The phpBB Group are hypocrites?

[p0lar_bear]

I installed phpBB v3.0.B5 on the yoyorast.com boards, to supply a community center AND test the software for any bugs. Fast forward to some months later, and they're on v3.0.RC4. I go to upgrade, and they don't supply an upgrade plugin that would convert the data in a Beta 5 table to a RCx table. So, I spend a week or so making one.

I post it on their forums, and I get some praise from other users. I go to bed, wake up the next moring, run some errands, come back, and find that my release topic has been deleted. I check my PM inbox, and I got this message:


Hello,

Your topic about the Beta To RCx convertor has been removed from the MOD development forums because we dont support Beta upgrades, and we dont allow to have such kinds of MODs on the forums.

Its also not allowed following the MOD development rules, rule 7.b.:

Code changes MODs between two phpBB versions are not to be posted by general members of the phpBB community. This right is reserved specifically for the members of the phpBB Developers user group. Thank you for understanding.When you will post your update again, you will be warned.

Thanks.

Now, phpBB is released and distributed under the GNU General Public Use license, meaning that I can freely edit, copy, and redistribute the software as long as any and all copyright notices remain intact. I did just that.

Is it just me, or are they going against what the GNU GPL stands for just so they can be crybabies about unsupported beta software? I don't see why a phpBB-to-phpBB database converter must be restricted to a certain person or group of people anyway.



I replied to the PM:


Code changes MODs between two phpBB versions are not to be posted by general members of the phpBB community. This right is reserved specifically for the members of the phpBB Developers user group. Thank you for understanding.

That makes no sense. The phpBB license clearly states:


1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep intact all the notices that refer to this License and to the absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program.
...
2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above,...I don't see why developing a plugin for conversion between two versions is "reserved" for any certain group of members. The fact that phpBB Group states that they don't support BETA versions of their software is moot; they have nothing to do with my plugin, besides hosting a topic for bug reports. I'm the one providing support for the BETA version, not the phpBB Group. In addition, board rule 5a states:


5a. If the author of a Mod, style, etc. maintains their own support board (or uses someone elses board) they may direct users to that board or site for the purpose of offering support and/or updates to their Mod/s. Alternatively authors may maintain a topic here at http://www.phpbb.com (in the appropriate forum) for each item they produce, directing users to that topic where appropriate. Such topics are intended for support only and not for general promotion of non-phpBB product, sites, and so forth.Again, I'm the one providing support for the discontinued BETA version. NOT the phpBB Group.

Though your slogan is "Creating Communities," I fail to see how snuffing users who wanted to test your software on a LIVE site (which is arguably one of the best ways to find bugs in ANY software) creates a damn thing. If you're afraid that people are going to confuse my MOD for an official patch or something, perhaps you should add to your Registration T&C that magical phrase "The views expressed in this forum are those of the authors, and do not necessarily represent the views of the phpBB Group."


EDIT: He replied.

You are allowed to provide the package, but not here at phpBB.com. Not in the MOD forums because you arent a teammember, not somewhere else at the forums because phpBB.com doesnt support beta upgrades.
There is no discussion about possible.


I replied.


not somewhere else at the forums because phpBB.com doesnt support beta upgrades.
Who said they're providing support support for the BETA upgrade? This plugin is my work, therefore, I am providing support for it. Not them. Once it's finalized and released, they still don't need to supply support. If any incompatibilities arise with future versions, then either I, or another community member can and will fix it. After all, that is what phpBB and the GNU GPL are all about.

And if it's a matter of people confusing this for an official patch or something, again, I make it clear that this is a user-created MOD. Any user installs and uses a MOD at their own risk, especially pre-release builds.

EDIT2: Final reply:

That are our rules, and you need to follow them, no discussion possible. You are allowed to post it at your own forum, but not here at phpBB.com. You are allowed to give support for it at your own forum, but not here at phpBB.com.

So, in conclusion: if you show up their developers and do something that they couldn't be assed to do, you have to sit down, and shut up. Also, no disputing the rules. http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-godwin.gif

Pricks.

[Agamemnon]

"That are our rules."

:gonk:

You should have asked him if he actually knew what he was talking about.

[et_cg]

That is one hell of a bitch there.


You should have asked him if he actually knew what he was talking about.

Or if he even knows english.

[Amit]

Little bastards, you're not doing anything that violates the Terms and Regulations.

[jcap]

This is what happens when you give power to people who try to make an argument off of what they do not know anything of. He shows absolutely no understanding of their own license, rules, or even what the GNU General Public License is. :hurr:

Also, assuming he meant to say "no further discussion possible", he comes off as a complete dickfuck because he possibly realized he doesn't have a leg to stand on and doesn't want to be proven wrong. If he actually meant "no discussion possible", then he's a cock sucking motherfucker, period.

"HURR GUYS I CAN NEVER BE WRONG BECAUSE I DON'T THINK I AM AND IF YOU TRY TO TELL ME I AM YOU'RE BANNED LOL!!!1!1!1!!"

[Ki11a_FTW]

lmao, jcap.


That guy is a complete moron :epicfail:

[thehoodedsmack]

Just keep posting it, and see if they take it off again. If they do, continue taking your well justified argument to higher levels. Perhaps they'll back down once they see how completely wrong they were.

[Dr Nick]

"There is no discussion about possible."

"That are our rules..."

I'm almost sure he had no idea what you were talking about.

@Smack: People like this take WAY too much work to prove wrong, and as unfortunate as it seems, they're reproducing faster than everyone else...

[klange]

One of the many reasons why I wrote my own forum...
Would you like to amass an army, storm their capital, rape their women, and steal their cattle?

[Dr Nick]

Can I have their wallets?

[p0lar_bear]

http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=571916&hilit=

:protarget:

[thehoodedsmack]

Go get 'em, Tiger.

[Dr Nick]

:D

+rep for you!

[Agamemnon]

Damn, he locked it as I was about to post something about the previous moderator's grasp on the English language.

[Emmzee]

Here is the official word.

Any form of upgrade from Beta to RC is not supported. phpBB Provided or Community Provided. We will not support it, we will not facillitate supporting it. Having a topic here will be breaking the rules. If we break the rules for you we have to do it for everyone. They're there for a reason.

Further, Please do -not- open another topic on this subject. If you have a problem with this, please contact the Moderator Team Leader, primedomain.


Thanks.

Locked.
What an asshole.

[FRain]

IPB FTW.

[p0lar_bear]

Well, at least it wasn't a "STFD and STFU" post like that other dick kept giving me. It still bothers me that they don't want someone linking to something regarding an unsupported version on their site, but I'm too fucking worn out from the arguing and drama to further pursue this; it's their webspace, they can do what the fuck they want. Fuck it.

So, yeah, I still got the plugin, gonna go find a place to put it. I'm sure there're communities out there who want it, and would love to host it or distribute it.

phpBB3 is great, I just don't agree with the site's methods. Again, fuck 'em.

[Dr Nick]

I told you, it takes WAY too much work.

[Amit]

One of the many reasons why I wrote my own forum...
Would you like to amass an army, storm their capital, rape their women, and steal their cattle?

Don't give up, fight for your rights. Hell, I wouldn't let it go down that way. Fuck them.

[itszutak]

I was going to put a reference to fighting for your right to party here, but I'm too tired.

But seriously, with those kinds of people, it's better to just give up and move on. They'll never change, and that's final. :/

[Bad Waffle]

You see, this is why being a Wolunist is such an awesome experience. We dont put up with dickweeds like these.

[rossmum]

/hf WoL.

What cocks.

[Amit]

You see, this is why being a Wolunist is such an awesome experience. We dont put up with dickweeds like these.

LOL, that's right, if you don't get rid of em now, what the Hell will it be like in a few months? Also, did you even try contacting the head moderator yet?

[Kornman00]

I say we party bomb their lame ass forums.

[Dr Nick]

Give me a bot and I'll do it.

[p0lar_bear]

LOL, that's right, if you don't get rid of em now, what the Hell will it be like in a few months? Also, did you even try contacting the head moderator yet?

I BCC'd my first PM reply to the development team.

EDIT: I've gotten a reply from a couple of them, and this was arguably the best one:

Hi p0lar_bear,

it's perfectly legal for you to create such an update tool as our licence allows you to do so. However this is our website and it's up to us to decide what is published on it and we can decide not to allow posting of a plugin even though you are allowed to create it and publish it else where.

Our reason for not allowing you to publish it, is that we cannot guarantee the correct working of your update tool (we did not create one because the required changes are quite complex, I doubt you correctly did them all). Now people who use this tool to update to RC1 will later ask for support on problems with further updates which might be created by incorrectly updated data from Beta5.

We told people not to use Beta releases in a live environment. I have no idea why you think it's honourable to ignore our request and use it live. At least we are not going to help you with such a board neither now nor in future.

I hope you can understand why we do not want you to publish an update tool for Beta5 on our website.

naderman


Here's my reply back:


Hi p0lar_bear,

Our reason for not allowing you to publish it, is that we cannot guarantee the correct working of your update tool (we did not create one because the required changes are quite complex, I doubt you correctly did them all). Now people who use this tool to update to RC1 will later ask for support on problems with further updates which might be created by incorrectly updated data from Beta5.
I had analyzed the database structure differences between BETA 5 and RC3/4, and noted that they were negligible; just a couple data type changes (i.e. topic titles going from varchar(255) to varchar(100)) and some encoding (i.e. utf8_bin to utf8_unicode_ci). My RC2 version of the plugin essentially copies over most of the tables from the old database, exceptions being styles, logs (differences in the language files prompted me to drop it entirely), search-related data, and language packs. Possibly the only thing I can see wrong with it right now is that it doesn't process any of the data with a functions_.php file. I've converted my board with it, and no problems have arisen... yet.


We told people not to use Beta releases in a live environment. I have no idea why you think it's honourable to ignore our request and use it live. At least we are not going to help you with such a board neither now nor in future.
Experience has taught me that most bugs only surface when the software is being used in its best form. I've created and tested many mods for video games, and I'll tell you, bugs are harder to find in closed testing sessions; most bugs pop up during public betas and post-release versions. Nothing popped up with your board [un]fortunately.


I hope you can understand why we do not want you to publish an update tool for Beta5 on our website.
This is by far, the most intelligent explanation... hell, the ONLY explanation I've gotten about why your policies are like that. Instead of the empty "thanks" I threw at that last guy, I will sincerely thank you for going out of your way to explain the situation instead of telling me to shut up and blindly follow the rules.

Thank you for your time, I really, truly appreciate it. If you'd like to analyze my code quickly and tell me simply if I'm doing it right/wrong, or if it will or will not cause problems in the future, the plugin is located at http://yoyorast.com/convert_phpbb30B5.zip. If you absolutely don't want to look at it, no way, no how, uh-uh, I understand. :)

I also apologize if my actions seemed unprofessional. I just wish I had gotten this explanation the first time around.

FINALLY! SOMEONE TELLS ME WHY! THANK YOU, BABY JESUS!

[Emmzee]

I say we party bomb their lame ass forums.
I could DOS attack them if you want.

[p0lar_bear]

I could DOS attack them if you want.

Don't. Bombing a whole forum over two idiot moderators isn't worth it.

Besides, I feel that the issue is resolved; I've been presented with a reason that makes sense.

[Emmzee]

Don't. Bombing a whole forum over two idiot moderators isn't worth it.
Fine. Your loss.

[Kornman00]

Don't. Bombing a whole forum over two idiot moderators isn't worth it.

Besides, I feel that the issue is resolved; I've been presented with a reason that makes sense.
eye r stupid :downs:
problem solved.

Commence the bombing Emmzee

[Amit]

LOL, I call first dibs on the ad carpet bombing!