Proud to be an

[Rob Oplawar]

I'm sick and tired of the USA hate going on. For about two days after Obama was elected the world seemed to flip-flop and congratulate and respect Americans (which in itself was irritating, because Obama's not some holy savior, you guys), but now everybody seems to be back in the habit of blaming us for their own problems, accusing us of being amoral, insulting us by calling us fat, and generally throwing hate at this country.

Well gorramit, I am liberal, I'm in college, I'm against the Iraq war, I'm disillusioned with politics, and yet I for one am still proud to be an American.

For all our failures the United States is still a wonderful place to live, has contributed and continues to contribute greatly to global science and economy, and despite the failure in Iraq still stands for global peace and against the inhumanity so many other countries let slide.

Who's with me?

[StankBacon]

fucking a, i love the USA, and am damn proud to live here.

[ExAm]

I only became truly proud of it on November 4th. :v:

[CN3089]

still stands for global peace and against the inhumanity so many other countries let slide.

Yeah, about that... :holy:

[n00b1n8R]

We were glad you didn't get another republican parrot in the white house, but he's no good if he's not calling the shots. Why wouldn't our opinion change back?

Also: Proud Aussy (no borders, high employment, high quality of life, not nearly as population dense as the USA, etc, etc, etc).

E: and fewer conservative fundamentalists.

[Amit]

Where's the "Not American, and wouldn't like it" option?

I asked this so the other guys wouldn't have to.

[n00b1n8R]

Not American, and it's a good thing.

[Corndogman]

Also "American, but don't really give a shit" option?

^Not me, but somebody might want that... I'm pretty proud to live here, though I wouldn't mind living in Aussieland.

[Dwood]

I like it here. Heckuva lot more opportunities here than anywhere else.

If you weren't proud of our country until just now then that's not very American.

You should be pleased/happy/proud of our country whether or not people you like are running it.

[ICEE]

I think this poll needs a "not american, but patriotic about my own country" option.

[CN3089]

I like it here. Heckuva lot more opportunities here than anywhere else.
You don't travel much, do you?

[Skill]

E: and fewer conservative fundamentalists.
This is offset by the Liberal Party idiots in your country.

Every country has its share of idiots and otherwise stupid people. What makes America different is that these idiots get put in charge. I suppose you hate Germany because Hitler was in charge once? http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/2505/emotgodwinsg8.gif

tl;dr don't hate America; hate the people that make bad decisions in its name.

[Dwood]

You don't travel much, do you?

If I wanted to be a surgeon in say, Britain, Australia, or France, how much would I get paid, on average?

[paladin]

Never travel to Europe, and sorry if your European. When I was in Germany I had to constantly defend Americas actions/ current situation.

[Rob Oplawar]

Also "American, but don't really give a shit" option?Perhaps I should add more options then...


I think this poll needs a "not american, but patriotic about my own country" option.
This isn't about other countries; it's about the USA. Not that I don't care about other countries; I like Upsidedownia, and I like Hockeyland, and I like that one island, what's it called, it's like next to France or something.

If you're that obtuse, I'm being ironical. I'm just saying, I have established respect for other countries; I'm just whining about the large lack of respect for my own.


Never travel to Europe, and sorry if your European. When I was in Germany I had to constantly defend Americas actions/ current situation.That's slightly different. I am largely opposed to many of the US's current policies, and I would agree with many foreigners that things need to change. But that's no reason to treat the United States with the disrespect it's been getting. I've been taking it with good humor when foreigners have been calling us on our shortcomings; fair is fair. But please stop judging us solely on our shortcomings, or I'm going to have to start pointing out where you'd be without us.

[Skill]

Never travel to Europe, and sorry if your European. When I was in Germany I had to constantly defend Americas actions/ current situation.
Just stitch a Canadian flag onto your backpack. You'll get way less shit from the people there. I went to Belgium last summer (I have family there), and I made sure everyone knew I was from the less-hated part of North America. Nobody bothered me.

I hate pretending I'm Canadian, but god damn poutine is delicious and foreigners fuck with me less.

[Roostervier]

I'm proud of being born and living in America.

[Huero]

I'm not proud to be an American, but I'm not ashamed of it :C
national pride is a slippery slope, imo;
what do i vote?

[DarkHalo003]

I'm still patriotic about America because it is one of the best countries to live in. A lot of the media is based on tragedy rather than the good side of things, so America is a bit exaggerated when it comes to the bad news. Still, I like America. Still is a good country.

[ultama121]

American and proud, wouldn't mind being part of just about any other good country though.

[Limited]

Ooooh, a topic about USA!

The biggest annoyance I have will America, is the fact no one can ever admit defeat. You can not admit you are wrong and that people hate you. (When I say you I mean USA in general not actual person to person)

For instance, you cant accept that everyone in the world hates you. Also the fact you believe you are the biggest, boldest and best country in the world, yes you are one of the top 5, but does being number 1 really matter?

I also hate when people say "because thats the American way/thing!" fuck off, no its not.

I may come across that I hate America now and in past, I dont, it just has its plus sides and down sides. If I could travel anywhere in world, I'd be to America.

[Anton]

Which brings up the point that EVERY country does that for the most part. It's called national pride.

And I believe the nation as a whole already understands the rest of the world hates us.

.. so yeah..

[Rentafence]

The rest of the world is just jealous :haw:

[Mass]

I'm proud to be an American.
I really like the heritage I have in this country, its ideals, systems, and customs.

Oh, and I like fruit pie, notable for being more awesome than meat pie.

[Anton]

^ wut :O

<3 you anyway.

Rentafence, I love you, but why be ignorant. :rolleyes:

[Terin]

I'm ok with being an American. I'm not "WHOO AMERICA FUCK YEAH WE'RE THE BEST", but I don't go "LAWL SOMEONE DIED IN AMERICA, OF COURSE THAT WOULD HAPPEN THERE". Moderate, I guess.

[MetKiller Joe]

I love the values this country supposedly represents, but not what the population, politicians, and general culture have become.

[Dwood]

The rest of the world is just jealous :haw:

:ssh::ssh::ssh:

I wonder what France would be doing if they were in our position.... Or Germany, for that matter?

They all have a tendency towards violence when they are world powers. At least it's America and not Russians invading Iraq and Afghanistan.

[il Duce Primo]

All you commies want America to burn! :p

TBH I wish there was less of the "Only in America" bullshit people say when something bad happens.

[Rob Oplawar]

Ooooh, a topic about USA!

The biggest annoyance I have will America, is the fact no one can ever admit defeat. You can not admit you are wrong and that people hate you. (When I say you I mean USA in general not actual person to person)

What? I already said, we have some bad policies and some bad stuff has happened in the past. I admit the fact that people hate us. My point is that it's unfair to hate us just because of a few shortcomings.

For instance, you cant accept that everyone in the world hates you. Also the fact you believe you are the biggest, boldest and best country in the world, yes you are one of the top 5, but does being number 1 really matter?

We're losing our position as world leader, but you cannot argue with the impact the USA has had on the world, for better and for worse.

I also hate when people say "because thats the American way/thing!" fuck off, no its not.

I may come across that I hate America now and in past, I dont, it just has its plus sides and down sides. If I could travel anywhere in world, I'd be to America.

We've got some pretty mountains and some tasty food. Come and visit. :)

[DrunkenSamus]

I only like America because of California. :D There's no other state or region in the world where you can surf, snowboard, and get lost in an earthquake fault all on the same DAY!

[Random]

Yeah how else would we all be so fat. :)

Fucking samus, this post should be below the mountains of food post :/

[DaneO'Roo]

Fuck you and your patriotism.

"it's a round world last I checked"

[Rob Oplawar]

Look Dane, I never said anything about any other countries. No fuck that, I did. I said I liked Australia. I never said anything like "We're the best" or "you aren't as great" or "we're #1". I did state the fact that the US is more influential than Australia. Am I wrong?

Once again, not trying to put down other countries, I'm trying to get other countries to stop putting us down.

[DarkHalo003]

Look Dane, I never said anything about any other countries. No fuck that, I did. I said I liked Australia. I never said anything like "We're the best" or "you aren't as great" or "we're #1". I did state the fact that the US is more influential than Australia. Am I wrong?

Once again, not trying to put down other countries, I'm trying to get other countries to stop putting us down.
If it makes any other country's people feel better, I would either move to Canada, Australia, or maybe Britain if I had to, just because all of those places are the second coolest to America in my opinion.

We have apple pie and sweet tea. FTW.

[Skill]

If I had the option to move to any country in the world, it'd probably be Canada for the free land.

But in America, we have somewhat decent gun laws, so I'll be sticking here and enjoying my semiautomatic rifles. I'm looking at you, Australia.

[DaneO'Roo]

Look Dane, I never said anything about any other countries. No fuck that, I did. I said I liked Australia. I never said anything like "We're the best" or "you aren't as great" or "we're #1". I did state the fact that the US is more influential than Australia. Am I wrong?

Once again, not trying to put down other countries, I'm trying to get other countries to stop putting us down.

Influential for what exactly?

Far as I can tell, the only reason you guys ever accomplished anything is because your ancestors were cutthroat enough to do it first. You know, the whole "lets go invade Africa for slaves and kill all the natives to found an empire" thing.

Otherwise Russia or someone else who wanted to would have and could have been the global superpower.

Thing is, that stuff is old, but even still recently, you guys are the ones that bring us the endless sack of shit that is Hollywood and your fast food joints and pretty much doomed us all after you guys "took over".

Heres the deal America, when you assume your status as the world police and you take action as the big boy of the world, do it properly.

You claim your status as global manager, yet you only managed to fuck things up in the last hundred years. Anyone else who had unity and peace in mind rather than globalization when they founded an empire would have done a better job.

What the fuck are you to be proud of? You can't do anything with your patriotism. Your parents fucked there. Big deal.



As I said earlier, it's a round planet. Stop all patriotism all together. The only way America as a nation (I'm talking about your country, not the people) can ever gain any global respect, sadly enough, is time and your devotion to the world as a whole rather than your needs at the expense of every other nation.

[Ifafudafi]

American and proud. Not because of what we've done the past 8 years but because of everything else.

Here's the fundamental issue I'm seeing with other people's opinion:
-American leaders circumvent the Constitution/lie to the public to sway voters.
-American leaders fuck shit up in the world.
-Americans dissaprove.
-American leaders walk away saying HEY AMERICA IS A DEMOCRACY, NOT OUR FAULT
-Americans get blamed.

Bush & Co. excellently played off the 9/11 fear/patriotism surge in order to go into Iraq, for whatever their reason was. We were told there was conclusive evidence there were nukes. There weren't. We were told that the situation was getting better. It wasn't. And so on and so forth.

Don't blame the population of a country for the buerocracy's actions. Am I proud of what's happened in the Middle East? Hell no, and neither is anybody else here. But I'm proud of what we've done right the past 232 years, which is quite a few things.

That, and I like cheeseburgers.

Fuck, I hate it when you people bicker enough to make me rant my political opinions. Stop e_e

[mech]

I think the poll is fine, since it's about America after all.

r-9_fDEsv-Q

[Rob Oplawar]

Well Dane, that's exactly the kind of unjustified disrespect I'm talking about: "you only managed to fuck things up in the last hundred years". :rolleyes: You're entitled to your opinion, and tbh, I should have +repped you for being honest about it instead of -repping you because I found it so offensive.

To counter your argument, I'll throw it back in your face rhetorically: What the fuck has Australia done for the world in the past hundred years?

Truth be told, I'm sure Australia's got a lot to be proud of but fuck if I know it all because I'm not from there, and Australia hasn't exactly been a center of focus lately (that might change in the coming decades when Australia might play a large role in building the world's first space elevator- fingers crossed!). The point is, I don't personally know a lot about Australia, but I respect the country, but I could just as easily use the same kind of argument you're using to dis the US against Upsidedownia. If you're going to be too obtuse to see any good in what the United States has accomplished in the past three centuries, then there's not much I can say to change your mind.


Where's the love, Dane? I love you. :(

[Anton]

Why do people blame the general population for things that our leaders do?

When people say "America" they automatically assume every person in this country. Stop that. When I go out I don't see citizens walking down the street saying things like, "America is the best!".

Just because a select few on the internet, XBL, and other select places are like that doesn't mean the entire population is.

Honestly, if I had to choose a country to move to if America wasn't a choice I would go straight for Australia or New Zealand, after that I would go to Canada.

No more hate. :| Only love :[ PLEASE!

I still think Dane, Rob, and I should make sweet love. :3 50 spankings? Nah. I'll let this one slide ;)

[ICEE]

Threads about religion, politics and apparently patriotism, always seem to open up into flames and ignorance. It sort of disgusts me.

[Bodzilla]

Oh, and I like fruit pie, notable for being more awesome than meat pie.
You'll Burn in hell for that jew. Nobody insults the meat pie and gets away with it.


Hot topics always do Ironclad, it's what make them such interesting topics to begin with :p
Walking a razors edge if you will.

But it's retards i cant stand or respect and sadly alot of the shit that rubs me the wrong way comes straight from the Good Ol US of A. And it's because of your obsession with guns and how you cling to how things where done 300 years ago despite all the evidence and arguments supporting a better way.
However i dont honestly see what your seeing here Rob, i think theres been a Massive decline in the anti-america stuff lately, Theres a few tards that clutch at straws and old grudges but most of the oldies have backed right off.

Namely Me, Ross and n00b.

But i'm actually trying to organise a tour of america for 09, where i crash at your house and drop some australian accent if ya know what i mean ;)

[Skill]

But i'm actually trying to organise a tour of america for 09, where i crash at your house and drop some australian accent if ya know what i mean ;)
Good sir, if you are implying sex, you shall not commit such unclean acts upon my buttocks.

But if you absolutely must, be gentle.


And it's because of your obsession with guns
It's a hobby, just like video games or cars or D&D or what have you. If I see you in America I'll gladly take you shooting. Hunting sucks though. Shit's boring.

[Kornman00]

I'm just American vOv

However, I am ashamed of over patriotic Americans. Get a life.

[Bodzilla]

Good sir, if you are implying sex, you shall not commit such unclean acts upon my buttocks.

But if you absolutely must, be gentle.


It's a hobby, just like video games or cars or D&D or what have you. If I see you in America I'll gladly take you shooting. Hunting sucks though. Shit's boring.
i've been shooting.

didnt care for it.

[Siliconmaster]

I only became truly proud of it on November 4th. :v:

This. I supported America in general of course, being an American myself, but wasn't so sure of its recent behaviors. Nov. 4th gave me hope once again.

[ExAm]

i've been shooting.

didnt care for it.Some people enjoy it. I like to do it every once in a while, but for the most part, bullets are pretty expensive. Airsoft fills the rest of my rambo urges :downs:

[L0d3x]

Belgian, and proud of it.
Why I am proud? For absolutely no good reason, as I myself have nothing to do with how the country is run.

Think about it.

[Bodzilla]

God dam you Belgian's are evil.

[Skill]

Some people enjoy it. I like to do it every once in a while, but for the most part, bullets are pretty expensive. Airsoft fills the rest of my rambo urges :downs:
What kind of ammo are you using? .22LR is incredibly cheap, and the best one for plinking.

[Pooky]

I got vaginally ejected onto this patch of dirt, but I could have been vaginally ejected onto any other patch of dirt and I wouldn't have had any say. I think it's stupid to be proud of something that happens to you purely by chance. Similarly, I think it's idiotic to hate other people just because they got ejected onto some other patch of dirt.

[JunkfoodMan]

I went to Florida, and the people were really cool. Nothing much to say about londoners, other than that they either ignore you, ask you the time, mug you, be assholes to you. Although I'm 90% sure it's different in other parts of England (Back me up here Limited :().
All in all, every country has its problems. Over here it's social shit that needs sorting out, and the sudden obsession with political correctness. Over in America it's the ability to say "Maybe I should treat the USA as a Land rather than a collective hivemind that needs to be respected" and not be so damn Patriotic.
I've never met anybody who says out loud "PRAISE ENGLAND" or "IM PROUD OF ENGLAND" etc. The only one I've heard is "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN" mostly from drunk people or incredibly cockney people. It just seems obnoxious to constantly say "IM PROUD OF LIVING IN X" when in all honesty, nobody cares.

btw, Not living in America, wouldn't mind doing so.

[Skill]

I got vaginally ejected onto this patch of dirt
Why weren't you born in a hospital like a normal person?

[Rob Oplawar]

I'm not proud that I was born in America. Like you said, that's pretty arbitrary. I guess the saying "Proud to be an American" is pretty misleading.

I am proud of America, and I'm glad I happen to have been born here. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in the accomplishments of your fellows. I'm damn proud of what my father has accomplished, and yet I had absolutely nothing to do with that.

[nooBBooze]

I guess I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to patriotism.

If it means anything else than have a certain degree of respect for the struggles of ones fellow man within a certain cultural or ethnic area, weighing the differences against the similarites and rejoice for having found a roughly similar soul, i suppose I'm not patriotic at all.

I think the patriotism that i have in mind, the one that claims to not glorify the _current_ government and therefore ethically justify its actions yet glorifies decisions and actions taken by past governments selling it as "history" ,is the same deal as religion only with different wordings. I percieve both as mesmerizing propaganda that tries to emphasize on purely artificial separations between man like nationality, ethnicity or faith, in order to further establish current governmental structures/measures while undermining the real underlying ethical questions.
/fag

[Timo]

All in all, every country has its problems.
Sure do. Never go to South Auckland when you're in New Zealand, a kid got shot there recently in a drive-by shooting by some guys that wanted to get into a gang :|


I can understand why you can love your country and what it stands for, but I think (from what I see on TV) patriotism in America can get pretty over the top. I mean, I like it here, NZ is awesome, but I won't go shouting it from the rooftops or hang an NZ flag outside my door or pledge allegiance to it every morning in class. But I guess most people outside of America don't see much of it on the news, except when there's a random shooting or some crazy person does something stupid.

[Terry]

I got vaginally ejected onto this patch of dirt, but I could have been vaginally ejected onto any other patch of dirt and I wouldn't have had any say. I think it's stupid to be proud of something that happens to you purely by chance. Similarly, I think it's idiotic to hate other people just because they got ejected onto some other patch of dirt.

This is exactly why I always considered patriotism a bunch of shit. Sure, I'm willing to give back to my country but some people can take it to the point where it just makes no sense.

[Bastinka]

I dislike being part of a characterization group such as a race, government or leadership. It's just so silly, patriotism. Pride is good but whatever, I say.

[rossmum]

It wouldn't be too bad, as long as I wasn't stuck with the fucking rednecks. Seattle sounds lovely.

[HDoan]

Oh snap I voted the wrong option -_- should have thought about it before I pressed vote... Didn't fully understand the option before I voted.

[Mass]

I revere and intend to persist with my support and undying love for chauvinistic hegemony erected with generous donations of my own labor and wealth!

I like the people, culture, and ideals of the United States. As a Jew I like to have a home that includes and supports me.

But I don't really think we're going to make much progress until we dismantle the military industrial complex--completely--and return to the original American values of caution towards military, hate of empire, and fear of ourselves and our government.

You see, I think that the things that have given us a bad global reputation are inherently "un-American," and when I say I take pride in my country, I take pride in the people of this country that have fought this tyranny for decades, the thinkers and artists that continue to criticize and pressure our elite to make the decisions fit for a democracy.

[Pooky]

Why weren't you born in a hospital like a normal person?

My birth was exactly as described.

[Mr Buckshot]

I'm sick and tired of the USA hate going on. For about two days after Obama was elected the world seemed to flip-flop and congratulate and respect Americans (which in itself was irritating, because Obama's not some holy savior, you guys), but now everybody seems to be back in the habit of blaming us for their own problems, accusing us of being amoral, insulting us by calling us fat, and generally throwing hate at this country.

Well gorramit, I am liberal, I'm in college, I'm against the Iraq war, I'm disillusioned with politics, and yet I for one am still proud to be an American.

For all our failures the United States is still a wonderful place to live, has contributed and continues to contribute greatly to global science and economy, and despite the failure in Iraq still stands for global peace and against the inhumanity so many other countries let slide.

Who's with me?

I am partially with you. I have lived in the USA for three years, ...then I moved to Vancouver, BC, Canada.

I totally agree that the U.S. contributes very well to global science and economy. NASA is cool. As for the Iraq thing, the general people should not be blamed - blame a bad president and a gullible Congress. Let us put that behind us and hope that the U.S. government learns from its mistakes the way Germany and Japan did with regards to preemptive invasions.

The U.S. is probably the world leader in techno-entertainment...Anaheim, anyone? best part: USA has the world's cheapest left-hand-drive automobiles, no matter what brand, with the possible exception of several parts of Western Europe. I was born in a country where Toyota Camrys easily sell for six figures, forcing many people to buy cars on credit. Yes, I'm an auto enthusiast. Living in America allowed me to ride in cars MUCH better than those I used to have in my home country, simply because they're MUCH cheaper. For that, I thank America.

As for USA being wonderful to live in...that's only partially true. I lived in Silicon Valley, CA and I liked it. But Silicon Valley just happens to be one of the more peaceful and dynamic places. In other cities I've visited (not going to name any specifics out of respect) this is not the case. What I am opposed to is the fact that you can buy a gun as easily as you can buy a car. From what I see on the news, this "defend the victims" thing doesn't work at all. I could walk around with several guns tucked into my pants to defend myself, but all some mugger needs to do is open fire or backstab me when I'm not looking, and then I'm dead anyway. Every year too many innocent civilians die from guns that were purchased legally. It happens in many other developed nations too, but not as frequently as in the USA.

I don't think Obama's a "savior" either but he is better than his competitors. But I'm not psychic, I can't predict what good or bad he'll do. I just hope he learns from Vietnam/Iraq and never ever declares war on anyone.

Oh yeah, too many idiots think America is responsible for everything. I hate that too. I mean, look at the global economy now! Lots of countries should be taking responsibility...a lot of people seem to think America did it all.

"Calling you fat?" I also hate that insinuation, all the American friends I had in Silicon Valley were surely not obese.

As for the amoral thing, yes, I do think many non-Americans take it too seriously, but don't forget about all the sexual/racial intolerance within your own borders that sparks truly unthinkable horrors.

You are proud to be American, that is good. National pride is a good quality. I'm proud to be azn-Canadian (I love Asia and I love Vancouver). There is a lot I like about America, but there is also a lot I dislike about America. Then again, no country is perfect, but there's no harm in making a conscious effort to try to be perfect.

[Skill]

Every year too many innocent civilians die from guns that were purchased legally.

I stopped reading right here.

Do you bother to read facts at all, or do you just give in to the emotional "GUNS KILL CHILDREN ALL THE TIME" bullshit the left puts out?

[rossmum]

Canada has shitloads of guns and very little gun crime, wootles

[Skill]

Canada has shitloads of guns and very little gun crime, wootles
This is the point I am trying to make.

Don't blame guns for pure American stupidity.

[ExAm]

This is the point I am trying to make.

Don't blame guns for pure American stupidity.
*ahem*

[Heathen]

US and working out how to gtfo

[Limited]

Well, the fact that Americans require a win in everything tells alot about it. As far as I know, every single one of your sports HAS to be either a win or lose. No draws (yeah that NFL game was a one off), why cant you bare drawing? Is it the fact both of you lost?

Also quit stealing our sports and calling them silly names. :-D

[Needles]

I don't really know. Our freedoms and things that other countires have are really, really, great. But I always remember all the retarded people who abuse these rights, and the just plain stupid people that live here.

[Mr Buckshot]

Canada has shitloads of guns and very little gun crime, wootles

The vast majority of the "shitload" of guns sold in Canada are not very good choices for combat - they're for hunting or defending farms/remote communities from wild animals. Handguns and automatics are banned in british columbia anyway. There are organized criminals here who illegally acquire handguns from other countries, but over 99% of the shootings in Vancouver were targeted at other criminals. The reporters always assure that the general public was not threatened. That's because your average street mugger in Vancouver wouldn't know how to smuggle a pistol without being caught. We have countless cases of gangs vs. gangs shootouts, but no bank holdups with AKs, no Virginia Tech-style massacres, no snipers who pick off random people on the streets. In five years there's only been one known case in Vancouver of a total madman smuggling a handgun over and killing a random innocent kid with it.

in other words, the lack of handguns and automatic weapons in Canada contributes to a low armed crime rate. If you're going to rob a bank 1997-North-Hollywood-style, you probably won't want to bring your farmer grandpa's shotgun.

Of course, South Africa is a developed country too and it has a serious gun crime rate despite heavy bans, but that can be attributed to the instability of its neighbours...and the corruption at border checkpoints.

I don't think guns = pure stupidity, but the damage has been done since 1776. More police officers on the streets and a closer watch on those-who-just-got-released-from-jail-and-may-be-plotting-another-crime and cracking down on dirty cops is the best feasible solution. If anyone here has watched the first Robocop, you'll see what I mean (the parts leading up till Murphy's death). The amount of money spent on Iraq could hire thousands more police officers to uphold law and order.

best part about america besides cars: University Education! Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc all come to mind. The only countries that can compete with America in terms of university quality are the U.K., Japan, and Canada. I plan on coming to the U.S. for university anyway.

Like I said, there is much to like about America but the country could learn a few things from others too.

[Pooky]

This is the point I am trying to make.

Don't blame guns for pure American stupidity.

On the other hand, obnoxious statements like this piss me right off.

Guess what Modacity, I now hate all Canadians because they totally chose to be born in Canada, and they made the wrong choice.

Only in Canada.

Fucking idiots.

[Bodzilla]

DAM DIRTY CANADIANS.

well atleast there not as Evil as those dam Belgians!

[Apoc4lypse]

not I... fuck this place... it was a good place to live, and has had some good historical moments and roles in history, where it will end up who knows, I hope it can go back to being awesome though, then maybe I'll be proud to be an american again oneday... unfortunately I'm ashamed to be living in a country where Bush was capable of winning that relection.

I'm going to canada, and if the US tries to buy them like they plan on it, I'll join the underground resistance that they'll form (at least id hope they wud form one) who the fuck is gonna just up and let themselves get bought by another country thats fuken retarded.


(Note: I'm mostly just trying to sound like an extremeist for the sake of talking most of what I said is just banter and word vommit that has no actual backing or real thinking behind it other than President Bush is the biggest fuken failure this country has ever seen at this point.) I also still feel like the war in iraq was wrong and messed up, the way it was handled was fuked up, and 9/11 still isn't cleared up, I'm not saying I think it was a conspiracy Im just saying why don't you fuken for once and for all prove that it wasn't a damn conspiracy cuz I havent seen any real efforts from that side of the fence, if it really wasn't a conspiracy then its simple show us the damn proof and we'll leave you alone... Even all the coalitions or w/e the fuk they were called on 9/11, they still witheld information. Its pointless, and makes them look more guilty.

[Skill]

On the other hand, obnoxious statements like this piss me right off.

Guess what Modacity, I now hate all Canadians because they totally chose to be born in Canada, and they made the wrong choice.

Only in Canada.

Fucking idiots.
You don't get the point I am trying to make. But it doesn't matter how much I could possibly explain it to you, because you still wouldn't get it. And yet, I'm still going to try.

People are stupid. Humanity is idiotic. This is a given. Combine the general idiocy of humanity with such classic American ideals as liberty, pursuit of happiness, and entitlement, in addition to the general first world comforts America provides, and you have a problem. This problem is these fucks who misinterpret "the American way" and think they are entitled to everything and that they don't have to work to achieve success. When this dream doesn't come true, they become angry. When any man is confronted with the realization that everything he believed in (or at least most things) can't come true under his current way of life, he becomes angry. Some people would use this anger to help propel themselves to the top. Unfortunately, as I have stated before and cannot state enough, humanity is inherently evil. A lot of people direct this anger into unconstructive things such as crime. Americans are different from other first world countries because we, in general, feel we are entitled to more than we actually are. And that's why I called it American stupidity.

[jngrow]

I don't really like the statement "man is inherently evil". Why? What the fuck else is evil? Humans are humans. Evil pretty much only describes humans, and the OCCASIONAL animal. Not that I disagree with you.

[Pooky]

Americans are different from other first world countries because we, in general, feel we are entitled to more than we actually are. And that's why I called it American stupidity.

My point was, stupidity is stupidity. Putting labels on different 'kinds' of stupidity is asinine. There are stupid people in every country, so you might as well be saying 'my country's stupid people are less stupid than your stupid people, oh and by the way I'm also implying that all people in your country are stupid'.

[bobbysoon]

I think pridefull nationalists are fools. Yet, I'm not a pridefull nationalist...

[Reaper Man]

I'm American, don't think much of it, not in a negative way though. It's just that I'm not a fan of nationalism. Being proud of a country is like being proud of your favorite football team, it's essentially pointless.

[rossmum]

I don't think it is, or at least not in the way I'm immensely proud of all three of my countries. It means you care about it, and it means that when some useless wanker starts to run it into the ground, you have the motivation to set things right. The problems start when people take it too far, but having some pride in your country is never a bad thing.

[Skill]

My point was, stupidity is stupidity. Putting labels on different 'kinds' of stupidity is asinine. There are stupid people in every country, so you might as well be saying 'my country's stupid people are less stupid than your stupid people, oh and by the way I'm also implying that all people in your country are stupid'.
You just don't get it, do you?

I say "American stupidity" in the same sense I would say "Colt 1911" if I were talking about a handgun. Sure, many other companies make the 1911, but this is a 1911 that's unique to Colt.

I never said, or even intentionally implied, that Americans are less or more intelligent than people from the rest of the world. If you had bothered to read my post any more than just skimming over it, you would've known that it's stupidity that is spiced up by other factors, specifically relating to American ideals.

[Pooky]

You just don't get it, do you?

I say "American stupidity" in the same sense I would say "Colt 1911" if I were talking about a handgun. Sure, many other companies make the 1911, but this is a 1911 that's unique to Colt.

I never said, or even intentionally implied, that Americans are less or more intelligent than people from the rest of the world. If you had bothered to read my post any more than just skimming over it, you would've known that it's stupidity that is spiced up by other factors, specifically relating to American ideals.

I read your post, and I disagree. I don't think that stupidity has different variants like handguns, it's all the same. Statements like that piss me off because it implies that you think Americans are stupid, even if you didn't say that. It's asinine because even though you're aware of all that, you did it anyway.

Nice retaliation rep by the way Emmzee

[Skill]

I read your post, and I disagree. I don't think that stupidity has different variants like handguns, it's all the same. Statements like that piss me off because it implies that you think Americans are stupid, even if you didn't say that. It's asinine because even though you're aware of all that, you did it anyway.
I don't think Americans are stupid. I know they are, along with every person on the planet. I exempt nobody. You just cherry-picked certain words from my argument and used them against me, because apparently context is for fags.

[Pooky]

I don't think Americans are stupid. I know they are, along with every person on the planet. I exempt nobody. You just cherry-picked certain words from my argument and used them against me, because apparently context is for fags.

If you exempt nobody, what was the point of saying 'American stupidity' in the first place? Why not 'Human stupidity'?

[Apoc4lypse]

meh I was being harsh before... bad mood, not that im in a better one today...

I'm proud to be an american just disappointed about its current state.

I'd try and help fix it and all, but I don't feel like being a politician, my mouth wasn't made to deliver bullshit for a living, I'd join the army too but somehow I don't think thats the help we need atm. (obviously)

[Phopojijo]

I like it here. Heckuva lot more opportunities here than anywhere else.

If you weren't proud of our country until just now then that's not very American.

You should be pleased/happy/proud of our country whether or not people you like are running it.Did you live anywhere else so as to base your judgment? o.O

If so... where? What age? How long? Why is America better?

[NinjaFish]

BUSH ROX. Nuff Sed.

[rossmum]

Did you live anywhere else so as to base your judgment? o.O

If so... where? What age? How long? Why is America better?
Hey Dwood is like a fountain of knowledge dude, you really shouldn't question him

[Disaster]

Hey Dwood is like a fountain of knowledge dude, you really shouldn't question him
Lul, that fountain ran out of water a long time ago.

[Phopojijo]

Hey Dwood is like a fountain of knowledge dude, you really shouldn't question himOh right... Conservatives are trained to take things at face value and not question. XD

Okay okay yes that was a little too hard. Was just the perfect setup though >.>

[rossmum]

Too hard? No such thing.

[Corndogman]

Well, the fact that Americans require a win in everything tells alot about it. As far as I know, every single one of your sports HAS to be either a win or lose. No draws (yeah that NFL game was a one off), why cant you bare drawing? Is it the fact both of you lost?

Also quit stealing our sports and calling them silly names. :-D

Sorry but that's kind of a stupid analogy. First, most of our sports can have ties. Secondly, the point of the game is to beat the other team, and its a friendly match, and I don't think that really says anything about our people.

[Phopojijo]

Well, the fact that Americans require a win in everything tells alot about it. As far as I know, every single one of your sports HAS to be either a win or lose. No draws (yeah that NFL game was a one off), why cant you bare drawing? Is it the fact both of you lost?They called Vietnam and 1812 "Draws"...

[rossmum]

Vaguely related - I saw some idiot on youtube seriously trying to argue that the 1812 Overture was written about the US, not Russia. How they thought this despite the composer being Russian, the overture consisting largely of parts of both the Marseillaise and God Save the Tsar, and the fact that Napoleon got his shit wrecked by them in said year is beyond me.

And Vietnam was actually a US military victory until they pulled out, although it was certainly a shitty one

[Skill]

If you exempt nobody, what was the point of saying 'American stupidity' in the first place? Why not 'Human stupidity'?
Cool not reading my post bro. I'm not even going to waste time re-typing my argument that you should have read in the first place.


People are stupid. Humanity is idiotic. This is a given. Combine the general idiocy of humanity with such classic American ideals as liberty, pursuit of happiness, and entitlement, in addition to the general first world comforts America provides, and you have a problem. This problem is these fucks who misinterpret "the American way" and think they are entitled to everything and that they don't have to work to achieve success. When this dream doesn't come true, they become angry. When any man is confronted with the realization that everything he believed in (or at least most things) can't come true under his current way of life, he becomes angry. Some people would use this anger to help propel themselves to the top. Unfortunately, as I have stated before and cannot state enough, humanity is inherently evil. A lot of people direct this anger into unconstructive things such as crime. Americans are different from other first world countries because we, in general, feel we are entitled to more than we actually are. And that's why I called it American stupidity.

I bolded the parts you consistently fail to read.

[Pooky]

Cool not reading my post bro. I'm not even going to waste time re-typing my argument that you should have read in the first place.



I bolded the parts you consistently fail to read.

You contradicted yourself :|

[Skill]

You contradicted yourself :|
How so?

[Rob Oplawar]

should I lock this thread?

[Limited]

They called Vietnam and 1812 "Draws"...
Precisely, and they are both very touchy subjects for Americans.

The situation in India has targeted British and Americans for their actions, I think we both should should take this reality check and realise that we aren't untouchable and not owners of the world.

Rob, I do have a question for you, in your first post you say
"Well gorramit, I am liberal, I'm in college, I'm against the Iraq war, I'm disillusioned with politics, and yet I for one am still proud to be an American."

How on earth can you still be proud to be American, when that is the heart and sole of what America is. When you say it, your saying "I'm proud of my countries actions, and support the views"

[Rob Oplawar]

It really pisses me off when people try to tell me what my intentions are. That may be the impression you get, but I can assure you, it is not my intention.

I am not proud of all of my country's actions nor do I support all of its views. But ffs, we have done some really awesome stuff and have a really good quality of life, which we are actually succeeding in spreading around, albeit slowly. Give us the credit we deserve.

Don't make me go after those guys overseas that have a "queen". What the fuck is this, the fifteenth century? Come on.

[rossmum]

Not necessarily, 9mm. There's more to a country than current events, you should know that as a Brit...

e/ Rob, that would rather suggest that monarchies are anything but obsolete. Besides, it's a matter of tradition and national history - what about those idiots that shoot off fireworks on the fourth of July?

[bobbysoon]

the quality of life thing's being good depends on the spreading it around thing. From what I heard about america's economic expendature pie-chart thing, nothin gets spread around like our ordinance does. That's some quality death.

[ExAm]

Precisely, and they are both very touchy subjects for Americans.

The situation in India has targeted British and Americans for their actions, I think we both should should take this reality check and realise that we aren't untouchable and not owners of the world.

Rob, I do have a question for you, in your first post you say
"Well gorramit, I am liberal, I'm in college, I'm against the Iraq war, I'm disillusioned with politics, and yet I for one am still proud to be an American."

How on earth can you still be proud to be American, when that is the heart and sole of what America is. When you say it, your saying "I'm proud of my countries actions, and support the views"Incorrect. You can be proud of the land that is your country without being proud of its government or its government's actions overseas, or the percentage of people in the country who support them.

[Timo]

Rob, I do have a question for you, in your first post you say
"Well gorramit, I am liberal, I'm in college, I'm against the Iraq war, I'm disillusioned with politics, and yet I for one am still proud to be an American."

How on earth can you still be proud to be American, when that is the heart and sole of what America is. When you say it, your saying "I'm proud of my countries actions, and support the views"


How can you think that the war in Iraq is the heart and soul of America? I like being a New Zealander, but that doesn't mean there's absolutely nothing I don't like about it. Nuclear free? Stupid idea.

E: oh damn looks like i'm late to the party, didn't see the last few posts.

[bobbysoon]

"American pride" and "white pride" have commonality. Personally, I'd drop the "pride" part. There may, after all, be a reason it's a cardinal sin. "I'm an american" or "I'm white" states a fact, without suggesting or implying anything else about anyone else

Wiki->Cardinal Sins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins#Pride_.28Latin.2C_superbia.29)->Pride:
Pride (Latin, superbia)

Main article: Pride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride)
In almost every list pride (or hubris or vanity) is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and indeed the ultimate source from which the others arise. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to give compliments to others though they may be deserving of them,[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] and excessive love of self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante's definition was "love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one's neighbor." In Jacob Bidermann's medieval (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval) miracle play (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_play), Cenodoxus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenodoxus), pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the titulary famed Parisian doctor. In perhaps the best-known example, the story of Lucifer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer), pride (his desire to compete with God) was what caused his fall from Heaven, and his resultant transformation into Satan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan). Vanity and narcissism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism) are prime examples of this sin. In Dante's Divine Comedy, the penitent were forced to walk with stone slabs bearing down on their backs in order to induce feelings of humility.

[Skill]

PROTIP: Most of us aren't Catholic.

[bobbysoon]

I'm not either, but I can see how pride can complicate things

[rossmum]

I consider pride to me more of an awareness and a sense of closeness or loyalty to something than "I'M BETTER THAN YOU, I'M SUPERIOR" myself

[Limited]

The real question is, what exactly does it mean to be "proud to be an...", some of the documentaries I've seen amazes me, people in the south (texas etc) they interview them, they go crazy and make tons of noise, saying they are proud to be American, yet once asked they couldnt actually say why and what they thought they're country had achieved to be proud of.

I am in no way saying America has nothing to be proud of, and I'm not calling any of you one of these dumb southerns, I'm just saying, people have lost touch of want it really means, and what being patriotic means.

And god, dont even get my on about the Queen, shes useless, she asked for $100mill of tax payers money to "renervate her castle" last year, my god the place was already spotless. THeres only ONE good thing about the QUeen, our priminster has to look up to her, sometimes I wish USA had a king/queen, then bush would have some one to sink sense into him.

Unless the monarchy leads us into battle, its bloody useless in the 21st centary.

[Skill]

Unless the monarchy leads us into battle, its bloody useless in the 21st centary.
The monarchy provides a kind of moral support for countries that have it, even if the monarch is pretty much a powerless figurehead. It's easier to say "God save the queen" than "God save the government," especially since the monarchy doesn't actually do anything, as opposed to the government, which may do stuff you don't agree with.