Where to start for UT2004 modding?

[Sel]

Ive been spending the better part of the night going around UT2004 modding sites looking for a startes guide, and Ive found some stuff that looks like the right direction, but Its all rather overwhelming and confusing. This one site linked me over some the epic games site and there were a bunch of different downloads and such.

Pretty much, Im wondering where do I start, and what do I need to give this stuff a shot?

[Zeph]

Well, the good thing about UT2004 is that its BSPs are brush based. You dont need any form of external modeling program to make a level. As for where to go for tutorials, I'm not sure. I had a book to teach me. I also have about 7.5GB of video tutorials starting from the utter basics made by 3dBuzz. But of course most of that is stuff you dont really need, such as machinima stuff, scripting, maya stuff, etc.


Here's a link (http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Unreal-Technology-Level-Design/dp/0672326922/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213070697&sr=8-1) to the book I had to get for a class.

[Sel]

Book looks like itd be a great place to start, but I dont really have any money to spare for it :/

Im really curious where 3ds max would come in for this, or if its all brush based UED stuff?

[Ki11a_FTW]

The BSPs are made of brushes, though you can make seperate static objects in 3ds max, then import them in

[Zeph]

Max only comes into play if you want to have some custom geometry in the level that isn't simply brush boxes.

[Sel]

That seems kinda lame :/

I was hoping this would be something that I could move to after CE to improve my 3dsmax modelling.

So does this mean that if I want to create content with max it has to be in the form of the Ut equivelants of halo scenery objects, devices, weapons, vehicles, and such?

[Zeph]

Unless you want box levels, you'll want to use Max. So yeah, you'll be using to make the equivilent of halo scenery.

[MMFSdjw]

I'm not sure exactly how different 2k4 is from ut3 but if I'm right you don't have to use brushes at all. it's probably a good idea to use them but you can build the entire level out of static meshs too.
maping for unreal is definalty a way to improve your modeling skills. If for no other reason than it's a different method of mapping and requires somewhat different modeling.

[Zeph]

I'm not sure exactly how different 2k4 is from ut3 but if I'm right you don't have to use brushes at all. it's probably a good idea to use them but you can build the entire level out of static meshs too.
maping for unreal is definalty a way to improve your modeling skills. If for no other reason than it's a different method of mapping and requires somewhat different modeling.

It's just an illusion. UT2k4 is purely a subtractive environment. UT3 is by default additive, but you can change it to subtractive. When you just make a level using static meshes, UT3 subtracts a box around it for the level to play in. Well, actually, it starts out with the subtraction box already made and you add the static meshes inside.

[Sel]

So, from what I understand here I could create the level in max, and then just import it as a scenery, and still be able to use it and populate it efficiently in the UnrealED?

[Ki11a_FTW]

I wouldent make the whole thing into one scenery, split it into different parts

[Sel]

Im starting to find this engine less and less appealing :\

[Ki11a_FTW]

unreal 07 ftw.

[Zeph]

I wouldent make the whole thing into one scenery, split it into different parts

Yeah, from what I've found, there's no way to work with material IDs for an object.


unreal 07 ftw.
The only real differences between 07 and 04 is 07 has the potential to look better. It's still the same engine.

[MMFSdjw]

I wouldent make the whole thing into one scenery, split it into different parts

I acctualy did exactly that.
I imported a low poly version of my whole map (THIS (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9796) map actualy (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=251263&postcount=7)) and set it to per poly collision and was able to populate and playtest it.

Then replaced that one large mesh piece by piece with static meshs
And the result is right here (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9345).

[Sel]

Unreal editor confuzzles me :haw:

Im not really sure if I want to move to this engine after CE. Im looking for something with a similiar development process to halo's, in other words, make level in max, import to into the game.

Any suggestions, besides halo 2 :/

Till then Ill keep looking around in the Unreal Engine for what I could do

[MMFSdjw]

technicaly you can build your entire level in max, if you design it right, all you have to do is export all the pieces and assemble them in unrealed.
Halo is a very unique engine. I don't know of any others that use max as much as it does.
If only there was an engine that had all the high points of Halo and unreal it would be the perfect engine to map for.

[Zeph]

Unreal editor confuzzles me :haw:

Im not really sure if I want to move to this engine after CE. Im looking for something with a similiar development process to halo's, in other words, make level in max, import to into the game.

Any suggestions, besides halo 2 :/

Till then Ill keep looking around in the Unreal Engine for what I could do

You wont find many PC games that do that. You make the entire Halo BSP in Max because that engine is optimized to run on the limited resources of a console. Every single vertex can be managed. PC engines are typically more sloppy. But as said by other people, you can still work the same way. Just make a subtraction box that will fit your level mesh and place it inside. However, if you do that, you're going to run into UV mapping, lighting, and possible preformance problems. Just make your entire level in Max, then slice it up so a lot of the stuff is separate objects. Any time you have a flat wall or floor, use the Subtraction/Addition brushes to make them ingame.

[MMFSdjw]

Exactly what he said.
And while you're building pay attention to things that can be repeated like pillars or lights so you can use fewer unique static meshes.
Also remember that unreal can scale meshes too.
On a map I'm currently making, I had two meshes, they looked the same except one was half as wide as the other but I realized I could simple scale the larger one down by half on that one axis and there was most no difference between them.
stuff like that can save you a lot of work and file size.

[Sel]

You wont find many PC games that do that. You make the entire Halo BSP in Max because that engine is optimized to run on the limited resources of a console. Every single vertex can be managed. PC engines are typically more sloppy. But as said by other people, you can still work the same way. Just make a subtraction box that will fit your level mesh and place it inside. However, if you do that, you're going to run into UV mapping, lighting, and possible preformance problems. Just make your entire level in Max, then slice it up so a lot of the stuff is separate objects. Any time you have a flat wall or floor, use the Subtraction/Addition brushes to make them ingame.

I guess thats cool, but still kinda lame. Oh well, Ill figure it out as I go. Thanks for the help.

[Phopojijo]

technicaly you can build your entire level in max, if you design it right, all you have to do is export all the pieces and assemble them in unrealed.
Halo is a very unique engine. I don't know of any others that use max as much as it does.
If only there was an engine that had all the high points of Halo and unreal it would be the perfect engine to map for.In UnrealEngine3 this is true... however for UT2004 there is a few serious issues with this, one being the most serious:

Static Meshes can only be vertex lit.

In UT2004 you'd ideally want to build the walls, ramps, floors, using Brushes... then place decorating objects around made in 3dsMax.

In UT3 you can still do this... but the world is moving towards modeling your geometry in a 3d program and importing into the editor. There's also no need for portaling... if a part of a mesh is visible, the whole thing is visible... if not -- it's not. It's really that simple. Just make sure to split up your mesh enough to occlude properly.

That's how I'm doing Skyhook.

Then also can be lightmapped and dynamically lit as well so you can add that extra lighting detail on very low polygon meshes.