New war on the horizon?

[ThePlague]

North Korea vs South Korea. (http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/23/nkorea.skorea.military.fire/index.html?hpt=T1)
Ships being sunk. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8589507.stm)

Thoughts, opinions, etc?

[Siliconmaster]

Well shit, that's new. On the one hand, this is the first direct attack since the 70s. However, it is North Korea- my prediction is that there will be a lot of political unrest, and then some blaming, nd then things will return to their usual "I hate you, you hate me, let's glare at each other" deal.

[Futzy]

Well shit, that's new. On the one hand, this is the first direct attack since the 70s. However, it is North Korea- my prediction is that there will be a lot of political unrest, and then some blaming, nd then things will return to their usual "I hate you, you hate me, let's glare at each other" deal.
The island is in disputed territory and there have been strikes on it by NK a few times in the last few years. The last time they hit it with artillery was back in 08 I believe.

[Siliconmaster]

Gotcha. That makes even more sense now.

[Hotrod]

How would we be affected by this war though?

[ThePlague]

There are U.S troops stationed in South Korea. Meaning we'd probably have to help.

[TeeKup]

Not to mention a carrier task force in the area. Further aggression would be unwise on North Korea's part.

[RedBaron]

Doesn't change a thing. The US has been "stationed" there for the past 60 years. SK has really only served as a refueling and deployment point into the Middle East, just like Germany. Unless NK openly places artillery strikes on US installations, then the same old shit is just going to happen again. And NK isn't that crazy??

Take the cold war for example, when the US was stationed in West Berlin. For over 2 decades, the USSR displayed aggression from their side of the wall. Placing mine fields, broadcasting propaganda, and placing turret encampments against defectors. Even when the Soviets started gunning down their own citizens for trying to get over the wall, the US did nothing to start open conflict. The biggest action that the Western forces took in Berlin was to parachute in rations when the Soviets bombed out the supply tracks. That was the extent of the US's hostility, making food rain down from the sky.

The Cuban missile crisis doesn't even have to be mentioned. Again, both sides backed down and did nothing.

[paladin]

dont forget about this. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8589507.stm) NK is testing the waters..... It would not surprise me if they try something more dramatic in the future.

[ChemicalFizz]

If Obama wants a second term.....................

[sleepy1212]

dont forget about this. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8589507.stm) NK is testing the waters..... It would not surprise me if they try something more dramatic in the future.

until they get what they want on the negotiating table. they do this every time they want something. they're like toddlers pitching a fit in the toy aisle. and the rest of the world is like a spineless parent.

we're not going to war there's a politician in the white house who works for the UN... which means we wouldn't go to war even if he wasn't hoping to get re-elected.

on the upside apparently money is not an issue...lol

[Aerowyn]

We're allies with South Korea. So if they go to war, we are obliged to aid them.
China is allies with North Korea.
China owns $895 BILLION of US debt.

This equation just seems bad to me. I don't think China has the gall to drop the US dollar, but it is concerning nonetheless.

[Warsaw]

Well, we could theoretically tariff China straight to hell since they are also so reliant upon the US for their income...

[Nero]

They make almost all are shit. Also, China doesn't really rely on our money. If they relied on our money so much, they wouldn't buy our debt. If worst comes to worst, China has no problems going to war. So China wont be screwed in any way really. Its the rest of the world that will be jumping hoops trying to stabilize and put things back to place.
Oh btw, I'm Canadian, so technically when I say "we" I mean you. ;)
Wait.. nvm, we rely on a America just like America on China. Damn.

[iizahsum]

Doesn't change a thing. The US has been "stationed" there for the past 60 years. SK has really only served as a refueling and deployment point into the Middle East, just like Germany. Unless NK openly places artillery strikes on US installations, then the same old shit is just going to happen again. And NK isn't that crazy??

Take the cold war for example, when the US was stationed in West Berlin. For over 2 decades, the USSR displayed aggression from their side of the wall. Placing mine fields, broadcasting propaganda, and placing turret encampments against defectors. Even when the Soviets started gunning down their own citizens for trying to get over the wall, the US did nothing to start open conflict. The biggest action that the Western forces took in Berlin was to parachute in rations when the Soviets bombed out the supply tracks. That was the extent of the US's hostility, making food rain down from the sky.

The Cuban missile crisis doesn't even have to be mentioned. Again, both sides backed down and did nothing.

The worst thing we did then was broadcast radio messages telling people we would help them... It caused many students to be tortured in Hungary.

[=sw=warlord]

China has a population of 1,331,460,000 people, I really doubt their going to worry too much about money coming from a nation which only has 307,006,550 people.

[paladin]

China would fight like the CCCP in WWII. Quantity over quality.

[Warsaw]

China has a population of 1,331,460,000 people, I really doubt their going to worry too much about money coming from a nation which only has 307,006,550 people.

They are going to worry because the average individual in the USA has more money than the average individual over there and because they have invested quite a bit into the nation. They don't make bank off of their own people's money, they make it off of us foreign fools buying their cheap plastic shit. All we ("we" being the rest of the world) have to do is tax their products on import so that it becomes more economical to buy American. They would probably respond by lowering the yuan artificially again to put keep price points lower than ours, so we would have to increase the tariff. Eventually they will just have to compete on a level playing field (read: make quality products), otherwise their shit will be so dirt cheap to us that they aren't making profit on it.

Also of note is the US propping up India to be a rival to Chinese economy. It could get real hairy in the far east within twenty to forty years.

[Cortexian]

Fuck off stop going to war U.S.

This is what's going to happen if USA and NK go to war:
1. Troops in SK mobilize into NK.
2. Canada gets called in to provide local security for SK because you dicks left all your fucking infrastructure unattended.
3. Canadian troops get killed, Canadians rage that we help US keep peace on Southern NK border.
4. Canada gets ordered in to maintain peace in Southern NK.

This is partially in jest, but seriously. Look at Afghanistan. We're still there cleaning up your mess.

Fuck Iraq though, if Afghanistan was like a party and we're the kid cleaning it up after, Iraq was like a fucking redneck tailgate bonfire beer-fest. Clean that shit up yourselves.

[paladin]

Who said we are going to war? I seriously doubt we would, and doubt it even more since Obama is president. Calm the fuck down.

[Cortexian]

It'll happen.

[paladin]

I'll vote for Obamas Reelection if we go to war with NK...

[Warsaw]

Fuck off stop going to war U.S.

This is partially in jest, but seriously. Look at Afghanistan. We're still there cleaning up your mess.

So are we. Fair is fair.


Fuck Iraq though, if Afghanistan was like a party and we're the kid cleaning it up after, Iraq was like a fucking redneck tailgate bonfire beer-fest. Clean that shit up yourselves.

We tried and they kicked us out after yelling at us for doing our jobs despite them kicking and screaming. They apparently like rigged elections and bombings in places that would have been more secure had we stayed. I don't think Iraq will last more than ten years before going back to feudalism.

[TVTyrant]

Fuck Iraq though, if Afghanistan was like a party and we're the kid cleaning it up after, Iraq was like a fucking redneck tailgate bonfire beer-fest. Clean that shit up yourselves.

As a redneck who enjoys tailgater bonfire beerfests, I must say that we ALWAYS clean up after ourselves. We have to hunt in those parts later ;)

[Cortexian]

More to the point, maybe you should have cleaned up Iraq more before sending the majority of your Forces elsewhere on bullshit intel.

[ICEE]

Why don't you do it, Canada?

Oh wait.... (because you're Canada).

[paladin]

horses cant fly....

[Warsaw]

More to the point, maybe you should have cleaned up Iraq more before sending the majority of your Forces elsewhere on bullshit intel.

This statement is stupid. The Iraqi government wanted us to leave. They wanted us to leave. We complied. We wanted to stay and finish, but they couldn't wait.

Maybe Canada would like to actually be a proactive participant in the world at large instead of being lead into things, eh?

[CN3089]

This statement is stupid. The Iraqi government wanted us to leave. They wanted us to leave. We complied. We wanted to stay and finish, but they couldn't wait.

Maybe Canada would like to actually be a proactive participant in the world at large instead of being lead into things, eh?

Freelancer is dumb and probably meant Afghanistan, where you essentially bailed on us (Canada & the rest of NATO) to go invade Iraq.

[Warsaw]

We're back, ain't we?

Also, he said "bullshit intel," which usually means a reference to Iraq because it really was instigated on bullshit intel.

[Cortexian]

I meant you all left Afgan to go to Iraq on bullshit intel.

While Canada does not face any direct military threats, instability in other parts of the world can threaten human rights and other democratic values; the well-being of our allies; and Canada’s security, prosperity and interests. So we only really deploy when we think it will help stabilize a volatile global situation, or when we think we can help our allies avoid some fighting by providing an increase in military presence.

[Warsaw]

So I was right. We're back in Afghanistan though. And don't complain about us ditching anyone, because we got ditched in 1950.

[Cortexian]

We didn't ditch you in hopes of getting our hands on some oil.

[Warsaw]

Quit trying. You've already lost the argument. We are still in Afghanistan, and have always had a significant presence there since the 2001 attack. That's better than I can say of every other UN country during the active part of the Korean war, a US UN operation.

tl;dr: You are not "cleaning up our mess." We are cleaning up our own mess.

[CN3089]

Quit trying. You've already lost the argument. We are still in Afghanistan, and have always had a significant presence there since the 2001 attack. That's better than I can say of every other UN country during the active part of the Korean war, a US UN operation.

tl;dr: You are not "cleaning up our mess." We are cleaning up our own mess.

In what messed up universe did Canada ditch you during the Korean War?

[Warsaw]

Not Canada specifically, but the forces of the Commonwealth (which include Canada) had bullshit in the area compared to the US. In hindsight of my last post, I exaggerated a bit and I guess you could compare it to us "ditching" Coalition forces in Afghanistan, though if you look at troop ratios we still had more in Afghanistan relative to Coalition troops than Commonwealth had in Korea compared to US troops. The difference here is that Afghanistan is actually a US operation with some aid from other nations, where as Korea was billed as a co-operative effort by the United Nations. In reality, it was mostly undertaken by US forces. Commonwealth had more than anybody else helping the US, but it was still very little.

The main point here is that Freelancer is making himself look stupid by saying that Canada is cleaning up our mess in the Middle East. That is total bullocks, since we have and have always had more troops over there than Canada or any other one country.

I'm not hating on Canada, so sorry if I'm coming across that way.

[Cortexian]

We're cleaning up your mess in the sense that we're actually winning hearts and minds by helping the Afgan citizens. The US is just cleaning up shit they broke.

[Warsaw]

Right. Keep grabbing onto what little tiny scrap of relevance you think exists for your argument. You aren't actually there, so you don't know. Neither do I. You can point to news stories all you want, but there is an equal, if not greater, number of stories involving US troops in the same way.

[Kornman00]

We're cleaning up your mess in the sense that we're actually winning hearts and minds by helping the Afgan citizens. The US is just cleaning up shit they broke.
How about backing up such claims before aimlessly throwing them around, civilian?

[Amit]

How many active troops does the US have? Something close to 1.6 million? How many active troops do most ISAF countries (other than US) have? Usually less than half of that. They can't be expected to throw as many troops into a conflict they were probably reluctant to initiate.

[Warsaw]

^ That just furthers my point. Doesn't matter if you can't or won't send an equal number in. Either way, you have less in the area and so you can't throw as much weight around.

[ChemicalFizz]

Sorry to interrupt the debate but the south is supposed to run the exercises/drills starting Monday and the retaliation threat from Evildoer Korea is starting to look ugly.

[DarkHalo003]

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/23/pyongyang-threatens-holy-war-korean-style/

^Read this this morning. It worries me, even knowing how NK likes to act out.

[Cortexian]

North Korea will most likely get squashed real fast if they do anything stupid. I mean, the entire world will pretty much turn on them.

Just send in a Canadian sniper team to take out Kim Jong already. :)

[Warsaw]

Don't. We want NKorea to have an unstable leader that way when the shooting starts, the country suffers a similar fate as Nazi Germany.

[=sw=warlord]

Don't. We want NKorea to have an unstable leader that way when the shooting starts, the country suffers a similar fate as Nazi Germany.
The country is already suffering pretty bad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_22) as it is. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea)
I admit it's no where close to the total destruction Germany met by the Nazi's but it's pretty similar.

[Warsaw]

Then let its government collapse. Easier to make a new one to replace it than to try and remove the old one first. Either way, I feel that hands-off is the best approach right now. If South Korea gets stupid and gives in to impulse, shame on them.

[Bodzilla]

too bad millions of people are suffering and imprisoned........ fuck them lets play politics!

[Warsaw]

You would rather invade and potentially kill even more as they hurl themselves at our guns because they believe it's right? Think a little, man.

[Bodzilla]

just saying to think about it a little bit differently is all.