Will be buying a notebook. GFX Card Questions

[Varmint260]

When I'm finished high school this June, I plan to buy a notebook of one sort or another for college. I looked at several different manufacturers for the best deal, and to get what I wanted from Dell was going to be just under $2500, to get what I wanted from Toshiba was going to be over $2500, and my budget is <$2000 CAN (so about $1700 US). What seems to be the best deal is to get a Hewlett Packard, as I can get mostly what I want for under $2000. However, I have some questions about this. Of course, one of my specifics is that I want to run HaloCE and Halo2Vista with decent graphics on it, but it has to be viable as a tool in college.

Firstly, I wanted a 2.0gHz dual core processor (is this reasonable?), either an AMD Turion X2 or an Intel Core Duo. I wanted at least Vista Home Premium, as I don't want to be stuck with just Basic. I wanted 2 gigs of RAM, and the best video card that HP would put in a notebook. Here is where my questions lie, the graphics.

HP puts NVidia GeForce Go GPUs in their notebooks, so I was wondering if someone here could give me an idea as to their capabilities. In their notebooks with 15.4" screens, the best GPU you can get is an NVidia GeForce Go 7200 or... I think an NVidia GeForce Go 7400. What sort of performance with the above specs would I get out of Halo (either 1 or H2V) with either of those cards?

And in HP's laptops with 17.0" screens, you can go as high as an NVidia GeForce Go 7600. I'm guessing this one would provide better performance but I don't know any specifics about these cards (NVidia's site doesn't give the sort of specifics I'd like, and I never seem to be able to find the specific info I'm looking for when I Google it)

Does anyone here on these forums have some idea about these cards? Thanks for your attention!

BTW to FriedMetroid: HP only seems to offer dual cores in their laptops (???). I can pay an extra $75 US for 2.2gHz Turion X2, though...

[Pooky]

Wait you want a 2 Ghz dual core? My single core is 2.2 Ghz

[Atty]

And fried? Your 2.2Ghz single is about as powerful as one of my cores @ 1Ghz. :)

What you want:
Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM. Get the 2.16GHz Core 2 core, 2GB of ram, and make sure it's Vista.

[Varmint260]

Get the 2.16GHz Core 2 core,

It would seem to me that any Core Duo above 2.0gHz is prohibitively expensive, however. I was even going to ask if going from a 2.0gHz dual core to a 1.83gHz dual core would hamper my performance that much?

[legionaire45]

get this with the wireless card option (http://www.rjtech.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CP-HEL80)
this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822146226)
this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231116)
and any of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=50001157+2010340343+1050923320&Subcategory=&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=) you can afford. My 2.1 ghz C2D desktop chip is blazing fast and even when it was 1.8 it was still fast, so I would recomend the 2.0 ghz along with a warranty on the lappy.

The laptop has a Go 7600 built in. Also according to several reviews it is a very cool notebook temp and style wise.

[onyxghost]

this is the laptop i have http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8119822&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat103700050047&id=1158319080012 , it plays halo great with all high settings and is really fast to.

[Varmint260]

My big question is with the specs I have said I want, what will the various versions of the GeForce Go (7200, 7400, 7500LE, 7600) do? Do they all have the latest Pixel Shader and T&L support, and that sort of thing?
Thanks for the links guys, but I'm really more interested in the GPUs.

By the way, onyxghost, it says your notebook has an NVidia 6150 Go in it, does that render everything in Halo properly? With the exception of camo, of course.

[Atty]

You can get a external GPU adapter for Laptops which works for any GPU. Although don't hold me to that, I haven't seen any hard truth on it.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/hands-on-with-the-asus-xg-station-external-gpu/

[TheGhost]

Atty do you have any idea when Alienware will be putting G80's in their notebooks?

[legionaire45]

My best guess would be a little while after the midrange cards are out. The 8600 Ultras only will be using single slot (more or less a 7600 GT cooler), so it wouldnt be too far away from a notebook heatpipe cooler.

[Atty]

Atty do you have any idea when Alienware will be putting G80's in their notebooks?No idea. I don't know how they could with the current ones on market, they are too power consuming and hot. Maybe with a midrange or a refresh card, but who knows. I'd say within the next 1 - 2 months you'll hear something either about nVidia's or AMD/ATi's new lines and laptops.

[Varmint260]

You can get a external GPU adapter for Laptops which works for any GPU. Although don't hold me to that, I haven't seen any hard truth on it.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/hands-on-with-the-asus-xg-station-external-gpu/
That is t3h win, but it is doubtful I could afford anything like that, and I'm unsure as to whether I want a dedicated monitor and the like. Still, this is very sexy!

EDIT: Oh, hey, I finally found on NVidia's website a page that talks all about the 7x00 Go series and what they are capable of. Can someone take a look at this page and translate it? (NVidia Tech-speak to english plz)
http://www.nvidia.com/object/go_7_series_techspecs.html
It also says, BTW, that the 7200, 7300 and 7400 do not include compression technology. What the heck is that, and am I okay without it? And nothing here states any DX10 compatibility... should I be worried?

[Atty]

I wouldn't go for anything less then a 7600 laptop edition for Halo 2 Vista. I would say a 7900GS is the best to get. When do you have to purchase this by?

[Varmint260]

I don't have to buy a notebook by any particular date; I'm planning on getting one before the summer, but nothing's written in stone. Thanks for the info!

[onyxghost]

would my 6150 run h2 vista well atticus?

[Atty]

I'd be more worried if it could even run Vista, I think it's a no on both accounts. But we'll have to wait and see.


I don't have to buy a notebook by any particular date; I'm planning on getting one before the summer, but nothings written in stone. Thanks for the info!Oh, that's great. If you wait it out a few months you'll see a price drop in Core 2s, possibly some mid range (affordable) DX10 Laptops, all with Vista (No XP Upgrade stuff.)

[onyxghost]

Its vista capable. its just the h2v part im worried about.

[Atty]

Do you want to run it @ 640x480 @ low settings with an average of 30fps? If so, yeah, I think you could run it. :\

[legionaire45]

That is t3h win, but it is doubtful I could afford anything like that, and I'm unsure as to whether I want a dedicated monitor and the like. Still, this is very sexy!

EDIT: Oh, hey, I finally found on NVidia's website a page that talks all about the 7x00 Go series and what they are capable of. Can someone take a look at this page and translate it? (NVidia Tech-speak to english plz)
http://www.nvidia.com/object/go_7_series_techspecs.html
It also says, BTW, that the 7200, 7300 and 7400 do not include compression technology. What the heck is that, and am I okay without it? And nothing here states any DX10 compatibility... should I be worried?

basically that page is showing off all the features of the card. AKA it supports rendering shiny things like HDR and can go up to 16X AA among other pretty things. Also these support SLI, although I guesstimate that the battery would die before you even got into windows on a 17" laptop xD. Unless of coarse you have some 18 lb huge battery.

[mR_r0b0to]

i say wait until the 8800's get into laptops...

[Pooky]

And fried? Your 2.2Ghz single is about as powerful as one of my cores @ 1Ghz. :)

What you want:
Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM. Get the 2.16GHz Core 2 core, 2GB of ram, and make sure it's Vista.

Get the fuck out richboy :)

here comes another infraction from whiplash despite the fact that I was obviously being silly

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

Get the fuck out richboy :)

here comes another infraction from whiplash despite the fact that I was obviously being silly



What. You know, I am not a retard and I know a joke when I see one. :/

[Atty]

Get the fuck out richboy :)I'm not rich. :)

[Varmint260]

Do you want to run it @ 640x480 @ low settings with an average of 30fps? If so, yeah, I think you could run it. :\

That's better than what I get in Halo now (averagely, 14FPS at 640X480 at max settings and 18 at min settings. eep!)

Of course, it's only now that I realize getting a Radeon 9250 PCI with 256MB of RAM was a completely stupid move on my part (still too embarassed to say what I paid for it a year and a half ago :( ) but hey, what do you learn from? BIG F*****G MISTAKES. Anyhoo...

Thanks for the update, an' I'll consider a 2.0gHz Intel Core Duo, but anything more might be too expensive... unless I wait until June or something. No biggie ;)

[Atty]

If you can barely run Halo on your card then don't even think about running Aero (Vista UI.) That means no chance of H2v. :|

[Pooky]

What. You know, I am not a retard and I know a joke when I see one. :/

You could fool me sometimes <_<

That's cool though ^_^

[Varmint260]

If you can barely run Halo on your card then don't even think about running Aero (Vista UI.) That means no chance of H2v. :|
Why do you think I'm gonna get a new computer? ;) Running on a 6yr old Dell with a Pentium IV, 512MB RAM and an outdated Radeon is NOT for Vista, though it might run Basic.

[Mr Buckshot]

My big question is with the specs I have said I want, what will the various versions of the GeForce Go (7200, 7400, 7500LE, 7600) do? Do they all have the latest Pixel Shader and T&L support, and that sort of thing?
Thanks for the links guys, but I'm really more interested in the GPUs.

By the way, onyxghost, it says your notebook has an NVidia 6150 Go in it, does that render everything in Halo properly? With the exception of camo, of course.

7200 and 7300 = absolute no. They're dedicated cards but aren't powerful enough.

7400 = bare minimum for playable gaming. Try not to get a Turbocache model because those eat up main system RAM and cripple performance. It'll get at least 30 fps in most games but can't push high settings on anything newer than Half-Life 2.

Haven't heard of a 7500, but the Geforce Go 7600 is superb and I highly recommend it. The GT version just offers extra pipelines, and the 7700 is a refresh of the 7600 (same card, faster speed).

Onyxghost's laptop won't run anything newer than Halo on full settings. It'll run lots of games, but it has an INTEGRATED card, so most games will be really bad.

Notebook video cards I recommend (Nvidia):
Geforce Go 6600, 6800 (discontinued), 7600/7700, 7800 (more rare), 7900

ATI recommendations:
ATI Mobility Radeon X700, X1600/X1700

NEVER buy a laptop with an integrated video card (current integrated ones are the Radeon Xpress 200/1100/1150 and Geforce Go 6100/6150).

[legionaire45]

very yes^^^

I would have to recomend for you to wait for DirectX10 GPUs to hit notebooks. Right now NV is working on an 8950 GX2 (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37634) (which means that they have to have a low power notebook styled chip in the works), so it cant be too far off. If you absolutely cant wait or that cash is burning a thigh-sized hole in your pocket, then go for a Go7600 or higher for sure. It should play current DX9 games fine, especially on a lower res screen.

[Varmint260]

7200 and 7300 = absolute no. They're dedicated cards but aren't powerful enough.

7400 = bare minimum for playable gaming. Try not to get a Turbocache model because those eat up main system RAM and cripple performance. It'll get at least 30 fps in most games but can't push high settings on anything newer than Half-Life 2.

Haven't heard of a 7500, but the Geforce Go 7600 is superb and I highly recommend it. The GT version just offers extra pipelines, and the 7700 is a refresh of the 7600 (same card, faster speed).

Onyxghost's laptop won't run anything newer than Halo on full settings. It'll run lots of games, but it has an INTEGRATED card, so most games will be really bad.

Notebook video cards I recommend (Nvidia):
Geforce Go 6600, 6800 (discontinued), 7600/7700, 7800 (more rare), 7900

ATI recommendations:
ATI Mobility Radeon X700, X1600/X1700

NEVER buy a laptop with an integrated video card (current integrated ones are the Radeon Xpress 200/1100/1150 and Geforce Go 6100/6150).

Thanks Mr Buckshot! I wanted a little more info on those cards. NVidia's website is totally useless on this info since they won't say anything but that their cards are the best and why would you want a Radeon, right? They mention everything their cards are capable of, but not what actual performance is, lol. That's the mistake I made with my Radeon 9250. Sounded real good until I found out it's not that good (and get this, they're still selling 9250s for a hundred bucks at London Drugs and Futureshop!). Glad everyone seems to think the 7600 Go is a good shot, but as I said, I won't be buying a laptop until around June. I don't have any excuse to buy one now, and in a few months when they've ironed out a few more bugs in Vista and H2Vista is on the market, I'll be able to get more info on what's necessary to run it decently. Hell, I might even go nuts and wait for those DX10 GPUs (good idea legionaire), but I'm guessing a DX10 compatible card with the performance I want will at that point be prohibitively expensive. Aww well!

By the way, legionaire45, what do you mean by a "lower res screen"? If you mean 640X480, then I should be shot for even thinking of gaming with a laptop. If you mean 1024X768 as a "low res", that's WAY better.

[Mr Buckshot]

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3056&guide=Graphics+Card+Guide+2006

I just found that site. Try it. It's useful for newbies.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=39568 also helps. Same as above but provides more info.

Also, don't be surprised when you see that notebook cards are less powerful than desktop cousins, because they need to produce less heat and keep battery life up. Therefore, a Geforce Go 7900 GS will be less powerful than a desktop version, but will still offer tons of gaming power.

I recommend you buy a widescreen laptop because widescreen rules, not just for games but for basic schoolwork (side by side application viewing) and for DVD movies. Widescreen resolutions are WXGA (1280x800 or 1280x768), WXGA+ (1440x900), WSXGA (1680x1050), and WUXGA (1920x1200).

ATI's notebook cards are pretty good too. The ATI Mobility Radeon X700 is currently the bare minimum for gaming with high settings at decent resolutions. The breakdown of current Mobility Radeons:

X300 - Loser card. Shouldn't even exist

X600 - bare minimum for playable gaming, like the Geforce 7400.

X700 - bare minimum for gaming with high settings, but lacks DX9c support (only goes to DX9b)

X800 - discontinued, but was powerful

X1300 - same class as X300. Ignore it altogether

X1400 - same class as Geforce 7400

X1600/X1700 - The 1700 is a refresh of the 1600. Excellent cards, highly recommended, also for reasonable prices (less than $1800, whole notebook)

X1800 - top of the line, but good luck finding it available.

[legionaire45]

By the way, legionaire45, what do you mean by a "lower res screen"? If you mean 640X480, then I should be shot for even thinking of gaming with a laptop. If you mean 1024X768 as a "low res", that's WAY better.

By low res I meant >1024 x 768, <1920 x 1080. Thats low res to me since my mom got a 30" cinema display xD, sorry for not explaining myself further. With anything above a 7600 GT and a C2D you would be fine on most games at any of those resolutions (for now at least), but I would definately wait for DX10 notebooks.

[Varmint260]

By low res I meant >1024 x 768, <1920 x 1080. Thats low res to me since my mom got a 30" cinema display xD, sorry for not explaining myself further. With anything above a 7600 GT and a C2D you would be fine on most games at any of those resolutions (for now at least), but I would definately wait for DX10 notebooks.

Thanks very much for that. I'm getting a better picture of what I'm looking for now.

And, Mr Buckshot, I find it very hard to even find a lappy these days that ISN'T widescreen, so don't worry! Thanks!

[Zeph]

Atty do you have any idea when Alienware will be putting G80's in their notebooks?

They'll put G80 varients, such as an 8600, in notebooks after March. The G80 is too much for notebooks. It'd burn up or draw too much power.

[TheGhost]

Well, I wasn't specifically thinking G80 cards as much as I was thinking about DX10. If I get a laptop now it won't be DX10 capable because there are no laptop cards with DX10 capability right now. Thoughts?

[legionaire45]

Well, I wasn't specifically thinking G80 cards as much as I was thinking about DX10. If I get a laptop now it won't be DX10 capable because there are no laptop cards with DX10 capability right now. Thoughts?

Wait until more info on ATI's midrange stuff comes out. I think both cards will be out at around the same time, I'll check up on that later.

[Cortexian]

Varmint, check this Notebook out, it will end up being a little over $2000 but it's a good deal, if not that one I suggest you look around the memory express notebooks section for the one you want. If your in Canada (which it looks like you are because of your statement about price limit) memory express are the people to buy from.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=9776&SID=

[Varmint260]

Varmint, check this Notebook out, it will end up being a little over $2000 but it's a good deal, if not that one I suggest you look around the memory express notebooks section for the one you want. If your in Canada (which it looks like you are because of your statement about price limit) memory express are the people to buy from.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=9776&SID=

oh GAWD NO! NOT ACER! *chokes, dies*

There are some computer manufacturers I have a lot of faith in, there are ones I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, and then there's Acer. Every person I have ever talked to here who has had an Acer has complained. The complaints range from BSOD problems and crappy tech support to a lot of melting components.

Thanks for the suggestion anyways, because beside the fact it's an Acer, it looks very good hardware-wise. :)

[Cortexian]

Hey Varmint, I've heard and experianced the same from/on peoples computers that have no idea on how to fix things, I would rather have an Acer or an Asus then a big brand HP or Dell (except an XPS possibly). I'm not implying that you don't know anything, all you have to do to get rid of those BSOD problems is upgrade the firmware, then reinstall a plain Microsoft retail version of Windows.

Most of those problems come from the manufacturer installing modified versions of Windows, I'm not sure exactly what the tech term for them is, but I'm talking about the versions that come with "Extras" from the manufacturer.

[legionaire45]

Hey Varmint, I've heard and experianced the same from/on peoples computers that have no idea on how to fix things, I would rather have an Acer or an Asus then a big brand HP or Dell (except an XPS possibly). I'm not implying that you don't know anything, all you have to do to get rid of those BSOD problems is upgrade the firmware, then reinstall a plain Microsoft retail version of Windows.

Most of those problems come from the manufacturer installing modified versions of Windows, I'm not sure exactly what the tech term for them is, but I'm talking about the versions that come with "Extras" from the manufacturer.


They slipstream useless software on, usually in a very half-asses manner. If I had a choice I would install my own OS anyway. Who needs al the junk the average OEM's install on the computers anyways? Let the consumer choose what they want.

/rant for the day.

[Varmint260]

I understand. Makes sense that the stupid manufacturer would force their own crap on you. However, I'm not exactly planning on going into computer repair as a profession, and I draw the line at reinstalling the OS. I'm just really lazy. In any case, I'm gonna put a hold on getting a computer for a few months, so I'll see what happens.

[Cortexian]

As long as you don't have anything on your PC that you really need (aka as long as you don't have to backup anything) reinstalling the OS is actually easy. More so with Windows Vista, unless of course, you get an error.

Its as simple as:

1) Insert Vista DVD.
2) Reboot computer.
3) Boot from DVD.
4) Choose Clean (advanced) install.
5) Select your Local Disk C:.
6) Format C:.
7) Click Install.
8) Go watch a movie while it installs.
9) Go back and watch the progress bar go from 92% - 100%
10) Ignore step 8 with Vista as it only takes about half an hour to install.

[Mr Buckshot]

They slipstream useless software on, usually in a very half-asses manner. If I had a choice I would install my own OS anyway. Who needs al the junk the average OEM's install on the computers anyways? Let the consumer choose what they want.

/rant for the day.

If you buy a laptop, it'll inevitably have bloatware unless it's one of those customizable and expensive ones like those from Alienware. Besides, on www.notebookreview.com, a lot of reviewers will reformat their hard drives asap to remove bloatware.

[legionaire45]

get this with the wireless card option (http://www.rjtech.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CP-HEL80)
this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822146226)
this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231116)
and any of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=50001157+2010340343+1050923320&Subcategory=&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=) you can afford. My 2.1 ghz C2D desktop chip is blazing fast and even when it was 1.8 it was still fast, so I would recomend the 2.0 ghz along with a warranty on the lappy.

The laptop has a Go 7600 built in. Also according to several reviews it is a very cool notebook temp and style wise.

Dude, I have AIDS now D=

Barebones - the better choice. You install the OS, and therefore if you install bloatware it is your fault and you fail.

[mR_r0b0to]

my toshiba didn't come with an xp cd.. it just came with a "set to factory default" cd which has a bunch of crap in it. so i just delete the bloatware right after.

[Cortexian]

Yea my grandparents Hp came with one of those, its just two CD's, one has XP Media Center Edition 2005 on it, the other has the bloatware, to bad I can't just cancel it after the first CD and go "In your face HP".