Mysterious tool error

[Rob Oplawar]

Ok, since Vista is being a bitch (as always), I'm still working with Bridge CE in Halo CE.

I'm working on a big, very complex room (which I am told is win =D ) but when I try to structure the bsp, I get an error: Overlapping faces. Well, I've had and fixed this error before, but this time I import the debug file and it highlights a certain face near the center of the bsp. The face is very definitely there by itself, not overlapping anything, and definitely does not have duplicate triangles or degenerate triangles or open seams or double edges or anything.

Well, I figure this is a minor bug, so I just turn a couple of edges to fudge it for now, as the bsp is still far from done. But I get the same error again, and this time it highlights another face. I turn some more edges, and still the error on yet another face. I've done this several times now, just to be sure it really was a persistent error.

I figure this is related to a warning I'm getting:
WARNING found possible T-junction.



... anybody know what to do?

... lol it just occurred to me to use Google. brb with what I find there...

Back: got nothin.


Edit: also, I really really wanna see this room ingame so I can start some testing so I can progress it to a near finished state soon. So, er, uh, halp! It's so close to ingame!
Edit edit: aha, also, I'm putting this in here to remind myself to post the solution I eventually find in the Wiki,

[Jay2645]

Hmm... Never heard that before.
Maybe you have 2 faces intersecting like this: + rather then this: -|.
Not sure if that's the problem, in fact, I don't even think it is, but that's the only thing I can think of.
Interesting error.

[Rob Oplawar]

Hm, so I've continued working on the bsp, and I've added about 1000 polygons to a different area, and tried structuring it again, and it's still giving me the same error with the same faces highlighted as overlapping, so at this point I doubt it's just some random tool bug, so there must be something wrong with those faces. I did create that area using a lot of pro boolean, and that may have had some adverse effect on the region.

Still looking into what to do about it...

[CodeBrain]

....NEVER. EVER. USE. BOOLEAN. EVAR!!!!!!


No, Seriously, never use boolean, it causes open faces.

The only way of saving your map is by recreating those faces in 3ds max (or gmax), with polygon create tool.

Wish you luck...

[LAXattck74]

!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am having this same error too! I HATE IT! I am actually taking something from a different map and its creating overlapping faces. I made sure I had all the material names correct with all the add on things. This is really ****ed up! Someone needs to edit tool.exe's code so it doesn't see these errors... I am afraid I will have to restart on the map im making.

[Jay2645]

Tool gives those errors for a reason, if it bypassed them, the map would look like crap.

[CodeBrain]

^
II Look up to see what is wrong.

Edit: LoL we posted at the same time! O.o

[LAXattck74]

Tool gives those errors for a reason, if it bypassed them, the map would look like crap.

ya, it would definitely look like crap if there were errors like open edges and stuff. But what I'm saying is to use it for something like these errors where nothing looks wrong or anything, just tools being odd. It would be a problem with noobs though if someone made a tool that doesn't detect errors...

[Rob Oplawar]

....NEVER. EVER. USE. BOOLEAN. EVAR!!!!!!

While I understand where you're coming from, I respectfully disagree.

I use Pro Boolean, which works great, even if the objects I'm merging have multiple open edges. I just have to be careful about how I use it. When used correctly you can save yourself a TON of time, and get some really good results.

That said, it sure does seem to have bit me in the ass this time, doesn't it?

I'm gonna try one more thing before I go to bed... brb with the results...

Okay, I converted it to poly (yes I work in mesh, so sue me) and exported, and it gave me a list of open edges that was basically every other edge. I imported the debug and sure enough, just about every edge was highlighted (nearly killed max with all those thousands of objects). So... I take it you can't export it as poly? Or is converting it just totally messing it up (also quite likely)?
But I did accomplish what I was looking for with poly, namely, that I cannot find any open edges or degenerate triangles or anything that I know how to check for in max. So, what on earth is this T-Junction business?

Edit: I googled it, and the first thing I've found so far is this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=bfcLeqRUsm8C&pg=PA294&lpg=PA294&dq=%22t+j unction%22+3d&source=web&ots=FoXwf2tZet&sig=PDhwfe YSP54D3UjvHDirL7L7l9Y
So I know what a T-Junction is and why it's a bad thing; but it calls it a warning and says it's a possible t-junction. So now I have to figure out where it could possibly be and if it's causing the overlapping surfaces (which I now find to be doubtful, unless the t-junction occurs on coplanar surfaces.
What's more worrying is that you'd figure a T-Junction would produce either open edges or degenerate triangles, and I've got neither.

Edit: The full warning says Warning: Found possible T-Junction (pink). Well, I finally found the pink bit- it was a single line, hiding in the middle of a bunch of red and green coplanar surfaces. Turns out I did have a t-junction there. So I fixed it. Now I'm structuring to see if that takes care of the overlapping surfaces...

OK, so now I know that it's an error with tool, because having fixed the T-Junction, which was near but not adjacent to the "overlapping surfaces", I now get no overlapping surfaces error. Now to run radiosity!

And I'm gonna post this answer in the wiki tomorrow cause I'm fucking tired right now. Gonna go to bed... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



Final Edit:
I just put the solution into the Wiki: http://www.h2ek.com/wiki/index.php?title=T-Junction
Now wouldn't it be nice if every time somebody encountered an error and found a fix they put it online in the Wiki?