Hi! New map, need testers NEXT week

[MMFSdjw]

I need to beta a map I've been working on.
Called Solus Christus
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v182/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33636497_2210.jpg
I tested an alpha version a while back and I'm hoping this will be the final version.

I still have to run lightmaps again, that screenshot is with 1 0.9 quality so it only compiled the skylight and running 1 0.09 is going to take a couple days.
So I want to try and set up a game a week from today (thursday(31st) or friday(1st)) and run the compile while I'm out of town monday and tuesday.

So, any takers?

Just post a time you'd be able to play on thursday and/or friday and be sure to include your time zone. I'm in CST.

Let me know.

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

It looks nice! Which thursday though? im free on weekends thursdays, and some weekdays, not fridays though until later, im in EST linky?
Also, if you need someone with a 1337 pc that has 4.2 ghz proscessor, tell me and ill run the lightmaps for you if you want

[PlasbianX]

DO WANT :O. Id rep but Jcap banned me from giving rep to people.

EST time zone though :S

[Sever]

Count me in. I give great feedback and can help with weapon/player spawns.

After consulting my class schedule, I'll be free Thursday/Friday from 18:00-02:00 EST and probably all of Friday after 10:00 EST.

[Syuusuke]

Sure (I'm EST, Eastern Sexual Time)

[Gamerkd16]

I'm probably good on Friday. I'm in EST.

[Invader Veex]

Looks nice, but I can pass on the testing. though it would be nice and I'm in the same time zone.

[Ki11a_FTW]

Ill be glad to test. I also have very strong broadband connection and can host up to 12-14 players

I can also get a dedi up if its needed

And im eastern

[ExAm]

I'd like to, but I'm on non-gameable internet right now, and I will be for the next two weeks. I'd lag everyone straight to hell if I joined :P

[Lightning]

"running 1 0.09 is going to take a couple days."

Should only take like..30 minutes tops o__o;; what setup are you running?

[CtrlAltDestroy]

And make sure your environmental shaders have the "Simple Parameterization" flag checked.

I've made that mistake more than I'd like to count. :(

[Con]

I remember this map. Glad to see the ball rolling again :)

[Bastinka]

Called Solus Christus

:lmao:

I'll test! :] (GMT -05:00) EST

[MMFSdjw]

0.9 took about 5mins. but 0.09 started at 01.23.08 15:07:38 and reached 0.245674 at 01.24.08 13:53:09.
That's more than 22 hours.
my pc was top of the line about 3 or 4 years ago. but it's all I've got.


And make sure your environmental shaders have the "Simple Parameterization" flag checked.
Never heard of doing that. What does it do?

[Bad Waffle]

i can help with lightmaps, check my computer stats if you need some convincing :)

[Scooby Doo]

pick me!!!

lol...

[MMFSdjw]

Ok, so lets do this, HERE (http://www.wku.edu/~wilkidj/maps/solus_christus_source.zip) are the tag files. Everything SHOULD be there. If it's not, let me know.
Keep in mind the skybox is not finished.
Wave of Lag and lone wolf, how about both of you try to run a full compile and see who finishes.
I'm still going to run 0.09 and hope that it finishes.
Also, just for those who are curious, HERE (http://www.wku.edu/~wilkidj/maps/solus_alpha_christus_b.rar) is the previous version.

[4RT1LL3RY]

Maybe one of you could use Jahrain's lightmap baking tool (http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8067). It makes smexy shadows. And it takes much less time then it otherwise would. I want to try this map. :iia:

[Timo]

Ok, so lets do this, HERE (http://www.wku.edu/%7Ewilkidj/maps/solus_christus_source.zip) are the tag files. Everything SHOULD be there. If it's not, let me know.

There are some shaders missing from the \tags\ directory (thought i'd give it a go as neither of them are on ;))

[MMFSdjw]

can you tell me which ones?

[Timo]

So far it's just "tags\sc_teleporter_cone.shader_transparent_chicago _extended", but I figured that more would pop up along the line, although I haven't done this in a long time.

[Sever]

Have you done any play-area-affecting geometry changes since the alpha? If not, I can honestly say that the map has way too many open areas that also act as confined spaces and too many long hallways/corridors to be entertaining to play on. I'm just going to stop there with the problems before I go into one of my horrendously long posts about proper level design - you might have fixed them for all I know. The map definitely has potential, whether you've made any bsp changes or not. The camo/overshield area is definitely inspired by Hang 'Em High, and that is a good thing. It worked then, and it will work again now. Again, if anyone wants to talk level design with me, feel free to pm me.

[MMFSdjw]

I've made some changes, but acctualy none of it was inspierd by heh, so I don't really know what you're talking about. try the beta_b in my previous post and tell me what you think.

[Sever]

If you are talking about this http://www.wku.edu/~wilkidj/maps/solus_alpha_christus_b.rar then I did. If there is a more recent download to an immediately playable map, then please redirect me. The bunker which houses the Active Camouflage, along with the pathway in front of it reminded me of Hang 'Em High's bunker and catwalks, along with the fact that it was the almost only area with any real vertical combat in the whole level, and was neatly contained in a boxed-off section (much like HEH). I have seen some of your past work, and it all had potential, but a good amount of the combat areas just barely had enough multi-level interaction and usually had too much ground to travel within/between these areas. I would recommend working on player movement, line of sight, and vertical layout a bit more. In the long run, a few simple changes in layout can make an acceptable map into a great map.

[MMFSdjw]

I do admit I have a fault when it come to vertical play. I'd be happy to hear specific suggestions.

[MMFSdjw]

Ok, just so yall know. it's compiling right now, I started it saturday night and on sunday night when I left it was at 0.23something.
Have you guys had any luck compiling it on your own?

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

Nope, none whatsoever

[MMFSdjw]

Are you still getting that same error or something else? Missing files?

[Bad Waffle]

Something about your RAR made all the files difficult to extract. Also, you left no documentation on where to put files T_T

[MMFSdjw]

oh, sorry, guess I didn't think about that. Never done it before.
Well, the file was a zip file, not a rar. I don't know what would have made it difficult to extract. Everything should go in the folder that it's in. everything in the 'tags' folder should go in the 'tags' folder scenery in the scenery folder etc. the solus christus folder should go in the 'levels' folder.

[Bad Waffle]

finished final radiosity.

[Ki11a_FTW]

:picsorstfu:

[Bad Waffle]

i dont need pics :|

[MMFSdjw]

Yay! I hoped to be back home tonight but the weather is not cooperating right now.
Hopefully I'll be able to get back in a couple hours.

Would it work if you just emailed me the lightmaps.bitmap?

[Bad Waffle]

sure, PM me your email. I'll send both the bsp and the lightmaps.

[LlamaMaster]

I'll beta if you need me. I won't leak or anything.......or will I? Naw I won't.

[MMFSdjw]

lol, when we test I'll post the link to the public. there's no worry of leakage.
speaking of that, who would be avalible friday and what times?

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

I Might be availiable friday at 10 or 11, but if i still have the flu, all day

[Sever]

I'll be available all Friday and will be able to give more specific suggestions at that time. Also, sorry about the ambiguousness of the PM, I was in an off-mood that day, and was pressed for time.

[MMFSdjw]

That's alright, no harm done.

but anyway.

Lone Wolf, do you mean AM or PM?

Right now I have nothing planned for friday so my entire day is open.
HERE (http://www.wku.edu/~wilkidj/maps/solus_christus_beta_a.rar) is the map with WoL's lightmaps. it looks nice and makes me happy.
Get familiar with it and get ready to play on friday.

And just cause I can, screenshots
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v188/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33657533_9376.jpg
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v188/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33657534_9694.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v188/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33657535_9983.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v188/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33657536_274.jpg

[Sever]

Everything is looking a lot better, but I still see a whole bunch of little issues here and there, but nothing that will break the map. just little improvements. If you're still open to working with the geometry of the level, some areas could be scaled down/cropped just a tad to make the gameplay a bit more tighter. Also, on an odd note, try experimenting with unbreakable glass along the back alleyways and corridors to allow players to find their targets easier, without being able to directly shoot them. I've found that being able to see your enemy and not kill them can make some very interesting situations (the glass hallway on Ivory Tower and the flag ladders on Yoyorast Island come to mind immediately - I'm using chain-link fencing on my current endeavor).

[MMFSdjw]

I am still open to geometry changes. Kinda depends.
Take some screenshots and red line them.

I get what your saying about the glass thing, but I can't really think of anywhere it'd be useful. I'm assuming you mean placing it so that it does not block off hallways right?

[Sever]

I'm saying replace some parts of preexisting walls with it. Not the whole walls, though. Kinda like the windows on Prisoner, but without the glass being able to break (and being much thicker).

[MMFSdjw]

oh, ok.

[Bad Waffle]

purday map, mmfsdjw. i shall get used to the gameplay.

[Ki11a_FTW]

So when is this test?

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

also, fyi its pm

[MMFSdjw]

So when is this test?
Friday evening.

We have one for 10-11pm.
Anyone NOT avalible at that time?

[Ki11a_FTW]

which timezone

[LlamaMaster]

which timezone
Central I believe. If so, that would be perfect for me.

[Sel]

Im good for friday evening to.

Anytime between 4 and 9 at (-5)

Looks pretty nice.

[MMFSdjw]

Yeah, I"m in CST.

Killa, you said you could host?

[Teh Ganon]

If you need a host, I can put this on one of my dedis for the test. You can choose between:

St. Louis
Los Angeles
Tampa

Let me know, so I can upload it ahead of time :)

[Syuusuke]

11PM CST? Hell no, that's 12AM EST, and thats extended nap time.

10PM CST, sure, what about a time before?

[MMFSdjw]

Maybe we could run it from 8-11CST?
Folk could come and go as they need to and we could try more game types too.

[Syuusuke]

Oh MAN you're school's (if it is your school's) network is slow =/

[MMFSdjw]

Oh MAN you're school's (if it is your school's) network is slow =/

Huh?

[Ki11a_FTW]

Yeah, I"m in CST.

Killa, you said you could host?

I can host, but im eastern

[MMFSdjw]

is 9-12EST a problem?
What time would be good for you?

[MMFSdjw]

The time approcheth, are we good to go?

[Sever]

Aye.

[{SYS}sarge]

me wanna test(i've already played this kinda map)

[LlamaMaster]

Yah I'm ready. Link to d/l?

[MMFSdjw]

http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showpost.php?p=217192&postcount=40

[Syuusuke]

I'm down with that.

OH what? CIA made a server and locked it, way to include us.

[LlamaMaster]

Wtf is the password.

[MMFSdjw]

I"m totaly out of the loop here.
What are we doin' guys?

[LlamaMaster]

I"m totaly out of the loop here.
What are we doin' guys?
You tell me? I don't know.

[Syuusuke]

Eh, whatever, I have my server up, I'll just screw around until there are more than 6 people.

[Jay2645]

Alright, just got out of a test session with... Well, you.

But some things I didn't bring up in the session:
1. It's a nice map, but it's easy to get lost. I started to get used to it near the end, but it's a complex map, one that will require many sessions to completely learn, like Yoyorast Island.
2. I'm not too thrilled about the textures. I know I told you this already, but they seem.... Mismatched. Some look like Halo textures, others appear almost cel-shaded.
3. The fog off the cliffs looks a little too much like the ground texture. I almost fell off multiple times because I thought there was a bit more space.
4. Extend the flag base out a little more. I went for the flag once, and (Someone whose identity he didn't want me to reveal) killed me as soon as I got it, and I watched as it fell off the edge, to the despair of my teammate, who just fought his way across the map.
5. For the love of God, FIX THAT SPAWN POINT THAT SPAWNS YOU IN THE AIR!

Other then that, I'm loving the map. Keep it up!

[LlamaMaster]

The main thing that bothered me were the hugeness and the textures. There seemed to be a lot of useless rooms, and the texturing was just horrible.

[PlasbianX]

The main thing that bothered me were the hugeness and the textures. There seemed to be a lot of useless rooms, and the texturing was just horrible.
Indeed. And now heres my suggestions for the maps:
There are a LOT of useless areas. At the same time, I demonstrated how i can capture the flag in around 20 seconds. To change this, id make these suggestions:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6480/change2ld2.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7996/change1nv5.jpg

As demonstrated in these two shots, the area here needs to be changed. Align the bottom area with the top walk way as shown, and remove all the other area. This will keep you from dropping down to the lower level to shave off a serious amount of time. And at the same time, this will force the team to backtrack through a lot of your unused rooms.

Now this will screw up the other area and give a slight imbalance. So then, the ramp needs to be rotated to the left as well as an area cutout on top of the ramp so you can actually run up it.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7018/ramprq5.jpg

This will completely eliminate that quick capturing, as well as forcing this team to go back into the unused areas, as well as force them to go out near where you placed your snipers giving whoever is controlling that point a tactical advantage.


And then also, I feel these need changed:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5753/wires1ps3.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/989/wires2uq5.jpg



If this is supposed to be forerunner, those wires just don't fit well with the overall feel of the map. Thanks for the beta though


~plas.

[MMFSdjw]

ok, well, just so ya know, it's not ment to be forerunner, or human. It's supposed to be inspired by forerunner but still seem to be something different. However, this idea has givin way to my poor textureing ability.

I found the spawn, that's fixed.

Thanks for all the help, I'll put in some work and yall keep posting suggestions.

[Sever]

Here are some of my suggestions on level design. Mind you, they are my opinions, and definitely not 'the right way' to go about creating a map, but might be able to give anyone some help, hopefully.

When designing a map, use CTF as the starting point and lay out the paths from one flag to another, then find ways to interconnect them, thus creating a central combat area. Use weapon placement, useful vantage points, and cover from said vantage points and weapons to spread the combat out and pull players off of the quickest and most obvious paths.

A player should always be able to identify where they are immediately when they spawn. Area-specific architecture, lighting, or scenery is always a must. Unreachable areas, either above or below the player, can also be good visual cues without directly interfering with the combat area.

Give your map some meaning. It is best to think of a theme and let it help you determine the general layout. Often, however, the layout comes first, and thus you must look at your map and try to give it an underlying function without detracting from the gameplay. Incorporating function into a strategic layout is the most desired outcome, but it is often just not possible. Unreachable areas can be quite useful for displaying function without hindering the combat area.

Be concise. Make sure that every area in your map has a moderate potential for being used. if you find an area that is not receiving attention, but is still necessary for the theme, either change the weapon/player/vehicle spawns or teleporter locations to bring the area into use, or cut the area off from gameplay with a logical barrier (chain-link fence, energy field, unbreakable glass, etc.). If it does not effect the theme nor is necessary to gameplay, don't be hesitant to remove it.

Alright, now for my specific suggestions:
1. Make every area of the map a possible route for the player to want to travel. I always found myself heading towards the middle and nowhere else. Most of the back paths serve no purpose. Delete the unused ones, and scale down the moderately used ones. The open areas are fine as is, bar PlasbianX's comments. Good ideas there, Plas.
2. Don't mix textures and architectural styles. Is it Forerunner or Human? I like the massive and monolithic feel, but I also like the intricate wires, pipes and crates. Decide on what direction you want to take it and run with it.
3. Have higher rewards for the players using the outlying paths. All of the weapons and power-ups were located pretty centrally, or easily teleported to from the main combat areas. Make sure each weapon is logically placed in relation to all of the others and the spawn points. You don't want some players to spawn with immediate access to only Needlers and a healthpack, while others can get the Rocket Launcher, Overshield and Sniper Rifle in under 20 seconds (just an example). Try and use scenery and layout to designate where weapons spawn. Having the Sniper Rifle located in the tower is good, now do the same with the other high-caliber weapons.

Thats all for now I guess. Its definitely not a horrible map, but its also nowhere near what I would consider worthy yet. Don't take that harshly, I just have an extremely high standard for level design. Keep on pluggin' and you'll get it to where it needs to be.

Best of luck to you and anyone else reading this that is thinking about making a map,
sever323

[Teh Ganon]

I'm down with that.

OH what? CIA made a server and locked it, way to include us.

I offered to host a public beta but I got no reply.

But I can tell you from what I noticed about the map and gameplay. First of all, half the map is useless and I completely agree with plas's geometry suggestion. The map kind of reminds me of damnation, as in one team having an advantage over the other. I felt the teleporters could of been a bit more thought out on locations. Then there was the spawn that doesnt even spawn u on land... gg. It was a lot of fun though, make sure you are careful where u place the weapon spawns as well. This map has some nice gameplay potential if some changes do happen!

[MMFSdjw]

Sorry about no replying to ya, Killa posted first and sounded like he could do it and... well. Where's he gone anyway?

That spawn acctualy was on land, it was on the second level right in front of the spiral ramp there there is a gap about half the player hight. I had placed the spawn there then later added the geometry that blocked the player. And well, that's why we have betas.

[MMFSdjw]

Hey, made some changes. Need opinoins.
http://photos-111.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v197/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33680762_9159.jpg

Here is the new barrier devideing the big area in the middle.
There are large planes of unbreakable glass and I removed the ramp.
The area highlighted in yellow is the area in question.
you can crouch jump up there and get to the other side. origninaly planed to block that off with a pile of pipes.

does that make sense?
Just kinda uncertain. thoughts?

[edit] had another thought.
Being able to get accross there could still lead to quick caps because the red flag is on the first floor.
So, I'm thinking about raising the red flag to the second floor so forcing anyone who comes over that way(the yellow highlighted above) to atleast go over to the spiral ramp to get up to the flag.
Does that make sense?

[MMFSdjw]

ok, hi again.
I've made alot of changes.
I completely removed that back hallway cause I couldn't think of a way to make it useful. So it's gone. In it's place is a lovely view of... well... stuff.
I raised the red flag to the second level. I'm thinking of moving more red spawns to the first level around where the flag used to be just so the area is not completely worthless.
I'd love to hear yalls opinions/ideas on how to make that area useful.
I plan to just delete all the weapon spawns and start over with those because I can't even remember where they all are. And I may do the same with player spawns too.
So then, pics.
New flag area
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v197/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33691064_2105.jpg
New back hallway
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v197/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33691065_2616.jpg
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v197/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33691066_3145.jpg
This area used to open up into that hallway
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v197/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33691068_3448.jpg
Outside where the hallway used to be.(ignore uv errors)
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v197/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33691069_4024.jpg
And finaly there.
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v197/30/120/41113111/n41113111_33691070_4646.jpg

[Sever]

Maybe a weaponless version with only two player spawns (one at each flag) would be helpful for deciding spawn layout. Make a quick build and we can run around and screen-shot where we think they should go. That is, if you want to do it that way.

Also, try making the under-red-flag area an effective escape path. Put a teleporter entrance there that leads to about mid-field, but still easily within red team's grasp.

[TeeKup]

When I look at those pics, it gives me the sensation that this is in the map Abyss Final somewhere.

[MMFSdjw]

Sever, that's a good idea and I might do that if there are major problems with this version. But for now, lets give this one a try.
DOWNLOAD HERE (http://www.wku.edu/~wilkidj/maps/solus_christus_beta_b.rar)

I added a one way teleport under the red flag. I have not yet removed all those little wires that everyone hates (still kinda disapointed that noone likes those) but I will redo them, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. There are also a number of smaller geometry & texture changes I intend to make but I don't think they'll effect the gameplay.

So... thoughts? Want to organise a game?

[Sever]

I like the wires! Just don't use them with Forerunner-style texture and architecture. DL'd, will view later.

[MMFSdjw]

Had a chance to look at that yet?

[Sever]

Yes, and there are some major improvements along the back hallways, but the central area went to crap. I honestly can't find how the combat is supposed to flow from one area to another anymore. The teleporter layout is completely unintuitive. I don't have any good idea of where I'm going to end up when I go through one. Use area-specific colored lighting on each pair. The weapon spawns are definitely better, though, if thats any help, but I think you need to completely re-evaluate the layout, while still maintaining the aesthetic resources you have created. And make the Forerunner metal texture less watery and a lighter grey.

[beele]

nice map, too bad I haven't got ce installed atm.


I'll try to find my cd of ce again, and give it a try.

[MMFSdjw]

Ok. Take a look at THIS (http://www.wku.edu/~wilkidj/maps/layout.jpg). This is the current layout.
The first thing I can think of is opening the first floor back up, maybe closing off the second floor around that area with unbreakable glass.
Without that ramp it should remove the quick cap.
I'm open to suggestions.

[Sever]

Add me on xfire or aim and we'll talk. This map needs serious help layout-wise. Too much of Blue's half is either too damn complicated to be functional, or too unnecessary to matter (teleporters included). You have now also made it where there are two distinct choke points on the map, both being right in clear view of the sniping tower, which Red has immediate access to. The artistic aspects have been improving, though.

[MMFSdjw]

ok I get what you're saying. I never thought about the sniper tower.
I'll take some time and think this through a bit more.

[SuperSunny]

I must say, this map is fantastic!

You spent a lot of quality time working on parts that are usually missing in most maps. I did a flyby in dev-mode and I love the design of it!

The only things I would suggest a change in is the use of textures. The lighting, I love. The design, I love. The feel, I love. The map itself is just damn cool! As sever said, the layout should be adjusted a bit. The blue side does seem complicated.

For example, for the textures, the black ship-style texture with the rough bumps should be modified a bit. The bumps, for example, would look better if they were clean and uniform rather than rough.

[MMFSdjw]

Thanks!
You mean the texture that's on the vast majority of the walls and exterior?
How uniform do you mean?
That bump is acctualy taken right out of boarding action.

Also, just so ya know, I don't be able to do anything to it for a alittle bit cause my pc just kicked the bucket. I have no reason to think the hard drives were harmed at all but I'm stuck on my laptop for the time being.

[t3h m00kz]

The textures and whatnot are sort of bland, but the overall level design is very, very interesting.. Seems very close-range, similar to the levels of Halo 3.

Now you just need some custom weapons... ;O Even modifying existing tags can go a long, long way.

[MMFSdjw]

There'll be no custom weapons. I'm just not even going there.
At the very most I would modify the textures of the original weapons but I don't really even want to do that.

[MMFSdjw]

Hey, I want yall's opinions.
Altered layout (http://www.wku.edu/~wilkidj/layout.jpg)
I can't do anything to the map itself til I get the new parts for my PC.
till then tell me what you think of this. moving the blue flag to the blue circle in the upper middle. And to avoid making anyone coming over that ridge a sniper target I could add a ladder on the right.

Where the flag was I could put another sniper or oversheild or something like that.

I also removed the wall in the middle since it was there to prevent the quick cap.

Thoughts?

[Sever]

It honestly doesn't matter where you put the flags or how many minor layout changes you make. The map (in my opinion) makes no sense. Since you do not have any vehicles, you should try and start with clean-cut paths from area to area, then work from there to make the paths interact, connect, and counter each other. When your comp is back up to par, start anew with the overall layout and design.

[PlasbianX]

I think we need another big game to test the layout again.

[MMFSdjw]

Could someone do me a favor and post a screenshot for me?
I need a shot from the red dot below, looking where the arrow is pointing.
http://www.wku.edu/~wilkidj/layoutscreen.jpg
If yall could do it with a larger FOV and in debug cam w/o the hud, that would be a wonderful help.