Creativity.

[itszutak]

I've been thinking about this for a while. My family has a very creative background in many fields, engineering, artistry, etc.,
so I get a lot of chances to watch inspiration and art go from the mind to the paper.
I also see it a bit on these forums, especially in Timo's photographs or Dano's awesome skinning skills.
But I just can't create anything. If I try to create something new without copying some other person's work, I can't.
I also lack the ability to draw anything resembling a circle more than a centimeter in diameter.
However, I am one of the smartest people I know; I get top scores in pretty much every honors or highest-grade tests I take.
I also am relatively good at the oboe and before that, the piano.

Is there some trick to creating something new? Or even just drawing?

Or am I just not suited to art?

[TeeKup]

Practice, Dedication, Determination. That's all you need to become a good artists.

[SuperSunny]

I am flipped. My family comes from a background lacking creativity, but I am incredibly creative.

Creativity, at first, is the ability to expand your own imagination into the world that you live in. How you feel, think, act, etc, is translated into situations and things. But it all comes to a limit. Your own knowledge is your limit on how far you can go in becoming creative.

[Snowy]

You say you're good at the "oboe" (which I have no idea what that is) and the piano. Maybe a different kind of art (music) is what you'll be able to be creative in. Music is art. Things take time, you can't rush creativity, you can't rush art. When you start at anything, it's going to be horrible at first, you must be patient. You can't just say "I'm going to do something creative" you have to wait for inspiration, and for inspiration to hit you at the right time.

When I start an art project, I never just sit down and "go". Sometimes I just sit there with the blank canvas before me and just wait two, three, sometimes four days before something just "comes" to me.

Giving up isn't the answer, either. You just have to be patient. For some, it comes naturally, and everything they do has some sort of creative awesomeness to it. For others, it takes them a few days, or revisions before their piece of art is how they want it. There's more to art then just drawings, or ink on canvas. I believe that art is also part of your imagination. Let it flow free, and you'll find yourself being more happy with your work.

[itszutak]

I'm good at taking information in front of me (Like, say, music sheets) and processing it (playing the music). What I can't seem to do is create something new, like, say, a new piece of music. I can produce stories with the right inspiration, but that's where it ends.

I guess that's my problem, then. I expect all my inspiration to come like it does for stories. I guess I'll try taking a break from games this summer so I can actually spend some time with my ideas and try my hand at this art thing, aided by 3ds max.

[Timo]

I come from a family who isn't creative, although it's taken me a few years to do what I can - and I still don't consider it very good :x

[Corndogman]

I am sort of with you here, I've played guitar for quite awhile and can play sheet music etc. but its hard for me to create my own music without inspiration or playing with other people. on the other hand i cant draw very well at all but i know my way around max pretty well and can create some decent stuff. i still need inspiration for creating more artistic things in max, which is why i like to create outdoor environments, since it doesn't require too much creativity.

[Tweek]

i consider myself to be absolutely uncreative, but whenever i start up max, and tell myself, let's make a car/spaceship/lamp post, it all just flows out, like a river of awesomeness.

i can't draw my ideas, because im absolutely horible at drawing, but i'm great at 3d-ing, and with it, i manage to be creative, and just let stuff flow out/
it's still kinda hard though, you have to bust open the frikin dam before you get a bit of a river going.

i often don't feel like dambusting first, and i just end up making stuff of a little concept made by someone else. which is really the way i prefer it.
when i am given a concept, i've got an idea of what to go for, which is like being handed busta-a-dam-bomb, which make short work of that shit.

you just need to find your medium to channel your river of awesomeness.
and asking for a dambuster isn't hard.

here's a little example:


bust-a-dam:
http://www.eternal-silence.net/4images/data/media/9/asteroidbase.jpg

at the end of the river:
http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08024/ce4886.jpg
http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08024/ce3533.jpg

[SnaFuBAR]

Practice, Dedication, Determination. That's all you need to become a good artists.
entirely false.

[Patrickssj6]

entirely false.
Entirely? If he is so entirely false, tell us what else. Any type of skills like creativity or an obsession for certain things aren't inherited.

[Tweek]

Talent

[SnaFuBAR]

ding ding ding. it doesn't come out of thin air because you keep trying.

[itszutak]

What do you mean by talent? A "natural gift", or something obtained through trial and error, or what?

[Sel]

To be creative you get high, mass told me :downs:

[Roostervier]

When I see the world talent, I see it as a natural gift... one that can be honed and refined to be something more awesome than it already is with hard work.

[SnaFuBAR]

What do you mean by talent? A "natural gift", or something obtained through trial and error, or what?
www.dictionary.com sed
a special natural ability or aptitude: a talent for drawing. :downs:

[Botolf]

My creativity is like a good meal, it starts out good and comes out as sewage.

Well, at least for now, anyway. And I suppose I should be thankful I can express my thoughts through writing well enough :p

[Tweek]

you can have 2 people living the exact same life, practicing and learning the exact same things, on the same subject, but if person 1 has TALENT for the thing they're practicing, person 2 will never be as good as person 1.

it's like.. skill.. +5 (talent bonus)

[itszutak]

Bah.

Well, I guess I may not have an artistic "talent". I can write stories in my head, but when it comes to visualization, and imagining how it actually looks, it breaks down and is replaced with things I've seen before.

I'll still try this modeling thing. I might find I am hit with inspiration when I try it :/

And snaf, people don't always mean words the exact way the dictionary defines them. I just asked for clarification.

[Tweek]

everyone has talent, but in different areas. i happen to have talent in 3d, i've got an amazing sense of spatial awareness, and whenever we had like these puzzels in math class, where there was for example a cube, folded out, or other shapes folded out, those things were amazingly easy for me.

some people have talent elsewhere, some in sports, bowling, hockey, some in music, some in motorsports, some people have a talent for handling animals, or people. some have a talent for handling heavy tools, and some people have talent for working with numbers. everyone has talent. you just have to find out where yours lies.

[Llama Juice]

Everything is based on RL in one way or another. To try to come up with something entirely 100% unique and original is just silly. Just because you're modifying reality doesn't mean that you're as usefull as a used bottle of Jenkem, it means that you're normal.

Nothing is 100% original.

[LlamaMaster]

Everything is based on RL in one way or another. To try to come up with something entirely 100% unique and original is just silly. Just because you're modifying reality doesn't mean that you're as usefull as a used bottle of Jenkem, it means that you're normal.

Nothing is 100% original.
Exactly what I think. There is no such thing as true creativity, it's just how you process images gathered in your head throughout your life and combine them to form something "new". There is nothing creative that doesn't look like something already made.

[SnaFuBAR]

uhhhh what? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/original

just because you can't come up with something 100% original doesn't mean it's not possible. think before you post something like that. thanks.

Example: combustion engine. also, washing machines.

E: you too llamamaster.

[Llama Juice]

Stop taking everything entirely literally.

What we meant was that everything is made with some sort of influence. For something to be entirely without influence would be impossible if you've been surrounded by people your whole life. Even then you can take influence from nature, or stuff like that.

NOTHING is entirely 100% original.

Example: Washing Machine (http://www.ohiokids.org/tz/im/wb01.jpg)

[Sel]

I dont get it with washing machines, how do you go from Woman ----> That

[Bodzilla]

You've learnt everything out of books and sheets, Test scores will never show if you can be creative or not, they will just show that you can copy other peoples ideas.

Play your piano and just start improvising. Eventually you just hit a spot where you play one note, and you instantly know where the next one is.

[Limited]

In my eyes, you are born with the talent. Obviously you cant create a masterpiece when your a baby, practise + hard work increases your ability to be creative.

I used to consider myself to be creative, past couple of years I've found it hard to. Its not that I've lost my talent, I've lost the ways of expressing my talent. I open up 3ds max screaming hell yeah lets make a boat, ends up looking like a fish.

You just need to find was to express your talent, however some people just arent as talented as other people, im not saying you arent talented, I feel everyone is, its just some people it comes to more naturally.


Play your piano and just start improvising. Eventually you just hit a spot where you play one note, and you instantly know where the next one is.
Bod's right. You might be the master at playing a piece of music, but can you add to it? Can you create a new one?

My advice? Keep trying, try new ideas. You just need to find your way to channel your creativness.

[Corndogman]

I think that 3d modeling is a much different field than other forms of art. Even if you are not the most creative guy, you can create things from real life using reference images. for example, forerunner architecture. some people have a gift for it and make some really cool structures. other people are good at making things from real life, like a building outside of your window, if you know how to use the tools (of max) than you can easily recreate things that look good.

Some people have much more artistic talent than others, but with enough practice, dedication and determination you can get pretty good. even with just a little bit of talent, though it may not come as easy to some as it does to others.

[Atty]

I was born with a few skills, with those I've come to find a few varying fields to apply them in. You have to use what you are given.

Just because you are book smart does not mean you should have any artistic skills what-so-ever. Anyone can study their butt's off to be good in school and some have it come naturally (for me, most classes I just understand, I can do very well in most) but others need to work that extra bit to make passing grades, its nothing bad (unless they're just lazy) its just how their brain's are.

One example in my family and myself is that most my entire family is tone deaf, none of them were able to learn to play any instrument and if they were they were not anything above average, but me, I picked up a guitar and after a few short lesson's could play beautifully. My mother is an incredible artist, but I can't draw for my life. Just because your family is good at something does not mean you'll inherit the same skills.

I think you hit the nail on the head though, you're just not suited for art. I know its a terrible thing to find that you are no good at something you really want to be good at but it just happens sometimes, and you have to deal with it.

E: I'd also like to point out to those of you who are telling him that all you need to do is work, work, work, to get good at it, that this is not true. Sometimes people just can't do certain things no matter how hard they try. Often people who keep working hard at something just have some minor handicap holding them back from doing well and just need to find a way to work through it but sometimes people have no natural skill and no matter what they do they'll never be any good at it.

[Zeph]

I also am relatively good at the oboe and before that, the piano.

Is there some trick to creating something new? Or even just drawing?

Or am I just not suited to art?

Musically inclined people that read sheet music all the time tend to do this. You're so used to doing what's before you it's hard to do something on your own.

A trick to creating something new that I've always been hindered by is simply knowing how to do so. I have no idea what your strong suites are in art. If it's 3d modeling, then start modeling common objects like your computer, TV, mugs, etc. As you model things you already have, you learn a hella lot about how to best/quickly make certain shapes. If you're into photography, read up on gestalt theory and the 2d design elements that make it up. Talk to your artist family members and see what they have to say. Tell them you're learning but having a hard time. Drawing, I have no clue what to do. I still cant draw worth half a crap.

[jngrow]

it's like.. skill.. +5 (talent bonus)

yeah, but you can still level ur skillz up.

Natural talent, you do need it to an extent. If you are just completely and utterly god-awful-suckfest at something, practice, determination etc. can improve your skills, but it will most likely be a waste of time, since you could be getting better at something else a LOT faster, and you'll probably never get where you want to be. Practice is not ALL you need, but a big chunk of it is.

[LlamaMaster]

uhhhh what? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/original

just because you can't come up with something 100% original doesn't mean it's not possible. think before you post something like that. thanks.

Example: combustion engine. also, washing machines.

E: you too llamamaster.
I'm talking more in the visual artistic sense. A combustion engine is more of an example of designing something practical that works. Sure, it may not look like anything else, but chances are the creator was just trying to put together parts in a way which worked, and it just happened to look like something new.

Same goes for a washing machine.

[SnaFuBAR]

NOTHING is entirely 100% original.

Example: Washing Machine (http://www.ohiokids.org/tz/im/wb01.jpg)
completely failed retort. they have the same purpose, but a washboard and tub relates in no other way to a washing machine than you end up with cleaned clothes. washboards and washing machines go about it in completely different ways, share no common parts, etc etc. For you to say a washing machine is not a 100% original idea is foolish. Also, don't tell me to take things so seriously, then fail to adequately refute my argument.


I'm talking more in the visual artistic sense. A combustion engine is more of an example of designing something practical that works. Sure, it may not look like anything else, but chances are the creator was just trying to put together parts in a way which worked, and it just happened to look like something new.

Same goes for a washing machine.

As for you, nothing is original in the visual artistic sense? Go take a bunch of art history classes and come back and try to hold that argument. As for your argument against the engine, you can't be fucking serious. You just CAN'T. Steam and combustion engines are an absolute far cry from anything preceding them! Technological and engineering marvels, and you think they're some kind of fucking accident of the industrial age or something.

Go. Read. Books.

[Tweek]

I'm talking more in the visual artistic sense. A combustion engine is more of an example of designing something practical that works. Sure, it may not look like anything else, but chances are the creator was just trying to put together parts in a way which worked, and it just happened to look like something new.

Same goes for a washing machine.

you're so very wrong.
stop being wrong on the internet!

[p0lar_bear]

Creativity is all about making something different, be it from scratch or a modification of something.

What it all comes down to, though, is if you thought of it yourself, or if you were knowingly copying something. Creativity doesn't mean that someone can pull a 100% original design out of their ass, it just means that they can think a little bit outside of the box and then pull something into the box.

Take the new infraction/warning postbits that I made. Now, the idea may not be exactly original, I'm damn sure someone else might have done it before, hell, some of the other staff here thought of doing it. However, I hadn't seen it done before, and nobody relayed the idea to me. I was thinking of a way to make infracted or warned posts stand out without using that butt-fucking-ugly and intrusive mark of shame, and I thought of hacking the template to use different colors if the post received an infraction or warning. Although very small, that is still creativity.

EDIT: Also, there are different kinds of creativity, mind you. Art, music, invention, action... a military commander, for example, may be an expert tactician, but unable to sketch, paint, or compose for shit. That doesn't mean that he's not creative, it just means he's not an artist or musician. What you can make and how well you can make it all boils down to talent; what you can do.

[Chewy Gumball]

If all you need is inspiration, then just start doing something. Inspiration does not find you, you find Inspiration. Often you will think of ideas while doing something and then you can use them with what you are already doing, or you can start something completely new with them.

If you can't express your ideas, then the only way to get better is to practice. You won't become good fast, and you may never become awesomely good, but I think you could settle for relatively good.

[ExAm]

I've been thinking about this for a while. My family has a very creative background in many fields, engineering, artistry, etc.,
so I get a lot of chances to watch inspiration and art go from the mind to the paper.
I also see it a bit on these forums, especially in Timo's photographs or Dano's awesome skinning skills.
But I just can't create anything. If I try to create something new without copying some other person's work, I can't.
I also lack the ability to draw anything resembling a circle more than a centimeter in diameter.
However, I am one of the smartest people I know; I get top scores in pretty much every honors or highest-grade tests I take.
I also am relatively good at the oboe and before that, the piano.

Is there some trick to creating something new? Or even just drawing?

Or am I just not suited to art?That's it, now I know the government is putting something in the water. I've had no creativity for the past month and a half, and I keep hearing the same from shitloads of other people. They're trying to prevent us from dreaming up elaborate government overthrow schemes...

[Botolf]

So I went outside this evening and sat under a tree, just listening to the wind rustle through the leaves and scribbling random things on paper. I sketched a weird bomb that violated perspective in many places but iunno, kinda looked cool. So, in conclusion:

SIT UNDER A TREE, DRAW, PROFIT!!!!!!

[Llama Juice]

completely failed retort. they have the same purpose, but a washboard and tub relates in no other way to a washing machine than you end up with cleaned clothes. washboards and washing machines go about it in completely different ways, share no common parts, etc etc. For you to say a washing machine is not a 100% original idea is foolish. Also, don't tell me to take things so seriously, then fail to adequately refute my argument.

Are you seriously that ignorant?

Wash tub + the ability to use electricity = washing machine.

They looked at something they already had (a general idea of how to clean clothes) and took the energy that a person had to do and they changed the source of that energy. Since they changed the source it's obviously going to have a different look, and need different parts. But since they looked at what they already had, they derived the basic idea from it. AKA They evolved a current way of doing things into a different method. AKA Not 100% original.

Sure, something may always appear to be original or new but there's always an influence for it based off of something else.

[n00b1n8R]

So I went outside this evening and sat under a tree, just listening to the wind rustle through the leaves and scribbling random things on paper. I sketched a weird bomb that violated perspective in many places but iunno, kinda looked cool. So, in conclusion:

SIT UNDER A TREE, DRAW, PROFIT!!!!!!
:picsorstfu:

[nooBBooze]

I used to write neat little short stories until -during literature class- i realized that to a certain extent, everything has been there before. Although im still producing a fuckload of different scetches and outlines of stories, i gave up on really caring about it. i mean what could i add to the human experience other than my point of view wich, on a larger scale, is really irrelevant and conformistic.
plus unsucsessful authors are attention whores while sucsessfull authors are attention whores and whores for the muney.

[Tweek]

Are you seriously that ignorant?

Wash tub + the ability to use electricity = washing machine.

They looked at something they already had (a general idea of how to clean clothes) and took the energy that a person had to do and they changed the source of that energy. Since they changed the source it's obviously going to have a different look, and need different parts. But since they looked at what they already had, they derived the basic idea from it. AKA They evolved a current way of doing things into a different method. AKA Not 100% original.

Sure, something may always appear to be original or new but there's always an influence for it based off of something else.


man, you're just embarassing yourself now.
i suggest you retreat from this thread before you make a bigger idiot out of yourself.

[Caboose O'Malley]

Experience.
You've got to take the good with the bad, they will both work well in giving yourself a creative and free mind.
By letting your imagination freely wonder into the real world allows some of the best works of art to be formed.
If it feels like madness then embrace it, and it will serve you well.

[nooBBooze]

Also, weed.

[SnaFuBAR]

Are you seriously that ignorant?
No, apparently YOU are.

[CN3089]

No, apparently YOU are.

Oh man watch out, SnaFuBAR just picked up some wicked new burns from the elementary school playground!!! http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif

[Con]

Oh man watch out, SnaFuBAR just picked up some wicked new burns from the elementary school playground!!! http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif
no, u

[SnaFuBAR]

Oh man watch out, SnaFuBAR just picked up some wicked new burns from the elementary school playground!!! http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif
sorry, just trying that whole mind A vs mind B communication thing, hoping to get through to him.

[Limited]

Take the new infraction/warning postbits that I made. Now, the idea may not be exactly original, I'm damn sure someone else might have done it before, hell, some of the other staff here thought of doing it. However, I hadn't seen it done before, and nobody relayed the idea to me. I was thinking of a way to make infracted or warned posts stand out without using that butt-fucking-ugly and intrusive mark of shame, and I thought of hacking the template to use different colors if the post received an infraction or warning. Although very small, that is still creativity.

You mean this thing?
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8758/warninzw2.png

[CN3089]

no, u

goddamn http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-supaburn.gif

[Llama Juice]

man, you're just embarassing yourself now.
i suggest you retreat from this thread before you make a bigger idiot out of yourself.


http://www.llamajuice.com/img/white_flag2.gif
I don't care anymore.

As you kids have proven, ignorance is bliss. Enjoy it.

[Caboose O'Malley]

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

[SnaFuBAR]

As you kids have proven, ignorance is bliss. Enjoy it.
lol, yeah, and we showed you to be a prime example.

[Botolf]

:picsorstfu:
I has no scanner :smith:

[Mass]

Look, theres stuff in the universe. There's stuff we need. Everything idea we have will be within the boundaries of stuff. Ok, so the point llama is making is that every idea fits within the frame of thought of the universe.

No shit...And?

Obviously we admit that's true. Originallity takes that into account as an assumption and exists on a level above that. Being subject to the laws of physics and existing to fulfill an objective doesn't make an invention old.

Besides, according to your standards, something of absolute originallity would be completely and utterly alien to us. Meaning we couldn't connect to the subject, it'd make us uncomfortable, and it'd be hard as shit to flesh out.

Talent can't be learned through repition. Talent can be ignited or inspired. You can be skillful and intelligent and never come up with anything appealing. Until you feel, until you know you have something good--a notion, a vague image in your head--you haven't got shit.

[itszutak]

lol, yeah, and we showed you to be a prime example.
Snafubar, please stop. I don't care how good you are at modeling or giving criticism, because all I see here is you nitpicking and trying to start a flamewar.
And trying to insult him after he gives up just makes you look childish.

I'm dropping the subject here. Please do not bring it up again, or PM him or something.

Can we get back on topic, please?

[p0lar_bear]

I reiterate what I said:

"Creativity" and "Talent" are two different, vague things. While being creative with something means that you are talented, being talented doesn't necessarily mean that you are creative.

And, "Creativity" is a general term. So you found that you fail at writing music from scratch. Perhaps music isn't your thing. Can you write original stories? Can you draw original concepts? Can you look at problems in real life and think outside of the box? Just because you can't write fresh music doesn't mean that you're not creative.

[Caboose O'Malley]

Is your brain wired for creativity? (http://www.oneplusyou.com/bb/synesthesia)

[nooBBooze]

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
because those who lable ppl ignorant, are ignorant.
plus most ppl are unaware of their ignorance and are therefore arrogant. and since only ignorance = happiness even the actually ignorant are bound to be unhappy according to that saying.
:eng101:

[CN3089]

because those who lable ppl ignorant, are ignorant.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-irony.gif

[Caboose O'Malley]

because those who lable ppl ignorant, are ignorant.
plus most ppl are unaware of their ignorance and are therefore arrogant. and since only ignorance = happiness even the actually ignorant are bound to be unhappy according to that saying.
:eng101:

But, isn't the fact that they're unaware of their ignorance just more proof of it? It doesn't necessarily make them arrogant, they could just be so ignorant that they can't even notice it.

Besides, it was a rhetorical question.

[nooBBooze]

So the question is, are ignorant folks who are unaware of their ignorance happier than ignorant folks that are aware of it. I'd say the latter is an oxymoron since it basically means that one knows his limitations wich is something i like to call wise.
I thought "arrogant" would be a good term to describe that ignorance of ones ignorance wich appeared i thought was a double negative. In any case i dont think children are any happier than grown ups. But considering the things i saw on the internet wich CAN'T BE UNSEEN i may be wrong and ignorance may be very well bliss.

Oh, i think rhetorical questions are one of the few things -along with sarcasm- that don't work on the internet. at least if untagged. I could be wrong though wich is highly probable.
Inb4 grammar national socialists