Co-op in Halo PC, should it have been made?

[Master Chief]

for many who have played Halo for X-BOX, you have known the benifits of having a partner with you kicking Covanent ass throughout Installation 04. For people who only have Halo for PC, we dont. Should the creators of Halo PC have made Co-op an option? as a person who doesnt have Halo X-BOX, i say yes. How? through the LAN or Internet connection of course. the same should go for Halo 2 on Vista as well.

[PlasbianX]

http://www.postfarm.net/uploads/gtfo_copy3.jpg
Netcode

[jcap]

Topic moved to general discussion.

[rossmum]

http://www.postfarm.net/uploads/gtfo_copy3.jpg
Netcode
:-3

[Rescudo]

© Corgy.

[Limited]

Co-op in games that normally have good net code lag. So no chance in halo

[Master Chief]

well, this sucks... i thought at least ONE person would agree with me...:(

[itszutak]

It would be neat, but it's impossible. :/

[InnerGoat]

It would be neat, but it's impossible. :/Impossible? I'm pretty sure co-op would work if they made a whole new netcode for that...:lol:

When I went out to buy the game back in 03', I was actually expecting there to be co-op. :(

[Teroh]

No it shouldn't have.

[legionaire45]

I always found the Co-Op too easy even on legendary. Single Player is tough though XD.

[Rescudo]

Yup, netcode pretty much makes it unfeasible. Would be nice though :(

[rossmum]

16-player co-op as marines... would fucking own. To say the least.

[Boo Diddly]

16 player marine coop would be nice BUT...
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/3924/owned_hl3.jpg
we just got owned by the crapbox's notcode!

[MereCatfish]

Boo Diddy:

I hope your usage of "crapbox" does not mean Gearbox.

If it does, allow me to tell you a short story.

One day, a company called Gearbox Software found themselves developing a port of Halo in order to make money to do what they really wanted to do - Brothers in Arms. They had a wonderful netcode that was almost perfect for netplay. This was fully implemented in Beta 2 of Halo PC.

However, this netcode was so good because dial-up connections were not permitted. Naturally, Microsoft realised that this could stop a large portion of casual gamers purchasing the game, as at this point a lot of people still had dial-up.

Gearbox were probably unhappy, but they had to agree as Microsoft were writing their paycheques. Remember, Gearbox needed the money for BiA.

Gearbox may then have set off to code their own netcode. I would imagine Microsoft aasked for an ETA, at which point they probably said "a few more months". Microsoft wanted the game out in time for the holiday season, so they would have said "No" again, and gave Gearbox their own crappy, dial-up compatible netcode. Or something like that. And of course, Gearbox couldn't say no...

[Boo Diddly]

they could have done a better job...

what about other things that they did wrong? mmm?

[rossmum]

Could you do better? No. Could anyone on this forum do better? Most likely not. Was it GBX's fault they were told to use crappy netcoding? No, they didn't have a choice.

:fail:

[Rescudo]

If it's true that Gearbox made a good netcode for Halo, I reckon they should have implemented it with an update. I mean, maybe there were a lot of dial-up-gamers in 2001, but now?... Everybody here in Norway that I know about has broadband, anyway.

[rossmum]

Problem is, re-writing the entire netcode and releasing it as a patch is no small ask, and GBX have their own games to worry about...

[Rescudo]

We'll never get 1000 players on at once, will we. :(

[Master Chief]

'fraid not :( it sukz tho, not bein able 2 play on co-op through internet. i mean, if Gearbox and Microsoft are so damn worried, why not make people who already have Halo PC buy it? or at the very least, a patch (like make v1.07 v1.08 or sumthin)

[Pooky]

If they do have a fully working netcode as merecatfish says, it wouldn't be a problem of MAKING it, it would be a problem of releasing it. I don't think they have either the money or the will to release better netcode, plus people who already bought the game and have dialup would be pissed to find they can't play online anymore. Not that I care, but I'm sure someone would. Doesn't anyone remember Halo Trial though? I swear that thing ran 10 times better than the retail version...

[Master Chief]

ya, i remember Halo Trial, i used to have it installed on my computer....man, it was sooo fun, kickin ass and modding it as well... good times...good times...

[p0lar_bear]

plus people who already bought the game and have dialup would be pissed to find they can't play online anymore.

Not that dialup users CAN play as it is.

[Btd69]

Co-op would have been cool; ashame they didn't do it for h2v, as they would have doubled their sales.

I got Halo hoping it'd have the same physics engine for vehicles as Breed does. Oh how I wish it were true :(

[Cortexian]

wait halo has a netcode? lmao...

[rossmum]

wait halo has a netcode? lmao...
:ohsnap:

It could be worse... barely, but it could.

[Pooky]

Not that dialup users CAN play as it is.

They can have fun in their own way. I've been in servers where no one had worse than a 60 ping, a dialupper comes in and suddenly

LOLOL 3000 PING BITCHES


They all need to go play Barney's MMO love adventure or some crap nobody cares about so they can enjoy lagging eachother.

[Master Chief]

roflamo:lmao: that must've sucked like hell:suicide:

[Bad Waffle]

I always get "GTFO you lagger" when i join a server, and then i say shut up because we're playing on my map. :)

[Sgt Stacker]

:suicide:whyyy!! i want co-op :eekdance::suicide:

[soccerbummer1104]

they could have done it like fifa 06. only if you have 2 controllers, or a keyboard and a controller, then you can use more than 1 person. maybe it'd be possible that way, but not over the internet.

[Master Chief]

^awww hell....:suicide: at least can we advise this to Microsoft? with H2 for Vista coming out and all....

[rossmum]

No. Now stop bumping threads to post incorrect assumptions.

[Sunray]

Its all money. They could co-op if microsoft wanted, but then what would be the xbox selling point? PC has the capacity for better graphics, custom content etc. so why buy xbox? Co-op. Thats the only reason that I can see that they would not include it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but money is the only thing I can see.

[mech]

. . .

[rossmum]

Its all money. They could co-op if microsoft wanted, but then what would be the xbox selling point? PC has the capacity for better graphics, custom content etc. so why buy xbox? Co-op. Thats the only reason that I can see that they would not include it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but money is the only thing I can see.
Oh, so that's why they added an SDK and better graphics to H2V and they had new maps, new weapons, and CE for Halo PC.

[Sunray]

Oh, so that's why they added an SDK and better graphics to H2V and they had new maps, new weapons, and CE for Halo PC.
And why should xbox users get H2V? For the above reasons.

[rossmum]

I'd hardly go buy Halo or H2 Xbox (though I bought the latter shortly after release) to get co-op.

[Sunray]

I'm not condoning it. Just presening a theory.

[rossmum]

Yeah, it makes sense and you do have a point - but they're a corporation, that's to be expected. Plenty of other factors would've figured though, I imagine.

Either way, all told, most things come down to money.

[Pooky]

I'd hardly go buy Halo or H2 Xbox (though I bought the latter shortly after release) to get co-op.

I will just for the hell of it once the 360 is the new big thing and I can get an Xbox for 20 bucks at a pawn shop

[Bodzilla]

lol ya Microsoft have allways been about the $_$

lol i remember seeing something on bungie about the new movie, and universal and another film company wanted to talk numbers about the movie and microsoft was like
"we dont want to have the movie made by them if all they care about is the money"
i LMFAO! because microsoft is charging some insanely high amount of royalties for the movie, thats why the movie hasnt allready been made.
[/off topic]

anyway it should have been made, but the lead and netcode i think are worse then not having co-op.
i'd rather not have co-op and have a game that has decent netcode and very little to 0 ping.

but god dam i wish we had co-op. that would own so much ass. i wouldnt care if it was only for lans, i just want co-op :(

[Pooky]

You can run games on an emulator will fully functioning split screen, I see no reason why they couldn't have done it with PC. That's what never made sense to me

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

You can run games on an emulator will fully functioning split screen, I see no reason why they couldn't have done it with PC. That's what never made sense to meIt's simple when you think about it - To do co-op on PC means you have to use the internet to connect with someone else. And to use the internet means they would have to use a netcode that would be able to send packets fast enough and require those packets to send more data (because of syncing AI, regionable damage, etc.) and well, MS decided to use a 56k-friendly (hahahahaha) netcode.

[Pooky]

No, it's NOT simple. There's absolutely no reason you couldn't have had split screen, my gamepad works 100% in Campaign mode, and I have 2.

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

It's simple when you think about it - To do co-op on PC means you have to use the internet to connect with someone else. And to use the internet means they would have to use a netcode that would be able to send packets fast enough and require those packets to send more data (because of syncing AI, regionable damage, etc.) and well, MS decided to use a 56k-friendly (hahahahaha) netcode.What I just posted ^ was why there is no co-op. o.o

[Pooky]

but you don't HAVE to use the Internet by any means, as I said, it's perfectly possible to do split screen on ONE computer with 2 gamepads or one gamepad and a mouse/keyboard connected to the same computer. Emulators havebeen doing it for years

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

Oh, well I don't think (imo) that came up in discussion for halo PC when they were porting it.

[Mr Buckshot]

Gamepads on PCs weren't very popular back in '03.

Halo PC's netcode actually was scripting to emulate 16-player system link over the internet and LAN, since the original Xbox version had no online MP. Halo xbox's system link did not support AI or co-op, so it wouldn't go into the PC either.

To make a netcode that supported AI (and therefore co-op) would require GBX to rewrite half the game from the ground up, which would have delayed Halo PC's release until after Halo 2 came out. Leaving out co-op was disappointing but a smart decision for GBX - if they had rewritten everything, the game wouldn't sell. After all GBX no longer supports Halo, and has other excellent hits like Brothers in Arms.

Co-op does make the game half as easy if all it involves is throwing in a carbon copy of the first player. The levels could use adaptation to better suit 2 players, just like Doom 3 on xbox.

[Pooky]

Oh, well I don't think (imo) that came up in discussion for halo PC when they were porting it.

They were porting an Xbox game that ALREADY HAD co-op functionality pre-built into it. It had to be a conscious decision to remove it, they could have easily left it in with a few small modifications and people wouldn't be bitching about this now

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

No, I meant they probably didn't think of gamepads/emulators that could utilize co-op on one computer.

[Pooky]

Well, that's probably true, but it's their error, not something that just happened because it should have happened that way. Gamepad functionality in Halo PC is horribly implemented, in multiplayer you can't even walk at different speeds.

[p0lar_bear]

Hello, I'm an average end-user. My computer was top-of-the-line back in 03. I was playing the Halo campaign the other day and noticed the strain that was put upon my computer.

Most computers at the time wouldn't have been able to take the strain of rendering twice the load at once. At some points the XBox can't take it; you can see some slowdown in some spots where there is clearly being too much rendered at once.

If you want co-op so badly, go play the XBox. Consoles were meant for multi-player use. The PC was created for just one person.

[rossmum]

Hello, I'm an average end-user. My computer was top-of-the-line back in 03. I was playing the Halo campaign the other day and noticed the strain that was put upon my computer.

Most computers at the time wouldn't have been able to take the strain of rendering twice the load at once. At some points the XBox can't take it; you can see some slowdown in some spots where there is clearly being too much rendered at once.

If you want co-op so badly, go play the XBox. Consoles were meant for multi-player use. The PC was created for just one person.
My PC is 6 years old with the occasional minor upgrade, and it still has serious trouble running the campaign.

[Con]

I think it would be acceptable if the netcode was made to incorperate this. IMO it would make the game better by far, you get bored of the same maps over and over again in multiplayer, and sometimes custom maps aren't enough. There's the problem of balance however. When you play the campaign, there were at times about 10 enemies in the room with you, but you still beat them. Then what happens when you get 8 players in the Co-op server? That's certainly not balanced anymore. If the amount of enemies spawned in the room were done proportionally to the amount of players in the server, it would get pretty laggy really fast. The server could instead adjust the AI's shields and health to something like 400% to make them harder to kill. More vehicles would have to be spawned for the players as well, like the Race gametype. Players would also have to spawn near to the others, not a problem however. The harder-to-kill enemies should keep the group of players tightly packed along the level. Less experienced players will be able to progess faster and catch up to the more experienced ones pinned down at the battefront. That will also keep the more experienced players from blazing ahead. There's also the need for more complex cutscenes. New animations may be needed, or it could work like the following; The host is the only one who performs the important cutscene actions. The other players stand idly by while he does this, and make use of scripts in the map to perform basic actions like entering vehicles, facing directions, and following the host. Something liek this could work, and hopefully they make the h2v netcode able to sync the AI, incase we develop our own Co-op maps.

[Pooky]

Hello, I'm an average end-user. My computer was top-of-the-line back in 03. I was playing the Halo campaign the other day and noticed the strain that was put upon my computer.

Most computers at the time wouldn't have been able to take the strain of rendering twice the load at once. At some points the XBox can't take it; you can see some slowdown in some spots where there is clearly being too much rendered at once.

If you want co-op so badly, go play the XBox. Consoles were meant for multi-player use. The PC was created for just one person.

I DON'T want co-op so badly, but that's still a pretty damn frail reason why they couldn't have done it anyway. I know of other games that have had ahead of their time system requirements (Quake, for one)

For the record, AMD Athlon 64 + ATI Radeon 1600 Pro + 512 MB DDR RAM = mid-range. I'm not speaking from the spoiled richboys that just need to go die point of view.

[Master Chief]

Hello, I'm an average end-user. My computer was top-of-the-line back in 03. I was playing the Halo campaign the other day and noticed the strain that was put upon my computer.

Most computers at the time wouldn't have been able to take the strain of rendering twice the load at once. At some points the XBox can't take it; you can see some slowdown in some spots where there is clearly being too much rendered at once.

If you want co-op so badly, go play the XBox. Consoles were meant for multi-player use. The PC was created for just one person.

ya, wat i ment was that people who DO NOT OWN a Xbox, but have Halo PC on thier computers would wish to play co-op for once on the computer, instead of buying a Xbox, then just buying Halo for it, i mean that would be a waste of time, wouldnt you think?

[rossmum]

Why would you bother anyway? Just find a friend with an Xbox and go play co-op on theirs...

[Eps][Lon3]

They should just leave it at co-op on one computer. The major issue why they aren't doing this is that on one computer the game would have to display itself twice, producing extremely low fps on just average computers. In the questions they answered they wanted to make the game compatible with everyone, no matter how crappy their gfx card was(as long as it was able to meet minimum req.) But then......if you had dual 8800s...or even one of the newest cards....co-op wouldn't be a that much of a problem...Someone tell them this -.-

The netcode thing......they should just set it so that dial-up players play amongst themselves....Give them a good reason to upgrade. Optimize gameplay for broadband, its what most people have nowadays anyway. Dial-up is ancient technology....move on!!

[rossmum]

Co-op on one PC would be stupid because it would drain power like you wouldn't believe. For two, it just wouldn't work (no matter how good the netcode, it still takes time to send and receive information).

[Eps][Lon3]

not seperating dial-up users and broadband users would spoil broadband user's experience. We are paying more money for our service and these dial-up weenies just join and lag evry1 to death.

[rossmum]

Unfortunately 'those dialup weenies' would like to be able to enjoy their gaming experience too, show some respect. :rolleyes:

[Aero]

We'll never get 1000 players on at once, will we. :(
Sure we will. Just wait for the Xbox 1440 or the PS12.

[Pooky]

[Lon3;22082']They should just leave it at co-op on one computer. The major issue why they aren't doing this is that on one computer the game would have to display itself twice, producing extremely low fps on just average computers. In the questions they answered they wanted to make the game compatible with everyone, no matter how crappy their gfx card was(as long as it was able to meet minimum req.) But then......if you had dual 8800s...or even one of the newest cards....co-op wouldn't be a that much of a problem...Someone tell them this -.-

The netcode thing......they should just set it so that dial-up players play amongst themselves....Give them a good reason to upgrade. Optimize gameplay for broadband, its what most people have nowadays anyway. Dial-up is ancient technology....move on!!


Everyone's still forgetting that it might be rendering 2 scenes but it's also rendering each one at half res...

Also, you can turn your settings down for a reason. If the Xbox could do split screen, I see no reason why PC hardware (which even when Halo Xbox was out was still vastly superior) couldn't

[rossmum]

My PC runs Halo worse than my Xbox despite being (supposedly) over twice as powerful.

Consoles are dedicated gaming machines. PCs aren't.

[Bodzilla]

[Lon3;22096']not seperating dial-up users and broadband users would spoil broadband user's experience. We are paying more money for our service and these dial-up weenies just join and lag evry1 to death.
it's been stated many times b4.

When Halo PC was made i think less then 5% of ppl connected to the internet had broadband.

[Edward Elrich]

Now, however...
And, besides having to somehow share the netcode, the problem comes up that TWO engines have to keep track of the AI at the same time, and somehow make sure they're in the same position. Result: exploding comp when it's overloaded, the immediate reboot of Windows, or something else horrible and somewhat unexplainable. (Who's going to believe your com actually exploded playing Halo, besides the people here?)

[rossmum]

Now, however...
Don't even go there. Gearbox can't and won't redo the entire netcode for an old game just because we bitch constantly about lag. They have their own projects to work on and it's too major an update to be viable in any way, shape or form.

[Bodzilla]

Now, however...
And, besides having to somehow share the netcode, the problem comes up that TWO engines have to keep track of the AI at the same time, and somehow make sure they're in the same position. Result: exploding comp when it's overloaded, the immediate reboot of Windows, or something else horrible and somewhat unexplainable. (Who's going to believe your com actually exploded playing Halo, besides the people here?)
well dude if it means that much to u i'm sure u can rebuild the entire netcode if u wanted to.

it's not like it's a collosal waste of time, money and resources or anythng.....

[rossmum]

well dude if it means that much to u i'm sure u can rebuild the entire netcode if u wanted to.

it's not like it's a collosal waste of time, money and resources or anythng.....
Beat you to the punch (http://h2vista.net/forums/showpost.php?p=22476&postcount=70)

[Pooky]

My PC runs Halo worse than my Xbox despite being (supposedly) over twice as powerful.

Consoles are dedicated gaming machines. PCs aren't.


I get the same thing but nonetheless you could still turn the graphics down. It would be a small price to pay

[rossmum]

I get the same thing but nonetheless you could still turn the graphics down. It would be a small price to pay
It's not so much the graphics as the CPU/RAM holding you back. It has so much else to process on a PC, that the game realistically doesn't get full power at any point.