[MOD] AI-Less Campaign Mod

[Dwood]

All right for those of you who browse Halomaps you may already have noticed the AI-Less Campaign mod project.

Basically, I am posting here because we have asked for help but everyone is either busy or only able to give emotional support.

The goal of the Mod is to provide evolving gameplay similar to that of a campaign but not quite.



You would spawn in a lobby, reds in one side, blues in the other, with a wall dividing them. You might get a window for entertainment just to taunt each other

In that lobby, there is many locked doors, and a little standing pad. when all players in the server are standing on one of those 2 pads, a script labels what team each person is on for any future reference, and opens a pathway for blues to tele around the level.

Blue will also get a armory to pick the weapons they want to use, but explosives will be locked until farther along in the level. Red will find checkpoints along the level, which they can warp to from their lobby (retroactive teleporters perhaps?) behind some of their locked doors. Every once and awhile, it will gather the reds in a room for cinematics like normal SP maps.

So, in other words, blues get piles of equipment, and they get stronger and stronger stuff throughout the level as red advances. Reds fight their way through, and get checkpoint warps to continue to where their group last died. I might script in a point system for what resources you use, like how many times your red checkpoints where used.



Now, before we get those "pics or stfu" things coming at me I would like to say that we need help from willing persons so we have stuff that we can show off. Script isn't something that I show pics of sorry.

Also, This mod will be either Custom or Weapons/models from original Halo. (We don't want to rip from other teams)

Namely, Modellers and any scripters if willing.

[Heathen]

IDGI

[ODX]

IDGI
It's just what he said: AI-less campaign online.
Pretty much blue is the enemy, and red are the people trying to get to the end. They will get to 'checkpoints' along that way that will give them teleporters to that spot. Each team spawns in a 'lobby' (armory) where they pick weapons and go.

[PwN Lone]

Exactly what ODX said, basically it's a multiplayer map that is played like a campaign, but with a twist, no AI, just players battling it out. The base of this is Red Team = Good guys/Attackers, Blue Team = Bad guys/Defenders. Red team will most likely be human, although may change due to map setting e.t.c, Blue team will be Covenant (Elite bipeds through use of permutations).

[Heathen]

Oh, so its like some sort of role playing game?







lame

[Dwood]

It's just what he said: AI-less campaign online.
Pretty much blue is the enemy, and red are the people trying to get to the end. They will get to 'checkpoints' along that way that will give them teleporters to that spot. Each team spawns in a 'lobby' (armory) where they pick weapons and go.


Exacly.

I almost forgot, if anyoone wants to get in on this, message me on Xfire: dazerl or post here.

I would like to know what you can do and would like for you to give us examples.


So it's like some sort of roleplaying game?

No plans on it being a roleplaying mod but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of roleplaying in it with everyone's consent on the server.

With the current plans we would have to make a separate variant of the map for it to be 100% roleplay.

[Sever]

We already have TF2 Offense/Defense gametypes for this...

Still, if you can pull it off, more power to you.

[Sel]

Holy shit I remember when kirby suggested that. Pretty cool idea if you can get it to work.

[thehoodedsmack]

You can't make one side a different biped than the other. Permutations are random, iirc. This means you'll get some of both on each team, and it may not look the same to everybody.

[Dwood]

You can't make one side a different biped than the other. Permutations are random, iirc. This means you'll get some of both on each team, and it may not look the same to everybody.

Volume test at the spawn points for permutation switching, imo. since both teams will have different spawn points I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Here is link to thread: http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=13688&start=1

[thehoodedsmack]

Okay, good luck then.

[Bad Waffle]

You know, i really like this idea.

[Disaster]

You know, i really like this idea.
Same Here. I'm really looking forward to see where this goes. Brings a new aspect to CE.

[Dwood]

Thanks for the thumbs up guys. We love the encouragement and all,

But we need help. Namely modeling. So far we only have ideas for the main bsp but it would be great to get started. Also would like to add the possibility of our own hud should the team members feel like it.

The main idea is that the battles would take place in small rooms and tight corridors with ample cover, however there would be quite a few twists and turns in the map so people can take cover while in a battle.

Because People would be allowed armories there will be few (if any) heavy weapons spawn points throughout the level.

The basic idea (edit) is already stated. (/edit)

Any takers?

[adumass]

Why not use one of bungie's campaign bsps to see if you can get all of this to work in the first place, or to test it on while your getting someone to model your level?

[Bad Waffle]

A great bungie BSP would be the first outdoor area in AotCR. I think it would be better if the 'campaign mod' was straight out of 'campaign'.

[TeeKup]

Do it. I love this idea.

[Bad Waffle]

Oh, and keep the weapons/etc completely unmodified. you don't want to ruin a great idea by changing the gameplay.

[Botolf]

Why not use one of bungie's campaign bsps to see if you can get all of this to work in the first place, or to test it on while your getting someone to model your level?
I agree, there are a bunch of campaign levels that would lend themselves well to this. Who knows, maybe the entire campaign could be modified for this project :awesome:

[Kalub]

Wait, isn't there a problem with the whole different biped for each team? I thought you couldn't retrieve a team index via script and then set the model permutation. Correct me if I'm wrong though......

[Edward Elrich]

I see the Library finally getting some good use (and maybe have a Zombies-style game there, where you become a Flood once you die or something...)

Hope it works out!

And in setting the model permutation (knowing nothing about how it works, and assuming it's some sort of random number generator that determines it) couldn't you set the value of what you don't want to something unrealistic that guarantees that it won't happen?

[Kalub]

Well, there are set permutations that can change when something happens, ie: the warthogs motion blurs, and then there are random ones, ie: the marines.

I know you can control which biped permutation is being used, but who knows if it syncs or not, and even then I don't know if you can retrieve a team index per player and assign them their permutation.

Bringing multiplayer gameplay into the equation totally fucks everything, its fine with single player like with SonicXtremes mod, but this is a bit deeper.

I would ask teh lag/Korn or one his/their buddies.

[Dwood]

Wait, isn't there a problem with the whole different biped for each team? I thought you couldn't retrieve a team index via script and then set the model permutation. Correct me if I'm wrong though......

Generally, you would be right, but the method we are using to get the script is different. When all players on only one team have to pass through volume scripts which give them their elite permutations through their spawn points.

Hopefully we can manage to get a system to check if a player has permutations outside of plain ol' master chief then deny access to checkpoint scripts.

We even tossed around the ideas of giving people Jackal Permutations but then it would require skills in rigging that we don't even want to bother with.

About the campaign bsps: Actually, that was the original plan, to use the PoA levels. Also, with the current alpha script we are using, it doesn't discriminate between teams so let's just say an open field battle isn't likely to happen.

It might be interesting to do near the end of Aotcr, the bridge with the banshee on it and the areas just before the big doors. You would start at the base and work your way up to the top into the control room. Of course we would need to cut chunks out of the level to make the map playable, and the big doors open automatically.

I won't be able to do the modding of the .bsp of aotcr for about 12 hrs so if someone wants to do it for me feel free.

[Rob Oplawar]

Have fun writing the scripts. :X

[Kornman00]

While a script *might* be able to accomplish some of the stuff you require during gameplay, a problem arises when trying to deal with players that join midgame, not only in terms of spawning, but in terms of syncing everyone's permutation state. IIRC, the player list order is different on each machine in the game.

[Dwood]

While a script *might* be able to accomplish some of the stuff you require during gameplay, a problem arises when trying to deal with players that join midgame, not only in terms of spawning, but in terms of syncing everyone's permutation state. IIRC, the player list order is different on each machine in the game.


Hm. You have a valid point, as that person would see everyone as Masterchiefs. Yet with Halo's High death rate, people will drop into and out of the permutation volume triggers quite rapidly imo. Maybe a double-check script outside the retroactive tele for Blue team?

If the problems are bad enough, we ask you to use your app before it's official release so we can identify each player individually and what team they are on with a simple variable, (player0, player1, you know). That way, it would also be a first map to show the powers of Open Sauce.

I am not schooled in C++ so it wouldn't get that far without constant help. :(

Oh yes, Rob *WE* (sorry pwn) are having much fun scripting. :D Especially when I made a mistake which would have made every biped switch permutations when someone spawned. >.<

[Sel]

Why would they need to be different bipeds :\

If they can do it great, otherwise nothing lost if its spartans vs spartans.

[Scooby Doo]

i'm just going to throw this out there:

bump posession. is there any way to make one team bump into an elite biped/AI and then kill the MCs that remain. for instance, make a "trap door" so they HAVE to bump into the elite before continuing and then shut the door behind them as soon as they bump with a trigger volume infront of the elite biped. then kill whatever is in the room behind?

i dunno how any of that would work, it's just a thought.

also, what about the FP hands for the elites vs. MCs?

also, make sure u keep the blues from spawning behind the reds after they reach their checkpoints. or mb it would be cool to see how the flanking would work...


lol, if none of the permutations work, just make a storyline based on some rogue spartans (or the next spartan project - that got messed up?).

you know, i had an idea for a long trail-type map where red team has to travel through a long ravine/cliff map and the blue team sits in a high, safe spot where they can see the reds run around. then the blue can go through teles to certain spawn points and ambush them. this is a good idea imo, so if this doesn't work, you can still use ur idea for other things in mp hopefully.


~Scooby

[Kalub]

All I have to say is:


Good luck getting a spartan mesh, and a elite mesh to animate with a single bone system.


:x

[Pooky]

All I have to say is:


Good luck getting a spartan mesh, and a elite mesh to animate with a single bone system.


:x
Just what I was thinking, lol.

You should do what Scooby said, make it a storyline about Rogue Spartans or else abandon any pretense of story and make it a purely multiplayer-centric game.

[Sargent_Hawk]

Dangit, you beat me to it!
Anyways, rouge spartans(I should have posted this sooner) would make it alot easier, and I could fit it into the normal storyline.(Depends if you want a long back story fro the rouge spartans or not)

[Needles]

I'm not a huge fan of campaigns that are just like multilayer ,(like quake wars and UT3), but this sounds fun.

[armoman92]

sound complicated. would try it and probably like it when i saw it.

[Dwood]

Good luck getting a spartan mesh, and a elite mesh to animate with a single bone system.


It's a pain in the butt i've heard the stories. Dx

Now, bump possession isn't the smartest idea because it is either on or it isn't. No way to make it so one team is only affected (that I am aware of)

That also brings into play an annoying detail of people bumping into each other...

We could separate spawn points but that would be annoying #s of areas to go through just to get to the battle.

I'm open to ideas if you have any :cool:

Also would like to state that our pre-alpha script compiled nicely and hopefully will be ready to show you that this is possible. Note i have not ripped aotcr b/c i have other stuff I need to be doing.

Also, Kirby's idea would be putting ai into the player which would make the person run into any spare bipeds for the switching would work but it would be pausing like every 5 seconds b/c of how the script would work. Would be cool for a roleplay I guess but not for good MP playing.

EDITE!
I have an idea: Why not set Blue team to a different kind of Spartan biped/permutation? Shouldn't be too hard to put on bones would it?

[Dwood]

I am teh excited now....

After much heart break (script not being compiled even though no errors) and difficulty. (Tool.)

I have been able to procure a hapless alpha! What version should it be? I dunno, maybe Alpha.0001 imo. All that happened here was that the multi teleporter works! yeah! And not to mention this was a dangercanyon mod!

I am going to set the map up better so it won't look so crappy when I do a video. If all goes well then Look forward to a video by monday.

:iia:

I don't know how to rig a MC skeleton, if someone wants to rig it so the old MC and the H2 one are on the same skeleton... oh wait that would be ripping..... :/

[Pooky]

Dangit, you beat me to it!
Anyways, rouge spartans(I should have posted this sooner) would make it alot easier, and I could fit it into the normal storyline.(Depends if you want a long back story fro the rouge spartans or not)


lmao, rouge spartans

[Con]

How about normal red team blue teams :downs:

[Dwood]

How about normal red team blue teams :downs:

First ones will be but I want to do it because it would add to the effect. And make for openings in possible plot lines...
Maybe scrap the idea all together and do an ODST player campaign somehow located in Halo? hmmm..... Seems people have been pretty edgy for an ODST thing.

I have many other ideas which I would love to test out...

[Heathen]

>.>

Ok bungie.

[Bad Waffle]

Ive got this crappy ODST biped ive had from working on Bridge, but since Rob has been a prick to me since he had a mental breakdown or something, i'll gladly let you use it.

[SnaFuBAR]

I think this is just another halo mod pipedream.

[Kalub]

Pipedream was a sweet map.... /ot

[Con]

those pipes were great

[SnaFuBAR]

your mom's pipes were great :o

[Kalub]

So anyways, at this point in time I'll be adding this map to the fail list. Please strive to prove me wrong and remove it by making the concept work.

[Dwood]

So anyways, at this point in time I'll be adding this map to the fail list. Please strive to prove me wrong and remove it by making the concept work.

Don't be so quick. Just because I post a few ideas which may not be the greatest does NOT mean I am going to do them. Guess I was getting too excited. With this multi tele it opens up tons of new MP possibilities which would bring variety to Halo CE online again. .

[bobbysoon]

I got a jackal/marine biped i'm working on. both node sets linked to a common root. Customized the exporters to recognize "jackal" and "marine" prefixes as nodes. Tool didn't mind the prefixes.
The idea is that a script sets the permutation based on which weapon is held. Thus, players don't pickup weapons after the first one, in the spawn zone. And players don't drop weapons.
The fp pretend-permutates with animations. Human weapon animations will have marine arms in front and jackal arms out of view, and visa-versy for covie weapons
But the flag and oddball, those will be held by both. So, any suggestions there? Maybe some trickery with the multipurpose maps that can make a shader model invisable based on the team function C? Or just some orange cyborg arms?

Would this campaign be a particular gametype?

[Dwood]

I got a jackal/marine biped i'm working on. both node sets linked to a common root. Customized the exporters to recognize "jackal" and "marine" prefixes as nodes. Tool didn't mind the prefixes.
The idea is that a script sets the permutation based on which weapon is held. Thus, players don't pickup weapons after the first one, in the spawn zone. And players don't drop weapons.
The fp pretend-permutates with animations. Human weapon animations will have marine arms in front and jackal arms out of view, and visa-versy for covie weapons
But the flag and oddball, those will be held by both. So, any suggestions there? Maybe some trickery with the multipurpose maps that can make a shader model invisable based on the team function C? Or just some orange cyborg arms?

Would this campaign be a particular gametype?

Even though that is a valid method I would rather do just normal teams than restrict anyone to 2 certain weapons simply for permutations switching.

Game play is more important to me than permutations. Sure they would be great to have but for all intents and purposes it would only be for effect.

[Agnaiel]

I think he was saying make it that way for all the weapons you were going to include, which would be really cool.

This entire idea seems awesome. I remember reading about this as a possibility from Halomaps, and I think this would be a hard thing to pull off, but if it's done nicely, I will gladly reinstall CE for it.

[SnaFuBAR]

So basically this is another one of those, "I have an idea and nothing to show that I can accomplish it and need everyone else to do it" threads?

[PwN Lone]

We have already said that we are NOT going to show off our scripts, we know that it will definetly turn up in a box map or 2, and that is something we do not want. Maybe, just maybe, we will release the script at the end of the mod. As for needing help, were not gonna be egotistical and say we dont need any help. We do need help maybe not so much on the scripting side of things, but on the other hand we do need modellers, not necessarily right away but for future maps that we could implement our script in.

[Dwood]

So basically this is another one of those, "I have an idea and nothing to show that I can accomplish it and need everyone else to do it" threads?

Would it make you happy if I posted a video of it working? In fact I'm encoding one right now.

True dat PwN.

I'm trying to get aotcr to load in sapien right now for this but it doesn't want to. Even if I rename my tags folder to _tags and extract all the files in a new tags folder. (that way all file paths will be undisturbed etc)

Find the Video: http://www.xfire.com/video/2bc9d/

[bobbysoon]

Projectile mod? You're fired

For the checkpoint spawning thing, have an ai continuously running along with each team, serverside. The respawned players can be attached to the ai, then detached, effectively teleporting to it. These ai should not kill, die, or collide with other bipeds or vehicles, and should be as simple as possible to minimize interference with gameplay. It should run away from danger, so players spawn into a safe place, and the script should 'wait for space to clear'. Just an idea.

[Dwood]

Projectile mod? You're fired

For the checkpoint spawning thing, have an ai continuously running along with each team, serverside. The respawned players can be attached to the ai, then detached, effectively teleporting to it. These ai should not kill, die, or collide with other bipeds or vehicles, and should be as simple as possible to minimize interference with gameplay. It should run away from danger, so players spawn into a safe place, and the script should 'wait for space to clear'. Just an idea.

It's not a projectile mod if I understand what you said. I was just doing that to show where I was going to spawn next. The bullets and nades have no other purpose.

I'll run the idea of the ai with the others even though I doubt it would work unless I was holding the map in a dedicated server 24/7. The issue of duplicate ai comes into play so mine would need be the only one with the ai in it. Then no one else would be able to host their own servers of it *with the checkpoint system* should they want to.

[Kalub]

What does that video show other than a simply way over complicated teleporting system?

[ICEE]

Provided that you can get the biped permutations working properly, there is still one fatal flaw that i doubt can be avoided: FP arms. It isn't possible to tie fp arms to biped (as far as I know), so you could end up being an elite with cyborg fp arms or a cyborg with elite fp arms, provided that you had elite fp arms to begin with. Not to be a dumper, this idea seems great but I don't think that biped permutations are going to work out.

[PwN Lone]

Well we weren't gonna have different permutations for the first version. So that eliminates that problem, for now anyway, any other questions/comments?

[SnaFuBAR]

that doesn't eliminate the problem of different fp arms.

[Dwood]

What does that video show other than a simply way over complicated teleporting system?


It's almost exactly what we need for this kind of map.

Do you not see how this could be used in an Ai-less MP campaign?


that doesn't eliminate the problem of different fp arms.

1. lol
2. Even though it doesn't, I put hope that kornman's project might pave the path to fixing that problem.

[ICEE]

that doesn't eliminate the problem of different fp arms.
It doesn't fix the problem, but it does eliminate the fact that it is a problem.

[Dwood]

Okay I'm stuck. I've extracted my bsp I want for this, converted to from .obj to .3ds Aaaand I have one last problem before I can compile it: Max does NOT want to let me import my textures. What now?

<strike>Edit: Nevermind, I got the textures to work!

Now onto the next step</strike>

Well I got the textures into 3ds max man who knew ripping would be so painful?

I've spent like 10 hrs trying to get it to work lol. Looking up on some tutorials now of how to texture. :/ This is not my forte.

[Kalub]

YOu should just be able to go :hurr: and drag the textures to where they go provided your exporter saved the UV coordinates.

[Dwood]

YOu should just be able to go :hurr: and drag the textures to where they go provided your exporter saved the UV coordinates.


I did, and I keep getting this in tool:

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Halo Custom Edition>tool structure levels\b40 b
40_c
Couldn't read map file './toolbeta.map'
building intermediate geometry...
EAX: 0xFFFFFFFE
EBX: 0x03A60E01
ECX: 0x0012F2D0
EDX: 0x000002CC
EDI: 0x0012F2D0
ESI: 0x00000000
EBP: 0x0012F1A8
ESP: 0x0012F198
EIP: 0x7C90EB94, C3 8D A4 24 ?????
EXCEPTION halt in .\intermediate_geometry.c,#444: triangle->material_index>=0 &&
triangle->material_index<old_material_count

[ThePlague]

If I remember correctly, it didn't export correctly.

Did you convert to editable mesh before export? Try it and see if it works.

[teh lag]

http://halo.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7149&highlight=material_index%26lt%3Bold_material_count

Please use search.

[Dwood]

http://halo.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7149&highlight=material_index%26lt%3Bold_material_count

Please use search.

I was, just at halomaps and it didn't occur to me to search here :/

I tried that and it seems I get errors galore.

I will try this again by restarting the model from the time I extracted it.

[ThePlague]

Select the model, go to the hammer in 3ds max/Gmax, press the more... button, click on uvw remove, press remove materials. Then apply the materials again.

[bobbysoon]

that doesn't eliminate the problem of different fp arms.
4 arms does. 2 of one kind, 2 of the other. Animations holding weapons of one teams use that team's permutations arms, while the other arms are out of fp view, and visa versa for the other weapons.
Problem here is the flag and oddball, but perhaps some objective items for each team will work, and script the flag scoring when the items are taken home, by tele to enemy flag position, and tele to home flag position
I almost got a working team marker system working, by attaching a biped to a respawned player, and ai_attaching the biped to an ai team. Knowing who's where should make the flag scoring script possible.

[Dwood]

4 arms does. 2 of one kind, 2 of the other. Animations holding weapons of one teams use that team's permutations arms, while the other arms are out of fp view, and visa versa for the other weapons.
Problem here is the flag and oddball, but perhaps some objective items for each team will work, and script the flag scoring when the items are taken home, by tele to enemy flag position, and tele to home flag position
I almost got a working team marker system working, by attaching a biped to a respawned player, and ai_attaching the biped to an ai team. Knowing who's where should make the flag scoring script possible.


You also forgot about what it would look like for those around them.....

I am looking around right now for 2 things:

A script so that we can make it so one team can activate a volume trigger but not another.

And second, a way to fix errors of overlapping vertices. Tried using weld but that didn't work out so well.
Note: I am new to modelling. If i import the .wrl file can I somehow merge those into the 3ds file or are those only useable to find what's wrong?

[ThePlague]

And second, a way to fix errors of overlapping vertices. Tried using weld but that didn't work out so well.
Note: I am new to modelling. If i import the .wrl file can I somehow merge those into the 3ds file or are those only useable to find what's wrong?The .wrl is the only good way to find overlapping surfaces. Once you do find them, delete the faces, and create new ones.

[Pooky]

You also forgot about what it would look like for those around them.....

he said fp arms... fp arms have no bearing on 3p arms :eyesroll:

[Dwood]

he said fp arms... fp arms have no bearing on 3p arms :eyesroll:


Forgot that detail. I should have remembered that if everyone would be able to see the 2 sets of arms then we would be able to see our feet ingame xP

[IGM Dhark]

ummm, isn't this almost the same thing as the assault gametype we were making? Not trying to cause flames or anything, I've only read the first 3 pages and just wanted to know (simply put) what are the differences and/or the role differences?

[bobbysoon]

So, your control point project is something like how Battlefront works? You expand your control, and give respawners more places to respawn?

I think the main difference is that your project depends on an external app, if I understand your project correctly

[IGM Dhark]

only the zombie app / dev extension app are the apps, our assault thing is all in the map actually by use of scripts

[Dwood]

only the zombie app / dev extension app are the apps, our assault thing is all in the map actually by use of scripts


..... How? I've spent hours thinking about this and I had various ideas on how to keep Blue from activating Red's spawns/checkpoints but they mostly all got knocked out the window.

The main difference between my Campaign Idea and yours is the following:

As Red progresses Blue gets better stuff. This also will have attempts at a story line.

[IGM Dhark]

oh, we have that feature too (better weapons, pickups, etc); what we don't have is an actual storyline as we continue through the match, merely objectives; good luck with matching the story with the actual gameplay/map though (that wasn't sarcasm)

[Dwood]

oh, we have that feature too (better weapons, pickups, etc); what we don't have is an actual storyline as we continue through the match, merely objectives; good luck with matching the story with the actual gameplay/map though (that wasn't sarcasm)


That's the easy part. but seriously how did you do that without an external app? From what i've tried it hasn't worked man. I would love to at least know the trick so that I can code it myself.