Question for GTX460 owners

[Mr Buckshot]

Dug out my old desktop recently and first upgraded the CPU from a phenom I to a Athlon II X3 435 2.9 Ghz. It was running with a 512MB 8800GT. Decent fps for the most part, but the 8800GT was showing its age in games like BC2.

So yesterday I bought an MSI GTX460 cyclone edition, 768 MB version. I know it's not the best, but benchmarks I researched online show that I should be getting much better fps with the GTX460.

Installed my GTX 460 and downloaded Nvidia's 275.33 driver, opting for a clean install to remove what was left behind by the 8800GT.

Tried out the following games, only to be disappointed and frustrated.

Performance in COD4 has improved only very slightly from the 8800GT.
Performance in Black Ops is playable but noticeably worse.
Performance in BC2 is significantly worse, and I have tried DX9, DX10, and DX11 in settings.ini. Where my 8800GT could get 40+ fps in DX10 mode, I saw my GTX460 getting below 20 fps, even in DX9 mode.

All benchmarks done at 1440x900, vsync off, maxed out in the COD games and everything high in BC2 except AA/AF/HBAO off.

I tried putting back the 8800GT, clean-installing driver 275.33, and my performance was back to what it was. Put back the GTX460 a second time, shitty results again!

Also benchmarked on my laptop hooked up to my monitor (running a Mobility radeon 5850) and it kills the GTX460's result with solid fps at near-max settings.

Looked up various forums on google, and people have reported similar issues, dating back to summer of 2010, but I have been unable to find a fix. A lot of posts I find are saying "upgrade your CPU". Yes I am aware my CPU is nothing outstanding but there is no reason why it should cause my fps to DROP from the 8800GT.

Possible hardware culprits are the mobo and PSU, but I'm skeptical.

mobo is MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum. BIOS is latest version (so that I could run a socket AM3 CPU on an AM2+).
PSU is a Ultra LSP 550W, well above the recommended for the GTX460 (450W). RAM is 4 GB and I only run one optical drive and one hard drive which shouldn't be drawing too much power.

I also do not overclock.

Besides the poor performance, another problem is that the GTX460 sounds like a jet engine even when not gaming at all. I tried using MSI Afterburner and it refuses to let me lower the fan speed below the mid-40s. Ironically, the box proudly advertises how "quiet" this card is supposed to be. My 8800GT on the other hand was relatively silent even while gaming.

Anyone else here own a GTX 400 series card and reporting similar problems? Is there anything wrong with the 275.33 drivers? If downgrading to an old driver helps, please let me know what number specifically.

e: I do have a 3 year warranty on this card, should I RMA?

e2: Forgot to add, most importantly the GTX460 seems to have messed up my CMOS. I cannot start my PC past the motherboard logo screen without clearing the CMOS (turning off the psu then holding the power button for 2 seconds). Once I clear the CMOS it starts fine, but I don't want to have to do this all the time.

e3: Exact details of my card:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=54626&vpn=N460GTX%20Cyclone768D5%2FOC&manufacture=MSI%2FMicroStar
Got it for $120 after rebate, free just cause 2 and mafia 2 on steam.

[Warsaw]

Lemon card is a lemon. Return to manufacturer.

I also hope you have learned your lesson and will stick with eVGA when buying Nvidia from now on.

[Mr Buckshot]

Lemon card is a lemon. Return to manufacturer.

I also hope you have learned your lesson and will stick with eVGA when buying Nvidia from now on.

I know eVGA is good, but reviews of this MSI model were good on the website and it's not like I need more than 3 years warranty.

Google searches reveal forums are showing that GTX460 owners who went with different manufacturers (eVGA, Asus, etc) are reporting performance issues with both 768 and 1024 MB versions. In fact other owners specifically report having upgraded from an 8800GT and getting worse fps. However those posts date to 2010 summer and never got particularly useful replies. If a lot of other users are having issues, I'm not ready to declare this card as lemon just yet.

[Warsaw]

Do you have a PCIe x16 1.0 slot? If so, that should not be such a bottleneck that you actually drop in performance. Your CPU is constant with both 8800GT and the GTX460, so that cannot be it either. How much RAM does the system have and is it 32-bit?

[Mr Buckshot]

Do you have a PCIe x16 1.0 slot? If so, that should not be such a bottleneck that you actually drop in performance. Your CPU is constant with both 8800GT and the GTX460, so that cannot be it either. How much RAM does the system have and is it 32-bit?

Nope, just two PCIe x16 2.0 slots. RAM is 4 GB and I'm using win7 x64 pro.

Posted my mobo type (msi k9n2 sli) in original post if you need more info.

[Amit]

MSI? Damn. I've never heard of an MSI GeForce card before. Only Radeon.

[Warsaw]

Did you try putting it into the other PCIe slot, just to experiment?

[Cortexian]

You go with eVGA for their customer support and lifetime warranty, not because "I won't need it for more than 3 years". That way when shit like this happens you just keep RMA'ing until you get a good card.

[Mr Buckshot]

Did you try putting it into the other PCIe slot, just to experiment?

Unfortunately it is too fat to fit in that tight part of the case.

[Cortexian]

Just rip off your audio ports with some pliers and put the card in backwards.

[Mr Buckshot]

It's not other components that cause an obstruction, it's that the mobo isn't big and my case is a mid tower. Unless I raise the tower and cut a hole in the bottom it won't fit. I can't even put my 8800GT in the other slot without it pressing against the 460

Haven't been gaming with a desktop for over 2 years now, sorry if I sound noob

[Cortexian]

Did you not get the reference?

[Warsaw]

Pull the mobo out of the tower and use a big fan to get airflow. At this point, we want to find out if it's the card or something else.

[Siliconmaster]

Just rip off your audio ports with some pliers and put the card in backwards.

Hahahahahahahahaha I totally got the reference

[Mr Buckshot]

Pull the mobo out of the tower and use a big fan to get airflow. At this point, we want to find out if it's the card or something else.

Tried running my PC "naked" like you said, still the same problem with my games, on 275.33.

However, I did try downgrading to driver 266.58, and the result is that COD Black Ops and COD4 are now performing the way they should be. Also tested Mafia II and Source games and they run very well now.

BC2 on the other hand is still running like shit. What's even more shocking is that I tried tanking my settings to 1024x768 on absolute lowest (vsync off too), and my framerate is barely in the 30s.

The card also became much quieter without having to use Afterburner, but only BEFORE I launch a game. Once I quit out, the loud fan noise persists.

[Warsaw]

That is the oddest behavior for a video card...

Maybe MSI did something screwy with their BIOS.

[Mr Buckshot]

Just put in a new 1 TB hard drive (which I was gonna do anyway), clean installed windows and installed driver 266.58 for my GTX 460.

Also found out that previously I only had version 1.6 for MSI Afterburner, so I got version 2.1.0 instead.

Now, the problem about booting and the CMOS is fixed.

The fan speed is fully controllable now and is pretty quiet.

All games - except BFBC2 - now run fine.

I played several games while having MSI Afterburner run in thebackground, and I think the GTX460 drivers and BFBC2 are just not getting along. This is because my "GPU usage" chart in Afterburner shows that the GPU has less than 40% load while running BC2, whether in high or low settings.

Even Audiosurf, which an IGP can run fine, places a 98% load on my GPU, as do all my other shooter and RTS games.

I also googled again, and discovered that owners of GTX 470 and 480 cards also have similar problems specifically with BC2. OCing doesn't help.

Anyone have a suggestion?

[Warsaw]

Personally, I would forget about it at this point and trade for a GTX 560Ti or an HD6870. It's not worth this much trouble. I don't know how to fix that problem and if you haven't stumbled upon an answer on Google yet, chances are that it hasn't been solved at all. This to me sounds like a case of Nvidia forgetting support for their older cards in one game, but I always thought BC2 had an AMD bias anyways.

[Mr Buckshot]

All right, I guess I'll return this card, thankfully I haven't claimed the rebate yet.

It is frustrating that just ONE game is refusing to run properly on this card regardless of settings, all because it somehow doesn't want to put more load on my video card than a HD movie does. For now my laptop's Radeon 5850 (comparable to a desktop 5770) should suffice. Sadly I gave away my 8800GT to a friend for his birthday so my desktop is stuck with a Geforce 8200 IGP at the moment.

On NCIX I'm seeing an XFX Radeon 6850 for $150 and a 6870 for $170, is the difference really that big to warrant the extra cost of the 6870?

[Warsaw]

Yes. 6870 is closer to performing more like the 5850 and the 6850 is more like a slightly better HD5770.

[Mr Buckshot]

Returned the GTX460, got a Radeon 6870.

Problem solved!

[Mr Buckshot]

Popping back in to say that the Radeon 6870 is giving wonderful performance. Switching to a 1920x1080 monitor once I return to uni, so I should see the GPU really being testef then.

Also, a warning to prospective Fermi GPU buyers - I am far from the only one with a problem with Fermi having excessively low GPU usage especially in BC2 and Medal of Honor. Users have reported that even the much less powerful and older 9600GT gives better performance than a GTX 460-480 in some games. See if you can find an alternative, so far ATI/AMD has yet to disappoint me in both the desktop and mobile fields.

[Cortexian]

Sounds like a lot of duds or incorrect usage. My friends 570 rapes Bad Company 2.

[Mr Buckshot]

Issues are far more common with the 400 series not the 500 afaik.

What especially pissed me off was that my friend with an older 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo and an identical MSI 768MB GTX460 was getting exactly the performance I was hoping to get, at 1920x1080 nonetheless. This Fermi business seems to be hit or miss regardless of manufacturer.

[Cortexian]

The 400 series was the first run of Fermi cards, of course there are issues.

Not sure why you didn't trade in for a 560ti or something.

[Mr Buckshot]

Radeon 6870 was cheaper on NCIX lol.

This isn't the first time I've had frustration with nvidia. Before getting my current laptop I had one equipped with a GT335M for a month (not the M11x, some Asus model) and the drivers gave me IGP-level performance quite often, not to mention that the Optimus graphics switching was a serious pain in the ass particularly on PB-enabled games. I had no choice but to return it after a month. Anyway for the moment I'll be an ATI/AMD user until Nvidia gets their shit straight.

[Warsaw]

The 400 series was the first run of Fermi cards, of course there are issues.

Not sure why you didn't trade in for a 560ti or something.

That first part is a load of horseshit, sorry. The 5870 was the first generation of its type and ran peachy. If they can't get it right, they fucked up big time. And if they STILL have not fixed it with drivers, that goes doubly for them.

As for 560Ti: overpriced garbage. Better to use a 6870; more performance per dollar.

[ThePlague]

I have a 5870, and it rapes BC2.

[Mr Buckshot]

That first part is a load of horseshit, sorry. The 5870 was the first generation of its type and ran peachy. If they can't get it right, they fucked up big time. And if they STILL have not fixed it with drivers, that goes doubly for them.

As for 560Ti: overpriced garbage. Better to use a 6870; more performance per dollar.

QFT, although right now Nvidia does have a promotion on NCIX where they offer free SC2 (trial), Just Cause 2, and mafia 2 with many of their cards including the 560Ti, so those looking to get the most out of their money and who don't already have those games might not mind sacrificing some performance to get a Nvidia and good free games. I got the GTX460 at first partly because of the free games. Thankfully MSI accepted my refund request even though I already redeemed all the game codes, so it made the Radeon worth it.

[Phopojijo]

I have an MSI 460, 1GB though. I bought nVidia because I was planning on (still am to some extent) developing in CUDA (PTX specifically). Other things came up but yeah.

[Warsaw]

And that's just fine. Buy what meets your needs.


QFT, although right now Nvidia does have a promotion on NCIX where they offer free SC2 (trial), Just Cause 2, and mafia 2 with many of their cards including the 560Ti, so those looking to get the most out of their money and who don't already have those games might not mind sacrificing some performance to get a Nvidia and good free games. I got the GTX460 at first partly because of the free games. Thankfully MSI accepted my refund request even though I already redeemed all the game codes, so it made the Radeon worth it.

I would rather pony up for the Bad Company 2/Vietnam Edition Radeon HD6970 from Sapphire. Totally worth the $380.