[MAP] [WIP] Duality

[stunt_man]

Hey folks,

So I've been an almost daily lurker since the very beginning of this scene at the gearbox forums, and just like every last one of you suckers I've been trying in vain to relive the nostalgic glory days of CE when maps grew on trees.

Those days are long gone and there's nothing we can do to bring them back.

But that's okay, we do what we can.

So recently I've decided to give a shot at map making. A little late, I know, and I've given it a couple attempts in the past but this is the first time I've actually stuck to it and am comfortable enough with my skills to show something here.

Anyone remember the game Marathon? It's the shooter Bungie developed before Halo, and it had a pretty sweet multiplayer component. Here's a few pics of a map from Marathon: Infinity called Duality.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/AlephOne2012-04-2123-43-24-48.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/AlephOne2012-04-2123-42-36-66-1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/AlephOne2012-04-2123-42-57-95.jpg

Familiar to anyone? Probably not. Actually, I'm not the first to remake this map:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/halo22012-04-2200-05-40-92.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/halo22012-04-2200-04-57-92.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/halo22012-04-2200-04-53-96.jpg

That's Gemini from Halo 2. It sucked.

I really enjoyed the Marathon map, from the way it flowed to the way it looked. So I took it upon myself to do a more faithful remake. Here's my version of Duality, for Halo CE:

ALPHA PICS:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/0screenshot00.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/7screenshot00.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/2screenshot00.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/1screenshot00.jpg

It took me a couple days, but I got the layout down. There are differences from the Marathon version, of course, but I did what I could to keep the flow intact while making it Halo-friendly. One thing I had to add was verticality - there essentially isn't any in Marathon.

Here's a top-view comparison:

Marathon:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/AlephOne2012-04-2123-44-19-94-1.jpg

Halo:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/0screenshot00-1.jpg

Now, before anyone starts saying "it looks bland" or "I don't like it" or "I don't like you," keep in mind that's it's still relatively early to do an art-pass. I haven't tested it yet and am still toying with weapon spawns and such, so before I spend time doing a little art-pass I want to make sure it plays well and that I won't have to make any major changes to the core geometry of the map.

Which brings me to my next point: I'm renting a dedicated server and am down to playtest if there's enough interest.


So, thoughts?

[Ki11a_FTW]

Welcome.

As for the map. Its got potential. If your going for the standard Halo look i reccomend taking a good look at the close quarters Halo maps (prisoner, Longest, hangemhigh).

Its looking very bland. Get some more variety in wall detail and textures.

I'm not one to say, HEY DONT POST YOUR FIRST MAP GTFO. But it honestly could use work.

Next time take a second look at your map before you think it's worth posting or sharing though, please. You could put a lot more into that.

[neuro]

this is past the DONT POST FIRST MAP point, this qualifies as post-worthy, if developped properly.

[BobtheGreatII]

Yeah it actually looks pretty good. Just needs some flavor or something going on.

[Con]

I definitely think this has good gameplay potential. You sound like you know what you're doing, so I'm not going to say "it needs this, it needs that". Best of luck with this project.

[DarkHalo003]

Marathon has the best arena multiplayer maps of any FPS I've played, in my opinion. That said, I'm positive this will turn out to be a great map gameplay wise, but as others are saying, you need aesthetics that distinguish the map from others. Gameplay can only be enjoyed if the map is played at all and aesthetics are how you get players to play it at this point in time.

[PopeAK49]

I love the layout, but you still need better use of textures. At least add some metal strips to the edges of the walls and floors and I gurantee it will look much more appealing. You don't have to change anything architecturally, but having some well placed textures will compliment the gameplay.

[Lateksi]

It looks very fun! Keep working on it, add details later :)

[stunt_man]

Thanks for the feedback folks!

Sorry for the slow reply I'm in the middle of an internship and haven't had much time to check in here.

I have been adding detail to the map. Progress is slow but stead, and I'll post pics when I've got something significant to show. While I've been working on this map, I've also been working on a kind of test map, in which I've been trying to recreate some geometry from other maps from both the campaign and multiplayer. I'm really trying to duplicate Bungie's art style, I find that's what looks best in the Halo engine. I don't plan to make any custom textures, though if one of my graphic designer friends decides he's up to take a shot at it, that may change.

What I'm attempting to do is create an effective workflow where I don't have to do much backtracking, so yes, the pics I posted show a very bland and basic map. This is because I want to make sure it works well gameplay-wise before I start investing time in details. I'm still in the learning process so things still take a lot of time and effort. Don't worry about the final product being some half-assed, lazy 16-year-old's idea of a map. I fully intend for the gameplay and aesthetic aspects of the map to be on par with Bungie's work, even if it takes long. I'm a perfectionist and I won't be satisfied until these goals are achieved.

I realize there's a fairly high chance any maps I put out (or any maps anyone puts out, for that matter) won't get much action. I'm quite fine with that, though. I'm doing this mostly for myself - I've always wanted to create something for my favourite game of all time ;). Worst case scenario: I host it on my server and play it with a small group for a couple days and then move on.

Here's an interesting topic of discussion: since there aren't many people that bother to play "classic" custom maps, why not design small maps for 4-10 players instead of huge CTF-focused maps? If there are three people playing on a map, it's much more fun if the map is small and is designed for this sort of population. Gametypes come into it as well - I found (in Marathon, at least) that the best gametype for Duality is free-for-all King of the Hill. Of course, the map (and any other future releases) would be compatible with all gametypes, but instead of (in a sense) limiting myself to balancing a map for all the gametypes, I'd like to try building maps with specific purposes. I don't know if that makes sense

Anyway, back on topic: if anyone is interested in helping me play test, let me know here and we'll arrange a good time for it. Personally I'd rather test sooner than later, so the build we'd be playing is the same dull-ass build as was shown in the original post. I need to test flow, not eye-candy!

Cheers

[Ryx]

I'm up for it... add me on xfire / msn.
xfire: tetrisferdayz
live: i4ni_tetris@live.com

[stunt_man]

Was just working on a new style for the floors, quick progress pic:

(Don't mind the UV error on the right)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/newfloor-1.jpg

[BobtheGreatII]

Looking great keep it up!

[stunt_man]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/haloce2012-05-0523-14-36-03.jpg

Another quick progress pic.

By the way, anyone know what's causing this?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/stunt_man/duality/smoothingerror.jpg

I thought it was smoothing error, so I tried messing around with smoothing groups but it didn't seem to help...