from media groups fueling the fires with bullshit biased stories.

[Cojafoji]

Sorry, what?


This law only allows state officers to question ones citizenship upon some other form of criminal activity, much like a secondary traffic violation.
You're wrong. Sorry if that was a little too rude.


Arizona's law orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

The wording in the bill says that an officer can stop someone if they have "reasonable suspicion." That means the police can literally stop and question anyone they want. So that means, if you're an immigrant living down there legally, and you go out for a burrito (whilst leaving your ID and GC at home), and a cop comes up to you and asks you: "YOUR PAPERS, GIVE ZEM TO ME," he can be dragged to jail, from the street, and put in a cell until his identity is verified. If that happens to even ONE US citizen, then it's unconstitutional.

[mech]

Sounds like Jim Crow to me.




The National Employment Law Project pointed out (http://www.nelp.org/page/-/Justice/Costly_in_every_way_022108.pdf) that smaller-scale anti-immigrant ordinances have cost individual localities millions of dollars. The Texas-based Perryman Group calculated that if all unauthorized immigrants were removed from Arizona, the state would lose $26.4 billion in economic activity (http://americansforimmigrationreform.com/files/Impact_of_the_Undocumented_Workforce.pdf#page=69), $11.7 billion in gross state product, and approximately 140,324 jobs.
The Immigration Policy Center noted (http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/newsroom/release/how-much-will-arizonas-immigration-bill-sb1070-cost) that, “with Arizona facing a budget deficit of more than $3 billion (http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/newsroom/release/how-much-will-arizonas-immigration-bill-sb1070-cost),” the new law will “further imperil the state’s economic future.”



:ohdear:

[Dwood]

Jim crow was completely different. We were knowingly and actively holding down our own citizens in that law. This law is to discourage and even prevent illegal immigration. Not voting by legal citizens.

[bravo22]

i dont know why theres such an emphasis on this.
honesty i dont.

the Vast majority of illegal immigrants come in ON PLANES legitimately and never leave after their visa has expired.
It's not the borders where they are getting in. it's the airports.

Australia doesn't have land borders with other countries, hence illegal immigrants only come in on planes or ships. America has land borders with two big countries.

Mexicans do cross the border illegally on a regular basis. There's a reason why the vast majority of the Mexican illegals are clustered in states that border Mexico. It's easier (and a lot cheaper) to hide inside a truck than to get on a plane with forged documents. In fact many of them even come in on foot, since it's not like every centimeter of the border can be watched 24/7. Not all points of entry and exit need to be at the heavily guarded checkpoints.

[ThePlague]

I actually live in Arizona, and take both sides of the argument. Yes, it is racial profiling, but yes they are crossing the borders illegally, which causes a shortage in American jobs. And they are taking money that could be going to legal citizens that need it the most now. It's a good and a bad thing at the same time. In the end, if they arrest all of the illegals, it might make us be spending more money in the end than it would if we left it alone.

[Bodzilla]

Australia doesn't have land borders with other countries, hence illegal immigrants only come in on planes or ships. America has land borders with two big countries.

Mexicans do cross the border illegally on a regular basis. There's a reason why the vast majority of the Mexican illegals are clustered in states that border Mexico. It's easier (and a lot cheaper) to hide inside a truck than to get on a plane with forged documents. In fact many of them even come in on foot, since it's not like every centimeter of the border can be watched 24/7. Not all points of entry and exit need to be at the heavily guarded checkpoints.
you dont need forged documents to get in.

all you need is a visa and when it expires you dont get back on an aeroplane.
simply as that.

[sleepy1212]

Violent tea party protest in Arizona (http://www.floppingaces.net/2010/04/25/violent-pro-illegal-immgration-protest-in-arizona/)

BMNjWz1BCBc

3c6KB_hwzf4

what is this?

"Hit a cop, win a Visa"?

[paladin]

And they say Tea party protesters are 'violent' and 'racists' Look at these tool, throwing shit at cops...0:45, 0:57

the guy at 1:50 has the only sense, trying to get people to stop

[sdavis117]

Their aggression seems more aimed at the guy with the beard. I'd like to know what he did before I jump to conclusions.

[sleepy1212]

Their aggression seems more aimed at the guy with the beard. I'd like to know what he did before I jump to conclusions.

I can't seem to find anything about him, just a bunch of copypasta about him being attacked by the protestors because he was arguing with them. Maybe something will turn up in the next few days.

[DarkHalo003]

Like a lot of things, the bill sounds good without details, but with details it presents an issue. People like to go nuts with stuff they can get away with and discriminating a group of people they claim steal jobs will increase in occurrence exponentially. However, one could also say that there is no need to be worried about discrimination if the person or persons have their LEGAL DOCUMENTATION and CITIZENSHIP of the U.S. It's risky if presented wrong if you think about it.

[Cojafoji]

I think he's taking a stand for the right reason, but back it with the wrong reason.

http://www.kgun9.com/global/story.asp?s=12384209



TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik tells KGUN9 News that SB 1070, Arizona's crackdown on illegal immigration, is a "racist law," and says he has no intention of complying with it. In doing so, Dupnik becomes the first major local law enforcement official to officially rebel against the bill since Governor Jan Brewer signed it into law on Friday.
Dupnik told KGUN9's Steve Nunez that the law is "disgusting" and "unnecessary." Dupnik said his deputies plan to keep on doing what they've always done. He said when illegal immigrants wind up in his custody, his deputies will detain them for federal agents, but will not take them to the county jail.
Dupnik said he realizes that, under the terms of SB 1070, he could get sued for failing to comply with the law. But he indicated that's a risk he's willing to take. Dupnik insisted that federal law supersedes state law.
In an e-mail exchange with KGUN9 News Tuesday afternoon, SB 1070's sponsor, State Senator Russell Pearce sharply criticized Dupnik's position. Pearce wrote, "Illegal is not a race, it is a crime. I guess the 9 Sheriffs who support this bill are racist."
By contrast, Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever now tells KGUN9 that he does plan to comply with SB 1070. But in an interview with KGUN9's Craig Smith on Tuesday morning, Dever also said he does not expect it to have much of an effect on the way his department operates.

[sleepy1212]

Dupnik insisted that federal law supersedes state law

Looks like Dupnik is a democrat, no wonder he doesn't like the bill and won't do his job...sheriff.


Illegal is not a race, it is a crime

This, many times this. Just because Mexico is full of brown people. I guarantee neither Al Sharpton nor Jesse Jackson would be participating in the Arizona protests if Mexico was full of yellow people.

[Dwood]

Dever also said he does not expect it to have much of an effect on the way his department operates.

This, is the real question here- how much will the law actually affect the way the departments operate, if at all? Edit: Also, are all those illegals, by congregating like that, asking to be deported?

Edit x 2:

Some quote I found on the linked blog.



Refer to Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution: Provide for the Common Defense.
Congress failed to act. The POTUS, plural, failed to act for decades.

The Invasion has been under way for some time. A State, Arizona, enacted a Law in accordance with the 10th Amendment of the US Constitution because the Federal Authorities charged with enforcing the Law failed to act for decades. The Current Regime considers the Law to be ‘a problem”?

Is US Sovereignty in jeopardy?

Which Federal Law would you choose to ignore today if given a choice?

Are You proud of the fact that We are allowing Foreign Nationals that have no business being in Arizona to riot and openly challenge Lawful Authority?

Are You concerned that Congress has not acted and the current POTUS cannot find it within his Oath of Office to act?

Now for the Big Question, did 53% of American Voters ask for anarchy in Our Border States?

Should I and the rest of those deployed for GWOT been sent to our Southern Borders instead of the CENTCOM AO?

Just asking.

[Bodzilla]

what kind of Derpalism is that.

i mean honestly.
People that talk in rhetorical questions have questionable credibility.

[paladin]

HAHa, current regime..... US invade itself for regime change

[Rob Oplawar]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6877/42405597.jpg

[Donut]

I actually live in Arizona, and take both sides of the argument. Yes, it is racial profiling, but yes they are crossing the borders illegally, which causes a shortage in American jobs. And they are taking money that could be going to legal citizens that need it the most now. It's a good and a bad thing at the same time. In the end, if they arrest all of the illegals, it might make us be spending more money in the end than it would if we left it alone.
before i say anything, this is just what iv heard from other people, i live in rhode island, and there are no illegal immigrants here. the argument against what you said about american jobs is that illegal immigrants take jobs that american citizens wouldnt want to do anyway, so the "takin our jerbs" argument is null for the most part. again this is just what iv heard, and we dont have an illegal immigration issue where i live so i have no idea if this is ACTUALLY the case. feel free to debunk this argument.

[sleepy1212]

before i say anything, this is just what iv heard from other people, i live in rhode island, and there are no illegal immigrants here. the argument against what you said about american jobs is that illegal immigrants take jobs that american citizens wouldnt want to do anyway, so the "takin our jerbs" argument is null for the most part. again this is just what iv heard, and we dont have an illegal immigration issue where i live so i have no idea if this is ACTUALLY the case. feel free to debunk this argument.

The only jobs Americans won't fill are the ones that pay too little (like below min. wage - companies who hire illegally do this). There are companies who were raided for hiring illegals and afterwards there were lines of citizens wanting the jobs.

Despite what the propaganda says, there are plenty of Americans willing and ready to work at just about any job. There always have been. Many work opportunities have been sent across the border to take advantage of cheap labor. I once lost a job in a Sony plant because my department was sent to Mexico. All this happens while illegals are filling jobs this side of the border.
Or put it this way:
There are roughly 12-20 million (depending on who you ask) illegals in the US most of which are mainly concentrated in about 10 states.
So, 16,000,000/(300,000,000/50)10 = 27% of the population of those states. That's a pretty rough (and high) estimate but the point is, there's a lot of people looking for work.

[SnaFuBAR]

Being from Cali, especially the LA region and having relatives in Arizona, illegal immigration is a problem. The higher the concentration of them, the higher my insurance, the less jobs available (LA being highly Hispanic they give jobs to illegals day in and out). Not only that, the money they earn goes back to Mexico (one of Mexico's biggest incomes is actually from illegals here taking money back) so it's messing up our economy even more. We have had cars burglarized and see illegals casing houses. There's a lot of criminals coming across the border, and no, I'm not applying that as a generality to all incoming illegals.

Calling it racial profiling is also pretty borderline. I see why it can be said it is, but remember, uh, it's a fact that the majority of illegals are Mexican nationals. It's pretty easy to single them out when we frequently have thousands coming across the border. Locally, the Mexican gangs have gotten larger and we've had a big increase in crime.

Yeah, a lot of them come here looking for opportunities, but what about Americans who need work? Like sleepy said, there's a lot of Americans ready and willing to work almost any job. It's not like the money the illegals are making is getting taxed or spent here, so really, we need to take action in the border states. Maybe this is or isn't the right way to go about it, but the least I can hope for is taking real action against a real problem instead of being so lackadaisical like we have been for years and years. I'm not opposed to a real wall (what we have now is just ridiculous), but how do you cover that much territory?? We don't have the manpower to patrol enough land, nor the resources to creating a physical barrier, so what's the next option? Sweep and deport.

I don't think that means ask every Mexican for their papers, but I really do support deporting known illegals, especially the criminals.

[Bodzilla]

you deport them and they'll be back in a week.

guaranteed.

Look at South africa and it's crippling immigration problems, because things your proposing is what they used there and guess what, it doesn't work, It's just a billion dollar black hole.

[Dwood]

Build a wall AND deport them. They're too poor to fly in on planes in the same number. The border states should have a right to use those means.

[TVTyrant]

The wall would take too many resources. And like Lewis Black said "it would take 5 years for congress to decide what color to fucking paint it". We're not going top erect the fucking Iron Curtain between us and Mexico. I think the best thing we can do in this situation is to bring back the minuteman project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Project), but this time keep all the crazies out of it. Use the army reserve/national guard or something, and just have them deploy very lightly. That way, the only real entrances would be at the gates, and no one dies from it.

[Bodzilla]

Build a wall AND deport them. They're too poor to fly in on planes in the same number. The border states should have a right to use those means.
how do you exactly plan on coming up with the money to not only build, but maintain it and have round the clock paid employees watching it?

thats an incredible amount of dosh.

[TVTyrant]

And if we deport all of the illegals, who's going to build it?

[sleepy1212]

And if we deport all of the illegals, who's going to build it?
lol...

Remove the incentive. Make it inhospitable.

If illegals can't get jobs, welfare, and tons of other free shit for breaking our laws and sneaking in here they won't come.
If the penalty for getting caught is severe/enforced they won't come.

[SnaFuBAR]

And if we deport all of the illegals, who's going to build it?

Probably all the Texans and Californians who are sick of them? Could be a purely volunteer force!

[sleepy1212]

Probably all the Texans and Californians who are sick of them? Could be a purely volunteer force!

And they could make up the loss by selling the advertising space to Taco Bell. Head for the border...anyone?

[TVTyrant]

Probably all the Texans and Californians who are sick of them? Could be a purely volunteer force!
IDK bout that. They haven't shown much effort to actually do anything about it yet...

[ICEE]

All volunteers necessary could very well come from texas. The anti-illegal atmosphere is much stronger there from what I hear, and for good reason (also from what I hear). Apparently the illegals there are much more criminally active.

[sleepy1212]

All volunteers necessary could very well come from texas. The anti-illegal atmosphere is much stronger there from what I hear, and for good reason (also from what I hear). Apparently the illegals there are much more criminally active.

The 'official drug highway' from Mexico runs through Nuevo Laredo into Laredo, TX.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Laredo_Metro_Map.jpg/250px-Laredo_Metro_Map.jpg
Laredo/Neuvo Laredo (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Laredo_Metro_Map.jpg/250px-Laredo_Metro_Map.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laredo_%25E2%2580%2593_Nuevo_Laredo_Metropolitan_A rea&usg=__cyuPhnolV5BvJrDhx2lehdW2jqI=&h=251&w=250&sz=17&hl=en&start=17&itbs=1&tbnid=rxn2nRRsmNjUMM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmap%2Blaredo%2Btx%2Bnuevo%2Blaredo%26 hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1)



There's kidnappings in Laredo like every week and the Texans have to go into Nuevo Laredo to get their kids/wives/friends from the Mexican gang members and drug runners. Then there's also gang wars spilling over the border there and regular folks are getting tired of getting shot by Mexicans.

[Cojafoji]

And if we deport all of the illegals, who's going to build it?
We'll make them build it, and then deport them. Forced labor camps anyone?

No but seriously, great idea or best idea?

[SnaFuBAR]

I could see something like that passing with the last administration, honestly, but not now. Making it part of their detainment or something.

[Dwood]

Letting things like this run into our country like we have only makes racism worse.

[paladin]

Your right because only 2/3 of illegal immigrants are Mexicans not 3/4. OUR BAD

[sleepy1212]

Anyone on right now 10:42 EST can listen to Glen Beck read the Bill word for word on the radio.

Listen here (http://www.wpgb.com/mediaplayer/?station=WPGB-FM&action=listenlive&channel_title=)

[paladin]

Heard him this morning on my way to work

[Dwood]

Anyone record that?

[rossmum]

Personally I wouldn't even trust Beck to read something verbatim, but whatever

[Dwood]

Personally I wouldn't even trust Beck to read something verbatim, but whatever

Because he's on Fox News, right? and all right wingers are terrorists right? :ugh: And Fox News is absolutely the worst News station ever because they aren't screaming liberals, right?

[=sw=warlord]

Because he's on Fox News, right? and all right wingers are terrorists right? :ugh: And Fox News is absolutely the worst News station ever because they aren't screaming liberals, right?

No, Because of bullshit like this. (http://crooksandliars.com/2007/08/16/an-embarrassed-fox-news-hits-wikipedia)

[paladin]

Everyone does that... But your right, Id rather watch MSNBC where Kieth Olbermann thinks Nationalsozialismus, most notably brought forth by the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparte, a National Socialist Union, isnt a form of socialism. :ehhh:

FNC might be blatanly bias, but at least a majority of their news* reporting is accurate.

*News, NOT personality commentary.

[=sw=warlord]

Everyone does that... But your right, Id rather watch MSNBC where Kieth Olbermann thinks Nationalsozialismus, most notably brought forth by the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparte, a National Socialist Union, isnt a form of socialism. :ehhh:

FNC might be blatanly bias, but at least a majority of their news* reporting is accurate.

*News, NOT personality commentary.
Wait, everyone "touches up" wikipedia then broadcasts a news story on how their biased and inaccurate?
I quote: " Thanks to some IP-address based research, the political world learned that the FNC was responsible for "touching up" Wikipedia pages, editing content that didn't fit with the partisan network's political agenda."
"With that in mind, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Fox News' Chris Wallace -- you guessed it -- sought to undermine Wikipedia's credibility with a report."

[Dwood]

Wait what? and btw Glenn Beck is on in that FM station. Give him 5 minutes, I dare ya'll. Anyways, the Arizona Immigration law only enforces current federal law lol.

And that site "Crooks and Liars" is about as far gone if not further gone than townhall.com

[paladin]

Wait, everyone "touches up" wikipedia then broadcasts a news story on how their biased and inaccurate?
I quote: " Thanks to some IP-address based research, the political world learned that the FNC was responsible for "touching up" Wikipedia pages, editing content that didn't fit with the partisan network's political agenda."
"With that in mind, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Fox News' Chris Wallace -- you guessed it -- sought to undermine Wikipedia's credibility with a report."

Every News corps fabricates information at some point in time to go along with their agenda, maybe they didnt use wikipedia, but they quote someone out of contexts, edit video, ect... IE. MSNBC editing video of tea party protests over obamacare, to promote and fit their allegations that tea party protesters are rasicts (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/08/18/msnbc-no-mention-black-gun-owner-among-racist-protesters)

yeah, everyone does it. and that guy is a black man...

[sleepy1212]

Let me put it this way:

CNN, MSNBC, CBS:

Interviewee: The AZ bill is a civil rights violation
Interviewer: That's amazing, we concur.
:highfive:

FOX:

Interviewee: The AZ bill is a civil rights violation.
Interviewer: Have you even read the bill?
Interviewee: uuuuuuuuuhhh yes, kinda, maybe....actually, no.
Interviewer: If you had you would know better.

[Dwood]

The bill is not a civil rights violation. If it were then the current Federal law would be a civil rights violation- this law only enforces what is already there. And what's wrong with disagreeing with the other news sources? (warlord)

[=sw=warlord]

And what's wrong with disagreeing with the other news sources? (warlord)
Fox news has proven it self time over time that it cannot be trusted as a reliable true to facts news broadcaster.
The article I referenced show that they are fully willing to edit their sources to prove their point all the way up to fabricating articles to further their political agenda.
The issue I have with fox news is simply this, If such a broadcaster is fully willing to go out of their way to vandalise their sources to further their propaganda how can I personally trust any topics they broadcast?
Yes they may well be accurate in other articles but when you need to go out of your way just to verify their claims that's when simple news turns to satire filtering.
I personally do not want to have to research every article to find if the subject is legitimate or not, I want down to earth facts not some sensationalized story which could easily be obtained by watching some soap opera.

[sleepy1212]

news herpderp Have Fun (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21582)

[paladin]

Fox news has proven it self time over time that it cannot be trusted as a reliable true to facts news broadcaster.
The article I referenced show that they are fully willing to edit their sources to prove their point all the way up to fabricating articles to further their political agenda.
The issue I have with fox news is simply this, If such a broadcaster is fully willing to go out of their way to vandalise their sources to further their propaganda how can I personally trust any topics they broadcast?
Yes they may well be accurate in other articles but when you need to go out of your way just to verify their claims that's when simple news turns to satire filtering.
I personally do not want to have to research every article to find if the subject is legitimate or not, I want down to earth facts not some sensationalized story which could easily be obtained by watching some soap opera.


ARE YOU SERIOUS! Theres a difference between commentary and actual news. Stop citing commentators as your proof of bad news reporting. With that, HAVE YOU YOU EVER WATCH KEITH OLBERMANN, or Ed Schults... or even Chris Hanson.. They are just as bad.

[=sw=warlord]

ARE YOU SERIOUS! Theres a difference between commentary and actual news. Stop citing commentators as your proof of bad news reporting. With that, HAVE YOU YOU EVER WATCH KEITH OLBERMANN, or Ed Schults... or even Chris Hanson.. They are just as bad.

Right, because I was completely and utterly focusing on one particular commentator for my proof wasn't I?
I gave only one example of my point.
I realise those are just as bad so don't think for a moment that I was ignoring them.
Oh and please don't try to justify the fabrication of "news" just because other people do it, thank's.

[Warsaw]

He's not justifying it. You singled out Fox for that reason, and he's saying you shouldn't have because the others do the same thing.

[paladin]

He's not justifying it. You singled out Fox for that reason, and he's saying you shouldn't have because the others do the same thing.
Thank you. also, I meant Chris Matthews not Hanson...

[sleepy1212]

I've been searching for an article but can't seem to find one, caught a bit of a soundbite about Channel 9 News in Atlanta reporting about the demographics of southern border crossers. They claim that thousands of Middle Easterners have are crossing the border each year, that some are actually learning Spanish to mix in with Hispanic migrants. If I can find it i'll edit

E:
Local News Report (http://www.wsbtv.com/2investigates/23434381/detail.html)
Partisan Source (http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=6248)

[paladin]

what the...

[sleepy1212]

More fun on the border!

FOX (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/09/mexico-tensions-heightened-border-patrol-agent-kills-mexican-teen-near-el-paso/)
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/10/texas.border.patrol.shooting/index.html)
Al Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/06/20106923648705384.html)
ahahhahaa "inadvertently wandered"


anyway, Gaza Strip anyone?

[Cojafoji]

Yes because we're really blocking access into Mexico via all land entry and have set up a naval blockade. We also stop all ingoing and outgoing shipments, searching for and removing any weapons we find.

[sleepy1212]

Yes because we're really blocking access into Mexico via all land entry and have set up a naval blockade. We also stop all ingoing and outgoing shipments, searching for and removing any weapons we find.

Goddamn Coja, i was talking about the rock throwing

[Cojafoji]

Goddamn Coja, i was talking about the rock throwing
Well shit man...

Sorry.

[sleepy1212]

np lol, though it would be funny if we boarded a canoe transporting suntan lotion and tequila on the Rio Grande

[paladin]

Ive been saying for years to militarize our borders. Damn Canadians... oh wait, Mexico

[rossmum]

speaking of borders and canada it owns when americans try and cross over carrying and then they somehow think their licence, ccw permit and FREEDOM~~~~ protect them in a sovereign nation

i'm sure this happens a lot with tourists everywhere but apparently it's pretty bad along the canada-us border because everyone just assumes the two are so bro'd out they don't give a fuck about their own laws

[paladin]

I heard that if the US-Canada border was changed from the 49th parallel to the 55th, 90% of Canadan's population would be in the US.

ANNEX CANADA

[rossmum]

dudebro you have it backwards

ANNEX THE NORTHERN US

[Warsaw]

And we would want to annex Canada why again?

[samnwck]

I honestly live in Arizona and to be honest, I have read the bill (like any good taxpayer) and it really just cleans up some of the blurry lines associated with laws with illegal immigration. I don't think it's quite this horrible evil thing that everyone thinks that it is, that said, I'm neither for nor against the bill. Truly, if you're a citizen of these United States, you should have no problem no matter what your skin color. Because honestly, if the cops had to stop every person that looks Mexican, then we'd have to 3 cops for every mile of road in Arizona. And if they're gonna pull you over it's probably going to be for something other than skin color, I have been discriminated against for just the car I drive. An old run down Piece of Shit, 1990 Toyota Camry, and when I drive it I get stopped regularly, not for traffic violations(the cop usually just makes something up and lets me go, it's pretty easy to tell when the cop has nothing to really go on). And I'm definitely white, and I get stopped more than some of my mexican friends and I've only been ticketed once.

[paladin]

And we would want to annex Canada why again?


I heard that if the US-Canada border was changed from the 49th parallel to the 55th, 90% of Canadan's population would be in the US.

ANNEX CANADA
.

[Warsaw]

You missed my point...

[paladin]

You asked why... And I quoted my self saying that 90% of the population lives below a certain parallel. How am I missing it.

[Warsaw]

I'm saying we don't want those people and that's the reason why we haven't annexed it/why they are living there in the first place...ugh.

(For future reference, I do read threads before I post in them)

[sleepy1212]

alright Canada sucks we got it...

[rossmum]

um excuse me canada is a great country,

[paladin]

exactly, annex Canada

[Warsaw]

um excuse me canada is a great country,

:p

So, this immigration thing...

[sleepy1212]

:p

So, this immigration thing...

sure why not

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/20/calderon-criticism-arizona-law-overlooks-mexicos-tough-immigration-policy/

[paladin]

LOLOLOLOL

[Warsaw]

Oh the irony.

Fuck you, Mexico.

[DarkHalo003]

:maddowns:Yeah, apparently people are saying that the US will sue over it. I hate this administration. It has (besides the mediocre job in Afghanistan) done absolutely nothing useful and has/will only further sink the country into debt. RAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGEEEEEE.

Seriously, I thought managing a populace was a state thing? If there are illegals, then their illegalness is unconstitutional (which means they have NO RIGHTS) and basically they should be deported upon discovery. I know Mexico is rough for the poor, but that's the law of this country. I don't care if they think it's their land, it's not now and it won't be for who knows when and basically I'm sick of all of this crap about not treating Illegals like citizens from our sociocratic gov't. It's like they have more rights than WE DO. :maddowns:

[Dwood]

Btw, in order to not be shipped off, and let off the hook as legit workers, they literally fill out tax forms for the IRS- the gvt doesn't care as long as you pay your taxes!

[rossmum]

(besides the mediocre job in Afghanistan)
I do so love when civilians comment on things like this, it's so cute :allears:


Btw, in order to not be shipped off, and let off the hook as legit workers, they literally fill out tax forms for the IRS- the gvt doesn't care as long as you pay your taxes!
That's a bad thing? I mean sure it's better they come in legally, but shit, if they pay taxes and work I don't see that much of a problem. I never found that "GOT DAMN ILLEGALS STEALIN ALL OUR JOBS" talk to be much more than a load of paranoid bullshit, and 90% of the time the ones perpetuating it will happily tell you how all Mexicans should be deported in the same sentence.

On the other hand, if they don't work and don't pay taxes either, then I can see how there would be a problem.

[sleepy1212]

I don't care if they think it's their land, it's not now and it won't be for who knows when

Remember when they took down the Stars & Stripes in FL and CA and put up the mexican flag in it's place? yea, that happened not too long ago...


I do so love when civilians comment on things like this, it's so cute :allears:

I don't think he meant the soldiers, more likely the politicians role in it.



That's a bad thing? I mean sure it's better they come in legally, but shit, if they pay taxes and work I don't see that much of a problem. I never found that "GOT DAMN ILLEGALS STEALIN ALL OUR JOBS" talk to be much more than a load of paranoid bullshit, and 90% of the time the ones perpetuating it will happily tell you how all Mexicans should be deported in the same sentence.

On the other hand, if they don't work and don't pay taxes either, then I can see how there would be a problem.

The IRS thing is bullshit. Their employers can't take out taxes because they'd get caught for hiring illegals. Any illegal who filed would run the risk of being caught. Even if the IRS supposedly looked the other way then why don't weed growers do the same thing?

Here's what they really do: They take any job they can. ANY job, good or bad and send all the money back home .the idea that there are jobs americans won't do is BS, any job taken by an illegal is one less job for a citizen - the only jobs americans won't do are the ones that pay less than the law allows...hmm.

Many legal migrant workers play the system. Most of the ones I've met, worked with, and lived next door to did this (in FL btw). They take under-the-table pay, work 12 or more hours a day for extremely low wages, typically as cooks, cleaning services, and as laborers on construction sites. They pay no taxes on their under-the-table pay, the employers do not officially hire them and therefore do not pay extra comp. insurance or full wages like a legal business would.

The legal migrants then spend as little money as possible for their stay. There were 11 sharing a duplex with me and my roomate in the late 90's. They slept on the floor, cooked their meals on a portable grill outside, and watched a tiny TV (ant -no cable) atop a few scavenged milk crates. They had no furniture, few clothes, and all rode in the same van to work everyday at a local restaurant( where my roommate waited tables). They left at dawn and didn't get back home until the place closed.

After paying their rent they bought appliances. TV,s, microwaves, washing machines, etc... and payed to have them shipped back to mexico. Crazy? nope. because of the mexican economy, goods like those were actually more expensive than they were in the states. What they had leftover they sent back home, usually hidden in an appliance so the law wouldn't know they were sending so much cash across the border (a form of tax evasion). They were very freindly and actually told me all of this. They don't pay taxes and they all used the ER if they got sick. It's not the first time I'd heard it either, nor the last. And they were legals.

[rossmum]

That's the thing - for the most part, they're taking jobs that legally don't exist thanks to minimum wage. Citizens wouldn't be able to follow suit and to be honest I find it unlike there are that many places which will only offer underpaid jobs on the quiet and axe normal ones as a result.

Then again, I know sweet fuck all about normal jobs. Mine only gets safer as things get worse, so I never really paid attention.

[DarkHalo003]

Remember when they took down the Stars & Stripes in FL and CA and put up the mexican flag in it's place? yea, that happened not too long ago...



I don't think he meant the soldiers, more likely the politicians role in it.


This. I support the soldiers and the war. I know they're doing the best they can and are doing an awesome job too. I'm only pissed about the roles of politicians.

Was the first comment sarcasm?

[paladin]

meh, if they're paying legitimate taxes, i don't care if they're here. My beef is the fact that they are here and using social services without paying taxes. We need better work programs that allow more migrant workers, not a better naturalization process.

[sleepy1212]

Was the first comment sarcasm?

kind of, but i was just pointing out that many do claim parts of the US and some are actually trying to take over (or protest in an asshole way) in certain places. hence the flag raising.

Montebello (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montebello_High_School_flag_flipping_incident)
Maywood CA Post Office (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2000822)
Chasewood North, FL (http://www.myusgreencard.com/weblog/immigration/florida-residents-awake-to-find-mexican-flag-flying-instead/)

[Dwood]

That's the thing - for the most part, they're taking jobs that legally don't exist thanks to minimum wage. Citizens wouldn't be able to follow suit and to be honest I find it unlike there are that many places which will only offer underpaid jobs on the quiet and axe normal ones as a result.

Then again, I know sweet fuck all about normal jobs. Mine only gets safer as things get worse, so I never really paid attention.

It's hard and few/far in between where there are work centers that actually pay under minimum wage.

The illegals get SSNs etc etc from "Black Market" esque place where they can pretend they are someone they aren't. Then the employer reports paying a legitimate citizen to the irs and no one's the wiser. What's bad about this is that they take the stolen identities and use them to get credit cards, buy houses, things like that, which unless a person is paying close attention to where their data goes there's no way to know what's going on, yet their credit scores keep going down for no known reason.

[paladin]

I heard Mexico is trying to Sue AZ in AZ federal court. I couldn't find a report but while channel surfing, Megan Kelly on America Live said it. If its true, major irony lols

[sleepy1212]

I heard Mexico is trying to Sue AZ in AZ federal court. I couldn't find a report but while channel surfing, Megan Kelly on America Live said it. If its true, major irony lols

Found this one. (http://www.examiner.com/x-46228-Atlanta-Immigration-Examiner%7Ey2010m6d22-Mexico-signs-on-with-the-US-government-to-sue-Arizona)

So let me get this straight, the ACLU and Mexico are in charge of our laws?

That is fucking ridiculous. Mexico should, in no way shape or form, have any ability to sue a state, much less over a state law. I guess Arizona should counter-sue Mexico for making Mexican citizens want to leave in the first place. Fuck them, fuck Mexico.

What's even worse is that the Federal Gov. is suing AZ for enforcing FEDERAL LAWS!!?

[paladin]

Sorry, but this just shows you how fucked up progressives are...

[rossmum]

Not really.

[Dwood]

Not really.

go on.

[rossmum]

Progressives generally don't base their policy off of religion, veiled racism or "fuck you, got mine".

[paladin]

They just allow foreign, hypocritical administrations direct their opinions.

[=sw=warlord]

They just allow foreign, hypocritical administrations direct their opinions.
And policies based of religion and veiled racism isn't hypocritical?

[sleepy1212]

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