{WIP}Cliff Island (name not final, still undecided)

[§partan 8]

Ok it’s been almost 2 months since I started making this. Just want to show you guys what I was working on. The model is done, just getting it in-game now and I will texture it later. I will probably change some structures too, so all of them might not be final yet. I just want you guys to tell me what looks shitty and what doesn’t so i can make it better and I will do my best to make it better by off of what you think. I know that I still got some smoothing to fix.





http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6144/83365295bv0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6026/11eo8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2161/12zw1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9760/15ux4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7500/13ob1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7302/17hg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6445/18ek0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2406/19ig5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5955/20oi9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9480/23vu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9480/23vu3.9a806a6221.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=526&i=23vu3.jpg)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1359/24mx2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1359/24mx2.730a4aea26.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=526&i=24mx2.jpg)

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/497/25rd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1294/40706390ak0.c98e5f6a0e.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=511&i=40706390ak0.jpg)

[Jay2645]

Alright, 2 suggestions:
1. Get rid of all but the 2 most recent pictures. I saw that first one and lost my sight.
2. Make the map that grey texture you had in a couple of them so it doesn't look like play-dough.
3. Get rid of autosmooth.

[Gwunty]

cliffs=fail
structures=not forerunner
but its pretty decent
for some part
keep practicing

[dg]

Better than I could ever do. I would take some advice from people here. They know a ton even though they're complete assholes about it sometimes.

Nice job, man.

[Sever]

Dear god why doesn't anybody other than EJ Burke know how to properly create Forerunner architecture?!?!?

Seriously, its not that hard to study H1/2/3's singleplayer/multiplayer levels and concept art. Take some time to create a concise setting before you even start to think about the gameplay of the map, that which you apparently didn't do, seeing as to the fact that it is just one linear path around a central point, providing no application of strategy, only allowing for a 'see who can shoot first' setup.


I fail to see a map in the mess of bevels and extrusions that you and satan have worked together to spawn.

[Flyboy]

Better than I could ever do. I would take some advice from people here. They know a ton even though they're complete assholes about it sometimes.

Nice job, man.
Twice I quote you for stating the obvious most don't realize.

[Con]

It's certainly a very original looking map, and it's nice to see someone who can model a whole map instead of posting some crap model in the gallery thread every few weeks. I like the mix of terrain and structures, but it looks like you need to work on your forerunner styling. The structures look very yoyorasty if you know what I mean. They aren't really following the forerunner design. I would like to see more to the underground tunnels than a narrow passage way winding around. Caverns and rooms would be neat. The top of the island is also very boring looking. Try to have players use that as an alternate path too, but don't let it be too open. Lots of work to do, but I think it's worthy of a +rep.

Also, put some [shot] tags on your first image.

[StankBacon]

since when does every halo map need to be forerunner...


looks like a cool map, keep it up.

[Con]

since when does every halo map need to be forerunner...

If you're referring to my post, then my answer is when the modeler attempts that style, which is obviously what he's done. Also, forerunner maps fit in the best as well. Anything other than human, covie, or forerunner architecture doesn't fit in well with halo unless it's done extremely well, like Church. Even then, the weapons, etc, seem a bit out of place. Forerunner maps are easy because they don't really need an apparent purpose to the layout and structures you make.

[§partan 8]

Dear god why doesn't anybody other than EJ Burke know how to properly create Forerunner architecture?!?!?

Seriously, its not that hard to study H1/2/3's singleplayer/multiplayer levels and concept art. Take some time to create a concise setting before you even start to think about the gameplay of the map, that which you apparently didn't do, seeing as to the fact that it is just one linear path around a central point, providing no application of strategy, only allowing for a 'see who can shoot first' setup.


I fail to see a map in the mess of bevels and extrusions that you and satan have worked together to spawn.

Maybe it isn't Forerunner structure, its just structure





It's certainly a very original looking map, and it's nice to see someone who can model a whole map instead of posting some crap model in the gallery thread every few weeks. I like the mix of terrain and structures, but it looks like you need to work on your forerunner styling. The structures look very yoyorasty if you know what I mean. They aren't really following the forerunner design. I would like to see more to the underground tunnels than a narrow passage way winding around. Caverns and rooms would be neat. The top of the island is also very boring looking. Try to have players use that as an alternate path too, but don't let it be too open. Lots of work to do, but I think it's worthy of a +rep.

Also, put some [shot] tags on your first image.

The top of the island is not going to be accessible

[Con]

Maybe it isn't Forerunner structure, its just structure
People use this as an excuse for not being able to model forerunner structures that well. It's obvious that Forerunner is the direction you were going.

[§partan 8]

People use this as an excuse for not being able to model forerunner structures that well. It's obvious that Forerunner is the direction you were going.

I know your right. I not very good at modeling at forunner structure as you can see.


EDIT:

Sorry about the picture on the front page there are a bit old, here are a few new ones. Not much change. Textures are place holders.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4314/36640151vo3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3738/81445249lu0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3738/81445249lu0.06d687ca44.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=529&i=81445249lu0.jpg)
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2893/gbgfcr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2893/gbgfcr3.db060f64ef.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=524&i=gbgfcr3.jpg)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2090/84643601eu0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Jay2645]

MUCH better. Looking good, keep it up!

[Con]

It's hard to see any of the details since the texture hides them. Post some ingame shots when you get the chance :)

[Jay2645]

An idea for a name:
Killimanjaro. It IS a mountain, after all. And a H2 and H3 medal.

[Mass]

You have a vague incomplete idea of forerunner architecture, with modifications you could a vaguely similar look and similar gameplay. You've taken the gist and brought in a bad direction. I can not ever successfully explain it on an art plane, so, pure fact and logic: Remember to only use the correct angles: 90, 45, and 30/60. Remember that use of curves is sparing but essential. All structures should have their wall aligned on the same axis. They should appear connected or purposeful. You have objects that appear similar in shape, size, and design to things already a part of forerunner buildings; try to emulate those until you are very familiar with the style and capable of utilizing it.

I must repeat, it is essential to your understanding of visuals and flow: The structures are covered with dirt and rock. Imagine the map without the terrain and evaluate how the buildings look. Ridiculous? Align them. Shape them. Form follows function, imagining a function or purpose will give way to proper logical and artistic flow.

[§partan 8]

The map is already at 29,541 polys. A little too much maybe?http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2889/haloce2008010819422498ki3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2889/haloce2008010819422498ki3.6b6df11424.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=529&i=haloce2008010819422498ki3.jpg)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1756/haloce2008010819425585ld0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1756/haloce2008010819425585ld0.3492941634.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=527&i=haloce2008010819425585ld0.jpg)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4765/haloce2008010819432838sa7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4765/haloce2008010819432838sa7.e3426e28e3.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=527&i=haloce2008010819432838sa7.jpg)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9052/haloce2008010819492171jo3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

EDIT: Almost forgot about these. I plane modeled all the mountains. Most of the structures I box modeled.

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7631/98191023hm8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7663/70134699az0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3701/83943920cp8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4168/78316377gv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[LlamaMaster]

Hell, that isn't that bad. It's not that great, but you have some clue what your doing. The structures are pretty bad though, but the layout is nice.

[Con]

Poly distribution looks good in most areas, but you could reduce the number in others. It also looks about death island's size, am I right?

[§partan 8]

Poly distribution looks good in most areas, but you could reduce the number in others. It also looks about death island's size, am I right?

Yeah it's close to death island's size. I going to scale it up a bit because when I just beta tested it, it was kinda small. Weird though because in max it looked allot bigger.

EDIT: I start work on some better structures. At least I'll try.

[Tweek]

needs more polys in most areas, ESPECIALLY youre forerunner architecture.
remember you can only assign 1 texture to a face, cut faces, to allow you rself to play more with textures. trims, insets, extrusions are all a vital part of having forerunner look decent.

else everything is just another box with a face extruded 50 times. (which is what you have now

polycount doesn't really matter much for an entire map. that's what portals are for, and unless you're running a pc from 6 years ago, the computers can take it without even a hint of effort.
also, the top of the map, if you can't get there, don't add polys there. it'll just fuck with the portalling.

[SnaFuBAR]

the structures aren't any good for anything but backdrop material. they're overtly boring and without purpose. looks more like ridged sheet metal fell against a melted snow hill more than anything. all i see are non-uniform wall-type things with some kind of really half-assed looking structure nestled into the side of a cliff. try harder with your architecture. the poly distribution between terrain detail and structure geometry is disturbing. try again there.

[Sel]

and unless you're running a pc from 6 years ago



Which I was until last week :D

[PenGuin1362]

definitely needs a lot more detail and structures don't entirely resemble forerunner (as previously stated) but it does seem like a rather original idea. keep working.

[§partan 8]

polycount doesn't really matter much for an entire map. that's what portals are for, and unless you're running a pc from 6 years ago, the computers can take it without even a hint of effort.

lol i am using a pc that is just about 5 years old

P4 3.07 ghz
512ram
intergraded video memory
windows XP



thats one of the reasons why i cant work high poly maps, but I'll try my best

[343guiltymc]

lol i am using a pc that is just about 5 years old

P4 3.07 ghz
512ram
intergraded video memory
windows XP



thats one of the reasons why i cant work high poly maps, but I'll try my best
You need a new PC.

[Sel]

Overall, Id say the map has potential, but something just looks wrong there... Cant put my finger on it.

Anyway, the forerunner structures need more detail, and dont post texture pics, until you texture it properly, it doesnt look that nice with the same one over and over :(

[jngrow]

The actual layout of the map is very nice! Keep going!

[Llama Juice]

the layout is a circle. that makes the map gameplay way too linear. Try something a little more intricate.

EDIT: I confused everyone that read this aparently, so... I'll explain it.....

I was saying that if you have a circle for a map... it becomes a pointless "battle"

The only possible "strategy" you can have with that map is "well I went left last time... let's mix it up and go right this time"

[SnaFuBAR]

the layout is a circle. that makes the map way too linear. Try something a little more intricate.
i lol'd.

hard.

[PenGuin1362]

......:XD::XD::XD:

[Llama Juice]

*sigh*... you know what I mean.

gameplay?.... *sigh*

/tired

[Sever]

I was going to give a long and zealous post about proper level design, including the setting, concept, layout, combat flow, and population, but I just don't give a fuck anymore. If anyone needs any help/critique with layout, pm me or whatnot. Other than that, I'm done with trying to help people with level design, unless I see something with potential. Good day.

[Higuy]

looks auseome keep up the work dude. i like maps that have there own kinda thing, like every modeler has there own style.

[Gwunty]

UVW is horrible
shaders dont look that good either
but everything else looks good
I see some valhalla wall in those pics
ohh and needs more textures
I see 3 ids in those pics

[Llama Juice]

UVW is horrible
shaders dont look that good either
but everything else looks good
I see some valhalla wall in those pics
ohh and needs more textures
I see 3 ids in those pics

You obviously can tell that this is a WIP. If there are things that are extremely obvious (like how he hasn't textured the map yet) don't even bother pointing it out.

I know I sound like an ass, but it's like telling someone that they just fell down.

[Umt~Wolf]

UVW is horrible
shaders dont look that good either
but everything else looks good
I see some valhalla wall in those pics
ohh and needs more textures
I see 3 ids in those pics
LOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL..
Wait let me lol some more in a txt file..

k done..What are you saying??Lol you wont even do better..Since youre own map "valhalla" or what-so-ever you wanna call it is just a ugly mugly fugly uvw´ed,smoothed ever..So pleas go and cry in a corner.

[TeeKup]

the layout is a circle. that makes the map way too linear. Try something a little more intricate.

....I'm sorry what?

[JunkfoodMan]

I think what he's trying to say is that there aren't any other directions to go except forward or backwards. The layout needs more variety, like Death Island has. I think.

[Umt~Wolf]

I think it looks good..Althougt its still the structures:PBut atleast you know how too model..Keep it up:D

[Sever]

The layout needs more variety, like Death Island has.

Death Island is an extremely low standard to live up to - two bases without any interconnectivitiy, and even less connection to the central area on the map. The level has no strategic combat flow - it was put in just because people liked to drive Warthogs on The Silent Cartographer Co-Op. Words to the unwise: Don't make a map for just one activity. DEFFINITELY don't make a map based on a map made for just one activity.


But atleast you know how too model.

Lies. Blasphemous lies.

I believe I'm done with this thread for now, unless there are any more poor unguided/deluded souls that I have to attempt to save from the false beckonings of poor mapping.

[Umt~Wolf]

please learn the beuty of gameplay.Just because Death island is shitty and ugly does not mean its not a great map for the gameplay and the ones that dares too take the challenge..Wich you obviously dont.

[JunkfoodMan]

Death Island is an extremely low standard to live up to - two bases without any interconnectivitiy, and even less connection to the central area on the map. The level has no strategic combat flow - it was put in just because people liked to drive Warthogs on The Silent Cartographer Co-Op. Words to the unwise: Don't make a map for just one activity. DEFFINITELY don't make a map based on a map made for just one activity.

I was giving an example. I never said to make a level resembling Death island's layout, just to take into account the paths to each base, etc.

[LlamaMaster]

Death island is not ugly. Death island is not shitty. Death island is one of my favorite maps.

[Gwunty]

wish people would shut up about my valhalla
its not perfect yet but its getting much better
and sorry for not noting that its a work in progress

[Llama Juice]

....I'm sorry what?


*sigh*... you know what I mean.

gameplay?.... *sigh*

/tired

... I'll go edit that actual post... I suppose..

[Con]

please learn the beuty of gameplay.Just because Death island is shitty and ugly does not mean its not a great map for the gameplay and the ones that dares too take the challenge..Wich you obviously dont.
Sorry, Death Island's gameplay is about as atrocious as your spelling. It's not balanced for people who prefer to travel by foot, and they're often killed by some kid in a banshee after the other team takes both of them. Maybe that's why you like it? :eyesroll:

[Umt~Wolf]

Not rly..Im not saying i like it..I just said it has good gameplay..As all the Stock maps got..Sorta..(not everyone;))

[Sever]

Half of the stock maps have terrible gameplay for a good deal of settings. Ever try to play Oddball on Boarding Action? How about Elimination on Gephyrophobia? Shotgun CTF on Infinity? FFA Slayer on Death Island? The only maps that I can ever see as worthy are the ones that can hold their own for any gametype. Of the stock H1 maps, Battle Creek, Blood Gulch (even though its simple as fuck, yet brilliant at the same time), Chill Out, Damnation, Derelict (even though I personally hate it), Hang 'Em High, and Rat Race come to my mind. Every one of the basic gametypes, and just about every variation therein, can be easily played on these maps due to: their numerous intricate areas that force many extremely heated, yet always unique battle sequences; and how each of these areas connects to, flows into, counters, and synergizes the rest. Please learn the foundations of map design before you even start to judge a map as worthy or not.

[TeeKup]

I dunno what you're talking about but Phantom Elimination on Gephy was epic.