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Somebody123
September 21st, 2008, 03:30 PM
I thought here would be a good place to get some constructive critisism. Flame, praise, whatever the case, I'd appreciate some tips on how to improve what I have so far. Mind you this IS a wip, and nowhere close to done. Somehow, I'm not exactly sure how yet, the center will have two more leg like structures that go down to the ground. They will both look different from the current legs, and one will have an entrance of some sorts. This is a very large structure in comparison to a human. This will also have a subtle archetectual design that implies something [a beacon] is being recieved. Like how the beacon-sending buildings had a shape that implied something leaving it. Any relevent and constructive critisism I'll appreciate. I'm working a lot on my modelling skills and this is an area where I believe I'm lacking. Thanks!

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Sombody123/Models/base.png

DarkHalo003
September 21st, 2008, 04:21 PM
The top structure throws off the entire structure. It just doesn't look forerunner. Forerunner is straight up and down and doesn't bend outwards.

Somebody123
September 21st, 2008, 04:44 PM
The top structure throws off the entire structure. It just doesn't look forerunner. Forerunner is straight up and down and doesn't bend outwards.
It actually doesn't bend outwards, It just looks like it from the render. Its also placeholder, but thanks for the tip. I'll redesign it soon. It also won't be the "top" of the structure. I want that area to be able to be seen from the ground, but I also want an even larger protrusion going into the sky, as that is how many Forerunner structures look. The protrusion will be the attention grabber, the thing that can be seen from miles away. I have ideas for how to design it, but I'm open to any suggestion. I'd like to use an upside down [because I want the building to imply something being recieved]version of the volcom-logo-like-protrusions the Forerunners seem to like. Examples: The buildings on the second level of Combat Evolved, the sideways version on the 2nd and 3rd platforms where the energy barrier is brought down [On the level The Covenant in H3]

Higuy
September 21st, 2008, 04:53 PM
Eh intresting desgin but it dosent look all that forerunner.

Somebody123
September 21st, 2008, 04:55 PM
Any tips on how to make it more forerunner like?
And don't worry. I'll chamfer and turbosmooth EVERYTHING.

NuggetWarmer
September 21st, 2008, 07:05 PM
I like it. Reminds me of the flood chambers on 343GS.

Bad Waffle
September 21st, 2008, 07:47 PM
Its starting to look like forerunner. Dont listen to that above man, there's lots of curves and bends in forerunner.

I reccomend playing halo 3 and looking through the forerunner structures, and copying them out. Then you'll be ok to make some great looking custom forerunner.

teh lag
September 21st, 2008, 07:49 PM
-The "legs" on the inside at the base are wayyyyyyy too thin.

-The inset near the middle of either side the arch doesn't blend at all with the surrounding angles. Make it better or remove it.

-The "tower" part looks distinctively un-forerunner... the structure would look better without it IMO, as some sort of bracing on an interior (as nugget said, like in 343).

Sel
September 21st, 2008, 07:54 PM
The base is fine, everything above that is distinctly not forerunner.

Apoc4lypse
September 21st, 2008, 11:12 PM
hmm... reminds me of a possible door fram for a blast door on a human spacestation/ship of some kind. Although I can see some forerunner... just seems like it'd work well like that.

DOMINATOR
September 22nd, 2008, 04:04 AM
next time put a biped in to get a sense of scale. i have no idea how big it is supposed to be.
looks pretty cool besides the thing on top. i would put like 6 of em in a row spaced out with a walkway or something on top connecting them together and to a base.

Somebody123
September 22nd, 2008, 10:00 PM
-The inset near the middle of either side the arch doesn't blend at all with the surrounding angles. Make it better or remove it.
I didn't exactly understand what you meant by that. If what I think you said is correct, then I roughly modeled that based off some of the cutouts the forerunners have in many of their buildings. It seemed to fit fine at the time. I may change it though, depending on how I feel after I sleep on it.

Also, I changed the two inside supports completely, I think they are too thick as of now, but I had to redo the render plenty of times, and didn't want to loose the time I could have spent modeling again. Imagine the thinner maybe?

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Sombody123/Models/baserevision.png
Note: The purple box you see is about the size a biped will be.

TeeKup
September 22nd, 2008, 10:19 PM
That's.....a rather large structure. What's it's purpose?

SnaFuBAR
September 23rd, 2008, 03:17 AM
Visual interest is going out the window. You should've kept the small details to the inside of the frame. glad you got rid of that tower thing though, it was pretty out of touch with the rest of it. Get rid of those insets, they suck.

Sel
September 23rd, 2008, 07:51 AM
http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10229

Should have posted this before. Use that to help yourself understand the style.

Somebody123
September 23rd, 2008, 04:37 PM
That's.....a rather large structure. What's it's purpose?
The idea is that if information needs to be sent very quickly from world to world, it can be done with these. Kind of like a UNSC Slipspace COM Launcher, only much faster, and can be sent and recieved through the same structure. And right when I got off the computer was when I began to think the structure was WAY too big. It's resized now, and much smaller. I took out the cutouts/insets, and am now reworking the center.
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Sombody123/Models/revision2.png

Advancebo
September 23rd, 2008, 10:04 PM
fix the legs that extrude into the middle of the model

FRain
September 23rd, 2008, 10:23 PM
fix the legs that extrude into the middle of the model

Just saying: fix them, doesn't help. What in particular is wrong with them, because I see nothing wrong with them.

Heathen
September 23rd, 2008, 10:58 PM
He means that them extruding into the middle isn't forerunnery enough for this forum. :lol:

Advancebo
September 24th, 2008, 07:24 AM
fix these things:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc292/Advancebo/revision2.png

they look to plain

Somebody123
September 24th, 2008, 08:26 AM
fix these things:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc292/Advancebo/revision2.png

they look to plain
There are structures on construct EXACTLY like that. The only thing different is that the ones on construct are beveled on the sides. When I get home from school I may create a cutout.

E: I didn't just extrude by the way, they were made from a totally different shape. I thought he fact that the cutout was a completely different shape distinguished that. I'm reworking them anyways.

Tweek
September 24th, 2008, 09:46 AM
fix these things:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc292/Advancebo/revision2.png

they look to plain

funny, how they're like the only parts i'd say that are any GOOD.
i do not applaud thee. i give you the opposite.
i would however like to congratulate you on your, hereby noted, being wrong.
g'day.

DarkHalo003
September 24th, 2008, 09:32 PM
Forerunners have a TON (not in diversity, but how much of a structure is detailed) of intricate detail in their structure. Almost everything has to have multiple tiny segments/angles on its flat sides. Play Halo2 on the level Sacred Icon. That level is perfect for this type of Forerunner design.

Botolf
September 25th, 2008, 04:51 AM
If you need reference material, I've collected some screenshots of Forerunner architecture. Some of it's mine, a lot of it was gathered from the internets.

http://botolf.googlepages.com/HaloCEReferenceShots.zip

Somebody123
September 29th, 2008, 11:20 PM
I haven't had time to work on the structure recently, but hopefully after this week I will. I had a project due today [which I finished at 3 am], one Wednesday [nowhere near done], a 5 minute scene to do on Friday that I still need to memorize, a test Wednesday, and I need to get an animation done for my job. The animation will probably take this week plus next to perfect with all the crap I have to finish. And once I get all that done I can MAYBE actually sit down and work on this. Damn you school. :(

ThePlague
September 30th, 2008, 08:30 PM
It doesn't look forerunner enough to me. It's interesting, but I see no purpose in this model. Good effort though.

Ki11a_FTW
September 30th, 2008, 08:43 PM
http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10229

Should have posted this before. Use that to help yourself understand the style.

shut up selentic

Sel
October 1st, 2008, 08:10 AM
wat?

Matooba
October 1st, 2008, 05:47 PM
Hey what happened to those cool insets you had on the sides of the main supports?

Somebody123
October 1st, 2008, 09:24 PM
Hey what happened to those cool insets you had on the sides of the main supports?
Although I agree that they look cool, nobody liked them. I'm going to redo them when i get the chance.

Sel
October 2nd, 2008, 07:41 AM
Hey what happened to those cool insets you had on the sides of the main supports?

They were not part of the forerunner style.


Although I agree that they look cool, nobody liked them. I'm going to redo them when i get the chance.

There is nothing wrong with that, just refer to the link I gave you to do it properly and have it be part of the forerunner style.

DOMINATOR
October 2nd, 2008, 12:15 PM
Although I agree that they look cool, nobody liked them. I'm going to redo them when i get the chance.
they were cool idea just awkward shape. if you mirrored that idea onto more structures within the level it would flow better.

Botolf
October 2nd, 2008, 04:19 PM
@Selentic.

I'm going to point out there isn't a "proper" way of creating Forerunner architecture. 3 Halo games (soon to be 4) all have their own unique spin on the concept, so it can't just be simplified down to a few bare rules. I'd say conforming to the spirit is more important than conforming to "the rules".

Heathen
October 2nd, 2008, 04:54 PM
^ that

Sel
October 2nd, 2008, 06:10 PM
@Selentic.

I'm going to point out there isn't a "proper" way of creating Forerunner architecture. 3 Halo games (soon to be 4) all have their own unique spin on the concept, so it can't just be simplified down to a few bare rules. I'd say conforming to the spirit is more important than conforming to "the rules".

The angles are consistent through each of the games, and that is precisely what my tutorial dealt with.

So yes, there are basic rules, if there weren't you coulc=d just call anything forerunner <_<

Botolf
October 2nd, 2008, 08:21 PM
The angles are consistent through each of the games, and that is precisely what my tutorial dealt with.
Consistent through each of the games? Not really. Just take all the round edges and pillars that keep popping up, for example. Take the massive style changes going from Halo 1 to 2, for example.

Then look at the results of following narrow sets of rules like this (hordes of halomaps showcases in this instance). Notice how neatly they fall "within the lines"? Notice how they all look alike? :/


So yes, there are basic rules, if there weren't you coulc=d just call anything forerunner <_<
I'll grant you that, but ultimately I think you're hung up on the wrong ones. The Forerunner style isn't about "angle snaps and 45 degree angles". It's simply more abstract and grandiose than that. Reconsider your rules, because they hardly describe any "style" at all.

TeeKup
October 2nd, 2008, 09:18 PM
I would also like to mention in Halo 2 the majority of structures were aged and old, representing a dated design This also implies that despite the advancement of the forerunners, the rings most likely took generations to construct. During that time designs could have drastically changed.

Darqeness
October 7th, 2008, 06:43 AM
I would also like to mention in Halo 2 the majority of structures were aged and old, representing a dated design This also implies that despite the advancement of the forerunners, the rings most likely took generations to construct. During that time designs could have drastically changed.

Not to mention the ancient, simplistic forerunner architecture being uncovered in Sandtrap. If you could call that Forerunner...

DarkHalo003
October 7th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Not to mention the ancient, simplistic forerunner architecture being uncovered in Sandtrap. If you could call that Forerunner...
I still say the BEST place to study Forerunner structure is the level Sacred Icon. Almost every type of Forerunner structure is in that level alone.

PopeAK49
October 7th, 2008, 08:11 PM
@Selentic.

I'm going to point out there isn't a "proper" way of creating Forerunner architecture. 3 Halo games (soon to be 4) all have their own unique spin on the concept, so it can't just be simplified down to a few bare rules. I'd say conforming to the spirit is more important than conforming to "the rules".

Hmm this man is right, but be careful of your words. All forerunner architecture in the halo games have some of the same looks to them. The rule of forerunner art and architecture and i quote. "Forerunner architecture is noted mainly for being large-scale and geometric in style." and also some information in common forerunner interiors is "The Forerunners also decorated the interiors of their structures with a complex web of engraved straight lines and applied decorative touches and designs to nearly everything that they build, from structures to weapons." This kind of explains the detail on the walls of forerunner interiors. O and of course this is A MAJOR ELEMENT not a RULE, Because forerunner architecture does not have to be a certain angle. "A major element found in most Forerunner structures is the 45 degree and 180 degree angles. Not many Forerunner structures do not have these angles." CASE CLOSED!

Of course i will post my sources for this information

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Forerunner#Art_and_Architecture

See halopedia is a strong source of information for your typical halo universe.

Botolf
October 7th, 2008, 08:49 PM
Hmm this man is right, but be careful of your words. All forerunner architecture in the halo games have some of the same looks to them. The rule of forerunner art and architecture and i quote. "Forerunner architecture is noted mainly for being large-scale and geometric in style." and also some information in common forerunner interiors is "The Forerunners also decorated the interiors of their structures with a complex web of engraved straight lines and applied decorative touches and designs to nearly everything that they build, from structures to weapons." This kind of explains the detail on the walls of forerunner interiors. O and of course this is A MAJOR ELEMENT not a RULE, Because forerunner architecture does not have to be a certain angle. "A major element found in most Forerunner structures is the 45 degree and 180 degree angles. Not many Forerunner structures do not have these angles." CASE CLOSED!

Of course i will post my sources for this information

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Forerunner#Art_and_Architecture

See halopedia is a strong source of information for your typical halo universe.
In the end, I guess my thought on the subject is considerably more "artsy" and abstract than sel's, which is why I provided a collection of pictures to study instead of a tutorial.

jngrow
October 7th, 2008, 08:53 PM
and geometric in style."

What architecture isn't geometric in style? (Except that artsy curvy impractical stuff that people build)

PopeAK49
October 7th, 2008, 09:43 PM
Don't question me. Question halopedia.

jngrow
October 7th, 2008, 09:45 PM
Don't question me. Question halopedia.
I ain't :P

PopeAK49
October 9th, 2008, 09:54 PM
Well i think its that forerunner architecture is complex in design more then human and convenant. Does that work for you?

MetKiller Joe
October 9th, 2008, 10:10 PM
Well i think its that forerunner architecture is complex in design more then human and convenant. Does that work for you?

I would disagree, Forerunner architecture uses very simple shapes and angles to create a complex system. But, yes, I guess in lay man's terms it would simply be labeled as complex architecture.

Pooky
October 10th, 2008, 04:04 PM
They were not part of the forerunner style.

Question. If a human being builds something drastically different from anyone before him, does his structure no longer fit into the human 'style'?



It's stupid to put all these arbitrary limits on what can and can't be considered 'forerunner architecture' and prosecute any deviants. I've been guilty of this in the past but really isn't it better to let people have their creative freedom?

These Forerunners were an entire race, why the hell are they limited to all building their structures exactly the same way?

Even within my home city, buildings vary drastically from one to the next. The people who built them all did so with very different ideas in mind as to what they wanted, despite all being humans. Unless the Forerunners were all robots, the same should apply to them.

Corndogman
October 10th, 2008, 04:21 PM
But the Halos were intentionally built in a specific style like that. Who knows, maybe they had different kinds of buildings on their home planet. But hey, were speaking of an entirely fictional race here, so there's no point to that much speculation.

TeeKup
October 10th, 2008, 05:29 PM
But the Halos were intentionally built in a specific style like that. Who knows, maybe they had different kinds of buildings on their home planet. But hey, were speaking of an entirely fictional race here, so there's no point to that much speculation.

Where's the fun in that?

Pooky
October 10th, 2008, 05:31 PM
But the Halos were intentionally built in a specific style like that.

Not all Forerunner structures are exclusively on ring worlds :\

Corndogman
October 11th, 2008, 01:37 AM
I know that, I'm just saying, the structures on the halos were built in that specific style because that's how the halos were designed.

PopeAK49
October 12th, 2008, 05:27 PM
ahh yes the architecture on the halos and the ark were built with a specific style such as the control room, the multiplayer level narrows (which purpose is too cool down halo i guess or was it the arc?), the map room. Basically halos structures where built to make halo both a weapon and an adaptable place. But i see what corndogman is saying.

Matooba
October 13th, 2008, 04:35 PM
Designer Graeme Devine describes:

"Forerunner design has a certain vibe to it that we’ve worked quite hard on. In the Halo FPS games we see quite a bit of Forerunner architecture, machinery and environments. Extending that out into the RTS world, and into new environments, we had to keep the look and feel of what we’ve seen before but at the same time offer something new, some new function that keeps that mystery going that all Forerunner installations and devices have."

The newest Forerunner Structures: (Maybe these could inspire you a bit somebody.)
Structure 1 (http://www.halowars.com/images/screenshots/wallpaper.aspx?s=concept08_11_1024.jpg)
Structure 2 (http://www.halowars.com/images/screenshots/wallpaper.aspx?s=concept08_10_1024.jpg)
Structure 3 (http://www.halowars.com/images/screenshots/wallpaper.aspx?s=concept08_12_1024.jpg)

Hope that helps you out.

PlasbianX
October 13th, 2008, 06:27 PM
IMHO.. those don't look very forerunner like =/

PopeAK49
October 13th, 2008, 07:47 PM
But it is.....I guess.....