I'm Surprised No One Has Post This Yet: Ground Zero Mosque Controversy

[DarkHalo003]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama

In case you've been living under a rock (mainly because this is months old and persists to this day) some Muslims want to build a Mosque what some people consider too close to Ground Zero, where the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Centers occurred (assuming you don't know that much neither). So, considering this COULD BE a good debate, what is your opinion on the building of a Mosque (the type church of the religion of the fundamentalists that carried out the attacks) so close to a place extremely sensitive to millions of Americans?

(I the parenthetical after Mosque is meant to inform why people are so angry over this, not to insult any members here of the religion.)

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION.

[thehoodedsmack]

Without commenting on the wisdom of the decision, the mosque is being proposed to be built on private property, and it is well within the rights of those involved to do so.

The same rights and zoning restrictions would apply if someone wished to build a synagogue or church on the spot. People are sensationalizing the issue due to the fact that they personally believe, or believe that others believe, that having a mosque near ground zero will illicit radical response from anti-Islamic protesters and retribution-seeking, all-American, "send them sand-niggers home", nationalists who haven't gotten over the fact that 9/11 was caused by a select few fundamentalists.

[DarkHalo003]

Well my opinion is that the Mosque shouldn't be built due to the potential for Radical reactions. Whether it be the radical Muslims or, as you mentioned, the radical Americans, the Mosque is just too dangerous at that spot. Also, I think it would be courteous for people who suffered from that day. From my point of view, it's just like someone dying from a war and their tomb being built over to make way for a shopping center.

[sdavis117]

http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/982I6vVB/11554586.jpg

[Dwood]

imho it's inappropriate to build one. Completely lawful and nothing wrong with it (lawfully) but just inappropriate.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with that orthodox Christian church there- it wasn't crazy, hysterical Christians angry at America who drove planes into buildings killing thousands on 9/11.

[staticchanger]

Don't build it there. Regardless of all other reasons, the fact that it has already caused this much controversy is enough to justify building it elsewhere. It should not matter to the Muslims whether or not their mosque is close to Ground Zero, it does however matter to well over half the population of New York, who oppose the building of the mosque according to this poll (http://www.siena.edu/uploadedfiles/home/parents_and_community/community_page/sri/sny_poll/SNY0810%20Crosstabs.pdf) by Sienna College (See item number 24). To avoid major protest and possible violence the smartest move would be to build it elsewhere which works out fine for both parties. If they decide to build the mosque that close to ground zero with the media coverage they've been getting, they're just asking for it.

[DarkHalo003]

The fact isn't that there is a religious building that close to Ground Zero. The fact is that it's a religious building that can host potential radicals (not generalizing) that are linked to the same radicals that destroyed two symbolic structures of America and initially shattered thousands of lives while the repercussions damaged millions more. Maybe one day in the distant future, but right now it is completely unnecessary and, like Dwood said, completely inappropriate.

[iizahsum]

imho it's inappropriate to build one. Completely lawful and nothing wrong with it (lawfully) but just inappropriate.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with that orthodox Christian church there- it wasn't crazy, hysterical Christians angry at America who drove planes into buildings killing thousands on 9/11.

It also wasn't your everday muslim who did it either. It was what we call an Extremeist. Also (I'm not trying to start a religion war) wasn't it the crazy, hysterical Christians that tried to take over that entire area of the middle east a couple hundred years ago?

[Crackers]

Who the fuck cares. The religion should not be linked to terrorism as only a few individuals created this event.

What people do not seem to understand is that people like Osama Bin Laden are merely using religions to rally people to gain power, which has been done a thousand times before by pre-existing rulers. The religion truly does not matter as it is simply being used as a scapegoat and an excuse to attack us.

An example of this would be during the crusades, an Italian ruler of some city state (forgot which one) funded the religious armies to fight a crusade if they would sack constantinople and bring him back the wealth. This shows that one individual convinced "religious" people to attack an ally city of the same religion. These people do not care about the religion or its rules, they merely use it as a face to create some form of unity.

Muslims are not terrorists. nor should they represent terrorism, as plenty of other terrorists come from other parts of the world. Let's all go visit North Korea, I am sure we wont run into any people with terrorist intent on the US there!!! To be honest these individuals are fucked up, but they are beautiful in their execution of chaos. Everyday they indirectly cause some kind of bullshit to rise up and shake some establishment, which is exactly what they aimed for: Terror.

The majority of Americans are ignorant, this is no longer a stereotype, but a fact. A sad, sad fact. I am an American and I can admit this without a second thought and to be honest it makes me all the more determined to suceed so I can get away from here.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Who the fuck cares. The religion should not be linked to terrorism as only a few individuals created this event.

This.

Funny how many in here are using the same arguments the Neonazis are using in Germany against the building of Mosques right now.

[DarkHalo003]

It also wasn't your everday muslim who did it either. It was what we call an Extremeist. Also (I'm not trying to start a religion war) wasn't it the crazy, hysterical Christians that tried to take over that entire area of the middle east a couple hundred years ago?
Yeah, but that's not a valid argument to allow someone to place a Mosque near such a sensitive area. Just because somewhere is intended for the moderates and the good people of a religion doesn't mean that there won't be bad eggs that congregate there too. Besides, why can't they build it somewhere else where no one would give them grief?

@Crackers: No one ever said the standard Muslims are the terrorists and I agree that people utilize religion for the sol purpose of causing chaos (and gaining power). Therefore, those who use religion will have more reason to use those Mosques as cover ups, at which they may congregate and prepare to cause chaos down the road (metaphorically and literally).

[Syuusuke]

How did you conclude that using "Mosques as cover ups, at which they may congregate..." from "utilizing religion for the sole* purpose of causing chaos"? And they could just as well "congregate" in other public places (or private like the backs of Deli stores or their own homes).

[Crackers]

That is fucking retared.

Here is what is wrong with your post:

-Terrorists using mosques as a coverup and a congregation point:

Every bastard in the USA thinks that muslims are terrorist, why the fuck would they go along with the stereotype and be in places where people fucking suspect them? Common fucking sense dictates they would be in a much less populated area to perform terrorist activities.

-Terrorists will go to a mosque and plan an attack 230 yards from where their base is.

Honestly? Thats like me building a bomb in my front yard then walking across the street setting it on top of a neighbors car then fucking setting it off. Except this is in New York. A extremely densely populated city with onlookers fucking EVERYWHERE. Oh and lots of cameras.

Then finally last but for sure not least:

The terrorists will congregate there and attack the very same fucking spot they attacked before ( Which is now a hole in the dirt):

I mean, what the fuck man, why would they attack in the VERY SAME AREA. Thats like using the above example of me having a mission to destroy my neighbor. I blow up his car, then instead of attacking something else important to him, I just go back to the wreckage and light it on fire. All it is going to do is just make him pissed and bring even more attention to myself and my base thats 230 yards from the area.

[CN3089]

Yeah, but that's not a valid argument to allow someone to place a Mosque near such a sensitive area. Just because somewhere is intended for the moderates and the good people of a religion doesn't mean that there won't be bad eggs that congregate there too. Besides, why can't they build it somewhere else where no one would give them grief?

@Crackers: No one ever said the standard Muslims are the terrorists and I agree that people utilize religion for the sol purpose of causing chaos (and gaining power). Therefore, those who use religion will have more reason to use those Mosques as cover ups, at which they may congregate and prepare to cause chaos down the road (metaphorically and literally).

Would you ban the building of churches near abortion clinics? How about gun stores in downtown Oklahoma City?

[Bodzilla]

a rather acute point.

[iizahsum]

Yeah, but that's not a valid argument to allow someone to place a Mosque near such a sensitive area. Just because somewhere is intended for the moderates and the good people of a religion doesn't mean that there won't be bad eggs that congregate there too. Besides, why can't they build it somewhere else where no one would give them grief?

@Crackers: No one ever said the standard Muslims are the terrorists and I agree that people utilize religion for the sol purpose of causing chaos (and gaining power). Therefore, those who use religion will have more reason to use those Mosques as cover ups, at which they may congregate and prepare to cause chaos down the road (metaphorically and literally).


Sensitive area my ass. It's been used as a peice of propaganda just for this war. That one event was twisted into a frenzy of "fuck islmaics and there beliefs, christians are so much beter" and these asinine people dont realize that they are almost the same damn religion with different names.

[rossmum]

imho it's inappropriate to build one. Completely lawful and nothing wrong with it (lawfully) but just inappropriate.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with that orthodox Christian church there- it wasn't crazy, hysterical Christians angry at America who drove planes into buildings killing thousands on 9/11.
no. it's crazy hysterical christians angry at everyone who isn't a crazy hysterical christian who have fucked up the entire world for the past thousand years. i'd say the muslims have a pretty good track record by comparison.

the fact it is causing a controversy means little to me other than "the people who actually are getting mad about this are horrible dumb irrational morons and no better than religious extremists".

[paladin]

Would you ban the building of churches near abortion clinics? How about gun stores in downtown Oklahoma City?

I think my gun shop across the street from Columbine HS would be fine....

Greg sorta takes the words out of mouth on this issue. note, if you havent seen Red Eye before, its complete satire....

BP2BRMz_qbo

I cant wait for Greg Gay bar to open across the street. (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gutfield-to-open-a-gay-bar-next-to-ground-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-islamic-gay-men/)

[ICEE]

build it. IDGAF. it wasn't those particular mosque-goers who crashed planes into the city. The terrorists are not a good representation of that religion. No reason not to.

[Dwood]

no. it's crazy hysterical christians angry at everyone who isn't a crazy hysterical christian who have fucked up the entire world for the past thousand years. i'd say the muslims have a pretty good track record by comparison.

the fact it is causing a controversy means little to me other than "the people who actually are getting mad about this are horrible dumb irrational morons and no better than religious extremists".

Let's build a Neo-Nazi Cultural center next to Auschwitz.

[FRain]

As much as I have no issue with it, and I can't see why anyone would give a shit, too many people are absolutely-stereotypically fucknuts retarded and CAN, and WILL cause WAY to much shit over it.

[rossmum]

Let's build a Neo-Nazi Cultural center next to Auschwitz.
yes because that's totally the same fucking thing as perfectly normal muslims wanting to build a perfectly normal mosque within a few hundred metres (not even across the goddamn street) of the former wtc, way to go

let's see

extremist groups kill more muslims in a year than they have killed westerners in total, they force their shit on the majority muslim populations of areas they control yet not on christians in western nations, they give a bad impression of a religion they bastardise the shit out of and are only vaguely even following themselves. the taliban and the westboro baptists are ideologically the same thing, except the latter would rather sue everyone and everything to get rich than blow everyone and everything up to get powerful.

totally the fucking same thing. i want to fucking slap you for even making that fucking comparison you idiot.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

ross, I wanted to respond to his post but I did not bother since every five seconds a new argument came to mind ^^

[rossmum]

believe me i cannot even put into writing how utterly infuriated i am that he even brought that up, let alone in a serious manner

[Aerowyn]

Look, they have to pray somewhere. If it was a catholic church that was being denied permission to build there you'd hear shit flying all over the place about religious discrimination.

The point of September 11th's terrorist attacks was.... well, to frighten us. To make us fear others. To test our tolerance. This is a test of tolerance. This is America, where the last time I checked, we had freedom to practice any religion we want. The Muslims that will be using this mosque were not responsible for the actions of RADICAL Muslim extremists. They shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of the few... just like Catholics today shouldn't be (and aren't) held accountable for the actions of the Spanish Inquisition.

If we make them move somewhere else, it will show the world that we are incapable of trusting Muslims, or being tolerant of them because of 9/11. What happened on September 11th was a tragedy, and even that is an understatement. But it's time that we put our grief aside and move forward, instead of dwelling on our fear and hatred for those responsible.

At the end of the day, it's only a mosque.



Besides, why can't they build it somewhere else where no one would give them grief?

Why can't black people just sit at the back of the bus where no one will give them grief?

Just because something is the easier resolution to a conflict does not make it the right one.


Therefore, those who use religion will have more reason to use those Mosques as cover ups, at which they may congregate and prepare to cause chaos down the road (metaphorically and literally).

You make it sound sound like a Muslim prayer service is like a KKK meeting. You come off as being really paranoid and ignorant.

[neuro]

if you build it, they will come.

[Phobias]

Let's build a Neo-Nazi Cultural center next to Auschwitz.


Holy fucking shit, you have to be kidding. Here, I'll give you the shovel you need to get out of this hole; are you trolling or just plain stupid?

[Bodzilla]

i think the later

[sleepy1212]

This whole thing smells of one big troll fest. Considering Rauf has been implicated in some shady dealings in the past and has been named an "unindicted coconspirator" in Hamas terrorism I don't particularly trust these people, especially when their "community outreach" center is in such poor taste and causing such a shit fest. However I strongly disagree with giving Islam a constitutional excuse to sue NY. Don't get me wrong, perfectly legal |= morally right and let's be honest, radical Islam is on the rise and it is incongruent with modern American culture and they would certainly hail this as a victory monument. I'm staying skeptical of the "religion of peace" until mainstream Islam decides to unilaterally disassociate themselves from the radicals the same way modern Christians have.

Let them build it but I'm with Han Solo on this one, I have a bad feeling about this.

On a side note can we fucking kill Nancy Pelosi already? Calling for a federal investigation into the funding of the opposition to the mosque?

[rossmum]

but modern christians haven't disassociated themselves from their more retarded elements (see: a sizeable portion of the south)

e/

can we get a BROWN PEOPLE or LOL MUSLIMS thread tag up in this joint? i feel it's only appropriate to signify the incoming barrage of sheer fucking blind ignorance

*makes post about WELL YEAH I GUESS THEYRE OKAY BUT YOU KNOW SOME OF THEM ARE DODGY AND I DONT TRUST THEM AND BLAH BLAH BLAH while secretly fantasising over going full hitler on muslims in western nations*

[rossmum]

oh and this image owns b/c it's so true

http://i.imgur.com/TacgJ.jpg

[CN3089]

I'm staying skeptical of the "religion of peace" until mainstream Islam decides to unilaterally disassociate themselves from the radicals the same way modern Christians have.

. . .

On a side note can we fucking kill Nancy Pelosi already?

sleepy1212, ladies and gentlemen :ugh:


bonus fun fact: muslims pray at an interfaith chapel in the pentagon literally a few feet away from when it was hit

~the more you know~

[sleepy1212]

I'm sorry you guys are right because Pat Robertson applauded David Koresh, The Pope has a picture of Timothy McVeigh over his desk and I apparently missed the episode where Glen Beck blamed the spanish inquisition on the jews.

[rossmum]

well clearly we missed the part where every muslim ever has a shrine to osama bin laden then!!!!! i never knew!!!! all these years i have been friends with snaf and secretly he associates himself with extremists by being muslim!!!!

phobias, better bring a spare shovel mate

[rossmum]

ps glenn beck is quite literally fucking insane and trying to use him as an example in that manner is just hilarious

[sleepy1212]

lol Ross, you get upset when the letters G and B get too close together. It's a perfectly reasonable example considering most of your ilk regard him as a zionist kook and, hypocritically, as representative of all of Christendom. Talk about phobias. Let's get something straight here though, we don't have to make this about american muslims. The Taliban, however, operates worldwide and on 6 continents in conjunction with various other Radical groups to achieve common goals. Most of the Middle Eastern countries, in some way, support subversive and fundamentalist organizations. (most of this you can find in Holy War Inc., Peter Bergen). Those countries in turn are supported by their citizens and by Muslims abroad, but not all and I admit not the majority although I think a little permissiveness is wide spread.

Let me put it this way, when Bush went on his "Evangelical Crusade", as so many leftists called it, through the ME...did you not blame Christians? But it wasn't religious at all. Now it's about oil, right? hmm. This is all digression though...The real point here is that we are at war with Radicals who claim Islam, and I find nothing wrong with being Skeptical (which was my original and present position) of the movements and operations of Islamists in this country regarding internationally funded projects like the Cordoba House.

I still prefer they didn't build it but they have every right to.

[Aerowyn]

I know some of our users will be like "LOL KEITH OLBERMANN HE'S CRAZY BIAS BIAS BIAS" but seeing as we've already had some Fox News commentary posted, I am justified. But he really explains it well:

QZpT2Muxoo0

[CrAsHOvErRide]

http://www.progelsenkirchen.de/nrw-gegen-islamisierung.jpg

http://www.npd-wetterau.de/inhalte/image/Nein-Moschee.jpg
http://teasynews.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/minarett_svp.jpg?w=421&h=600

:golfclap:

[Aerowyn]

http://www.progelsenkirchen.de/nrw-gegen-islamisierung.jpg

http://www.npd-wetterau.de/inhalte/image/Nein-Moschee.jpg
http://teasynews.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/minarett_svp.jpg?w=421&h=600

:golfclap:

Well I'm sure those mean something.

Also, the Pro-NRW is like the Westboro Baptist Church of Germany. Doesn't do much to prove a point.

[CrAsHOvErRide]

Pro-NRW has nothing to do with religion. The other party is obvious. Just wanted to show the parallelism. And trust me, there is more parallelism to this issue than 'Nazis hate all foreigners'.

[DarkHalo003]

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION.

It's more or less about politics, which is why I placed it here. Unless you want a religious thread in the Great Debate, this is just a reminder to not bring religion into this. I'm actually glad that people are bringing the arguments to the floor and expressing themselves here than giving bad rep left and right because they didn't understand a post or so.

Westboro Baptist isn't a church BTW. It's just a group of family members who enrage people to do crap so they can sue whoever punched them deservingly in the face for their money. It's a scam and they're basically real-life trolls.


Yeah, but that's not a valid argument to allow someone to place a Mosque near such a sensitive area. Just because somewhere is intended for the moderates and the good people of a religion doesn't mean that there won't be bad eggs that congregate there too. Besides, why can't they build it somewhere else where no one would give them grief?

@Crackers: No one ever said the standard Muslims are the terrorists and I agree that people utilize religion for the sol purpose of causing chaos (and gaining power). Therefore, those who use religion will have more reason to use those Mosques as cover ups, at which they may congregate and prepare to cause chaos down the road (metaphorically and literally).
When I refer to my own post, I'm talking about THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. I'm not insulting any normal Muslim by making this statement. If you are in lalaland and ignoring the fact that terrorists using the Mosque as grounds to get closer to a region people clearly don't want them near (the terrorists I mean), then you seriously need to stop being idolistic about how this component works. It's one thing to be supportive of a group because it's a more open-minded approach (and a better approach too I might add), but not thinking of what could seriously go wrong is a failure to being realistic. Am I being paranoid? Sure. Yet, in the end you need to understand that not only could this mosque potentially lead to (I don't want to make this sound crude) a gateway to more radicals to have a just cause for assembly (understand I mean this as in the terrorists' own advantage and defiling of a religious building's purpose), but it may also give ground for radical Americans to find "just cause" in assaulting many innocent Muslims in the region as well (sorry I didn't mention earlier that a good idea of terrorism isn't just the Muslim terrorist, but also the American antagonist).

When I say something, I don't mean for it to sound offensive, cruel, and outright stupid. I say it to be real and think of what could possibly go wrong. I think that way to pose as to how things should go better and I'm glad many of you have taken my prompts as stimuli for better discussion.

[Rentafence]

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION.

It's more or less about politics, which is why I placed it here. Unless you want a religious thread in the Great Debate, this is just a reminder to not bring religion into this. I'm actually glad that people are bringing the arguments to the floor and expressing themselves here than giving bad rep left and right because they didn't understand a post or so.

Westboro Baptist isn't a church BTW. It's just a group of family members who enrage people to do crap so they can sue whoever punched them deservingly in the face for their money. It's a scam and they're basically real-life trolls.


When I refer to my own post, I'm talking about THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. I'm not insulting any normal Muslim by making this statement. If you are in lalaland and ignoring the fact that terrorists using the Mosque as grounds to get closer to a region people clearly don't want them near (the terrorists I mean), then you seriously need to stop being idolistic about how this component works. It's one thing to be supportive of a group because it's a more open-minded approach (and a better approach too I might add), but not thinking of what could seriously go wrong is a failure to being realistic. Am I being paranoid? Sure. Yet, in the end you need to understand that not only could this mosque potentially lead to (I don't want to make this sound crude) a gateway to more radicals to have a just cause for assembly (understand I mean this as in the terrorists' own advantage and defiling of a religious building's purpose), but it may also give ground for radical Americans to find "just cause" in assaulting many innocent Muslims in the region as well (sorry I didn't mention earlier that a good idea of terrorism isn't just the Muslim terrorist, but also the American antagonist).

When I say something, I don't mean for it to sound offensive, cruel, and outright stupid. I say it to be real and think of what could possibly go wrong. I think that way to pose as to how things should go to go right and I'm glad many of you have taken my prompts as stimuli for better discussion.

Yeah sure that's cool but since when do "terrorists" only congregate at Mosques? This isn't Age of Empires.

It's funny because he's implying that terrorists only come from Mosques, like how units in AOE only come from certain buildings.

[Aerowyn]

Pro-NRW has nothing to do with religion. The other party is obvious. Just wanted to show the parallelism. And trust me, there is more parallelism to this issue than 'Nazis hate all foreigners'.

I didn't mean it in terms of being religious. I meant is as the fact that they're crazy and extreme, and very few people actually associate themselves with them.

[DarkHalo003]

It's not the fact that it's a Mosque: It's the fact that it's a Mosque near an area most Americans consider a symbol of the country effected by radicals of the same religion (even if they don't represent the entire religious population). Yeah, there's a Mosque further down the road (notice how it's FURTHER down the road), but do you honestly think that the reason why they're building a Mosque just one block from the other Mosque is because the first Mosque is reaching capacity? I think not. It looks more like a political stunt and to make a statement. They could easily build a NEW MOSQUE anywhere else, but it has to be this close to an area so controversial for it to be in for what reason? You fill in the blank. They're not trying to make a peace statement; peace comes with respecting each other which one side clearly does not completely respect yet (notice how I said YET).

[Aerowyn]

It's not the fact that it's a Mosque: It's the fact that it's a Mosque near an area most Americans consider a symbol of the country effected by radicals of the same religion (even if they don't represent the entire religious population). Yeah, there's a Mosque further down the road (notice how it's FURTHER down the road), but do you honestly think that the reason why they're building a Mosque just one block from the other Mosque is because the first Mosque is reaching capacity? I think not. It looks more like a political stunt and to make a statement. They could easily build a NEW MOSQUE anywhere else, but it has to be this close to an area so controversial for it to be in for what reason? You fill in the blank. They're not trying to make a peace statement; peace comes with respecting each other which one side clearly does not completely respect yet (notice how I said YET).

Actually, we've all been calling it the wrong thing. It's not a mosque.

You hear me correctly.


IT IS NOT A MOSQUE.

A mosque is a place designated SPECIFICALLY for worship. This is not. It's an Islamic community center. It's a 13-story building that will include a performing arts center, a lecture hall, a swimming pool, a gym, a culinary school, a restaurant and a 2-story prayer space for Muslims. It's pretty much a YMCA that is being established by Muslims.

This community center is NOT JUST FOR MUSLIMS, either. Yes, it has a prayer space on the top two floors for Muslims, but the rest of the building is for interfaith use. Anyone can go and use it. So why we're making this an issue is really beyond me.

By your reasoning, I suppose we shouldn't let Muslims live in New York City because that is just disrespectful, since we all know NYC is too sensitive an area for Muslims to be residing in. One might just spit on the sidewalk three blocks away from Ground Zero, HOW OFFENSIVE!!!!

It's offensive to me that you assume that they're putting what you think is a "mosque" to disrespect America. It just makes you look stupid, paranoid, and misinformed. You're generalizing Muslims because your only exposure to them was via the news during 9/11. You think they're all evil terrorists, deep down, because you've never known a real muslim before. You think that because of September 11th, all Muslims meet in dark alleys and places of worship to devise evil plots on how to kill Americans.

You genuinely make me sick.

[thehoodedsmack]

DarkHalo, did you watch the Keith Olbermann clip? It has some useful information. One bit of which is that the current mosque in the area can only hold about 20% of the people that want to use it. That seems like a very good reason to build another place of worship in the same area.

[DarkHalo003]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Why does NO ONE FREAKING ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND ANYTHING I SAY? Who am I pointing at? Figure it out. I'm tired of spelling out how this facility is insulting to some, invigorating for others, and potentially hazardous to many. But you know what, who fucking cares? No, I don't think all Muslims are evil. No, I'm not generalizing the entire Muslim population by saying that the Imam who has made critical and ignorant mistakes about 9/11 wants to build the "facility" THERE and not anywhere else. It's the same damn argument five times over and I'm generally sick of it. There ARE other places to place the building and I really don't see a point (the "to suit the needs of other Muslims" argument doesn't work because of this) if most of America doesn't want the thing there. Do you really want me to spell it out again? Okay, here it is at least five times in this thread:


Don't build it there. Regardless of all other reasons, the fact that it has already caused this much controversy is enough to justify building it elsewhere. It should not matter to the Muslims whether or not their mosque is close to Ground Zero, it does however matter to well over half the population of New York, who oppose the building of the mosque according to this poll (http://www.siena.edu/uploadedfiles/home/parents_and_community/community_page/sri/sny_poll/SNY0810%20Crosstabs.pdf) by Sienna College (See item number 24). To avoid major protest and possible violence the smartest move would be to build it elsewhere which works out fine for both parties. If they decide to build the mosque that close to ground zero with the media coverage they've been getting, they're just asking for it.


imho it's inappropriate to build one. Completely lawful and nothing wrong with it (lawfully) but just inappropriate.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with that orthodox Christian church there- it wasn't crazy, hysterical Christians angry at America who drove planes into buildings killing thousands on 9/11.


Let's build a Neo-Nazi Cultural center next to Auschwitz.


I think my gun shop across the street from Columbine HS would be fine....

Greg sorta takes the words out of mouth on this issue. note, if you havent seen Red Eye before, its complete satire....



This whole thing smells of one big troll fest. Considering Rauf has been implicated in some shady dealings in the past and has been named an "unindicted coconspirator" in Hamas terrorism I don't particularly trust these people, especially when their "community outreach" center is in such poor taste and causing such a shit fest. However I strongly disagree with giving Islam a constitutional excuse to sue NY. Don't get me wrong, perfectly legal |= morally right and let's be honest, radical Islam is on the rise and it is incongruent with modern American culture and they would certainly hail this as a victory monument. I'm staying skeptical of the "religion of peace" until mainstream Islam decides to unilaterally disassociate themselves from the radicals the same way modern Christians have.

Let them build it but I'm with Han Solo on this one, I have a bad feeling about this.



Now, the point isn't how radical my fucking statements may sound or how radical you perceive them to be because you don't read into anything I'm saying because you are too blind with your own rage about how I'm stupid, you're right, and how I make you disgusted. I have said at least 5 times in my writings in this thread alone THAT I AM NOT GENERALIZING THE MUSLIM PUBLIC and that I'm not grouping terrorists with Muslims. Like, seriously, are some of you so thick in the head to rely on the American stereotype that you think you can simply blast over what we say just because you follow American stereotypes. HELL NO. At first this thread was going good, but then someone (and I easily point at myself too) had to interpret a post wrong and cause a hell hole to open up in these forums. Either I'll lock this and say good ridance (because no one seems to be taking one side correctly and understand the effects of what we mean by people shouldn't be building it THERE and NOW) or throw this up in the are and stop giving a damn. I'm not mad because people are responding with different opinions (I'm extremely glad to see other opinions and so constructively at first). I'm mad because people take everything I and others say and exaggerate it tenfold. The complete lack of respect is just stupid in this thread (even on my part and I apologixe for that too) and now we've resorted to name calling. I was trying to keep this from getting personal, but I can't continue relaying my opinions because I have issues relaying what I mean to people without causing a load of bullshit to start. Sorry for ruining the thread guys. Didn't mean to ruin it for those who enjoy it.