I'm sorry, but what the hell.

[TeeKup]

Thousands in L.A. protest gay-marriage ban
Questions arise over 18,000 same-sex marriages already performed in Calif.


LOS ANGELES - Outside the gates of a Mormon temple, Kai Cross joined more than 2,000 gay-rights advocates in a chorus of criticism of the church's role in a new statewide ban on same-sex marriage.

Once a devout Mormon who graduated from Brigham Young University, the 41-year-old Cross was disowned by his family and his church after he was outed as a gay man in 2001.

"They are on the losing side of history," Cross said Thursday of the church's opposition to gay marriage. Cross and other protesters blame leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for encouraging Mormons to funnel millions of dollars into television ads and mailings in favor of Proposition 8.

The ballot measure passed Tuesday, which was sponsored by a coalition of religious and social conservative groups, amends the California Constitution to define marriage as a heterosexual act. It overrides a state Supreme Court ruling that briefly gave same-sex couples the right to wed.

The protest came amid questions about whether attempts to overturn the prohibition can succeed and whether the 18,000 same-sex marriages performed in California over the past four months are in any danger.

For Cody Krebs, 27, four months was not enough time to fulfill his "intense hope" to marry one day; he and his boyfriend have been together for little more than a year, so they aren't ready to wed.

On Thursday, Krebs dodged eggs hurled at protesters from an apartment building. He said he'd seen worse growing up in Salt Lake City.

"It's important to come out like this because it gets the gay community into the public eye," Krebs said. "I feel like this has started a lot of conversations that had to get started."

Demonstration spreads
The demonstration began outside the temple in the Westwood section of Los Angeles and noisily spilled through the western side of the city, with chants of "Separate church and state" and "What do we want? Equal rights." Some protesters waved signs saying "No on H8" or "I didn't vote against your marriage," and many equated the issue with the civil rights struggle.

Two people were arrested after a confrontation between the crowd and an occupant of a pickup truck that had a banner supporting Proposition 8. One demonstrator ended up with a bloody nose in the fracas. Seven arrests occurred during Los Angeles-area street marches late Wednesday.

The temple protest was organized by the L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center. Its chief executive, Lorri Jean, announced a Web-based effort dubbed InvalidateProp8.org to raise money to fight the constitutional amendment.

Court challenges filed
Gay-marriage proponents filed three court challenges Wednesday against the ban. The lawsuits raise a rare legal argument: that the ballot measure was actually a dramatic revision of the California Constitution rather than a simple amendment. A constitutional revision must first pass the Legislature before going to the voters.

Andrew Pugno, attorney for the groups that sponsored the amendment, called the lawsuits "frivolous and regrettable."

"It is time that the opponents of traditional marriage respect the voters' decision," he said.

The high court has not said when it will act. State officials said the ban on gay marriage took effect the morning after the election.

"We don't consider it a `Hail Mary' at all," said Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights. "You simply can't so something like this — take away a fundamental right at the ballot."

How very revolting. I want to hear some opinions; intelligent and well thought out opinions. I want this to be a debate. Please keep it civil.

For those of you who need some bit of enlightenment watch this man.
hnHyy8gkNEE

I'll be watching this thread with the eyes of a hawk, If I see any hint of derailment, slandering, mudslinging etc. I'll have Timo or Atty in here faster than you can blink.

[jngrow]

Wat are ya gonna do, when assholes from out of town come in and fuck shit up? Hopefully CA Supreme Court will say "No, fuck you, gay marriage is still O.K." for a second time.

Don't want your kids to learn about the real world, equal rights, or the fucking law? Move somewhere else. This is California bitch.

"Protecting traditional marriage"? What the fuck does the even mean? Nothing happens to it if gay people get married. If you want to "protect the definition of marriage", just say that YOU think it's between a man and a woman. And who the fuck gives a shit about the definition of something? Nobody, that's who. It's just a twisted, bull shit way of saying "it's against my religion".

[Rob Oplawar]

My son, a lot of people have wondered what my stance on homosexuality is, so I'd like to state once and for all my true opinion. You see-

That's all the time we have for Jesus and Pals, now stay tuned for Marty's Movie Reviews!

[Heathen]

I love his comparisons to race. Its a good way to show how ignorant people are being.

Whats that thing about history repeating itself?

Also, I started this teek tangent.

[Ifafudafi]

I could spend all day arguing for either case, but at the end of the day, it's nearly impossible to change somebody's mind, particularly when religion is involved. Do I think the Californian government has the right to ban gay marriages? No. Can I convince anyone who believes otherwise of that? Hell no.

I'm glad that people are protesting in the streets. If this many people believe that their rights are being infringed, I'm all for it, whether I agree with them or not. Now, if they were the ones chucking eggs at people, that would be a different story.

As for the guys who want to prohibit the act, well, I'd say "fuck you," but I doubt that would make a difference. Their religion and moral beliefs tell them that people of the same sex shouldn't get married. That's fine; everyone's entitled to their beliefs, religious or otherwise. But when you start taking it to court, it (in religion's case) devolves us one step further to the church+state=government system we tried so hard to abolish. Think of it this way: The major religion in the state discourages heterosexual couples from getting married, but the state's current law allows it. Then, homosexual people decide to outlaw heterosexual marriages. That means Phil and Sally can't get married now because one group decided that the alignment of reproductive organs & hormone types determines who gets married.


The way I see this whole gay thing is simple. Marriage is a (theoretically) lifelong bond between two individuals who cherish each other beyond simple friendship; a promise to support, care for, and love each other for the rest of their lives, no matter whether you can make babies. As such, I don't care who gets married to who; as legal citizens of the United States, they have every right under the law to do as they wish. Just don't let me catch you making out in my backyard or I'll chase you with a fiery stick, gay couple or not.

Now don't expect me to say anything more about this other than clarification by request.

[Con]

I'm for gay marriage, and correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the church decide what goes on inside its doors? It's their building, their beliefs, and their religion. I don't see what all the fuss is over churches and religion. If sames-sex couples want to get married, there are plenty of other places and ways to get married without using a church.

[p0lar_bear]

But when you start taking it to court, it (in religion's case) devolves us one step further to the church+state=government system we tried so hard to abolish.

^this.

Really, my policies on gays and lesbians has always been that I can't really say I support it, but I'm not one to chastise it. It's not my problem, I don't want it to be my problem, and for fuck's sake, don't make it my problem.

I'm not going to lie; openly gay people are a turn-off to me and it makes me feel out of place when I'm around one. However, I've worked with a number of those types in the past (Teekup not included), and they're not bad people. But like I said, I can't see myself hanging out with them outside of the workplace since it's not my kind of crowd, and it's more of a problem with myself; I get the same feeling around people who get smashed/high, talk mainly about cars or sports, etc.

[rossmum]

I find it fucking ridiculous that some of the more arrogant Americans prance about shoving their 'freedom' in everyone else's faces, when they actually clearly don't have much of it to speak of. So much for separation of church and state.

The evangelist fucks who like to ram their own warped views down everyone else's throats really need to fuck off and leave lawmaking to those who are both competent and level-headed. As far as I'm concerned, they're the Christian version of groups like the Taliban and the fact their views actually count for anything let alone enough to outlaw things they simply don't like is absolutely disgusting.

[kenney001]

1: I am morally against gay's and gay marriage
2: I have no problem with the individuals themselves unless they flaunt it in my face or pretend to be gay for attention
3: It's like abortion: It may be considered wrong or immoral, but in the end it is not the governments choice to say yes or no, its the mother.
4: It is the churches decision to allow them to have a wedding ceremony within its doors, not the governments. Gay couples should have the right to do what they do, and have a LEGAL marriage, not necessarily a religious one.

[rossmum]

Yeah, and at the moment they don't have either.

[Timo]

They should have the freedom to marry if they want to, just because someone else religion says they can't should be irrelevant. I also can understand some churches not having gay marriages inside their doors, because it's their choice too.

[Bodzilla]

blood is blood, flesh is flesh and love is love.

any other distinction is utterly insignificant.

[p0lar_bear]

Yeah, what the fuck is marriage nowadays anyway? Two people say "I do," sign some papers, and spend a few hundred thousand on one single day?

What's the difference between blowing your credit card's limit on shit at Best Buy and a modern wedding?

NOTHING! :haw:

[Phobias]

What's the difference between blowing your credit card's limit on shit at Best Buy and a modern wedding?



The sex afterwards.

[Bad Waffle]

The sex afterwards.

Are you sure about that? :pervert:

[Phopojijo]

1: I am morally against gay's and gay marriage
2: I have no problem with the individuals themselves unless they flaunt it in my face or pretend to be gay for attention
3: It's like abortion: It may be considered wrong or immoral, but in the end it is not the governments choice to say yes or no, its the mother.
4: It is the churches decision to allow them to have a wedding ceremony within its doors, not the governments. Gay couples should have the right to do what they do, and have a LEGAL marriage, not necessarily a religious one.My opinions are exactly the same as this -- if you remove the first point. I have nothing against gay marriage and do not understand why the Church does either. But it's their (the church's) choice to make not to do it... in spite of it actually being an issue between the couple and God...

Also in order to get on my nerves with #2 they REALLY need to be excessive.

Basically I have nothing against Gays or Gay marriage... and if they want to, that's between them and God, and/or them and the Government... anyone attempting to put laws between Gays and their Government is simply a shit disturber in my opinion, because it shouldn't even involve them.

And please, don't mock "shit disturber"... this thread is already borderline enough.

[Rob Oplawar]

Gay couples should have the right to do what they do, and have a LEGAL marriage, not necessarily a religious one.
THIS this this this this.

[ICEE]

Here's a little fact that some people don't know:

It is not illegal for two gay men to have a ceremony, buy the rings, say "I do" and then take a sex filled week long honeymoon. The government is not going to step in and slap their hands.

What actually is illegal, is for those two gay men to get their marriage LICENSE. They can have the meaningful part, but they cannot get their marriage recognized by the government.

What does this mean? It means that they aren't entitled to the legal benefits of marriage (financial benefits, separation of possessions at divorce, all that good noise).

A lot of people don't realize this and live their lives thinking they can't get married, when they can. They just can't get the government to accept that they are married. To me, this is an extreme injustice. Denying people the rights that the average married couple gets is just wrong. Gay people can feel love for each other the same as straight people, and so there is literally nothing the government can do to keep them from getting spiritually married to each other, which to me makes it pointless to not allow them the right to legalize their marriage. Religion should have absolutely nothing to do with it.

However I doubt that you can force a church to marry you if it is entirely against that church's practices... but then just have your marriage at home. Whats the government going to do? send in the national guard? I don't think so.


Because you guys tend to TL;DR my posts and totally misunderstand: I am NOT against gay marriage and I believe that gays should have the same legal recognition as straights.

[n00b1n8R]

What if they want the government to recognise their union?

Their not protesting the church for not allowing them to get married religiously, their protesting the church for spreading propaganda and drivel into the media where the gulable populace will slurp it up along with the rest of the shit out there and then bitch to the government to remove their rights to the same privileges heterosexual couples get under the law.

[DaneO'Roo]

What I don't understand is why they even need to be married in the first place. Seems a tad odd.



Seems more like a push for the "Gay Marriage Prenuptial Agreement" to me. That or attention seeking and wanting to wave their wedding bands in everyones faces.

Why the urge to marry, period. Seems to me like they just want the legal rights to take half the other persons shit when shitcake hits the ceiling.

Some may call that a double standard.


ahhaahahahahahaahahaha


Fuck the marriage, if your 'love' is pure enough, it makes no fucking difference. Gay or not. I really don't see the point, other than having it as a legal safety net.

e*whoa whoa whoa, people think that the legal side of marriage is something to be appreciated?

What the fuck??

I personally like to think of marriage as a tradition, rather than something you do to make love happen. When you change the rules of one tradition, people start wanting to change other stuff too. When does it stop? Wheres the compromise?




Heres my big point, take it as you will:


Man and woman is the natural intended thing. The vagina exists to be poked by the penis, correct?

Then it's assumed that when a majority of men like women, it's more of a natural hard coding, no sexual thought is really needed to be thought over, purely who I want to raise our children with, who will be a good mother to the children.

So I say this:

When a man wants another man, or a woman wants another woman, isn't there a sexual guidline?
Do they not have to conform to they're sexual needs, since in fact, the whole difference between a man and a woman is infact, the sexual organs? At the end of the day, say what you want about love, but the end result is the sex. This is why they're attracted to the same gender in the first place. Why not a woman? Why not a fucking seahorse? What if it's a really nice seahorse, or a really nice friendly woman?

Because it's all about the end result of sex. And an opposite or an animal, may not suit that need.

As I said, this is not a double standard, because a man liking a woman is purely intended by our anatomy.


That being said, I am in no way shape or form against gay people or anything like that.

I just don't understand why the "love" needs to be sanctioned when the grounds of the marriage are purely sexual and legal.

There I said it, k? K.

[mech]

Marriage in the United States offers benefits and gay couples want these benefits or else it wouldn't be an issue.

[FluffyDucky™]

Why is it anyone's business? And who cares what other people want in life? Everyone is different... do we go sticking our noses into why people prefer a big house to a small house or a Ferrari to a cheap shit box of a car and etc, the list could go on. But as soon as its got to do with sexual relationships between girl/guy, girl/girl, guy/guy then the whole world MUST have a say. It's fucking pathetic.

I have nothing against gay marriage, it doesn't involve me, doesn't effect me and especially is none of my business. The only way something like this can effect someone is by making it effect you, we live in a world where in society it is pretty much excepted that there are gay people. Everyone knows there are gay people, everyone sees gay people, there have been shows about gay people or that involve gay people, there are even famous people that are gay and are married (some that are not).

I don't see why people waste their time in making an issue out of something that does not involve them at all. The biggest problem interfering with the gay community is the Church and religious fanatics and homophobes. The Churches' reasons are blindingly obvious, as it's not something that "god" or "jesus" wanted life to evolve around. In my opinion is ridiculous, I'm believe in god and a place after you die but I'm not a fanatic.

As for the homophobes, there's pretty much one statement to some them up (no offense to any of you who are one of those ignorant people >_>), which has also appeared on many T-Shirts as a slogan; Homophobia is Gay. If you run around getting "freaked out" or "disgusted" by seeing gay people holding hands or kissing, then you need some serious social adjustment. It is virtually normal to see that ANYWHERE that it has become normal itself to be gay. I would not turn gay, or think about another man penetrating me in places I don't want to be penetrated, but as it does not involve me and will never directly involve me then it is none of my business and for the people who like that, good on them and let them be.

/omgexplosion :gonk:

[Timo]

What I don't understand is why they even need to be married in the first place. Seems a tad odd.



Seems more like a push for the "Gay Marriage Prenuptial Agreement" to me. That or attention seeking and wanting to wave their wedding bands in everyones faces.

Why the urge to marry, period. Seems to me like they just want the legal rights to take half the other persons shit when shitcake hits the ceiling.

Some may call that a double standard.


ahhaahahahahahaahahaha


Fuck the marriage, if your 'love' is pure enough, it makes no fucking difference. Gay or not. I really don't see the point, other than having it as a legal safety net.

e*whoa whoa whoa, people think that the legal side of marriage is something to be appreciated?

What the fuck??
Regardless of the fact that you don't think marriage should matter that much, don't you think that they should have the right to choose either way?

[DaneO'Roo]

I think they should create they're own dam system of marriage, because straight and gay marriage don't fall under the same spectrum to me. Having a separate tradition and a separate system I think would cause less fucking fuss about it.

[Bodzilla]

Danes a little negative on alot of these things....
Worst in people rather then the best or potential.

[FluffyDucky™]

I was actually thinking along the same lines dane. :)

[p0lar_bear]

Hmm, Dane brings up a good point, actually. While having a ceremony doesn't matter at all, what does matter is the post-wedding legal bullcrap.

I don't know what to think of that tbqh. If gays are making a fuss about legalized gay marriage because they want benefits, then what the hell? While the churches are wrong to push for a governmental ban on gay marriage (because of the seperation of Church and State ideal), the homosexual crowd is just as wrong to make a big deal out of benefits.

Ugh, legalities, legalities, legalities. Enough to make anyone's head spin. Just what benefits do married couples get anyway?

[Rob Oplawar]

My theory (since I am not gay I can't say I know the issue that well) is that it's a perceptual thing. That is, I think gay people are fed up with it being perceived as wrong for them to be gay, and so they're seeking the support of this government which claims equality for all men and women, and they get angry (and have every right to get angry) when the government refuses to give this support.

It's not that they're this angry just for being denied the few small legal benefits of marriage; they're this angry because instead of saying "Hey guys, we're all equals here" the government is backing out and effectively saying "No, we're not equals in this case." I think it's extremely hypocritical of us to specifically deny those rights when requested.

Teek, tell me if I'm anywhere near target on this one.

[Jelly]

I take the same stance as sXephil on YouTube: Is gay marriage in some way affecting your marriage? Does it impinge upon your rights? No? So shut up.

[t3h m00kz]

If two people love each other they should be able to do that kind of shit

I've always wondered what it all would be like if we all grew up in a society that didn't show any distinction between the two, and how much different everyone's morals would be today.

Like, a society where you go to school and half of them are gay, half of them are straight, and everybody's okay with it, and nobody cares because there's no moral written down anywhere about it being wrong.

[legionaire45]

I personally believe that, in the government's view, a heterosexual civil union and a homosexual civil union should be equivalent. In fact, I think that there shouldn't be separate types of civil unions; a civil union should just be a civil union, gay/lesbian or not.

Marriage? That should stay in the realm of religion.

[Zeph]

The thing that irritates me the most about this whole thing is the mormons. They of all people should appreciate, value, and understand states rights.

[Zeph]

And on top of that that all marriage is to the government is a tax status.

[Cortexian]

I honestly don't see how people can have a problem with gay/lesbian marriages. I'm straight and I don't know any immediate friends or family that are gay/lesbian, but I don't look at gay/lesbian couples any differently than straight couples. The only thing I can POSSIBLY think of that negatively effect gay/lesbian couples is the fact that you cannot naturally procreate to carry on life. Even that one fact doesn't bother me, the percentage of straight relationships heavily outweighs gay and lesbian ones at the moment, and a bunch of people have more than one child... If loving someone of the same sex makes them happy, I say go for it.

[FluffyDucky™]

:) Nicely said. Also, I have immediate friends and family members that are gay and in relationships so I guess I am more accustomed to it then others.

[armoman92]

not this discussion again... last time's ferociousness still scares me.

still, is kinda fuked up that hey are questioning the same-sex unions now, ex post facto.

BUT i think none of this is really that important with respect to the economic crisis on our countries hands, politicians should focus on it b4 anything else.

[FluffyDucky™]

I'm pretty sure that it was pointless to bring up the current economic state in a thread about gay marriage. We are voicing our opinions, not rioting for politicians to attempt to change the ways of the church. And to many people this may be more important than the economic crisis, so like... yeah. :)

[DaneO'Roo]

I think what gives you guys a bad name, is that most gay guys are as slutty as the girls they pretend to be.

This is really general, but doesn't anybody find it ironic that a good amount of gay people are openly patriotic about their sexual gender, yet, they actually have the traits of someone from the opposite sex, the sex they apparently don't have sexual feeling for?

It's like as if they act like the opposite sex, to appeal to their same sex equivalent, who likes them, based on their opposite sex characteristics?

I'm fucking confused. So to help myself deal with it logically, I drew a quick comic:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/53/29940334mc0.jpg

I still don't get it. Teekup help me I'm confused :gonk:

[FluffyDucky™]

Gay people would not refuse going shopping with a women. They would jump to the idea, which is what the typical stereotype is. Also dane, gay people are accustomed to have more feminine characteristics, pretty much because of what you said. They like the same sex, so they adopt the characteristics of the "normal" men loving human beings (being women) to better suit themselves. It is hard to explain. so when Teekup gets back, lets see what he has to say. :)

[DaneO'Roo]

That reminds me, ED is good for a chuckle:

Homosexuality is a fetish/mental illness (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Mental_illness) in which the sufferer is overcome by sexual feelings for others of the same sex. This neurological disorder is most commonly caused when the afflicted subject has such deep resentment for a dominating parent of the opposite sex that all members of that sex become repulsive by association. In some rarer cases, the cause is a generalized reaction against normalcy, triggered by a negative response to the thought of healthy adult relations.

Homosexuality is positively correlated with the mental disorder pedophilia (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Pedophilia), and all are prone to molesting children (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Children). Their purported attraction to members of the same sex is a misguided exercise in the search for an alternative to normal sexual relationships. The subjects are also inherently self-hating (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Perez_Hilton) and intellectually dishonest (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Smugfag) in their quest to achieve an ostensible popular acceptance. The homosexual who does not seek treatment is aware of his/her illness and must be in a state of constant denial, often convincing others of their sanity with smoke and mirror tactics (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Lies). All in all, gays are an important and contributing part of modern society.


Homosexuality was devised by Hitler (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Hitler) as the Economical Solution (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Final_Solution) to the Jewish (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Jew) Question, comprehensively limiting Zionist reproductive abilities at minimal expense. The plan failed (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Fail) horribly when the disease struck the general population,even Hitler's own son(Conrad Ankers) shaming Hitler into committing suicide as the Nazi Party (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/KKK) adopted Plan B (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Holocaust).
With the advent of Homosexuality, thousands (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Over_9000) of years of peace (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Butthurt) and prosperity (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Fail) came to an abrupt end, and the disease continues to spread at an alarming rate.

Lmao, those guys know how to troll.

[Dwood]

I would just like to say that this whole thing (as polar bears said) is all about legalities.

The people in California voted on the topic. They said governmental recognition of a Homosexual is not going to be allowed.

I say just leave the topic alone, not like there's anything limiting them from doing their "stuff" with their partner at home and in quiet. (Homo's are so much louder on these topics than Straights)

Eventually i bet people will come to accept Homosexuality, let society decide when it's okay, not the government because issues fighting for the recognition by the government through the courts create more social problems than they solve.
If it truly mattered to them, the Homosexuals in the protests etc would be there convincing people it's okay for them to be married.

For the moment, as the Homo's continue with their attitude (I see more bigotry in this whole thing on the Homo side than the church side) I say let the laws stand.

[TeeKup]

I think what gives you guys a bad name, is that most gay guys are as slutty as the girls they pretend to be.

This is really general, but doesn't anybody find it ironic that a good amount of gay people are openly patriotic about their sexual gender, yet, they actually have the traits of someone from the opposite sex, the sex they apparently don't have sexual feeling for?

It's like as if they act like the opposite sex, to appeal to their same sex equivalent, who likes them, based on their opposite sex characteristics?

I'm fucking confused. So to help myself deal with it logically, I drew a quick comic:

[]image[/]

I still don't get it. Teekup help me I'm confused :gonk:

Thats actually rather false. I normally talk and act like any straight male, If I want another gay mans attention I'll find a way to slip in a conversation, like if he;s searching for a video game. If thats the case I try to make it a bit more obvious that I'm gay.

Gay's that are loud, obnoxious, and extremely feminent out in public, I believe they do this for the attention of possibly other gay guys and don't know any other way how.

[mech]

Thats actually rather false. I normally talk and act like any straight male, If I want another gay mans attention I'll find a way to slip in a conversation, like if he;s searching for a video game. If thats the case I try to make it a bit more obvious that I'm gay.

Gay's that are loud, obnoxious, and extremely feminent out in public, I believe they do this for the attention of possibly other gay guys and don't know any other way how.

So I see you're looking for a hard game to beat, it's in my pants.

Is that how you do it teek?

:-3

[Terry]

I seriously don't see what the huge deal is on either side. At the end of the day, marriage is pretty much just a form of control, really. It isn't anything special, no other animals do it. It's pretty much signing a paper and saying "YES NOW IM WITH THEM TILL DEATH".

Personally, I don't get why marriage is such a desired thing and what's so important about it when you look past all of the traditional society bullshit.

Also, alot of people aren't religious and still get married, so I don't see why gay people would be OH SO BAD if they got married in a church. Either way, marriage is a fucking legal paper and has little to do with religion now adays anyway.


It's a stupid argument on both sides. The solution: people realise that they are both fighting over a piece of paper that generally means nothing.

[Pooky]

I'm fucking confused. So to help myself deal with it logically, I drew a quick comic:



I still don't get it. Teekup help me I'm confused :gonk:

Funny, but wrong. Most gays I know hang out with girls more than guys. Me, I think its for the same reason straight guys hang out with mostly other guys.

[Rob Oplawar]

Like I said, I think the argument isn't just over the little piece of paper with little meaning; the thing is that homosexuals are pissed because by forbidding gay marriage or even by failing to comment either way on the subject is basically an admission that gay people are not equal to straight people in the eyes of the government, and I wholeheartedly agree that that's something to get pissed about.

[Terry]

Yeah, I agree that's something to get pissed about. My point is, why should the government even fucking care, its a piece of paper that costs them nothing and has nothing to do with anything.

[Bodzilla]

The way i look at it is this.

it will make alot of people happy, and with no legitimate reason to stand in there way, why should we?
let them be happy.

[FluffyDucky™]

Your getting it wrong. You can get married by the government in a non-religious way and you can have same sex marriages but... when they want to be married by a church, this is where the problem is. Religiously it is wrong (because god said so >_> ).

[Phopojijo]

I take the same stance as sXephil on YouTube: Is gay marriage in some way affecting your marriage? Does it impinge upon your rights? No? So shut up.It might... depending on what context.

Will it impinge on our rights if the government allows homosexual marriage? No.

Will it impinge on our rights if the government forces private institutions to perform these services? Yes.

Marriage by judge/captain/whatever... fine. That's the government controlling the government. If the government is given the ability, however, to control private organizations that sets a bad legal precedent for other unrelated situations...

The people in California voted on the topic. They said governmental recognition of a Homosexual is not going to be allowed.Yeaaaaa that ballot was messed up to begin with...

[ICEE]

Those of you who say that gays should create their own form of union rather than wanting marriage, may not realize that that creates a system of separate but equal. Everyone who paid attention in US history class knows that seperate but equal != truly equal.

[Dwood]

Yeaaaaa that ballot was messed up to begin with...

Just like the 3 other times they voted on it right? :lol:

[jngrow]

...let society decide when it's okay, not the government because issues fighting for the recognition by the government through the courts create more social problems than they solve.

No. This doesn't work. At all. Ever heard of things like... say... the Little Rock Nine? Or.. iunno.. the Civil War?

[cheezdue]

Gay people should deserve to be happy, why is the government making such a big deal out of this? Don't gays also have the right to seek happiness?

[FlyingStone]

No. Gays should burn.

Everyone has the right to seek happiness, even same sex couples.

[Chainsy]

I say we go neutral and try to stick with A sexual reproduction, I know my own needs. :3 Just wash your hands for God's sake will you?

[BobtheGreatII]

I say we go neutral and try to stick with A sexual reproduction, I know my own needs. :3 Just wash your hands for God's sake will you?

:saggy:Keep it clean.

[rossmum]

let society decide when it's okay
Of all the incredibly, mind-numbingly stupid things that have ever been posted by you, I think this one takes the cake. Society as a whole is the worst fucking decision maker there is. Why? Because it represents the masses. In case you hadn't realised, the general public are ignorant, slow-witted, and quick to try and restrict anything they don't understand and doubly so to blame something else for their own fuckups (I refer you to the whole "video games cause murder/sexual content in movies causes rape" situation). A person on their own is smart, but a massed group from the general public is so incredibly fucking gullible and stupid that it's not funny. You honestly think they should make decisions about others' rights? Oh, wait. They did when they accepted slavery in the US, the assimilation of the Aborigines out here, and the fucking rise of Hitler and all his anti-Semitic tripe in Germany. You honestly want this same group making their opinions on gay marriage law?

[Zeph]

Your getting it wrong. You can get married by the government in a non-religious way and you can have same sex marriages but... when they want to be married by a church, this is where the problem is. Religiously it is wrong (because god said so >_> ).

So you're saying all churches have to do the same thing?

[Bodzilla]

churches have nothing to do with it though.

They put it out the spam to ban it, yes, however Marriages arnt exactly holy to begin with, so it shouldnt concern them.
If they dont want to marry people in their doors thats fair enough and you cant force them (not that i think they're trying to.... and this is where the religious/ right job wacko's have it wrong) But there are places that do marriages, taht arnt religous i mean look at atheists, they still get married.
its not all about some shit between you, her and god you know?

Some people Dane, like to have a Title next to their name, look at Dr's, most like being called Dr. John.
so whats wrong with allowing people to be called Mr and Mrs. Even if in reality the title is worthless, the sentimental value to some people is phenomenal.

[t3h m00kz]

Gay's that are loud, obnoxious, and extremely feminent out in public, I believe they do this for the attention of possibly other gay guys and don't know any other way how.

There's another way. INTARWEBS!!!

However I don't really know too many gays who actually act stereotypically "gay." I know about four or five homo/bisexuals, and honestly not a single one of them talks with a lisp or does any of the stereotypical stuff. They're actually pretty down-to-earth, and not overly-sexually driven. Don't get me wrong, I've seen it around, yes, but from what I can tell it seems to only be a fraction of them that actually fits the stereotype.

[FluffyDucky™]

So you're saying all churches have to do the same thing?

I don't understand what your getting at? What do you think I'm saying? Churches act under god, and in gods ways, homosexuality is wrong. There are a lot of religions that accept it, but that is a different story. The more mainstream widely recognized religions are all mainly against it.


churches have nothing to do with it though.

They put it out the spam to ban it, yes, however Marriages arnt exactly holy to begin with, so it shouldnt concern them.
If they dont want to marry people in their doors thats fair enough and you cant force them (not that i think they're trying to.... and this is where the religious/ right job wacko's have it wrong) But there are places that do marriages, taht arnt religous i mean look at atheists, they still get married.
its not all about some shit between you, her and god you know?

Some people Dane, like to have a Title next to their name, look at Dr's, most like being called Dr. John.
so whats wrong with allowing people to be called Mr and Mrs. Even if in reality the title is worthless, the sentimental value to some people is phenomenal.

You really need to read the first post again.


LOS ANGELES - Outside the gates of a Mormon temple, Kai Cross joined more than 2,000 gay-rights advocates in a chorus of criticism of the church's role in a new statewide ban on same-sex marriage.

Church has nothing to do with it? I beg to differ. I'm only commenting on you saying that it has nothing to do with the church when the church is the big influence in banning it in the first place.


The ballot measure passed Tuesday, which was sponsored by a coalition of religious and social conservative groups, amends the California Constitution to define marriage as a heterosexual act. It overrides a state Supreme Court ruling that briefly gave same-sex couples the right to wed.

We have gone off track a bit with peoples opinions when the main issue involves religious groups. It is because of the churches influence throughout the world that they can do many things that to us seem to be fundamentally wrong towards human rights by means of laws. Churches have always been a power hungry force ready to crush anything that deems to be sinful in the means of God and Jesus Christ.

Either way, opinions, churches power, laws, there will always be someone unhappy.

[Bodzilla]

The Church has nothing to do with MARRIAGE OR ATHEISTS WOULD NEVER MARRY EACH OTHER.

THE CHURCH IS INVOLVED IN THE BANNING BUT NOT IN MARRIAGE.

Caps lock increases understanding of critical points.

[Dr Nick]

For some reason, every time I hear about Proposition 8, it reminds me of the Proposition H joke from Austin Powers, and how "it feels good on the hole." and that makes me laugh.

Personally, I'm against the gay marriage bans. It's the choice of the people in democratic countries, so why should the more wealthy and politically important people get to choose who does what?

TeeKup for president?

[Rob Oplawar]

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/210299/november-11-2008/proposition-8-protests---dan-savage
:awesome:

[FluffyDucky™]

The Church has nothing to do with MARRIAGE OR ATHEISTS WOULD NEVER MARRY EACH OTHER.

THE CHURCH IS INVOLVED IN THE BANNING BUT NOT IN MARRIAGE.

Caps lock increases understanding of critical points.

Atheists are only one religious group Bod. I understand what you are saying but gay people also want the right to be married by a church, which most likely will never happen. They are responsible for the banning and also part for those that want a "holy" gay marriage.

[Jelly]

Atheists are only one religious group Bod. I understand what you are saying but gay people also want the right to be married by a church, which most likely will never happen. They are responsible for the banning and also part for those that want a "holy" gay marriage.
Atheists are a religious group?

[Huero]

To some atheists are considered a religion, to other not so much; it simply depends on the way you look at them; usually religious people think of then as a religious group, though they pride themselves on not being one.

ANYWAY to be quite honest while it's certainly not a natural custom it is one that has evolved in human culture for quite some time and if one group should have it every group should. Fuck it, let them have a religious ceremony too; it's the same situation; a cultural phenom spread over nearly all of human society. It's hardly fair to ban others from doing something when other groups can. One could even consider it a "right"; although I partially agree I really don't think marriage is at all something worthy enough to be covered in any form of legislation as all it is at heart is an expression of affection between two people.

[Limited]

I dont get why the church or government dont agree with it? Is it because it says in the bible? The thing we have no proof that some one didnt just make it all up?

[Phopojijo]

Just like the 3 other times they voted on it right? :lol:Well one problem with voting on that issue is either it doesn't directly affect the voter, or they're biased towards it.

Would you like the world to vote on which girlfriend you should have? It doesn't affect any one of them, but they'll still pair you up with the worst possible match because they're shit disturbers... hence all these Blind Dating shows.

I'd get into the confusion of the ballot as well... but you know.

[Bodzilla]

Atheists are only one religious group Bod. I understand what you are saying but gay people also want the right to be married by a church, which most likely will never happen. They are responsible for the banning and also part for those that want a "holy" gay marriage.
Wut.

[n00b1n8R]

They sort of are a "religious group" in the sense that that they have their own beliefs about god (or lack there of). It's not organised like most other "religions" but it is a group of people who share the same (or simmilar) belief about god(s).

[Bodzilla]

no it's not, atheism isn't a belief because it acts on current knowledge instead of faith, which is a fundamental aspect of ANY religion.

A belief in a lack of Belief is a paradox.

[n00b1n8R]

it's a belief regarding gods. What do you call religion?

[Jelly]

no it's not, atheism isn't a belief because it acts on current knowledge instead of faith, which is a fundamental aspect of ANY religion.

A belief in a lack of Belief is a paradox.
So, "I believe there is no god" is not a valid belief?

Atheism is a belief, but not a religion.

[Dr Nick]

So, "I believe there is no god" is not a valid belief?

Atheism is a belief, but not a religion.Atheism isn't a belief. It's the lack thereof. Read up if you wanna be one of the cool kids.

Also, that would be the belief that someone else is wrong.

Believing God doesn't exist just means you're questioning religion.

[Huero]

A belief in a lack of Belief is a paradox.
What if I believe that there IS a lack of belief among atheists?
:C

No really honestly I think atheism is more of a shared opinion than anything.
Then again you get the pompous, high-and-mighty assholes that KNOW THEY'RE RIGHT AND ANYBODY THAT DISAGREES IS A FUCKING IDIOT that are often common in religious sects as well.

Oh and Jelly keep in mind that not all, in fact the MAJORITY of religions do not believe in the same god; while it can be argued, it has essentially been established that Jewish, Islamic, and Christian religions are the only ones that believe in the -same- god. A great amount of them are polytheistic, believe in another god, or do not have a god at all.

[p0lar_bear]

So uh how the fuck did this go from gay rights to religion?

The only religion around here is the Brotherhood of the Banhammer. http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-q.gif

[Agnaiel]

I'm going to do the best I can to get this thread back on track.

I'm all for gay rights. If they want to get married, that's fine by me.

I honestly don't even see why there is this kind of thing going on in the first place; I could have sworn that there was a spot in the Constitution about the separation of church and state. What happened to that? I think that if the government isn't going to recognize gay marriages, then they shouldn't be able to recognize any marriages at all.

As for the churches not marrying gay people in their church... Well, it's their church, so that doesn't bother me. But, our government does...

One of the mods should make a poll for this thread.

[n00b1n8R]

The only religion around here is the Brotherhood of the Banhammer. http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-q.gif
AND THE CULT OF THE EMPEROR, PREPARE TO BURN HERETIC!!

[TeeKup]

I could have sworn that there was a spot in the Constitution about the separation of church and state. What happened to that?

Republicans/Conservatists sympathetic to the church seem to be ignoring that rule outright and the rest of the government doesn't seem to give a rats ass. THIS is what I fucking HATE about our government. Either they don't GIVE A DAMN or they're too fucking LAZY.

[Bodzilla]

What if I believe that there IS a lack of belief among atheists?
:C

then that is your belief and not theirs :downs:

[Bodzilla]

So uh how the fuck did this go from gay rights to religion?

The only religion around here is the Brotherhood of the Banhammer. http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-q.gif
Zombie too.

User title all up in this thread y0

[Dwood]

I'm going to do the best I can to get this thread back on track.

I'm all for gay rights. If they want to get married, that's fine by me.

I honestly don't even see why there is this kind of thing going on in the first place; I could have sworn that there was a spot in the Constitution about the separation of church and state. What happened to that? I think that if the government isn't going to recognize gay marriages, then they shouldn't be able to recognize any marriages at all.


Separation of Church and State eh?

I doubt you understand what it entails. It doesn't say "Decisions aren't allowed to be influenced by religion/Church"

You should take it as "The Pope can't tell the Gvt. What to do."

If I were the leader of the Homo's I would tell them to launch a campaign about it being "okay to be gay" not to go through the court system again and continue with the protests on the churches, only for Prop. 8 to be ratified again. (The LDS church is one of the most stubborn church organizations ever. No amount of campaigning will ever change their mind on this particular issue)

[TeeKup]

I doubt you understand what it entails. It doesn't say "Decisions aren't allowed to be influenced by religion/Church"

ARE YOU SERIOUS? You see no hypocrisy WHAT SO EVER in our government?

Do I need to find the links that show Sarah Palin spouting off that our war in Iraq was a mission from god?

Lets explore Seperation of Church and State in Freedom of Religion and Freedom FROM Religion shall we?


Simply pointing out that people have the freedom to pray however they wish is not enough. Forcing people to accept some particular idea or adhere to behavioral standards from someone else’s religion means that their religious freedom is being infringed upon.

Freedom from religion does not mean, as some mistakenly seem to claim, being free from seeing religion in society. No one has the right not to see churches, religious expression, and other examples of religious belief in our nation — and those who advocate freedom of religion do not claim otherwise.

What freedom from religion does mean, however, is the freedom from the rules and dogmas of other people’s religious beliefs so that we can be free to follow the demands of our own conscience, whether they take a religious form or not. Thus, we have both freedom of religion and freedom from religion because they are two sides of the same coin.

Are you going to sit here and tell me those people who voted on the banning of Gay marriage were NOT forcing their religious belief that "gays should not marry" on the state? See as how they voted AGAINST gay marriage I'm going to go with that they are at the very least sympathetic to the church. That being said they're supporting the religious beliefs of the church and enforcing them on everyone else, some of whom do not support this believe in the church. As that quote just stated we as citizen of the United States are SUPPOSED to be free from people forcing religion onto others. IF THE VOTE ON PROPOSITION 8 ISN'T A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THIS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS. IN ORDER FOR AN EFFECTIVE GOVERNMENT THERE NEEDS TO BE NO BIASED REASONING WHAT-SO-EVER, AS LONG AS PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO BE INFLUENCED BY THEIR RELIGION THERE CAN BE NO FAIR AND EQUAL WAY OF GOVERNMENT. IF YOU CAN TRULY GIVE ME A REASON WHY PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DO THIS THEN BY ALL MEANS, GIVE ME A REASON.

[rossmum]

He's an idiot, just pretend he doesn't exist before you lost faith in humanity like me

[Jelly]

Atheism isn't a belief. It's the lack thereof. Read up if you wanna be one of the cool kids.

Also, that would be the belief that someone else is wrong.

Believing God doesn't exist just means you're questioning religion.
Try and have some respect if you want to debate it, I'd rather not argue with somebody who used an Ad Hominem argument straight out.

What you're doing is confusing belief with religion. I can believe what scientific evidence tells me, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion. Atheism can be both the belief that there are no deities and the lack of belief in deities. They do not contradict each other, making your first point pretty worthless.

Regarding your second point: I do not think you understand how many beliefs, religious or otherwise, there are in the world. They all believe that the other beliefs have got it wrong some way, so they make a split from a larger belief system or form their own. Atheism is not alone in it's belief that, for example, God does not exist.

Your last point: you make it sound like religion has some authority over what is right. Believing God does not exist is not a question to religion, rather a rejection of it.

Yeah, I've gone way off topic. Sorry Teek, I felt I had to respond to this.

[Rob Oplawar]

I would tell them to launch a campaign about it being "okay to be gay"

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/149822
back when south park used to be funny

[LinkandKvel]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/149822
back when south park used to be funny

Your telling me when Cartman and Wendy fought wasn't funny?......Also Dwood = ignorant

[Dwood]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/149822
back when south park used to be funny

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/210131

I actually thought that one was pretty funny.

Teekup, your reasoning is not correct.

No one is forcing religion down your throat, no one is preventing the act of being gay.

[jngrow]

Someone is preventing gay people doing something because they are gay. :eyesroll:

[Dwood]

Someone is preventing gay people doing something because they are gay. :eyesroll:

Not really, it's just legalities and Governmental recognition.

It was also, as I stated, passed in a Democratic manner.

If you have a problem with it, in the next 2 or so years, propose an amendment to the state constitution and do it the right way.

[TeeKup]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/210131

I actually thought that one was pretty funny.

Teekup, your reasoning is not correct.

No one is forcing religion down your throat, no one is preventing the act of being gay.


I never said the act was being prevented, I was stating the act of gay marriage banned by politicans who are either with or sympathetic to the church is corruption of government and OUTRIGHT WRONG; last time I checked, not everyone is christian, not everyone wants christian beliefs. The fact that the church is using politicians to enforce their beliefs, I.E. DOWN OTHER PEOPLE'S THROATS, is CORRUPT, IMMORAL, AND WRONG.


Not really, it's just legalities and Governmental recognition.

It was also, as I stated, passed in a Democratic manner.

If you have a problem with it, in the next 2 or so years, propose an amendment to the state constitution and do it the right way.

You are perhaps the finest example of biggotry I have ever seen.

[DarkHalo003]

Homosexuality is ridiculously stupid. It's not only wrong, but that's not how stuff works. It's sad though, not their fault they're gay in most cases (excluding Lindsay Lohan). I suppose that's some of the reasons why we have churches and rehabilitation centers.

[TeeKup]

Homosexuality is ridiculously stupid. It's not only wrong, but that's not how stuff works. It's sad though, not their fault they're gay in most cases (excluding Lindsay Lohan). I suppose that's some of the reasons why we have churches and rehabilitation centers.

Your stupidity is amazing, I swear it's like you're asking to be lashed out at. As far as I'm concerned this topic is done. I'm closing this now before the flames coming out of my mouth melt my computer screen.