Video card blues

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

A couple of things.

1. I don't know a whole lot about video cards but I want to learn as much as I can since I'm looking for a computer. Is there a site that tells you how good all the different nVidia cards are? And after I'm familiar inside and out with nVidia, I would want to learn how good all the ATI cards are, cuz I know absolutely nothing about any of ATI's cards :D I remember a long time ago, buckshot posted a thread that listed all of these graphics cards and told how good each one would be able to play H2V.

2. I'm looking for a computer. My top priority is a good graphics card, because I'll mostly use it for gaming. I would love to go out to the store right now and get into some serious gaming and buy a ton of games, but the only thing holding me back from doing that is my graphics card. My graphics card is an integrated Intel chip, and it sucks many balls.

Here are my min. requirements:
Must be a laptop. No exception.
Must not be too heavy (no more than, idk, 10 lbs or so.)
Must be as cheap as possible. Right now I'm only dreaming, because I don't have a job yet, but I need to find out what computers are the best. mb $1000-$1800 price range.
At least a 15" screen with a resolution higher than 1280x800
At least a dual core processor, and at least 2.0 GHz.
At least Vista Home Premium, sadly, so I can play H2V and other games for windows like GoW if my parents ever let me buy it. The speed and FPS sacrifice will probably be worth it.
At least 2GB RAM.
At least 160GB HDD, preferably 5400 RPM's so my battery doesn't drop dead (thanks Mr. Buckshot for reminding me.)
Pretty things like webcams, mics, fingerprint readers and HD outputs are cool but not completely necessary.
GRAPHICS-something that owns. Something that will last me a few years because I can't upgrade :) Something that will be able to play H2V on at least medium-high settings with at least 1280x800 res, and minimal lag. And almost completely necessary that it's DX10, because I'll want to play those games in the future without my computer falling to its knees. In fact, Crysis looks pretty cool, I might want to play that on medium settings sometime. Probably at least 512 MB of dedicated memory.That's why I was thinking of getting this-http://www.ibuypower.com/ibp/store/configurator.aspx?mid=251 configured with all my specs above, and it's only about 1200 bucks. Apparently it's got a 8600 GT with 512 MB and DX10, but I was skeptical about this card because other sites I looked up said it was a mid-range card :/ Then again, they were using the 256MB version.

(BTW, does the absence of the 8600M GT make it a desktop card?!)



So what do you guys think? Is the 8600GT good? Can it handle H2V as described above or even Crysis? BTW I'm posting here because people here probably have more computer savvy then people at HM, and besides I'm in the RC club there (supposed to be removed today, but they haven't done it yet.)

[jahrain]

You can search the graphics card benchmarks online to compare how well the perform compared to others. Right now, the best cards out there are the 8800s. But they will cost anywhere from $300 - $550 depending on the model. The 8800GT is the best deal out there right now, but you will have little luck finding one in stock. 8800GTX, and the 8800GTS are the next best options.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

I don't think benchmarks are good for figuring out just if a card runs certain games well. I have a list of mobile graphics cards and their benchmarks but it really doesn't help much. I guess what I'm really asking is show me a site where it lets you have a good card and maintains a decent price.

[Mr Buckshot]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220163

2.00Ghz T7300 Core 2 Duo, 1 GB RAM, and a Geforce 8600M GS. It has a 15" screen, a 160 GB 5400 rpm hard drive, and built-in Bluetooth! Very good bang for the buck. I am afraid I could not find one with 2 GB of RAM, but you can buy a second gig yourself and add it in - upgrading RAM will not void warranty as notebooks are designed to have the RAM slots be easily accessible. In fact it might be cheaper to buy the notebook with 1 GB of RAM, then buy another 1 GB separately.

Also Omega, I can't understand why you want a 7200rpm hard drive so much. It'll be a major battery drainer. And in games, higher HDD rpm will not improve performance - if it does, it's too small to be worth the price (a 160 GB 7200rpm laptop drive can cost at least $50 more than a 5400rpm version). The game will LOAD a little faster, but once it starts running, that extra rpm won't help. However, if you are a multitasker, I guess a 7200rpm is good since the applications load faster.

I wouldn't recommend iBuyPower or Cyberpower as their customer ratings aren't too high. Go for Asus, MSI, or Sager if you can.

And no, it's just a typo - if they say a laptop has a Geforce 8600 GT, it's still an 8600M GT. If you don't believe me, just look at the physical size of a desktop graphics card - there is no way it'll fit into a laptop.

Unless your definition of a laptop is literally a "movable computer," try to avoid the 17" notebooks. While their components can be super high end (those won't FIT into 15" notebooks), they have poor battery life and are heavy, with abnormally large AC adapters. Such laptops barely qualify as laptops at all.

Oh yeah the Geforce 8600M GS, 8600M GT, and ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2600 are the best video cards you can find in the 14"-15" class. They will run H2V very well at 1280x800 (if that's the resolution you select). They can also run later games in DX10 mode on nice settings.

As for Windows Vista, most brand-new laptops will only come with Windows Vista, except for business-class laptops from Dell and maybe HP/Compaq and Lenovo.


You can search the graphics card benchmarks online to compare how well the perform compared to others. Right now, the best cards out there are the 8800s. But they will cost anywhere from $300 - $550 depending on the model. The 8800GT is the best deal out there right now, but you will have little luck finding one in stock. 8800GTX, and the 8800GTS are the next best options.

He wants a laptop. Your information was helpful but invalid.

[paladin]

Two words, Vaio.

[SnaFuBAR]

Two words, Vaio.

l2count gb2kindergarten :XD:

sony=two words, and that is "price gouging"

[TPE]

The best your going to get in a laptop right now is a 8700M. Dell and HP offers a laptop with SLI 8700M's for a lol-huge price. I've Heard of Ibuypower but it sounds like a alien-ware type of computer company.


Here is a good price for a good gaming laptop (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DYCWM90&s=dhs)

Honestly dell looks like they have the best laptops at the moment (2-5 years ago they were failure. Now they don't look too bad)

[Mr Buckshot]

Yeah, the Dell Inspiron 1520 is the best-valued notebook out there, and the problems aren't so great now. For around $1500 you can get 2 GB RAM, a T7300 C2D, a Geforce 8600M GT, a 2-MP webcam, and internal Bluetooth.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

@Buckshot-Thanks, but that card only has 256MB of memory, and I'll probably need 512 for the smallest amount of lag in games (and I doubt I'd be able to play later games in DX10 nicely with a mid-range 256MB card (Crysis, hint hint, that will punish my PC)). You're right about the HDD, though. I never considered the battery when looking at the hard drives.

@TPE-yeah, I didn't put SLI there because the only things I'd find that in is maybe expensive Dells and Alienwares, and almost never in a 15-inch. And that one you posted has an obscene price for me. I must admit it is pretty 1337 though.

@all the people who suggested Vaio's-I don't think I could handle gaming on a laptop manufactured by a company I hate so much :) Plus they are pretty pricey.


But is the 8600 really good? How much better is a 256 MB than a 512?

[klange]

8800m solves all of your problems (sort of...)
Or an 86 or an 87, but the 8800m is out now, and I've seen a laptop with it, but I couldn't help guide you towards a reasonably priced one.

[legionaire45]

The best your going to get in a laptop right now is a 8700M.
WRONG. (http://madlex.ytmnd.com/)
WRONG. (http://www.trustedreviews.com/notebooks/review/2007/11/22/Rock-Xtreme-770-T7800-8800/p1)
WRONG. (http://www.fukung.net/v/5670/CrocTakesArm.gif)

1) "High End Gaming" and "Laptop" generally dont go in the same sentence unless you include "10 minute battery life" and "will kill a cat if you drop the laptop on it" on the feature set.
2) Don't buy from ibuypower unless they are paying you to buy a laptop. EVER.

What I suggest is either something solid from HP, Toshiba or a good OEM (cheapest option) like Compal if you trust yourself enough to install a CPU or MXM module (graphics card) on your own. Aim for something with a modest GPU (8600M GT or something like that), decent CPU, whatever, but don't expect to play something like Crysis maxed out anytime soon unless you are cashing out like $5,000. At which point you have something so heavy and power hungry it might as well be a desktop.

For the most part on the 8600 series stuff it doesn't matter how much memory it has because the actual GPU will have long been overtaxed by the time that you start becoming memory limited.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

I didn't want to play crysis maxed out. Just on maybe medium to medium-low settings on 1024x768 res would be good for me as long as it doesn't lag. Could the 8600GT do that? It seems it's only 200 notches below any 8800 card :)

And why not iBuypower? What's so bad about them? That's the lowest price I've ever seen on a laptop with those desired specs.

[343guiltymc]

I didn't want to play crysis maxed out. Just on maybe medium to medium-low settings on 1024x768 res would be good for me as long as it doesn't lag. Could the 8600GT do that? It seems it's only 200 notches below any 8800 card :)

And why not iBuypower? What's so bad about them? That's the lowest price I've ever seen on a laptop with those desired specs.
IBUYPOWER, cyberpower, Velocity micro all have 26 percent faliure rates according to PC world. But for some reason Velocity micro manage to be the second most recommended computer vendor on the chart, first being Apple. :eek:

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Damn it. That sucks because I really don't see any laptops that are that good and have graphics as good as that, around that price. There are no other options! I guess I could look at some HP computers, because that's one of the manufacturers I didn't think of for gaming notebooks. I don't think almost any of their laptops have good graphics though. Someone on HM told me HP wasn't very good to trust for a gaming notebook.

EDIT: Yeah, just looked at all their notebooks. The best card I saw was a 256MB 8600M GT, and getting all the specs to the configurations that the $1000 one Buckshot posted earlier would bring its price up a lot, close to 2000 probably. Any other suggestions? Is ibuypower really THAT bad?


EDIT 2: Actually, I just looked at the newegg one, and I really should watch that and just add a gig stick or 3 to it. One guy said that he might add 3 GB of RAM, because with this type of computer you can dedicate some RAM to video memory. He also said the card is very good for overclocking, though I've never done that before and I'm not sure if I would want to cut short the life of my gfx card. But I might not even have to, cuz a different guy said he was getting 60-80 FPS in CSS, even with the 256 MB (he didn't add any RAM for video memory), so I'll definitely keep that deal in mind. Along with the extra RAM, that laptop might be as good as the ibuypower one, for the same price and with more reliability.

I just wish SSD's came in 160GB versions and didn't cost a fortune to use :( Oh well





Actually, I have a question: I was reading about it, and apparently you can Turbocache up to 1GB of video memory in addition to the 256MB you already have if you have at least 4GB RAM, but what does increasing video memory do? It won't make my games run smoother or better, will it? If it does, Turbocache FTW :p

[legionaire45]

Damn it. That sucks because I really don't see any laptops that are that good and have graphics as good as that, around that price. There are no other options! I guess I could look at some HP computers, because that's one of the manufacturers I didn't think of for gaming notebooks. I don't think almost any of their laptops have good graphics though. Someone on HM told me HP wasn't very good to trust for a gaming notebook.

EDIT: Yeah, just looked at all their notebooks. The best card I saw was a 256MB 8600M GT, and getting all the specs to the configurations that the $1000 one Buckshot posted earlier would bring its price up a lot, close to 2000 probably. Any other suggestions? Is ibuypower really THAT bad?


EDIT 2: Actually, I just looked at the newegg one, and I really should watch that and just add a gig stick or 3 to it. One guy said that he might add 3 GB of RAM, because with this type of computer you can dedicate some RAM to video memory. He also said the card is very good for overclocking, though I've never done that before and I'm not sure if I would want to cut short the life of my gfx card. But I might not even have to, cuz a different guy said he was getting 60-80 FPS in CSS, even with the 256 MB (he didn't add any RAM for video memory), so I'll definitely keep that deal in mind. Along with the extra RAM, that laptop might be as good as the ibuypower one, for the same price and with more reliability.

I just wish SSD's came in 160GB versions and didn't cost a fortune to use :( Oh well





Actually, I have a question: I was reading about it, and apparently you can Turbocache up to 1GB of video memory in addition to the 256MB you already have if you have at least 4GB RAM, but what does increasing video memory do? It won't make my games run smoother or better, will it? If it does, Turbocache FTW :p
Turbocache FTL.

Avoid integrated graphics like the plague, mainly Intel's stuff but all of it is generally garbage. The 8600 GT or the HD2600 should be a fine notebook GPU, just avoid anything below it if you can and especially avoid integrated.

If you want to go Vista I would recommend at least 4 gigs of RAM, especially considering how cheap DD2 is at the moment.

At the same time, the reason I say iBuyPower sucks is because I have had to go over to my friend's house every few months to fix something that has prematurely failed on his iBuyPower PC. Hell, even before that the first unit they sent to him was fucked up and wouldn't boot. Basically, they are trash to be avoided. It will cost you more in the long run to ship the carcasses back to them anyway.

[Mr Buckshot]

Even midrange Nvidia video cards have used Turbocache in laptops. My friend has a Geforce Go 7600 and it steals 256 MB from his 2 GB of RAM to bring the total to 512 MB of video memory. However Turbocache can be disabled within the BIOS unless the card is integrated.

Relax legionaire, I already told Omega previously about how ANY sort of integrated video card is complete shit for gaming. Sure, these video cards will out-perform the Geforce 2's we had 6 years ago, but that's it.

Also I would rather recommend DELL over iBuypower because of reliability.

Oh yeah about the RAM thing - if you are buying a pre-configured laptop like the one from newegg that I recommended, then you're almost always going to see only 1 GB of RAM. If you order from Dell online, and customize your laptop, then you'll be allowed to select 2 GB.

My recommendation still stands with that $1189 Asus F3 laptop from Newegg. It not only has good specs, but it also has 4 USB ports, a 1.3MP webcam with lighting, built-in Bluetooth, dual layer DVD burner, and 8-in-1 card reader. My laptop cost $1600 when I bought it from Cyberpower (which I regret doing), and it didn't even have a webcam or Bluetooth.

[Mr Buckshot]

Oh yeah double post, but this is a bit separate:

Unless you actually want the Macintosh OS, NEVER buy a Macbook Pro. They have good specs and can run Windows flawlessly through boot camp, but they are horrendously overpriced - many Windows laptops have the same specs and the same features for at least $300 less (the starting price of a Macbook Pro is $2000 USD). The standard Macbook non-Pro only has integrated video (Intel GMA) so it won't do. The Pro has a Geforce 8600M GT, but with its not-so-stellar iSight, lack of Bluetooth, only ExpressCard 34, only 2 USB ports, etc, it's not worth it at all. Apple makes cosmetically beautiful products, but I'd rather buy a not-as-pretty device that offers the same features, if not more, for a lower price.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Ok, so no Macbook Pros, and no Turbocache.

But how well will that 256MB 8600M GS be able to play Crysis? If it can play it decently, I'm fine (because I want to be able to play demanding games OK in 3 years). Just give me an estimate of how much lag and FPS I might get if I play it on <insert settings here>.

[343guiltymc]

Ok, so no Macbook Pros, and no Turbocache.

But how well will that 256MB 8600M GS be able to play Crysis? If it can play it decently, I'm fine (because I want to be able to play demanding games OK in 3 years). Just give me an estimate of how much lag and FPS I might get if I play it on <insert settings here>.
Crysis is a pretty demanding game, a 8600 M GS will play it somewhere in the abyss of medium settings 1078x768 res.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

With little or no lag? :3

[343guiltymc]

That may depend on the level, some levels kill your FPS more than others.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Oh. So medium settings, 1024x768 res, and on a pretty demanding level, how many FPS you think I'd get?

[Mr Buckshot]

I don't have Crysis yet so I don't know, but my friend has a desktop Geforce 8600 GT and he gets more than 30 fps most of the time at such settings...the 8600M GS, as a laptop card, should be expected to perform slower but not much.

By the way, here's a laptop I found for you for $979 USD (windows XP):

Dell Vostro 1500 (go to the dell USA site, go to small business, then find the Vostro 1500). For less than $1000, you can get a Core 2 Duo T7250 @2.00Ghz, 2 GB DDR2 RAM, a 15.4" 1280x800 screen with a 2-MP webcam, internal wifi/bluetooth, a 256 MB Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT (which is faster than the GS), 120 GB 5400rpm hard drive (160 GB requires another $30 I think). The warranty and services were set at the default level, so if you want extended warranty, you'll have to pay more. Oh, and did I mention a long-life 9-cell battery? Going with the 6 cell will shave $30 off the cost I think.

It's a dell, but Dell's improving, and this Vostro 1500 is hard to beat. It comes with Windows XP, but you can easily upgrade to Vista once the OS becomes more stable (I have Vista, and I wouldn't recommend using it as the primary OS of choice until the service pack is out). Its Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT cannot use its DX10 mode when on XP, but it can perform very well in DX9 too.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6182806/p-5.html
Buckshot is right, you can play it at acceptable frame rates in 1078x768.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Eh... There's got to be some catch or something if it's in the small business section. Anyway, if you can't even use DX10 on XP, I won't bother, because DX10 games are pretty much all I'd buy. Plus I'd want to buy H2V, because I've never played through the campaign because I don't have an Xbox.

Vista isn't that bad, especially if you have enough power. But I guess since I could never afford a compy even $1000 right now, I'll have to see what computer manufacturers have in store in the years to come when I get that kind of money.

But I just remembered, what about my first question? On my first post? About learning about the different kinds of Nvidia and ATI cards. I want to be able to gauge how good a computer is when I see any given graphics card that it comes with.

EDIT: Oh, didn't see your post. Yeah, 1024x768 on medium settings with a 8600GT gets 30FPS. Cool.

[demonmaster3k]

idunno my experiences with laptops tell me they don't really pack a punch
you'll want anything over $1000 because anything below that will have a shitty ass integraded card.

top brands on the laptop scale (please do correct me if i'm wrong)
apple (hate their os but their comps are pretty good)
voodo/alienware (alienware can be considered dell cos dell bought it up)
toshiba
dell (xps, inspirons are shitty laptops)
asus
HP(i like their comps better than dell, but dell is more common)
gateway
acer
(gateway and acer are both the crappiest manufacturers on the market... they're budget pcs)

but why a laptop? you can get desktop parts way cheaper and they're easier to upgrade.
on top of that you can build your own desktop and not get all that crappy bloatware that manufacturers pack into the machine.


service pack my ass vista's stabilized due to upgrades it's in much better shape than it was in januarary. service packs aren't the concrete foundation they're just the icing on top of the cake. if anything the reason why there's any compatibility problems is because xp and vista use entirely different libraries and businesses are a little slow to take to the os upgrade. put vista on a clean partition and its a fine platform. my only suggestion is to go into your compatibilty tab before running a game and set it so that game turns off aero because aero will decrease preformance.
also, most recent gaming systems are calling for an intel xeon (quad-core) or and amd phenom(true quad-core), 4gb ddr3 ram, 160+GB SATA HDD, dual directx10 cards-nvidia dx10 8 series SLIC or ATI directx10 3500HD Crossfire, 108mbps WLAN card

if you do change your mind on the laptop, you can get specially bundled computers AMD spider (comes with amd phenom and ati 3000+ series) for ~$800 at ibuypower.com (for more information the site's at amd.com/spider i think)

[Patrickssj6]

IBM is the best laptop manufacture out there. Not for gaming though.

0m3g4Muff1n987 (http://www.h2vista.net/forums/member.php?u=1471), you are giving us a hard time...why? Because..

1. You want a Laptop (cost more than Desktops)
2. You want Vista (requires more system power --> more money)
3. You want to play Crysis at a reasonable framerate (demanding game --> demanding Laptop --> more money)

4. You don't want to spent 1000$ for a Laptop.

See the catch?

[Mr Buckshot]

Omega obviously has good reasons for wanting a laptop. I myself plan to do away with my desktop if I graduate to study abroad - when I go to some prestige U.S. university, a laptop will be very appreciated. And you can't pack a whole desktop computer into a simple carrying case in less than 2 minutes. And best of all, you can't take a desktop into the crapper with you when you need to do work or get that last whatever in your game. Even Fireball from EP, who was once against laptops, decided to get a gaming laptop because in the army, he would move around so much that a desktop would be too inconvenient.

As an owner of both a desktop and a gaming laptop, I fully understand why some people will need a laptop over a desktop.

And Omega, H2V will run on windows XP with the wowloader hack - you just can't play multiplayer, and also H2V doesn't even use DX-NINE properly so don't expect DX10 to make it look good.

Also, that $979 dell I configured will not last long. Laptops will almost always cost at least $1000 when you want to have them gaming-capable. When I paid $1600 for mine back in early 2006, that was already considered very good since most other laptops cost $2000+ back then.

And finally, that Dell Vostro 1500 has excellent reviews. There are no catches to it being a business laptop, besides the fact that it has a bulkier and tougher build than home laptops.

Here's a good laptop that has good power for $999:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152029

Unfortunately, its card is only DX9c (Geforce Go 7600, which is a laptop version of my desktop card). You can easily find laptops with good CPUs and DX9c cards for even under $800, but for DX10, that Dell may be your only chance.

[343guiltymc]

Holy fuck you wanna run DX10 games on a laptop for 1000 dollars? You must be crazy.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Not 1000. I think I'll keep my eye on that one newegg Asus one buckshot posted, and wait and see what technology is available when I can gather up $1000+.

But my first question from my first post. I want to learn about all the different nvidia and ATI cards. Any sites in mind? I need like a list that could tell me how good certain cards perform. And I can "read" nvidia cards-like if I see that a computer has a Geforce FX 5200, I'll know it sucks, but if it's got an 8800 Ultra it owns. But I can't tell the difference between, like, an ATI X1950 or 2000 HD or anything. I have no idea how they perform. So I need some site to educate meh.

[Mr Buckshot]

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Comparison-of-Grafic-Cards.130.0.html

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3056&guide=Graphics+Card+Guide+2006

The second link is more newbie-friendly but doesn't cover DX10 cards.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Hm, thanks. Notebookcheck is always pretty good.

As a side note, look at this mo fo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114384

1500 bucks for an 8700GT with 256MB, plus an HD-DVD drive, HDMI output and 240GB of HD space. Although it is almost 10 lbs :(

[Mr Buckshot]

It's a 17" desktop replacement laptop, so you will want to think very carefully before buying such a bulky machine, despite its good price. And contrary to popular belief, the 8700 is not the most powerful notebook card as it is a higher-clocked 8600. It is the most powerful notebook card that can display DX10, but the Geforce Go 7950 GTX is actually far superior when rendering in DX9, so the Go 7950 GTX is (for now) the true king of laptop gaming. A Geforce 8800 M is coming out soon (it's a stripped-down version of the early desktop GTS), and then that's when the 7950 loses its place.

By the way, HDMI output is not necessary if you don't have an HDTV. A VGA-out port is more than enough since it can push 1920x1200 with no issues.

[343guiltymc]

It's a 17" desktop replacement laptop, so you will want to think very carefully before buying such a bulky machine, despite its good price. And contrary to popular belief, the 8700 is not the most powerful notebook card as it is a higher-clocked 8600. It is the most powerful notebook card that can display DX10, but the Geforce Go 7950 GTX is actually far superior when rendering in DX9, so the Go 7950 GTX is (for now) the true king of laptop gaming. A Geforce 8800 M is coming out soon (it's a stripped-down version of the early desktop GTS), and then that's when the 7950 loses its place.

By the way, HDMI output is not necessary if you don't have an HDTV. A VGA-out port is more than enough since it can push 1920x1200 with no issues.
The only place that I've seen who equip their laptops with 7950 GO is alienware. :eyesroll:

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Yeah, I've never seen those cards, and Alienware would burn a hole in my wallet even if I had the money.

[343guiltymc]

Well laptops are expansive if you want one for gaming, it's just fact. Why was the reason you want a laptop anyways?

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Well, I love taking it for a crap with me while I browse pr0n (lol not really) and the video ministry in our church is getting off to a start, so I'll need a portable somethin with a good graphics card. Desktop is just not what I need.

[Mr Buckshot]

Same here, I do use my laptop almost every time I sit on the crapper, and in IB, I have to take a laptop of my own to school very frequently to give presentations. Also, when I go on vacation, a laptop is absolutely essential for me.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Oh yeah, that's right. When I get to a school when I can use my laptop in class, it'll prove invaluble. I type much faster than I write so taking notes, assignments, all that will be so much easier and way easier to manage than a folder full of papers as opposed to organized files on my computer.

Buckshot, IB? Is that the high school International Backlariot (can't spell it) program?

[Mr Buckshot]

Yes, IB stands for International Baccalaureate. It's some prestigious special program for grades 11 and 12. It means I suffer as much as, if not more than, any Americans who are in AP courses.

Anyway, are you going for the Asus F3 laptop on newegg? It offers many built-in features for a good price. While stuff like Bluetooth connectivity and a webcam can be bought separately (I have a Bluetooth USB adapter that I keep mistaking for my flash drive), they occupy USB ports and aren't so seamless and pretty. The 1 GB of RAM is the only thing hurting the Asus laptop, but you can always keep an eye out for good prices and buy another 1 GB separately. The video card is probably the best part of the deal, offering the power of a Geforce 8600 for a price lower than that of most competitors except the Dell Vostro 1500 (but to get the price that low in the Dell, you need windows XP).

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

Are you serious? My mom's wanting me to go into IB next year, and I'm in 8th. So apparently it's for all of high school. Plus, it's for advanced people, like, smarter than AP. :/ I don't know what you have going on over there but it's like the opposite here.

Oh and yeah, I'm keeping my eye on that Asus. Such a good deal. The thing is, by the time I have the money to buy a new compy, technology will have advanced some, and there'll probably be like a geforce 9000 series in laptops or something. Soo...

[343guiltymc]

Are you serious? My mom's wanting me to go into IB next year, and I'm in 8th. So apparently it's for all of high school. Plus, it's for advanced people, like, smarter than AP. :/ I don't know what you have going on over there but it's like the opposite here.

Oh and yeah, I'm keeping my eye on that Asus. Such a good deal. The thing is, by the time I have the money to buy a new compy, technology will have advanced some, and there'll probably be like a geforce 9000 series in laptops or something. Soo...
Laptops with high end video cards tend to have low battery life, and since you said you're taking it somewhere, that can be a problem.

[0m3g4Muff1n987]

I'll never need a lot of battery life, 2 hours is good enough for me. I'll probably have a spare battery or a car charger or... idk, something. I'm willing to sacrifice some juice for an awesome gaming experience.

[Mr Buckshot]

Are you serious? My mom's wanting me to go into IB next year, and I'm in 8th. So apparently it's for all of high school. Plus, it's for advanced people, like, smarter than AP. :/ I don't know what you have going on over there but it's like the opposite here.

Oh and yeah, I'm keeping my eye on that Asus. Such a good deal. The thing is, by the time I have the money to buy a new compy, technology will have advanced some, and there'll probably be like a geforce 9000 series in laptops or something. Soo...

The real IB Diploma is only for grades 11 and 12. The IB for grades 8 and 9 is formally known as "Middle Years," and some schools have a "mini IB" dubbed as Pre-IB for 10th grade (which I was in last year). So the IB that you might enter in 9th grade is not actually the IB that us seniors/juniors are exploding about. But Middle Years is still challenging and is great preparation for the actual IB diploma.

Don't worry buddy, no one can be "future-proof." It's impossible. But new video cards come out much faster than games that require them to run smoothly. Some video cards have managed to hold up for more than 3 years, which is a great achievement. Such "legendary" cards would be the Radeon 9800 Pro, the Geforce 4 Ti series, and the Geforce 6600. The Geforce 4 Ti is now officially old-school, but the 6600 and the 9800 Pro continue to hold up even today (though if you consider games that really need DX9c sm3.0m then the 9800 Pro is also old-school).

In other words, if you pick the Asus, the Geforce 8600M GS will become a bit dated soon, but that doesn't mean it won't give you a good gaming experience. It'll actually take a long time before the 8600M becomes truly inadequate for high-end gaming.

As for battery life...having powerful components doesn't necessarily mean shitty battery life, thanks to a tool known as the power saver configurator that comes with all laptops. Basically, with this tool you can tweak the settings that the laptop runs at on battery - for example, if you switch to battery mode, the CPU will underclock itself and the screen brightness lowers, etc, depending on your settings. I have a 9-cell battery and I get 1.75 hours when playing high-end 3D games, and 4-5 hours when I'm doing normal work. However, if I use the disc drive, I get 1.5 hours max (for gaming, I use no-CD patches so I don't have to waste battery by running a game from a CD).

For example, if I'm using my laptop on battery mode but I'm just typing up a school report, I set the power saver to basically turn my laptop into a very low-end computer. The graphics card is especially underclocked since I don't need its power at that moment. But once I plug into AC, the power saver will deactivate, and every component goes back to maximum speed.

And who knows, in the near future, our laptop batteries could be hydrogen fuel cells.