Syria and Chem warfare, UN now investigating

[=sw=warlord]

I'm not sure who else has been following this but Syria is in neck deep at the moment as far as the UN is concerned.
Apparently the US and UK have been discussing with Russia what to do over reports of chemical weapons being used on civilians.
Just wondering if anyone has a TL'DR to explain how it's all built to this?

[neuro]

Burn the US and Israel.

edit:
Burn the UK too, fucking US-ass-buddies

[=sw=warlord]

it's the political class in the UK who seem to chum up to the US Gov, rest of the country is almost polar opposite especially after the NSA bullshit.

[rossmum]

Woohoo time for more UN-aided imperialism I can't wait!!!!

Chemical weapons suck ass but so does giving the US a fucking excuse.

[Zeph]

Keep in mind that the same guy book thumping that syria has used them is the same guy that was going nuts saying that hussein had wmds and was going to use them if we didn't step in first. There's an agenda somewhere for someone to make a profit. There are places far worse off that would benefit from american aid, but the western world is focused on the video music awards, I mean syria. Russia is saying that the west has no proof and no way to have proof and pushing their way into syria would be repeating the same mistake they did back in 2003.

tl;dr american politician who used wmd's as a threat to push a war against iraq is doing the same thing, but replacing wmds with chemical weapons and iraq with syria.


edit: oh and I forgot. The documents that "prove" the weapons have been used are classified and a state secret. You can't know about them because that would mean you know the capabilities of the nation's intelligence operations and would make you an enemy of the state.

[Patrickssj6]

germany (right now) is stepping out of this. thanks for (right now) sanity.

[Bodzilla]

Innocent untill proven guilty works for our justice system, so why not for international politics and war?

If the evidence is actually fucking there this time then lets see it before we do another thing thats incredibly fucking stupid.

[TVTyrant]

Chemical weapons aren't even that bad. The reason people have a problem with them is they're not as obvious as other acts that do similar amounts of damage.

That said, I don't like the idea of the US getting involved in this mess, and I feel bad that we will get other countries pulled into this conflict. I didn't like it when I was 11 and I don't like it now.

[Bodzilla]

so you'd say you dont loike it

[n00b1n8R]

Chemical weapons aren't even that bad. The reason people have a problem with them is they're not as obvious as other acts that do similar amounts of damage.
Chemical weapons are that bad. The reason people don't think they are is that they're not as obvious as other acts that do similar amounts of damage.

At any rate, NATO has been itching for years to get the chance to liberate the fuck out of kebab. I personally can't wait for them to invade without clear evidence from weapon inspectors again. Why wouldn't you want to piss off Russia when US-Russian relations at at a 20 year low already :downs:

All aboard the draft train, thanks Obama!

[TVTyrant]

so you'd say you dont loike it
Yes. It's a cowards weapon, just like drones and jets and long range missiles and tanks. We should all line up with muskets and flintlock rifles, just like our ancestors did.

Fuck that. Swords and shields, like my real ancestors did. The Normans were cool.

[rossmum]

it owns how syria might have used chemical weapons (maybe) and there's a lynch mob already being assembled, meanwhile the united states has been engaging in more crimes against humanity and violations of human rights than anyone can even keep count of for over half a century and nobody gives a shit

[TVTyrant]

it owns how syria might have used chemical weapons (maybe) and there's a lynch mob already being assembled, meanwhile the united states has been engaging in more crimes against humanity and violations of human rights than anyone can even keep count of for over half a century and nobody gives a shit
Yeah well, we're the good guys. No one cares that the men of Gondor went on to have a massive genocide of all Orcs and Goblins once the war was over.

[Zeph]

Yes. It's a cowards weapon, just like drones and jets and long range missiles and tanks. We should all line up with muskets and flintlock rifles, just like our ancestors did.

Fuck that. Swords and shields, like my real ancestors did. The Normans were cool.
last time america said someone used chemweps, it blamed iran. fun fact: it was actually iraq and america told them where to target.


All aboard the draft train, thanks Obama!
it might actually come to that. Russia does not want to lose access to those ports since that's their last point of ground access to that sea and china was pretty pissed that they're ignoring the UN again since that's kinda why the UN is there.

[neuro]

russia won't let this just slide.

Putin's been on a 'make russia strong again' spree, and i really think that he wouldn't shy away from open war.
he's got all of the east behind him, iran, china, japan, and i'm reasonably sure that russia would be able to make japan and china put their territorial waters dispute aside for a while.

remember, russia's been drilling with japan and china a lot lately, and they did the tank-biathlon with america and brittain a few weeks ago.
i honestly wouldnt be surprised if that was to gauge the capabilities of their tanks.

russia's gearing up, and so are it's middle-eastern allies.
first target to be wiped away: Israel.

Russia knows what's up, and they don't afraid of anything.

[Bodzilla]

it owns how syria might have used chemical weapons (maybe) and there's a lynch mob already being assembled, meanwhile the united states has been engaging in more crimes against humanity and violations of human rights than anyone can even keep count of for over half a century and nobody gives a shit
if you talk about UR crimes we'll prosecute you and send you to jail, because there's OPTIONS.

[rossmum]

russia won't let this just slide.

Putin's been on a 'make russia strong again' spree, and i really think that he wouldn't shy away from open war.
he's got all of the east behind him, iran, china, japan, and i'm reasonably sure that russia would be able to make japan and china put their territorial waters dispute aside for a while.

remember, russia's been drilling with japan and china a lot lately, and they did the tank-biathlon with america and brittain a few weeks ago.
i honestly wouldnt be surprised if that was to gauge the capabilities of their tanks.

russia's gearing up, and so are it's middle-eastern allies.
first target to be wiped away: Israel.

Russia knows what's up, and they don't afraid of anything.
too bad putin is a giant piece of shit and doing everything he can to dismantle the last vestiges of genuine soviet influence while slipping his new brand of extreme nationalism into the holes left, and most of the younger people particularly are too politically illiterate to figure it out

[Dwood]

Pyong sent me this link on steam, it's a livestream press conference, and the lady from the obama admin is an idiot.

http://live.foxnews.com/#/2553565094001

[Higuy]

^ First problem:

Fox News

Second: This is a stupidly huge mess. If anyone has any common sense, they'd know to say the FUCK out of Syria for the common good of not only their own country, but also surrounding countries as well. Russia, China, Iran, etc are not countries you'd really want to fuck with.

[n00b1n8R]

too bad putin is a giant piece of shit and doing everything he can to dismantle the last vestiges of genuine soviet influence while slipping his new brand of extreme nationalism into the holes left

and this is a bad thing?

[Tnnaas]

http://puu.sh/4dwPr.png

Article (http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2013/08/26/Russia-warns-West-against-Syria-attack-without-U-N-approval.html).

And this is off topic, but does Modacity care enough about the 2DS to make a thread about it or not?

[n00b1n8R]

2dpd

[TVTyrant]

Just read that the British house of commons voted down the measure to support the possible U.S. action in Syria

Hey Obama: Take. The. Hint.

[=sw=warlord]

There were votes for two things, both got rejected.
Now there's been a vote, The Government is somewhat bound by the vote, even during the vote there were calls for the resignation of the Prime minister.
If Obama goes ahead, i can see it costing him his post if he's not careful.

[Dwood]

If Obama goes ahead, i can see it costing him his post if he's not careful.

Possibly. But then again, he has been doing whatever he wants and getting away with it (Ben-Gazi anyone?) for a large amount of time.

I honestly see no reason that would be beneficial for any country to go to syria and fight. What would be the point? Chemical weapons? Big whoop, as stated earlier, no one even knows for sure that they are using them anyway.

[TVTyrant]

Dwood, I think WarLord meant it could cost the prime minister of England his job

[Dwood]

Dwood, I think WarLord meant it could cost the prime minister of England his job

You may be right. I guess I just got confused by the grammar. I thought "his" referred to Obama, butafter re-reading the post, I can see how it meant the P.M. of England. Ifafudafi- Help!

[Zeph]

There were votes for two things, both got rejected.
Now there's been a vote, The Government is somewhat bound by the vote, even during the vote there were calls for the resignation of the Prime minister.
If Obama goes ahead, i can see it costing him his post if he's not careful.
Cost him? What?
As President he's got the authority to take military action for a month before he's legally required to have a continuance by congress.

If this is being done purely for profitable reasons, that's plenty of time to find the dissenting politicians and journalists and stick wads of cash in both their pockets or shut them up.

You've confused Obama's nation with one that cares about reputations. He's not up for reelection and there's not even party candidates willing to comment on the election in three and a quarter years from now. America's population has entered a rhetorical medieval age where the power resides in various castle estates and the peasants are content to live day by day as long as they've got stability around them. Look at just a hundred years ago. The power was with the people since they've got the jobs that make the difference in the lives of the people they're working for. Now, there's efficiency and people aren't needed for society to continue and function. There's automation, efficiency, and forms filled out for everything. Don't like your job? Better stick with it because you can be fired and someone else can take your place for less pay in a matter of days. Don't like your job and are organized? You can strike, but you're not likely to achieve anything major. Just look at how useless the Chicago teacher strike was. Look at this New York fast food strike. They're wanting double minimum wage and one franchise owner has already said he could automate the entire place with robotics for that price.

Even if someone did come up against him, what's the worst that could happen? Impeachment isn't an option unless he's lying on his own volition and not the secret reports he's getting. War crimes isn't an option when members of the security council are close allies. There gonna be a riot in the streets of D.C. or something? Last I heard you needed people to do that and people can't do it without losing their livelihood. Social reform and revolution are lost arts that won't be coming back until the US dollar collapses on itself and people can't get food for their families. Occupy Wall Street only happened because of the sheer volume density of the population for that city. Everywhere else in the nation, it was more like a couple dozen people with cardboard sides standing on the side of the road yelling at cars for a few hours in the afternoon every weekend after they got off from work.

The past few decades have shown that the people elected into offices can get away with anything they want. The one instance that a major politician resigned from office, he got blanket pardon from the guy replacing him. That's just how the system is set up.

[PlasbianX]

I haven't read a single thing on this thread and I'm rather biased towards this but I have to ask, What gives America the right to police the world? Serious answers please; I'm not trying to start shit.

[Bodzilla]

your right, you havnt read a single thing have you.

[PenGuin1362]

Putin's been on a 'make russia strong again' spree, and i really think that he wouldn't shy away from open war.

You really think that's worth it? Russia's army is no joke and an all out war between major nations would be fucking miserable. And it would all be for nothing. Plus Putin is a prick. For what it's worth no one needs to be getting involved with Syria.

[Zeph]

I haven't read a single thing on this thread and I'm rather biased towards this but I have to ask, What gives America the right to police the world? Serious answers please; I'm not trying to start shit.
Well, in this case, international law.


The intelligence Kerry says he has is that for several days prior to the attack, the US monitored the Syrian government preparing and that the only sites that launched the attack were in government held territory. After the attack, the US supposedly intercepted phone calls where high-level government officials were worried that the UN would find out about the attack. The US also claims the lives lost in the attack were five times greater than what Doctors Without Borders has listed.

[rossmum]

and this is a bad thing?
yes it is, nationalism is the scourge of the earth and is probably second only to religion in terms of deaths caused globally throughout recorded history

[n00b1n8R]

I was refering to getting rid of commie garbage

[rossmum]

apparently you're incapable of reading; it is being replaced by something objectively bad

[TVTyrant]

objectively bad
Because everything you say is objective, and everything anyone who dissents from you says is garbage

okay God

[TVTyrant]

Like, not even saying I'm a nationalist or anything. I pretty much don't like my country, mostly because it's full of far right tards and then people who somehow think veganism will cause world peace. But to say something that caused some of the greatest scientific development of all time is objectively bad, and to that comment so ham-fistedly into a comment that involves the Soviet Union is pretty bad. Never forget, they called it the Great Patriotic War. Here in the U.S., we call it the Good War. So ultra nationalist capitalist imperialist bro!

[neuro]

You really think that's worth it? Russia's army is no joke and an all out war between major nations would be fucking miserable. And it would all be for nothing. Plus Putin is a prick. For what it's worth no one needs to be getting involved with Syria.

nah, putin's not a prick, most russians love him, because he brought russia back from the brink.
wether his methods were legal or not, most people don't care much about.

putin was exactly the man that russia needed, but at this point in time, i'm not so sure anymore.
secretly, everyone loves him for not taking shot from america though.

Syria is russia's ally, and it's really as simple as that.
They can't just turn their back on allies, because that defeats the purpose of it entirely.

Americunt knows this, and is just poking the grumpy bear that is russia with a stick, so when the bear strikes back, they can say 'he started it'

i hate every single one of you americans :)

[TVTyrant]

On the one hand, someone has to be the world police

On the other hand, why does it have to be us?

[Donut]

i hate every single one of you americans :)
Another great end to another quality post.

[=sw=warlord]

On the one hand, someone has to be the world police


Do they?
Evolution has shown that diversity enhances a species survival.

[TVTyrant]

Do they?
Evolution has shown that diversity enhances a species survival.
We're a pretty diverse country

White and black and brown yo

[PenGuin1362]

nah, putin's not a prick, most russians love him, because he brought russia back from the brink.
wether his methods were legal or not, most people don't care much about.

putin was exactly the man that russia needed, but at this point in time, i'm not so sure anymore.
secretly, everyone loves him for not taking shot from america though.

Syria is russia's ally, and it's really as simple as that.
They can't just turn their back on allies, because that defeats the purpose of it entirely.

Americunt knows this, and is just poking the grumpy bear that is russia with a stick, so when the bear strikes back, they can say 'he started it'

i hate every single one of you americans :)

He was the man needed at the time and Russian has progressed amazingly over the last 20 years. Personally I think he's overstayed his welcome now and lately he's been doing some questionable things. However, I'm not Russian so really whether I think he's good for Russia or not is completely invalid and solely based on outside articles.

[Higuy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

Anyone else read this? I thought it was pretty good tbh, even though I disagree with his idea that rebels used the chemicals (I think its possible, but you never really know for sure..). He made some pretty good points though none the less.

[Dwood]

I think Putin has his head on straight. Obama is trying to get us in there to topple assad. This isn't about chemical weapons. Never was.

[sleepy1212]

I thought it was about Obama trying to save face because someone crossed his imaginary "red line"