Falklands, round 2

[rossmum]

Argentina is planning to dispute Britain's claim in front of the UN, and has accused the UK of a military buildup which supposedly threatens the stability of the south Atlantic. This announced by their president standing in front of a map of the islands with Argentina's flag superimposed over them.

Now, I'm a bit (very) biased here, but tell me if this sounds funny to you guys too: the country which invaded the islands in 1982, causing the deaths of nearly 300 British servicemen, 600 of their own, huge loss of materiel on both sides and civilian casualties as well - they are now accusing the British of threatening the stability of the region because the British are doing nothing out of the ordinary at all, merely maintaining enough of a presence there to stop the Argentineans from simply walking up the beaches, after only a year or two ago deliberately dicking them around by unlawfully interfering with British oil exploration in Falklands waters. They, along with a bunch of other South American nations, are turning away Falklands-flagged ships from their ports, economically isolating the islands. These people are honestly going to go to the UN and complain that the UK is the problem here, and are preaching about 'giving peace a chance'.

For background, the Falklands have been a British possession since 1833, their population identify themselves as British, and there is no real dubiousness surrounding the British claim to the islands. They have been agitating about 'reclaiming' the Falklands (which they refer to as the 'Malvinas', and other nations actually cater to this bullshit by referring to them by both names) for a while but the 1982 invasion was the act of a military junta facing almost certain civil war. They made the British the bogeyman and stirred up nationalist sentiment about the islands, conveniently turning the anger of the population away from themselves and onto someone else. The UN, for its part, is trying to sweet-talk the UK into 'de-colonisation' talks - what the fuck is this? The people identify as British, they want to be British, do they seriously expect them to just up and off the islands or something?

I cannot get my fucking head around this. I am just glad the UK has pledged to defend the islands as long as the islanders want them to, because holy shit, this is stupid. Regardless of whether Argentina ever had any legitimate claim to the islands, it is a long time past 1833 and it's pretty clear the islanders want no part of it.

e To clarify, I would have no issues with Argentina if they went to the UK and said, "hey, we want in on this, let's work something out". I am not really well versed in their claims to the islands, but I am sure they have some pretty legitimate reasons and it would be entirely reasonable to talk them over with the UK. Maggie Thatcher is not in power any more. You know, maybe figure out some way to share the islands so the Falklanders can stay British like they want and any Argentineans who feel like it can move there (hahaha yeah right, it takes a special kind of crazy to want to live on the south Atlantic islands). But no, it's all or nothing, and they are coating it in the same bullshit nationalist overtones and agitating for all they're worth.

[=sw=warlord]

in other words the Argentinians are going all Nazi again:allears:

[Warsaw]

WWIII! WWIII! WWIII! *gets popcorn*

Seriously, though, I had just read about this the other day. It honestly sounds like a repeat of before; the South American governments are in the shit due mostly to poor management and they are trying to turn peoples' attention elsewhere.

[TVTyrant]

Im an American and what is this /sarcasm

[Bodzilla]

3am morning shock and awe, go.

[TVTyrant]

3am morning shock and awe, go.
Dont you have to be American to pull shit like that and not get in trouble for it? Oh wait, its the UK! Our buddy buddies!

[DarkHalo003]

It's sad because this behavior is most likely provoked from historic Western domination of these countries. I really hate how it is.

[TVTyrant]

It's sad because this behavior is most likely provoked from historic Western domination of these countries. I really hate how it is.
Fuckkkkk that. If the rest of the World is tired of our bullying they should have invented guns and steam engines before we did. The concept that somehow we are at fault for being the product of THE most competitive continent pisses me off.

[=sw=warlord]

Fuckkkkk that. If the rest of the World is tired of our bullying they should have invented guns and steam engines before we did. The concept that somehow we are at fault for being the product of THE most competitive continent pisses me off.
Chinese invented Gun powder before anyone else.

[TVTyrant]

Chinese invented Gun powder before anyone else.
Their lack of flintlocks astounds me. And yes I knew that I'm a history major for God's sake!

[=sw=warlord]

Their lack of flintlocks astounds me. And yes I knew that I'm a history major for God's sake!
And yet you forget it was the Greeks who made the first steam engine [IIRR].

[TVTyrant]

And yet you forget it was the Greeks who made the first steam engine [IIRR].
Again correct. Is Greece not in Europe though?

[=sw=warlord]

Again correct. Is Greece not in Europe though?
It is but the way things are going, it may not be for long.
It's amusing, I haven't studied history since I was in school and even then my final subjects at school didn't involve history for the final year or two.
I'm remembering all this off the top of my head from back 2002-2003.

[TVTyrant]

It is but the way things are going, it may not be for long.
As in it will be gone? Its geographically located IN Europe. Are they going to move it? IDGI...

Anyways I am just saying that regions like China had a chance to become dominant. They had just as many resources as the West did. It's just that they settled on Peace, while in Europe hard, bloody competition rose the region to become the dominant culture.

[=sw=warlord]

As in it will be gone? Its geographically located IN Europe. Are they going to move it? IDGI...

Anyways I am just saying that regions like China had a chance to become dominant. They had just as many resources as the West did. It's just that they settled on Peace, while in Europe hard, bloody competition rose the region to become the dominant culture.
They're talking of ousting it from the union.
Basicly it's a massive money sinkhole and given it's current situation, the rest of Europe is potentially talking of getting Greece to either sell of a few islands [what for i'll never know] or possibly boot it out of the union.

As for the west being the dominant culture.
Why is it most of my electronics says made in Taiwan or made in china?

[TVTyrant]

As for the west being the dominant culture.
Why is it most of my electronics says made in Taiwan or made in china?
Because Westerners invented them and now need cheap labor to build it.

I believe it was your country in particular that started that cheap labor movement too.

Also I was saddened that you didn't like my Greece joke :'(

[=sw=warlord]

Because Westerners invented them and now need cheap labor to build it.

I believe it was your country in particular that started that cheap labor movement too.

Also I was saddened that you didn't like my Greece joke :'(
It was a little slippery to grasp.

[TVTyrant]

It was a little slippery to grasp.
Like a trout slippery or like a penguin covered in crude oil slippery?

[=sw=warlord]

Like a trout slippery or like a penguin covered in crude oil slippery?
I was thinking with my mind in the gutter but still, slippery and without any added help.

[TVTyrant]

I was thinking with my mind in the gutter but still, slippery and without any added help.
:parrot:

[Maniac]

Good to see you two can stay on topic for more than 2 posts, idiots.

Ross, the problem here is the same problem that has followed England for many years in many different places.
Scotland for example, we have absolutely no reason whatsoever to break from the UK, but the desire burns so bad, simply because we were colonized.

The situation where we "claim" land that is far from our own shore yet very close to another country, is always going to be akward.
Argentina believe we stole their land (which we did) and they will never be happy about that.

Each situation is different though, i dont think i ever saw any unrest in Gibraltar, but Ireland on the other hand.

[TVTyrant]

Good to see you two can stay on topic for more than 2 posts, idiots.
For someone who I barely see on here you've sure got a huge ego Maniac.

[=sw=warlord]

Good to see you two can stay on topic for more than 2 posts, idiots.

Ross, the problem here is the same problem that has followed England for many years in many different places.
Scotland for example, we have absolutely no reason whatsoever to break from the UK, but the desire burns so bad, simply because we were colonized.

The situation where we "claim" land that is far from our own shore yet very close to another country, is always going to be akward.
Argentina believe we stole their land (which we did) and they will never be happy about that.

Each situation is different though, i dont think i ever saw any unrest in Gibraltar, but Ireland on the other hand.
The situation is Argentina want the Falklands, The people who have been raised at the Falklands do not wish to come under Argentine rule.
Argentina is causing mischief to cause a stir, Britain is sending re-enforcement in case something happens.
The Argentinians are trying to play the coy game where they push their views but also pretend to be submissive.
Scotland wants it's own independence for it's own reasons, Wales doesn't really seem to care but Ireland are pissed of at Ireland because one portion is still loyal to England.


As for the insult, hardly one that was called for.

[Maniac]

You do not have to explain the situation in Scotland or Ireland for my benifit and nobody cares about Wales.
You expect the Argentinian government or people just to accept it? or not to try to reclaim their land, why would they not do that?

[=sw=warlord]

You do not have to explain the situation in Scotland or Ireland for my benifit and nobody cares about Wales.
You expect the Argentinian government or people just to accept it? or not to try to reclaim their land, why would they not do that?
The people who were born and bred on the Falklands have as much right to live there as any one.
If we had to go down that route we would have to find which family descended from which nationality which invaded every country since man begun.
Need I remind you just how many nations have invade Britain in the past few thousand years?

[Maniac]

I never said that the people who live there should have no rights, nor did i say that they should be forced to leave, if that is what you are suggesting.
You did not answer my question, why would Argentina just give up on that?
2624

You really believe it is a good thing for that small island to be owned by Great Britain?

[=sw=warlord]

I personally don't feel it should be owned by either Britain nor Argentina but be of it's own sovereignty but given it's small size it may as well be linked to larger nation than itself if only for security.
It doesn't exactly hold a vast amount of resources to be used nor is it much of tactical use.
You didn't exactly respond to what I said either.
If those people that were born and bred there chose to be allied or in your wording owned by Britain who is to tell them otherwise?
It's not like We're pulling a china with Tibet.

[Maniac]

I would expect the people who live there now are mostly of British decent. It would be only natural for them to want to be considered part of the UK.
I am British and i feel that it is just wrong.

[rossmum]

The Falklanders are pretty much all descendants of the original settling families and consider themselves British. If there were Argentineans on the islands before 1833, they weren't after, and they've left it so bloody long to try and do anything about it that it's just going to be a headache now.

If someone comes and nicks your land, you want to get it back sooner rather than later.

[TeeKup]

Are the Falklands part of the Commonwealth of Nations or is it just a territory, like what Puerto Rico is to the United States?

[Maniac]

No it is not just commonwealth, it is British soil.
Canada and Australia are commonwealth for comparison.

[Limited]

Gibraltar has never really been in any question, its as British as the street outside of my window. We will never give it up, it plays a vital role strategically. We also used it as a missile defense within the rock during WW2. The people there love the situation.

Falklands, well I personally don't know a lot about it, in my eyes if the people who live there, are in power there - society in general. If they want to remain part of Britain then sobeit.

Also this is real by the way, a Falkland news paper image on their website, its of the Argentinean leader
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/09/article-2098855-11A842F8000005DC-474_468x312.jpg
Funny eh :D

[Maniac]

The Falklands are the same a Gibraltar, it is British soil.

[Limited]

Yes we have established that, clearly this debate is more than just what soil it is. Its more than just ownership of the land.

[rossmum]

But as you said, Gibraltar is as British as the street outside your window; at least for as long as the Falklanders are there, so are the islands. How the Argies plan to get around that should be amusing, since they will need to either wipe them out or forcibly relocate them before they can even begin to call the islands theirs.

I would not put either of those past them.