Schism

[rossmum]

The idea I had for a large, asymmetrical map centred on strong teamwork has snowballed into a fully-blown conversion project, so I'll be needing some help. I'm hoping we can pool our best resources into this to create something incredible and special that will really breathe some life back into CE, so if you're interested in doing so, keep reading.

Originally I just wanted to make a map that did three things: set the stage for large-scale air and ground warfare with a lot of emphasis on combined arms, really embody the majesty of Forerunner architecture and the landscape of the rings, and inspire strong teamwork to win. The initial plan was just to have a series of snaking canyons allowing for as much action vertically as across the expanse of ground; however after speaking with Con and Snaf, a progression from said canyons to a rolling coastal plain and then to a sheer drop into the ocean seems a better idea, as it will accomodate all styles of combat at some point along the map. I thought it'd be an idea to tweak the weapons to make the way they work more logical (i.e. all very damaging with no shields, but some almost useless with shields); I'd also been thinking of distributing weapons and vehicles so one side had human gear and the other Covenant. This soon evolved into replacing Spartans, who wouldn't be fighting each other in any logical setting in the Halo universe, with Elites - Separatists against Loyalists.

So far it's very much in the planning stage; I've done a little concept work and fleshed out the idea considerably, especially after running it by Snaf and Con (who are both willing to contribute). While this is a very ambitious project, we are a very skilled community, and I feel that if we band together on this, we can turn out something that will prove that Halo is by no means obsolete yet.

To give you an idea of the sheer scale of the project -


Size. The map is going to be huge, probably measuring in the range of square kilometres. However, objective placement and environmental factors will ensure that players don't have to spend an hour looking for the enemy; they'll just have to head for the nearest objective. As a result this map is probably going to be pretty terrible for Slayer games where there's no VIP/set target as such, but I prefer team games anyway.
New content. Most, if not all, of the weapons are going to be reworked at the very least, and several will probably be replaced entirely. The players will be Elites, not Spartans, and they will take hits and move like Elites, not just model-swapped Spartans. There will probably be a good deal of custom vehicles, too. Flags will probably be replaced with something else, too; some kind of credible military objective.
Environment. My goal is to try and combine the majesty of Halo 1 and 3's enviroments perfectly, really providing a beautiful backdrop to the action but also adding to function as well as form. Things like properly concealed sniper roosts and obs posts, well-placed pieces of cover, large and distinctive structures that can be used as rally points, etc. are all part of the plan.If you're interested and you know your way around the HEK, modelling, skinning, etc., then please feel free to express said interest here. I can model some things and can do some limited skinning work, but I'm not Superman. There are a few people in particular who I would kill to work with on this, and I think they probably know who they are without me having to name them ;o

So far Con has offered to do casual work and some weapon skinning and Snaf is happy to contribute advice, Covenant structures and Elite FP arms. As for me, I've been thinking this through all afternoon and scribbling things down as I get the inspiration, as seen here:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/structures.jpg
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/sights.jpg
(Credit for the holo-sight idea goes to Snaf)

[FluffyDucky™]

I would love to help in contributing advice and what not. I have a very imaginative mind, but incapable of bringing ideas to life like you leetbix modelers, skinners etc. :)




Size. The map is going to be huge, probably measuring in the range of square kilometres. However, objective placement and environmental factors will ensure that players don't have to spend an hour looking for the enemy; they'll just have to head for the nearest objective. As a result this map is probably going to be pretty terrible for Slayer games where there's no VIP/set target as such, but I prefer team games anyway.
How "huge" are you imaging it to be? I hope nowhere near the size of fucking coldsnap. Cause your beautiful idea will turn into the 2009 noob map of the year. I think you should really think quite deeply to how "huge" you want this map to be. If your thinking more like.. death island size? Or a bit bigger, even double of that? Then that should be resonable.

As for the bipeds, no spartans? Hmm, is this map going to be focused mainly on the convenant? If it isn't, may I ask why you are leaning towards that idea? It's putting me off a bit tbh.

Vehicles; what vehicles do you plan to use? Pelicans (as in your scibbles) should definiatley be in this map. I would really like to see them in a good map that can be played by more than just noobs migrating from the coldsnap servers. What other vehicles do you plan on using?

[rossmum]

How "huge" are you imaging it to be? I hope nowhere near the size of fucking coldsnap. Cause your beautiful idea will turn into the 2009 noob map of the year. I think you should really think quite deeply to how "huge" you want this map to be. If your thinking more like.. death island size? Or a bit bigger, even double of that? Then that should be resonable.
A lot bigger than DI, but probably not as big as Coldsnap (I'd imagine half to two-thirds of the size at most); keep in mind though that this won't be a huge open space like Coldsnap and I'm putting consideration into ways to prevent some twat laying waste to all and sundry with vehicles. The Separatist end of the map will be a lot more cramped and will likely play out similarly to Infinity, while the Loyalist end is rather open, pretty much like the second level of the campaign. The size shouldn't hurt the gameplay too much, if I've got this planned out alright.


As for the bipeds, no spartans? Hmm, is this map going to be focused mainly on the convenant? If it isn't, may I ask why you are leaning towards that idea? It's putting me off a bit tbh.
I always found the idea of Spartans fighting each other a bit odd, especially since the Elite is a fairly close match; the fact that the Covenant does separate and they end up fighting each other gives me something about on par with the Spartan everyone knows and loves, but which makes sense. In terms of focusing on the Covenant, the Loyalists will have purely Covenant weapons and vehicles by default, while the Separatists will have a mix of both human and Covenant gear. If Halo 1 allowed us to separate bipeds by team, I would've made it Spartans against Elites, but unfortunately we can't do that at this stage.


Vehicles; what vehicles do you plan to use? Pelicans (as in your scibbles) should definiatley be in this map. I would really like to see them in a good map that can be played by more than just noobs migrating from the coldsnap servers. What other vehicles do you plan on using?
Standard Warthogs, Ghosts, and maybe the odd Spectre or two will provide ground transport; each side will have some armour (Scorpions, Wraiths, maybe AA Wraiths) and a lot of air support (Banshees, possibly Hornets and/or Sparrowhawks). Dropships will be included but the emphasis will be on transport rather than blowing the shit out of things while the rest of your team have to slog it instead, so the Pelican will probably rely on whatever firepower the passengers can muster (and MAYBE the chin gun), while the Phantom or Spirit will have the necessary guns but no provision at all for the passengers to chime in with their own arms. Shades will be in abundance, I'll see if I can work out some sort of human fixed AA/AP gun as well. There may be more vehicles, but it's not all that likely; those should form the backbone of the attack force.

[FluffyDucky™]

Ok, so will this mean it won't have the human sniper and pistol? I really cant stand having covenant weapons only. Those two weapons are like second nature to me now.


New content. Most, if not all, of the weapons are going to be reworked at the very least, and several will probably be replaced entirely.

Reworked? Elaborate on this. Take into consideration of what I have said at the top of this post. (Just trying to get more of an idea tbh)

[rossmum]

It'll have human weapons, but the Loyalist team won't spawn with them. The Separatists will have instant access to them, but may not actually spawn with them.

Reworked weapons will be a lot different, it'll really knock the usual rhythym on the head but it shouldn't make it impossible. To give you an idea, once your shields go down, you're in dire straits no matter what's shooting at you. Spread on things like the AR will be much, much smaller and they'll have a much greater range, but they'll recoil and throw your aim off. It's hard to explain, but you'll probably get used to them without too much trouble.

e/

Snaf's going to be doing the models for the MA5C, MA5K and also the revamped PR. He's also still got modular sections of Covenant architecture from an old project which can be put to good use, so things are certainly going to be looking pretty.

[Hunter]

:O I want to help. Any weapons or vehicles I can make?

Would you use a Halo 3 style pelican because I need to model that for someone soon. :P

*I love pelicans :P*

[Rentafence]

I would love to help with some of the modeling. Hopefully I can put myself to good use and get something finished for this damn game. As long as you supply concepts, I'll know exactly what to do.

[rossmum]

No reason to fag up a good idea, so I don't think you'll be needed hunter.
Actually, there may be need for a (wrecked) Scarab as a visual point of interest/large piece of cover.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/bluebase.jpg
Idea for the Loyalist base's main building (the flag/objective will be on the platform overhanging the sea). The base itself will consist of several structures, not just this one.

[Disaster]

I'll help if I can find time. I'm relatively good at modeling terrain. I can also model anything if i'm given concepts.

[FluffyDucky™]

That looks lovely rossmum. Keep posting more scribbles please. :)

[jngrow]

I HATE NINJAS WHO BE GUD AT DRAWIN.

That looks really cool, more plz.

[Rentafence]

Hot.

[Gwunty]

Who else thought of tool when they saw this?

[Syuusuke]

You're not the only one.

What is that the thing that looks like a mechanical jackel's head (labeled "idk?") intended to be?

[Rentafence]

Looks like some sort of Covenant building to me.

[rossmum]

Failed attempt at blending one of the old Halo 1 concepts with a base. :F

[ima_from_America]

Will there be objects and scenery that accompany weapons that are just lying around in the middle of the map? If you don't understand, it just bugs me to see weapons just smack-dab in the middle of a map.
i.e. RL spawning next to a banshee, ma5 next to dead marines, PR next to supply crates

[Inferno]

Your drawings are :awesome:
I love those bases too, they have a great style.

[Sever]

Once you get to the phases of interior detailing, I can give you a hand. I'm not too shabby with Forerunner interior spaces.

[rossmum]

Will there be objects and scenery that accompany weapons that are just lying around in the middle of the map? If you don't understand, it just bugs me to see weapons just smack-dab in the middle of a map.
i.e. RL spawning next to a banshee, ma5 next to dead marines, PR next to supply crates
Thanks for reminding me - yes. Weapons will be clustered around supply crates, gun racks, dead bodies, vehicle wrecks, etc. You won't just find them sitting on the ground.

I've started a sort of concept model of the temple structure, it's pretty basic but for now it's just to get the shape fleshed out a little. I'll post pics once I get a little more done.

[Rentafence]

It woud be pretty bad ass if you could work out some aerial battles going on over head while your fighting on the ground, or have some tanks/troops off in the distance duking it out to give a sense of a big battle.

[Hotrod]

Looks great so far, I'm interested to see how this will turn out.

[rossmum]

It woud be pretty bad ass if you could work out some aerial battles going on over head while your fighting on the ground, or have some tanks/troops off in the distance duking it out to give a sense of a big battle.
More than likely the Separatists will have a CCS-class cruiser and a few UNSC frigates off in the skybox a few miles up, so if we can get a few single ships going over every now and then, that'd certainly be an option.

[Rentafence]

I missed something here. The seperatists highjacked some UNSC stuff to use against the Covenant?

[rossmum]

The Separatists are allied with the humans, same as H3. By this point the word would have had time to get around, this is set about the same time as H3 is.

[Inferno]

If you need a MP elite I can send you mine. It's set up for 2 handed and 1 handed weapons. It also has proper custom grenade throw anims.

[Mass]

I'd be happy to contribute some forerunner shit if you're interested.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/nate-the-great_photos/retina12.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/nate-the-great_photos/cliff3.jpg

[rossmum]

Shit yeah.

I'll see if I can work out a basic layout later; so far it's eluded me, but I'd probably best get it done before I add in any more structure designs.

[Mass]

I can make some of those things you already drew

[Bad Waffle]

Hey fag, took you long enough to stop being a post whore and make a map ;P

looking forward to it, ross!

[rossmum]

I can make some of those things you already drew
Awesome stuff man, if/when you need additional pics just let me know. I've also got a really, really basic model of the temple which I've been working with to try and find the best shape, I can send that if you need it.

I'll work on some interior concepts this afternoon.

[DaneO'Roo]

Any map called Schism is a map I'll love.

Count me in brudda. When it's all modelled, I'll paint textures for it.

[FluffyDucky™]

This map will be awesome. :)

[Heathen]

badassmass

[n00b1n8R]

I really don't see how this map's going to be much fun if there's all this space and (since you want it to be so team focused) all the players end up doing is spending 80% of their time just getting to the enemy base and then either all die or grab the flag and possibly cap.

If this map was designed for something like crazy KOTH on the other hand.. that would be monster win.

[Pooky]

I really don't see how this map's going to be much fun if there's all this space and (since you want it to be so team focused) all the players end up doing is spending 80% of their time just getting to the enemy base and then either all die or grab the flag and possibly cap.

If this map was designed for something like crazy KOTH on the other hand.. that would be monster win.

Something like this could be a good chance to implement that new territory control gametype

http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11524

[Bad Waffle]

Ross, i can lend vegetation etc for the map, dunno what else i have time for though.

[n00b1n8R]

Something like this could be a good chance to implement that new territory control gametype

http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11524
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[rossmum]

I really don't see how this map's going to be much fun if there's all this space and (since you want it to be so team focused) all the players end up doing is spending 80% of their time just getting to the enemy base and then either all die or grab the flag and possibly cap.

If this map was designed for something like crazy KOTH on the other hand.. that would be monster win.
That's where level design comes in. There will be multiple paths through the canyons and the plains will be largely open, but certain paths will hold certain advantages and disadvantages. Some you'll be able to fly through, some will only be suitable for small vehicles like Ghosts, but all of them will lead out onto the plains. Given the asymmetrical nature of the map and the fact that the Loyalists hold both the high ground and have a clear line of sight for several hundred metres, that opens up some interesting options. The Loyalists have a good overlook on the approach to their base and can rain down sniper fire and artillery with ease, but that works both ways. In contrast, the Separatists will end up relying on scouts or snipers for forewarning of any incoming attack, and the Loyalists will have to stay alert to avoid ambush.

This isn't a linear map at all, and there's no set battle area like you'd get on BG where typically everything happens at the centre of the map and the only time either base sees any action is during the occasional breakthrough. That's a frontline, but it's in a narrow box canyon. It's literally a line, and it's more or less static. In a map with more varied terrain and some actual options, you can throw down a defensive block right at the near end of one path, and one down the end of the other.

Keep in mind, too, that both sides will have access to dropships, light aircraft, and Ghosts. You probably won't go much longer than a few minutes without seeing some sort of action, which is fairly comparable with some of the existing stock maps.

e/ HOLY SHIT YES, that'd be amazing.

[SnaFuBAR]

ross if you want to send me the model of the AR i'll get started on the custom one tonight.

[Apoc4lypse]

Wow I'm liking this idea... so your aiming for in terms of gameplay and weapon working more realism. Like the shields making it hard to actually damage people, then being completely vulnerable once there gone.

I have a suggestion for gameplay, aside from the planning and such, I'd reccomend having betas, and try to looks for things like where people end up having to walk. (IE ur ship gets shots down and like only one of u survive, and ur in the middle of no where, with no one to fight, its bound to happen on a big map) to counter that figure out what areas this happens in the most, try to either use more cover or enviromental options to fix the problem first, if that doesnt work, then use teleporters.

idk, its probably common sense but just figured I throw that up there.

I'd also love to help with the modeling but I'm not sure what you need, if you'd consider me skilled enough, and how much you would want me doing, I'd be interested in terrain modeling... mostly with detailing though.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7756/waterfallsnsomedetswu7.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waterfallsnsomedetswu7.jpg)http://img171.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

e: http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=321646&postcount=278 put fire bombs in :O

[n00b1n8R]

Any chance the charged PP could disable vehicles like in H3? That would make it an interesting weapon to have around.

[DarkHalo003]

Any chance the charged PP could disable vehicles like in H3? That would make it an interesting weapon to have around.
Yeah, I've always wondered that too. What could cause that effect though, like a massively numbered stun effect?

[n00b1n8R]

The electromagnetic field containing the plasma bolt (to stop it disapating) overloads the circuitry on the vehicle causing it to have to re-start.How's that sound?

[DarkHalo003]

The electromagnetic field containing the plasma bolt (to stop it disapating) overloads the circuitry on the vehicle causing it to have to re-start.How's that sound?
No I'm saying how will that work in CE tagging? I know there is stun feature in CE, so would that have any ability for the Plasma Pistol to stun vehicles?

[Heathen]

I heard it was impossible.

I know with cheat_omnipotent it kills something and you cant get in it, but would that work in any way if you could get it back on?

[rossmum]

I think the location/time might change to bring it into line with H3's story - plus give it a more stunning setting. The map will take place on the Ark. The Elites have landed somewhere else looking for some objective or other, and run headlong into the few of their own kind who are still strung along by the lies of Truth.

I've come up with a (very) early overhead:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/overhead.jpg

1 is the main path, a wide, hilly canyon which all vehicles can fit through. It's also lined with stationary guns and sniper positions set into the rockfaces all the way up its length, with very little cover for any vehicles moving along the ground. Infantry fare a little better, as there may be a downed Scarab at its widest point, slumped against a cliff and providing not only a visual point of interest but also quite good cover during an ambush, a minor resupply position, or a place to simply camp in and report back whether the way is clear or not. This path is the quickest and the easiest in terms of terrain, but also the most dangerous against an organised enemy.

2 is a narrow, rock-strewn side path which dumps you the furthest from the Loyalist base, but in this position you are on its extreme left flank. A Warthog or two through here (the cliffs here overhang the path, so flying vehicles are more hindrance than help) in coordination with a strong push up the centre (actually a very strong feint) can ensure surprise caps while the Loyalists are looking towards the centre - the only remaining problem being that of a safe return.

3 is the moderate path. It's a bit hilly and there are rockslides and small groves of trees here and there, but it's comparatively short. Smaller aircraft and light vehicles can use this path effectively, though dropships and tanks may run into problems. 'T' marks the temple entrance, which leads down to a tunnel (7) under the canyons that, after passing through a large chamber bridging a chasm, ends in a tall spiral ramp; finally putting you out in a small, well-concealed nest in the cliffs. This is an ideal position for snipers or spotters to pick off high-priority targets or report on the strength of base defences. The large mesa that divides this path will probably be replaced with a downed dropship or single ship, creating a fairly major resupply point which the other paths largely lack. Most heavy weaponry will be found here, so any heavy-intensive assault will need to stop by this site.

4 is another flanking path, but its base is so cluttered with rocks, ruins, and vegetation that the only way through is on foot or in a light aircraft.

5 is a tunnel between routes 3 and 4, allowing small aircraft to move easily between the two; light vehicles like Ghosts will also be able to use it to bypass the thickest of the vegetation, though the way will still be rough.

6 is a natural rock arch, allowing free passage between routes 1 and 3.

The structure on the left of the Loyalist base is another Forerunner structure, with the usual above-ground spire but also with a face extending deep into the cliff. Partway down is what can only be described as a hangar; this is where the Loyalist team's aircraft will spawn.

The seaward map border and flight ceiling will, if possible, be enforced by a gameplay mechanic other than invisible walls. Sandtrap's bouncing betty mines are the sort of thing I'm thinking of, except instead of mines, automated AA fire would be the thing to watch out for.

e/

There's definitely room left for some additional Forerunner structures... the 'coffee cup' will be seen somewhere down the Separatist end, and then there's the tunnels, temple interior, hangar, etc. to add.

[Scooby Doo]

i just *SCHISMED* my pants...LOL.

this looks pretty interesting. wish you a bit of work already completed for it rossy boy...


~Scoob

[Sever]

I have to say that I'm actually not impressed with the layout. It doesn't have much depth to it honestly.

I've spent considerable amounts of time examining all of the stock multiplayer maps from all games (and a good deal of custom maps) and I have to say that it lacks centralization and enough interaction between the different paths.

I can help you with getting a good layout that allows you to employ all styles of combat interaction, yet still requires strong player cooperation for success. I've got a few layout ideas of my own floating around that might be worthy. If any of them don't work, I can definitely help brainstorm for more. Hit me up on AIM.

I like having a main path through the middle definitely, but you should try having another path cross over or under that one with infantry-only access between the two. Let me get a quick sketch up.

[rossmum]

That's the reason it's not final - it's not perfect, it was just a quick idea I threw together to try and get a firmer idea of what is and isn't going to fit. If you'd care to make some more specific criticisms, I'd be glad to listen.

e/

Crossing paths would actually really help the vertical feeling on this, although perhaps for more than just infantry (given the scale of the map) - a second 'layer' of bridges and tunnels weaving across the various routes would actually be a really good idea, definitely one to incorporate. Paths will also run intermittently along the faces of the wider canyons.

[SnaFuBAR]

i believe you guys will enjoy the weapon ideas

[Sever]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/sever323/Untitled-34.jpg?t=1226036250

Here's a quick mock-up of something of your similar idea, but with a few instances that I think you should implement. Keep in mind that my sketch is NOT a direct suggestion, as it is a quick draft just containing a few key points.

1. Have multiple layers in the main combat area, using not only raised infantry paths (as you already have aptly planned) but also vehicle paths crossing, or at least sharing the space with the central region.

2. Try and have many of the paths connect to each other at pivotal points to allow more options for forces moving through the map. The ability to shift your whole attacking force from one path to another makes some very interesting gameplay.

3. To counter this, give the defensive team quickly-accessible and strategically viable defensive points in the main combat area around these points, and make sure it has enough access and vantage to the main area to be useful during most situations, but still not enough to be beneficial in all (notice how the defensive hill in my sketch has no view at all on the cliff-edge path bordering the lake, but can see or quickly access almost everything else).

4. Do the same at the defensive line, but be sure not to make it too hard to crack by employing highly covert footpaths and well-thought weapon placement. When making a good defensive base, take a look at those that have been proven to work. Both Last Resort and High Ground are good examples - they work best with a floating, rather than a static defense, due to the fact that they are visually cut off from the rest of the combat areas, but have way too many access points to have one person posted at each.

These are just some quick tips to help with your layout. Take what you will from it. I hope at least one suggestion is of use to you.

[rossmum]

Basically taking the current overhead and making some adjustments so the movement is 'layered' is what I have in mind. Not all paths will be connected directly, but some of the main ones will; others will only connect to specific paths and not the main ones. My idea is to have the ground layer, which is what I have now, and is accessible to vehicles (in most places) and infantry entirely. There is also a middle layer, which spans between the cliffs every here and there, bridging some routes and allowing an overview of others. This will be useful for shifting main attacks or losing pursuers when you have the flag. Then there's also a top layer, made up primarily of the narrow footbridge-like structures seen in Halo, Danger Canyon, Infinity, etc., intended for infantry moving from one overwatch position to the next. All along the length of the main canyon and at some of the wider points in the secondary one (where the temple is), paths will run along the rockface to allow access to various stationary guns and firing positions. The aircraft will, of course, have access to the entire area.

There will be certain points at ground level where caves and so on open from one path to another, but the majority of switching will be done via the bridging tunnels. There will also be a rather large network of small tunnels and natural caverns leading to good sniper and observation positions all around the plain, but they will be accessible only by infantry. The Loyalists hold the advantage of the high ground and a clear line of sight across more or less their entire area, but they have very little cover aside from the base complex itself and a few small defiles or groves of small trees. I want to keep a fairly large number of comparatively narrow paths with towering cliffs criss-crossed by bridges high above so it really exudes that sense of vertigo that only Halo can; however there will be some fairly open areas. While the layout you've got there would be perfect for a standard-sized map about the same dimensions as BG, it strikes me as beeing a little off in terms of proportions and complexity for something closer to the size of several 'normal' maps put together. I do get what you're saying though, and I'll certainly add more ways of crossing from one path to another as that helps the atmosphere I'm aiming for anyway.

[n00b1n8R]

I would love to see some kind of underground root where the heavy tanks like wraiths can get to the eny base to bring their weapons to bear without worrying about all the jets in the sky, It would also protect land based infantry (though make it less appealing for them by making it much longer or something or by putting the exit in a totally exposed area)

It'd also be a nice chance for some graphical secks (underground lakes/rivers/waterfalls and some sexy lighting).

[rossmum]

I had one in mind, but I wasn't too keen on it because then it would basically suck all the combat away from the surface. If you give someone a stealthy, safe way, then they aren't going to take the risky and open one. The other issue was that even if it did get you along the canyons to safety, you're still put out in a very open place. In all honesty you're probably better off taking the open canyons than you are an underground tunnel or cave, because at least you'll have vehicles capable of picking off aircraft around you.

That said, there will be some underground areas for the infantry, in particular under the structures.

[Timo]

Your first suggestion for a layout ross looked like an awesome SP map where you hold out at the Loyalist base while facing a flood onslaught from every side :p

Looks like you're really thinking this through which is awesome, instead of just running in guns blazing like I would. Hopefully it'll end up as a played map instead of a 1 hour gamenight wonder then tossed on the pile D:

[n00b1n8R]

TBH I couldn't see a map that requires teams to work as a whole ever becoming popular in pubs. :/

I don't think ross has pubs in mind for this though.

[Sel]

I dont see any maps other than cmt snowgrove, coldsnap, hugeass, and extinction becoming popular in pubs. :|

[SnaFuBAR]

ross you need to get on aim tonight so i can discuss weapons with you a bit more.

[rossmum]

hi

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/6627/templeextwg5.jpg

has interior

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/templeint.jpg

[TeeKup]

I hope you're not finished, that first structure is INCREDIBLY boring.

[rossmum]

Nope, loads of exterior details that need doing. I just need to work out what half of them are :F

e/ ps that's the same structure

[TeeKup]

Very well. Good luck with this project. I expect to be impressed by your forerunner structures. After all Ross, this IS you we're talking about. :-3

[rossmum]

I lucked out on those concepts duder, I have huge amounts of trouble replicating Forerunner styles :F

Still, I can try

[Mass]

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/bluebase.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/nate-the-great_photos/tower.jpg
yes?
E:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/nate-the-great_photos/tower2.jpg

[SnaFuBAR]

the side details are incredibly boring, and it looks more like 45 45 90 triangle, not this 30 60 90 you have going on.

E: also, everyone is thinking of forerunner shapes moving in one direction, stop that, it's hella boring. get some dynamism in there ffs.

[rossmum]

Actually, keep the 30-60-90, it looks better. The 45-45-90 seems a bit squashed now I look at it again.

[k9colin]

If you are going to use the new territory gametype, here is a suggestion of the locations of the nodes and their web. Basically shows the different routes you can take to capture nodes, and eventually the enemy base.

http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08456/nodes665.png

[n00b1n8R]

I'd suggest there only be one near 2 and have it haflway down the path.

[Corvette19]

Ross, haven't seen you around Halomods lately...
Anyways, that doesn't matter, this project sounds pretty epic.
I read the whole topic, yes, every page, and I saw that you had some trouble getting forrunner done, I do know that user Sasc (http://www.modacity.net/forums/member.php?u=2041) can do it pretty good, and he can model BSP's pretty good. Here (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12668) is an example.
Anyways, If you need some help balancing gameplay, PM me.

[rossmum]

I left HM years ago... kinda miss it, but not sure if I'll go back or not. Not just yet, anyway.

[Reaper Man]

Ross, I'd be willing to start modeling again if you need my help for this map, seeing as I owe you a model or two >_>

[Mass]

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/nate-the-great_photos/emitter.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/nate-the-great_photos/emitter2.jpg

[Sever]

In my opinion, the flat side looks fine, but the tall side needs a larger (wider) base and the fin needs to be taller. If you can give us a side view of it, I might be able to sketch out what I mean better than telling you. It definitely screams "I'm Forerunner!" but it doesn't have an epic quality.

[Mass]

In my opinion, the flat side looks fine, but the tall side needs a larger (wider) base and the fin needs to be taller. If you can give us a side view of it, I might be able to sketch out what I mean better than telling you. It definitely screams "I'm Forerunner!" but it doesn't have an epic quality.
Do you mean the whole rounded section, or just the connection between that and the tower?

[n00b1n8R]

Side. On. View.

[Sever]

I talked to him over aim, noobi, no need to get harsh about it.

[rossmum]

Some sort of fins coming out of the rows of three little blocks by the landward side might look interesting, if you get my drift.

e/ Oh, and the landward tower (if not both) should taper in towards the front. Not drastically, but enough to notice. Check out all the stuff in Halo, the towers all taper. Snaf rages about this, it's important. I do like the shape though, I'd say it just needs those few touchups.

[rossmum]

Project may be a little slow for a few weeks, but it's by no means dead. Real life is fucking my shit up right now.

[SnaFuBAR]

Same here, also, i'm waiting on you ross so we can talk more about guns.

[sevlag]

My question is this:

with the AA gun and BB idea, will that even synch? alot of stuff never synchs between host and client with alot of ideas (see doors that have to be opened via switch).

The map sounds cool and if you DO include spectres remove the boost feature as that always fucks up the vehicle.

OH, and may-bah a Prowler for the loyalists? >.<

other than that this is something I'd play

[rossmum]

There won't be any boost on any of the vehicles. I've yet to see boost in CE that was actually worth using.

As for syncing, pretty much everything should sync perfectly, including the elevators.

[Apoc4lypse]

There won't be any boost on any of the vehicles. I've yet to see boost in CE that was actually worth using.

The good ghost boosts from the origional halo 2 team. I believe there was one version that worked pretty damn good with minimal glitching but I forget :-/

[rossmum]

Boost would be pretty pointless in the less open part of the map anyway, the only place it would serve any purpose would be in the plains and honestly even then it wouldn't be much help.

[rossmum]

goodness gracious me what is this

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/schism1.jpg

[TeeKup]

The Ark petals make me want to kill a kitten. Everything else is quite nice.

[rossmum]

I drew them from memory and it's like 4:30 vOv

Proper Ark will be used ingame, never fear.

[Pooky]

The good ghost boosts from the origional halo 2 team. I believe there was one version that worked pretty damn good with minimal glitching but I forget :-/

Oh you mean the 'flip yourself over' button from the original Halo CE Zanzibar? :downs:

[PopeAK49]

I would help you with making those bases that you had in your concepts but it looks like mass beat me to it. Darn you mass and your awesome forerunner modeling.

[n00b1n8R]

goodness gracious me what is this
No idea. :S

[Ki11a_FTW]

goodness gracious me what is this



This is something that happens to be full of awesomeness and win.

[Inferno]

Hay look a big map...

A bit redundant but if you do it right we could have another huge ass :D

[rossmum]

Hay look a big map...

A bit redundant but if you do it right we could have another huge ass :D
No. Not at all. If this comes off like Hugeass in any way other than being large in terms of mesh area, I will consider myself a failure and not release it. Hugeass's gameplay was horrible, because for all the open space the map had, there was little or no reason to stray more than a kilometre either side of a line running from one base to the other. It was a waste of space and it was only fun when griefing or playing with coordinated teams of intelligent players (read: not pubbies), much like Coldsnap.

[sevlag]

No. Not at all. If this comes off like Hugeass in any way other than being large in terms of mesh area, I will consider myself a failure and not release it. Hugeass's gameplay was horrible, because for all the open space the map had, there was little or no reason to stray more than a kilometre either side of a line running from one base to the other. It was a waste of space and it was only fun when griefing or playing with coordinated teams of intelligent players (read: not pubbies), much like Coldsnap.
true, hugeass=fail...

also, I haven't seen any screens of this map yet. mind showin some updates if its not to much trouble, maybe a small vid of inside the map if possible.

other than that, I can't wait to see this map released as from what you have invisioned for this map, it won't be like hugeass...maybe in size, but not in game play value.

good luck and have fun making it.

[Apoc4lypse]

Tbh, as much shit hugeass catches, its not completely worthless, whered the idea for this map come from?

Simply put hugeass is a good map for inspiration because no one ever did something like it before, Tiamat had some good ideas for it, his vision probably wasn't far from the idea behind this map. A big map, but with purpose and controlled gameplay encouraging teamwork.

I think the problem hugeass suffered was too much energy was spent on the vehicles, hugeass was made back when not many people knew how to make them still.

Also, I'd like to point out that Tiamat obviously wasn't satisfied with the way it played and tried 2 more times (Coldsnap and Coldsnap 2) to get it right.

I just hope you can get it right, I think you have a better chance though because you plan on settleing for less of the unrealistic vehicles.

E: I'd also like to point out that the concept is nice, but reminds me of hugeass with forerunner structures x_x just my opinion.

E2: some comments on your layout ideas, theres some good ideas there, but I'm worried that due to the size of the map, and the seperation of the paths, and if teams do end up working well, as teams, enemies crossing paths within the said canyons will probably end up being unlikely with so many choices that end up isolating you and your team from the rest of the map.

Which brings me to my second observation, teams will tend to always push through the center path because they know once they leave it, the other team will be free to just get a strait shot at there base with little resistance.

Its hard to say, your ideas seem good with the layout, the only way to find out really is to test it.

[English Mobster]

Also, I'd like to point out that Tiamat obviously wasn't satisfied with the way it played and tried 2 more times (Coldsnap and Coldsnap 2) to get it right.
Coldsnap... 2?

[rossmum]

Tbh, as much shit hugeass catches, its not completely worthless, whered the idea for this map come from?
Halo 3, Infinity, and the second level of Halo. No inspiration was drawn from any existing CE maps let alone that monstrosity. http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-nyd.gif


Simply put hugeass is a good map for inspiration because no one ever did something like it before, Tiamat had some good ideas for it, his vision probably wasn't far from the idea behind this map. A big map, but with purpose and controlled gameplay encouraging teamwork.
As I've said before, it was immensely fun when playing with good friends, as was testing Coldsnap; once they went public they lost all their charm and became off-limits except for griefing or massive gatecrashing sessions (i.e. bringing 5+ intelligent people with you to work together) as far as I'm concerned.


E: I'd also like to point out that the concept is nice, but reminds me of hugeass with forerunner structures x_x just my opinion.
Yeah, the plain end is far more open and the same thought did strike me. I'm going to try break it up with considerable amounts of ground cover, small ravines and creeks, ruins, etc. Hugeass would've been a lot better if the ground wasn't so plain, so I certainly don't want to leave it open.


E2: some comments on your layout ideas, theres some good ideas there, but I'm worried that due to the size of the map, and the seperation of the paths, and if teams do end up working well, as teams, enemies crossing paths within the said canyons will probably end up being unlikely with so many choices that end up isolating you and your team from the rest of the map.
Yeah. The map is pretty much designed for organised teams who can work together; I really don't give two fucks about pubbies who think lone-wolfing is the only way to play or teams where there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. The 'organise or die' thing is what I'm going for, with each team ideally dividing into smaller, close-knit units. I had actually thought this map would be great for Modacity gaming sessions, since most of us who have been around a while can work together but have our own clusters of best friends.


Which brings me to my second observation, teams will tend to always push through the center path because they know once they leave it, the other team will be free to just get a strait shot at there base with little resistance.
The centre path isn't really the be-all and end-all it might seem. It's the largest and most heavily defended, and while open to all vehicles, it's still a death-trap for many of them. The flank paths and sniper roosts are the less obvious option for an assault or blocking manoeuvre but far stronger, in theory at least.


Its hard to say, your ideas seem good with the layout, the only way to find out really is to test it.
That'll be the fun part. :D

Sev - no screens or videos because I've just moved, my internet is up and down constantly, and I've been spending most of my time either looking after my grandmother or visiting my parents. At any rate I don't have the talent to make a decent-looking map yet, hence focusing on concepts before I even think of anything else. This probably won't be released before the middle of this year, and it may even be later, but I fully intend to complete it no matter what.

[sevlag]

Sev - no screens or videos because I've just moved, my internet is up and down constantly, and I've been spending most of my time either looking after my grandmother or visiting my parents. At any rate I don't have the talent to make a decent-looking map yet, hence focusing on concepts before I even think of anything else. This probably won't be released before the middle of this year, and it may even be later, but I fully intend to complete it no matter what.ok, not gonna harass you on the stuff, but i'll wait till it comes out

also, wasn't coldsnap hugesnap or something like that, a spring time version? or was that the one where you could use the base teleporters as two way which created spawn camping issues galore

[Warsaw]

Lol, Ross, you used the idea for the sight aperture on the MA5C from my AM2C (MA2C) pulse rifle...nice.

Map looks awesome so far. I'll have to reinstall CE to play it once it gets done.

[rossmum]

Actually I'd forgotten all about that one, Snaf and I were trying to get a sight without ruining the AR's distinctive silhouette. Now you mention it, I was planning to redo that model at some point...

Update on the project - my mate Dave is really wanting to get into mpping for Halo so as well as being a learning experience for me, I'm going to ask him if he wants in. As far as my mapping goes, I'm going to try get some more of the temple entrance done. So far it's looking pretty plain to me, and compared to Mass's structures it really doesn't look remarkable at all and that just won't do.

[rossmum]

this isn't dead (much unlike my internet)

Seems like Murphy's Law has taken effect with vengeance, but I'm not really discouraged from continuing. I got rootkitted (at FPSB, of all places) and lost some minor stuff, but most of it's alright (the only Schism-related losses were chatlogs of my brainstorming sessions with Snaf, but most of the concrete ideas have since been taken further anyway). My net is up and down constantly and I've yet to reinstall 3DS, but in the meantime I'll see about getting some more concepts drawn up. The fact that a friend got me Stalker for Christmas hasn't really been helping, but I'm temporarily stuck and close to the end of the game, as far as I can tell.

[Sel]

I stole ur base

[rossmum]

I stole ur base
bastard

[rossmum]

hi,

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/ma5kcopy.jpg

Looking at CMT's and then at the cover of Ghosts of Onyx, I noticed just how overboard they'd gone (no offence meant, but let's be honest, it bears only a passing resemblance); as far as Snaf and I could tell, the MA5K was no more than a cut-down AR mated to a BR handle and forend (though an AR fore would work as well, the BR one is less bulky and therefore the more sensible choice). The cocking handle would have to be moved to avoid it coming back and shattering the shooter's cheekbone (I want reciprocating handles on the human autos because it looks more interesting if something actually moves), and Snaf immediately suggested a G36 system, which I think works quite well with the 'no space wasted' design philosophy.

Basically, the MA5K can be expected to handle a lot like its bigger brother (again, much unlike CMT's). There will be differences though - a slightly weaker melee and decreased accuracy and control offset by less of an impact on mobility, a slightly upped rate of fire, and the various attachments which may or may not make it onto the rifle (ideally you'd perhaps see a group of four or five guys armed with them, with all different attachments or lack thereof). It'll also be louder, for obvious reasons.

[Mass]

bastard
you can still use it, plus it's textured too.

[rossmum]

Do show. I saw an untextured render in the other thread, haven't seen the textures on it though.

[Hunter]

hi,

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/ma5kcopy.jpg

Looking at CMT's and then at the over of Ghosts of Onyx, I noticed just how overboard they'd gone (no offence meant, but let's be honest, it bears only a passing resemblance); as far as Snaf and I could tell, the MA5K was no more than a cut-down AR mated to a BR handle and forend (though an AR fore would work as well, the BR one is less bulky and therefore the more sensible choice). The cocking handle would have to be moved to avoid it coming back and shattering the shooter's cheekbone (I want reciprocating handles on the human autos because it looks more interesting if something actually moves), and Snaf immediately suggested a G36 system, which I think works quite well with the 'no space wasted' design philosophy.

Basically, the MA5K can be expected to handle a lot like its bigger brother (again, much unlike CMT's). There will be differences though - a slightly weaker melee and decreased accuracy and control offset by less of an impact on mobility, a slightly upped rate of fire, and the various attachments which may or may not make it onto the rifle (ideally you'd perhaps see a group of four or five guys armed with them, with all different attachments or lack thereof). It'll also be louder, for obvious reasons.

Could I model this design when I have time?

[Warsaw]

We already had a discussion about this gun...

Concept is good, drawing is not :v:. I can make a cleaner, more proportional concept of it if you want.

[rossmum]

It's squashed lengthwise, I know. That's what comes of drawing when I'm half asleep.

You guys can give it a shot if you want, I'll probably redraw and model it myself at some point.

[Hunter]

Could you post the final drawing when finished?

The only part I woudl strugle modelling is the part above the grip, I am guessing the heat emitter. Unless you want it like the normal BR?

[rossmum]

It's identical to the AR, it's just the bit with the two vents in either side. I forgot to draw in the step-down in width below the holes though.

[Sel]

you can still use it, plus it's textured too.

Hook me up bro, gotta do lights.

[ICEE]

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/ma5kcopy.jpg



I'd animate it

[rossmum]

Just a brief notice - this shit ain't dead. Unfortunately what with the new PC thing and with everyone else busy with other projects, there's not much to show; however Snaf and I have been toying with some more ideas and if it wasn't for my absolutely infuriatingly frustrating inability to take the images in my mind and put them into a form people could actually look at themselves without fucking them up, I'd be showing more ideas for various areas of the map.

As usual I've gone for broke in the idea department with little care for gameplay, engine limitations, time constraints or praciticality in general, but I've actually spent a considerable amount of brain idle-time working out ways of getting around some of those problems. Don't expect anything soon, but expect something good. When it comes to actually finishing something, I'm a perfectionist.

[n00b1n8R]

This map will never be finished, but I'll keep posting "updates" with little to no real content none the less for the next year or so.
FTFY
Prove me wrong. :realsmug:

[rossmum]

Why thank you for your kind offer to help us complete the project! Surely this will mean it'll be ready for release far sooner!

[n00b1n8R]

You didn't ask for help. :downs:
I can use the spray can in MS paint really well and I can extrude boxes like a motha fucka in Gmax and I rolled a 12 for my pen and paper skillz, so what do you want me to do?

[k9colin]

You didn't ask for help. :downs:
I can use the spray can in MS paint really well and I can extrude boxes like a motha fucka in Gmax and I rolled a 12 for my pen and paper skillz, so what do you want me to do?
Erm, well he did kinda state it quite clearly in the first paragraph of the first post of the first page. So commenting about the project never being done isn't helping anyone, and I'm sure it is quite obvious enough that he requires it, so saying "prove you wrong" and "this project will never get done" is rather unnecessary. :raise:

[rossmum]

This entire project is probably going to another engine, as I have neither the patience nor the temper to deal with the kind of righteous retards who will undoubtedly try and threaten or harass me to release tags (I was going to protect the map). I'm not going to create any content for CE, end of; I'm not putting my hard work into something only for some talentless shitbag to rip it, claim it as their own, then slag me off for trying to keep my work safe. The fact I've seen my shitty old M16A1 in various horrible maps is enough to confirm this for me, since I released one open beta on GBX.

Not sure what engine to move it to; Source is still a very good option and I'm getting pretty good with Hammer displacements (if nothing else), which would mean I could actually do some of the terrain work myself without help (and therefore shit might get done more often than once every six months), but it also means serious downsizing due to the limits imposed by Hammer's grid. I guess UT3 might be an option, but I wouldn't know as I don't have it. I'm open to ideas. The stronger the engine's map protection, the fucking better.

And no, this isn't dead. It's on hold for now. I have more important things to worry about, like getting through Kapooka and then getting some unrelated stuff done for GMod.

e/ Yes, I am aware of the irony, since this was originally meant to help revive CE. You know what, though? It's got to the point where I'm at a loss to justify doing so. Let's just honour its memory somewhere else http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-unsmith.gif

[n00b1n8R]

Source is all opensource iirc :raise:

(I think that's a good thing but vOv)

[rossmum]

Yeah, but people generally aren't thieving fuckwits in the Source modding scene.

[n00b1n8R]

Your choice vOv
Don't see the appeal of closed sourcing in any modding community but that's just me lol

[rossmum]

I see the appeal of not having lazy shits who have no talent of their own, nor any interest in developing some, steal my work and put it in their shitty maps.

[n00b1n8R]

Your work which isn't your property anymore and you've distributed for free and they are using in their map to gain nothing except possibly a slightly bigger e-peen in a community you don't care about vOv

I mean, you have nothing to gain by doing anything in this community other than personal satisfaction. I for one, would feel rather good about myself if somebody else wanted to use my work in their own maps vOv

E: Take this to PM's or something, I don't wana shit on this thread tbh

[Dwood]

Too late now.

[mech]

Your work which isn't your property anymore and you've distributed for free and they are using in their map to gain nothing except possibly a slightly bigger e-peen in a community you don't care about vOv

I mean, you have nothing to gain by doing anything in this community other than personal satisfaction. I for one, would feel rather good about myself if somebody else wanted to use my work in their own maps vOv

E: Take this to PM's or something, I don't wana shit on this thread tbh


I'm with Ross here, if some faggot took my mod and it's assets and made some shitty crysis jungle map, I'd be pissed. Not only would it be illegal for them to do that ( we have the right to the battle tech intellectual property), it'd also be fucking gay.

[sleepy1212]

old argument is old...just make the fucking map already.

[jcap]

I really don't understand what the problem is. You don't want to make a map because you are worried someone is going to rip from it? And even though you would use protection, you still think that it is more likely to happen with Halo than with another engine type that has no protection?

Harassment is also a non-issue. There's maybe two fuckwits in the Halo community who actually care about protected assets. Ignore them. We've done it since HEK+ was released.

The HEK+'s protection sucks. You'd need to talk to Shadow about his.

Also, Source sucks. Shitty engine. Use Unreal with a better lighting engine.

[rossmum]

Your work which isn't your property anymore and you've distributed for free and they are using in their map to gain nothing except possibly a slightly bigger e-peen in a community you don't care about vOv

I mean, you have nothing to gain by doing anything in this community other than personal satisfaction. I for one, would feel rather good about myself if somebody else wanted to use my work in their own maps vOv

E: Take this to PM's or something, I don't wana shit on this thread tbh
They're still piggybacking off my efforts, and shit on the thread all you like. It's actually the topic at hand at the moment, so I don't see why you shouldn't. Yes, it's technically not copyright by me or anything like that, and yes, it's probably going to go into a community I give no fuck about. But you know what? I put the effort in. I did the hard work. It absolutely incenses me when somebody takes my hard work, calls it their own, and then gets any kind of benefit out of that.

jcrap - Source has a certain level of protection for the map itself, from what I recall (they rip with a lot of errors), but in any case the Source community is a lot better overall than the CE one. I don't recall seeing anyone nick another mod's content and when people don't credit things on places like FPSB or wherever, they usually get ripped a new one by everyone rather than a band of merry morons rallying behind them. In any case the CE engine is dated as hell and between that and the general lack of life, I don't know if anything could revive it.

And (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Fzj7-0vNQ) there's (http://www.littlelostpoly.co.uk/devblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lighthouse_002.jpg) nothing (http://www.littlelostpoly.co.uk/devblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/seasky.jpg) wrong (http://www.littlelostpoly.co.uk/devblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/detailimprovements.jpg) with (http://www.littlelostpoly.co.uk/devblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lighthouse_000.jpg) Source (http://www.littlelostpoly.co.uk/devblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lighthouse_001.jpg) (except the aforementioned grid problem).

[DrunkenSamus]

I thought this thread was about the song from Tool...

[rossmum]

Thanks for telling us that. I'm glad I learned something new today.

http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-psyduck.gif

[rossmum]

Is anyone keen to actually make this shit happen? I can't see it going down in CE due to the obvious surplus of ambition inherent in pretty much any given idea I come up with, but some kind of Source or UT mod seems a lot more feasible - though we may or may not be able to use the existing base mesh that Mass made, I have no idea how UDK works and I know Source doesn't like meshes that large (especially lighting-wise). The plus side is that I am at least vaguely competent in Hammer - well, insofar as basic brushwork and displacements go.

Since most of us have moved on to other engines, seems we might have a decent shot at it now.

[Rentafence]

See Neuro's thread.

[rossmum]

That's more of a new game type deal than this, I dunno how willing he/everyone else would be to make this the big project