This is so Mean/Cruel/Gross

[I_Am_Error117]

I mean I belive that Humans can wear animal fur, but this is aweful. Thats not how you treat animals! I mean they should be dead before you skin them. Thats just horrible, thats tortures. Skining is fine but this, this i needs to be stopped!


Warning the video on this link is not for the faint of heart, personally i couldn't watch it. I closed the window beacuse what the people did was just too cruel for me to bear to see:

http://www.peta.org/feat/ChineseFurFarms/index.asp

[Tweek]

old stuff, internet generally doesnt care about this shit.

ye its bad, but i honestly dont care enough to do more that write this post.
there's more stuff to care about.

in fact, some kitty-pain is the one of the last things on the shit-to-fix list.
hippocricy AHOY!
shitty thread is shitty.

[nooBBooze]

Meh if i started caring about this shit, id be an ignorant fucktard when it comes to much worse problems in this world. thats why i dont care at all about anything. lol

[Lateksi]

That's really sad... :(

[Bastinka]

Hey, if they couldn't outrun asians that gives them what for.

BTW, agree with tweek. I don't have much sympathy for animals, it's not my job to stop it.

[I_Am_Error117]

I didnt mean we should stop it. The chinese gov should, but won't.

[Atty]

I hate these videos.

Animals :( :(

[Con]

Holy crap, that thing was still alive even after all it's skin was pulled off :(

[Tweek]

tbh, i want to have superpowers, and then skin some mean people alive. ftw.

[SnaFuBAR]

frickin' old.

[TVTyrant]

Its China...What did you expect? For them to give them basic rights? Come on! What part of C H I N A didn't you get from that? (I'm actually holding back on the China jokes here...)

[Heathen]

Pretty fucked up.

[Flyboy]

Pretty fucked up.
.

[Bodzilla]

Asians :/

[STLRamsFan]

That is flat out cruel. No animal should have to go through that type of pain. How would anyone feel if that racoon were the one that was skinning you alive.. =/

[Syuusuke]

What the fuck, this isn't old to me.

Goddamn wtf is going on there.

That's not the China I know and love...wait actually...I take that back =/

[SnaFuBAR]

waiting for mr. buckshot

[alby]

That's really sad, but, there isn't much we can do about it.
waiting for mr. buckshotSo he can write a post the size of China?

[Random]

That's really sad, but, there isn't much we can do about it.So he can write a post the size of China?

The Great Wall of text.

[Llama Juice]

If you thought that was mean or whatever... watch this one.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1282796533661048967

They show all sorts of animals being killed/tortured

[Hotrod]

I didn't watch the first video, nor the one that Llama Juice posted, since I can't stand watching animals being tortured/killed in those kind of ways. I don't get it, don't they know that animals can feel pain just as we do? And that doing that to an animal has the same effects to them as it would to a human? How could those people stand doing that to animals all day?

[Monopoly]

waiting for mr. buckshot

I think he's busy taking a 25 minute shit while playing with his PDA.

[Llama Juice]

I didn't watch the first video, nor the one that Llama Juice posted, since I can't stand watching animals being tortured/killed in those kind of ways. I don't get it, don't they know that animals can feel pain just as we do? And that doing that to an animal has the same effects to them as it would to a human? How could those people stand doing that to animals all day?

I'm not even going to go off on my typical pro vegetarian tangent.... but does anyone else see the irony here?

[TVTyrant]

Animal cruelty is just wrong. I'm not some huge animal PETA person or some shit like that, but they deserve some dignity in death. TBH, I'm a hunter, and in my opinion thats the only dignified way to kill an animal, for your own sustenance in a clean manner. The fur trade isn't that big of a deal, but the fact that fuckers go up and club baby seals is just messed up. Ima go club some baby seal clubbers babies now...

[Hotrod]

I'm not even going to go off on my typical pro vegetarian tangent.... but does anyone else see the irony here?
What's so ironic about my post? Isn't anybody allowed to love animals, and hate to see them in pain? Also, there's a difference in killing animals to eat, and to skin them alive for a coat.

[ICEE]

What's so ironic about my post? Isn't anybody allowed to love animals, and hate to see them in pain? Also, there's a difference in killing animals to eat, and to skin them alive for a coat.


This. Circle of life is one thing but this is blown out of fucking proportion. Humans are the only creatures who do such torturous things. Way to go humanity.

[Tweek]

I'm not even going to go off on my typical pro vegetarian tangent.... but does anyone else see the irony here?
don't know whats up dude, but you've been making some pretty dumbshit posts lately man. maybe you need some sugar.

[Llama Juice]

What's so ironic about my post? Isn't anybody allowed to love animals, and hate to see them in pain? Also, there's a difference in killing animals to eat, and to skin them alive for a coat.

The irony is that you're saying that you dislike seeing an animal killed for human use.

That's the irony.

[Hotrod]

The irony is that you're saying that you dislike seeing an animal killed for human use.

That's the irony.
Actually, I'm saying that I dislike seeing an animal killed in a horrible way, full of pain, and that the people doing it don't seem to give a shit that they're doing that. Didn't you notice when I said that there's a difference in between killing an animal for food, and killing them in a horrible way for a coat? That meant that I agree that killing animals to eat them is a good thing, since we need meat to live, but it's a bad thing to skin them alive to make a coat out of their fur.

[Llama Juice]

You're right. We need meat to live. I've been dead for over a year now.

If you think that they are killed humanely when they're slaughtered for food uses then you're living in a fantasy world.


If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian.

[jngrow]

The irony is that you're saying that you dislike seeing an animal killed for human use.

That's the irony.

Um, animals kill other animals for their own use, too.

OK, I know what you're saying about them being slaughtered inhumanely etc., but saying that humans should never use an animal as a resource is just ignorant. Not saying that you use this argument. I can understand becoming a vegetarian to boycott the inhumane treatment of animals though.

Skinned alive is pretty fucked up though.

[Llama Juice]

There's a difference between how humans mass slaughter animals for gain, and how other animals kill each other for survival.

Anyhow, I'd rather not continue this argument on the forums. If anyone wants to comment on my whole vegetarian ordeal just IM me. AIM: TheJuicyLlama

[Bodzilla]

You're right. We need meat to live. I've been dead for over a year now.

If you think that they are killed humanely when they're slaughtered for food uses then you're living in a fantasy world.
Dont start with me Hugo.

/house of a thousand corpse's

[Tweek]

You're right. We need meat to live. I've been dead for over a year now.

If you think that they are killed humanely when they're slaughtered for food uses then you're living in a fantasy world.

boo hoo hoo

[Llama Juice]

Grow up Tweek

[Bodzilla]

harden the fuck up llama.

seriously dude. When there used for food use's outside these countrys such as china, they are killed very, very quickly in a way that guarantee's the least amount of pain possible.

and for gods sake this link is from PETA of all things. Fucking PETA.

And you also happen to forget Llama about the millions of Animals a Year that Die from farm equipment used to harvest grain, and other food resources, you know the same resources you Claim to be superior and a guilt free way of gaining nutrition.

Untill you go out into the fields and pick your food by hand you have no right to question my food habits because BOTH lead to the death of animals, Only My way Makes use of the animals that are slain.

[Llama Juice]

If you think I'm getting disturbed by this at all then you're mistaken. I've kept a cool level head the entire time, and have just been pretty chill.

If you were referring to my comment on Tweek... then I have no idea how you made that connection, Tweek needs to grow up. He still thinks it's funny to be an idiot.

I didn't wanna argue this publicly because people will throw their uneducated opinions all over the place... but if you insist.

Yes, animals die when they run infront of farm machinery or when they decide to make their homes in the fields of some random plants (INCLUDING ONES I CONSUME!) That's really unavoidable in today's world... Yes, there will always be death and there will never be a "guitless grill" which is, what I'm assuming, is what you're referring to with this stuff.

I'm not trying to prevent the death of all animals. I'm not going to stab my friend when he hits a deer with his truck. I'm not going to harass my roommate for eating Slim Jims every day. I'm, just like everyone else, going to randomly throw out random lines on a forum when I find those lines funny. Similar to how Tweek thinks it's funny to say boo hoo hoo on a forum, I think it's funny to point out obvious ironys/contradictions with other people's posts.

"Well if you can't save EVERY animal, why are you a vegetarian? Isn't that the ULITMATE GOAL of being a vegetarian?" (Yes, that's the vibe I always get from you in these arguements). The thing is, those little animals that get killed becuase of the machinery aren't affecting the earth at all, they aren't putting that much of an impact on ANYTHING why? Because they're rodents, they're pests. If there's a bat flying around my house (they did sometimes at my old house) I'd kill em and get rid of em rather than trying to catch em and let em go.

Why? Because it doesn't really matter.

There's a HUGE difference between that and the impact that farms have on the earth.

If you think the animals are all killed very quickly and don't undergo intense suffering in those slaughterhouses then you're just turning a blind eye to it. There's a reason why slaughterhouses have the HIGHEST turnover rate of any profession. Why? Because people don't like to see animals being tortured/killed. How do you get a pig out of a pen when the pig knows it's going to die? You beat the living hell out of it until it goes with you.

If you honestly belive in your mind that happy cows go in one side of the building and come out happymeals without intense suffering then you've chosen to be ignorant to it. You're happy in your fantasy world and you don't wanna face reality, it's all good. Just realize that you are in your fantasy world and stop trying to tell people who know what's going on that they're wrong.

[Anton]

If you think I'm getting disturbed by this at all then you're mistaken. I've kept a cool level head the entire time, and have just been pretty chill.

If you were referring to my comment on Tweek... then I have no idea how you made that connection, Tweek needs to grow up. He still thinks it's funny to be an idiot.

I didn't wanna argue this publicly because people will throw their uneducated opinions all over the place... but if you insist.

Yes, animals die when they run infront of farm machinery or when they decide to make their homes in the fields of some random plants (INCLUDING ONES I CONSUME!) That's really unavoidable in today's world... Yes, there will always be death and there will never be a "guitless grill" which is, what I'm assuming, is what you're referring to with this stuff.

I'm not trying to prevent the death of all animals. I'm not going to stab my friend when he hits a deer with his truck. I'm not going to harass my roommate for eating Slim Jims every day. I'm, just like everyone else, going to randomly throw out random lines on a forum when I find those lines funny. Similar to how Tweek thinks it's funny to say boo hoo hoo on a forum, I think it's funny to point out obvious ironys/contradictions with other people's posts.

"Well if you can't save EVERY animal, why are you a vegetarian? Isn't that the ULITMATE GOAL of being a vegetarian?" (Yes, that's the vibe I always get from you in these arguements). The thing is, those little animals that get killed becuase of the machinery aren't affecting the earth at all, they aren't putting that much of an impact on ANYTHING why? Because they're rodents, they're pests. If there's a bat flying around my house (they did sometimes at my old house) I'd kill em and get rid of em rather than trying to catch em and let em go.

Why? Because it doesn't really matter.

There's a HUGE difference between that and the impact that farms have on the earth.

If you think the animals are all killed very quickly and don't undergo intense suffering in those slaughterhouses then you're just turning a blind eye to it. There's a reason why slaughterhouses have the HIGHEST turnover rate of any profession. Why? Because people don't like to see animals being tortured/killed. How do you get a pig out of a pen when the pig knows it's going to die? You beat the living hell out of it until it goes with you.

If you honestly belive in your mind that happy cows go in one side of the building and come out happymeals without intense suffering then you've chosen to be ignorant to it. You're happy in your fantasy world and you don't wanna face reality, it's all good. Just realize that you are in your fantasy world and stop trying to tell people who know what's going on that they're wrong.


Actually, my step dad worked at a slaughterhouse before we moved here. The death's were instantaneous. If they didn't die for some freak reason, which was barely ever, then the second blow was made immediately.

The pig doesn't know it's going to the slaughterhouse either, I'm pretty damn sure. We used to take them out by just walking behind them...

You tried to say pests were worthless...Well without rats/etc the food chain would be upset, causing everything to suffer in some way. You take away mice/rats and see what happens to the meat eating bird population.

I'm not trying to go against you llama, it's just that this topic is touchy for everyone. It gets under all of our skins. Sorry if I sound like a total douche though.

Love you man.

[Bodzilla]

If you think I'm getting disturbed by this at all then you're mistaken. I've kept a cool level head the entire time, and have just been pretty chill.

If you were referring to my comment on Tweek... then I have no idea how you made that connection, Tweek needs to grow up. He still thinks it's funny to be an idiot.

I didn't wanna argue this publicly because people will throw their uneducated opinions all over the place... but if you insist.

Yes, animals die when they run infront of farm machinery or when they decide to make their homes in the fields of some random plants (INCLUDING ONES I CONSUME!) That's really unavoidable in today's world... Yes, there will always be death and there will never be a "guitless grill" which is, what I'm assuming, is what you're referring to with this stuff.

I'm not trying to prevent the death of all animals. I'm not going to stab my friend when he hits a deer with his truck. I'm not going to harass my roommate for eating Slim Jims every day. I'm, just like everyone else, going to randomly throw out random lines on a forum when I find those lines funny. Similar to how Tweek thinks it's funny to say boo hoo hoo on a forum, I think it's funny to point out obvious ironys/contradictions with other people's posts.

"Well if you can't save EVERY animal, why are you a vegetarian? Isn't that the ULITMATE GOAL of being a vegetarian?" (Yes, that's the vibe I always get from you in these arguements). The thing is, those little animals that get killed becuase of the machinery aren't affecting the earth at all, they aren't putting that much of an impact on ANYTHING why? Because they're rodents, they're pests. If there's a bat flying around my house (they did sometimes at my old house) I'd kill em and get rid of em rather than trying to catch em and let em go.

Why? Because it doesn't really matter.

There's a HUGE difference between that and the impact that farms have on the earth.

If you think the animals are all killed very quickly and don't undergo intense suffering in those slaughterhouses then you're just turning a blind eye to it. There's a reason why slaughterhouses have the HIGHEST turnover rate of any profession. Why? Because people don't like to see animals being tortured/killed. How do you get a pig out of a pen when the pig knows it's going to die? You beat the living hell out of it until it goes with you.

If you honestly belive in your mind that happy cows go in one side of the building and come out happymeals without intense suffering then you've chosen to be ignorant to it. You're happy in your fantasy world and you don't wanna face reality, it's all good. Just realize that you are in your fantasy world and stop trying to tell people who know what's going on that they're wrong.
What experience do you have with Slaughter house's?

My dad worked in one for over 10 years, and my brother also worked in one for over a year inbetween uni cmotments.
This "Beating theliving hell out of it" that you talk of Doesnt exist because if the company's are caught doing these practices they loose there fucking license.

Like i've said before, Maccas has probably the strictest ruling on animals out of ANY fast food chain and the others arnt far behind. it's very very quick, and it's pretty well painless.

i know this because i've been to the slaughterhouse's many many times.

[Hotrod]

My dad also used to work at a slaughter house for a while, and he explained to me how they did it. He lined up the pigs, side by side, then shot them all once. Sure, the other ones might have gotten scared because of the gunshots, but they don't get beaten to death.

Then again, it could be different depending on which country you are in, and what area of that country.

[Llama Juice]

I don't have any experience with them. I just assumed that they were treated poorly before being killed because of what I've seen of em in videos and from the type of people that (I expected) would work there.

I grew up around farms, and I know the type of people that work on farms, I assumed the people working in slaughter houses wouldnt be too different.

@ T1xAnton

I didn't mean to imply that I think pests are worthless. I was saying that those deaths that are unavoidable are insignificant.

[SnaFuBAR]

I don't have any experience with them. I just assumed that they were treated poorly before being killed because of what I've seen of em in videos and from the type of people that (I expected) would work there.

protip: stop watching PETA propaganda videos :downs:

I didn't mean to imply that I think pests are worthless. I was saying that those deaths that are unavoidable are insignificant.

Gosh I care so much about animal pain and suffering but I think that "lowly" animals getting mauled while my wheat is harvested are not valuable in any way shape or form! you know, INSIGNIFICANT! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insignificant) (aka worthless (http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/insignificant)) :downs:


failed argument is failed.

[Llama Juice]

^That's why I didn't want to bother writing stuff and posting it publicly like this.

Snaf you know you're just twisting my words around to try to get an argument in. Try harder next time, or bring something valid to the table.

[SnaFuBAR]

You made wild accusations about animal treatment at meat processing plants because of what you've seen in PETA videos. You always go on about how you're vegetarian because of how animals are treated, yet when we bring up that animals are needlessly killed during grain harvests, you say the deaths are insignificant pests.

YOU said it. YOU ASSUMED though you DON'T HAVE EXPERIENCE that animals are treated POORLY because of VIDEOS YOU WATCH. Have you watched a real documentary or is it all PETA videos?

I'm only pointing out how asinine your own post is.

You say you're not going off on your typical vegetarian tangent, yet you do, and you introduce it refuting a post that you incorrectly label "ironic". No, nobody saw it as "ironic" because they have better reading comprehension.

Animals are rendered unconscious and then their main arteries are cut. Animal pens are focused so that each animal doesn't see what's going on in front of it, so they're far less frightened. You make it seem as though slaughterhouse animals are beat to death with clubs by groups of men huddling over the animal. By law the animals are required to be rendered unconscious with one application of the method employed. FYI, cutting the arteries in the neck is the most painless way to kill the animal, aside from shooting it in the head.

[Random]

Fur is not delicious.

[Llama Juice]

You made wild accusations about animal treatment at meat processing plants because of what you've seen in PETA videos. You always go on about how you're vegetarian because of how animals are treated, yet when we bring up that animals are needlessly killed during grain harvests, you say the deaths are insignificant pests.

YOU said it. YOU ASSUMED though you DON'T HAVE EXPERIENCE that animals are treated POORLY because of VIDEOS YOU WATCH. Have you watched a real documentary or is it all PETA videos?

I'm only pointing out how asinine your own post is.

You say you're not going off on your typical vegetarian tangent, yet you do, and you introduce it refuting a post that you incorrectly label "ironic". No, nobody saw it as "ironic" because they have better reading comprehension.

Animals are rendered unconscious and then their main arteries are cut. Animal pens are focused so that each animal doesn't see what's going on in front of it, so they're far less frightened. You make it seem as though slaughterhouse animals are beat to death with clubs by groups of men huddling over the animal. By law the animals are required to be rendered unconscious with one application of the method employed. FYI, cutting the arteries in the neck is the most painless way to kill the animal, aside from shooting it in the head.

First off, I'm seriously impressed. I don't think I've ever seen you actually formulate any sort of argument, let alone intelligent post. So.. bravo sir. + rep and stuff.

Anyhow...

Yea, I admitted that I assumed stuff. It's not like they were just blind guesses or anything though. They were based on other situations (like that crazy meat recall's cause back in February). I did admit I assumed though, meaning I admitted that I'm not as informed as I thought I was. Find me a "real" documentary on slaughterhouses. One that isn't funded by PETA or something.

Fact is, no matter what you watch it'll be bias one way or another. All of PETA's videos of animals being abused were taken with hidden cameras... stuff that if a film crew came though the employees wouldn't do anyway. "Documentary guys are coming through, be on your best behavior." type stuff going on.

Also, my main reason for being a vegetarian is for the health benefits... but nobody cares about their body enough these days to care about that.

[SnaFuBAR]

First off, I'm seriously impressed. I don't think I've ever seen you actually formulate any sort of argument, let alone intelligent post. So.. bravo sir. + rep and stuff.

Anyhow...

Yea, I admitted that I assumed stuff. It's not like they were just blind guesses or anything though. They were based on other situations (like that crazy meat recall's cause back in February). I did admit I assumed though, meaning I admitted that I'm not as informed as I thought I was. Find me a "real" documentary on slaughterhouses. One that isn't funded by PETA or something.

Fact is, no matter what you watch it'll be bias one way or another. All of PETA's videos of animals being abused were taken with hidden cameras... stuff that if a film crew came though the employees wouldn't do anyway. "Documentary guys are coming through, be on your best behavior." type stuff going on.

Also, my main reason for being a vegetarian is for the health benefits... but nobody cares about their body enough these days to care about that.

You should review my posts more often then. For example, the gun thread. :). I doubt you'll find a documentary on slaughterhouses other than those produced by activist groups such as PETA or the Humane Society. Frankly, nobody else cares. Documentaries aren't made for what's going right in any industry, honestly. Everyone wants to show some scandal or something shocking. Nicey nice doesn't get viewers.

I can understand the health benefits attitude, but I don't see the advantage of a balanced vegetarian diet over a balanced diet that includes all the food groups in proportion (which I actually do, since I care about my body and my physical appearance).

As for things such as meat recalls, those are going to be a natural side effect of keeping large herds of animals. If one gets sick, a communicable disease can and often does spread extremely rapidly. Same thing with aquariums and bird cages. Parasites, bacterial and viral infections, etc, all spread VERY fast. I myself have been keeping aquarium fish, other pets and such for nearly 20 years, and even on a small scale keeping health of animals in check can be a daunting task.

From what I've seen of meat recalls and the number of illnesses contracted, I'd say that despite the decrepit looking situation, they've historically done well. The shock and awe factor produced by sensationalist media really gets to the psych of communities and often are so exaggerated or fear-mongering that people fail to investigate scenarios themselves.

[Llama Juice]

Are you familiar with what happened that caused this meat recall?

Basically.. There was a cow that was too sick to stand, so they just kept blasting it with a high powered hose/using a forklift to move it... until it got up and walked over to wherever the farmer/slaughterhouseguy wanted it to go. They then killed the cow and threw the meat into the hopper.

source: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-beef18feb18,1,3896598,full.story

The recall applies to beef slaughtered at the Hallmark/Westland Meat Packing Co. since Feb. 1, 2006. The company has produced no meat since Feb. 4 of this year, when operations were suspended.

The action came nearly three weeks after the Humane Society of the United States released a video showing workers at the plant using forklifts and water hoses, among other methods, to rouse cattle too weak to walk. In addition to issues of animal cruelty, the video raised questions about whether so-called downer cattle were entering the food chain in violation of federal regulations.

Although the Humane Society said at least four non-ambulatory cattle had been slaughtered for food, the USDA had repeatedly said it had no such evidence. On Sunday, federal officials said for the first time that they had evidence such cattle from Hallmark had been processed for food.

Downer cattle are not supposed to be used as meat unless a veterinarian determines that the animal stumbled or fell because of injury -- a broken leg, for instance -- that would not affect the safety of their meat. Cattle weakened by disease are not supposed to enter the food supply, although their risk of harming humans is still fairly low. There is, however, a slightly higher possibility that such cattle are suffering from bovine spongiform encephalopathy, better known as mad cow disease.

And you hit the nail on the head with the documentary thing. Of course I haven't seen one from "your side". It wouldn't get any viewers and it would only say "As you can see here, they're following the rules very closely." Nobody would care.

[SnaFuBAR]

Yes, I am aware of this one instance, but again, the sensationalist media and activists make this seem as though it is a standard practice rather than irresponsible processors.

I would still say that the propagandists are, at best, alarmists.

[Heathen]

The way I see it...we shouldn't worry about it.

We ALL like shoes, but we aren't worried that they're made by highly skilled, naked, foreign babies. I bet now that its brought to your attention, however, you will say that you care.

[Bodzilla]

Yes, I am aware of this one instance, but again, the sensationalist media and activists make this seem as though it is a standard practice rather than irresponsible processors.

I would still say that the propagandists are, at best, alarmists.
.

to put it another way Llama i'll use a different example.
5 kids are caught down town drinking underage.
Media catches wind of the story and blows it massively out of proportion. Then all of a sudden every kid in the country is seen and labeled as a binge drinker, despite 99% of them playing by the rules.

[Llama Juice]

The way I see it...we shouldn't worry about it.

We ALL like shoes, but we aren't worried that they're made by highly skilled, naked, foreign babies. I bet now that its brought to your attention, however, you will say that you care.

You mean like how everyone reacted to this thread originally?

How can you care about something you don't know anything about? The way you're saying it is that I would care about it because it's a terrible situation, but I shouldn't because I didn't know about it before? That's the vibe I got from you there and... that's just silly.

That's like telling a woman who's 4 months pregnant who just found out that she is preggo that "Oh now that you KNOW you're pregnant you care about the baby?"

@Snaf
My assumptions were based on that article, how I know my friend treated his animals on the farm he grew up on, and how a lot of the other people I know who live on farms act. (Then I furthered that assumption by assuming that it was the same type of people in the slaughter houses).

Also, before that huge mad cow disease scare way back when it wasn't illegal to do exactly what they did in that article.

@Bod

The difference there is that I'm familiar with being a child. I was a kid once so I have that knowledge... I've never been to a slaughter house... it's easier to make people believe you when it's something that they don't know much about beforehand.

I know it was just an example, and I understand what you meant by it.. but.. yea. The media will blow everything out of proportion, that's how they make money. just... like I said. I took what I saw in the media, and paired it with knowledge that I already had based on first hand experience with farmers... and it just kinda matched.

[Heathen]

The way I see it...out of sight, out of mind. Unless their cutting up MY critters...doing it in my way...or trying to make a Heathen coat....I dont mind. If it matters that much, they could just stab them in the neck and then skin them. Thats really what the big deal is right? If they were DEAD it would be fine.

[Llama Juice]

I have a problem with that mentality. It's like saying "Ignorance is bliss." but you're subjecting yourself to the ignorance willingly.

Is it sad that your post made me think of President Bush?

[Heathen]

Haha, Yes it is. But he is stupid, not ignorant.

Life isn't supposed to be spent worrying about things that have nothing to do with you. Now if your job was something to do with this I'd understand. Take Bush. He doesen't bother me because he isn't in my room, on my TV, or in my internets. I could care less about disasters or riots. I could care less about school shootouts and wars. I could care less about Cancer and AIDS. If it doesen't effect me its not my problem.

[Llama Juice]

Now you're starting to sound like a person who would drive a hummer.

[Roostervier]

Heathen, I advise you to shut up before you make yourself look even more foolish.

[Tweek]

i agree with him though. more or less.

[Corndogman]

I have no problem with someone killing an animal to get its meat/fur, but not when the animal is still alive. kill the animal quick and painless so that it feels no pain or suffering when its being harvested. The animal is going to be killed anyways, and i do love those cheeseburgers, but why just throw the fur away, use it for something. so in short, as long as the animal is dead and feels no pain I don't mind, but beating and torturing the animal until it dies is fucked up. Places like that need to be shut down for good.

[legionaire45]

http://www.knitemare.org/cats/hatethread.jpg
I also have no problem with using animal based products and such considering incidents like the one that the PETA thing covered are rare. I never wear furs anyway since I don't like the feel of it and because synthetic materials are cheaper and I have no qualms with eating meat. Things like what happened in that video suck though, whether the thing in question was a human or an animal it still is torture. They could have at least killed it first - hell, that would have made cutting the fur easier because the animal isn't struggling for all it's worth to get free. This videos is not going to stop me from consuming animal products but from now on whenever I see a fur I'm sure that image of the thing still alive will be burned into my eyes.

[Heathen]

Yeah, its sick. Yeah, my views are lack luster and sad. Yeah, this shouldn't be allowed to happen. Who's gonna fix it? You? Then problem solved.

Thing is, its someones job already...let them handle it.

[Mass]

That's propaganda, bullshit, no more worth my attention than Faux News ragging on about an "outrageous display of San Francisco values."

There's no unavoidable or logical reason to cease meat consumption. Furthermore, all the various other uses we have for livestock are generally worthwhile practices. People who hold morality over survival are being ridiculous. People who hold morality over luxury are impractical thinkers. Survival is the necessary basis upon which a morality can be built, and the use of luxury and entertainment as much define a society as its ethical ideals. It is equally impractical thinking, however, to ignore the numerous reasons regarding both public health and economic sustainability to not only decrease meat consumption, but engage in more "compassionate" farming methods.

The amount of grain it takes to create any given amount of meat means that we loose total feeding capacity by producing it. Although the nature of the product as something traditional, sustainable, and enjoyable render that this argument at most could convince of the need for a small decline in meat-eating. The current method of cattle farming with vast numbers and semi-toxic drug cocktails is counterproductive for simple human interest, the modern diet can also be far too carnivorous for good health, and over- promotion of species can destroy ecosystems. Reform is undoubtedly necessary.

Vegetarianism and veganism just happen to be extremely poor solutions with no grounding in reality.

And at the end of it all, we're the top. This is how we as fauna hunt and self-sustain. It's natural selection, and it's subject to reason before morals.

[cheezdue]

This stuff is old but its very awful to just let some stuff like this to happen. Animals dont need to die this way or treated in any unhuman way just to get their skins off.

[Tweek]

in holland we've got fish-farms, where they yield 1 kilo of fish for 1 kilo of feed.

you're doing it wrong america.. AS ALWAYS.

[Heathen]

Also...animals being treated unhumanly? I think you mean inhumane. And dont get me wrong...I dont like it. I just dont care.

[Apoc4lypse]

thats why i dont care at all about anything. lol

congratulation's, you just became ignorant

:XD:

Like tweek said though with the first post... its not like we can do anything... unless you were hoping for us to open up another donation, to donate money towards ending cruelty to animals. I bet jcap would just keep the money though lolz.

E:
in holland we've got fish-farms, where they yield 1 kilo of fish for 1 kilo of feed.

you're doing it wrong america.. AS ALWAYS.

Your from holland?

I finally understand.

E2:
Animals dont need to die this way or treated in any unhuman way just to get their skins off.
Thats why we should shoot them in the face first right?

E3: lol... e3 /crappy humor... wow this threads 7 pages long XD. tldr w/e...

E4, because I can:
That is flat out cruel. No animal should have to go through that type of pain. How would anyone feel if that racoon were the one that was skinning you alive.. =/

I'd feel violated XD

but yeah, I actually watched the video now, tbh I was putting off watching it because I knew it was going to make me sad, so good job... but yeah, I hope that dude gets bitten and gets rabis, then dies, I actually thought I heard some of them laughing XD. People can be fucked up, at least kill them first...

[Llama Juice]

@Mass

Are you saying that eating meat is not only a luxury, but crucial to survival?

I agree with almost everything else you said, just that threw me for a loop there....

Not only does the idea of eating another living creature disgust me, not eating it isn't killing me. I feel AMAZING and when I went into the doctors office a while back he was surprised at how healthy I am compared to the last time he saw me. (I saw him after being vegetarian for a year)

Granted, any thought out diet will make you become more healthy, but this is what works for me... and it keeps me away from any of that stuff out there that's just terrible for you. (McDonalds and such... gives me a good excuse why not to go there if I'm with a group)

[ICEE]

I think some of you are making a misconception that stopping animal cruelty would stop us from eating them. I don't think its cruel to kill an animal painlessly if we're going to eat it, I think it IS cruel to rip its skin off while its still breathing just to make a coat out of its fur. Also, @ mass: It is very possible to get all the nutrients we would typically get from meat without actually eating the meat. Knowing this, I still would never be a vegetarian because I just love to eat meat.


Haha, Yes it is. But he is stupid, not ignorant.

Life isn't supposed to be spent worrying about things that have nothing to do with you. Now if your job was something to do with this I'd understand. Take Bush. He doesen't bother me because he isn't in my room, on my TV, or in my internets. I could care less about disasters or riots. I could care less about school shootouts and wars. I could care less about Cancer and AIDS. If it doesen't effect me its not my problem.

I see someone watched a spiritualist infomercial. While I completely agree with "Life isn't supposed to be spent worrying about things that have nothing to do with you" I think your doing it wrong. When I think about this comment, I think religion, afterlife, etc. I don't think people should sit around worrying about that. It won't effect you until you reach it anyways. But, to ignore the problems you mentioned is just ignorant immaturity.


I could care less about school shootouts and wars.
If you don't pay attention to the world around you, your going to make the exact same mistakes that everyone else does.


if it doesen't effect me its not my problem.

Now this quote just leads me to think your putting on an image, trying to be the tough guy. juvenile. Sometimes, things that don't effect you now are going to effect you later, and that is just life.


Take Bush. He doesen't bother me because he isn't in my room, on my TV, or in my internets.

Oh come on. He is the president. He could direly effect your life at any given moment if he wanted to, and he has effected your life in more ways than you know. To not care who is the leader of your country is just idiocy. Really, think about your "policies" a bit. This attitude of yours makes you sound like a spoiled shit.

[Tweek]

blah

all i saw was BOOHOOHOHOHOHOH CRAI CRAI CRAI

[paladin]

I dont agree with animal cruelty, but FUCK PETA. There are better ways to spread knowledge and stop animal cruelty.

[Bodzilla]

i just think it's ironic that a group that has "ethical" in there name can do such morally and legally questionable activities in order to brainwash other people.

[Heathen]

Now old on Clad, I didn't say something should be done. I didn't say that I think its right. Just because I choose to ignore the rest of the worlds problems doesn't mean I am immature. This isn't a tough guy act. I dont wear fur and I dont like animals. I was just saying that I myself do not care about animals and their fur problems. Now I respect you in many ways, and I agree on alot that you say in this matter. Someone should do something...but I wont be on the front of that tank with my sword held high. I figure...let it be the "animal nut's" problem....and thats where you guys come in.

[LinkandKvel]

I could care less about disasters or riots. I could care less about school shootouts and wars. I could care less about Cancer and AIDS. If it doesen't effect me its not my problem.Wow what a dumbass statement, not you, but what you said. What if you were caught in the middle of a riot, school shootout, or drafted to the war?

I could care less about Cancer and AIDS. If it doesen't effect me its not my problem.
oh and my favorite part, cancer and AIDS. Yeah if you or your future offspring happen to get cancer or catch AIDS I bet you would have wished they found that damn cure, then you know what, your going to be begging people to help you. How ironic is it that it didn't concern you till it affected you yourself. A little selfish don't you think?

EDIT: Okay there's obviously too much irony in this thread. At least almost everyone that posted has said "ironic".

[Rentafence]

Wow what a dumbass statement, not you, but what you said. What if you were caught in the middle of a riot, school shootout, or drafted to the war?

oh and my favorite part, cancer and AIDS. Yeah if you or your future offspring happen to get cancer or catch AIDS I bet you would have wished they found that damn cure, then you know what, your going to be begging people to help you. How ironic is it that it didn't concern you till it affected you yourself. A little selfish don't you think?

Heathen clearly said If It doesn't affect me, it's not my problem. Your scenarios affect him, therefore he would care. What's your point?

[LinkandKvel]

How ironic is it that it didn't concern you till it affected you yourself. A little selfish don't you think?To me I'm hearing "I shouldn't help the people that's affected by these causes until It happens to me, then I want them to help me and I'll help them."

[Rentafence]

How ironic is it that it didn't concern you till it affected you yourself. A little selfish don't you think?

No it's not selfish, it's logical. I'm not going to waste my time worrying about something that doesn't affect me, unless I'm aware it's going to affect me in the future, or it does affect me now.

[Gwunty]

I saw this along long time ago...I didnt sleep for 2 weeks 0_o

[Heathen]

Damn rentafence...you beat me to it.
It'd be like me worrying about my neighbors marriage, or who is the mayor in some destitute city in Alaska. Or even...on a more negative note....an elderly couple that got murdered in Mexico. Issues that have nothing to do with me dont get my attention. I dont want to be called ignorant or spoiled. I am a realistic thinker and know that some of you that act like you care, really couldn't care less.

I will level with you...if they skinned MY animal, it was happening in MY house, or I was in charge of stopping crimes like this, I'd be in the same boat as you guys.

[Mass]

@Mass

Are you saying that eating meat is not only a luxury, but crucial to survival?

I agree with almost everything else you said, just that threw me for a loop there....

Not only does the idea of eating another living creature disgust me, not eating it isn't killing me. I feel AMAZING and when I went into the doctors office a while back he was surprised at how healthy I am compared to the last time he saw me. (I saw him after being vegetarian for a year)

Granted, any thought out diet will make you become more healthy, but this is what works for me... and it keeps me away from any of that stuff out there that's just terrible for you. (McDonalds and such... gives me a good excuse why not to go there if I'm with a group)
The protein which we get from meat, (and can now get from pills, granted) is chiefly responsible for our steady brain growth and development into full Homo-Sapiens. It's a tradition older than us as a species. The infrastructure of our society is based on continuing meat consumption. We've built a luxury into a necessity, as would be expected behavior from the richest nation. That's how it can be both at the same time.

Vegetarianism is healthier in large part because of the way we produce and serve our meat. There's nothing unhealthy about it as food: the dose makes the poison, And we super-sized the dose.

And speaking of luxuries, don't forget morality is the greatest of them all.

[ICEE]

No it's not selfish, it's logical. I'm not going to waste my time worrying about something that doesn't affect me, unless I'm aware it's going to affect me in the future, or it does affect me now.


Yeah? No one is ever aware that something is going to effect them in the future at first, and by the time they are they're to afraid or to weak to put a stop to it. That is human nature. Human nature is not logical, it is not wise. It is as self centered and idiotic as your post right here. The key to overcoming it is being aware of it, and forming your thoughts and actions around that to put yourself ahead of the rest of the animals. You clearly do not grip that concept.

[Rentafence]

Yeah? No one is ever aware that something is going to effect them in the future at first, and by the time they are they're to afraid or to weak to put a stop to it. That is human nature. Human nature is not logical, it is not wise. It is as self centered and idiotic as your post right here. The key to overcoming it is being aware of it, and forming your thoughts and actions around that to put yourself ahead of the rest of the animals. You clearly do not grip that concept.

Are you honestly trying to say I'm wrong for following my natural human mindset? How ignorant is it to say that? What the hell does that make you, better than human? Get the fuck out.

[Heathen]

WAIT WAIT. No one is ignorant here...we all have different views. Its not ignorant to care about animals, nor is it ignorant to mind your business.

[Rentafence]

No, he is ignorant. He said "That is human nature. Human nature is not logical, it is not wise. It is as self centered and idiotic as your post right here." Obviously he thinks that because human nature doesn't follow his own morals, it's wrong.

[ICEE]

No, he is ignorant. He said "That is human nature. Human nature is not logical, it is not wise. It is as self centered and idiotic as your post right here." Obviously he thinks that because human nature doesn't follow his own morals, it's wrong.


I think human nature is extremely flawed. If you follow it completely, yes, You are an idiot.

I don't care what you think of me, but I sure managed to get you worked up didnt I?

[Mass]

Are you honestly trying to say I'm wrong for following my natural human mindset? How ignorant is it to say that?
What the hell does that make you, better than human? Get the fuck out.
That is the role of civilization. You know, there's this book you might enjoy (http://www.amazon.com/Flies-Penguin-Great-Books-Century/dp/0140283331/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216010502&sr=8-1).

[Rentafence]

I don't care what you think of me, but I sure managed to get you worked up didnt I?

I have nothing against you. You're entitled to your own opinions.

[Heathen]

Oh dear....ok, well here's my bottom line.

Its wrong.
Its fucked up.
SOMEONE should do something.
I'm going watch TV.

[ICEE]

No, he is ignorant.




Are you honestly trying to say I'm wrong for following my natural human mindset? How ignorant is it to say that? What the hell does that make you, better than human? Get the fuck out.



I have nothing against you. You're entitled to your own opinions.


:confused2:

[Rentafence]

Fuck. I contradicted myself. You win this time.

And let the -rep commence.

[p0lar_bear]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/e/e1/Facepalmuber.jpg

That is all.

e: I lied. This discussion has been teetering between pointless, ignorant banter and thought-out arguing. Can we try to keep it from being a "no u" fight before I add pro/anti-vegetarian/carnivore discussions to my list of things to ban? Thx.

[Heathen]

Ha. Epic.

[Llama Juice]

The protein which we get from meat, (and can now get from pills, granted) is chiefly responsible for our steady brain growth and development into full Homo-Sapiens. It's a tradition older than us as a species. The infrastructure of our society is based on continuing meat consumption. We've built a luxury into a necessity, as would be expected behavior from the richest nation. That's how it can be both at the same time.

Not only are there many traditions that aren't right (slavery comes to mind), but the whole "Vegetarians fail at protein" thing is a myth. You can get protein from all sorts of other places. TVP for example in itself is 50% protein, high in fiber, and is hella cheap. TVP (textured vegetable protein) is just... some amazing stuff. Then you get into Tofu and Tempeh, and Seitan and you end up with all sorts of awesome ways to get around that whole "protein deficiency" thing.

You also forget about those whole cultures that are just vegetarians.... People like Gandhi come to mind... he was a pretty swell guy (or so I assume, I never got to meet him.) Meat isn't ESSENTIAL or even nearly neccesary at all for protein.

9BZlrCq7uho

That guy lists off pleanty of other protein sources for vegetarians/vegans.

YvEH7W_w1NA

^Vegan body builder

I know there's been a few vegan/vegetarian olympic gold medalists too... Carl Lewis comes to mind but I can't think of any others at the moment...

Point is? Just like any other diet, if you're smart about it you'll be healthy. It's easier to be lazy about your food choices and most people unknowingly take that route thinking "Oh I eat meat I'm healthy compared to that silly vegetarian who actually plans out his meals..." (not directed at anyone, just.. that's the general feeling I get from... everyone who thinks a vegetarian diet is unhealthy)

[Heathen]

Also, from what my diet taught me, vegetarians are known for having the best tasting semen. Think Im joking? Google.

[SnaFuBAR]

What's with you and cum, dude? Will you stfu about it already?

[Mass]

Our society is based on omnivorous eating habits. Any attempt at anything beyond the most gradual reform, whether legislative or popular, would be disastrous.

I don't think vegetarianism is unhealthy, I just don't think it's healthier.

It also doesn't help that the ads some vegan society had put up basically say that if you eat meat you're barbaric, reactionary, behind the times, stuck in the past, and an unethical dolt. Which is stupid, because my diet is no less "compassionate."

[Apoc4lypse]

Also, from what my diet taught me, vegetarians are known for having the best tasting semen. Think Im joking? Google.

probably has less protein in it for obvious reasons.... XD

makes sense chemically...

E: I'm sorry I think I was a little late with that lol.
E2:
[BIG PICTURE] That is all.
I think you broke my computer with that. Aside from that I'd +rep you if I could for making the greatest post of all time... :awesome:

My thoughts on this... which is more healthy... the answer is none tbh... I guess I could see the benefits from being a vegitarian I cant even spell that word, thats how often I use it... but at the same time its never healthy to eat obnoxious quantities of one substance, thats not to say being a vegitariean limits you to one thing, it simply narrows what your aloud to eat.

On the other hand its sort of disgusting if you eat meat 24/7... you need to vary your diet, with pizza of course :)

I stick to the main food groups... meat (includes fish & eggs), leaves, bread, and cheese. (yes I made that up...)

Its the MLBC diet, and I just invented it. Now stop arguing over vegetarianism stuffz. Tbh... I think the vegetarians are missing out in the long run though, on the other hand the die-hard meat-eaters are also missing out. Broaden your horizons people...

incase you didn't notice, I'm being extremely pacifistic (oh shit thats a real word...) to avoid pointless confrontation.

[Bodzilla]

Meat just tastes fucking awesome.

a vegetarian lasagna, no matte how you spice it up, will never be a proper lasagna.

[Heathen]

What's with you and cum, dude? Will you stfu about it already?
haha, just waiting for that kind of response :lol:

[Hotrod]

Meat just tastes fucking awesome.

a vegetarian lasagna, no matte how you spice it up, will never be a proper lasagna.
I agree, you can't have a dish that normally requires meat, without meat. A veggie burger just isn't a hamburger, no matter if it tastes the same.

[Llama Juice]

Meat just tastes fucking awesome.

a vegetarian lasagna, no matte how you spice it up, will never be a proper lasagna.

Have you tried any? I've had some pretty amazing vegetarian lasagna. Just because it's not the same taste you know and love doesn't mean it's a bad taste.


I agree, you can't have a dish that normally requires meat, without meat. A veggie burger just isn't a hamburger, no matter if it tastes the same.

Veggie burgers aren't that great usually. They are just like.. lameish.

If you want a good meatless burger you're going to want a portobello burger (That is... if you like mushrooms). Those are amazing...

When I go to Dennys I usually will order the mushroom with swiss burger and have em swap out their meat for a boca burger patty. If you can taste the difference between that and a normal burger then you're amazing.

But even so, just becuase it tastes a little different, doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. These things that are supposed to taste like meat are really just there for either quick snacks, or kids just getting into the diet. You're not going to eat a whole meal of that stuff and feel full/good.

The point of vegetariansim isn't to try to mimic the tastes of other foods... it's to eat healthy and to eat "guiltlessly". You try new foods, you explore different opportunities... new tastes. Honestly some of the best food I've ever eaten was at a vegetarian restaurant. My omnivoris friend that was with me agreed about how amazing it was. She loved it.

Seriously you guys are just being stubborn now for the sake of being stubborn.

[Bodzilla]

llks4FaEtE0
this thread needs serge the seal.

[p0lar_bear]

When it comes to tastes, to each their own. Personally, I also feel that there is no replacement for the taste of good ole red meat. But that's how I was brought up. Someone who has been brought up with a vegetarian palate or someone who converted from omnivore to herbivore won't feel the same way, and quite frankly, that's fine, and they have every right to. They enjoy the taste and it works for them, leave 'em be.

On the subject of comparing foods, I'll throw in one of my favorites: all-beef hot dogs. I can never go back to those cheap shit hotdogs or Oscar Meyer wieners. Innuendo aside, they're always big, plump, and juicy, and they taste so much better than chicken/pork hot dogs, yet they don't taste like hamburgers.

And I'd like to note that I've tried Bocaburgers before (they're soy burgers IIRC), and they're not bad at all. I'm not willing to make the full conversion though, since I use ground beef for more than just burgers; I honestly can't see how a vegan can make a good taco. If you ask me, the meat, be it chicken or beef, makes it.

[Bodzilla]

mate my dad lives down the road form some butcher who specializes in different sausages.
man these expensive as hell but my god there fuckign good.

i want one right now :gonk:

[Llama Juice]

And I'd like to note that I've tried Bocaburgers before (they're soy burgers IIRC), and they're not bad at all. I'm not willing to make the full conversion though, since I use ground beef for more than just burgers; I honestly can't see how a vegan can make a good taco. If you ask me, the meat, be it chicken or beef, makes it.

I've made vegetarian tacos twice and they were pretty good. My roommate even liked em, and he's the pickiest eater I've ever seen. (aka he wouldn't eat this (http://www.llamajuice.com/img/portobello.jpg) because it has mushrooms, onions, garlic, and sundried tomatoes in it.

You just use fake ground beef.

You can either buy fake ground beef at a store for like 4.50 a lb... or make your own. My cookbook here has a recipe for fake meat and it's kinda interesting.
(makes 5 cups)

1/2 cup vegetarian beef-flavored powder
1 1/4 cups boiling water
3 cups Textured Vegetable Protein (TVP)
3 large eggs
1/2 cup solid vegetable shortening
2 tablespoons Kitchen Bouquet
1 1/2 cups bread crumbs
1/2 cup chopped onion
1 tablespoon minced garlic
2 teaspoons dried marjoram, crumbled
2 teaspoons dried thyme, crumbled
1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce
1/2 cup milk
1 teaspoon coarsely ground black pepper
1 teaspoon salt

Plus... usually when you make tacos you throw that taco seasoning on the meat... that stuff pretty much masks the taste of the meat all together anyhow.