new project, trying something new.

[MMFSdjw]

ok, as the title says I want to try something new so I'm going to try to make a map for both Halo and ut3 simultaneously.

This is inspired largly by danger canyon,

Concept of the beach side
http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v288/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34455943_2384.jpg

layout
pink is highest, blue main level, with a tunnel under the middle.
And green for the river that will go from the waterfall through the cavern to the ocean
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v288/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34455945_2954.jpg

unfinished concept from the top of the lower part looking up to the right.
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v288/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34455944_2706.jpg

And finaly a rough of the base terrain in max
with a water plane
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v288/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34455946_3269.jpg

At this point I'm not entirly sure how I'm going to do this, but I think this should be a fun experiment.

Thoughts?

[Heathen]

Nice concept drawing.

[n00b1n8R]

I've always loved maps where you had to come up out of water or walk along tight paths on cliffs above it (one of the reasons I <3'd that map with the two bases and the totally unbalanced game play and the river flowing down hill THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF). and that concept of yours looks really cool.

I find it kind of hard to visualise the layout from those images though. :/

[ultama121]

Judging by the images, you seem to have a nice design, I'll download both versions if I remember. ;)

[Phobias]

I've always loved maps where you had to come up out of water or walk along tight paths on cliffs above it (one of the reasons I <3'd that map with the two bases and the totally unbalanced game play and the river flowing down hill THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF). and that concept of yours looks really cool.

I find it kind of hard to visualise the layout from those images though. :/

x2_Mudslide.

Oh, and the concept is nice.

[Kornman00]

Nice concept drawing.
.

I like the beach idea and concept, good luck!

[Bastinka]

I wish I could get shading down in drawings :[

GL with your project, also nice concepts.

[Hunter]

Yeah. Nice concepts. Now just make sure you model it good. And model the cliffs good as not many people do.

[Evil_Monkey]

I love that first picture, even though its a sketchy drawing it works really well.

Good luck with the map.

[Hotrod]

Those concepts are very nice, you have a lot of skill. From what I've seen, this map could be quite good. I wish you the best of luck with this project.

[adumass]

First picture is giving me ideas, but I always mess up rivers in ce. So the ut3 version will be high poly compared to the ce version right?

[MMFSdjw]

Thanks for the kind words folks.
I understand my sketchs are a bit vauge.
so I blocked out the major landscape
Once I get the interior areas blocked out I'll import this into unreal ed and take a walk around it to get a feel for the size & flow.
http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34457222_704.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34457223_1006.jpg

And adumass, yes the ut version with be higher poly but by how much I can't say at this point.
The ut version will almost completely use custom meshes so it will look almost the same.
I'm still running through my head ways to convert back and forth and some would result in a greater difference, some with less difference.
at this point I'm just not sure.

[jngrow]

That's pretty cool how you worked that out. Good luck, keep going :P.

[PopeAK49]

geometry is alittle boxy, but im sure you will still edit the geometry to make it even more preatier.

[Bastinka]

geometry is alittle boxy, but im sure you will still edit the geometry to make it even more preatier.
Did you even read his post?

[MMFSdjw]

lol, yeah, this is not the final geometry in any way, this is nothing more than a reference to get the layout finalized.

Here's the interior parts.
I'm not entirely happy with the ramps here.
Also, as I look at it I notice it bares some resemblance to one of the room in Chiron, that was not intentional, but I may draw some more elements of that room into here. I'll have to stew on that a bit.
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34457906_4175.jpg

And the other interior
In UT there will be an elevator there, in Halo it will be a teleporter.
And that will be an unbreakable glass window there.
http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34457907_4480.jpg

[PopeAK49]

Did you even read his post?

no actually i didn't, but i did admire the concepts and the layout of the 3d design.

[MMFSdjw]

lol, well ya know, posting on message boards tends to go much more smoothly when you read the other posts.

but Anyway,
This is one reason I love the unreal engine,
I could populate this right now and have a fully playable version already.
I could be wrong but I think that the scale differece between Halo & ut is about 1.5, however, to compensate for ut's faster speed I'm scaling it up by 2.
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34458025_3620.jpg

[PopeAK49]

looks really fun in ut3, and not too mention the detail it looks really nice smoothed out. btw is that going to be a creek in the middle or what?

[MMFSdjw]

Yes, as stated in the first post. The green path in the layout starts with a waterfall, goes through an underground cavern and comes out into the ocean.

[MMFSdjw]

Ok, so let me run this past yall,
the biggest issue I've had when thinking about how to go about this is how to not have every part of the ut3 version be a seperate, unique mesh.
In case you don't know, in ut3 a mesh is just like a piece of scenery in Halo exept it can be freely scaled.

So I'm trying to think of a way to utilise this here so I'm going to try and use Max's object instanceing thing. Where you clone an object you can freely move, rotate & scale it but any changes made to the geometry are applied to every instance.
So it's basicaly the same as ut's system exept, obviously, with alot more freedom and options.

So, I'm going to try and build this map useing instances so in unreal ed I can use the same mesh multiple times.
then for the halo version just attach & cut all the instances into the main mesh.

Does that make sense?

Yall have any thoughts on it?

[bobbysoon]

So, in ut3, you manually define clusters, instead of using portals?

For instancing, here's a tip, in case you didn't know: Entering "instanceReplace <dest> <src>" into the mini-listener (in Max's lower left corner) replaces each of <dest> with <src>. For example, "instanceReplace $Obj* $o" makes 'Object01' and the rest into instances of 'o'

[Tweek]

lol, well ya know, posting on message boards tends to go much more smoothly when you read the other posts.

but Anyway,
This is one reason I love the unreal engine,
I could populate this right now and have a fully playable version already.
I could be wrong but I think that the scale differece between Halo & ut is about 1.5, however, to compensate for ut's faster speed I'm scaling it up by 2.

from my experience, UT level scale is about twice as large as halo scale, but level-dimension wise, the level is all totally normal size, but the UT CHARACTERS are very small compared to their environment.

i think they did it in ut1 because it improved latency or something, by scaling down the characters, only they stuck with it since then.

you'd be best off taking a few reference shots in the editor in stock levels, and placing a character actor next to some objects you could use as reference (like a planter, or some stairs, or even windows) they're all HUGE compared to the character.

[MMFSdjw]

I got the scale thing from importing the mastercheif thing that I'm using in max for scale reference into unreal with the rest of the level and, when scaled up by 2, MC was a decent bit bigger than the unreal character.
I'll try and get a screenshot later if I can.

And bobbysoon, unreal doesn't use clusters that i know of, it may with bsp portions but meshes are culled by visibility. When ever a mesh is completely out of view or if the view of it is completely blocked, it is not rendered.
I've seen options in the editor that look like portaling but i've never used them. nor have I seen any tutorials make reference to them.

And with the instancing thing, I'll keep that in mind, though I can't really see using it, it's always good to know, thanks.

[MMFSdjw]

This should clarify the scale thing.
the model scaled up by 2.
http://photos-111.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v295/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34464478_6230.jpg

[MMFSdjw]

Ok, finaly got it in Halo.
Ignore the skybox, textures, and ... well everything but the layout.
http://photos-111.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34473768_1952.jpg
New interior that I like
http://photos-111.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34473769_2291.jpg
http://photos-111.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34473770_2555.jpg

A fall from up here, depending on where you land can take you down to one bar of health.
So I would not recomend jumping.
http://photos-111.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34473771_2837.jpg

[Heathen]

D: I hope thats gonna get better

[MMFSdjw]

lol. Nope, that's as good as it gets. This is final.
And no, this statement does not contradict previous posts cause I never said that this was just a quick, rough build to get the layout finalized before moving on to the pretty making.

But seriously though, I'm attempting to build this for both halo and unreal, so the pretty making will take time as I try to plan how I can create this to be compatible with both.

In the first pic in my last post there are 3 rocks, a tall one to the left, short one in the water in the center and one with a visible hole(entrance to tunnel) just up from the short one. Those are all the same rock, just scaled & rotated instances.
Here is the high poly bump map I'm making for it in mudbox, still a wip.
http://photos-111.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v272/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34473893_2715.jpg

Right now I'm focusing on the layout cause it doesn't matter how pretty it is if the gameplay sucks.
I'm going to polish up the uvs so it's a little easier to see what's what then I'm going to start populating it so I can see how this plays.
Thankfully I can do this in unreal with bots but for halo I must resort to asking yall for help. So hopefully this one will be better than the last 7 or 8 times I asked for alpha testing help.

Anyway, I hope to have some working gameplay by around wednesday or something like that.

[Tweek]

you dont have to make a new skeleton/aniomations

you can just skin your character to the standard ut3 character skeletons (source files got released) and you only have to skin it to that skeleton, and import it, all the animations are all already done.

[MMFSdjw]

What? Did you post that in the right thread?

[Rook]

I've always loved maps where you had to come up out of water or walk along tight paths on cliffs above it (one of the reasons I <3'd that map with the two bases and the totally unbalanced game play and the river flowing down hill THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF). and that concept of yours looks really cool.

I find it kind of hard to visualise the layout from those images though. :/
The game isn't that unbalanced we play it on the gamenight alot... if your blue you get advantage of starting and looking down the top, while if you are red you can simply toss the flag down the hill.

[Apoc4lypse]

The layout looks nice, and the first concept image is really nice, I like your style of concept drawings, although maybe a little more detail, but otherwise very nice. Its very unique, should be a nice map, as for anything UT related, idk I don't mod or play it. XD

[PopeAK49]

i cant wait tell you get your final texturing done...looks promising from the pictures. Hopefully it will be fun

[dg]

Love what I'm looking at. What style are you using for the UT3 version? Dark and Necrosis-like or a peaceful version?

[MMFSdjw]

They well both be bright, sunshine beach looking setting.

ut has far too many dark maps already.

[dg]

That's good news for my eyes. Custom textures for both, I presume?

[MMFSdjw]

Most likely custom. however, textureing has never been my strong point, so I'm going to try and use what i can as much as possible. The trick is, that will be alot easier in ut than halo. So that might cause me some headaches.
But it should still be fun.

[MMFSdjw]

Here's a sketch just fleshing out in a bit more detail what i am thinking for the cliff walls.
This is ment to be the upper walkway in the top right of the last pic in post #26.
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v300/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34495377_6691.jpg

Those of you who play/mod unreal might notice a resemblance to some of the rock meshes from there. I really like them so I am deleberatly useing the same style.

[StankBacon]

nice, cant wait to see this.

[dg]

Seems like a mix between Antalus and Torlan rock meshes.

That's not a bad thing either. Looks fantastic!

[MMFSdjw]

Ah, Antalus. I had forgoten about that one.
I don't have 2k3 or 2k4 but I loved that one in the 2k3 demo.

Thanks for saying that, it might help give me some more ideas.

[dg]

So are you planning this as just a DM level or what are your plans to release for UT3?

[MMFSdjw]

Right now I'm making this strictly for DM.
All spawn points, weapons & stuff so far are set to "all games exept ctf"
Once I get DM working to a point that I'm happy with it I'll do all the item placemtn again for ctf.
At this point I am planning to make a ctf version for ut3.

[MMFSdjw]

Started modeling some of the rocks. Made in Hexagon2.
from here I'll put this into max to clean it up and prepare it to be part of the map and also into mudbox to make a bumpmap.
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v300/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34507474_3280.jpg

[§partan 8]

That looks good. But also looks high poly.

[dg]

A fine model.

And I'm sure optimizations will come into play, if they are even needed. Don't worry, I am quite confident that he knows what he is doing.

[Zeph]

That looks good. But also looks high poly.

portaling.

[MMFSdjw]

lol thanks yall.
And yes it is very high poly. What you see there, not counting the player model is 29940 polies. so that's about 59880 tris assuming my math is correct.
The lowest level is 532 polies and that's with 3 and 4 sided faces so I'm not sure of the tris count. either way it will be optimized alot before the final version.

And yes, I will be portaling the shiznit out of this.

[Hotrod]

So, that rock has as many polies as a map could have? Very nice though.

[Pooky]

The game isn't that unbalanced we play it on the gamenight alot... if your blue you get advantage of starting and looking down the top, while if you are red you can simply toss the flag down the hill.

And also you get all the vehicles...

[Rooster]

I like those rocks. They look VERY cartoony. more like a Dr. Zeus mod. lol

[Reaper Man]

I like those rocks. They look VERY cartoony. more like a Dr. Zeus mod. lol
Huh? You do mean Dr. Seuss amirite?

[n00b1n8R]

And also you get all the vehicles...
Ghosts spawn at the bottom, hogs at the top IIRC. We both know ghosts are scientifically proven to be better than hogs ;)

[FluffyDucky™]

Started modeling some of the rocks. Made in Hexagon2.
from here I'll put this into max to clean it up and prepare it to be part of the map and also into mudbox to make a bumpmap.
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v300/30/120/41113111/n41113111_34507474_3280.jpg

Omg... that looks soo cool! LOL, I love this whole concept your doing. Can't wait to see this. Please take your time and make it as good as you can, I'd really like to see more good maps coming out, and this one sure looks like one. :D

[Hotrod]

We both know ghosts are scientifically proven to be better than hogs ;)
Well, hogs are more fun to drive, and they can carry 3 people, so, hogs are better.:)

[Evil_Monkey]

Those rocks you created look very nice, keep going like that and the map will look awesome.

[Con]

They look like they're straight outta TF2. Nice job.

[Pooky]

Ghosts spawn at the bottom, hogs at the top IIRC. We both know ghosts are scientifically proven to be better than hogs ;)

Do they? I don't remember.

I thought bottom team also got the tanks and shit if you turned those on :S

Besides, ghosts are better for irritating splatter deaths and flag runs.

[MMFSdjw]

Thanks for the comments guys, however, I am a bit bummed right now.
I've been playing it with bots in unreal and...well... it sucks. :(
the exterior is just way too open and the interior is too small.
There is also a huge bottleneck in the interior and that's the only part that is even kinda fun.

so I'm going to try and redesign this.

However, I would really like to give it a try in halo first to see if it has the same problems but of course halo has no bots.

would it be possible to get a game night together in the next few days?
possibly thursday or wednesday night?

[Pooky]

I can try, might be too busy.

[Anton]

I could do it tomorrow, if you would like.

Anything to help out someone.

[MMFSdjw]

think yall would be able to play tomorrow night around 9pmCST?
Cst is -6 GMT.

[Andrew_b]

It's looking really good. GJ!