Building a computer? Need advice/suggestions? Come here!

[Cortexian]

However it's the lowest frequency memory that we stock for the Dominator Platinum series. It does give slightly better performace, not a lot, and probably not worth it, but I don't really give a fuck. The Dominator Platinum memory is awesome looking and I'm going for a very sleek looking system considering the amount of money I plan on spending on it.

I'd say the X79-UP4 is probably of better value than the 3930k TBH.

[Warsaw]

Low Profile Vengeance 1600 MHz. Cheaper, sleeker.

As for value, I was merely talking from a performance standpoint. Your motherboard is going to affect your performance rather insignificantly in comparison.

[Cortexian]

I'm going water cooling so I don't care about the LP memory, and the heatsinks on the normal Vengeance and Dominator memory DO actually dissipate slightly more heat than the LP modules. I'm not going to water cool the memory so the nice heatsinks on the memory are handy. They also look great when you have a bank of Platinum modules installed.

The lightbars on the Dominator memory are hot as well.

[leorimolo]

My friend gave me a challenge to build him a computer to use professionally with MAYA photoshop etc. Seeing as how most of you use these on the regular bases I wanted to see what you thought of the build.
PCPartPicker part list (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/UlQJ) / Price breakdown by merchant (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/UlQJ/by_merchant/) / Benchmarks (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/UlQJ/benchmarks/)


CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80637i73770k) ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H60 74.4 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-cpu-cooler-cwch60) ($69.98 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gaz77nwifi) ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cml16gx3m2a1600c10) ($116.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sandisk Extreme 240GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/sandisk-internal-hard-drive-sdssdx240gg25) ($179.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st31000524as) ($67.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Video Card (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-video-card-02gp43664kr) ($260.00 @ Newegg)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (White) Mini ITX Tower Case (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/bitfenix-case-bfcpro300wwxkwrp) ($79.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Enthusiast 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-cmpsu650txv2) ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On IHAS324-98 DVD/CD Writer (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/lite-on-optical-drive-ihas32498) ($22.29 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS239H-P 23.0" Monitor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-monitor-vs239hp) ($144.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VS239H-P 23.0" Monitor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-monitor-vs239hp) ($144.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1492.17
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-01 18:39 EDT-0400)

So yeah I went with 3770K and 660 TI. I'm wondering tho if for Maya PS and video editing a server class CPU would be more useful than having the 660ti.

Also, this setup is also meant to be a hackintosh.

[Btcc22]

Low Profile Vengeance 1600 MHz. Cheaper, sleeker..

Agreed. The Vengeance's heatsinks reminded me of a cockatoo's crest. That and massive heatsinks on RAM are nothing more than gimmicks.

[Warsaw]

PCPartPicker? Never heard of it. I do all of my research the old fashioned way, by digging through Google search results. Though for actual purchase, I normally jump straight to NewEgg and call it a day; less hassle. Good choice on Nvidia for the GPU though, better support from appropriate content-production software. I would probably ditch the Seagate for a Samsung Spinpoint or a WD Caviar Black. SanDisk thus far seems to have a decent track record with SSDs, but I'd personally go with Crucial M4, Samsung 830/840, or Plextor M5.


I'm going water cooling so I don't care about the LP memory, and the heatsinks on the normal Vengeance and Dominator memory DO actually dissipate slightly more heat than the LP modules. I'm not going to water cool the memory so the nice heatsinks on the memory are handy. They also look great when you have a bank of Platinum modules installed.

The lightbars on the Dominator memory are hot as well.

I have water cooling. Sure, it's closed loop, but I chose the LP Vengeance entirely on its looks, since for the price there wasn't anything better performance-wise. If your RAM is actually overheating at all, then you either have an airflow problem in your build or you've pushed the overclocking too far, as RAM doesn't generally get that hot.

I just don't see how you can justify the price jump for Dominators given the lack of any appreciable benefit. If you were building an AMD rig (lol, Freelancer not using Intel/Nvidia...rich), sure.

[leorimolo]

PCPartPicker? Never heard of it. I do all of my research the old fashioned way, by digging through Google search results.
Its not a noob tool to make 1337 gaming pc's. General idea is to build the entire system and it automatically finds the cheapest way to build it, and at the same time depending on specs it can give you expected benchmarks of your setup.

Also please you people that use Maya, more CPU and less GPU or more GPU?

[Warsaw]

I was being sincere, I had honestly not ever heard of it until this thread.

[Amit]

PCPartPicker is popular with the Reddit community. Their /r/BuildAPC (http://reddit.com/r/buildapc) subreddit is highly useful for discussion on these things and PCPartPicker's mardown export option makes it easy to display your components in your thread on Reddit. If you want a source outside of Modacity, you could use Reddit and the PCPartPicker community itself. I always find some cool new insights from both.

Lifehacker put it perfectly:


Next, we've decided to use PCPartPicker (http://pcpartpicker.com/) to put together our builds. We love it, and think you should use it too—it gives you more flexibility in your part buying, helps you eliminate possibly incompatible components, and makes sure you get he best prices for the items you plan to buy, even if it means you have to buy them from different retailers.

[Cortexian]

Yeah PCPartPicker is awesome, we actually had someone at work contact us about /r/BuildAPC wanting to know if we could help them out with some discounts in exhange for some publicity on Reddit.

Speaking of which, I'm not paying retail for any of this. The Dominator memory has some crazy markup on it, so don't worry I'm not paying retail price!

[Warsaw]

Well, that's a relief about the Dominator price. Just such a waste for what it is; the only worse value out there would be the Core i7-3960X.

[Cortexian]

Any Intel Extreme processor more like. Now I'm going to have to look up the costs on those at work tomorrow... I bet they're not marked up much though, like the Titans.

Anyway, the process has begun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S63euAHsF-U

[Amit]

Gigabyte teases high-res UEFI interface for motherboards supporting Haswell:

http://www.techspot.com/fileshost/newspics3/2012/gigabyte-z87-uefi.jpeg

[Cortexian]

That color scheme makes me think they stuck with the black/orange colors that the Z77-UD7 used.

Gross.

[Warsaw]

Fuck UEFI, bunch of trojan-horse garbage-ware.

[InnerGoat]

lol wow, someone's upset

[Cortexian]

Yea I'm not really a fan of UEFI either, never had issues with the regular old BIOS menus. I'm glad they include them since I'd rather use that then UEFI.

[Warsaw]

lol wow, someone's upset

Its entire existence is based around giving software vendors (like Microsoft) the ability to lock down hardware at the firmware level. It's an infection lying dormant, waiting to be sprung on us when the time is right, i.e. when Microsoft finally kills off the traditional home PC (which is actually what Windows 8 is all about starting). Except, luckily for us, that won't happen.

But seriously, there is nothing UEFI does that a brand new version of BIOS wouldn't have been able to do, and who the fuck needs mouse support and pretty colours here? Who honestly asked for that?

[Amit]

Who honestly asked for that?

Fags.

[ThePlague]

This should be your next build freelancer:
PVOL7Fbd6go

[Amit]

^ should be his current build. You're not true enthusiast until you have 4 Titans XD

[ThePlague]

It's like buttfucking your electricity bill each day.

[Cortexian]

Don't joke, I'm thinking of getting the ASRock X79 Extreme11 motherboard so I can add two more Titans to the two I have planned (in the future as need arises).

I'm already planning on a 7680x1600 monitor layout as well. Actually I'm planning 4800x2560 but that's just a different orientation.

Edit: When I say "so I can add two more Titans" I'm referring to the fact that the GA-X79-UP4 only supports two cards at PCI-E 3.0 x16 speed. The ASRock X79 Extreme11 supports four. Is that really required? Not sure, it MIGHT BE for quad or Tri-SLI. The X79-UP4 can do quad SLI but every lane would be at x8 speed.

[PlasbianX]

Just built this tonight:

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5-3.9GHz Turbo Unlocked LGA1155 77W http://amzn.to/KuaDEU
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H-WB 2xLAN 4xUSB3 LGA1155 WiFi http://amzn.to/16NKhHQ
RAM: Corsair 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600MHz http://amzn.to/NC6ltT
Graphics: Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 3GB Boost Dual Fans http://amzn.to/10mI9mm

Went with a 2 TB harddrive as well as a 250GB SSD. Case isnt anything special, just some antec case with a 850W power supply. Oh, and this fan: http://amzn.to/ABOrr2

Im excited. Gonna dread installing the software tomorrow, but excited to have this.

[Cortexian]

Looks awesome, let me know how you fell about the motherboard in general and how the BIOS handles.

[PlasbianX]

Looks awesome, let me know how you fell about the motherboard in general and how the BIOS handles.

Everything so far seems great. I'm able to run any game I want to play on max settings with no hassle at all. I'm interested to copy my license of 3DS Max from my old PC to this though and try doing some renders to see how fast they turn out.

I did have an issue though that I'm unaware of the cause.. last night I was using origin to download my free copy of crysis and left my pc on overnight. Woke up to it bluescreening. Started the download again earlier and it bluescreened when the download got to 99% (however I was also running BF2:BC at the same time). I'm watching it now and its at 96% so im interested to see what it does this time..

[Amit]

Possible overheating?

[PlasbianX]

Possible overheating?

Could be.. I know i have my fans set to run at normal speed but ill set my bios to let me know what their temp is if they get too hot.

[Cortexian]

http://i.imgur.com/Ijhoc1k.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1mwwFdi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/95I6svr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1O1T87v.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TFlB8v5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v9HUHzA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4U4xbEI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kuBIs8p.jpg

[Warsaw]

Big RAM is big.

I see that you went with the Gigabyte board and not the ASRock. Do let us know how the UEFI implementation is, with pictures.

[InnerGoat]

not enough ram!

[Cortexian]

I can go 32GB really easily. However I have 16GB of memory right now and it suits my needs as of now.

[Amit]

I can go 32GB really easily. However I have 16GB of memory right now and it suits my needs as of now.

You're enthusiast. Get the 32GB and run a big RAMdisk or something.

[Cortexian]

Well 32GB just means buying another pack. I'll do that in the future, but if I want a RAMdisk I'll have to go 64GB at least :P

[Zeph]

Wouldn't bother with 32 unless you regularly use more than 8. I've tried to use 16GB and short of stupidly/needlessly large raster work I couldn't fill up much more than 10GB.

[Amit]

Wouldn't bother with 32 unless you regularly use more than 8. I've tried to use 16GB and short of stupidly/needlessly large raster work I couldn't fill up much more than 10GB.

^ Why I don't have more than 8GB installed.

[Btcc22]

^ Why I don't have more than 8GB installed.

Yeah, most people don't need more than eight, for now. It is nice to have the headroom though.

Like Zeph, I tend to hover around 10GB during day to day use of the machine (I leave a lot open) but that includes the OS gobbling up a good amount for caching that it could manage fine without.



I see that you went with the Gigabyte board and not the ASRock.

Probably a good choice if they're still using Etron's USB 3 controller*. The grief I've had with USB connections spazzing out on this board; unresponsive devices, the machine being brought to its knees thanks to the driver, devices being disconnected/reconnected a dozen times a second until it bluescreens. :gonk:

*they are but it's not the same controller. I believe Gigabyte use them too anyway.

[Warsaw]

I did not have any issues with USB controllers with either ASRock board I have owned.


I can go 32GB really easily. However I have 16GB of memory right now and it suits my needs as of now.

X79 supremacy! _o/

[Zeph]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6934/choosing-a-gaming-cpu-single-multigpu-at-1440p

Hmm, it seems that CPUs aren't as crucial to game performance nowadays. I guess the software engineering side of gaming has really changed since the GHz war tapered out. I remember back when people still didn't really have GPUs that could give players their team colors in Halo. Moving from a 2.6GHz to a 2.8GHz Pentium 4 would give you 5 more fps. Now, there's pretty much no difference at all.

[Cortexian]

X79 supremacy! _o/
\o_

And yeah, I upgraded my current rig to 16GB because Adobe Premiere gobbles as much memory as is available when scrubbing through footage.

[Amit]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6934/choosing-a-gaming-cpu-single-multigpu-at-1440p

Hmm, it seems that CPUs aren't as crucial to game performance nowadays. I guess the software engineering side of gaming has really changed since the GHz war tapered out. I remember back when people still didn't really have GPUs that could give players their team colors in Halo. Moving from a 2.6GHz to a 2.8GHz Pentium 4 would give you 5 more fps. Now, there's pretty much no difference at all.

That's assuming all games are well optimized. The ones that they used in the benchmark are not really demanding at all on the CPU. However, slap some BF3, Arma 2/3, and Planetside 2 in there and we'd see how much a good CPU is needed these days for gaming. Poorly optimized games (may or may not be the fault of the devs) are still heavily prevalent these days. Hell, even decently optimized games such as BF3 and Metro Last Light still require good CPUs to run them on very high, and max settings.

[Warsaw]

Metro? Decently optimized? Ha ha.

[Amit]

Metro? Decently optimized? Ha ha.

In comparison to 2033 :P

[PlasbianX]

Picked up a razer deathadder mouse for my build. Absolutely love it. Anyone have any good mechanical keyboards they'd recommend getting? I'm currently using a first generation logitech g15.

[Cortexian]

TRY a Razer BlackWidow 2013 (Ultimate or otherwise) and see if you like the blue switches. If not you might want to go with a different switch-type keyboard, although I don't see the point in getting a mechanical keyboard with switches that you can't actually feel the "click" on.

[Bodzilla]

Blue is a very enhanced and LOUD clicking, most people prefer and are better off with the browns.

[Amit]

I hate loud keyboards. What mechanical keyboard should I get if I wanted to do quiet typing? Does such a keyboard even exist?

[Cortexian]

I like blues because they stimulate ASMR for me, and it's absolutely awesome.

BTW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh3rFCxdQuk

[ThePlague]

I have reds and to me they're great, especially coming from a Microsoft Sidewinder X4.

[PlasbianX]

Can anyone explain what the colors mean? Reds? Blues?

[Cortexian]

Different styles of switches, some requre more pressure than others, some have a more distinctive "click" for tactile feedback, etc.

Also, bonus video for this weekend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Cyr6n_zyo

[ThePlague]

xDUyNY4CAGk

[Bodzilla]

I hate loud keyboards. What mechanical keyboard should I get if I wanted to do quiet typing? Does such a keyboard even exist?
black switches

[Cortexian]

Green switch supremacy.

[Warsaw]

Rubber dome supremacy!

Deal with it.

[Cortexian]

I can't deal with it, your statement has driven me to rampancy.

[ThePlague]

:crylancer:

[Cortexian]

http://i.imgur.com/jm6tcmW.png

[Warsaw]

:saggy:

[Cortexian]

http://i.imgur.com/75uIT6N.jpg

All I changed was the multi to 44.

[InnerGoat]

44 is quite a way from 50. keep working on it.

[Cortexian]

46 stable 77 degrees max. Will still be able to drop the temps.

[JackalStomper]

gtx 780's out. disgusting prices.

AMD get back in the game please we don't need another intel

[ThePlague]

Seems to be the trend lately with Nvidia. Overpriced and for fanboys.

[Btcc22]

gtx 780's out. disgusting prices.

AMD get back in the game please we don't need another intel

$850-$910 over here. Absolutely insane.

[Cortexian]

Seems to be the trend lately with Nvidia. Overpriced and for fanboys.
If AMD had anything that could compete the prices might come down, and we "fanboys" might consider them as a viable alternative.

The 780 is reasonably priced considering its performance. It's 5% slower than a Titan and 25% faster than a 680. What did you expect? Same price as a 680? LMAO you're dumb then.

$659.99 seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Btcc22]

The 780 is reasonably priced considering its performance. It's 5% slower than a Titan and 25% faster than a 680. What did you expect? Same price as a 680? LMAO you're dumb then.

I see Nvidia's marketing ploy worked very well on you.

[Zeph]

I see Nvidia's marketing ploy worked very well on you.
You know, ATI did the same thing when they had cards on the market that nVidia couldn't compete with. It's always been common practice to put cards with no competitor at a slightly higher price range than its relative performance would dictate.

[Btcc22]

You know, ATI did the same thing when they had cards on the market that nVidia couldn't compete with. It's always been common practice to put cards with no competitor at a slightly higher price range than its relative performance would dictate.

Sure, any business will do the same - it's just been taken a new level. I'm pointing out that Freelancer has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

[Cortexian]

Sure, any business will do the same - it's just been taken a new level. I'm pointing out that Freelancer has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
Considering the fact that I'm getting two Titans, the 780 pricing doesn't concern me. Keeping that in mind, and that I would be buying the best hardware available whenever I buy my PC, the fact that my system is costing about $5,000 is standard. Look back over the past 10 years, that's been a pretty standard price for a best-of-everything system.

I haven't "fallen" for anything except being a computer enthusiast. It comes with a high price-tag, and since computers are my passion and hobby, it's not really that high of a price for a system that'll last me at least 6 years. You can also remake a good amount of money by using the best GPU's on the market for a couple of years, then selling them and buying the newest "best cards". You never really pay more than $200 for the next top-of-the-line card, as long as you can keep affording to upgrade.

Btw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZqh36pL45U

As requested here's a video on the BIOS. I actually really like it, it makes the common overclocking settings easy to access in the "3D mode" and the advanced settings are fairly standard. You can actually see that the advanced settings are basically just a good old fashion BIOS layout with some fancier graphics.

[Btcc22]

Considering the fact that I'm getting two Titans, the 780 pricing doesn't concern me.

Doesn't matter if the pricing doesn't concern you. Calling the pricing "perfectly reasonable" is a sure sign that you've fallen for the marketing tactics. You justified it by indirectly referencing the Titan's price. That's exactly what Nvidia wants.

Now, I'm sure plenty of us saw the price hike coming but it has nothing to do with the performance increase of the cards as you imply. It's roughly in line with what you'd expect from a new generation of cards, if you dare to call the 7xx series 'new'.

There's nothing reasonable about the pricing. It's merely Nvidia seeing how much they can get away with.

[Zeph]

Sure, any business will do the same - it's just been taken a new level. I'm pointing out that Freelancer has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
Well, assuming nVidia was out to give you the shittiest card for the most amount of money possible I'd agree with you. This is a case of them putting something out there that's in a class of its own and setting the price to match. If AMD puts out an 8k series card that relatively underperforms or is on par with while being priced higher than the 780, that would be what you're describing as marketing ploy.

[Btcc22]

Well, assuming nVidia was out to give you the shittiest card for the most amount of money possible I'd agree with you.

It could be argued that they are, regardless of whether AMD is competing with a single card solution. There's been plenty of fuss over Nvidia releasing mid-range stuff as top-end though, so I won't cover that.

Either way, I disagree with your idea of a marketing ploy. That's just being overpriced. Many are justifying the price of the 780 in terms of the Titan - an incredibly overpriced card to begin with. If that isn't marketing, I don't know what is.

Take a look at the RRPs of top-end cards for the last generations and it should be clear that things are on an upwards trend. For now, we can look forwards to paying previous top-end prices for mid-range cards.

[Cortexian]

I think you're being to much of an idealist. Nvidia is a business, and businesses are in the game of making money. They know they have the best cards available right now, in the case of the Titan, it was released with such high specs at the time that it warranted being a $1,000 card. Nothing could come close to touching it in AMD's line.

It's perfectly reasonable from a realistic perspective, and there are no "marketing ploys" to be seen, just smart business sense on Nvidia's part. Stop being a sore consumer.

[Btcc22]

I think you're being to much of an idealist.

Where exactly was I being an idealist? 'Smart business sense' doesn't preclude marketing ploys, it includes them.

A business can price their products however they see fit but that doesn't mean I have to agree with their valuation. Just as you're free to believe that the Titan warrants the price and buy as many of them as you can afford, I'm free to believe that it was an overpriced marketing piece and an incredibly foolish investment to make for most that bought them.

There is no 'sore consumer', only sensible consumer.

[Cortexian]

It's not like $1,000 cards are anything new. All of the dual-core GPU's and special edition cards have been up there or even higher. That's the standard price for all Nvidia and AMD enthusiast cards. The GTX X80 and HD X970 cards are starting to edge into the enthusiast realm, while the GTX X70 and HD X950 series are becoming the standard high performance cards.

That's why their prices are shooting up to match. Intel and Nvidia are going to obviously keep taking advantage of AMD's limitless failure to compete. If you can't see the value in enthusiast cards though (including their resell value), then sucks to be you. I'll be able to sell both my Titans in a couple of years for $800 and spend a couple hundred more to get the next latest-and-greatest enthusiast cards. Rinse and repeat for 6-8 years.

[Btcc22]

It's not like $1,000 cards are anything new. All of the dual-core GPU's and special edition cards have been up there or even higher. That's the standard price for all Nvidia and AMD enthusiast cards. The GTX X80 and HD X970 cards are starting to edge into the enthusiast realm, while the GTX X70 and HD X950 series are becoming the standard high performance cards.

It's more understandable that the dual GPU cards are higher priced when they're essentially two top cards sandwiched together and typically represent a much larger performance boost than we've seen going from the 480/580/680/780. The special edition cards of which you likely speak are generally overpriced marketing pieces too, hence being special edition.


The GTX X80 and HD X970 cards are starting to edge into the enthusiast realm, while the GTX X70 and HD X950 series are becoming the standard high performance cards.

Even though there's not a huge difference between the x70 and x80 cards. Clearly the only distinction you're making between enthusiast and high performance is a huge leap in price.

As I've already said though, "high performance cards" are now going to be priced at what you would usually expect to pay for an "enthusiast card". The pricing tiers have been shifted, in part thanks to the Titan. Even last gen cards have no reason to drop in price with this strategy. Hopefully AMD will present a solid line-up and drive them back to where they were.


If you can't see the value in enthusiast cards though (including their resell value), then sucks to be you. I'll be able to sell both my Titans in a couple of years for $800 and spend a couple hundred more to get the next latest-and-greatest enthusiast cards. Rinse and repeat for 6-8 years.

I highly suspect that your Titans' resale value going to depreciate by more than 20% in the next couple of years. It's already taken a huge knock today.


AMD's limitless failure to compete

Citation required.

[Warsaw]

AMD having nothing that can touch the Titan is unequivocally false. The HD 7990 outperforms the GTX 690, the the GTX 780, and the GTX Titan. You can say "oh, but it's a dual chip" all you want, but that was not a parameter. Given that the GTX 690 also outperforms the GTX Titan, I'd call that impressive. AMD also dominated Nvidia's performance during the HD 7000-series vs. GTX 600-series battle, producing better numbers in benchmarks and in most games. AMD frame times were vastly more consistent. I expect the HD 8000-series to be at least on par with GK110, though I won't be at all surprised if it outperforms. AMD has been on a slow, steady march upwards in performance that Nvidia has only just barely managed to stay ahead of until HD 7000, where AMD finally caught and surpassed them. Unless Nvidia has a real game-changing architecture, I don't see them reclaiming the dominance they enjoyed between the GeForce 7000 and the GTX 500 series.

So really, AMD not even remotely competing? Please. The only ace Nvidia has is PhysX and it's a borderline case at that. The industry is stupid for even using it at all post-acquisition. A closed standard is a bad standard. You want the best of the best? You should have bought two HD 7990s.

[Cortexian]

It over performs in synthetic benchmarks. Dual-GPU cards have always had really bad driver support and real world support in games. That is why the Titan is still the best bet in the market today.

[Warsaw]

It did well in games, too. Also, the 7970 was a more powerful card than the 680, so where are the points for that? AMD won the contest last generation, plain and simple.

[=sw=warlord]

It over performs in synthetic benchmarks. Dual-GPU cards have always had really bad driver support and real world support in games. That is why the Titan is still the best bet in the market today.
If Nvidia are so great then that must be why both the next xbox and ps4 are using AMD right?

[InnerGoat]

Nvidia actually turned away the offer last i read. They like their high margin hardware :ohdear:

[Zeph]

More like they're more invested in the idea of phones becoming low-end home computers more than consoles getting another refresh.
A year and a half from now is when nVidia's roadmap has them connecting your phone to wireless monitors, keyboards, and mice for computing.

[Cortexian]

AMD GPU's are also much more affordable, we all know that every single console sold is a profit loss. They already cost more to produce than they retail for... Going AMD was their only option really.

[Warsaw]

Eh, for a given price-point the performance levels are too similar for that to be a reason. More likely is that the AMD solution is integrated and there is no comparable offering from Nvidia on account of them lacking an x86 license.

[Cortexian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atcGEdA2L-A

http://i.imgur.com/p4HJ9yF.gif

Oh my...

[Btcc22]

Oh my...

Welcome to the club. ;)

[Zeph]

Who here's had to RMA through EVGA? Video is flickering through two of my 590's DVI ports and I'm the process of talking with support. What's likely to happen? For some reason I doubt they have 590s in the back room to ship back to me.

[Warsaw]

With any luck, you'll get a 690. :D

[Cortexian]

They have to give you something of equivalent specification/speed. You'll get a refurbished card either way, most likely a 590 (it's not that old). You might luck out and get a 690 or a couple of 670's or something.

[Amit]

So what do you guys think of the Haswell line up? I'm thinking about building another PC before the year is out. Maybe something a bit smaller in a mATX case, but with more performance than my current machine. I'm not sure about it yet, though. I'm still skeptical about going back to Intel when it comes to future upgrades considering there's a new socket for this generation of Core processors.

[Tnnaas]

So, I made a deal with my step-dad. He purchased his last PC for about $500 with the intent of using it for video games. Sadly, he bought it prebuilt from a store, and it lacks any sort of official capacity to play games. The bet was that I could build him a decent gaming PC, capable of playing much more modern and demanding games, for under $500. The rule is, with the budget of $500, whatever isn't used to pay for the PC he will give to me.

He believes it's not possible. He's not really well informed.

CPU: Intel Pentium G860 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80623g860) ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI H61M-P31/W8 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h61mp31w8) ($45.88 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Smart Tracer 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-memory-blt2kit2g3d1608dt2txrg) ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/toshiba-internal-hard-drive-dt01aca050) ($54.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB Video Card (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-video-card-r7770pmd1gd5) ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Athena Power CA-GSB01DA (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/athena-power-case-cagsb01da) ($27.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Logisys 575W ATX12V Power Supply (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/logisys-power-supply-ps575xbk) ($21.98 @ Outlet PC)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/lite-on-optical-drive-ihas124-04) ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $337.78 Shipping, taxes, and discounts included.

I think I'm going to pocket a little over $150.

EDIT: And I am so completely in love with PCPartPicker. <3

[Warsaw]

So what do you guys think of the Haswell line up? I'm thinking about building another PC before the year is out. Maybe something a bit smaller in a mATX case, but with more performance than my current machine. I'm not sure about it yet, though. I'm still skeptical about going back to Intel when it comes to future upgrades considering there's a new socket for this generation of Core processors.

If you have Sandy or Ivy, there is no point to Haswell.

[ejburke]

So, a guy I know is wanting to get a new computer to play CoH 2, because his old one is 5-1/2 years old and he has been playing everything at lowest settings for the past year plus. Do you guys think it's worth it to go full i7 4770 (8 threads/8MB L3/$320) or be more frugal with an i5 4670 (4 threads/6MB L3 cache/$230)? From what I can tell, the difference in performance is 5-10% in most applications and about 10-20% in tasks that rely heavily on multi-threading. Does that justify a 40% increase in price?

And I'm not talking about the K models. He's not going to overclock. The only wrinkle is that the 4770K has a slightly higher base clock than the locked version, so I can't tell from these reviews how much of the extra performance over the 4670 is coming from the extra threads/cache and how much is due to the higher frequency. If we go with the i7, it will be the 3.4 GHz 4770 and not the 3.5 GHz 4770K.

[Btcc22]

I think I'm going to pocket a little over $150.


You're either going to pocket less than $1 or you've probably not stretched the $500 far enough. That or you're a cheat. ;)

[Tnnaas]

You're either going to pocket less than $1 or you've probably not stretched the $500 far enough. That or you're a cheat. ;)
$500 - $337.78 = $162.22

I pocket the difference from between the budget and the price of the components. I'm not expecting that I'm going to receive exactly the amount I just checked, but I know I'm going to land around there. That's what the whole thing is about. And I'm cheating anyways because all my step-dad needs is a graphics card, some RAM, and maybe a new processor. But building a computer from the ground up is fun, so I went and selected everything I would need.

[Btcc22]

$500 - $337.78 = $162.22

My point was that you could easily utilise that spare money to build an even better machine, so why wouldn't you? Ah, right.

[ThePlague]

So, I made a deal with my step-dad. He purchased his last PC for about $500 with the intent of using it for video games. Sadly, he bought it prebuilt from a store, and it lacks any sort of official capacity to play games. The bet was that I could build him a decent gaming PC, capable of playing much more modern and demanding games, for under $500. The rule is, with the budget of $500, whatever isn't used to pay for the PC he will give to me.

He believes it's not possible. He's not really well informed.

CPU: Intel Pentium G860 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80623g860) ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI H61M-P31/W8 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h61mp31w8) ($45.88 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Smart Tracer 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-memory-blt2kit2g3d1608dt2txrg) ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/toshiba-internal-hard-drive-dt01aca050) ($54.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB Video Card (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-video-card-r7770pmd1gd5) ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Athena Power CA-GSB01DA (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/athena-power-case-cagsb01da) ($27.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Logisys 575W ATX12V Power Supply (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/logisys-power-supply-ps575xbk) ($21.98 @ Outlet PC)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/lite-on-optical-drive-ihas124-04) ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $337.78 Shipping, taxes, and discounts included.

I think I'm going to pocket a little over $150.

EDIT: And I am so completely in love with PCPartPicker. <3

Why are you going with intel? And i'd at least get a 7790 for him, they've been going on sale on and off lately.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1&IsNodeId=1&Description=7790&bop=And&Order=RATING&PageSize=20

(http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1&IsNodeId=1&Description=7790&bop=And&Order=RATING&PageSize=20)And you can check here time to time to get cheaper deals.
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/

[ThePlague]

AMD released more APU's, codenamed Richland:
http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/products/Pages/invincible.aspx

[Amit]

$500 - $337.78 = $162.22

I pocket the difference from between the budget and the price of the components. I'm not expecting that I'm going to receive exactly the amount I just checked, but I know I'm going to land around there. That's what the whole thing is about. And I'm cheating anyways because all my step-dad needs is a graphics card, some RAM, and maybe a new processor. But building a computer from the ground up is fun, so I went and selected everything I would need.

Be a good kid and put the rest of the money into a better CPU/GPU for Father's Day.

[Cortexian]

So what do you guys think of the Haswell line up? I'm thinking about building another PC before the year is out. Maybe something a bit smaller in a mATX case, but with more performance than my current machine. I'm not sure about it yet, though. I'm still skeptical about going back to Intel when it comes to future upgrades considering there's a new socket for this generation of Core processors.
As Warsaw said, if you already have a Sandy or Ivy system the Haswell chips aren't worth the upgrade. If you're building a new PC though, you might as well take advantage of the new tech.

Personally, I plan to build the most powerful gaming rig I can fit into a Mini ITX box later this year... Likely going into a BitFenix Prodigy or Silverstone FT03. LANBox for when I go to the various local LANs I plan to, and when I'm at home using my soon to be completed beast it'll be a Folding@Home rig. When friends come over they'll have a system to game on as well. I will likely be using a Haswell i7 for this rig (would of gone i5, but F@H benifits from the i7), in addition to a dual GPU card like the GTX 690 or HD 7990.

[Warsaw]

Anybody else see AMD's new 220W Piledriver parts? 4.8GHz base, 5.0GHz turbo...fucking nasty in both good and bad ways.

[InnerGoat]

They've been rumored for many months now. Stupidly hot and hungry cpus for the enthusiast. :/

[Zeph]

Anybody else see AMD's new 220W Piledriver parts? 4.8GHz base, 5.0GHz turbo...fucking nasty in both good and bad ways.

Can those even be cooled traditionally?
I mean, wouldn't AMD have to include vapor chamber sinks or something just to ensure they don't melt in default retail configuration?

[Warsaw]

I have no idea, but I hope nobody tries air cooling with that. Without a doubt, these will require certified motherboards to use. Seeing how scalar AMD's current architecture is, though, I'm excited to see the numbers.

[InnerGoat]

I'd expect one of those all in one water coolers to come with the cpu, if any heatsink at all. Looking forward to whatever AMD puts out, and Intel's response.

[Cortexian]

Intel won't have to respond since their existing shit (Or Ivy Bridge-E) will perform better anyway. Not to mention that 5GHz is easily attainable on a delidded Haswell.

[Amit]

^ that was my understanding since Sandy Bridge.

[InnerGoat]

As if Intel will ever launch Ivy-E ... lmao

They don't care about the enthusiast :(

[Zeph]

Isn't it supposed to be on the next smaller process?

[Amit]

Picked up an XFX HD 7850 1GB today. Runs everything maxed at 1680x1050 upwards of 50fps average haha. Arma 3 and PS2, here I come.

[Warsaw]

PS2 favours Nvidia, just a heads-up.

[Amit]

I know.

[Cortexian]

Got a new case for my current rig (not the new one I'm building):
http://i.imgur.com/TnDNQpP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zHN3TCn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LhchS8d.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PqGsLVj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TYNX6pl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jO3YKd8.jpg

[ThePlague]

Where's your other card at?

[Cortexian]

In my new system until I get my first Titan. X79 has no IGP, so I had to use my second 470 in order to do any testing.

[ThePlague]

Ah nice.

[Cortexian]

Probably going to sell the second 470 once my new system is up and running anyway. Won't need it since the plan for my current system = semi-mobile headless file server. I'm going to buy 3 x 4TB WD RE drives and put them in a small RAID 5, copy my existing 7.2 TB to it, selling the 5 x 2TB drives I have now, then slowly buying more 4TB drives and expanding the array as I can afford to.

[Tnnaas]

I feel like I'm one step closer to joining the modern world.

http://i.imgur.com/sFWDvBF.png

And I'm still looking over parts for my step-dad's computer (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?13689-Building-a-computer-Need-advice-suggestions-Come-here!&p=646551&viewfull=1#post646551). I haven't ordered anything yet, but I'm still open to suggestions. Please prevent me from being stupid, Modacity. thnx <3

EDIT: I've been using my new drive for fifteen minutes and I don't know how I'm going to use all this space. Pretty much my reaction right now (http://i.imgur.com/VdXiPF7.jpg).

[RedBaron]

I got commissioned by my friend to put together a desktop with gaming in mind for $600-$700. I haven't kept up to date with hardware for a few years, so any suggestions on parts would be great, otherwise I was just going to pick the top choices on Newegg and Tigerdirect that fit within my price range.

It will be $600-$700 for the tower only, so I don't have to worry about the display, speakers, peripherals, or anything else like that. I'm thinking it should have at least a current gen i5 quad core, 8 GB RAM at 1333 MHz or even 1600 MHz if I can manage the price, 500-550 Watt PSU, and an nvidia card that can be bought with whatever is left. I would also like to get an ATX full sized case with a raised mounting panel for wire concealment, and a 1TB 7200 rpm HDD from a respectable company. Let me know if you guys know of any good prices out there, or if you guys have had good experiences with specific cases that aren't too pricey.

[ThePlague]

Browse through here and you can find some nifty things
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/

[Cortexian]

Some thing:
http://i.imgur.com/R39e0zR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/j8u9GyG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZY4IL9c.jpg

[InnerGoat]

I only see one titan are you poor lmao

[InnerGoat]

send me the other one :-3

[Zeph]

BTW are you a chick, or do you just like pink ponnies?

[ThePlague]

BTW are you a chick, or do you just like pink ponnies?.

[InnerGoat]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1363440/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-owners-club/10610#post_20234459

[ThePlague]

Heh

[PlasbianX]

Kinda PC related but..

Does anyone know of any good gaming headsets? I have the turtlebeach earforce x11s currently and theyre causing the biggest headaches while playing. I'm looking for a good set with good quality for no more than $100 if possible.

[Cortexian]

Logitech G930
Logitech G35

Also,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awl9JtwvpGI

[Warsaw]

Kinda PC related but..

Does anyone know of any good gaming headsets? I have the turtlebeach earforce x11s currently and theyre causing the biggest headaches while playing. I'm looking for a good set with good quality for no more than $100 if possible.

I use Turtle Beach Z6As and I think they are great. They will require analogue 5.1 jacks, a mic jack, and a free USB port to function, though. If you want to use them with the Brobox, you're going to need their adapter. The headphones themselves have a break-in period; you'll get some slight headaches after extended play until they've conformed to your head.

[Cortexian]

So with NVIDIA Control Panel forcing FXAA and VSYNC off, I run Halo CE at the following FPS:
Avg: 454.479 - Min: 264 - Max: 770

I don't think it's high enough I'll have to disable FXAA.

[Btcc22]

That's probably for the better because FXAA is horrid. That blur. :(

[PlasbianX]

My girlfriend got me these for our anniversary. Headphone problem solved

KOTV99TXQlY

[ThePlague]

I own a pair and are wearing them right now. They're super comfortable and the sound is pretty great.

[Cortexian]

Picture time! Build still isn't completed, but all the important hardware is installed now!

http://i.imgur.com/OzfLxJQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BEIlubJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ijHFHtc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nTix7t6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AHJyTOq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BZWmuqC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pdjYw4u.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UvwH601.jpg

[=sw=warlord]

http://i.imgflip.com/2hyrl.jpg

[Patrickssj6]

hate those camera angles xD

also, it's all black. some green (cables?) matching the titans would have been nice :P

[PlasbianX]

I have that exact same case! Its nice!

Also, anyone have any good monitors? I'm looking for something relatively cheap but still good; going to need 2 to 3 of em.

[Warsaw]

So with NVIDIA Control Panel forcing FXAA and VSYNC off, I run Halo CE at the following FPS:
Avg: 454.479 - Min: 264 - Max: 770

I don't think it's high enough I'll have to disable FXAA.

Only 770?

[Cortexian]

hate those camera angles xD

also, it's all black. some green (cables?) matching the titans would have been nice :P
My plan is green cables, but I'm not going to worry about cable management until I get may water cooling stuff.

[InnerGoat]

be sure to get two more titans so you can play games faster

[=sw=warlord]

Only 770?
I may be wrong but I don't think SLI is supported by some older games which results in less than fantastic results.

[Warsaw]

I get more frames per second in Halo than that, though. Went over 900 last time I played a non-Sauce game.

[Cortexian]

I may be wrong but I don't think SLI is supported by some older games which results in less than fantastic results.
The Halo stats I posted were with one Titan.


I get more frames per second in Halo than that, though. Went over 900 last time I played a non-Sauce game.
I thought it was a well known fact that Nvidia and Halo PC/CE don't mesh as well as AMD does with Halo. Think about it, the camo doesn't even work properly on Nvidia cards.

[Warsaw]

Is that even still true? I mean, Source favoured ATI officially but it runs better on Nvidia...and now it endorses Nvidia.

[Zeph]

Is that even still true? I mean, Source favoured ATI officially but it runs better on Nvidia...and now it endorses Nvidia.

Probably. The whole cammo thing was from the way DX9 drivers worked with the API on shader models. ATI had something similar to what was used on the xbox and nVidia did not.

[Cortexian]

2013-07-21 00:18:10 - haloce
Frames: 162074 - Time: 141790ms - Avg: 1143.057 - Min: 572 - Max: 2102


Is that better?

[Dwood]

Hey guys, I know the front page of the thread hasn't been updated in ages, and I've been out of the loop for two years (le gasp!) and my only computer worth anything is in California and it's about 6 years old. I'd probably just upgrade the mobo and CPU if I had it with me, but that's not an option right now.

I wanted to pool in the tech resources we've got, and take a look at some good computer options. I've got about 4-6 months to have the computer parts shipped in and built, here we go:

Goals:
I'm looking at the $1,000 to $1,500 dollar range. This is going to come out of my own pocket, so either you can talk me up in terms of quality, or down considering I don't need much.

I already have a (cheap) keyboard and mouse, and old computer case + power supply. Seeing as how the usb 3.0/ Thunderbolt war currently going on I'm looking for either a dual purpose mo-bo OR just using the PCI slots to add expanders if the mobo is only one or the other.

OS - Windows 7. Not going to deal with Win 8. I have an iso of my own legal Win 7 I can use.

If I go cheap, I plan on upgrading, FO' SHO'

What will it do? I plan on doing light, light gaming and development for the Oculus rift which is planning on shipping /eventually/
I'm thinking:

$75-125 for PS,
$300 for a single video card,
$100-200 for a motherboard (I'm an AMD Fanboy tbh and I'm not going high-end, CPU so it fits imho) i'm curious of server motherboards, as long as things like multiple CPUS are optional to use - i'm interested because server mobo's seem to be more upgradeable. -what high-end desktop mobo options are there that would be compatible with a medium CPU? (I plan on upgrading at one point)
~$150 is as high as I think is reasonable for ram
I'm planning on the highest single stick of RAM possible within my price range. The minimum is 8 GB of RAM per stick, I'd like 16 gigs but from my searching, within my price range, 8 GB GDDR3 is likely...
http://www.pcnation.com/web/details.asp?item=DW4934
so far we're at ~$775.

So far, thoughts? Ideas on parts I can pick up? the first decision, imo, is the MoBo, because that decides the type of graphics card and CPU I can use.

I'm looking at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113287 or:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113327 for the CPU

(I'm an AMD fanboy, deal with it)

Edit:
This actually looks like a fairly decent combo... Or am I hallucinating?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1400908

[Warsaw]

The combo is pretty decent, but I would definitely want to get the FX-8350 if you want to consider they 8-core models. 4.0 GHz base clock, a slightly more efficient pipeline, still unlocked, and only $30 more. Might as well get the best, no? (FX-9-series doesn't count...unlike their Intel Extreme counterparts, they are simply overclocked versions of the more mainstream items).

I would also go with this motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514) because ratings and it does everything you need. I also have had good experiences with Gigabyte in the past. If you plan on overclocking, you want Asus, even if I think they are a load of over-hyped shit. Maybe the Sabertooth. They just have the best UEFI implementation around.

Also, I think your memory link is broken. It's taking me to a single-stick of 32 GB server memory priced at $1355. I don't think that's what you wanted. That said, wow has RAM gotten expensive since they shut down some of the manufacturing. I got 16 GB (4x4 GB) for $94. The same set (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233252) is now almost $190. Fucking insane. Anyways, you can get the 8 GB version for about the same price I paid for 16 GB, and I do recommend them because they are small enough to fit under most cooling solutions and they have nary a hiccup in sight. AMD also likes faster RAM more than Intel, so if you want to push up to 2133 that would be a wise move.

[InnerGoat]

That combo is the original bulldozer CPU which was very hot and power hungry. You're looking for the FX-8350 if you want AMD's 8 core. If your programs are highly multithreaded you should go with the 8350.

300 dollars for the GPU gets you a 3GB 7970 which is huge overkill for "light" gaming

here this might be of some help http://pcpartpicker.com/builds/?sort=rating#s=4&c=8

[Dwood]

That combo is the original bulldozer CPU which was very hot and power hungry. You're looking for the FX-8350 if you want AMD's 8 core. If your programs are highly multithreaded you should go with the 8350.

300 dollars for the GPU gets you a 3GB 7970 which is huge overkill for "light" gaming

here this might be of some help http://pcpartpicker.com/builds/?sort=rating#s=4&c=8

Well, by light gaming, I mean infrequent. I plan on playing games that are heavily taxing on a system, such as Crysis, etc. I just won't be doing it super often. It will also allow me to expand into the high resolutions when the Oculus Rift gets some upgrades and as games get more and more advanced. (We're rendering 2 separate 3d images/scenes at 1200x800 currently I believe)

Even then, though, I could do with a price drop i'm sure. I took a peek at that link... Here's my idea for the video card:
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/ati-video-card-100505610

it only has 512 MB memory, but that's the best I could see.. Let's see, what my old ATI Rad 4850's stats were... brb.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=FX-8350BOX

@Warsaw, the link's not broke, it was a joke.

I'm also very conscious of how bad the heat might turn out to be- I don't want to to do water cooling if I don't have to... This computer's going to have to make several moves as I'm going to college come Jan/Feb.

@ Warsaw, I love that Motherboard you sent! Good price. I love the idea of 4 PCI-E Slots, too!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=FX-8350BOX

Or this combo with the 7950:

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=XFX-795NFC

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-video-card-hd7950dc23gd5v2

Good idea on the drop in GB Inner Goat, I'm looking at the Radeon Sapphire right now, I think this would be a fantastic fit: The biggest difference I see is the memory drop and price drop. Lost a good $100 bucks. I'm not against NVidia cards if they're price/perf competitive, though.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-787GHZ2

[Warsaw]

When you say you will be playing demanding games infrequently, do you still want them at full-tilt settings? I would just go with the 7970 GHz Edition. Honestly, the extra overhead is worth it, and it's going to make a difference at higher resolutions. To put it in perspective, one of my 7970s (pre-GHz Edition, they are OG reference models) has a hard time running Metro 2033 at 2560x1440 completely smoothly. I bring this up because the Oculus Rift is supposed to be displaying two images at 1080p in stereoscopy. That is a lot of pixels to push. Even bringing it down to 1280x720 each, that's still the same amount of pixels as a 2560x1440 display.

Heat, well...you did want AMD. It's not going to be Intel cold, but if the CPU couldn't take the temperatures it generates, it wouldn't be on shelves and have great reviews. Also, I wouldn't be against liquid cooling. That closed-loop unit the FX-9370 comes with is the same one I have on my i7, and it does a remarkable job. It's also the same unit used by Corsair and others, I believe. Your idle temps will be higher than on air, but your load temps will be way better than the stock HSF that comes with the FX-8350. It's also really, really quiet.

[Dwood]

Heat, well...you did want AMD. It's not going to be Intel cold...

Okay, you made me want to google and see if there are any temperature benchmarks on heat- here's an article i've found on yahoo:

http://voices.yahoo.com/processor-temperatures-amd-versus-intel-3440928.html

Edit: So, that article didn't have any benchmarks. Let's take a peek at Tom's hardware.

I'm at minimum a month or two out from ordering the whole computer, so I'm not terribly concerned about doing the research to get best perf per dollar. If there's a big enough difference, I may just go with Intel.

[Dwood]

Double post: I've been looking, and i'm leaning towards the quad-core CPU's as opposed to the octo's, because I'm not really sure that the future is here yet to need 8 cores. In fact, wouldn't those 8 cores slow down older games designed for 1 core? or do you think the CPU's are just that fast so it doesn't matter?

[Donut]

I have never had my quad core slow down an older game designed for one core. If it actually does theoretically have an impact on the performance, the quad core is so damn fast anyway that you won't notice it. If it ever actually did have an issue, you can set a process to run on only certain cores. I think it's an option called "set affinity" when you right click on a process in windows task manager. We used to do that back in the day for sapien when dual cores were becomming a lot more common. I never had an issue there either, but I guess sapien didn't play nice with a lot of dual core processors.

[Zeph]

Double post: I've been looking, and i'm leaning towards the quad-core CPU's as opposed to the octo's, because I'm not really sure that the future is here yet to need 8 cores. In fact, wouldn't those 8 cores slow down older games designed for 1 core? or do you think the CPU's are just that fast so it doesn't matter?
you're already using multicore comfortably whether you realize it or not. The individual cores on an 8-core chip would far outperform a single core chip from years back. Even should you set affinity to a single core, your operating system still benefits from the remaining cores. As for your yahoo (lol yahoo news for computers) link, the only reason you need to worry about heat is if you've done your thermal paste wrong or you grossly overclock your hardware beyond what's stable for the tdp.

I know you said you were an AMD fanboy, but why not the following:
i5-3570k (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504) ~220
Asus Z77 mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131821) ~ 230 (bought an earlier version of this as a gimmick, but lol that heat shield works very well)
EVGA 760 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130944) ~ 320
4x4GB RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233330) ~ 160 (I know you said you wanted larger DIMMs, but I'm doing serious productivity and haven't used more than 12GB yet. You should at least make use of the extra channels for memory bandwidth.
Corsair PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139012) ~ 130 (overkill on the voltage, but has some of the nicest retail packaging I know of)

I assume you can canibalize everything else you need, such as hard drives, case, etc.
Just enters the lower end of your budget. Would handle the new branch of cryengine with rift support very well. If you're gonna bump anything up, bump the cpu up to an i7.
Anandtech doesn't have a bench on the 6350, but if you're comparing it against a 4300 I expect it to not be much of a difference. The i5 here does far better than the 4300.

The usb 3.0 and thunderbolt war isn't really a thing.
Thunderbolt was Apple's attempt at marketing a high speed standard proprietary to them so they could act like they had a leg up. It won't ever make a market share for itself, but publicly die quietly into an intel bus standard.
The usb design committee has already finalized specifications for a 10Gb/s standard for usb named 3.1 (I think). It's backwards compatible with all other USB and will start getting into the market in a year or two.
Dont buy into the hype, because neither clearly haven't started stocking the shelves of your local walmart.

[Dwood]

Holy moses Zeph is that a powerful GPU !

You actually have me interested in the heat cover, though. I'd be interested to looking into what else there is. I'm guessing that list is coming out to about ~1000.

I've actually looked on pcpartpicker which InnerGoat posted, and I can get a similar build for about $800: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1vsEK

I'm REALLY interested in the 4GB vs 2 GB, to see how big of a difference that could make. I mean, that could run crysis 3 twice holy freak. I think 2 of those monsters would be PLENTY, let alone one... I'm practically sold on the stats of that beast. Is there anything that has similar stats under $300? I saw some 3GB's for $250 I think, maybe xfiring or sli'ing them would be good.

I want this computer to be ready for the Oculus rift and other type of hmd's in the horizon (running them at 'full tilt'), and not likely purchasing a computer any time soon... I don't expect games to improve in quality exponentially, but rather I expect the devices that we use to get immensely better. /pcgaminsuperiority - it WILL win out eventually.


nH86II2CwdE


Yeah, I thought about it, and the earlier thing about usb 3.0 vs. thunderbolt isn't like hd-dvd vs blu-ray. I'm not even going to worry about it- taking a guess at usb 3.0 being the winner, as well, tbh.

[Zeph]

You shouldn't ever really be buying a gpu based solely on the RAM it has. A GTX 550ti with 8GB of RAM wouldn't beat a GTX 760 with 4GB. Nor would a 550 run twice as many games as once.....


The GTX 750 will probably be between 200-250 when it comes out, but I'm not sure when that is.
If you're looking at using the Rift seriously, I'd consider getting a 760 minimum with a 770 as safety for games that try to brute force the rendering.

[Dwood]

Sorry, I just glanced it over, didn't actually look at the specs in depth... :shrug:

[Dwood]

Quick question: Do video cards/mobo's do sound passthrough these days? I knew they were starting to do that around 2010/2011 for output via hdmi cables.

and 2nd: if so, do those hdmi outputs do surround sound as well? Or just stick with headphones?

3rdly: sound card?

[Cortexian]

yes
yes, personal preference (do you like headphones for those late night gaming sessions or noise cancelling? Or do you like speakers for their sheer awesome and other attributes?)
no

[Dwood]

yes
yes, personal preference (do you like headphones for those late night gaming sessions or noise cancelling? Or do you like speakers for their sheer awesome and other attributes?)
no

Headphones for immersion, surround for movies/blu ray... all of the above? While headphones would be more practical in the immediate situation (i'm talking like super nice dr. dre's or something, no in-your-ear crap) eventually I would like to experiment with surround (the home I live in has a receiver and full surround)

Edit:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1vxSl

So far, looking at $750. With that kind of price, I'm thinking of adding either a nice gaming keyboard or monitor. Midrange monitors anyone?

I may look at more nVidia GPU's, as well, as con suggested. I want to get an oculus rift and play Amnesia: Dark Descent on it. :)

Edit x2: I realized there's a computer with a working PSU in my basement I can salvage. BRB, checking wattage- i'll run it by you to see if it'd be enough.

X3: wattage on it is crap, 350W. I'd consider using perhaps 2 in one machine, but it's huge already, I don't think it would fit.

[Donut]

I assume by Dr. Dre you mean "Beats". They're ridiculously overpriced. You can get better stuff for a lot less. Or at least my friend says so, and he has llike 20000 dollars worth of audio equipment, so I'm inclined to believe him.

[Dwood]

I assume by Dr. Dre you mean "Beats". They're ridiculously overpriced. You can get better stuff for a lot less. Or at least my friend says so, and he has llike 20000 dollars worth of audio equipment, so I'm inclined to believe him.

Does he have any suggestions?

Edit, check my current build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1vK7e

i took out the monitor because i won't get it until after the computer is build, most likely. I'd love to have my other monitor that's in california b/c it was super nice. It wouldn't eliminate the need for a new one, but would alleviate it for a time.

[Cortexian]

Yeah don't get the Beats or the new Monster audio stuff. If you want a good headset for gaming use, look into the Logitech G35/G930 or some of the offerings from Razer (Tiamat, etc).

[Donut]

Does he have any suggestions?
$200 - 300 price range, he says Beyerdynamic DT880s, AKG K701, or K702 are nice. They would likely please you if you like the aesthetics of beats. He also says the K702 has a better sound stage, so those might be good if you're looking for super immersive sound (i.e. the headphones handle all ranges of sound frequencies well). You can probably find them used for 175 bucks, and if the ear pads are nasty you can replace them cheaply. Buying used also "opens the drivers", which I guess is the equivalent to "breaking them in".

Something cheaper, in the 70 - 160 dollar price range, Grado SR80i or SR60i, AKG K240, or Sony MDR-V6. He didn't say much about how those perform, but I was looking to buy an SR60i a while back. As somebody who takes a competitive approach to game play but also appreciates the fullness of game sound (as well as music), those SR60i's seemed to fit the bill really well. Plus they're less than 100 bucks, whereas a lot of those other ones are 200+ (which is fucking crazy if you're not an audiophile imo).

[Dwood]

If Flibit was still here i'd pester him- surely someone has flibit on steam?

[Warsaw]

To Zeph you should listen. Save you he can!

[Dwood]

To Zeph you should listen. Save you he can!

I am I am, it was harder than I thought to find (updated) GPU benches. Now I've seen that the Nvidia cards destroy ATi in almost every benchmark, i'm looking it up.

The latest ones are on anandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU13/583

Edit: I'm looking for the best price/perf ratio. I have a CD/DVD drive alread, so let's drop the Blu-Ray for now. What else can I canibalize? My thoughts are to buy high-end CPU/GPU/MoBo w/ a decent PSU, and the rest doesn't really matter. I want performance before function!

Phase-building a computer is harder than I thought. I'll take a peek at the benches of intel vs AMD in the proc section, as well.

[Warsaw]

AnandTech's GPU Bench (http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU13/583) isn't to your liking?

Best price/performance will come from an Intel/ATI combination, though it also depends on your performance target. I think Nvidia has some better mid-range options.

[Zeph]

To Zeph you should listen. Save you he can!
This is especially true since I've watched Empire twice today.

Phase building only works if you buy the best of something in each phase since by the time you wait for the next phase something better has already come out putting an even larger performance gap between best and worst available.

[Dwood]

AnandTech's GPU Bench (http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU13/583) isn't to your liking?

Best price/performance will come from an Intel/ATI combination, though it also depends on your performance target. I think Nvidia has some better mid-range options.

Anandtech is great. I'm used to relying on Tomshardware, and oddly the most recent benches they have are workstation benches, not gaming :/ Sad reality of the current gen is this: a lot of pc games these days are ports from consoles, so they don't take advantage of a lot of the power offered by PC's...

@ Zeph:

Yeah, I got that. I'm putting apps in for a bunch of jobs. If I can get another job or two, it will open the doors for me in getting a significantly better computer. If I were to spend a whole $300 on a single card, I'd want the perf ratio to be the best possible. Like, I don't want to pay $700 for an ati 7990 when I can pay ~600 for two 7950's and get similar performance.

I'm looking at benches- Essentially what's the most powerful game out there, and then let's take a recognized 3d bench, and see how much we're paying for that fps. If the Nvidia titan, for example, comes out to less FPS/Dollar, then I may as well go with the titan. It's not a perfect way to compare, but we've got time to go with the price/perf. ratios.

Or rather, Why go with the Nvidia Titan when the Powercolor 7990 is ~$650-$700 and beats out the titan in nearly every aspect? Then again, though, If I get a Powercolor 7990 those things are heat beasts, so i'd want a more powerful cooling unit.

I don't know what cards to compare against what cards tbh. That's making it kind of HARD. Like, what's the equiv. of an ATI 7950?

[Warsaw]

Why get the Titan? Because a single-GPU card will have less issues than a dual-GPU card. And then you can get another one later and be just as well off. Also 7990s are loud. Very loud. I have two 7970s, and those are very loud, too.

Also, for comparisons:

HD 7970 to GTX 680/ GTX 770

HD 7950 to GTX 670/ GTX 760

I'm less sure about the GTX 7-series, but I'm positive about the GTX 6-series.

Also, frame-rate should not be your only measuring criteria. Equally important is the frame-time. A high frame time will result in a jittery image, even if the frame rates are high. AnandTech has recently started looking into this, but TechReports has been doing it for a good long while. Head over there and do some reading.

As for benches, you need to look at the games you play and form your own averages. There is no "one game to fuck them all." Metro 2033 would be it, except it favours AMD cards. If you don't play that game, it's not that useful to you. BF3 favours Nvidia. Skyrim favours Nvidia. Source favours Nvidia but is so easy to run that it doesn't mean shit.

[RedBaron]

This really isn't a question about a new build, but I'm posting this question here because I don't want to start a new thread.

So I have a setup right now where I've got my laptop hooked up to a 1080p TV via HDMI. I am only running the single display on the TV and have the laptop display disabled whenever I have the TV hooked up. I have windows desktop resolution set to 1920x1080. However, when I run games, I have them set at 1600x900 through the ingame menus. I do this hoping that it'll be less of a strain on my laptop's GPU as opposed to running them at 1920x1080. In order for the TV to have no black borders when running at 1600x900, I had to enable GPU scaling in CCC and mess around with the over-scaling slider. Effectively, my GPU is still outputting a signal at 1920x1080 but is scaling a 1600x900 image up to the higher resolution. I imagine it is like taking a low resolution picture image and setting it as your desktop background, and having it stretched to fit your screen. The result is a more pixelated and lower quality image.

So my question is this: would I be better off just running the games in 1920x1080? The GPU still has to use its own resources to upscale the 1600x900 image anyway, so maybe the reduction in load is smaller than I think. Perhaps I am not gaining any reduction in load at all??? If I run them at 1920x1080, the image quality would certainly be better, but I don't want my laptop to melt.

[Dwood]

Well, the only way is to test, tbh. If you can, what I suggest is to get your GPU temp at the lower resolution stretched, and then to get the non-stretched temperature. If the stretched temp is, on average, higher- THEN try the higher res to see if it compares to the stretched image.

Most GPU's should have some firmware or software suite that tests such things.

[Dwood]

I ordered a UtechSmart 8200 dpi mouse b/c the one from GE I bought was NOT working out. Here's quick review: I open the box, it's super convenient, nice packaging. The mouse is usb and comes with 6 led weights. It has blue led lights, one for power, another to show the setting it's on for dpi. The mouse, without the weights, is EXTREMELY light, like feather-light. Below the scroll wheel it has a +/- button for changing the dpi manually. It has 4 side buttons, 3 on the thumb side, one on the right side.

Its curvature is very form-fitting to the hand, and comfortable. It probably has the nicest usb cord I've seen in a mouse, it's some kind of braided cloth covering the usb cord, and has a good length in my opinion. It may not be long enough if your desk is significantly higher than your computer, but for the most part the length fits my purposes.

So far, i'd give it a 5 out of 7 stars- mouse feels like it's made out of plastic and easily breakable. (I haven't tested it on any games up to this point, but I desperately needed a mouse that was much more effective, especially in normal usage) It retails for about $30.

[Zeph]

http://www.kitguru.net/components/memory/faith/hynix-fabs-on-fire-after-chemical-explosion/

[Dwood]

CRAP. Ordering DDR 3 right now, maybe a new gfx card... Couldn't have come at a worse time. Might wait and deal with the price increase? IDK how long it will actually take though, for the prices to impact the market?

[=sw=warlord]

the prices are already rising, when the hard drive thing happened prices doubled.

[Patrickssj6]

they tried to oc the Titan for the OC edition and that is what happened

[Dwood]

Add me on Steam, dwood15 I've gotta get a card before the prices sky rocket for gpu's too.

[Zeph]

Looks like the fire didn't damage the fab itself in the clean room, but was something in air purification system. Prices will spike quickly from the drop in continuous supply, but they should lower after production resumes relatively shortly.

[Dwood]

Whelp, at least now I have 16 GB of ram and a new GPU with GDDR5 on the way... LOL. Went with a Sapphire Radeon 7970. B/c of going with Ati, most likely getting an intel board now...

Also, for PSU's, would you recommend the be quiet! brand of PSU's? I want the PSU to be pretty darn quiet, and the company has some good reviews, especially for what they're going for.

Here's a list on ncix us (http://us.ncix.com/products/?minorcatid=1066&manufactureid=4703)

It might take some saving, but I'm looking at a 750 W PSU (I think 1,000 is overkill, but 750 would be good for OC'ing, as well as the 7970. If the cooler is too loud in the 7970, and i've put some time into saving money, I'll probably go with water cooling.

I'm thinking an Intel Core i5 for a CPU, I don't reckon an Octo-core is going to make much of a difference, so a quad is probably what i'm getting. Suggestions on a good Intel/AMD cpu? I know it won't be super cold if I get AMD, but their AM socket architecture is very robust, and seems to last between multiple generations of CPU's whereas intel needs a new mobo with almost every generation.

Thoughts?

[Dwood]

Double posting, but what do you guys think of this (http://www.amazon.com/Nexus-RX-8500-80-Plus-Inaudible-Supply/dp/B0025YYJJM) brand of power supply? I was trying to find a quiet PSU with a reasonable price, and this is the best I could find. 850-Watt PSU seems reasonable for the computer i'd like to build (an upgrade from the current 460 which would get crushed by the 7970 that just got in)

[Cortexian]

Get one of the newer Corsair power supplies, the fan doesn't even turn on unless the system is under enough load and the PSU gets hot enough.

[Amit]

Shit that sounds awesome. Probably expensive as usual, though. Then again, quality is worth it.

[Dwood]

150 (http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Professional-Series-Modular-HX850/dp/B0090I9W66/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1378882131&sr=8-14&keywords=corsair+power+supply)

Not too bad, especially for the 80 plus gold cert. I think I might just go with that psu tbh. 850w had ought to be plenty for a 7970 some hdds and a disc drive tbh. Any reason why a 1000w would be better?

[Btcc22]

Nope. 850 is already way more than enough.

[Cortexian]

Well, the higher the rated wattage the easier it is for the PSU to power your componenets. That could mean less noise from fans kicking in, and/or longer lifetime for the PSU since it's not working as hard.

That's why I always go for lolhueg PSU's.

[Warsaw]

I use a 1080W HEC PSU that cost me around $80. I have always skimped on PSUs. Want to know how many times I've had to actually replace one? Twice. After many, many years of service each, and I suspect that thoroughly vacuuming one of them would have fixed it right up.

[Dwood]

I got a Corsair 850W Semi-Modular for about $100 (gold rated, mind) the ASRock 990 FX, and the ATi 7970, as well as the AMD FX 8-core ("Vishera") Even though I'm more partial towards less cores, faster clock (If it weren't for a deal i made with a friend, i'd be using a 6-core just because I'd rather have the higher clock benefit each core more).

Currently not going to install Windows onto the machine. An Ubuntu 13.04 iso is currently downloading. While i'm not a fan of the new ui, it is what it is. A 120 GB TLC SSD is on its way. I've got a 250 GB HDD for the mass storage (I honestly don't use that much data. Maybe steam will fill it all up? lol)

I know this is completely ridiculous, but I am honestly eyeing either the Asus pq321 (http://www.asus.com/News/L9xTPmmMwTlPMq5l) or a Cintiq (http://www.wacom.com/us/en/creative/cintiq-22-hd) I know, you might say they're overkill, but I refuse to be stuck with these crappy lcd monitors. It will take some saving, but I will get one.. ONE DAY. EDIT: the 13" cintiq isn't a bad idea, either, actually.

I'm totally Scrimping on the case, though. Just re-using an old one my parents have lying around.

EDIT: UBUNTU is a pain in my rear, and doesn't have support for my gaming mouse. Sorry guys, but picking up a non-sucky os. I'll still dual boot Ubuntu, but I don't have any desire to run into the support issue over and over again. Bye bye yet another $200. (win 7 pro - 16 gig ram limit? You gotta be kidding me) I'm picking up a quieter fan for 30 bucks on top of it as well.

[PlasbianX]

Anyone know of any reasonably priced monitors? Looking into getting two new ones because im using a TV as my primary and it sucks :/

[Btcc22]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QNIX-QX2710-LED-Evolution-ll-Matte-27-2560x1440-SAMSUNG-PLS-27in-PC-Monitor-/111078161308?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item19dcc63b9c

Korean 27" 2560x1440 monitors. Research 'em.

[Warsaw]

Uh, Dwood, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit has a 192 GB limit (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx)...yeah...

Anything else is a hardware limitation...or Home Premium. Don't get Home Premium.

[Dwood]

I meant home prem. getting pro.

[ThePlague]

Lol pro. ULTIMATE ALL TEH WAI

[Warsaw]

I got Pro for free. Not complaining.

[Dwood]

Had win7 free legally once but lost the cd key. :/ Win7 is worth it. Not paying for win8, nor am I even going to pirate it. Not worth either.

Also, don't diss- I'm not going to be staying stuck with 16 GB's of RAM. As soon as there are larger single sticks than 8GB, that's what i'm going for. I'd spend $200 for two 16 GB sticks. Heck, id spend 100 for one 16 gb stick.

[Warsaw]

Or you could save yourself the trouble and buy into a platform with 8 DIMM slots...not that you'll ever need it.

[Dwood]

Or you could save yourself the trouble and buy into a platform with 8 DIMM slots...not that you'll ever need it.

Nope. Probably won't need it but- Yes, I could, but from what I understand you get more efficient performance out of 2 ram cards rather than 8, as it has to deal with load/power distribution.

2nd: I'm waiting for the day when we can run 2 os's simultaneously on one mobo without an emulator. These 8 cores can be hard to fill sometimes!

[Cortexian]

If you invest in Socket 2011 and want a 3930k I can probably sell you one for like $400. I want to upgrade to a 4930k.

[Dwood]

AMAZON SUPER SAVINGS:


List Price: $3,499.00
Price: $3,498.95 & FREE Shipping. Details
You Save: $0.05

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-PQ321Q-31-5-Inch-4K-Monitor/dp/B00DJ4BIKA

Doesn't change the WANT factor, however.

[Cortexian]

You want a monitor that is actually just two monitors stiched together and requires you do use two HDMI 1.4 or one DisplayPort connection (which is then passed through a demultiplexer that splits the data in to two streams)? Also something that basically only works on Nvidia cards with the latest drivers because otherwise the display appears to have sync issues between the two halves?

LOL.

I'll wait for a real 4k monitor/TV.

[Amit]

^

Also, can monitors of the future have ultra-thin bezels plz? kthxbai

[Dwood]

^

Also, can monitors of the future have ultra-thin bezels plz? kthxbai

That's my dream...

[Amit]

This is probably going to be what I'll be using as my dedicated living room Steam Box:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=YlW6hw0WUpw

I've already built a gaming PC with the Elite 120, so this one should be even more awesome since it's basically a replacement for the Elite 120.

[Cortexian]

I still like the Silverstone Fortress FT03-Mini myself. Has a sleeker shape for something I would want to put in my living room. If not that, a proper HTPC chassis would do since I could install SLI GPU's and pretty much whatever other hardware I wanted without worrying about space constrictions.

[PlasbianX]

Does anyone know if you can use 1 graphics card with dual monitors, and your intergrated graphics with a third monitor simultaneously?

[Cortexian]

Most motherboards don't support simultaneous use of the integrated and discrete graphics cards like that. Plugging in a discrete GPU disables the integrated chip.

Most of the newer moderate to high end GPU's now support three of four outputs simultaneously though.

[InnerGoat]

That depends on the motherboard really. If you have something recent, the integrated gpu should be an option in bios that you can set to enabled rather than auto. I used to do this for a third monitor when i was using a GTX 570.

Also AMD R9 290x in a few hours? I hope you sold your titans while they are still worth something Freelancer~

[Cortexian]

Titan's should be on par or better still.

[Btcc22]

I think he was referring to this:

I'll be able to sell both my Titans in a couple of years for $800
$800 combined or each?

[InnerGoat]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review

good job AMD you made a nice thing. Try doing this with CPUs please!

[Cortexian]

Like I said, right on par with the Titan and months late to the table.

Although I could sell my two Titan's and buy three R9's... But I couldn't bear to go back to AMD. I use a FirePro at work and the drivers (Catalyst Control Center at least) are still terrible.

[Btcc22]

Like I said, right on par with the Titan and months late to the table.

But also half the price (or close enough). That's more important than putting out something that next to nobody's going to buy.

[Warsaw]

Titan is actually as old as the 680, Nvidia just used them all in Tesla compute GPUs until they felt it necessary to out it as a consumer GPU. They basically handed the last generation to AMD because they had a trump-card in their back pocket that would force AMD into the catch-up role. The R9 290X is definitely late, well-played Nvidia. It would be silly even for me to upgrade my two 7970s to an R9 290X, let alone for Freelancer to swap out two perfectly good Titans for two 290X in Crossfire. The gain just isn't there. The 7970 in CF (or R9 280X, if you really want to call it that) is only 12 FPS shy of two R9 290X in CF in Battlefield 3 at 3840x2160. Worth $1100? Nope. Never. At lower resolutions, the computing horsepower is irrelevant.

[Dwood]

basically what warsaw said. my current monitor can only do 1600x900 at max res so the new generation is kind of dumb for me to buy into until I c a n get a 4k monitor at reasonable prices. if I had waited a month before getting my 7970 I may have waited for the 290x but meh. hopefully amds mantel api turns out to be on par wirg cuda. if nvidia stays in the lead and drops prices my next card is definitely an nvidia. that is unless ati keeps murdering nvidia in price/perf. even the titan at 700 is ridiculous imo.

[Btcc22]

hopefully amds mantel api turns out to be on par wirg cuda.

Mantle isn't supposed to be competing with CUDA, it's competing with OpenGL and Direct3D. OpenCL is AMD's answer to both CUDA and PhysX.

[Amit]

basically what warsaw said. my current monitor can only do 1600x900 at max res so the new generation is kind of dumb for me to buy into until I c a n get a 4k monitor at reasonable prices. if I had waited a month before getting my 7970 I may have waited for the 290x but meh. hopefully amds mantel api turns out to be on par wirg cuda. if nvidia stays in the lead and drops prices my next card is definitely an nvidia. that is unless ati keeps murdering nvidia in price/perf. even the titan at 700 is ridiculous imo.

The new/current gen will struggle with 4K, so you'll be waiting a while for something that will beast 4K. I'd say at least 3 years for something reasonable in price and performance.

[Btcc22]

...and if games stop being hopeless console ports, you could be waiting longer.

It's also worth keeping in mind that current PC games are ports designed for hardware from 2006 but that's not going to be the case for much longer. It could end up pushing affordable 4K gaming further away than expected.

[Dwood]

Mantle isn't supposed to be competing with CUDA, it's competing with OpenGL and Direct3D. OpenCL is AMD's answer to both CUDA and PhysX.

I stand corrected.



The idea of exclusively using the PCI-Express bus for inter-GPU communication on a high-end video card was worrying at first given the inherent latency that comes PCIe, but to the credit of AMD’s engineers they have shown that it can work and that it works well...


Interesting... A card that will be able to utilize PCi-e 3.0... AMD has gotten me interested


The new/current gen will struggle with 4K, so you'll be waiting a while for something that will beast 4K. I'd say at least 3 years for something reasonable in price and performance.

Yeah, I don't expect it any time soon, but 3 years is a bit much, imo. When a reasonably priced 4k-monitor comes out I'll pick one up, it shouldn't be too long (im' thinking a max of a year or so before we see one in the sub-$800 range. which means the 2560x1440 or whatnot will eventually be at the $300-250 range. What I look forward to more than that, is a monitor that's ~22" at 2560x1440, which is about the same ratio as the Retina displays on iPads. No point in buying a beast of a monitor if it's got worse pixel density, no matter how large it is.


...and if games stop being hopeless console ports, you could be waiting longer.

It's also worth keeping in mind that current PC games are ports designed for hardware from 2006 but that's not going to be the case for much longer. It could end up pushing affordable 4K gaming further away than expected.

It depends- 4k monitors have commercial viability outside of gaming as well, especially in the larger enthusiast HD-TV market.

[Warsaw]

The new/current gen will struggle with 4K, so you'll be waiting a while for something that will beast 4K. I'd say at least 3 years for something reasonable in price and performance.

That's not what the test data suggested. If you've only got one, sure, maybe. If you've got two, you're fine.


...and if games stop being hopeless console ports, you could be waiting longer.

It's also worth keeping in mind that current PC games are ports designed for hardware from 2006 but that's not going to be the case for much longer. It could end up pushing affordable 4K gaming further away than expected.

This is not quite an accurate conclusion to draw. Consoles in 2005/2006 were dead-even with all but the most bleeding-edge PCs as far as performance went. These new consoles are barely middle of the road when compared with PCs, and anything with an FX-8000 series or Core i5 CPU is already beating the crap out of it with regards to basic computing horsepower, since they are equipped with 8-core AMD equivalents to the Intel Atom processor. The GPU inside each is not even as good as an HD 7870, which is a third-tier GPU, and this is before touching on the reduced clock speeds.

What does this mean? This means that all of those optimization techniques that have made PC games run like a dream today (thank you consoles) will still be applied and will result in PCs using the best we had in January remaining competitive in the future. These consoles can't do 2160p. They will barely be doing 1080p when they finally start looking next-gen. Me? I'm going to be sitting here comfortable with my 1440p monitor, still playing games at their highest settings in 4 years. This is why you never buy mid-tier: it's a shit investment and harder on the wallet than just going all-in to begin with.

[=sw=warlord]

...and if games stop being hopeless console ports, you could be waiting longer.

It's also worth keeping in mind that current PC games are ports designed for hardware from 2006 but that's not going to be the case for much longer. It could end up pushing affordable 4K gaming further away than expected.
Except if AMD holds to its promise with Mantle we may see games being handled at higher resolutions than before.
BF4 will be supporting Mantle and the 7xxx range AMD cards have support by default.
If AMD is true to its words about 9X the drawcall performance over DX11 then one could guess that games using Mantle may be more easily handled at higher resolutions even if their fidelity is par with DX11.

[Zeph]

If AMD is true to its words about 9X the drawcall performance over DX11 then one could guess that games using Mantle may be more easily handled at higher resolutions even if their fidelity is par with DX11.

AMD isn't in a position to really provide that figure. Drawing passes vary per engine, so the most they could do would provide a time in milliseconds to perform specific tasks.
The 9xDP figure came from DICE, so that's probably just scratching the surface against what it can do.
I shudder to think what some true optimization in rendering could do with Mantle (cue Crytek).

[Btcc22]

This is not quite an accurate conclusion to draw

I figured somebody would point that out but I still believe it's a valid point. Like with any console generation, it'll likely be a while before developers start to get the most from the hardware.

[Warsaw]

But the potential isn't there, and that is really what counts. They can squeeze it, but the improvement to PC optimization is at about 90% (eyeballed) of whatever the optimization they get out of consoles, so it's basically lock-step. Anybody with an HD 7870 or better and an i5-class CPU will be just as well off playing games at the same quality settings as the new consoles, probably better.

[Btcc22]

All I was trying to say is that the new generation of consoles will most likely push 4K gaming further into the future than many expect, especially given that many haven't even considered the point. Whether it's only by a year or several years, the point stands.

It's still a good step-up in hardware over the last generation and running games that have been optimised specifically for the console hardware, even if you believe most optimisations have already been taken advantage of, at several times the resolution is still going to take a beefy rig.

You could also argue that with the change in architecture, we could see more games being able to 'scale' in order to take advantage of the extra power in PCs (or inversely, downscaling, to make them run on consoles), making it all the harder to run them at higher resolutions with everything cranked up.

On another point, at what stage do we decide that there's no need to go to aim for a higher resolution with PC monitors and gaming? At what point is it better for the extra power to be put towards making visuals better rather than simply running it at a higher resolution?

Anyway, wake me up when we can have 120hz 4K monitors.

[Warsaw]

Honestly, pure resolution is meaningless to me. 4K is a gimmick, and not a particularly useful one because it's just another 16:9 ratio. I'll be impressed when we get TVs and desktop monitors with pixel densities in excess of 300ppi and, as a bonus, are in some ration greater than 21:9 with a curvature. At that point, I think we'll be able to focus less on pushing more pixels and more on improving the details in the content being rendered.

[Cortexian]

Now I'm curious to see how G-SYNC impacts this 290X = Titan at half the price debacle.

Gonna be funny to see a 780/Titan running a game at 60 FPS look smoother than Crossfire 290X's running it at 100+...

[=sw=warlord]

I still find it funny that it took until now for someone to even patent the idea of clocking monitors to fit the frame rate.

[Dwood]

ALL RIGHT, well, i've done most of my computer, fooled around with 6+ HDD's of 250GB trying to get them all in RAID, reinstalled Windows, had tons of dumb errors, and i am now on the final stretch for victory of my PC!

Total Specs up to this point: (prices are approximate, as I haven't remembered them all. If you ask, I can look them up fairly easily)
AMD 8150 FX 8-core 3.6 Ghz (<free> THANKS RAMBO, you're AWESOME!) (Windows Experience index: 7.6)
ASROCk 990FX Extreme9 (if i'd done some more searching, pci-e 3.0 would have been nice, but w/e. this'll last me until I can pay off the car)
16 GB of RAM (7.6 on the index) ($300)
ATi Radeon 7970 3GB GDDR5 (7.9) ($300)
Case: Rosewill Thor ($230)
Corsair 850W Gold Semi-modular PSU ($250)
Samsung Evo 126 GB SSD (~$100)
8200 Dpi mouse (no linux support :ugh:) ($30)
Salvaged Laptop Screen controller from ebay ($50) this screen has max res of 1600x 900, which actually my laptop hardware couldn't go to, it only went to like 1440xSomething, so that was a neat surprise.
Laptop screen stand from cardboard cutout box: $0
Sennheiser HD595 headphones ~$120 (Skyrim and Doom BFG... super expensive, it was like 90 bucks all together. :ugh:)

This hobby's kind of out of hand... I need to stop buying things. Yeah, God would probably want me to stop. Why did i even mention God? idk.

32623263

The next step, in all honesty, is a 2560x1440 display, which I am NOT purchasing unless I can get it for sub-$200. I'll get, believe me.

[Warsaw]

1440 x 900, that's the old 16:10 widescreen resolution that came standard on 15" laptops.

You should buy another 7970 to complement that first one. :)

[InnerGoat]

I'm liking the monitor stand :)

Also yeah get a second 7970 and turn that room into a oven~

[Dwood]

I'm liking the monitor stand :)

Me, too. /Cheap



Also yeah get a second 7970 and turn that room into a oven~

We can bake cookies!

And a correction! The Rosewill Thor was $230 not $300.

[Higuy]

Finally got around today to organizing my room so my computer setup is across from my TV, where my 5.1 surround sound is set up. Now I can finally hook my computer to it and use the speakers for sound :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img20/1421/8u4q.jpg

What I get to look up at everday :D

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/724/2pd1.jpg

Also, for those who don't know, heres my computer specs:

Monitors:
Two Samsung SyncMaster 2233's 22" for the sides
Samsung 24" LED for the middle. (couldn't find the old ones on the side, didnt want to buy two more of this monitor :( )

Computer Specs:
CPU: Intel i7 3.1ghz
Motherboard: ASUS Maximus Gene V
RAM: 8gb Vengence RAM
GPU: Asus ATI Radeon HD 7850 2gb
HDD: 1TB Western Digital and a 500gb Western Digital
PSU: 750w TX Corsair

I'm thinking about getting another 7850 maybe so I can run crossfire... Not totally sure about it, but I think it would be pretty cool. Case is kinda small though, and thats another thing I'd like to upgrade, since I've had the case for almost 6 years and its getting kinda beat up.

You can also see in the corner of the first picture my home server. I use this for game development and other stuff, got a sweet repository and Windows Server 2008 on it. Runs like a champ :) ! I didn't build it, its an HP, and its pretty sweet. 4 storage bays and its really small, pretty fast as well. The "HP ProLiant MircoServer". Got a 1TB and another 250gb in it. I'd like to eventually upgrade from it, but for now, this works pretty good.

[Dwood]

too bad no monitors below 27" have higher res than 1920.

also@ innergoat. I have a history of awesome computer stands:

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs25/i/2008/034/5/d/_____by_Dwood15.jpg

[Warsaw]

There was a time when you could get 24" monitors in 2048x1156 or some funky-ass resolution like that. Samsung made them, and they were awesome.

[Zeph]

There was also once a time where you had monitors at 5:4.
16:10 is sadly the last bastion of PC-unique resolutions and the final hope for something other than a television-based experience.
Woe is life until 8k. Apparently we're all supposed to just stop caring then because pixel density is so crazy good.

[Tnnaas]

There was a time when you could get 24" monitors in 2048x1156 or some funky-ass resolution like that. Samsung made them, and they were awesome.
Except those are discontinued for some reason and that sucks.

plz bring back high pixel density small form factor monitors :ehhh:

[Dwood]

Except those are discontinued for some reason and that sucks.

plz bring back high pixel density small form factor monitors :ehhh:

Mac gets it point #1 (http://www.apple.com/mac/)

2560-by-1600 IN A THIRTEEN-INCH LAPTOP.
2880x1800 display in a 15" LAPTOP.

See ebay: HERE (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=2880x1800+screen&_sop=1)

I'm tempted to grab one of those 2880x1800 for 150, and purchase a compatible controller board for $100. There's a guy who made his own... (http://mikesmods.com/mm-wp/?p=212) If we can find a 2880x1800 for ~$80 or less, it's an instant-buy, to be honest. Though, you can grab a 9" retina display for around the same price.

point #2 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/iPad-with-retina-display-Compatible-LCD-Display-Screen-Replacement-New-/271269703906?pt=Other_Tablet_eReader_Accessories&hash=item3f28ef30e2)

Edit:

I firmly believe the problem with monitors, is that the prices do not scale appropriately. As higher resolution and hertz etc comes out, the lower-end models should drop in price, by orders of magnitudes. The problem is that people still buy the lower end models, bringing up the price of said models, so there's a marginal if any, difference between the two. Thus, screen-makers are not as inclined to offer a good deal for their lcd screens except in the case of TV's which, by comparison, still suck.

[Warsaw]

There was also once a time where you had monitors at 5:4.
16:10 is sadly the last bastion of PC-unique resolutions and the final hope for something other than a television-based experience.
Woe is life until 8k. Apparently we're all supposed to just stop caring then because pixel density is so crazy good.

My previous monitor was 5:4. If getting the Dell U3011 wasn't another $200 over the U2711, I would have gotten it. Alas, $200 for another 160 vertical lines was just not worth it. So, 16:9 for me it was. On the upside, it means I don't have letterboxing or distortion when using my Xbox 360 with it. :)

[Tnnaas]

Since the last few posts were about the wonderful world of 4k monitors, I figured I might post this here. Copy-pasta quoting because plagiarism is bad.


Details are limited, but the a 24inch 4K monitor makes a surface on Dell website.
The Dell UltraSharp UP2414Q is a Ultra HD 3840 x 2160 resolution monitor, IPS panel, with 178 degree view angle in all directions.

http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/monitors_highlights/dell-up2414q-overview1.jpg

This massive high pixel density monitor, comes with 100% sRGB coverage, and 99% AdobeRGB coverage. That's right, it s a wide gamut monitor.
It also comes with 2 manufacture color calibrated profiles: AdobeRGB and sRGB profiles, with report, with a claimed Delta-E<2. It can display up to 1.07 billion colors if you have the hardware and content to enjoy such amount of colors, and includes a user-accessible (so programmable) Look-up table (LUT), accessible and configurable via the optional X-Rite i1Display Pro colormeter.

The monitor is fully adjustable, and comes with as input: HDMI, DisplayPort, and mini-DisplayPort. It has a 6-1 media card reader and 4 USB 3.0 ports on the back.

http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/monitors_highlights/dell-up2414q-overview2.jpg

Like all Dell monitors, is features a 3 year warranty with Dell's Advance Exchange Server, and Premium Panel Guaranty, however details are unknown for this resolution screen. But If it's like the large 32inch version of the same reslution, it's 0 bright pixel guaranty, meaning if you see 1 stuck or bright pixel -> replacement. And 6 or more dead pixel, yes, even for this huge ass resolution -> replacement. No zone or distance policy. Dell pays shipping and arranges for everything, both directions. You get to keep the monitor while you await for the replacement.

http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/monitors/monitors_highlights/dell-up2414q-overview3.jpg

Source: http://www1.la.dell....-up2414q&s=corp (http://www1.la.dell.com/bz/en/corp/peripherals/dell-up2414q/pd.aspx?refid=dell-up2414q&s=corp)

No details on price or availability yet.
Hoping we will see this be not several thousand dollars, but who knows. vOv

[Dwood]

I am now going to cease any purchasing and save up for the day that monitor comes out.

[Rosco]

Hi guys

in a vague attempt to not post something caked in sarcasm in an otherwise terribly depressing world.. building a machine which requires a bit of mobility (possible future LAN parties but also for my desk space) but should be capable of HD gaming with a bit of future proofing.. (no fucks given about 4k monitors currently)

any thoughts or is the below okay?

Power Supply: Corsair CX750 750W
Processor: Intel Core i7 4770K 3.5Ghz
Processor Cooler: Corsair H80i Water Cooling System
RAM: 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600Mhz/PC12800
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z87N-WIFI Mini ITX
Graphics card: Nvidia GeForce GTX 780Ti 3GB
Hard Drive: Corsair 120GB Force LS Solid State Drive
2nd Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 1TB Hard Drive 7200rpm 32MB Cache

will be housed in this.. [/no mac pro inspiration]

3273
I do feel like i'm limited by wanting it to be in a smaller form factor but it should be a fun build. I also am actually for once stumped on the os to install on it too. I would like to drop win7 ultimate on it but I know the whole optimised for 8.1 thing is pretty common too..

[Warsaw]

You won't suffer from having Windows 7 Ultimate on it for several years, and whatever comes after 8 has to be good because of the Microsoft Cycle (TM), right?

Otherwise, awesome build. Don't like the SSD, would prefer Intel, Samsung, SanDisk, or Crucial, but otherwise no gripes.

[Zeph]

Go win7. Win8 isn't actually windows, but Microsoft's side-OS Tiles rebranded because new things scare people.

How have SSDs been over the past couple of years? Last I paid attention to them Cherryville just came out and was curb stomping everything else. That still the case?

[Rosco]

You won't suffer from having Windows 7 Ultimate on it for several years, and whatever comes after 8 has to be good because of the Microsoft Cycle (TM), right?

Otherwise, awesome build. Don't like the SSD, would prefer Intel, Samsung, SanDisk, or Crucial, but otherwise no gripes.

Oh don't worry I'll be investing in a 1TB SSD from either intel or samsung, just not really ready to spend more than an xbox one cost on storage space yet when really all the ssd needs to do is load the os among other bits and pieces :)..

fake edit: plus i can't get away with being THAT selfish this close to christmas haha

real edit: thanks for the advice, i have pro/ultimate licenses for them, just personally not sold on either anymore.. perhaps steam os!!

[Dwood]

Oh don't worry I'll be investing in a 1TB SSD from either intel or samsung

:) <- link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147251) on a side note, that's cheaper than i was expecting, and the price per gig actually goes down compared to the past when price per gig would go up with each higher capacity.

[Warsaw]

Oh don't worry I'll be investing in a 1TB SSD from either intel or samsung, just not really ready to spend more than an xbox one cost on storage space yet when really all the ssd needs to do is load the os among other bits and pieces :)..

fake edit: plus i can't get away with being THAT selfish this close to christmas haha

real edit: thanks for the advice, i have pro/ultimate licenses for them, just personally not sold on either anymore.. perhaps steam os!!

Yeah, the only reason I was suggesting the other brands is reliability. Hell, I got a 128 GB Crucial M4 and it still died on me. :(