Need advice on colleges!

[killer9856]

The time's coming for me to choose colleges.

I want to go into 3D modeling, preferably environments. I will most likely later on minor in Special FX for movies. I can't leave the state of Illinois for college, though.

Now I need some advice.


What are some good schools for Game Art/ Design in Illinois?

I was thinking of:

Westwood College
http://www.westwood.edu/programs/school-of-design/game-art/

Tribeca Flashpoint Academy (I heard Robert De Niro made this school):
http://www.tfa.edu/

DeVry University:
http://www.devry.edu/



I have already been accepted into the Illinois Institute of Art in Schaumburg (http://www.artinstitutes.edu/schaumburg/) and I already applied and now am currently waiting for DePaul University on the Loop's response. They won't notify me until January.(http://www.depaul.edu/Pages/default.aspx). Thanks.

[dark navi]

FuturePoly. Dont waste your money else where

[neuro]

ANY college is a waste of money if you want to get into games.

unless you're going for coding.

self-teaching can get you SOOOO much more, both skill-wise, and experience wise, in the same timeframe.
i'm completely self-taught, and im CONSTANTLY schooling all these 'game-3d-education-DEGREE-people' on what they should do, because they're absolute fucking idiots.

all game degrees are moneygrabs.

[Rainbow Dash]

What neuro said.

Any educational establishment whose first priority isn't worth going to to learn.

But by all means, if you want to rack up tens of thousands of dollars in debt, go to a post secondary education :downs:

[DarkHalo003]

Don't listen to these two; they're acting stupid/bitter. Though they are correct if you want to learn coding, they're wrong in terms of the uses of College for being employed into the Gaming Industry. Note how I say EMPLOYED. Just because you're skilled, won't guarantee a job; if you apply for that job and someone is just as skilled as you WITH a degree, then you can bet everything that you wouldn't be picked for that job.

When it comes to finding colleges for the Gaming Industry/Digital Media, it's important to not only find a school that will facilitate your education and stem your skills, but also one that opens up other opportunities as well. What I mean is, while it's important to emphasize on the skills required in Zbrush and 3ds Max for most companies (343 and Bungie for instance), you must also have been educated in an Arts Degree and must understand the anatomy of what you're modeling. In addition, communication is a vital component. Here are some job postings from 343i and Bungie:

343i Environment Artist:
http://www.microsoft-careers.com/job/Redmond-Environment-Artist-IEB-Microsoft-Studios-28762333-29-Job-WA-98052/1370444/

Notice how it uses terms such as "Collaborate" and "Communication" or phrases such as "Work closely" and "Work with." These words indicate the need to be able to work with other people to accomplish the tasks given to you. College is a wonderful training ground for this. If you want to take it further or just have more of a proof-of-purchase, then Double-Majoring with a Theatre Major is a great way to show that you can work with other people (because I can legitimately inform you through experience that the Theatre Major/Minor teaches you to work with people).

Further down the same job listing, there is also the Requirement for an "Art-related DEGREE" or other professional experience. That means that you must know how to draw well, know how to draw in different perspectives, know relative art information, and know how to present your pieces. Coincidentally, listings also reference the need for Anatomy and Biology classes, which could also suffice for Majors with proof of communication skills considering the accompanying Lab Work involved.

So tell me, where besides a certified educational outlet where you obtain such an important document? Though the portfolio is incredibly important (if not 75% of what you submit to your employer), the degree is basically showing them you've taken the time to at least be exposed to the stuff you'll be doing at your job.

Some listings from Bungie that you can analyze as well:
http://www.bungie.net/Inside/aboutus.aspx#30311 (Env. Artist)
http://www.bungie.net/Inside/aboutus.aspx#31929 (World Designer)
http://www.bungie.net/Inside/aboutus.aspx#28892 (Writer)

[ejburke]

Theater major!? What on Earff... ?

If you insist on college, focus on a traditional art degree. Don't buy into that game industry education cash-grab. It's a borderline scam.

[DarkHalo003]

Theater major!? What on Earff... ?

If you insist on college, focus on a traditional art degree. Don't buy into that game industry education cash-grab. It's a borderline scam.
Yeah, it actually makes a lot of sense when you look into it.

And you're right, definitely Major in Art. Game Design junk is only a general synopsis and not specific enough of a medium to use for the industry. If you want any Major/Minor that does delve more specifically into 3ds Max or Photoshop, look for Digital Media.

[DarkHalo003]

EDIT: Ignore the double post. I glitched I guess.

[mech]

You should listen to what neuro said. I've done plenty of freelance work and have on multiple occasions " shit on the faces" of these art institute kids. It's all about how you present yourself and your work, and no; having a degree in game design( whatever the fuck that is) will not guarantee you a position over someone who doesn't. I know multiple people working in the industry now and none of them have degrees; however, none of them sat back and expected a job to be handed to them. There really is no only "3d modelling" job, you need to know how to implement, optimize, put concepts on paper, and scrap your work without hesitation. If you can do all those things with prowess and drop them in an engine to showcase your work, you'll be in good shape.

[neuro]

JABBER JABBER

your whole post boils down to 'you can show an employer: look i put some time into it'
have you ever looked at the average game-art-graduate person's work? 8/10 times it's garbage and this person has wasted 3-4 years of his life, thousands of euros/dollars, and really nothing to show for it.

being able to work in a team? that's why they give your ass a trial period.
you can be the best artist in the world, but fi you dont get along with people in the company, your ass is out of there.

i've seen poeple working in this biz who are 'doing their job' and people who were trying to always work to the best of their abilities regardless of what it is.

guess who gets their contract extended? (protip: it's not the person just 'doing their job')
this isn't a 'do-your-job' industry, it's a passion-driven industry.

if you were given a choice between a kid who spent 4 years in a school to learn this stuff, and provides a sub-entry-level portfolio, and a kid who is self-taught, and has a great entry-level portfolio and MOD-creation experience to go with it.
Who would you think is more driven and comitted to making great art?

if you're bent on getting an education into game art, go to fucking artschool. learn to draw and paint.
that's really the only thing which might be worth investing into.

i myself can't draw for FUCKIGN SHIT. i draw fucking stick figures.
when it comes to ctual GAME-art though, it's a whole different story.

feel free to completely ignore me if you'd like though.
i should propably also point out that this is coming from a europe-based artist (just be great at what you do and you'll have little problems getting jobs). and i've heard that american-based companies are cunts alot more when it comes to having a formal education.

Also, i've worked on Gears of war, Brink, and Crysis2, and right now working at ubisoft, guess what i'm working on this time?
not even ego-tripping, just saying i'm not some fresh kid who just got in the biz thinking he's hot shit.

Edit: tl;dr
Shut the fuck up dark, you're an idiot.

[TM_updates]

I know the Dutch are still a little pissy over their loss in the world-cup final last year, but "shut the fuck up dark, you're an idiot"? Come on man.
Although I agree with you, I believe a passionate person with experience creating mods is more likely to get somewhere than a person who only has a degree.

And I'm going to have a wild guess and say you're working on the new Ghost Recon, Neuro? :o

[neuro]

no actually, ghost recon is dev'd in a building a few blocks away.
also, football is a stupid game, and he IS an idiot for posting that junk
also, who are you? >:3

also, i feel like i should add this:
though i firmly stand by my point that game degrees are trash, it's not about the education or the piece of paper.
it's about what you Take from it, learn from it, and how you grow.

If you're going to (or ARE doing) do one of these thigns, it's not about what you do for your assignments, or what grades you get or getting deadlines.
it's abot putting every waking hour you have into WANTING to learn more, and becoming better.

those who can't, teach.

basically in the end, even if you DO go to a school for this.
if you come out at the end and you'll actually be GOOD at what you do, it'll because you were self-educating yourself while you were there.
not because they teach you so great.

[TM_updates]

Football is awesome!
And I'm L0d3x, the nice belgian dude who likes poking fun with the dutch :3

But yeah, say hi to the ghost recon dev's for me, GRAW 1 and 2 have got to be my favorite games on 360 even to this very day!

[DarkHalo003]

You should listen to what neuro said. I've done plenty of freelance work and have on multiple occasions " shit on the faces" of these art institute kids. It's all about how you present yourself and your work, and no; having a degree in game design( whatever the fuck that is) will not guarantee you a position over someone who doesn't. I know multiple people working in the industry now and none of them have degrees; however, none of them sat back and expected a job to be handed to them. There really is no only "3d modelling" job, you need to know how to implement, optimize, put concepts on paper, and scrap your work without hesitation. If you can do all those things with prowess and drop them in an engine to showcase your work, you'll be in good shape.
The latter portion of makes a lot of sense. However, there is something I want to address regarding your friends in the business not having degrees; being employed into the business in the past decade and being employed into the business into the next decade are two entirely different things. For instance, the population of aspiring game developers seeking employment is increasing, as is being seen by the influx of gimmicky game design courses being offered by educational institutions. There has to be a way to sort out these people and a degree is one way of doing so.

Though a degree is only a document stating you've spent such money and time being exposed to the gaming development genre of work at an educational institution, it can definitely help you obtain a job because not only is your portfolio (in which you have been developing aside from your college experience through being self-taught as Neuro suggests), but also is adding that extra credential to your resume. Is it 100% necessary? No. Like I said before, your portfolio is 75% (if not more) of your resume. This leaves your degree(s) being the 25% or less of your resume. Every little extra credential helps when applying for any job; going to an institution/college/university can help you gain access to these opportunities for more credentials.

@Neuro: You can ignore my post if you'd like, but you're being highly ignorant and naive if you think a degree/university experience is not beneficial to helping you attain a job. Like I and you have both said now, it is not 100% necessary, but it damn well helps. If I see two people with equally good portfolios, but one has a degree at, say, Georgia Tech in the Digital Media and Art Majors and the other does not have a degree at all, then I will immediately choose the more certified individual. Of course, I do live in the capitalist United States of America, so it could easily be different in other countries. But in the States it can (but not always will) be important to have more than just a portfolio in terms of certification.

Further more, Neuro, considering the economic state of the world I want to make sure I WILL be employed instead of can. I want credentials as far as the eye can see so that I WON'T be passed up. And guess what? I'm not working for degrees and potentially being fucked over by student loans just to "do my job." You make a fucktard's generalization that everyone aspiring for a degree is an idiotic fuck who can't remotely make anything worth shit just because they graduated from a college or university. Basically, when it comes time for me to submit a resume to an employer, not only will I have an outstanding portfolio full of works that I have been passionate in making, but also even more credentials to show I've been taking risks with money and time and logistics to reach my dream job. So it's not a matter of "I graduated, so therefore I deserve a job," it's "I've been working hard as shit to get a job; I've been learning shit on my own, been creating shit on my own, been working with others to accomplish shit, and have sat through 4+ years of reinforcement and learning to hopefully not be rejected when I'm interviewed and my resume is examined." And notice how I said "hopefully." There is not a guarantee and I know there's not a guarantee of me obtaining a job, even if I have more than just a portfolio to add to my resume. Regardless, I feel better knowing I've been through a shitstorm of years working at enhancing my skills and becoming a better artist/developer. I would tell you to "shut the fuck up," but I'll take the high ground because, frankly, being at your level here would accomplish nothing.

[mech]

I understand what you're saying, and agree to some extent. I just want to poster to understand that there is more than one route to hopping into the industry. I've just noticed trends in workflow of individuals that attend these schools and ones who are self taught and passion driven. This isn't saying that someone who attends one of these institutions can't strive to be the best, but many people who hop on the bandwagon with no prior experience will be ruined by what these places have to teach. It all comes down to being careful what you practice, because you'll get good at it.

[DarkHalo003]

I understand what you're saying, and agree to some extent. I just want to poster to understand that there is more than one route to hopping into the industry. I've just noticed trends in workflow of individuals that attend these schools and ones who are self taught and passion driven. This isn't saying that someone who attends one of these institutions can't strive to be the best, but many people who hop on the bandwagon with no prior experience will be ruined by what these places have to teach. It all comes down to being careful what you practice, because you'll get good at it.
And I agree with you completely. The college I go to offers shit in the way of Digital Media, but it is a Liberal Arts college and thus offers me further experience in Theatre and Art. And that's what I want more of: experience. I learn modelling on my own and I improve my skills on my own; it's things like specialized/reinforced education in Biology, Anatomy, Perspective, Art History, etc. But even more so, I go to college to be involved with other people and become experienced in my communication and cooperation with other people, which is a skill I lack and have difficulty improving anywhere else. My point isn't so much the degree (the document itself), but all of the experience gained to the point of graduating with that degree. It's all about experience. That's why I'm arguing the route that a degree should be noted when aspiring for any employment.

[Bodzilla]

your whole post boils down to 'you can show an employer: look i put some time into it'
have you ever looked at the average game-art-graduate person's work? 8/10 times it's garbage and this person has wasted 3-4 years of his life, thousands of euros/dollars, and really nothing to show for it.

being able to work in a team? that's why they give your ass a trial period.
you can be the best artist in the world, but fi you dont get along with people in the company, your ass is out of there.

i've seen poeple working in this biz who are 'doing their job' and people who were trying to always work to the best of their abilities regardless of what it is.

guess who gets their contract extended? (protip: it's not the person just 'doing their job')
this isn't a 'do-your-job' industry, it's a passion-driven industry.

if you were given a choice between a kid who spent 4 years in a school to learn this stuff, and provides a sub-entry-level portfolio, and a kid who is self-taught, and has a great entry-level portfolio and MOD-creation experience to go with it.
Who would you think is more driven and comitted to making great art?

if you're bent on getting an education into game art, go to fucking artschool. learn to draw and paint.
that's really the only thing which might be worth investing into.

i myself can't draw for FUCKIGN SHIT. i draw fucking stick figures.
when it comes to ctual GAME-art though, it's a whole different story.

feel free to completely ignore me if you'd like though.
i should propably also point out that this is coming from a europe-based artist (just be great at what you do and you'll have little problems getting jobs). and i've heard that american-based companies are cunts alot more when it comes to having a formal education.

Also, i've worked on Gears of war, Brink, and Crysis2, and right now working at ubisoft, guess what i'm working on this time?
not even ego-tripping, just saying i'm not some fresh kid who just got in the biz thinking he's hot shit.

Edit: tl;dr
Shut the fuck up dark, you're an idiot.
this post is a problem.

theres no rep system anymore.

[killer9856]

Thanks for the help guys. The advice here isn't going to be wasted.

Neuro, I completely agree with you. Everything I've done has been on my own, but I don't know if I skipped something that could be important to know. Then again, I say that's up to me to learn on my own...

How about Movie FX, like CG movies, etc.? Is that worth the investments? It's something else I'm also interested in.

[neuro]

if you're interested in it, give it a try.
if you find it fun, play with it more.

just get the software, find some tutorials, and fuck around with stuff.
that's how you learn.

[Patrickssj6]

that's how you get girls pregnant