PDA

View Full Version : Some thoughts and History of Halo 2



legionaire45
February 18th, 2007, 04:17 AM
Here are some of my thoughts on H2's story, not multiplayer. I just recently bought the game for my 360 and have the story fresh in my head, and its a far cry from what the E3 demo was. Please dont turn this into a flame war though, I dont want to have to lock my own thread or waste a mod's time.

I learned something very interesting about H2 the other day: it was rushed. REALLY RUSHED. If you remember the E3 demo it was awesome, filled with tons of action, and also didnt make the master chief look like some unstoppable god of a person. The Humans were losing, people were DIEING. Chaos was everywhere, and you could really tell just how screwed humanity was. Little things like the longswords bombing the covenant morter added in a ton of spirit and coolness to the story being told. The fact that the Earth was being invaded everywhere left a sense of hopelessness and made you wonder how exactly you would combat the covenant threat. The master chief being put into an impossible situation at the end made you really want to know how you would stop the army of elites about to lunge at you. Sadly, no one every would get to see that side of Halo 2.

In order to get that awesome demo set up, bungie had to spend 8 months on content and testing alone. Bungie did not have 8 months to spend on each level, or else we still probably would be waiting for H2 to be done. If Bungie wanted to get H2 out the door in time they had to cut dev time at the expense of the story. That is where I feel many players dont like Halo 2. Many have said that it just does not play like the original, and I can attribute this to that fact.

For example, compare the Earth levels between the E3 demo and what actually was put into Halo 2. In what was actually released (i'll refer to it as "H2R" from now on), There is very little in terms of the feeling of being on the front lines of a gruesome war. Instead, you are crawling through a maze of buildings after a glorified wraith-with-legs, which you some how destroy even though it has a small army of covenant onboard/in the surrounding area. Somehow, you manage to kill this army, and conveniantly find yourself following the prophet of regret to yet another Halo, destorying yet another Halo, conveniantly with the Daughter of the captain of the Pillar of Autumn. gj.

If you look at some of the pre-H2E3 screenshots you will notice unmistakeable Delta-halo-ish landscapes. However, my guess is that in H2E3 you wouldnt get to delta halo the way that was protrayed in H2R. According to the books, which Bungie describes as Cannon while completely blowing them off, the covenant refused to enter slipspace from within a planet's atmosphere even though they had the capabilities to do so. They even considered it heresy, as pointed out by a covenant AI in First Strike. Would a prophet really want to commit such a blasphemous act? Would a prophet really want to risk giving away the location of a Halo, especially in light of the recent events at the first one? Also, if the Halo you fought on in H1 was the first one found by the covenant, then how the hell did Regret have his own personal fortress built up on Delta Halo in the few weeks to months that it took the MC to get back to Earth (once again, according to the books)? Also, back to halo 1, the covenant would not risk destroying a relic on Halo in order to take out all of the humans (or a significant portion) even though they had the opportunity many times. That was the only reason you weren't blown to hell in the first place. In H2, they actually BOMBARD where the masterchief killed Regret with their plasma bombs, essentially using their Glassing technique on their holy relic. Complete 360 from Halo 1 in any case. There are quite a few more hypocrasies I can mention, but won't add for sake of keeping this post shorter. If you think about it, they aren't hard to find.

The reason I mention the books is that Eric Nylund, the author of 3/4 of them, had direct access to the Halo Story Bible. I would hope that Bungie did too, but why do the books and H2R dispute each other so much? Because Bungie had to rush H2 and skip certain content in order to get the game released, at least thats my theory.

About the weapons, which many people do not like. I believe that Bungie was honestly trying to improve Halo 1's weapon set, but failed miserably in doing so. In Halo 1 every weapon had its own unique use. Matches didnt devolve into who could get to the power-weapons first because every weapon was balanced perfectly (except the pistol, but that still is counterable by a skilled player). In Halo 2, every weapon is simply made to counter another. Im sure we all know which one counters which so I wont mention them here. Also, all the weapons are so dumbed down that it really isn't hard at all to go on a raping spree. Making the RL home in on targets was a stupid move on Bungie's part considering it took one of the few hard to master weapons and made it into serial-rape in a tube. The BR is basically the pistol except that you can 3sk with one trigger pull. The SMG's are either completely useless alone or extremely overpowering together especially when you have a brute plasma and SMG combo. And as a side note on the design of the weapons, they just dont fit Halo very well at all. Yet another side note, how the heck does the UNSC completely refit their army in 1-2 months while getting rid of all the old weapons stocks? yet again, gj.

However, I do have to add that Bungie did do a few good things with the weapon system. The Shotgun really didn't change much and is one of the few counters to the noob impaling stick known as the energy sword, and the melee was sped up and made more natural when compared to H1. Dual wielding is a mixed blessing but depending on the weapon can be good. Adding Lunge to all weapon's melee also leaves me with a mixed reaction considering it tones down the sword whoring and gives you a chance in close quarters fighting, but also makes it easy for a noob to abuse it. Then again, you cant really abuse something that is given to you can you? xD.

Thinking about it now, I believe I have found yet another pausible cause/factor as to why H2 doesnt seem/play like H1. From what I remember, the former head of bungie either was kicked off of the team or left part way through development. I remember H1 playing a lot more like Marathon story-wise, while Halo 2 seemed radically differant. I believe this trend will continue with H3 sadly =/. This is the part that saddens me the most, considering I have followed Halo basically from Day one all the way back at Macworld 1999.

On the topic of H3, another interesting thing I learned about H2 and H3 was that originally H2 was going to be the last game in the series. However, either Bungie didnt have the time to finish H2 or the wanted to release the H3 element of the story later in another form. If that last reason is the case, then either Bungie wanted the game to be shorter, they couldn't fit the content onto a single DVD (I can't verify that) or they wanted people to have to buy a third Halo game, hence making them lots more money. That obviosly is not easily proven but still is a slight possibility.

I want to hear what you guys have to say since generally this forum doesnt start large wildthreadfires, something I can not say of GBX. However, I want to avoid a flamewar as much as possible because I'm sure that the mods really don't want to deal with another pointless H1>H2 battle. I want to hear your ideas. Just try not to bash heads too much, since this type of topic generally lights like Gasoline.

rossmum
February 18th, 2007, 05:26 AM
Halo 2 lost the atmosphere. Other than that I found it a highly enjoyable game, though the original game is impossible to recreate so they are hard to compare. I doubt even Bungie could get it entirely right, Halo was just that... unique.

The way that both games and the books conflicted annoyed me greatly, though.

someone
February 18th, 2007, 06:42 AM
Well, I can't really compare Halo and Halo 2, because I haven't played Halo 2 yet. I'll try it out myself when Halo 2 vista comes out before I say something about this.

thehoodedsmack
February 18th, 2007, 07:33 AM
Halo 2 was like a movie to me. I found it very enjoyable, though.

Agamemnon
February 18th, 2007, 09:21 AM
You, sir, deserve a medal.

Chief117
February 18th, 2007, 10:19 AM
damn right he does! Halo 2 did pretty much suck other than the multiplayer. though then again the could be noobs roaming an-nvm. It's fine. Halo 2's campaign was sometimes pretty boring. The arbiter screwed it up, I don't understand why he had to be in there, and some of the scenery we also repetitive. Also, Showing us the sophistication of the covenant makes me feel I'm no longer fighting these sort of, Gruesome,savage hostile aliens, and i feel like I'm fighting another sort of twisted mutated human in the wrong war. They're like, it's hard to say, but they no longer feel like the savage, killing aliens I'm used to pwning.They're now like, all not as savage and more..like some sort of highly civilized tribe or something.

legionaire45
February 18th, 2007, 06:53 PM
damn right he does! Halo 2 did pretty much suck other than the multiplayer. though then again the could be noobs roaming an-nvm. It's fine. Halo 2's campaign was sometimes pretty boring. The arbiter screwed it up, I don't understand why he had to be in there, and some of the scenery we also repetitive. Also, Showing us the sophistication of the covenant makes me feel I'm no longer fighting these sort of, Gruesome,savage hostile aliens, and i feel like I'm fighting another sort of twisted mutated human in the wrong war. They're like, it's hard to say, but they no longer feel like the savage, killing aliens I'm used to pwning.They're now like, all not as savage and more..like some sort of highly civilized tribe or something.

Don't get me wrong, I think Halo 2 didn't outright suck, but it certainly didn't play like the first. There certainly are worse games out there.

Agamemnon
February 18th, 2007, 07:48 PM
More overtly flawed then the first is what you mean, correct?

rossmum
February 18th, 2007, 11:05 PM
damn right he does! Halo 2 did pretty much suck other than the multiplayer. though then again the could be noobs roaming an-nvm. It's fine. Halo 2's campaign was sometimes pretty boring. The arbiter screwed it up, I don't understand why he had to be in there, and some of the scenery we also repetitive. Also, Showing us the sophistication of the covenant makes me feel I'm no longer fighting these sort of, Gruesome,savage hostile aliens, and i feel like I'm fighting another sort of twisted mutated human in the wrong war. They're like, it's hard to say, but they no longer feel like the savage, killing aliens I'm used to pwning.They're now like, all not as savage and more..like some sort of highly civilized tribe or something.
Uh, that's exactly what the Covenant were right from the start. We just never saw that part in Halo because we were too busy blowing them up.

I for one was overjoyed to hear they had included the Arbiter as a playable character, and I wasn't disappointed ingame. He had quite a few enjoyable missions and having Elites as teammates was, quite frankly, awesome.

ExAm
February 19th, 2007, 12:30 PM
The arbiter screwed it up, I don't understand why he had to be in there, and some of the scenery we also repetitive. Also, Showing us the sophistication of the covenant makes me feel I'm no longer fighting these sort of, Gruesome,savage hostile aliens, and i feel like I'm fighting another sort of twisted mutated human in the wrong war. They're like, it's hard to say, but they no longer feel like the savage, killing aliens I'm used to pwning.They're now like, all not as savage and more..like some sort of highly civilized tribe or something.

I like it that way. Adds depth to the story.

Dole
February 19th, 2007, 07:56 PM
You bring up many good points, and Halo 2 would have been much more awesome had it took the E3 route.

About the weapons, however, you can't expect the entire galaxy-spanning UNSC army to all be using the same five or six weapons, can you?
Add that to the fact that the scene switches from one single shipload of crewman abandoned on Halo (with limited resources, mind you) to Earth, the center of human civilization.

Zeph
February 19th, 2007, 08:31 PM
I would probably have concerns after playing Halo 2 analytically, but my biggest gripe was going from E3 to H2R. In the E3 demo, we had everything Halo 1 was multiplied into awesomeness. The Chief was back and he looked soo much better. His attitude showed him as the same character, if not more deep in thought. He had a job, and everyone knew he was there to do it. In H2R, he was there, he was a hero, and he was in a bright cheerful mood.

The E3 demo was dark, exciting, and posed a great number of questions. Just the first few seconds where you see the chief flying into an Earth megalopolis with a covenant ship was amazing. The art was unique, futuristic and stylized, yet friendly to consoles. The music was very fitting to the theme, causing the player to sit back and take the scene in, wondering just what is happening and why. Marines taking cover in buildings, as a last line of defense, firing shots through holes in the wall to halt an advance shows how desparate they are, yet they still have their badass attitudes. The woulded division commander still staying on the line in desparate need of help, getting the battalion of reinforcements you know he's wanting in four men. The cannon fodder that has proven such a problem being broken through. Seeing a new enemy that better fills the gap between Jackal and Elite. Managing to distract air support while having calvary units chasing you then pulling an oshi stunt to take care of it. Finding yourself separated, yet ready to take on the capital ship, only to find yourself surrounded by the toughest enemies in the game at their strongest....

None of that turned out to be Halo 2, even though it was the soul and essence of what was preached through the announcement trailer, E3 Demo, and Commercials (especially seeing how you didn't know the game would be covenant based). It would be like Rockstar games showing that trailer for Bully then it ending up being a Final Fantasy styled RPG.

Halo 2 was the biggest dissapointment I've ever had in gaming. I had fun playing the multiplayer with my friends until I got to a point where I saw how flawed it was, but that still didn't help my dissapointment. It's incredibly sad since I still get goosebumps and tear up when watching the H2 E3 Demo every now and then. I can only hope they make Halo 3 the game the E3 demo could have been.

ExAm
February 19th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Agreed.

legionaire45
February 20th, 2007, 03:02 AM
I would probably have concerns after playing Halo 2 analytically, but my biggest gripe was going from E3 to H2R. In the E3 demo, we had everything Halo 1 was multiplied into awesomeness. The Chief was back and he looked soo much better. His attitude showed him as the same character, if not more deep in thought. He had a job, and everyone knew he was there to do it. In H2R, he was there, he was a hero, and he was in a bright cheerful mood.

The E3 demo was dark, exciting, and posed a great number of questions. Just the first few seconds where you see the chief flying into an Earth megalopolis with a covenant ship was amazing. The art was unique, futuristic and stylized, yet friendly to consoles. The music was very fitting to the theme, causing the player to sit back and take the scene in, wondering just what is happening and why. Marines taking cover in buildings, as a last line of defense, firing shots through holes in the wall to halt an advance shows how desparate they are, yet they still have their badass attitudes. The woulded division commander still staying on the line in desparate need of help, getting the battalion of reinforcements you know he's wanting in four men. The cannon fodder that has proven such a problem being broken through. Seeing a new enemy that better fills the gap between Jackal and Elite. Managing to distract air support while having calvary units chasing you then pulling an oshi stunt to take care of it. Finding yourself separated, yet ready to take on the capital ship, only to find yourself surrounded by the toughest enemies in the game at their strongest....

None of that turned out to be Halo 2, even though it was the soul and essence of what was preached through the announcement trailer, E3 Demo, and Commercials (especially seeing how you didn't know the game would be covenant based). It would be like Rockstar games showing that trailer for Bully then it ending up being a Final Fantasy styled RPG.

Halo 2 was the biggest dissapointment I've ever had in gaming. I had fun playing the multiplayer with my friends until I got to a point where I saw how flawed it was, but that still didn't help my dissapointment. It's incredibly sad since I still get goosebumps and tear up when watching the H2 E3 Demo every now and then. I can only hope they make Halo 3 the game the E3 demo could have been.

Absolutely agreed!

n00b1n8R
February 20th, 2007, 03:47 AM
zeph wins. have some rep!

Dole
February 20th, 2007, 03:12 PM
Halo 2 was the biggest dissapointment I've ever had in gaming. I had fun playing the multiplayer with my friends until I got to a point where I saw how flawed it was, but that still didn't help my dissapointment. It's incredibly sad since I still get goosebumps and tear up when watching the H2 E3 Demo every now and then. I can only hope they make Halo 3 the game the E3 demo could have been.
I hate you.
I haven't cried in four years. I have no choice but to +rep you.

I also remember when they first started advertising Halo 2 in the back of video game manuals, and there was some kind of nighttime level for New Mombasa. That pissed me off when it wasn't in there.
Could this be the start of an alternate, custom campaign for H2V? I'll start writing a story.

Pooky
February 20th, 2007, 03:40 PM
To me, fighting a mindless enemy is pointless and stupid. Because, in a real war, your enemies aren't just out to kill you. They have their own motives, goals and desires, and very often aren't that different from you. The storyline in Halo 2 portrayed that spectacularly. Can't say anything about the gameplay, as I never got a chance to play the Campaign for myself. To me, it was the human side of the story that felt rushed and somewhat sloppily done.

n00b1n8R
February 20th, 2007, 03:58 PM
i like how they have made some covenant levels, and how they have refined their character, but i allso agree that they should have made the whole thing abit bleaker from the human and late arbeter point of view (as in after the prophets have dis-owned them)

n00b out

Corgy
February 22nd, 2007, 04:58 AM
Zeph's pretty right but crying? What the hell guys. Closest thing that'd get me to tearing up is remembering the badass moments I had at LANs. Even then it's not really a "tearing up" thing.

Master Chief
February 22nd, 2007, 07:06 AM
i liked all of the levels of Halo 2, especially the first Arbiter level, cuz of what two Grunts say:

Grunt 1: Me have bad feeling.

Grunt 2: You always have bad feeling. You have bad feeling about morning food nipple!

XD lol

Chief117
February 25th, 2007, 09:13 AM
*sighs* i guess you guys are right, they just dont make crazy uncivilized aliens like they used to..

Boba
April 2nd, 2007, 04:45 PM
Even though you guys have some great points, I'm going to have to disagree. I mean, I'm not a die hard Halo 2 fan doing anything to defend it but, In my opinion, the atmosphere of the first game was there and maybe even more so. The whole campaign looked and felt stunning (I beat it while playing co-op with my friend). Take Regret (the level) for example, It was my favorite place between both games.

Rosco
April 6th, 2007, 06:52 AM
lol, flood encounter simular to the human one MC watches. That's the only mission I liked, and it would have been better if humans were trying to discover a hidden remote place in that facility with the MC.

Rob Oplawar
April 6th, 2007, 06:50 PM
For me, Halo 2 had some really good moments, especially the moment when the arbiter cuts the cable suspending the station. However, what makes the game good is not only the momet but the build-up to the moment. Take 343 GS on Halo 1: The set up for the flood is spectacular. First the creepy swamp, with shadows moving in the distance, and even the Covenant in disarray on the ground, then the panicked marine, and finally Jenkins' battle recorder... brilliant. The Halo 2 E3 demo was close, but not quite as good- like has been said, the marines' dire situation is very well portrayed, and then the air strike on the mortar. In H2R the build-up was missing. Like so many shooters before, the game got too into the run-and-gun aspect, and the in-game storytelling suffered.

In fact, that's what it is for me- to me, immersive gameplay means even when you're busy shooting aliens you feel the storyline around you, instead of just having fight, pause, cinematic, pause, fight, etc.

From what little Frankie and others have revealed about Halo 3, I'm optimistic for various reasons, but mostly because the mere scale of the game should make it feel more cinematic even in gameplay. Halo 2 had big environments, but they were static- Halo 3 should at least have amazing backdrops going for it, and if it doesn't, I'll needless to say be very disappointed.