wtf?

[Rob Oplawar]

Wait, mz got permabant? when did this happen?? aahh wtf I practically live on these forums, how can I manage to be so oblivious?!



I liked Emmzee. I also liked Aggy (even though he was just Atty in disguise). Why exactly have they been permanently banned?

Let me preface this by saying I have never received an infraction of any sort.

I don't like the way these forums are run. I can't put my finger on it, but something about the fact that Emmzee and Aggy got permanently banned while other members who I feel did deserve it are still around just doesn't sit well with me. But it could be entirely my opinion and me sticking with the people I like and against the people I don't regardless of the rules. But then again, there have been complaints about the way the mods have been working for ages.

Idk, it's not my site, and they're not my rules, and the mods are obviously people TheGhost trusts to do the job, and TheGhost and the admins and mods he chose have every right to run this site the way they see fit.

Now look, I don't want this thread to be about starting anything, or ranting or flaming or bitching, or about being melodramatic, or even about me threatening to leave because I don't like it here (even though that's what it started as), because the truth is, I really do like it here, and I would like to stay here.

What I want to do is to publicly ask about my grievances as well as anyone else's. The admins have a right to run the site the way they want to, and I assume they want the site to generate hits and be popular and all that jazz, and to do that people have to like the site, and so I hope they'll accept this offer of a public discussion of, for lack of a better term, "what goes on around here".

The post up till now has been a bit of an unjustified (albeit blunted) rant, and I would rewrite it except I'd like the admins to see that I get frustrated from time to time, and it's those momentary spouts of frustration that drive people away, I think. It nearly worked on me =P

Anyway, enough flinging poo and pointing fingers. If the admins will approve I'd like to talk to them (publicly, being the important aspect here) about how the infractions and bannings are supposed to work in theory and how they really do work in practice.

And if not, hell, I haven't been around long- less than a year ago I was just meekly posting anonymous questions now and again- and I'm also an arrogant anti-social asshole and I'm always (and unjustifiably) very sure I'm right and everyone else is wrong, and I've made my share of stupid posts and flames and shit that should have received infractions but didn't. So by all means if I've overstepped my bounds, give me an infraction, lock the thread and/or ban me- at least that'll give me more insight into how these bans work. But yeah, there it is- can I talk to you not in private?

[Tweek]

rob, go to http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7605

im tempted to say "shut up and fling poo with the rest of us!" but that'd propably be a bad idea in this case.
i know this is also directed at me, but i'm tweek, and just tweek, and we all know it.

i seriously want to follow this discussion now, but it's 3 AM, so i'm out.
happy posting!

[thehoodedsmack]

Wow. I never knew you were like that, Rob.

[Aerowyn]

Aggy =/= Atty. D: FYI.

[thehoodedsmack]

I can honestly say, this is the first time I've ever been abused over the internet. I don't mind the way the forums are run, in fact, I enjoy the way people get away with things around here. I'm glad I've made enough of a presence that I can occasionally get away with stuff. But to call me an "anti-social asshole" is what strikes me. I never had anything against you, Rob, and that just blows me away that you could make fun of someone you've never met, with no idea what they're like. My thread was not meant to be taken as litterally as it was. The "I Love Lucy" joke in the thread name should have been an indicator. I just wanted to know what got those people banned. I wasn't here to witness it. All you've done tonight, Rob, is lose one man's respect.

Oh. But this thread was about you, wasn't it.

[Rob Oplawar]

whoa whoa whoa, I meant that to be taken literally. I am an asshole. I never said anything about you. I was so riled up, in fact, that I didn't notice your thread until Tweek liked me.

edit: wait, if I'm asserting that I'm an asshole, why am I trying to defend myself to sound like less of one? Well, because I don't want to be, I guess.

ee: anyway, it's not about me or you. It's about the mods and admins. I want to speak to them, and I want everyone else to speak to them, and I want to release some of this pent up tension everyone's been sensing between them and the admins/mods.

[thehoodedsmack]

I suppose that's the beauty of writing. That sarcasm can never be truly detected. But you, and I, and everyone who reads your post knows that it's there. Because that's the way things work around here. And as much as I usually enjoy the show, I'm the unfortunate one on tonight's cutting board.

[Con]

IMO, all the problems on this site would be gone if people didn't take things so seriously. Try to view and do things from a different perspective, and let's not overstep our bounds for the purpose of drama, entertainment, or our reputation.

[CodeBrain]

Rob, Ive been feeling tension within members and admins/mods too. It might be how things have changed recently (the hackers, forums upgraded, internet loss, and others) Mostly no one cares for anyone on the internet, however, there are some people that do...

That, would be your own journey to find.

:)

[PenGuin1362]

So i was attacked by this crazy fuckin chupacabra today....

[Rob Oplawar]

No drama, and no sarcasm. I never use sarcasm on the internet precisely because you can never tell if it's there or not.

Where are the mods and admins? I am waiting. Although I guess I can give them some time to formulate their response. Also I guess it's possible that unlike me they have lives and cannot be expected to instantly recognize a trouble thread. So I'll wait a few hours. I've got the time.

e: yes I do see Aggy's name down there. :tinfoil: I was just talking to Aggy, and I'll tell you what I told him- I love this community, and nearly every member on these forums. It feels like a second family to me. And I can't stand to see such tension between the kids and the parents in my family. But maybe kids will be kids, and we'll always be annoyed at the seemingly arbitrary rules and punishments our parents dish out on us, but in the end our parents are doing it just because they love us.
Funny what a metaphor can do to your perception, but even so, I hate when things are abstracted into metaphors, because oftentimes the metaphor doesn't quite fit, and assumptions about the metaphor do not apply to what the metaphor describes.

[CodeBrain]

Open your eyes. TheGhost is here.

[Rob Oplawar]

Sigh. Anger and frustration come and go so quickly. I'll go take a walk now, for the next day or so, and when I come back I'd like to see the mods/admins at least acknowledge this thread.

I have empathy for TheGhost because I get the impression he's busy with many other things and just hosts this site while others run it. Regardless, Ghost, I'd like to hear what you have to say about all this.


And before I run off in a huff I wanna mention that the reason I'm suddenly so forward with this is because of that Lambo. I'm usually meek and mild and try my very best to be unoffensive. Well no more. Here I am, deal with it, you either like me or you don't. It's about time I see where I stand anyway.

[Rob Oplawar]

Ok, one more thing before I go. I post the following on behalf of Agamemnon:



Agamemnon
Because InnerGoat obviously wasn't one. I locked the thread in the tech board for a reason on my last post, and he opened it back up. That is an absolute disgrace.

Jcap
So because of some dumb thing one person does, you end up flipping and turning everything upside down? It wasn't even an insult, but the same shit we have been pulling on each other from the start. I fail to see how this comes back to me, or why Pat even came in and tried to put the burden on me.

Agamemnon
Probably because it was time to come out and start speaking the truth about the place. And it's completely different when you have technotwat doc reopening threads and moving them just so he can feed the fire. Snaf was the only one who acted like a human being on the matter and everyone else took advantage of Internet anonymity to show their true colors. So after I figured you had some fool in a moderation position that it was time to actually say something publicly instead of privately, like I always had been.

Jcap
You speak as if you we never part of what drove the list. What fire was he feeding? Until now, you never showed anything. I never even participated with the an hero list, as you can see from the various threads in this forum.

Agamemnon
Yeah, that's just the thing. You didn't participate in trying to clean up your own forum. Ross and others were doing your job.

Jcap
I really don't understand at all right now. You are exposing the truth that would make you and everyone else look bad for the criticisms towards those members, and it would also make me look bad for allowing it to go on and not outright ban them?

They weren't doing my job. They weren't doing anything but creating a record of all the members who pissed him off at some time. I would be looked on terribly if I ended up banning everyone on that list. If they do something wrong that is the size of a grain of sand, even repetitively, why ban them? I did take a step in cleaning up the members. With this forum, we have been able to get through to the troublemakers without getting rid of them forever.

One thing I find funny is how you claim you posted the thread in a place where people "don't act like idiots or egotists," then you come along and fuck everything up and act like you don't have an ego that is bigger than the oceans of the world.

Agamemnon
Half the people on the list were added by Rossmum because they crossed him wrong. Dole was the only real person that needed to be banned. I still don't see why Emmzee was except everyone else complained enough. That was the gist of it. If we all complained enough it happened. We all complained about the PC specs option being broken and you finally decided to fix it.

And this board is a horrible alternative. Internet anonymity gives people feeling and power to do what ever they wish without consequences. You decided to give Dole that much power over you, and because you did, his welcome here was long-overstayed. Your methods are weak and act too much on wishful thinking. You lack the iron fist and initiative to actually move forward and do what is necessary to fix this place up, and, instead, you try and set up a jail, and we all know just how well rehabilitation centers work, especially in real life situations.

As a matter of fact, you're only here because a real problem has risen up. On every other matter you're a ghost--just as much Ghost is himself. And since Zeph and Timo are in the same boat in time management, the only real person that was left up to doing anything was someone who doesn't even take this place seriously. That's what this is all about. I've been saying it for months now on the conspiracy boards, and when Doc felt like he would take matter into his own hands (unlocking the thread after I locked it because it turned into a disaster), it became quite clear how well the matters around here are handled, especially when we all know first hand that we don't see results until we all complain enough.

And try and stick to the matter at hand. Yes, I have an ego. What a surprise that is. Me, the one to have the initiative to do something about the problem that is this site--to speak out knowing what the consequences would be. I had the balls to do that, for the community, for maybe with the small hope of this place being fixed--and I end up getting punished for it. I might have had the arrogance to do something about the problems surrounding this site by planting the seed of destruction, but I'm not the arrogant one acting like as if nothing is wrong.

Have fun with this disaster you have here.

Jcap
You say that it's bad that I don't do anything about the list, then you say it's good, then bad, now good. I NEVER ONCE fell to the pressure that they put on me when it came to the list, yet you claim I don't put my fist down? Emmzee was banned for the same reason as Dole was, the same as Xet, and the same as Veegie will be.

You don't understand jack fucking shit about the PC specs. Just shut the fuck up about that. There's several reasons GHOST AND I couldn't have done anything on our own. The reason it was put off for so long is because of how unimportant it really is and because of how much work would have to go into getting it working. It isn't a one-click install, especially after the several updates we did on the forums.

Oh, yeah, we do know how rehab centers work. They work amazingly well. Once you can identify what their problem is, most can be fixed. Some are broken for life, but the majority do something wrong once and realize they can help themselves. Though I am no fan of Michael Moore, I have to point out his follow-up segment to his documentary, Sicko, on how there is a country whose sentences are fairly short and they get put on an island with everything we have in our normal lives so they can fix themselves.

When this forum was created, Ghost never wanted it to be a super strict asshole-run place. He didn't want the members to be afraid of the staff and to hold back from wanting to contribute. Whenever there is an issue, I will reason if it is something which should be put on the backburner, but if it is severe enough, I'll attack it right away. You really have no idea how to run a forum. Maybe I don't either, but what you think is absolutely NOT what can be done.

You feel you made a sacrifice to "help" make it "better". That's not being a hero - that's called being stupid.

You are the arrogant one who feels that everything is wrong due to a lack of logic.

Agamemnon
And what "justified" reasons are those? Xet hasn't had a flare of any attitude or negative comments, and neither has Emmzee. Emmzee's problem was remote, and, instead, you decided to just get rid of him. Hell, Veegie doesn't even come around here any more, and the threat he was to the forums has come and gone, back when he was a problem. Dole should've gotten the message from his first temp ban, and when that became apparently clear after the temp ban was lifted on him, you should've permabanned him then, not when I had to write a thesis on the things he has done wrong here.

Smooth with that language as well Jcap, real smooth. Try and keep a level head here; I am. I don't know anything about plugin modules for vBulletin, mostly because I've had zero experience with vBulletin, but what I can guess is that the problem had to do more so with not taking the time in trying to make it compatible.

And I understand your anger. I've never run a forum or any of that jazz and you feel insulted because I have the arrogance to question it, but that's the thing, Jcap. That is a luxury I have. You talk about how you didn't want this forum to have feared administrators, and yet here I am, questioning your methods, and you're getting overtly upset about it. So which is it, Jcap? I mean, instead of not being feared, you end up literally becoming a ghost. Instead of showing that you're in control, everyone runs around like this place is a joke. I don't need to tell you the numerous IMs I got from various people expressing how they felt like as if they never saw the two of you. So, again, your choice. This place is a mess because you let it be.

And about your whole Michael Moore comparison; those are two completely different situations. This is the Internet. Anonymity reigns here and gives people the incentive to just act like jack asses or act like their true selves. You honestly think putting them in a kid-esque time out playground area is going to change their mind? Who do you think you are actually fooling, Jcap?

And if you honestly believe sacrificing yourself for the good of others is "stupid," then we're getting some where in your actual thought process. I point out the administration's faults and set the truth upon the community and I'm called a fool and I'm banned. You could've stopped this whole thing if you took the initiative when the question was first brought up, months before when Rossmum and I kept repeatedly criticizing the state of the forums. You could've done something instead of waiting for Ghost to confirm another mod, despite how he'd take months of absences. I remember that when you spoke to me about it on AIM one night and how you had potential candidates, and the only real potential candidate you had in mind was Lightning, who was also just as busy as everyone else.

And it all leads up to a point, Jcap. See, you talk about your rules, you talk about trust, and you talk about running things, and all you're doing is setting up responsibility that you don't have the time to take. Instead of giving the moderator position to someone like Snaf or WaveOfLag, you already set yourself up for defeat, because you automatically believe that their past behavior will influence their future behavior. Being a moderator is a responsibility, one which I am sure Snaf or WoL would have happily accepted and then completely changed their mindset in posting habits. But you wouldn't know that, because you never gave them the chance to prove themselves. Instead, you were only thinking about offering the position to the ones that had already distinguished themselves to be just like you--too nice, too lax, and too busy.

You talk about embarrassment, but what you fail to realize is that is what you exactly need; to be embarrassed. If you can't handle embarrassment, then you can see where and why I question your methods, because when you're being called out for your faults, you shouldn't react negatively, like you have, nor should you silence the negative feedback. What you should've done is nodded and realized that this was the last straw I was trying to pick here. What I did with that alt clearly showed that. Two members immediately jumped down my throat, and yet they've done it in the past continually, and yet they are still there. I goaded Aerowyn into responding negatively, and instead of acting like an adult, she responded just as nastily. These are the people that you should be looking at. Rossmum probably has to be the biggest exception in moderating history, especially with his alt shenanigans and the amount of insults he has dished out to others because of a conflict in interest, and yet no one bothered to set him aside and say, "Take it easy on the new guys."

You need to hear that. You need that to sink in your mind. And apparently the only way I can even get you to think about it is by starting conflict and drama, which is why I did what I did. I revealed the conspiracies. So what? Do you know half the people that did IM me asking me about why I was banned already knew about it? Most of them saying Rossmum told them about it? The boards aren't a secret, especially with Bacon knowing about them and telling everyone about them, so why would showing it as public knowledge then become a bannable offense? Why would Doc tell me my ONI account wasn't susceptible to a ban because it was created before the alt rule was mandated and then ban it when I logged on? Why, because I persisted in an issue? And how professional was that handled, then? A full perma ban? What ever happened to this "intricate" warning system you set up?

The fact of the matter is that you've done nothing but stumble over this issue with what I revealed and my purposeful reason to starting an alt to rise up conflict. I showed you just how well the community responds to new members. That is something that is going to continually happen until you start punishing both who are involved in the conflict, and a slap on the wrists is not going to do much, so the question is, once again, whether you will decide to take the initiative and do what is necessary.

Until then, I'm gone. The majority of the people in the conspiracy agreed about how this place was going in a downward spiral and, since then, plenty of "regulars" have become infrequent visitors, with some not coming back at all, and just to further hit home on the idea, this all could've been prevented if you decided to do something about it instead of watch it pass the point of no return.

Also, Polar, this was not about Rossmum and I. We always argue like that. Hell, he IMs me later and we joke about it. If you honestly believe that's what this was about, then I thought wrong about you.

[CodeBrain]

hmph, figures.

Even if he was trying to prove a point, he still didn't have to make everyone be assholes to him, that was just a big mistake. Dragging Aerowyn into this "point" was unacceptable. Im sorry to say, Im glad that "faggot" is gone.

[PenGuin1362]

So yea man...those fucking chupacabras. they're everywhere ya gotta be careful.

[Con]

So yea man...those fucking chupacabras. they're everywhere ya gotta be careful.

http://users.cihost.com/ata/zoo/chup.jpg

[PenGuin1362]

DON'T MAKE ME RELIVE IT! :gonk:

[ICEE]

The thing is rob, that this isn't democracy. it's however the mods choose it to be. They don't owe us any explanation for their actions, because this is their forum.

[Skiiran]

The thing is rob, that this isn't democracy. it's however the mods choose it to be. They don't owe us any explanation for their actions, because this is their forum.
This is children's logic made by a child.

Yes it's their forum, but they should be listening when quite a good number of members point out an obvious flaw.

[Roostervier]

I really like the derailing guys. :downs:

Also, Skiiran is right. Ironclad, rethink your uh... thinking. <_<

Seriously, they could do what you said, but not much would be thought of the staff or their forum, would there? What you described is what a "bad" staff would do.

[Zeph]

Wow, I love how people read "serving detention" under a person's name and immediately assume they're permanently banned. Whatever happened to knowing a person is banned when their title reads: "BANNED"?

I can't put my finger on it, but something about the fact that Emmzee and Aggy got permanently banned while other members who I feel did deserve it are still around just doesn't sit well with me.
I, like most of the staff, am a full time college student going through finals. We dont come around the boards much at this time except for things that require immediate attention. Aggy broke some rules and is being taken away for a while. Even if you ignore that, he posted Ross's hate list which last I recall goes on about a hundred or so members. Emmzee was put into detention for failure to do something he was told to do in a prior detention. A permission bug from the updates actually banned him, but the effect is still the same. He's gone for the public boards for the time alloted.

I'm for banning people outright. It keeps this sort of bitching from happening. Dont go off saying that'll just drive people away, because there are plenty of boards out there that do so and they flourish regardless. Ghost is a softie and is adamant about giving people more than one chance. You guys are getting your chances, you still bitch anyways. You dont have to be here, so if you dont like what's going on you should leave.

It's quite simple. We're not here to arbitrate your personal grievances against other people. We're here to ensure the forum has no major problems and continues to function. Anything more than that is a bonus, really. It's getting ridiculous. You bitch when I'm not around to do things, then on the free weekends when I'm able to actually read the boards and moderate I get bitched at for enforcing violations I come across.

*sigh*

[Xetsuei]

You're a horrible mod. Just thought I'd let you know.

[legionaire45]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to pull a trick out of Ross/Aggy's bag here. Don't mind me, I'm just bitching about problems that effect everyone.

Wow, I love how people read "serving detention" under a person's name and immediately assume they're permanently banned. Whatever happened to knowing a person is banned when their title reads: "BANNED"?

I, like most of the staff, am a full time college student going through finals. We dont come around the boards much at this time except for things that require immediate attention. Aggy broke some rules and is being taken away for a while. Even if you ignore that, he posted Ross's hate list which last I recall goes on about a hundred or so members. Emmzee was put into detention for failure to do something he was told to do in a prior detention. A permission bug from the updates actually banned him, but the effect is still the same. He's gone for the public boards for the time alloted.Several problems with that. If there is no one here willing to spend time moderating then what is the point of having moderators in the first place? If you are not going to spend time actually doing your job here then why do you keep the green letters above your name? For status? Obviously something has been very wrong here for a long time, for the love of god Ross pointed this out months ago with the whole Berkut thing yet all that came out of that was "lul Ross has an alt lolol". Nothing changed as a result of that even though there was proof that there was a problem.

If posting a hate list is grounds for being thrown in jail, well, remind me to never post a screenshot of my ignore list here because that just goes on for pages.

I'm not sure why Emmzee was "thrown in jail" but the fact that he has been banned for 2 weeks without the moderators questioning it even though it was supposed to be just jail time makes me question whether any of you guys are aware of what each other are doing. It also makes me question, once again, if you really are trying to be mods so that you can help build a community or whether you just want the shiny badge on your chest without doing any of the work that it entails. Permission bug or not you guys obviously didn't notice the fact that his User name subtitle said "BANNED" as opposed to "In Detention", which screams negligence on the entire mod team's part.


I'm for banning people outright. It keeps this sort of bitching from happening. Dont go off saying that'll just drive people away, because there are plenty of boards out there that do so and they flourish regardless. Ghost is a softie and is adamant about giving people more than one chance. You guys are getting your chances, you still bitch anyways. You dont have to be here, so if you dont like what's going on you should leave.I'm pretty sure I heard Ennui from Gearbox say something to that effect during the crackdown on the HCE section, which also was around the time people stopped going to Gearbox. I've never had much of a problem with outright bannings because while for the most part I generally seem like an asshole/goof off I know when to shut the fuck up when the time suits it. However, I think one of the biggest things that draws people to this forum is the fact that we are so open about our rules -- Try posting one of our "LOL PENIS" topics on Gearbox and I can already predict an instaban/warning spree.

However, this openness is being directly threatened by the fact that the mods aren't protecting new members -- I've gotten away with things on this forum that are terrible, look at the thread that kicked this whole mess off. I think it's safe to say a rant like that would guarantee me a nice cold cell in the ban bin anywhere else. That particular topic touched a nerve on me because I can't stand it when people do things that are obviously destructive of expensive and hard to find equipment that could have been purchased by someone who would value it instead of destroying it. Regardless, my flame was uncalled for and out of hand. I should have been given a warning in that case, but instead the thread was actually unlocked so I could go back in and cause more trouble. This time it was for an experienced member, but if a noob came in here with that attitude and blatant disregard for the condition of his hardware, I would have done exactly the same thing and would probably have scared the guy off.

The fact that I honestly haven't seen Jcap or Ghost post on this site in months doesn't help either. Yes, now we have Polar Bear as a [strike]mod[strike] admin. Thats 1 administrator watching an entire site with thousands of members.



It's quite simple. We're not here to arbitrate your personal grievances against other people. We're here to ensure the forum has no major problems and continues to function. Anything more than that is a bonus, really. It's getting ridiculous. You bitch when I'm not around to do things, then on the free weekends when I'm able to actually read the boards and moderate I get bitched at for enforcing violations I come across.Obviously that is going well considering there are about 10,000 of these threads floating around in off-topic. You've been though high school history, you know how well brushing issues off did for King Louis XVI of France right before his government was overthrown? Ignoring the crowds of pissed off people does not fix problems, it lets them fester and grow until something like this happens.

As for the second thing, what exactly is keeping you stuck as a moderator here? Last I checked there wasn't any rule anywhere that said a mod could not step down. If you don't like hearing people telling the mods, the ones with power in this quasi-democratic system about their problems then I don't think that you should be a mod. Hell, this applies to every mod. If you can't put the time and effort into keeping the community a safe and productive place then step down and let someone more worthy take your place. Modship should not be simply a tool to exert your power over others. Modship should not be used as a tool to show yourself how cool you think you are. Modship should be a symbol of your devotion to keeping the community healthy. And to be honest the only ones I have seen here all day actively showing this spirit are the ones you are saying are bitching unjustly. The ones who had enough balls to say that there is a problem and to try and bring it to everyone's attention. The ones who have tried and tried again to bring these problems to your attention. The ones who have spent their time and energy on a god damn forum for 2 half dead games that somehow manages to thrive even with these limitations. What we have here is a community, a family. This family is being slowly destroyed by this.

[Rob Oplawar]

It's a fact of life that the people being ruled over will complain about the way the rulers do it, in any situation. I guess my primary grievance is the apparent lack of communication between the mods/admins and us petty folk. I hardly ever see you guys around, and the only times I notice are when you're doing something that seems unjust. But I'm being ungrateful, because you also do just things; I just don't notice those times.

That said, I'm not ready to fully step down from my argument yet. There are a lot of issues I feel aren't being addressed.
One of them is the fact that I've seen a lot of infractions on perfectly innocent posts while other obvious flames and rule violations go unnoticed. Unfortunately as I'm about to go to bed I won't look for any examples right now, and if I do look later, I'll prolly have trouble finding one, because for the most part these forums go very smoothly and it's only occasionally that these things happen. But like I said, I only take note of it when the bad things happen, so in my memory it seems like everything I can remember is something bad.

And on top of all that, this forum needs more/better mods badly. I won't name names, but yeah.

*snaps fingers* I've got it! The mods and especially admins are the biggest friggin trolls on this forum. Grr. It just seems like they're never around when they need to be, and overreact to things when they are around.

[Phobias]

Walls of text make it hard to stay up to date D:

*sorry...alright alright I'm getting the fuck out...geez.

[Rob Oplawar]

Shit I just made another mini-speech in an edit, but I was idle too long and got logged out and my speech vanished. Screw it. Bedtime.

[Bodzilla]

hmph, figures.

Even if he was trying to prove a point, he still didn't have to make everyone be assholes to him, that was just a big mistake. Dragging Aerowyn into this "point" was unacceptable. Im sorry to say, Im glad that "faggot" is gone.
i saw how u guys posted.

i was acutally going to tell yas to take it easy on him, as english wasnt his first language. I'm a member in the Clan D2T and we have or have had a few members from other countrys with different languages, so sometimes it's necessary to let a few things slide.

but instead u all decided to get on an already over filled disgusting band wagon waving your rep, weapons, insults and "superiour grammer" in the air like a bunch of deranged fuckheads.

i saw what went on, i just arrived to late to do anything about it.

altho i dont agree in aggy Goading Aeowyn, i thought that was a bit below the belt and uncalled for.

What the fuck has happened here, why is it that people dont take there warnings as Warnings and learn from there mistakes.
i stepped outta line at gearbox, got shot down, learned the boundrys and i was careful not to breach them.

[p0lar_bear]

but instead u all decided to get on an already over filled disgusting band wagon waving your rep, weapons, insults and "superiour grammer" in the air like a bunch of deranged fuckheads.

All users that have registered after October 4, 2007 have agreed that they are capable "... of typing in English legibly, [and] able to use proper English grammar..." as per the registration terms and conditions (http://www.h2vista.net/forums/announcement.php?f=18) outlined in the Acceptable Use Policy. While we tend to cut some slack for people who are obviously from non-English-speaking places and make the fact known, i.e. YOYORAST, if new users don't specify that English isn't their first language, then people WILL assume that they're American/British/Canadian/Australian/etc, and can speak English properly.

But, I noticed people were still hopping on the Grammarstapo bandwagon even after that particular user claimed he was Swedish, and that was unacceptable. Had I had administrative powers at that time, I would have acted.

[Pooky]

You guys must have epic patience or something... cause I was on about this months ago. I don't really give a shit anymore after being banned several times and getting detention for a reason that was never adequately explained. Have fun crying though, it never got me anywhere with this.

[Sever]

...While we tend to cut some slack for people who are obviously from non-English-speaking places and make the fact known, i.e. YOYORAST...

Hell, Yohan is now much more proficient in the English language than half of the current forum users - including those who have been here since the beginning. That's just sad when someone who wasn't even raised speaking our language is better at it than a majority of our members.

[Zeph]

Several problems with that. If there is no one here willing to spend time moderating then what is the point of having moderators in the first place? If you are not going to spend time actually doing your job here then why do you keep the green letters above your name? For status? Obviously something has been very wrong here for a long time, for the love of god Ross pointed this out months ago with the whole Berkut thing yet all that came out of that was "lul Ross has an alt lolol". Nothing changed as a result of that even though there was proof that there was a problem.
You seem to be missing a key factor here. Maintaining these forums isn't our primary goal in life. I keep the green letters above my name for the times that I can. If you dont like it then go away. We're not binding you here or anything. Your argument is like bitching about how cops dont pull over every single person who speeds. If a cop is out on patrol, sees someone going 15 over the limit, they're gonna get pulled over. If that cop is back at the station doing something there, then speeders get away with it.

In life you're always going to run into situations like that.


If posting a hate list is grounds for being thrown in jail, well, remind me to never post a screenshot of my ignore list here because that just goes on for pages.
Good, you're acting like a grownup and just ignoring people. Posting a hatelist is sketchy, but posting a list saying so-and-so is a faggot, etc. is not.


I'm not sure why Emmzee was "thrown in jail" but the fact that he has been banned for 2 weeks without the moderators questioning it even though it was supposed to be just jail time makes me question whether any of you guys are aware of what each other are doing. It also makes me question, once again, if you really are trying to be mods so that you can help build a community or whether you just want the shiny badge on your chest without doing any of the work that it entails. Permission bug or not you guys obviously didn't notice the fact that his User name subtitle said "BANNED" as opposed to "In Detention", which screams negligence on the entire mod team's part.
I'll start where you began. You dont know why he was, so why are you bitching about it? The permission bug happened a bit after the detention began. Even if I accidentally chose the ban option instead of the dropbox, the end result is still the same. I mean come on, you can wage a little war to get it changed to from a detention to a ban. Congratulations, you win. Now you still have to wait for his time to be up. I think it's hilarious you think I should have checked his profile to realize his user-title was correct every moment of his time. I dont go through boards looking at every individual post. I go through lists looking through a user's post history, warnings, etc.


The fact that I honestly haven't seen Jcap or Ghost post on this site in months doesn't help either. Yes, now we have Polar Bear as a [strike]mod[strike] admin. Thats 1 administrator watching an entire site with thousands of members.
Oh yeah, because you definitely know that Polar is here to do coding work to improve the site. Ghost and Jcap are still active. They might not post outside the admin areas much, but they're here. Just because you dont see god standing infront of you doesn't mean he cant/wont smite you.


Obviously that is going well considering there are about 10,000 of these threads floating around in off-topic.
Yeah. Sure. Over reacting much? Even in the trash thread, there's not even five ranging the history of this board.


As for the second thing, what exactly is keeping you stuck as a moderator here? Last I checked there wasn't any rule anywhere that said a mod could not step down. If you don't like hearing people telling the mods, the ones with power in this quasi-democratic system about their problems then I don't think that you should be a mod. Hell, this applies to every mod. If you can't put the time and effort into keeping the community a safe and productive place then step down and let someone more worthy take your place. Modship should not be simply a tool to exert your power over others. Modship should not be used as a tool to show yourself how cool you think you are. Modship should be a symbol of your devotion to keeping the community healthy. And to be honest the only ones I have seen here all day actively showing this spirit are the ones you are saying are bitching unjustly. The ones who had enough balls to say that there is a problem and to try and bring it to everyone's attention. The ones who have tried and tried again to bring these problems to your attention. The ones who have spent their time and energy on a god damn forum for 2 half dead games that somehow manages to thrive even with these limitations. What we have here is a community, a family. This family is being slowly destroyed by this.
Yeah, that works well in a communist or militaristic state, but this is just a site owned by one of my friends. Dont get me wrong, it's great that you think that, but your expectations are ultimately too high. Nothing is keeping me from asking to be demoded. I actually have before when I realized I was going to be on campus for about 60 hours a week. Really, by your argument, Ghost should stop paying the bill for the site since he "never shows up".
I wouldn't say either of these games are thriving nor this community could be considered family. I've experienced the "this place is being destroyed, no one is going to ever come here again" thing multiple times. I happened with Nitro way back with H2CE, it happened with a couple of GBE'ers, and it's even happened here before.

I just went and picked a random zero post member. Now tell me, if this guy (http://www.h2vista.net/forums/member.php?u=384) posted a list with the names of a hundred or so people on this board in such a manner would you complain if he was banned/put in detention? Do you think we'd be having this conversation? I dont. I honestly only look at names of users when I open up a reported post or peruse the boards. I didn't even know who Fried was until he started negative repping me for me warning him after he called someone a faggot.

[Rob Oplawar]

Rabble rabble rabble rabble!

I'm sorry. I admit that it is hard to run a forum, it is hard to be fair, it is nigh impossible to keep track of everything that is said on the forums, and I accept that you're trying your hardest. I apologize for being so inflammatory earlier, and I admit I overreacted, oversimplified, and overlooked certain things. I guess that's just me being an asshole.

In keeping with that tradition, I refuse to step down from my complaints about the moderators and administrators, namely, the fact that yes indeed they do have lives outside this forum and often don't have time to be patrolling. Yes, I guess that in effect I am complaining about the fact that the moderators have lives.

Hear me out.

All the other dichotomies popularized by goofy tee-shirts notwithstanding, I'd like to add my own. There are two types of people in the world- those who justify their inaction by stating the difficulties of action, and those who take action anyway, despite the challenge.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with either type; it's quite alright to decide something is too difficult for one to accomplish. But for Christ's sake, the one thing I hate the most in people is when people who take a task upon themselves and then justify their reluctance to actually perform that task by stating that it is hard for them.

Look, we all know it's hard, although since few of us have ever been in your position we don't know quite how hard.

So, I'm expecting someone in charge to step up to the plate and say one of two things, and I won't spell them out for you. Just know that if your response seems obvious to you it's probably obvious to me too, so you don't have to angrily shout it at me like I'm a moron. I just want to hear you say it and then I'll drop the whole thing.

[Tweek]

I just want to hear you say it and then I'll drop the whole thing.

COCKS!

there, i did it.

[Rob Oplawar]

Close, but way off. :rolleyes:

e: oh right dur, it was Zeph who was talking about finals. All hostilities and argument aside, good luck with finals. =)

[Rosco]

I was close to taking note of your signature but then I realised you're just a concerned being who lives here. :(

The only reason I believe things are run the way they are in some circumstances, not to do with a banlist or anything, but the fact mods don't want to sift through countless posts saying lemme in the cooldudes forums or something.

Please note this post is a general guess at what's going on, I find this stuff way too serious for me to spend time comprehending.

[Roostervier]

Zeph, if posting that list was a bannable offense to a person such as Aggy, or to anyone else... why was the author not banned (I'm well aware of who it is. I'm not against him, but I've got to keep with equality)? If posting a list saying so-and-so is a faggot is indeed wrong, then why was the post ever allowed to exist in the first place? Should it not have been deleted?

Also, your cop to mod analogy was a very bad comparison. A cop patrolling the streets and a cop doing his job back at the station both have a common theme. That is, he is doing his job either way. A mod who is out monitoring the forum and a mod who is too busy to be out monitoring the forum (aka doing his job) is not the same thing as the cop on patrol and the cop back at the station, as the mod wouldn't be doing his job. So, as legonaire said, if you are too busy to do your job, then step down.

[Tweek]

Zeph, if posting that list was a bannable offense to a person such as Aggy, or to anyone else... why was the author not banned (I'm well aware of who it is. I'm not against him, but I've got to keep with equality)? If posting a list saying so-and-so is a faggot is indeed wrong, then why was the post ever allowed to exist in the first place? Should it not have been deleted?

Also, your cop to mod analogy was a very bad comparison. A cop patrolling the streets and a cop doing his job back at the station both have a common theme. That is, he is doing his job either way. A mod who is out monitoring the forum and a mod who is too busy to be out monitoring the forum (aka doing his job) is not the same thing as the cop on patrol and the cop back at the station, as the mod wouldn't be doing his job. So, as legonaire said, if you are too busy to do your job, then step down.

i'm sorry, but that's one of the more DUMB posts i have seen you make in a long while.

[Roostervier]

Care to explain a little, tweek? If you don't have anything backing that statement, then I kindly ask you to retract it.

[Tweek]

you're saying ban people who make a list.
that's like stealing someones diary, reading it, and telling him OH MY FGOD YOU SAID THIS AND THIS!
ok it's not really, but my brain is shutting down, and i cant think of anythign better atm.

it's hippo-crit, and paranoid

also, it's a fucking forum, internet, not like it's got any unfluence on how your life will turn out.
i've been holding back in this issue all the time, but my opinion to all the nay-sayers here:

plainly:

profanity AHOY!

shut up, quit your whining, put up with it, or gtfo.
we all have better stuff to do than read your crybabying about oh no my friend got banned, waah waah waah.
repcircling, conspiracy, secret plots and discrimination.
give it a fuckign rest already, everyone knows your opinions about the state here. objections have been noted. now MOVE THE FUCK ON.
INTERNET! SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS.

[Emmzee]

Honestly, you guys? Give it a fucking rest.

I was put in detention for legitimate reasons pertaining to my last detention prior to this most recent one. Aggy was being a troll, like always, and he finally got punished for his actions.

[Roostervier]

It's not like the (original) list wasn't posted on H2V. <_<

I get what you mean, you are right about that. What I am saying is, don't fucking ban the guy who simply reposted it when the first post wasn't even deleted. Delete the original, and the problem is solved.

e: Also, I don't know if it is deleted now, I can't check. I'm sorry if it has been and I don't know, but it obviously wasn't deleted before Aggy posted it.

[PenGuin1362]

Chupacabras man! EVERYWHERE!! EVERYWHERE!!!!! OH GOD!!!

[Emmzee]

I, personally, would like to know about this "conspiracy."

[jcap]

It's not like the (original) list wasn't posted on H2V. <_<

I get what you mean, you are right about that. What I am saying is, don't fucking ban the guy who simply reposted it when the first post wasn't even deleted. Delete the original, and the problem is solved.

e: Also, I don't know if it is deleted now, I can't check. I'm sorry if it has been and I don't know, but it obviously wasn't deleted before Aggy posted it.
There was never a "first" before this...

[Rob Oplawar]

Ok, we're past the bannings issue, but that's not the issue I'm on about now.
Have you guys seen Anger Management? Well, the guy who puts up with everything politely, who's nice to everyone, even the assholes, who's always going out of his way to be unoffensive, until one day the guy at the grocery store refuses to take his expired coupon and then he snaps, machine-gunning everyone in the store? That's me, and people I know appearing to get permanently exiled from the forums while other people who seem to deserve it appear to get no punishment, that's the guy legitimately refusing to take my coupon because it's expired.

BUT IT'S ONLY EXPIRED BY ONE DAY! COME ON!
*RATATATATATAT!*

Srsly tho, the fact that something mild and ultimately pointless set me off doesn't undo what built up the complaint in the first place.

E: Also, the whole conspiracy boards thing is not helping your case, imo. I have to agree with FR on the point that it's suspicious that one member gets away with posting this list in a secret forum where the higher ups can look at it and laugh and yet the person who exposes it to the public eye gets the blame. Maybe I need a retelling of the events here. According to the mods, what exactly happened with that?

[Roostervier]

Still derailing the topic? I don't see how the post contributes or pertains to the topic at hand, so why are spamming up the thread? Should I really delve further into the reason why? Or should we just group up and stop derailing the thread?

Seriously, what goal are you trying to reach? Derail the thread enough to get it locked so we can't discuss the subject any more?

e: Also, I'm talking to peng.

[teh lag]

Chupacabras man! EVERYWHERE!! EVERYWHERE!!!!! OH GOD!!!

Real great post there, pengy. Real constructive.

[Emmzee]

Still derailing the topic? I don't see how the post contributes or pertains to the topic at hand, so why are spamming up the thread? Should I really delve further into the reason why? Or should we just group up and stop derailing the thread?

Seriously, what goal are you trying to reach? Derail the thread enough to get it locked so we can't discuss the subject any more?
Posting about the thread being derailed isn't helping.

Nor is this post.

[Roostervier]

Emmzee, I don't know. Maybe I just feel like I can get away with it just like Penguin is, you know?

Also, Jcap, I do believe it was posted before. I've got proof I can show you on AIM. I'd show everyone here, but this post would probably just get deleted.

[Rob Oplawar]

^ :tinfoil:

edit to avoid doublepost:
Harsh, I think I made Tweek hate me.

What I tried to say earlier but my text disappeared because I got logged out was this:
I have no problem with there being a social hierarchy here. It's perfectly natural and perfectly alright. But I've noticed that very few people higher up on that hierarchy are taking this at all seriously. Mostly they don't care. Because this doesn't apply to them. They are above the law.
Ross is a clear example of the need for giving warnings to everyone regardless of their standing with the site, and letting the bannings follow appropriately from the warning system, instead of tossing out instant permabans here and there whenever the fancy strikes you. I like Ross and I think he's a valuable contributor to this community, and if he got warnings for half the shit he does he'd have been banned months ago, but see, the idea is that you give warnings to, like, warn people and show that there are indeed consequences, so that they will grow up and avoid getting enough warnings to be banned, because if you don't do that then somebody will eventually get so out of line that you'll just have to drop the banhammer without warning. Which is lame.

[SnaFuBAR]

You guys must have epic patience or something... cause I was on about this months ago. I don't really give a shit anymore after being banned several times and getting detention for a reason that was never adequately explained. Have fun crying though, it never got me anywhere with this.

i can tell everyone exactly why you were, if you don't want to stop being full of shit. :)

[PenGuin1362]

Still derailing the topic? I don't see how the post contributes or pertains to the topic at hand, so why are spamming up the thread? Should I really delve further into the reason why? Or should we just group up and stop derailing the thread?

Seriously, what goal are you trying to reach? Derail the thread enough to get it locked so we can't discuss the subject any more?

e: Also, I'm talking to peng.

no i'm not intentionally trying to get this topic locked. i'm making these posts because you guys are getting so worked up over nothing. chill the fuck out. everyone is in DETENTION. which means they will come back soon. and jcap even apologized to Emmzee for him being in detention for so long because there was an error on his part. Seriously you guys can't let anything go. i'm not derailing, i'm, more or less, mocking you guys. Aggy will be back when he calms down, he's only in detention.

And this "conspiracy" is not a place where everyone goes to bash other members. I'm not gunna lie and say that it doesn't happen, cause it does. People come along, they're retarded, they piss off other members, so those members post about it in there. but to be honest, it's no different then IM. it's a PRIVATE board so none of you will ever know what has been said about you. and I'm sure many of you have done it to others over aim. But as i was saying, that's not the sole purpose of that board. it's a place where RESPECTED (key word here) members can just post about random useless shit that we feel like posting. about 90% of that board is just spam from half of us being bored. 9% is us bashing ross or other members in that board and the 1% is people getting angry at members being retarded. It's a place for us to post funny shit and have fun without regards to the rules.


In closing. avoid chupacabras. they will eat your soul.

[Emmzee]

I have no problem with there being a social hierarchy here. It's perfectly natural and perfectly alright. But I've noticed that very few people higher up on that hierarchy are taking this at all seriously. Mostly they don't care. Because this doesn't apply to them. They are above the law.
Ross is a clear example of the need for giving warnings to everyone regardless of their standing with the site, and letting the bannings follow appropriately from the warning system, instead of tossing out instant permabans here and there whenever the fancy strikes you. I like Ross and I think he's a valuable contributor to this community, and if he got warnings for half the shit he does he'd have been banned months ago, but see, the idea is that you give warnings to, like, warn people and show that there are indeed consequences, so that they will grow up and avoid getting enough warnings to be banned, because if you don't do that then somebody will eventually get so out of line that you'll just have to drop the banhammer without warning. Which is lame.
.

I was banned with only one withstanding warning, which would expire the date my ban was to be lifted (December 19), and that warning was for only 2 points. I'm no expert at math, but I'd say that since 20 points is needed for a ban, 2 is less than 20.

So I'm calling bullshit on the current banning system, not the one that's on the books, but the one that is practiced widely.

[SnaFuBAR]

i hunt chupathingies.

[SnaFuBAR]

.

I was banned with only one withstanding warning, which would expire the date my ban was to be lifted (December 19), and that warning was for only 2 points. I'm no expert at math, but I'd say that since 20 points is needed for a ban, 2 is less than 20.

So I'm calling bullshit on the current banning system, not the one that's on the books, but the one that is practiced widely.
you were banned unintentionally after being placed in detention for valid reasons. they felt bad about the mistaken banning and said you're off the hook. stop whining. shush. Just be glad no chupathingies are in detention.

[Roostervier]

All I can say is that I'm glad to see someone's got the balls to admit something, instead of keeping it strictly private and lying about it. Basically, what makes everyone so apprehensive of the board you speak of is how its supposed to be. It's at the point where Jcap lies about the list just to keep it under hush. If that's not the reason Jcap, feel free to post a response as to why you lied then.

I realize now that what you mostly do is what people like me do on aim, but what my argument used as a point earlier is that the list wasn't talked about in AIM or anything, it was done on these boards, albeit in secret. If the list's posting was such a horrible offense then why was it posted on the boards? It would have been completely different if it were over aim or even somewhere else.

Anyway, I guess you are right. I guess some of us were getting overly excited (keep in mind excited doesn't always bear the meaning of being happy) and stuff. I really shouldn't drag others into this, it was really just me. I guess I should apologize, huh? Well, here it is. I am sorry I was getting wound up about shit I don't know anything about. Lately I've just been finding it harder to trust people simply because of them lying, and it had me alarmed. So with that, I'll try to avoid getting in this situation again. :\

[Emmzee]

you were banned unintentionally after being placed in detention for valid reasons. they felt bad about the mistaken banning and said you're off the hook. stop whining. shush. Just be glad no chupathingies are in detention.
No, I was banned.

Jcap himself said that detention is indefinite, until you have proven in the detention thread that you will improve, and I experienced this firsthand before. When I logged on on December 5th, I got the message that I had been banned until December 19. That's 2 weeks. And here I thought detention was indefinite.

[SnaFuBAR]

nice try. as jcap himself said, it was an error with the system, and your unintentional ban went unnoticed by the staff, therefore, you were let off the hook, and told to watch your posting habits.

[Emmzee]

nice try. as jcap himself said, it was an error with the system, and your unintentional ban went unnoticed by the staff, therefore, you were let off the hook, and told to watch your posting habits.
Oh, so you're believing jcap because he's an administrator? Unnoticed? Bull shit. You'd think they would notice the "banned" title, and why I wasn't posting in my detention thread. Nice try.

I see what's going on here.

[SnaFuBAR]

enlighten me, what's going on? i'd like to see what you can come up with :)

[jcap]

I never noticed your banned title. I didn't notice it once since I never looked at your profile. When banned, or even in detention, you are removed from the member list. At one time I was about to check your account to be sure that you weren't banned, but I was sidetracked with another thing I was working on. I questioned why you weren't posting in the detention thread, but it also crossed my mind how there's two other users in there who never replied, and with it being your second time in there, it would make sense if you got pissed. If you were intentionally banned, you would have fully served it. You also would have been banned for an entire month. And to answer your first question: yes, you should believe me because I am an administrator. I'm not trying to fool anyone. All you are doing is fooling yourself.

Also, you are wrong with your numbers. Five points are required for a 1 month ban.
See: http://www.h2vista.net/forums/announcement.php?f=1

After five (5) active points are accumulated, the user will be banned for a period of one month. The staff may choose to intervene at any time and move a user into "detention" to discuss their actions, their history, and where they are headed.

[Emmzee]

I never noticed your banned title. I didn't notice it once since I never looked at your profile. When banned, or even in detention, you are removed from the member list. At one time I was about to check your account to be sure that you weren't banned, but I was sidetracked with another thing I was working on. I questioned why you weren't posting in the detention thread, but it also crossed my mind how there's two other users in there who never replied, and with it being your second time in there, it would make sense if you got pissed. If you were intentionally banned, you would have fully served it. You also would have been banned for an entire month. And to answer your first question: yes, you should believe me because I am an administrator. I'm not trying to fool anyone. All you are doing is fooling yourself.

Also, you are wrong with your numbers. Five points are required for a 1 month ban.
See: http://www.h2vista.net/forums/announcement.php?f=1
Maybe you're fooling us all.

Also, is that new? The last time I read the rules was last year, and it was 20 points = permaban.

[jcap]

Also, is that new? The last time I read the rules was last year, and it was 20 points = permaban.
http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6806

=/

[Emmzee]

http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6806

=/
You could've just said yes. :smith:

[Rob Oplawar]

I'm still waiting on either the one obvious thing or the other obvious thing I'd like to hear one of the mods say. I already did my end of it. Now let's hear it.

[Phobias]

Did rob get banned, like...within 4 minutes ago?

:confused:

Edit:
What the fuck, for a minute it said he was banned.

[Rob Oplawar]

AH I TOLD YOU SO NAZI CONSPIRACY!
I HACKED THE SITE JUST TO SAY THIS!
I'm pissed, and I'm leaving forever, now I'll unhack it and stay permanently banned.


edit: juust kidding. Atty was just testing something or other. I'm apparently a guinea pig.

[p0lar_bear]

I'm still waiting on either the one obvious thing or the other obvious thing I'd like to hear one of the mods say. I already did my end of it. Now let's hear it.
I don't really know what it is. My guess is that the site is under"staff"ed. We have (with the exclusion of myself) 6 staff members; 5 of them are United States users, and one of them is a New Zealander. Nobody is paid to do this; hell, I imagine the ad revenue generated is barely enough to cover a fraction of hosting costs, so I'd imagine that our staff's priorities are focused on more important matters.

This is a fan-owned-and-operated site, not a forum run by a company with people they pay to ensure everything stays the way the webmaster desires, right down to the letter. This is why these forums are so lenient with some things as compared to Gearbox. We don't have an ennui who is getting paid to browse the forums, moderate them, and act as public relations.

[El Lobo]

It's because you gave me sass Rob.

True story.

[PenGuin1362]

False story. I was there...i was there...

[Kornman00]

5 of them are United States users, and one of them is a New Zealander.
+1 in germany :downs:

[Rob Oplawar]

Sigh, it's natural for people to want to defend themselves and their reputations. It can just be frustrating when the only response I get to "i think there's a problem" is "well i'm busy with other things and you can't really blame me." I already get that; it's something else I'm looking for.

ot:
Lol Korn, nice sig. STOP LETTING MAINSTREAM MEDIA INFLUENCE YOU. Let this colorful eye catching demanding banner ad influence you instead!

[Pooky]

i can tell everyone exactly why you were, if you don't want to stop being full of shit. :)

We should call posts like this 'pulling a Dole'. You claim to know something significant, and troll me to that end, yet never explain it.

I'm not sure why you hate me, and up until now I thought no ill of you, but t's becoming mutual.

[SnaFuBAR]

you want me to post it or Ghostie? quite clearly, he thought your actions troublesome, and decided to do something about it, and explained it in full in your detention thread. don't remember that?

you're trying to cry wolf on the administration, and i call you out on it, and that's trolling? lmfao.

[n00b1n8R]

Since Ghost doesn't come around too often, why don't you explain it for all of us?

[SnaFuBAR]

I would like Fried's input before doing so :)

[Rob Oplawar]

Well, I'm severely disappointed that Zeph and p0lar are the only ones who made any attempt to reply to this, and p0lar didn't even have to because he hasn't been in a position of responsibility very long- none of this was his fault.

I'm also disappointed that I'm going to have to spell it out for you since nobody wants to say it, even though once I do say it you're going to think "that's it?! that's all he wanted?! why was he making such a big fuss?!" But I am making such a big fuss because none of the mods or admins on this site want to admit any fallibility or culpability!

All I have heard is excuses! I don't care about your excuses, as I have heard them all before and agree with them! All I want you to do is stop making excuses justifying the unsaid and just say it already- that you are not perfect mods, that you cannot be perfect mods, that due to your imperfections you have done things wrong, and that yes you are to blame for some of the site's shortcomings.

And don't make any more excuses. I have heard them all before. They are all valid excuses. You have lives. You're human. OK. I forgive you. So long as you will just stop evading the truth and fucking admit it already. That's what pisses me off about this site's admins and mods- I have never once seen them admit any fallibility or culpability for anything, they just keep making excuses, valid as they may be.

[Pooky]

and explained it in full in your detention thread. don't remember that?

See, that's the part where you're wrong. I asked for an explanation several times in my detention thread but never got one. If Ghost really thinks my actions troublesome, he can always ban me... It's his forum not mine.

[SnaFuBAR]

Ghost's explanation, worded similarly in your detention thread, "was browsing one night and I went to a number of threads where Fried was flaming other members, complaining to no end, and then bitching about how things were done on this site. I got pissed so I temporarily took away his posting privs, because giving him another warning would result in a one month stay in DETENTION. I intend to let him out soon, just that I put him there because I found his (perhaps temporary) behavior unacceptable."

Now what, you're going to deny that?

[Pooky]

ghosts explanation, worded similarly in your detention thread, "was browsing one night and I went to a number of threads where Fried was flaming other members, complaining to no end, and then bitching about how things were done on this site. I got pissed so I temporarily took away his posting privs, because giving him another warning would result in a one month stay in DETENTION. I intend to let him out soon, just that I put him there because I found his (perhaps temporary) behavior unacceptable."

If that was in my detention thread, I got removed from it before I ever saw it. Thanks for showing.

[Rob Oplawar]

Quit derailing my thread with your personal argument. I stated a long time ago that this thread isn't about that.

[n00b1n8R]

the argument was over (if you wanted to call it an argument) >__>

[p0lar_bear]

This thread is over. I'm locking it.

If another admin wishes to contribute something, they can.

[jcap]

With the way the original warning system that was put in place when the forum first started up, it was almost impossible to get a member banned. This was partially due to the fact that many chances were given before a ban occurred, but even when that time came it worked only half of the time (if that). The "number of chances" (points and infractions) were intended to be so that someone who constantly screws up accumulates points fast and gets banned, while someone who has been around for much longer may screw up every once in a while, but wouldn't find themselves banned over something stupid. Unfortunately, this didn't work. It didn't work mostly because the things people were screwing up with were either too minor to land a finger on with an infraction, or the point values to warrant a ban were too little.

When I revamped the forum at the beginning of the summer, we were working on redoing the infractions as well. They were left neglected for the most part as the summer went on because it's terrible to stay locked inside all day on a beautiful, but then at the end of the summer they were put in place after p0lar gave a huge jump-start. These were much better structured and a lot more "open". They took away the key factor there was before with not knowing what to warn someone about. Since that update, A LOT more infractions have been given out for what they should; they just haven't been very strict. The problem with being strict is someone could be joking, and then another could take it serious and feel offended. If it is an obvious joke to one, but someone else feels it is offensive, then do you give them an infraction or not? Even further, do you give someone an infraction for something that was greatly provoked by another member?

I know I am not perfect, and I think I can speak for everyone when I say that. However, I absolutely cannot take the blame for this sites "shortcomings". I can agree that I am part of the issue, but you and everyone else can't deny either that you are part of the problem as well. The perfectly valid "excuses" explain clearly that we are accountable for some problems. None of them are supposed to pass the blame since they are directly related to us, but to give a proper REASON for why.

As stated before, Emmzee's issue was a complete accident. That's handled now (unfortunately, in way more time than it should have taken) and is a dead issue. Agamemnon is a situation unique of its own. Given the way it has been handled as of now, it doesn't look like his account will be seen active on this forum again. If he wishes to slip under the radar and come back under another identity, I wouldn't say he isn't welcome.