is there a wai?

[paintballakid5]

Hey, i'm working on a kool map right now, and i'm putting it in-game, just to see how it's coming along. And i get Degenerate Triangles...:( i got 10 degenerate Triangles, how do i find them in 3ds max? or is there even a way to do that?

[Ki11a_FTW]

import debug.wrl into 3ds max, the blue is where the errors are

[Roostervier]

An easy way to fix them, once identified, is a low-threshold vertex welding (or that's just what I've found to be easy).

[paintballakid5]

import debug.wrl into 3ds max, the blue is where the errors are

Ok, i can find the mapname.wrl but no debug.wrl

and when i import the mapname.wrl, i get like lil Lines in 3ds....:(

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264/paintballakid5/map.jpg


P.S. you can see the Lines on the bottom Left of the picture.. kinda right Below the Map.

[SuperSunny]

The lines are supposed to represent the edges of where the errors are, or faces if it's overlapping error. If the error appears in Sapien, about UV's when lightmapping, it goes to debug.wrl. If it's in Tool, about open edges and whatnot, it's usually in mapname.wrl

Those errors of yours, as it seems in that picture, appear to be edges that are stranded outside of the model. Delete them in the model.

[paintballakid5]

Well that picture is the MapName.wrl, and i Merged the map model itself, so all i get is the lines when i import the mapname.wrl. Also when i open the Map model by itself, i look for Edges out side of the mode, but non are there, i think the Problem might be my sky, so i'm gonna try and re-make the sky.

[Ki11a_FTW]

when you go to import it , uncheck everything, and you import DEBUG.wrl not mapname (mapname is for bsp errors)

EDIT: also, if you dont see debug.wrl, make sure UAC is off (if your on vista)

[paintballakid5]

when you go to import it , uncheck everything, and you import DEBUG.wrl not mapname (mapname is for bsp errors)

EDIT: also, if you dont see debug.wrl, make sure UAC is off (if your on vista)

nope i don't see Debug.wrl but i have Mapname.wrl, and when i import it it looks like this..

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264/paintballakid5/Lines.jpg

[Apoc4lypse]

I've never used a debug.wrl in my life for as long as I've been modeling for ce..

Ok make sure you have your map opened up, go to import, and import the mapname.wrl file with all the boxes unchecked. You should now see the .wrl geometry or what ever over your model indicating where there are errors. I personally don't recall ever having to deal with degenerate triangles though. The hek tutorial should say what they are and how to fix them too, and what color they should appear as in the wrl file.

Another thing that never hurts is using the stl check modifier on your map to look for errors. I have a sort of system to how I model, always make sure the geometry is clean and makes sense, if the wire frame is all jumbled up your going to get errors, and always stl check thoroughly and I rarely ever have to import .wrl files because my geometry rarely has errors due to using stl check. Although sometimes I may get overlapping faces on an accident.

EDIT: alright yeah, listen to kenney he knows more about this then me I think. I've never delt with degenerate triangles from running radiosity.

[kenney001]

The only degenerate triangles you need to worry about are the ones tool or sapien give you when you try to run radiosity. If its not when you are running radiosity, and the ones it gives you when you structure, build cache, or gbxmodel, you can ignore them.

Also, only the ones generated durring a radiosity attempt will create a debug.wrl

[paintballakid5]

the ones it gives you when you structure, build cache, or gbxmodel, you can ignore them.l


How can ignore them when I get this error


http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264/paintballakid5/error.jpg

[SnaFuBAR]

you don't. go back into max and fix your open edges.

[Tweek]

honestly.. read the fucking tutorial.

[paintballakid5]

you don't. go back into max and fix your open edges.

Well thats the Problem i'm Having...

when i'm In 3dsmax i'll try the STL check, and i get no errors. and when i import the mapname.wrl, i see lines which are no where in the map model itself..

[Apoc4lypse]

What you said...


blah blah blah And i get Degenerate Triangles... blah blah blah, how do i find them in 3ds max? or is there even a way to do that?

What tool said


http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1770/wtfxxgp7.jpg

:XD:

Also to make this more clear...


The only degenerate triangles you need to worry about are the ones tool or sapien give you when you try to run radiosity. The ones it gives you when you structure, build cache, or gbxmodel, you can ignore them.

Also more lolz... http://quizrocket.com/dumb-test?gatherer_id=100358

imageshack.org popup.

Ok now that I got that off my chest... we can get back to business.

Your problem is you have open edges 18 so far according to tool that need to fix.

.wrl files are markers that get imported and mark the geometry you need to fix. So those red lines = open edge errors in your geometry. If those lines are floating out in space that means you have edges floating out in space doing nothing causing open edge errors. Or you imported the .wrl file wrong. Again when you import the .wrl file make sure all of the boxes are unchecked on the import options.

[paintballakid5]

ok, i re-made the Sky, and umm i tried to re-build the Cache file and again, i have Degenerate Triangles....:rolleyes:

so heres where they are now..



http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264/paintballakid5/linesagain.jpg

[Corndogman]

theres probably 3 vertices in a row on the top, that are triangulated together but are in a straight line. this causes degenerate faces. move the middle vert outwards so it makes a triangle. it should be fine then.

[Ki11a_FTW]

ok, i re-made the Sky, and umm i tried to re-build the Cache file and again, i have Degenerate Triangles....:rolleyes:

so heres where they are now..



http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264/paintballakid5/linesagain.jpg

Arent the open edges displayed as red, and degenrates are blue?

[p0lar_bear]

when i'm In 3dsmax i'll try the STL check

STL check is by far the most useless modifier I've ever seen for checking video game assets. I know you said you're having trouble with the WRL, but you should never trust the STL check.

[Apoc4lypse]

STL check is by far the most useless modifier I've ever seen for checking video game assets. I know you said you're having trouble with the WRL, but you should never trust the STL check.

I don't understand why some people hate this thing lol

works fine for me :confused2:

[paintballakid5]

it works fin for me, but unless I have Degenerate Triangles.... then it kinda is useless...

and btw EP_Killa ummm your gonna have to tell me, cuz i don't know wether or not the Differences between Colors..

if anyone could think of anything, i would apreciate it, cuz I kinda like that Layout of this map, and i would like to get in-Game.:D

[kenney001]

Ok quit talking about your degenerate triangles. Those you can ignore. Your main problem is your open edges.....

[paintballakid5]

Ok quit talking about your degenerate triangles. Those you can ignore. Your main problem is your open edges.....


ok:rolleyes: again, i don't know how to fix whatever your telling me to fix..

i've tried remaking the sky, and nuthin seems to help at all.. just a lil bit of guidance here.

[Apoc4lypse]

dear god...

*opens up 3dsmax & photo shop*

*5 mins later*
Heres a mini tut I threw together...
erhm... its a little big so, don't be surprised when you open it...
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5083/stlcheckerrorminitutorivk6.jpg


Alright, thats what an open edge error is. Open edge errors is your problem. The #degenerate triangles you can ignore in that tool message. The part that counts is all the #ERROR open edge found etc etc etc...

As for using a .wrl file thats up to you if you can't find the errors. I would personally run an stl check first and see what gets highlighted by that. Then fix what ever is wrong there. Afterwards if that didn't work I would import the .wrl file, its going to import red lines. These red lines are markers, indicating where the errors are on your geometry that you need to fix. The same way stl check highlights edges for you, except a .wrl file uses mesh lines to show you instead.

Also I'm not sure I could give you much more guidance unless you actually sent me the 3ds max file and I did it, or I held your hand and did it. Or made a video and showed you... but since videos take to long, I gave you a picture.