Building a computer? Need advice/suggestions? Come here!

[ThePlague]

Alright cool, thanks.

[Zeph]

Looking at picking up a solid state for christmas. I'll be relying on my hdds for data storage so I guess I'm mainly looking at speed/reliability. Planning on dropping Windows, Autodesk/Adobe suites, other productivity software, starcraft 2, and maybe another game onto it. I have a couple in mind, but I still don't know too much about them.

PCIe vs SATA3? Is it just me or is there not much of a difference until you use multiple lanes?
IOPS? Just take this as a 'it blows away hdds' statement or more of a multitasking kind of thing?
What are the failure and degradation rates nowadays?

[Cortexian]

Degradation has been significantly slowed by TRIM and other proprietary garbage collection methods put in place by each manufacturer. As for failure rates, the SSD market is still fairly new so I would expect that failure rates are still higher than your top-end 7,200rpm HDD.

For a regular desktop drive the SATA III drives seem to be fine, I've found that the PCI-E drives are usually only worth going for if you need some silly amount of SSD storage (1TB+). From what I've read the PCI-E SSD's can't get TRIM commands from the Intel drivers, so degradation is likely higher since the drive relies completely on its own garbage collection methods.

I'm also hoping to pickup an SSD for Christmas, and I'm looking at getting either one of the newer Intel drives or a Crucial M4. These two companies seem to have the best track record with SSD's so far. I'm leaning towards the Crucial because I'm hoping to get a 256~GB SSD since my boot drive usually sits around that with all my games and such installed.

[InnerGoat]

Just don't buy any ssd from OCZ and you'll be fine. Intel's stuff is really nice, as are the crucial M4. Got two computers with Intel's old x25-m 80GBs and one with a new Crucial M4 and they're doing great. The x-25Ms are nearing two years of use and have no degradation. :)

[Zeph]

Well, from what I've read OCZ has really stepped up their game and doesn't suck anymore. Perhaps that was just with their top tier stuff? I know they finally worked out their own controller, but surely the Sandforce controllers they've used aren't utter fail. I'm drawn to the reliability of the Intel ssds, but they're significantly slower.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227759

One of the drives I was considering because of price:performance:storage was OCZ. :\

[Cortexian]

When I was at Memory Express last and inquiring about SSD's the guy said OCZ SSD's have a return rate of about 1/2. He said he wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole and a couple other employees who happened to be standing near at the time agreed.

[Zeph]

Been perusing the reviews for their older SSDs. I think these things just don't like laptops. I've yet to run into a desktop user with a problem.

[ThePlague]

I'm also looking for some DVI cables, so I can 3 screen game. I need 3 cables, good price but not crap, doesn't need to be that long. I found these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812576048), not sure how good they are because there aren't many reviews on them.

[Zeph]

They're short.

[ThePlague]

Well the way my desk is, my desktop is right next to the monitors. So length isn't really an issue.

[Patrickssj6]

You can wash almost all of them if you open the thing up. I did that with an old Logitech and it took 6 years of blood and sweat off it :D
uyGR94i-TGA

I got myself a new one anyway :P

[Cortexian]

Yeah, that's why all you do is wash the keys and use a damp cloth on the rest of the "shell".

Nice experiment though?

[Bodzilla]

i literally took a shower with my old keyboard and soaked it while pulling the entire thing apart.

[Patrickssj6]

i literally took a shower with my old keyboard and soaked it while pulling the entire thing apart.
is that your new fetish next to
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/bodzilla_1/signature.jpghttp://www.modacity.net/forums/images/customavatars/avatar466_37.gif

:P

[Amit]

Good prices on Ivy Bridge: http://www.techpowerup.com/157070/Intel-Ivy-Bridge-Core-Desktop-Processor-Prices-Compiled.html

[Cortexian]

Wow, I expected a lot more $$$ for Ivy Bridge. I will probably upgrade my chip to one of the Ivy chips instead of upgrading to socket 2011. So long as my socket 1155 will support them, but it should.

[Bodzilla]

is that your new fetish next to
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/bodzilla_1/signature.jpghttp://www.modacity.net/forums/images/customavatars/avatar466_37.gif

:P
stoning a bird twice so to speak.

[Zeph]

Wow, I expected a lot more $$$ for Ivy Bridge. I will probably upgrade my chip to one of the Ivy chips instead of upgrading to socket 2011. So long as my socket 1155 will support them, but it should.

Socket 2011 wasn't exactly a new generation. Yeah, it's a stronger chip, but only slightly. Unless you're wanting to bump up to i7, you might as well wait for the Ivy Bridge successor before dumping more money into a machine.

[Cortexian]

Yeah but the equivalent chips to the existing Sandy Bridge chips will OC better since they're 22nm and produce less heat.

Talking about the 3570K vs 2500K. Etc.

That said I will probably only upgrade to an i7. Upgrading to another i5 is kinda sidegrading instead of upgrading.

[InnerGoat]

AMD 7970 review at Anandtech. It's a fast card for sure. Cards should be for sale in ~3 weeks

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review

[Warsaw]

Socket 2011 and SNB-E are basically leaving the same taste in my mouth that Bulldozer did compared to Phenom II. Not much performance gain, trade features like QuickSync for a full 16 PCIe lanes while in multi-card configuration and the neat but questionable quad-channel memory. Nice to have, slight boost when clocked all the way up and under full-core duress, but it is ultimately a waste of money next to the more efficient Sandy Bridge (and Ivy).

Speaking of Bulldozer, though, they get increasingly faster when you OC them. That is to say, it doesn't scale linearly when you do so. A 4.7GHz FX-8150 is better than a 4.5GHz i7-2600K. That doesn't sound impressive (200MHz clock lead), but considering how deficient BD is at stock, it is a feat. Downside? Unholy power draw.

Also, I'm buying two 7970s next month. Slightly OC'd, you get the power of a GTX590 in one card. For $550? Not too terrible.

[ThePlague]

Alright so I will probably end up buying this setup:
Link Depot 6ft. DVI-D Dual Link Cable x2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189047)
ASRock 870 Extreme 3 R2.0 AM3+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157272)
And maybe:
ADATA XPG Gaming Series RAM (2x2gb sticks) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211409)
Roeswill RNX-N150PCe (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166047)
Total of all 4: $139.55
The two cables are so I can 3 screen game. The mobo is so I can finally Crossfire with my other 6870 I have lying around. I said maybe about the last two things is because I have 4gb already of RAM, and i'm not sure if that PCIe card is any good.

Thoughts?

[Warsaw]

A-DATA is the new G.Skill. They've really been stepping up their game, and I can see them becoming a top brand for any type of storage (RAM, eHDD, or SSD) in a couple of years.

Good board is good, I've already vouched for it. I see that you've gone with the DVI cable I showed you. Not really much else to say. The wireless adapter is $15; that's throw-away money when you're talking about computer parts and so it's not much of a risk. Rosewill, to me, has been very reliable in the past. Ran with a Rosewill PSU that came with my case for 6 years before it finally gave way, and even then I think fuzz was the culprit.

[TeeKup]

So about 2-3 days ago my ancient desktop decided to kill itself. Today my father went out and bought an Acer Aspire. It certainly looks shiny, but the keyboard and mouse are cheap as all hell.

Intel Celeron G530 2.40 GHZ Processer
2 gigs of DDR 3 RAM
500 gig Hard Drive
...Intel HD Graphics...
WINDOWS 7 IS SO FUCKING WEIRD. I've been using XP for far too fucking long.

How good is this machine? I'd still like to build my own but I know this one will have to do for now.

[Warsaw]

Terrible. That's how good it is. The hard drive is the best part. Even better than the Windows 7, because it's Windows 7 Home Premium (read: home bullocks uselessness).

[InnerGoat]

TeeKup I'm so sorry for your loss :(

my computer from 2005 can beat up your computer :-3

[Amit]

Oh jesus. I consider buying that Acer a loss. A loss of money. You should have told us sooner so we could recommend something to look for during boxing day sales. Too late now I guess. Oh well, you can always build a system that's 8x more powerful than that for around $400.

[PopeAK49]

So I got a new processor, ram modules, and motherboard. It's working great right now and I average Crysis and Crysis 2 on MAX settings at 30-35 fps. With the High resolution pack and DX11 tesselation enabled, the frame rate drops to 25-32 fps.

Asus Sabertooth x58 motherboard.
Nvidia GTX 580 1.5 GB.
12GB DDR3 1600mhz
Intel core I7 960 3.20GHz
Corsair H60 Liquid CPU Cooler
Western Digital 640GB 5400RPM x 2

It feels as if I could get more frames with this set up, but I don't know exactly what it could be that is bogging it down from its potential. I don't think it's the 5400RPM HDDs, but what do you guys think? (I also use Vsync, but doubt that it could be locking at 30fps because I believe Vsync tries to lock at 60fps?)

[TeeKup]

WEELLL. Good thing it wasn't my money. I insisted I was there to help buy it for him but he went ahead and did it anyway.

[PopeAK49]

I do get higher FPS without Vsync, but the only reason I have it on is because of image tearing.

[Cortexian]

I got my Crucial M4 128GB SSD, getting everything reinstalled now.

@KingFisher: It could be the HDD's, I never use 5,200 drives anymore. There are 5,900 drives on the market for only slightly more that offer the same reliability of 5,200's with better performance.

[PopeAK49]

I was thinking of getting a 7200rpm HDD or even a solid state, but time will tell. Without vsync, I get an average of 43 fps which is nice. I would like no tearing, but tearing only seems noticable during cinematics.

Also, tell me how that SSD is working out for you when everything is in place.

[Patrickssj6]

I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with your HDDs. Once loaded into memory, there is barely any IO action.

My guess is that something is bottlenecking.

[StankBacon]

Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.4GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115074)

ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271)

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231425) - x2

EVGA 01G-P3-1460-KR GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130660)

OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W Modular High Performance Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018)

Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697) - for storage

Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441) - for OS and apps


$805 after rebates, that seems expensive :o

its been a long time since i did this... is this any good?/will it work?

still need a cpu cooler, suggestions?

money is an issue so where can i trim the fat? i chose these components mostly because they all have favorable reviews... even tough i could have chosen a cheaper one, but i REALLY don't feel like dealing with any doa/rma bs.


help me plz.

[Cortexian]

If you can:
Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115072)
("k" version CPU's are a must for Sandy Bridge overclocking)

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231455)
(Sandy Bridge likes faster memory for overclocking. 1600 is good, 1866 is better, 2133 is best, etc)

CORSAIR Gaming Series GS700 700W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139024)
(Stay away from OCZ products, they have extremely poor quality control in my experience. When their products work they work decently but their products outright fail a lot. Corsair or Silverstone for PSU's)

Out of those three I'd get the better PSU first, then the better processor, then if you can afford it, better/faster RAM. The 1600mhz stuff works great as well as the 1866mhz. I listed the 1866mhz cause it's what I'm running my 2500k on.

If you're not planning on overclocking you can stick with the 2400 CPU, but I'd recommend the 2500 or waiting for Ivy Bridge processors to drop Q1 2012.

[Warsaw]

Ugh, Ripjaws. I liked G.Skill when they made no-frills heat spreaders. Tired of these over-the-top, obnoxious fins that really don't serve much purpose. Corsair Vengeance Low-Profile or bust.

[Cortexian]

Except the Corsair LP DIMM's aren't as fast.

[Warsaw]

They are just as fast as the large Vengeance sticks, but yeah, they aren't 1866.

Personally, I think more is better than fast in this case. He's not going to be running an i7-2600K or an X79. Granted, you are suggesting an 8GB kit vs. his 4GB selection, I feel that at this point 8GB is a medium between going low (4GB) and getting something to last (16GB). There's no telling how long RAM prices are going to remain this low, so if he's doubling his price point to get four more gigabytes, why not spend $20 after that to get eight more gigabytes on top of those four?

As important as PSUs are, I feel like the one he has chosen is already more than adequate (hell, a Rosewill would have sufficed, even).

So, I would save money on the PSU and buy this kit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231315) over the 1866 kit. Games are now starting to take advantage of 8GB, and then you have games like All Points Bulletin which aren't completely satisfied with even that at 720p. Fast isn't going to help your texture buffer as much as capacity will. I put in a faster 2GB of DDR1 into my rig, didn't make much difference in HL2:E1. I combined it with the slower 2GB and look, now I have buttery smooth frame rates (unstable though because mobo hates having 4 DIMMs, tried with 4DIMM 3GB, still no joy).

1600 is more than adequate (1333 is also good, but go no lower), and 1866 is better if you are already running an enthusiast platform.

I do also recommend saving for the 2500K. That unlocked multiplier is really the only thing that makes it worth spending up on Intel over AMD unless power consumption is that big of a deal to you, because cheaper AMD CPUs can be OC'd to match at the cost of power efficiency.

[Cortexian]

What I meant about the LP kits being slower is that there are no options for faster speeds. They just don't make anything over 1600mhz in LP to my knowledge, and the reason for that is (IIRC) because they can't dispate enough heat.

The larger heat spreaders ARE more efficient, though I have to agree with you that some of the designs are just silly. I'd take the G-SKILL spreaders over the regular Vengenge style ones any day.

I found that a good medium for speed and capacity is 1866mhz since it's a lot more affordable than most 2133mhz+ stuff and you can still get yourself 16GB fairly easily. More if you want to fork over the cash for 8GB DIMM's.

[Donut]

Part list permalink (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/36OS) / Part price breakdown by merchant (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/36OS/by_merchant)

CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 640 3.0GHz Quad-Core Processor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-adx640wfgmbox) ($98.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock 870 Extreme3 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asrock-motherboard-870extreme3r20) ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: A-Data Gaming Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/a-data-memory-ax3u1600gb2g92g) ($25.99 @ Amazon)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ealx) ($111.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 1GB Video Card (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/sapphire-video-card-1003143l) ($152.55 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XClio 650W ATX Power Supply (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/xclio-power-supply-goodpower650w) ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH22NS90B DVD/CD Writer (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/lg-optical-drive-gh22ns90b) ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $571.49
(Prices include shipping and discounts when available.)
(Generated 2011-12-29 01:09 EST-0500)

budget was 600 bucks. this is supposed to be able to play skyrim on high and other games maxed out. building it for a friend. suggestions?

[Warsaw]

What I meant about the LP kits being slower is that there are no options for faster speeds. They just don't make anything over 1600mhz in LP to my knowledge, and the reason for that is (IIRC) because they can't dispate enough heat.

The larger heat spreaders ARE more efficient, though I have to agree with you that some of the designs are just silly. I'd take the G-SKILL spreaders over the regular Vengenge style ones any day.

I found that a good medium for speed and capacity is 1866mhz since it's a lot more affordable than most 2133mhz+ stuff and you can still get yourself 16GB fairly easily. More if you want to fork over the cash for 8GB DIMM's.

I actually think that the companies are buying into their own marketing with regards to LP DIMMs. Anything above 1600MHz is obviously going to be geared mostly towards enthusiasts, and they think that all of us like the flashy, windowed, LED-littered look. Well, we don't. Case manufacturers are starting to find that out. I'd have no problem with the large sinks if they didn't look totally dorky. Hell, just make the slab of aluminum taller, maybe rib it to give more surface area and put straight, vertical slots once you get above the PCB itself. None of this angled, shark-tooth stuff. Please.

Also, yeah, I'd spring for 1866 16GB, but I also wanted to keep price down. Bacon's original choice was $25, your choice made it $60. Well, it's daft to go with 8GB for more than double the price when you can get 16 GB for just $20 more. Like I said, capacity trumps raw speed in general.

Donut: Lol, that ASRock 870 is quite the steal, isn't it? If there are parts he can scrounge (optical drives, hard drives, etc.), I would definitely recommend using the savings to bump up to a Phenom II X4 965. Performance deficit with the Athlon II is rather notable.

[Amit]

I originally bought this OCZ OCZ Agility 3 60GB SATA III SSD (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227725) for $99 with a $30 MiR to bring the price down to $69.99. However, I got wind of the talk that the SandForce controller isn't reliable. So, I took it back (unopened), got a refund, and bought this Kingston SSDNow V200 Series 64GB SATA III SSD (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139949) for $85 instead (no MiR).

The specs of the OCZ drive are up to 525MB/s Sustained Sequential Read and up to 475MB/s Sustained Sequential Write.
The specs of the Kingston are up to 260MB/s Sustained Sequential Read and up to 100MB/s Sustained Sequential Write.

Apparently, the Kingston drive is supposed to last much longer than the OCZ one because there's some issue with the SandForce controller, but I've also read that there is a firmware update for the affected drives to address this issue. On the other hand, that fix supposedly reduces performance significantly (?). I've also heard that some new version of the SandForce controller doesn't have this issue, but I don't know how to tell which version has the problems.

On the Notebook Review forum I found a lot of people (http://forum.notebookreview.com/solid-state-drives-ssds-flash-storage/629427-kingston-ssdnow-v200-having-serious-performance-problems.html) who are getting close to the advertised read speeds for the Kingston V200 drive, but are getting abysmal write speeds for it. I believe one of the admins on the forum inquired to Kingston about the issue and they have acknowledged that they are investigating it (http://forum.notebookreview.com/8182178-post111.html).

I haven't opened the Kingston drive's packaging yet, but I might tomorrow to test it for myself. It sort of pains me to see the drastic difference between read/write speeds on the OCZ Agility 3 and Kingston V200 drives.

I've had my eye on this Crucial M4 64GB SATA III SSD (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441) since I've heard nothing but great things about the M4 series, but I can't find a local vendor that sells them. Online purchases are out of the question here since they are so expansive and I have no doubt that they sell cheaper locally, which was how I got the OCZ and Kingston drives for a lot cheaper.

I don't know what to do. Should I keep this Kingston drive? Or should I take it back and get the OCZ one again? I really have no idea what to do.

[Cortexian]

Reliability:
#1 Intel
#2 Crucial

Performance (from what I can tell right now):
#1 OCZ
#2 Other SandForce drives

The M4 and Intels offerings are the best performace/reliability combination right now.

[Amit]

Okay, I just realized that the place I bought these drives from sells the 64GB Crucial M4 and there are three left at the closest location so they aren't going anywhere soon. The problem is that it's $120 instead of the $104 on Newegg.ca. Even with newegg I'm not willing to pay over $95 for an SSD. Honestly, I couldn't be too bothered with the write speeds, which would make the Crucial M4 perfect for me, but it's just too far out of my price range. I think the Kingtson V200 might be worth the 37% less performance I'll get out of it for read speeds if I'm spending $35 less, even if the write speeds are hampered due to some unknown issue. I'll just keep the drive and see what fix Kingston comes up with in the future. If shit is really bad after I benchmark it, I'll just take the drive back, bite my tongue and get the M4 and end my troubles.

Meh, I've made worse purchases, like my Logitech G110 for $89.95, which dropped to $75.99 at Best Buy the week after I bought mine. I mean, well, anything is better than what I'm currently using (I had no idea this POS was so slow): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822149059

[Warsaw]

There's a cheap SanDisk 120 GB SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171545) on the market right now, selling for USD 125. It's not the fastest drive in the world, but it's getting great reviews, it's spacious (relatively speaking), and it's affordable. It's also not an HDD.

[Amit]

Wow, that's quite affordable for a 120GB drive with decent speeds. I'll definitely look into getting one of those instead. The only downside I see to it is that it's not SATA III. I would go for the 60GB version instead since you would think it'd be cheaper, but nope, it's only $5 cheaper on newegg.com. You'd be retarded not to buy the 120GB version. In any case, it's $134.99 at Newegg.ca, so that's wayyyy to far out of my price range. I might as well just get a large 7200RPM drive at that point.

[Warsaw]

Even at SATA II, it murders the throughput of magnetic HDDs, which is the whole point. I'm going to grab one for my upcoming build; will use it for Windows 7, Battlefield 3, and Steam.

[Amit]

True. Well, I've decided to put in the drive I do have as soon as I'm done slipstreaming SP1 to a new bootable Windows 7 USB ISO.

[Cortexian]

Hey with all this SSD talk and space restrictions due to lower capacities, I've got to ask; Is there any program out there that lets me pick and choose what Steam games get installed onto which drive? I have Steam installed on my SSD right now but I only want a few Steam games on the SSD, the rest can go elsewhere.

Possible?

[Patrickssj6]

It took me 15 seoncs and I found a file config.vdf that saves the location of every game. So it should be possible...



"apps"
{
"410"
{
"HasAllLocalContent" "1"
"UpToDate" "1"
"installdir" "c:\\program files (x86)\\steam\\steamapps\\patrickssj6\\portal"
}
"440"
{
"UpdateKBtoDL" "0"
"installdir" "c:\\program files (x86)\\steam\\steamapps\\patrickssj6\\team fortress 2"
"HasAllLocalContent" "1"
"UpToDate" "1"
"maintenance_time" "1324739657"
}

[Amit]

Oh snap, nice. I know there's a fan made program out there, but I'd rather not mess with that if I can just edit the file locations. I'm going to apply this tonight.

[Amit]

Jesus christ this is starting to piss me off. 10 failed installations of windows onto my SSD.

The very first time I've ever attempted to install windows on it, it goes through everything and restarts to complete the install. And then it sat at that for 4 hours. So I restarted the PC into safemode and brought up the command prompt using Shift+F10 and launching the device manager to check for driver issues. I thought it was a video driver issue, but it isn't. So I restart my pc normally hoping the installation will complete this time. I get and error saying that windows needs to be reinstalled. I say, fine, let's try again. So I boot PartedMagic from a USB drive and use enhanced secure erase to wipe the damn thing and try installing windows again. Everything partitions fine, files copy to the drive fine. Installer starts to expand the files, but the installer always fails at random percentages.

My 10th attempt, which I just made using a completely different USB stick and completely different Windows 7 ISO, failed at 100% of expanding windows files. The error that I keep getting is: "Windows cannot install required files. Make sure all files required for installation are available and restart in the installation. code: 0x8007045D"

I've googled this issue to hell and back and found zero solutions. HALP ME! What the fuck do I do? My DVD drive is IDE and my motherboard only takes SATA, so I can't use a DVD to install windows. Are my USB installers becoming corrupt mid-installation or something?

Note: I already flashed my BIOS to the latest stable version and set the drive configuration to AHCI.

[ThePlague]

Are you formatting and creating a new partition before installing each time? The partition could be corrupt that you're trying to install on.

[=sw=warlord]

@Amit:
I imagine this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119257) would come in use for you.

[Zeph]

For 15 bucks he could buy a cheap DVD drive. Maybe even two of them if he shops around.

edit: it's most likely that your USB image is bad.

[Amit]

Are you formatting and creating a new partition before installing each time? The partition could be corrupt that you're trying to install on.

I erase the thing completely, then boot the installer and let windows create the system reserved partition and the other one for the OS itself.


@Amit:
I imagine this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119257) would come in use for you.

I was going to pick up a similar at the same time that I bought the SSD, but I forgot to. I figured that I wouldn't need one after I got home, though, since I only do USB installations now, really. Installations are super fast on my Patriot Xporter Boost 8GB USB drives. Usually about ten minutes to fully install windows 7.



For 15 bucks he could buy a cheap DVD drive. Maybe even two of them if he shops around.

edit: it's most likely that your USB image is bad.

I've used 4 different USB drives with three different ISO files. Hell, I even ripped a retail Ultimate x64 disc twice and used those files. The USB couldn't be bad. especially when they all work for installing on other drives. I plugged in a 30GB HDD i had lying around and managed to install windows three times from three of the USB drives (all using different USB images).

I still want to try a real DVD before I write this drive off.

[Cortexian]

It took me 7 minutes 20~ seconds to install Windows 7 Professional w/SP1 from disk to my SSD. USB should be 5 minutes or less.

[Bodzilla]

looking to build a desktop PC for my Miss's to use i'm thinking lower mid-range because she wont take full advantage of a gaming rig, but i'd like to be able to have some games be playable on it.

what do yas recommend?

[Amit]

It took me 7 minutes 20~ seconds to install Windows 7 Professional w/SP1 from disk to my SSD. USB should be 5 minutes or less.

Hmm, well I pulled the WD Caviar Black from my Lenovo T520 and popped the V200 inside. From my Partriot USB drive, it expanded the windows files quite quickly in 4 minutes and no error so far. Restarting now.

Let's see if this works.

Edit 1: Well, the installation went through flawlessly in less than 10 minutes including typing in all that extra information when using the OS for the first time. So that rules out bad installation media (no messed up USB drive). I'm starting to think my Desktop's motherboard is the issue. 10 failed installations and then it works the first time when installing on my laptop? Does that sound right to you?

My desktop specs are:

AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE
Gigabyte GA-970A-D3
Sapphire HD 5750 Vapor-X
Kingston 2x4GB DDR3 1600Mhz KHX1600C9D3B1K2/8GX (running at 1333Mhz)


EDIT 2:

Okay, well I swapped out my old SATA cable for a new SATA III cable that came with the motherboard and proceeded to reinstall windows on the V200 again. This time it worked flawlessly and much quicker, but I have a feeling it's not because of the cable switch. My mechanical hard drive needs to run in IDE mode to even boot windows for some reason, even though it's a SATA drive. So I forgot to switch my motherboard to AHCI mode before doing the installation on the SSD. So I'm using the SSD right now, but it's probably suffering from decreased performance due to it being installed and running in IDE mode rather than AHCI. I've also noticed that Windows 7 doesn't recognize that I'm using an SSD since the sleep, hibernate, and all those other unnecessary features are still active. I've read online that you can change the mode by changing some entries in the Registry. I think I'll try that before reinstalling and seeing if the speeds are where they should be.

[Amit]

Okay, well I swapped out my old SATA cable for a new SATA III cable that came with the motherboard and proceeded to reinstall windows on the V200 again. This time it worked flawlessly and much quicker, but I have a feeling it's not because of the cable switch. My mechanical hard drive needs to run in IDE mode to even boot windows for some reason, even though it's a SATA drive. So I forgot to switch my motherboard to AHCI mode before doing the installation on the SSD. So I'm using the SSD right now, but it's probably suffering from decreased performance due to it being installed and running in IDE mode rather than AHCI. I've also noticed that Windows 7 doesn't recognize that I'm using an SSD since the sleep, hibernate, and all those other unnecessary features are still active. I've read online that you can change the mode by changing some entries in the Registry. I think I'll try that before reinstalling and seeing if the speeds are where they should be.

This is the guide that I'm going to use: http://www.windows7news.com/2010/05/25/how-to-enable-ahci-in-windows-7/

(http://www.windows7news.com/2010/05/25/how-to-enable-ahci-in-windows-7/)Do you guys think this will still cause my performance to be less than if I was to just clean install?

Edit: WTF is this shit?

Native IDE:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/IDE.png

AHCI:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/AHCI.png


How the hell did I lose performance by switching the AHCI? I've also noticed that my boot up time is about 3 seconds slower in AHCI mode instead of IDE, too.

[{XG}Gijs007]

Okay, well I swapped out my old SATA cable for a new SATA III cable that came with the motherboard and proceeded to reinstall windows on the V200 again. This time it worked flawlessly and much quicker, but I have a feeling it's not because of the cable switch. My mechanical hard drive needs to run in IDE mode to even boot windows for some reason, even though it's a SATA drive. So I forgot to switch my motherboard to AHCI mode before doing the installation on the SSD. So I'm using the SSD right now, but it's probably suffering from decreased performance due to it being installed and running in IDE mode rather than AHCI. I've also noticed that Windows 7 doesn't recognize that I'm using an SSD since the sleep, hibernate, and all those other unnecessary features are still active. I've read online that you can change the mode by changing some entries in the Registry. I think I'll try that before reinstalling and seeing if the speeds are where they should be.

This is the guide that I'm going to use: http://www.windows7news.com/2010/05/25/how-to-enable-ahci-in-windows-7/

(http://www.windows7news.com/2010/05/25/how-to-enable-ahci-in-windows-7/)Do you guys think this will still cause my performance to be less than if I was to just clean install?

Edit: WTF is this shit?

Native IDE:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/IDE.png

AHCI:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/AHCI.png


How the hell did I lose performance by switching the AHCI? I've also noticed that my boot up time is about 3 seconds slower in AHCI mode instead of IDE, too.

Did you install your chipset drivers, and are you using the latest bios?
if so this is weird.

[Amit]

BIOS, yes. Chipset, nope, I forgot. Thanks for reminding me!

Edit: Where do I even get AMD chipset drivers? Amd.com doesn't have chipset drivers for Phenom II CPUs.

[Cortexian]

Yeah that's weird. Chipset drivers are usually provided on mobo makers site if not on AMD's site directly. AHCI should definately be providing a performance boost.

[Amit]

Thanks, it was on Gigabyte's website. I forgot chipsets go by motherboard and not by CPU.

EDIT: Steaming pile of WTF?

I downloaded the chipset driver from Gigabyte and extracted the files. I run the installer and guess what happens? An installer for Catalyst Control Center pops up. WTF? somebody fucked up on the chipset driver package. I continued with the menus just to see what it wanted to install and it wanted to upgrade my latest driver set to some outdated one from April 2010. Jesus Christ. The description on the site says it includes SATA drivers, which are probably the ones that would fix my problem. Maybe I'll try a European mirror and see if that gives me the same bullshit.

EDIT 2: Nvm, the extra drivers are in the packages folder. Why the hell would they put it within an outdated CCC install though? It seems retarded since not all AMD users have AMD GPUs.

EDIT 3: Wow this installer was cryptic as hell. I finally found the AHCI driver installer, but then it told me it needed to use the CCC installer to do it. So I clicked yes and it went through.

Really AMD? You have to make installing drivers that complicated for the end user?

EDIT 4: Well here's all my tests lined up side by side. The order is this: IDE>>AHCI>>AHCI Updated Driver

Note that I installed BF3 after the first two tests, so the SSD is 31% more full than it was when I did the first two tests.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/IDE-1.pnghttp://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/AHCI-1.pnghttp://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/AHCI2.png

I don't really know what to make of the most recent one. It has the best Sequential Read rating so far, but by far the worst Sequential Write. Random Read is the best yet, but writes are still abysmally low.

EDIT 5:

So I did the test one more time using a single pass and got this, so what I have here is really a mixed bag:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/AHCI3.png

EDIT 6: Turns out I didn't use the correct AHCI driver. I got the real latest one from the Catalyst 11.12 package and got slightly better results:

The one to the left used 5 passes and the one on the right used 9 passes.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/AHCI4.png http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/AHCI5.png

Looks like my Sequential speeds are finally where they need to be, but the Random reads/writes seem to be a lot slower than they were advertised. Oh well, that's a known issue for this drive and Kingston is probably working on a fix now.

[Cortexian]

Update your CrystalDiskMark version.

What my M4 gets:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6756/m4benchmark.jpg

[Amit]

Update your CrystalDiskMark version.

Look at my screen shots. I'm using the same version as you.

[Cortexian]

Oh nvm I was confusing it with CrystalDiskInfo which is version 4.1.4.

[Warsaw]

Alright, check it. Two potential builds I'm considering for purchase at the end of this month. Primary usage:
-Games
-Video Encoding
-Rendering
-pr0n
-lasting six years with marginal (if any) upgrades.

And by marginal, I mean nothing more than adding another 16GB of RAM and/or more hard drives (SSD!).

Mmmk, first up, X79:

Mobo - ASUS PX79 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131804)

CPU - Core i7-3930K (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116492)

RAM - 16 GB (4x4 GB)Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 1600 (1.5v) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233197)

GPU - 1x Radeon HD 7970 (brand agnostic, but Sapphire, XFX, and HIS are front-runners) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102961)

HDD - 1 TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185)

Case - Fractal Design XL (Black) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352017)

Total: $1820 (sans S&H)

And now, Z68:

Mobo - ASRock Z68 Professional Gen3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157263&Tpk=ASRock Z68 Professional)

CPU - i7-2600K (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070&Tpk=i7 2600K)

RAM - 16 GB (4x4 GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (1.5v) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233197)

GPU - 2x Radeon HD 7970 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102961)

SSD - 120 GB SanDisk Ultra (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171545)

Case - Fractal Design XL (Black) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352017)

Total: $2050

On the one hand, I get better future-proofing and I can always grab that second HD 7970 later. On the other hand, the Z68 platform is more immediately powerful than the X79, but that's as good as it will ever get.

What do you guys think? Slow and steady or bumrush? Swap out that HDD above for the SSD? I do have a 750GB Caviar Green I have lying around that I can scrounge, but it's a Caviar Green. I already have a 1080W PSU and DVD-burner, so those are not issues to consider. I'm also thinking about this fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186049) for both systems, as I intend to OC. Not ready to jump into a full-on water cooled solution, but I am willing to consider closed-loop systems as long as they are price/performance competitive with the best air solutions.

Also, the GTX 580 is looking attractive, as it is competitive with the 7970 for $50 less. However, it will be harder to get a hold of one later down the line should I go with the X79, relative to the 7970 (which just came out).

[Amit]

Are you sure you want to throw down $600 for a single video card? I'd say if there was anything to replace further down the line, it would be the video card. If you go for some lower end cards that are significantly cheaper, you can get newer technology in those cards more often. I'm not doubting that the 7970 can get a lot of mileage, though.

[Cortexian]

Well the 7970 is a top-end card, so the mileage should be AT LEAST 6 years of new releases on Ultra/Very High GPU settings. Maybe knock it down to High/Medium with less AA (or no AA) in the later portion of that time frame. Two would easily last 6 years on Very High settings with no AA.

For CPU cooling I'd recommend the Noctua NH-D14 or the Corsair H80. The H100 isn't THAT much better than the H80, however the H80 is price/performance competitive with the NH-D14 without taking up as much space. Not to mention it puts less physical stress on your motherboard since it weighs a lot less.

GTX 580's should be available NIB for at least 3 years, conservatively. You may have to look a little harder after two years though. If you'd plan on getting a second card within 3 years I would recommend going for the GTX 580 instead of the HD 7970, especially if you use Adobe Premiere. Premiere uses the Mercury Playback Engine to render video effects in scrubbing and playback live if you have an Nvidia card newer than the GeForce GTX 8800. If you don't use Premiere it's really up to you on that front. AMD Eyefinity is still the best multi-monitor solution out there for gaming since Nvidia Surround is limited to, and requires three monitors.


I would actually go for the Z68 setup with two GTX 580's and a Crucial M4 120GB instead of the SanDisk. All I hear is good about the M4 and my personal experience since getting it has been great. They're all coming with the latest firmware available right now and getting greater than advertised speeds with Intel-level reliability.

Just note that the i7-2600k isn't as good for overclocking as the i5-2500k. I'm sure you already know this, it basically boils down to the fact that there's more components and "stuff" going on in the 2600k. That means more heat and less stability at higher-than-recommended speeds. Lots of people have to disable the hyper-threading or entire cores to get a stable overclock. Some 2600k chips get luck-of-the-draw advantage though and overclock great with everything enabled and low voltage. As with any chip it comes down to the individual chip and inconsistency with the manufacturing process. I would seriously weigh your usage and determine if you really need the 2600k for rendering work, the 2500k will still be fast.

Also, post pics.

[Warsaw]

Leave it to the Austrians to pick a fan colour scheme that matches absolutely nothing.

The Noctua looks good, though the fact that it requires a separate mounting kit for LGA 2011 is a bit of a bother. I'm leaning more towards X79 because that CPU won't be trumped in any meaningful way for at least 3 years and if it is, it will be by a fellow LGA 2011 CPU. That means I can just pop in another LGA 2011. LGA 1155 dies in June this year when Ivy Bridge comes out. That's it. X79 still has Ivy Bridge-E ahead of it. Not to mention, the X79 build is already $200 cheaper (surprise, surprise). AM3+ also dies this April, with the release of Piledriver. Really, it's lose-lose to have to buy a new platform right now. That's why X58 was also in the running. Its performance is still great and it's far cheaper than any of the new stuff. And it has only just now become obsolete, and only barely.

@Amit: I can't just buy a cheaper GPU to tide me over because if I buy two GTX 680s at the end of this year, it means that I now have a kick-ass GPU (HD 6970/GTX 570) lying around with no computer to put it in. The next best PC in this house is still running an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Socket 939, and it has an AGP 8x graphics slot. I currently own the only PCI-Express capable rig in the house, and it's also a Socket 939. Bottleneck supreme. It's better to buy at least one top-end now and add to it later when said top-end comes down in price as manufacturing yields improve.


To give you guys a reference, though, I've been running this rig since December 2004. The only additions have been 1 GB of RAM (total 2GB), a sound card (HT Omega Striker), and an upgrade from a GeForce 6600GT to a GeForce 7800GT in early 2005 (resulted in getting a new mobo, but mobos hardly affect performance). I've been running just about everything on maximum settings except for those games which just won't run at all because I have a single core CPU (APB, RO2, BFBC2, Metro 2033, Crysis). I want this new computer to last that long, preferably. Spend more now, spend less later. Buy the best now, and you get maximum mileage out of your parts. I'm running a 17" monitor at 1280x1024 at the moment, so one HD7970 or GTX 580 is excessive overkill, let alone two. The next item on the shopping list is a Dell Ultrasharp 27", though, so it won't be that way for long. Alternatively, I might buy three monitors in 1920x1200, but that's not as likely (FFFFFFFF bezels). I like having one really big desk to work on better than having three smaller ones.

This summer is going to be busy. Jobs, teaching myself how to model for real, catching up to everyone in BF3, learning how to map with CryEngine 3. Fun stuff.

[Zeph]

Don't go with a 7970 unless you have specific plans tied to the cards. For 150 bucks, you can get a GTX 550ti that will run everything that's out there today on the highest settings (not as much AA/AF though). A year and a half or two years from now you can buy a GTX 650 ti for a hundred fifty bucks that will replace your "medium to high settings" video card. Even then, you might not see much of a need to upgrade until the generation after that.

I got my 590 to get around certain problems with CryEngine. If I didn't need to do that, I'd have just bought a 550/560ti and upgraded again after two or three years. Yeah the 590 will last me for five or six years, as I'll have probably bought a new mobo/cpu to replace my 2600k by then, but I'm kinda stuck with it unless I want to ignore the price I paid for it.

[Donut]

^ i dont know from experience, but ive heard the 550ti isnt really worth the money. the 560ti, however, is what i have, and i can pull a solid 60 fps anywhere in battlefield 3 with everything on high with that post AA thing off. idfk what that is but it fucking annihilates my frame rate.
the 560ti is also like 70 bucks more expensive though. but seeing as hes going for a 7970, something tells me 220 dollars is within his GPU budget, lol.

[Warsaw]

I do have plans for the 7970(s), to the tune of 2560x1440. A GTX 570 won't cut it there, let alone a 560. Remember, Zeph, when you told me that if I'm going all the way that I should be getting dual 6990s? Well, I am going all the way, and a 7970 (later two) matches a GTX 590 with a little bit of OC magic. So yeah, I'm already taking your advice. :)

[Zeph]

I do have plans for the 7970(s), to the tune of 2560x1440. A GTX 570 won't cut it there, let alone a 560. Remember, Zeph, when you told me that if I'm going all the way that I should be getting dual 6990s? Well, I am going all the way, and a 7970 (later two) matches a GTX 590 with a little bit of OC magic. So yeah, I'm already taking your advice. :)

Yeah, that was before I took out the 550 and installed the 590. Both cards ran all games at the highest settings 1920x1200. Go back five years and that wouldn't have happened. We're at a weird point in hardware because developers haven't started utilizing the heavy parts of DX11. At the time they actually do start using it (if they do, mobile is making huge fucking leaps and bounds), the 7k generation will be aging. It's one of those things you have to experience instead of simply looking at benches.


edit: don't get me wrong, the benches are right. I'm just telling you what I found when I asked myself what I can do with the thing now.

[Warsaw]

Once consoles move on, all of a sudden we'll be out of this stagnant rut for at least a couple of years. When the next Xbox comes out (not counting the Wii U, because that's using a Radeon 4870), we won't be able to rely upon mid-range cards maxing out the latest games.

I bought the 6600GT with the same mindset you have now, and it was great back then. That said, I don't think it would have given me the 7 year mileage that the 7800GT I upgraded to has. I can buy a $270 card now, and a $270 one later, but what's the point? I could just spend the $550 up front and still get the same result. The less that I have to dive inside my case to throw in new parts, the better.

So yeah. We're going balls-deep for this one, since I'm hoping for eight years, but no less than six. The biggest roadblock is the shortage of LGA 2011 CPUs, which itself is a result of a rare issue in the current C1 stepping that prevents users from moving the multiplier past stock settings. Intel has just let current stocks of C1 dry up. The C2 stepping is supposedly hitting retailers by 20 January.

[InnerGoat]

Go with your first choice, the x79, once the new revision of the 3930k shows up :)

[Cortexian]

I'd actually get a cheap processor and wait for Ivy Bridge. Don't even bother getting a k version right now if you do that.

[=sw=warlord]

I'd actually get a cheap processor and wait for Ivy Bridge. Don't even bother getting a k version right now if you do that.
Or he can get sandy bridge which supports up to quad channel where as ivy bridge only supports dual.

[king_nothing_]

Can someone tell me if this Lucid Virtu stuff would allow me to run three monitors with one Nvidia card + the 2500-2700k's GPU? I only actually use two monitors at my desk, but I have my TV connected as well that I frequently run XBMC on to watch movies. I'm considering building a new computer and I really don't want to get another AMD GPU (ever again) just for Eyefinity.

[Cortexian]

Or he can get sandy bridge which supports up to quad channel where as ivy bridge only supports dual.
Since when? IB is the yet to be released chips for socket 2011.

Either way, going with Ivy would probably net you better performance.

[InnerGoat]

w hat

Ivy Bridge, like Sandy Bridge, is for socket 1155

IVB-E and SB-E are for s2011

[InnerGoat]

Can someone tell me if this Lucid Virtu stuff would allow me to run three monitors with one Nvidia card + the 2500-2700k's GPU? I only actually use two monitors at my desk, but I have my TV connected as well that I frequently run XBMC on to watch movies. I'm considering building a new computer and I really don't want to get another AMD GPU (ever again) just for Eyefinity.

No and yes. You don't need any of the Lucid stuff installed to do what you want. Just install Intel's GPU driver and your Nvidia driver as usual, that's it. I'm running two displays off of a GTX570 and the third off the onboard Intel GPU. Some motherboards have two outputs so you can drive 4 displays if you wanted to.

:)

[=sw=warlord]

w hat

Ivy Bridge, like Sandy Bridge, is for socket 1155

IVB-E and SB-E are for s2011
Ah I've not seen any info about IB-E yet that's where my comment was coming from.

[Cortexian]

Yeah, what I meant is that the 2011 socket processors support quad-channel memory.

else wtf

[Warsaw]

Since when? IB is the yet to be released chips for socket 2011.

Either way, going with Ivy would probably net you better performance.

Ivy Bridge is the drop-in upgrade for owners of Z68 or the up-coming IVB-specific chipsets. It does not support quad-channel memory or feature a full compliment of PCIe lanes. Performance is also likely to be a marginal upgrade to Sandy Bridge; the main focus of Ivy is to get the power-performance ratio to an all time low. It might net better performance per clock than SNB-E, but then I can always drop in an IVB-E CPU later if it turns out that the computing difference is all that great. And I doubt it will be.

As for IVB-E, it's essentially just a die-shrink of SNB-E, allowing for better performance per watt. Probably also add native support for USB 3.0 in a chipset revision. Since SNB-E already has PCI-E 3.0, it's hardly that different.

[king_nothing_]

No and yes. You don't need any of the Lucid stuff installed to do what you want. Just install Intel's GPU driver and your Nvidia driver as usual, that's it. I'm running two displays off of a GTX570 and the third off the onboard Intel GPU. Some motherboards have two outputs so you can drive 4 displays if you wanted to.

:)
Ah, good deal, thanks.

[Zeph]

I'm going to be getting two 24" ultrasharps some time next week and placing an order for a 24" Cintiq. The Cintiq is going to eat up a huge portion of my desk so I'd like to have some adjustable arms for the ultrasharps to make best use of space at any time. It can't be wall mounted and needs the ability to reach negative elevation. I also want them to be able to rotate into portrait mode from landscape. Here are some screens roughing out my desk.

http://modreality.net/images/Desk%20Shape.JPG
It's an odd desk considering tech nowadays, but the original idea on the desk was that the tower went in the thing in the middle and the monitor (crt era) went on the stand up top. Left and right were shelves for books, notes, etc. that have been cannibalized for other parts of my room. Now, I have a small subwoofer on the lower rack and use the upper rack as a leg rest.

I got away with using this desk over the past four/five years because the hole in front of the "monitor area" gave my laptop amazing ventilation.

http://modreality.net/images/Tower%20and%20Keyboard.JPG
Here's what's on there now that needs to be worked around. Big thing is my tower and the gray is length/width of my keyboard. I'm right handed so the space on the inside right of the keyboard is mouse space.

http://modreality.net/images/Big%20Cintiq.JPG
This, unfortunately, is the footprint and face space of a 24" cintiq on my desk. It's too large to be centered and pushing it to the right is cutting into my mouse space. Until I get it, I can't even be sure if my keyboard will fit underneath it (Logitech G510). I've never really used that side of my desk other than for trash and a lamp. I'll have to find a new source of light for the desk when I get the cintiq.

http://modreality.net/images/Two%20Monitors.JPG
http://modreality.net/images/Two%20Monitors%20Back.JPG

This is the rough eye level of the ultrasharps I want. It wouldn't be possible without adjustable monitor arms. The blue circled area is where I usually have a center channel speaker for 5.1. I'd like to keep that there if possible.

Any suggestion on what to buy for monitor arms or another arrangement?

[Cortexian]

If that desk is actually in a corner with walls behind the tower and second monitor you could just get two adjustable wall-mounts for the monitors. The ones that let you push/pull/tilt/rotate would be perfect.

[Zeph]

Not in a corner. Left side of the desk is flush against a wall and there's about a me-sized gap between the right side and another wall. I'll have to mount the arms on the desk itself.

[=sw=warlord]

You can get a mount that attaches to the desk it self.
I've got one my self.

[Zeph]

Meh, gonna push back getting the cintiq till fall. Gonna build a new desk over summer that would work out better with it. Gonna grab three ultrasharps instead. What price should I expect for the mounts? I'm seeing huge discounts on places like amazon over their "official" retail price.

[Bodzilla]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/bodzilla_1/WoodworkFolio002.jpg

thats how you need to have it.
anything below your feet is an annoyance, but as long as you have 800mm's between the outtermost points of say drawers or a housing for your computer your perfectly fine.

[Bodzilla]

seriously talk this shit with me, because this is what i DO.

[Warsaw]

So, it's 26 January, and no word from Intel on when i7-3930K stocks would start replenishing. I need a new computer and I need it last Christmas.

The question:

To wait, or Z68?

[Cortexian]

I thought Intel said they were going to let the 3930k stock dry up in preperation for newer chip releases?

[Warsaw]

They never said that. I've been doing some digging since that last post, and it appears that Intel is scrambling to address this shortage (which is world wide). By Intel Work Week 5, the online retailers should start getting them back in stock.

We are on Work Week 3. I sure as hell am not going to pay a $90 premium to get one off of Amazon, one that is more than likely of C1 stepping and not C2. Buying pre-built to circumvent the OLR shortage is out of the question entirely.

We'll see.

[JackalStomper]

So my GPU is pooping out and I'm looking for a new one. I'm just not sure yet if I should wait it out for the NVIDIA 600 series to come out sometime this year in hope of the 500's going down in price, or just get a 560 now. Not looking at any radeon, I still have nightmares about their horrible drivers.

[Cortexian]

The 560 ti's are pretty damn good price-wise. I still don't know when the 600 series GPU's are slated for released so you might be waiting awhile.

[JackalStomper]

Apparently they'll be released around Q2 this year. But this would be the second delay, the first being Q4 2011 -> Q1 2012. So take that with a grain of salt.

[Warsaw]

I've read June at the earliest.

[Amit]

Not looking at any radeon, I still have nightmares about their horrible drivers.

You should consider AMD. Drivers aren't as fucked as they used to be (8+ years ago). nVidia is the one with all the driver mishaps.

[Cortexian]

Haven't had any Nvidia driver mishaps since ever.

Nvidia driver updates just improve performance, they rarely fix flaws.

[Warsaw]

We know. That's why you are now going through your second GPU in a relatively short time frame, right?

As for me, I'm thinking of just going Z68 now, and here's why:

By the time performance requirements for software has made any Sandy-Bridge /SNB-E CPUs as obsolete as my Athlon 64 3200+, we will have progressed at least TWO enthusiast generations from now (X99?). Combine that with the fact that SNB-E is not appreciably better than SNB unless you do extreme productivity, the high cost of motherboards, and the fact that SNB already has 8 logical cores, and there is nothing for it. I can wait two weeks for C2 stepping, but X79 is just as dead as Z68. Or, I can buy now and be just as well off. I sincerely doubt IVB will be much better than SNB, and it for sure will have a greater impact on the mobile landscape than on the desktop.

I would like to have the ability to just throw 4 more DIMMs into my computer to increase RAM and I would like the full x16 width PCI-E lanes, but with Intel giving us the stick, there's nothing for it. They are hell-bent on two-year platform refreshes, now demolishing any hope you have at investing in an enthusiast platform. I doubt we'll ever see another LGA 775 or X58.

Then there's price, but price isn't really in play here.

Thoughts?

E: The PCI-E 2.0 8x nature of multi-card configs on Z68 is also a known bottleneck to high end video cards. Rectified by dropping an IVB CPU into the slot to enable PCI-E 3.0, but that's a stupid upgrade if you already have SNB. X79 is PCI-E 3.0 capable out of the gate.

[Cortexian]

We know. That's why you are now going through your second GPU in a relatively short time frame, right?
Why yes, I am going through my second refurbished RMA GPU in a relatively short period of time. Actually it's my fourth replacement card, but I never expect much from refurbished cards from RMA departments.

Also, it looks like it may not be my GPU. I have one more card to test on my second GPU slot but individually the cards have been working fine so far...

[Warsaw]

Refurb or not, you still have to keep on replacing it. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to keep diving in to fix something. It's like having to bring your car into the shop every six months because your transmission keeps breaking in one way or another (read: my car is a PoS).

[Cortexian]

True, but it's the same for all refub cards most of the time. And it's not related to drivers AT ALL, those were my main points.

I'm not really sure what's causing it. What do you guys think it could be if it only happens when both cards in in the system in SLI mode?

[=sw=warlord]

Refurb or not, you still have to keep on replacing it. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to keep diving in to fix something. It's like having to bring your car into the shop every six months because your transmission keeps breaking in one way or another (read: my car is a PoS).
Sounds a bit like the UK's MOT system.

E/ make sure your PSU is not on the fringe.
You can get tools to test how much life is left, the other option is if the cards work in other systems and it's SLI it may be your motherboard is packing heat.

[Warsaw]

True, but it's the same for all refub cards most of the time. And it's not related to drivers AT ALL, those were my main points.

I'm not really sure what's causing it. What do you guys think it could be if it only happens when both cards in in the system in SLI mode?

Bad SLI bridge? Motherboard-bound issue? CPU getting too hot, causing issues with PCI-E cross-talk?

And yeah, it's also the same for used cars. Seems like a great deal at the time of purchase, but then you find out why it was such a bargain.

[InnerGoat]

Radeon 7950s are out or something, have fun

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5476/amd-radeon-7950-review

[Cortexian]

Nvidia hurry up and stomp AMD with GTX 600's.

[Warsaw]

I have no doubt that Nvidia will do so, but AMD will just slash prices and Nvidia will be left with a $700 space heater whose only market segment is those playing games on three 2560x1600 monitors. With the Xbox 720 rumored to be sporting a Radeon HD 6670, it doesn't look like we'll be getting anything truly demanding for the foreseeable future; might be better to save your money and grab two GTX580s/590s or two HD7950s/7970s and call it a decade.

Also, I don't know how much longer Nvidia can sustain the huge, monolithic GPU that pushes pixels at the cost of excessive heat generation and power consumption, but I feel like they are going to have to go back to the drawing board soon. Have you noticed that their development cycle has been getting longer and longer starting with the GTX280? Sure, the performance benefits are great, but it looks like they are just trying to push back the wall that they are about to run straight into while they figure out a way around.

Not an Nvidia hater here, just musing on the state of the GPU market.

[Cortexian]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, though three 1920x1200 monitors require the same top-end cards that most triple 2560x1600 setups do. The sheer amount of extra pixels when running triple-screen just destroys single card solutions, and all but the best multi card solutions.

I will likely upgrade to dual HD 6990's or 7990's instead of GTX 690's since the performance will likely be similar but AMD will likely have a better price.

[Zeph]

Working with my college to figure out what to stick in our computers for a complete hardware refresh this fall. Having a bit of a disagreement on video cards right now. On the faculty side, they're looking to get Quadro5000s (6k if they drop in price to the current 5k's level) while from a student side we're pushing for non-workstation cards. I know the Quadro5k/6k pull from the GTX 400 series, but I can't find anything to directly compare between a Quadro and GTX (nature of the benches I suppose). Anyone have a direct comparison with Quadros and GTXs benching both productivity and real time?

The faculty are taking into consideration that rendering on the GPU is tending to be more common and are looking at the Quadro hoping it could help in the future. It's a valid concern, but considering the rest of the department it could be a hindrance. Any offline rendering done on a Quadro would also be able to be done on a GTX as well. While the Quadro would be great for the Maya/Photoshop/Film side of the department, we're getting our interaction/games side rolling as well. Quadros really suck when it comes to the real time applications. You're lucky if you can get 10 fps on a student's basic brush level assignment.

For the price, we could wind up with top tier current gen GTX/HD GPUs and update again the next generation for less than a single Quadro5000. The question is, how much of a difference would we notice when it comes to rendering? These are students that we're talking about, so we're not looking at any Pixar-level render times. Even so, they are students and don't always know how to best optimize render settings so it's easy to say that they'll be rending longer than they should.

[Cortexian]

Look into some postings from the guy who runs Digital Blasphemy. He had the same problem when he was looking to upgrade his GPU's for rendering. He ended up going with the consumer GTX cards instead of the Quadro cards since there was such little difference in performace.

[JackalStomper]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127565

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127545

Which one.

I have no interest in higher end cards, nor the need for one.

[ThePlague]

I own that 6870, and the thing is a beast. I'd go for it. Running Battlefield 3 at 1600x900 High with at least 80 fps or over, depending on the area of the map.

[Amit]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127565

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127545

Which one.

I have no interest in higher end cards, nor the need for one.

Those are both high-end cards, not the ultra high end cards. I'd go with the 6870 for power efficiency and EyeFinity.

[Bodzilla]

i'd shell out a little more for a 6950

i have the card and it's actually amazing

[Amit]

I'd agree with that. I'm sure the 6870 would last a long time, but if you go high enough up (to say like a GTX 570/HD6950) you know you're not gonna need another GPU for at least another 2-3 years...unless you're like ThePlague and destroy GPUs as a weekend project.

[ThePlague]

I'd agree with that. I'm sure the 6870 would last a long time, but if you go high enough up (to say like a GTX 570/HD6950) you know you're not gonna need another GPU for at least another 2-3 years...unless you're like ThePlague and destroy GPUs as a weekend project.Took like a week...not a weekend. But I got another 6870 out of it so when the time comes I can crossfire :D AKA when games actually work with crossfire properly...

[Amit]

Well, if you're only using one card currently, you were better off with the HD 5870 that you bricked.

[Bodzilla]

out of you guys that have done alot of builds for other people, what is your PC case of choice.

looking for 90 degree mounted HD's, dust filters, bottom mounted PSU and a fan on top of the case similar to the antex 600

[JackalStomper]

...what size

[Amit]

I'm guessing he would accept suggestions for both mid tower and full tower ATX cases.

[JackalStomper]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197

[Bodzilla]

as long as it's not rediculously wide or big it doesnt matter so much, once i've seen some suggestions from you guys i'll get the exact dimensions for the housing it sits in.

[Amit]

I have the CM HAF 922. It's a big midtower case (pretty much a full tower), but it's not ridiculously big. It is almost the same size as the HAF 932 despite being a lower-end product than the 932. Plenty of space for everything, but the features for that case are sort of dated now. You might want to go with a cheaper case that has better features. something like the Antec Three Hundred Two (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129180) which was released last month.

[JackalStomper]

I'm not so sure about the mounting brackets on that antec, but other than that it looks good.

Really tempted to get that 922 though

dammit bod i can't afford to be buying cases right now!

[Cortexian]

Corsair Obsidian 700D.

Corsair cases are the only cases.

[Amit]

Corsair Obsidian 700D.

Corsair cases are the only cases.

And what of your CM 960 690?:P

[Cortexian]

690*

The 690 II isn't bad but they're both crap by comparison.

[Amit]

True and sry for the butchering of the model number. In my head I knew it was the 690, but for some reason I wrote the 9 first...

[JackalStomper]

Went with the 560ti, lower power consumption and heat output sold me. Now for The Waiting Game.

[Warsaw]

Alright. I thought I was going to get a laptop, which is why I haven't ordered anything yet, but then I decided that while I do need something for school, it's not an urgent need and I'd rather have something that can play everything maxed out now AND later as opposed to something that might be able to run a few games maxed out now at 1080p but will suck in a year.

So I present my final build, barring any compelling suggestions:

Motherboard - ASRock X79 Extreme 6 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157289)

CPU - Core i7 3820 3.6GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115229)

RAM - 16 GB (4x4GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 Low-Profile (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233197)

SSD - Crucial M4 128GB SATA III (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148442)

Cooling - Intel Liquid Cooling (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835203006)

GPU - Powercolor HD7970 (x2) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131452)

Case - Fractal Design XL Pearl Black (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352017)

Total Price: $2177.92 before any MIRs.

The locked multiplier on the i7-3820 isn't a deal-breaker because it's actually still really easy to overclock. This CPU also lets me have all of the features I want from the X79 platform without requiring me to spend another $300 on two cores I'm not going to actually need. Faster RAM is unnecessary because tests on tech sites have shown that Sandy Bridge really doesn't care how fast your RAM is, unlike Bulldozer and K10. I also hate obnoxious fins, also unnecessary. The ASRock board has all the features you could ever really want in an X79 motherboard without the huge sticker price; the Extreme 9 was not worth the increase and the Rampage IV is just an exercise in vanity. The Crucial SSD is replacing the SanDisk from earlier because it's now only $10 more expensive and it has far superior ratings; I like reliability. The liquid cooling loop for the CPU is actually made by Asetek, the same company that manufactures Antec's and Corsair's similar offerings. The Intel one hasn't had reports of whining unlike the Corsaid H80, and it's only $1 more expensive. Easy choice.

I'm also thinking about this monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185011) or a Dell Ultrasharp 27, depending on what my discount on Dell stuff turns out to be. I think it's 15%, which would make the Ultrasharp a no-brainer.

So, any suggestions before I make the order?

[InnerGoat]

Where's your PSU? Also do you have and extra HDDs going into it? You'll fill the SSD so fast if it's the only storage drive in there. :-3

ps get the Dell u3011 or HP zr30w

[Tnnaas]

Yo, a little help here. I'm thinking about doing a quick, low-budget upgrade for my computer. I'm replacing the CPU, Motherboard, and RAM cards. I need some assistance on the RAM cards I'm going after.

G.Skill 8GB
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231308)Kingston 8GB

(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134928)I've been looking at some of the ratings and reviews. The G.Skill cards are higher rated but look like they come with a lot of issues. The Kingston cards aren't as popular, but they seem to have less problems (as well as less buyers).

If it helps any, this is the Motherboard I've been looking at: ASUS P5G41T-M LX PLUS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131794)

Any help at all will be appreciated.

[Zeph]

I'd get a 120GB 520-series SSD from intel over the Crucial M4. Far more reliable and you like reliability.

[Cortexian]

@Warsaw: The Crucial M4's are the next most reliable thing to Intel SSD (almost on par), and they're significantly cheaper. Stay with the Crucial.

Why get Low-Profile DIMM's if you're water-cooling the CPU? The crazy looking heat-spreaders are still slightly better at doing their jobs (more surface area).

Intel liquid cooling over Corsair/Antec? Any reason why?


@DarkHalcyon: GSkill would be better.

[Warsaw]

Where's your PSU? Also do you have and extra HDDs going into it? You'll fill the SSD so fast if it's the only storage drive in there. :-3

ps get the Dell u3011 or HP zr30w



I already have a 1080W power supply that I'll be using and yes, I have a 750GB WD Caviar Green for storage. As for the monitor, it's not worth $200-$300 for 160 more vertical lines over the 27 inch.



@Cortexian. aesthetics, mainly. I haven't read about the fins being that much better and I haven't seen any complaints about heat on the LP, so it's really personal preference. I don't intend to OC the RAM. As for the cooling, there are LOTS of reports about the pump making nasty noises, and the Intel one cools just as well without pump whine or grind. They are both made by Asetek at any rate, so it's not really going with a different brand. A d yeah, I think I'll stick with Crucial on the SSD.

[JackalStomper]

Took the 560ti for a test drive.

stock with 3.6Ghz CPU and 1600 ram:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/fx4100-560ti-1600ddr3/stock.jpg

Overclocked with 4.1Ghz CPU
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/fx4100-560ti-1600ddr3/OC.jpg

Will do a heaven benchmark when I finish downloading it.

So far I'm impressed with the performance I'm getting for the price I paid.

[ThePlague]

Getting my first big paycheck this upcoming week, and what better time to upgrade then now? My build right now is fine, but I really want to futureproof this.

CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103996
Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157280
CPU cooler:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835209049
Moar ram (already have a set of these):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211409

Adding that to an Antec 300, 6870 graphics card, a 750 watt corsair enthusiast power supply, a 64gb torqx SSD, and a 1tb western digital caviar blue.

[Zeph]

If your current rig is fine, put your money into savings and keep adding from future paychecks. By the time your rig is 'not fine', then you'll have plenty more money to upgrade.

[ThePlague]

Well thing is I wanted to buy these, and then put my older parts into another computer for my gf so we can both play.

[JackalStomper]

CPU:
Coming from a Phenom 925 the FX-4100 won't be a massive improvement, but will be able to handle more RAM at higher clocks. I would say go for 6 or 8 cores but given that I haven't run into any bottlenecks with the 4100 yet it seems like a solid deal.

Mobo:
Only has a 4 + 1 power phase, overclocking could be sketchy.
970 chipset, supports a single x16 slot, with crossfire at 8x. Absolutely no SLI, if you ever switch to nvidia you're shit out of luck. I've also heard the 990's have like %5 performance increase but that could just be bull.
Don't know much about asrock boards, never owned one.

Cooler:
Unless you plan on overclocking the SHIT out of that 4100 (think 4.6Ghz+) then the stock cooler should do just fine for you given some decent case airflow. Mine idles at 30C and under load barely breaks 45C. At 4.1 Ghz things get a little toasty, with high loads bringing it close to 50C.

RAM:
Nothing actually wrong here, just that having 4x2GB sticks makes the memory controller work harder than if you had just 2x4GB or 1x8GB. Should be nothing to worry about though, just commenting on it.

What truly is 'Futureproof' using any setup right now in terms of gaming is rather up in the air. The next 5 to 8 years of games will all be focused around whatever hardware the new xbox uses. And until the specs are released building any mid-range machine with the intent to stay is a gamble.

[ThePlague]

What do you mean by sketchy overclocking? Like I can't go very far with it before it fries the motherboard and every component attached? And i'm hopping from an amd phenom II x4 925 that's stock clock is 2.8ghz lol. To me it's moving up quite a bit.

With that CPU cooler I wanted something that I would be able to use for a long time. It's the one thing I want to have constantly cooled.

[Warsaw]

My new rig is pretty future proof, especially if the new Xbox is using an HD 6670 as rumored. Future-proof costs $3000 if you want to game at 2560x1440, though, and $1500 if you want to game at 1920x1080.

E: Ordered parts. Went with the Dell 27" over the Doublesight purely for the inputs; I can play Xbox on it and hook my speakers up directly to the monitor to get sound. This is the biggest and most powerful computer I've ever built relative to the contemporary market...

[ThePlague]

Can anyone tell me what CPU I can buy to put in this thing (http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c01701270)? It's the motherboard that is in my other computer, and right now it only has a single core processor. If you can find the CPU on newegg that'd be best, because I plan on buying that CPU cooler and more RAM I posted about before there.

[Cortexian]

An AM2+ CPU.

[Rainbow Dash]

Processor upgrade information


TDP: 95W
Motherboard supports the following processor upgrades:


NOTE:
Only socket AM2+ processors are supported with this motherboard.






AMD Phenom II Quad-Core
AMD Phenom II Triple-Core
AMD Phenom Quad-Core (A) 9xxx series (AM2+)
AMD Phenom Triple-Core (T) 8xxx series (AM2+)
AMD Athlon X4
AMD Athlon X3
AMD Athlon X2 (B) (AM2+)









idk why you'd need help with that lol

[ThePlague]

I said what I did because most of those processors are am3, does it matter?

[Cortexian]

Since they note it, yes it matters. It's a propritary board using a special nForce chipset so it has limitations.

[Warsaw]

Anything AM2 or AM2+ will work in that board. AM3 will fit, but A.) it might not work because the proprietary BIOS may not support it and B.) if it does work, you won't have full access to all of the AM3 features because that's what happens when you put an AM3 CPU into an AM2+ board.

As for coolers, any AMD cooler from Socket 939 or later will work. I think even Socket 754 coolers will fit, though don't quote me on that.

[ThePlague]

Will this CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103886) work with that board?

[Cortexian]

We already told you what we know based on the link you gave us... It might, at reduced capacity.

[JackalStomper]

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-kepler-gk104-geforce-gtx-670ti-arrives-march-2012-performs-gtx-580-hd7950/

I'm a little doubtful about the authenticity of these specs but if they turn out to be true the 600's are going to be monsters.

Greater than 7950 performance for $300? Sounds like a pipe dream.

[Warsaw]

AMD will drop prices to counter; the only reason they are so high right now is because there is little competition.

As for the GTX 680 being more powerful, that's to be expected. Nvidia and AMD seem to be on a tick-tock cycle, with each holding the performance crown for a short while before the other comes out with a new architecture. This is awesome, nothing but good news for us consumers.

[Cortexian]

Not really a "short while". AMD release -> nVidia release beats it -> Wait a year or two while nVidia remains supreme -> Repeat.

[Warsaw]

It's not a year or two.

9800 GTX < HD4870 < GTX 280 < HD 5870 < GTX 480 < HD6970 < GTX 580 < HD7950/HD7970.

Those cycles were pretty tick-tock. Don't look at it as Nvidia and ATI being in the same generation, they are really each their own generation by nature of each company striving to beat the other.

[Nero]

GTX 580 < HD7970.



Own both, and they are AWESOME. if you have the cash, get either one of these (7970 if you want more then 2 screens).

[Warsaw]

I own two 7970s. XD

I wanted to wait for Kepler, but I needed a new computer now. Oddly enough, I think I'm CPU-bound now. The i7-3820 isn't as top-end as the rest of my rig.

[Cortexian]

Did you ever post pics? I don't think I saw them.

Post pics.

[JackalStomper]

More crap on kepler. This time the 680. Supposedly priced at $550.
http://wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GTX-680-Specifications.jpg
http://wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GeForce-GTX-680-Kepler-Benchmarks.png
http://wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/nvidia_geforce_gtx_680_li01-635x391.jpg

I hate when anything is self proclaimed as 'Best <x>' but that's just me.

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-specifications-sheet-leaked-benchmark-slide-shows-gk104-40-faster-hd7970/

[Warsaw]

Inflated graph is inflated. Pay close attention to the numbers on the Y-axis.

I will believe it when I see it. I expect the GTX 680 to be better, but 40% just seems delusional. They probably tested it at 1080p, when any enthusiast knows that when you crank settings to 2560x1600, etc., Nvidia's lead rapidly diminishes. The GTX 680 is an enthusiast card.

Welp.

E: Will get pics up at some point. For now, here's this:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2u5ro5u.jpg

[Cortexian]

And for $550? For the top-end enthusiast card?

Unlikely.

[Warsaw]

Nvidia will probably charge between $600 and $650 for the GTX 680. AMD will probably counter by dropping the HD 7970 to between $450 and $500. After a few months, Nvidia will have to do the same and drop it down to $500-$550.

[Cortexian]

The newer 400/500/600 series cards all have a smaller form-factor than the older 200 series. My 470's are about half an inch shorter than my 285's were.

[Kalub]

Hey guise,

I'm going to be building a new 'pooter this spring to replace my old dinosaur of a machine.

I've already got a case, and a PSU.

Could you look at this wishlist and tell me if it's good, or if I'm derpin'. I have ~$500 +- 75 to spend.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=18774205

Thanks,

:haw:

e: Someone wanna build me a wishlist for the best bang for my buck? All I need are the components in the wishlist above. Or just inform me of improvements to my components in the list.

[Amit]

Everything looks fine, but you might want to reconsider that Motherboard. It wasn't made for use with Bulldozer (older chipset) even though it supposed supports it (AM3+). I would go with a board specifically designed for usage with the FX series. So you'll want a 970,990X, or 990FX chipset. The prices for those boards are comparable to that old 880G that you have on your list, but they better support for Bulldozer.

Here's the main difference between the 970, 990X, and 990FX chipsets (PCI-E X-Fire/SLI):

970 - x16, x4
990X - x16, x8, x4
990FX - x16, x16, x4

Since you're only using one GPU I'd suggest a 970 chipset board. I'd recommend these ones: GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128519) or ASUS M5A97 EVO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131757)

I can personally vouch for the goodness of the Gigabyte board since that is what I'm using now.

[JackalStomper]

gigabyte boards have apparently been having issues with the 900 series due to incorrect use of the turbo boost function, resulting in underclocked speeds for work loads. Or something like that.

I have an m5a99x evo and it works great though.

[Warsaw]

I changed a few things:

CPU - Phenom II X4 965 BE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727)

Motherboard - MSI 970A G-46 AM3+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130637)

RAM - G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3 1333, CAS 7. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231440)

That's all I changed. The Phenom II's are more reliable and more well-rounded than the FX in every category, and perform just as well. I compensated for the extra cost with that motherboard; it's capable of doing Crossfire in x8/x8 mode if you buy another HD 6870 down the road. The ASRock 970 Extreme4 is also worth looking at, as is the ASRock 990FX Extreme3. I swapped your RAM out because tighter timings are more important on an AMD system; if you're willing to pay $30 more on the RAM, you can get 8GB of DDR3 1600MHz at CAS 7.

As for GPU, I looked at Nvidia's offerings. The GTX 560 is $10-$15 more expensive; there is a slight performance superiority, but I don't know if it's worth it to you.

I would actually suggest going with a Core i3 because it will be all around faster without overclocking, but the CPU is $10 more and the motherboard will be around $40 more for the same features.

[Kalub]

Well, if you had to build a "gaming" desktop that you didn't plan on upgrading for at least 18 months, with ~$600 what would you gents piece together?

[JackalStomper]

My strongest advice at the moment would be to wait. I know its hard sometimes but with kepler, ivy bridge and 2nd gen bulldozer just around the corner it would be best to hang on and see what things look like once they're out. From there you can choose to go with the new tech, or stick with the old (and probably cheaper) stuff.
What's 'future proof' depends entirely on what the next generation of consoles will use. Because chances are most games will be built around those constraints. I doubt it will be anything intense though.

As for $600, if you are willing to reuse old components from your previous build then you can open up more room in your budget for some higher performance. If you don't plan on using your old rig there is no reason you can't reuse the case, HDD's, optical drives, and perhaps even the PSU.

[JackalStomper]

680 finally gets a real benchmark, and its proving superior to the 7970's in every way.
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-kepler-geforce-gtx-680-benchmarked-blows-hd-7970/

Still no official word on price though

[Kalub]

Yea, I plan on doing just that, I really just need these components:

mobo
processor
gpu
ram
hdd


I've got a case, power, and optical drive that I plan on reusing. However, how far is the new stuff around the corner? If it saves me some I'm willing to wait it out. It's been a good while since I've upgraded... :smith: Also, I'm not sure what's superior, but everyone I know is running a AMDcpu/AMDgpu setup, instead of something else. I don't plan on doing much on it either except playing the games noted above. (WoW, Skyrim, D3) My laptop can handle it, but it gets hot as hell, and even with a 3-fan cooler mat, overheats.

[JackalStomper]

geforce 600 releases are supposedly going to be staggered just as AMD's 7000's were. The earliest release is this month. Ivy bridge in april, 2nd gen bulldozer around july.

Of course '2nd gen' bulldozers lately has been looking more and more like a factory overclock with a higher TDP. Hardly worth waiting for that.

[Cortexian]

Hey, looks like two of those 680's might be a drop-in upgrade that will finally let me play BF3 on Ultra settings triple-monitor'd. Might not need to wait for the 690!

Will have to see how 2x680's perform in PCI-E 2.0 x8 slots.

[JackalStomper]

From benchmarks of various cards that I've seen the performance improvement in any dual gpu configuration between dual x16 and dual x8 is marginal at best.

[Cortexian]

Except the 600 series are going to be PCI-E 3.0 IIRC.

[Zeph]

The difference will still probably only be marginal. It's a 3.0 card, but first generation. You'd likely need three or four to saturate 8x2.0 slots.

[Warsaw]

Depends on the resolution you are playing at and how powerful your cards are. PCI-E 2.0 8x will bottleneck two 7970s at 2560x1440, which is the primary reason I went with X79 rather than Z68. AnandTech actually ran an article on this recently, if you're interested.

[Kalub]

Well gents, this is it. Can I get the Brosef Blessing?

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=18788525

[Donut]

i recall looking around a month or two ago and finding ram thats about 10 bucks cheaper than what you have, and also supports 1600mhz. other than that, looks good to me. im not exactly an expert though.

[Warsaw]

His RAM is that price because CAS 7. You can easily get cheaper if you settle for CAS9, but AMD systems are affected by timing more so than Intel systems.

[JackalStomper]

Phenoms can't run anything faster than 1333 anyway. And thats just single channel. Dual channel they are underclocked to 1066 mhz

And about that, Warsaw is correct that the phenoms are comparable to the FX-4100's, or perhaps its better to say the FX-4100's are comparable to the Phenoms. But think of what it costs you, because the performance gap is not large. The phenoms have a higher price, higher TDP, inferior memory controller, lower clock, smaller L2/L3 cache, and run hotter than the FX-4100's.

Passmark Phenom 965 (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+X4+965)

Passmark FX-4100 (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-4100+Quad-Core)

[Warsaw]

Single-threaded performance. I would take the Phenom every time. Of course, both can be overclocked to their physical limits, but the Phenom will do better when you don't stress the cores.

Actually, thinking about it, the FX-4100 is a virtual dual-core chip.

[Cortexian]

Depends on the resolution you are playing at and how powerful your cards are. PCI-E 2.0 8x will bottleneck two 7970s at 2560x1440, which is the primary reason I went with X79 rather than Z68. AnandTech actually ran an article on this recently, if you're interested.
5760x1200 - 6000x1200.

Welp~

How extreme is said bottleneck? Maybe when the 600 series cards come out it's time to ditch the triple-monitors for a Dell U3011.

[Warsaw]

Here you go. (http://www.anandtech.com/show/5458/the-radeon-hd-7970-reprise-pcie-bandwidth-overclocking-and-msaa) The graphs are all in PCI-E 3.0, but 3.0 x4 would be the same as 2.0 x8, and 3.0 x8 would be the same as 2.0 x16.

They conclude that PCI-E 2.0 x16 or PCI-E 3.0 x8 is necessary for something like the HD 7970. That means that it would also be desirable for the GTX 680.

I would say game on one, and use the others for work. But then again, you can slowly work at a triple U3011 setup as well.

[Cortexian]

I might have too keep an eye out for an Z68 board at the right price with similar specs to what I have now then.
What am I talking about, I keep forgetting that I'm planning to build a whole new rig in the next year or two.

[Warsaw]

If you plan on upgrading to Ivy Bridge and you don't already have a PCI-Express 3.0 capable Z68 board, you might as well just buy a Z77 board when Ivy comes out so you can take full advantage of all the new features. Personally, I'd jump on Sandy Bridge-E over Ivy, because there is just so much more that the X79 can offer over any Z68 or Z77 platform, and you don't have to wait for any of it. To boot, Ivy Bridge-E is a drop-in upgrade for LGA2011, so there's that to look forward to as well.

[Cortexian]

Well I've been thinking of building a new complete rig for a few reasons:
• My mid-tower is way to cramped for my liking.
• I want to start watercooling things, again more space for those components and tubing is a must.
• I want to retire this system to a HTPC since it has all the HDD's for storage (which makes it really heavy, which makes it hard to LAN with, etc).

That's why I'm probably going to spend some quality coin on a LAN-friendly full-tower, or at least as LAN-friendly as full-towers come. There may be modding involved so that it has some ultra-durable hooks that I can attach a shoulder harness to or something.

But yeah, I'm in need of a new PC to make everything in the house work like I want it to.

[Warsaw]

Lol, LAN-friendly full tower...my PC is 60 pounds, and I only have one hard drive. If you want LAN-friendly, don't buy a Fractal Design case because these things are heavy.

But yeah, definitely go X79. It has all the upgrade potential you'll need for likely the next 4 years, barring some major revolution in CPU architectures and software design. Also, it's really not any more expensive than Z68 at this point; there is literally no reason not to use X79. $250 will get you a great board on either platform, and the i7-3820 is about the same price as the i7 2600K.

[Cortexian]

Well I just upgraded to P67, so I won't do anything for the next year at least. This thing is still pretty much brand new, and I built it as a hold-over until I could build my "dream system". My mid-tower is approaching 70lbs now to give you an idea, and I've got a lot of shit out of the case for better airflow and cable management.

If I were to build my "dream system" right now I would def go X79 though, mostly just for some quad-channel memory and PCI-E 3.0. Gonna wait and see what Q4 2012 brings.

[Kalub]

Phenoms can't run anything faster than 1333 anyway. And thats just single channel. Dual channel they are underclocked to 1066 mhz

And about that, Warsaw is correct that the phenoms are comparable to the FX-4100's, or perhaps its better to say the FX-4100's are comparable to the Phenoms. But think of what it costs you, because the performance gap is not large. The phenoms have a higher price, higher TDP, inferior memory controller, lower clock, smaller L2/L3 cache, and run hotter than the FX-4100's.

Passmark Phenom 965 (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+X4+965)

Passmark FX-4100 (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-4100+Quad-Core)


Single-threaded performance. I would take the Phenom every time. Of course, both can be overclocked to their physical limits, but the Phenom will do better when you don't stress the cores.

Actually, thinking about it, the FX-4100 is a virtual dual-core chip.

Well, I'm trying get a processor/motherboard that can survive in my machine for at least two years without an upgrade. I think I might switch to an i5 in the build list, and bite the bullet to get more bang for the buck.

[Warsaw]

That would be ideal. While you're at it, you might want to consider either an HD 7850 or HD 7870. They just came out, but they offer 90% of the performance of a GTX580 (sometimes 100%) for half the price and the overclocking headroom on them is obscene; they can surpass an HD 7950 if you push them to 1.2GHz core and 1.375 GHz VRAM, which is easy to do because you don't even have to overvolt.

The thing to remember is that Ivy Bridge is supposed to come out in either April or May last I heard; buying a Sandy Bridge CPU right now is tantamount to upgrade suicide. I don't know when Kepler is to be released, but you won't be seeing any wallet-friendly parts until at least two months after the GTX 680's release anyways and that's too long.

E: And yeah, I didn't blow $3000 on a new rig just so I could have to upgrade it in two years. Though I can already see the CPU bottlenecking my graphics in BF3, I'll have to fix that when IVB-E comes out. It's the physics, I tell you. Anything AMD outside of an FX-8120 or 8150 will not stand up for two years; the 8120+ only work if you overclock them out the ass to reach parity with the i7 920, but then you need some hard-core power and cooling and you have only achieved the performance of almost two Intel generations ago.

EE: That's actually true for the Black Box Phenom II's as well. You'll need to OC them to keep up over time, because they also don't match even the i3 line at times, let alone the i5s and i7s. Phenoms are all around better than Bulldozers though unless most of what you do is heavily threaded. If that's the case, then definitely buy an FX chip.

[Kalub]

That's quite interesting. The more I think about it... the more I'll probably just wait for the IvyBridge to come out so prices may drop a little on the SandyBridge. I don't need the latest or greatest, I just like longevity of the components. I spoke to my NCO and he said to grab an AMD instead of the i5, but... yea... I'm thinking he's a bit behind the curve.

I'll keep shopping around. Thanks for the help.

[JackalStomper]

If you put a lot of emphasis on budget when speaking with him, then he pointed you in the right direction. AMD has a superior Price/Performance ratio on most of their CPU's.

As for ivy making sandy prices drop? Unlikely, Intel quite enjoys their inflated prices. Hell the bloomfield CPU's have steadily raised in price since their release 5 years ago.

[Cortexian]

If you put a lot of emphasis on budget when speaking with him, then he pointed you in the right direction. AMD has a superior Price/Performance ratio on most of their CPU's.

As for ivy making sandy prices drop? Unlikely, Intel quite enjoys their inflated prices. Hell the bloomfield CPU's have steadily raised in price since their release 5 years ago.
There's a difference between old hardware prices going up due to lack of supply and inflation, and relatively new hardware with plenty of stock being discounted.

The SB prices will go down when IB comes out, maybe not by a lot but they will.

[Warsaw]

If you put a lot of emphasis on budget when speaking with him, then he pointed you in the right direction. AMD has a superior Price/Performance ratio on most of their CPU's.

As for ivy making sandy prices drop? Unlikely, Intel quite enjoys their inflated prices. Hell the bloomfield CPU's have steadily raised in price since their release 5 years ago.

AMD is no longer the price/performance king. If you go to a website such as Tom's Hardware and look at all of the recommended CPUs for each price point, they are all Intel now. It used to be all AMD up to $200, so no, they aren't being biased.

[InnerGoat]

Tom's put up GTX 680 benchmarks a few days early and quickly removed them, but someone saved them all lolol

http://imgur.com/a/RCDqK#44

[JackalStomper]

gallery doesnt work for me

here they are if they dont for anyone else
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/11111/bf3.jpeg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/11111/cry2.jpeg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/11111/dirt.jpeg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/11111/sky.jpeg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/11111/avgpow.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/11111/avperf.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/11111/lod-temp.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3128383/Pictures/bench/11111/perf-wat.png

[Cortexian]

Dual-gpu cards from last gen are still boss I see..

[Warsaw]

Lol, yeah. A little bit of overclocking an HD 7970 (and I presume the GTX 680 as well) can net you performance parity with the GTX 590 though.

Precisely as I called it. The GTX 680 is better, but if you bought an HD 7970 you aren't missing much in performance. Not unless DiRT 3 is one of your most-played titles, which is funny because ATI cards have always sucked at DiRT 3 despite it being one of the AMD-backed titles.

[Cortexian]

Can't wait to see what some water-cooler GTX 690's will do.

1.5GHz Dual-CPU solution go!

[Warsaw]

I have a feeling that the GTX 690 is still a single-GPU card. That, or they'll save the fully powered Kepler GPU for GTX 780 the same way the GTX 580 is the fully powered Fermi.

[Amit]

Okay so it's Spring now and temperatures have skyrocketed. It's the first time I've used my PC in a climate higher than 20 degrees Celsius. At one time I thought that the stock cooler for my X4 955BE was good enough, but Jesus. I can't play anything without it heating up to above 50 degrees and the CPU fan runs at 4500+ RPM while playing Company of Heroes and 5200+ RPM while playing Civilization 5. That's pretty much full tilt. So obviously I need a new cooling solution.

I want to go with the CoolerMaster Hyper 212+ because it's cheap and damn effective. However, my case simply just does not have the space for it (the thing is massive). I was contemplating Corsair's Hydro line of closed-loop water coolers for CPUs. I'd be using the H40 version ($50 at local store). I have done the measurements and the radiator will fit in my current case. So maybe I should go with that.

Thoughts?

[Zeph]

I must admit, I'm glad to see that the 'early adopter' 680 benches were considerably off. 680s outperforming my 590 by 40% was quite frightening while amazing at the same time.

And yes, I too, have noticed the dramatic rise in temperature. My new cooling solution should be installed Sunday. I expect my temps to drop back down after that.


I have a feeling that the GTX 690 is still a single-GPU card. That, or they'll save the fully powered Kepler GPU for GTX 780 the same way the GTX 580 is the fully powered Fermi.
The 680 is the 104 chip right? 110 should be the 690 and 695 should be dual 110s.

[Cortexian]

Well my chip still stays well below 60 degrees at 4.4GHz. Had to lower from 4.6 because new BIOS for board changed something and I'm to lazy to figure out new stable settings for 4.6GHz.

[Warsaw]

@Timo: Precisely. But they may look at their own sales and performance and hold off on GK110 for the next generation of cards and make the GTX 690 a dual GK104 solution instead. If I were running a business, that's what I would do. You only need to be just good enough to take the performance crown from your competition. Since AMD won't trump a GTX 680 with a single GPU solution until the Radeon HD 8970 comes out, it doesn't make sense for Nvidia to release GK110 now. They would save money on R&D that way.

Amit, will this (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118223) fit your case? I have one on another computer in my house and it's pretty damn good. I would *not* recommend going with the H40; rubber tubing instead of FEP, loud pump, ineffective cooling. It's too much of a hassle for too little benefit. If you want water, either get the H80 (or better) or go custom. If Asetek's AMD-branded cooler was out, I would recommend that one because it is identical to their Intel one except for the mount (duh), and the latter has been pretty awesome for me thus far.

[Amit]

No, that cooler won't fit. The clip would hang over my first two RAM slots so I'd be forced to put my RAM in the the third and forth slots, effectively destroying my Dual Channel performance. The closed-loop water cooling isn't a hassle, but I've read reviews and it doesn't seem to cool a whole lot. I really wish that Zalman one would fit. So many people are having a great time with it.


@Timo:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/amit9821/ytdJY-1.png

[Warsaw]

My RAM slots aren't blocked...does your RAM have those obnoxious fins or are your RAM slots just really close?

E: Also, you know you can flip AMD mounts around to put the clip on the other side, right? Or do you have obnoxious metal heatsinks and/or capacitors in the way there, too?

[Amit]

I don't buy ridiculous looking RAM. No fins. RAM slots are too close I guess. I could go with a Corsair H60 since it's only $10 more.

[Warsaw]

See edit above.

The primary reason I stayed away from Corsair's cooling solutions is that all of them, from the H40 clear up to the H100, have pump grinding noises with enough prevalence to make me nervous. They say it's a simple matter of tipping your case for a few minutes to fix it, but the bottom line is that such an issue shouldn't exist. It's strange, because Corsair's water systems are also made by Asetek (as are Antec's), so I don't know what the difference between it and Intel's hardware is that would cause that. I didn't want to chance it, but that's just me. I feel like a good air cooler is the better way to go.

[Cortexian]

Except for the H80 and H100 I've worked with. They don't have pump issues and the only noise I hear from them is the fans.

You know there was a recall on a bunch of them for pump issues right? I don't think the new/repaired ones have the problem.

[Warsaw]

Reviews on Newegg imply otherwise.

[Amit]

Most reviews on Newegg are bullshit anyways. The 5/5 and 4/5 ones are usually legit, though. My friend uses one of the discontinued H50 coolers and doesn't have an issue with it. He's had it for about a year and a half now, too. If I hadn't seen it in operation myself I wouldn't have even considered looking into a liquid cooled solution. Custom liquid cooling is the best for cooling, but it's too damn expensive and too much work to maintain, and then you have to worry about leakages.

[Cortexian]

90% of the bad reviews I read online for computer parts go along the lines of:

"The manual said I could install this PCI-E card into my AGP slot, but it wouldn't fit unless I put it in the case backwards. So I had to rip the audio ports off my motherboard to make it fit, once I did that and turned on the computer didn't recognize the card and I couldn't see anything on the screen. What a shitty card 1/5 eggs."

[Warsaw]

Depends on the product and how the review reads. You can usually tell which ones are legit and which ones are bullshit if you know enough about computers yourself, which you seem to.

I've also never seen a review that was that ignorant. Then again, I only consider products that have 4 eggs to begin with.

The H60 is the update to the H50. The H80 is the update to the H70, but the H70 is still around.

[Cortexian]

Custom liquid cooling is the best for cooling, but it's too damn expensive and too much work to maintain, and then you have to worry about leakages.
Expensive? Yes, you'll be spending about 1/3 to 1/2 what you spend on your computer just for quality water-cooling components.

Hard to maintain? Not really, if you setup a drain-link in your loop near the bottom of the loop and run it down to the base of your computer you can just straddle your PC over a sink and let the plug out/release the valve to drain your loop. Fill it a couple times to clean the gunk out of it and you're good to go.

Leakages aren't a problem if you use quality compression fittings.

[Amit]

90% of the bad reviews I read online for computer parts go along the lines of:

"The manual said I could install this PCI-E card into my AGP slot, but it wouldn't fit unless I put it in the case backwards. So I had to rip the audio ports off my motherboard to make it fit, once I did that and turned on the computer didn't recognize the card and I couldn't see anything on the screen. What a shitty card 1/5 eggs."

You have to stop doing that. The memories alone are enough to kill me with laughter.

[Warsaw]

:saggy:

[JackalStomper]

Rule of thumb for newegg reviews: Don't read newegg reviews.

Anything useful you can find from them you can also find from 5 seconds of searching on google.

[Zeph]

Well, the newegg reviews are often useful. Sort from lowest to highest and go through all the 1 of 5 egg reviews. Ignore all the things like people sticking a PCIe card into an AGP slot because of manual and look for things like people having the same kind of failure. When the manufacturer (well, major companies such as WD, EVGA, etc.) doesn't step in to make a comment on those reviews, it's generally a hardware fault they try to sweep under the rug.

Rule of thumb for google reviews: dont read google reviews.

[Cortexian]

Except all the Google reviews I read come in the form of well thought out forum longposts on respected websites like Overclock.net and HardOCP. Much better then on Newegg since you get a bunch of replies from people countering the negative/positive comments the reviewer made.

Significantly better way to research a product than Newegg reviews. But yeah, reading the 1/5 egg reviews and looking for similarity sometimes helps. Most of the time it's still retards using the included drivers/firmware/BIOS and not the latest ones available from the website.

[JackalStomper]

When the manufacturer (well, major companies such as WD, EVGA, etc.) doesn't step in to make a comment on those reviews, it's generally a hardware fault they try to sweep under the rug.

Or because they aren't going to bother replying to 'DOA' commends when they can guess it was due to the user mishandling the shit during installation then blaming shipping/newegg/manufacturer and returning it claiming it's faulty.

There's a reason newegg refuses to accept any CPU returns due to damaged pins.


look for things like people having the same kind of failure
The 'expert reviews' for my video card had a number of complaints about driver restarts/crashes, some of them actually written well and seemingly helpful. Most of course blamed on the hardware, though some said it was adobe flash? Given my level of respect for newegg reviews I completely ignored them and got it anyway.

It started crashing/driver restarts, ok so they were right about one thing, I was surprised. But after seeing it for myself it showed all the signs of an unstable overclock. (this card is factory OC'd) what do you know when I bumped the stuff down to reference levels it runs like a charm. After looking it turns out the reference clocked version of my card has no such negative reviews despite identical hardware.

There were also complaints about heat levels, I can't say much about their systems but either they have poor airflow or live in volcano's. Right now its idling at 32C. Loads don't go over 45C.

[JackalStomper]

Also yeah 680 on newegg for $500 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600315498&IsNodeId=1&name=GeForce%20GTX%20600%20series

E: I literally just watched all these cards go from available to out of stock in 5 minutes, holy crap.

[Cortexian]

For $500 I'm not surprised. This is the cheapest the top-end single card in a tier has been for a LONG time.

If I had the cash I would have jumped on two.

[Warsaw]

It's cheaper than HD 7970s were at launch, holy balls. If only I could have waited another three months. Oh well, you can't win them all.

E: After reading the AnandTech review, it appears to me that while a stock GTX 680 performs better (in games I don't play, mind you), the HD7970 has more pent-up potential. It looks as if the GTX 680 is clocked up and that's what's making it run faster. The amount of overclocking headroom on Tahiti is already known to be rather obscene. I'd be interested in seeing head-to-head overclocked match between the 680 and the 7970.

Also, if you do a lot of compute stuff, stay away from the GTX 680. It blows at compute tasks.

[Cortexian]

Still does CUDA tasks better than AMD cards since AMD cards can't do CUDA at all! :downs:

[Warsaw]

OpenCL.

[Cortexian]

cuda_supported_cards.txt
GeForce GTX 285
GeForce GTX 470
GeForce GTX 570
GeForce GTX 580
Quadro CX
Quadro FX 3700M
Quadro FX 3800
Quadro FX 3800M
Quadro FX 4800
Quadro FX 5800
Quadro 2000
Quadro 2000D
Quadro 2000M
Quadro 3000M
Quadro 4000
Quadro 4000M
Quadro 5000
Quadro 5000M
Quadro 5010M
Quadro 6000

Sorry about your lack of Adobe awesomeness support.
(you can actually just edit this list if your GPU isn't on it and it's newer than the 285)

[Amit]

LOL huge card:

http://static.techspot.com/images2/news/bigimage/2012-03-22-image-1.jpg

[Warsaw]

cuda_supported_cards.txt
GeForce GTX 285
GeForce GTX 470
GeForce GTX 570
GeForce GTX 580
Quadro CX
Quadro FX 3700M
Quadro FX 3800
Quadro FX 3800M
Quadro FX 4800
Quadro FX 5800
Quadro 2000
Quadro 2000D
Quadro 2000M
Quadro 3000M
Quadro 4000
Quadro 4000M
Quadro 5000
Quadro 5000M
Quadro 5010M
Quadro 6000

Sorry about your lack of Adobe awesomeness support.
(you can actually just edit this list if your GPU isn't on it and it's newer than the 285)

I use GIMP bro. Adobe can go suck a nut with their bloatware.

[Cortexian]

Whoa whoa I didn't know GIMP did video and effects editing?!!

(Because it doesn't)

[Amit]

I can't wait any longer. My CPU temps hit 65 just by watching a single youtube vid with no other tabs open in Chrome. I trust Hardware Canucks' review (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/43627-corsair-h60-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review-10.html), so I'm going to go with the Corsair H60.

[Warsaw]

Whoa whoa I didn't know GIMP did video and effects editing?!!

(Because it doesn't)

But you're talking to me like I need CUDA, and since I don't do video and effects editing, it's a wasted Nvidia/Adobe feelgood effort.

[Cortexian]

My fanboyism > your arguements.

[Warsaw]

Overclocked results. (http://www.sweclockers.com/recension/15196-geforce-gtx-680-kepler-samt-sli/20#pagehead)

They trade blows. Fuck yeah, head-to-head competition is awesome. Also, it's looking highly unlikely that we'll see GK110 before the HD 8970...

[Cortexian]

Those results look more like immature drivers on the 680's part. That's usually the case when one card beats out another in some tests but then loses by a significant amount in others (like that Metro 2033 test).

[Warsaw]

HD7970 has immature drivers, too. The GTX 680 performs poorly in Metro 2033 and Crysis anyways, a result of the architecture this time around. At stock clocks, it still lost to the HD7970.

[Amit]

We could see cheaper SSD's soon: http://www.techspot.com/news/47829-marvell-announces-low-cost-high-performance-sata-controller-for-ssds.html

(http://www.techspot.com/news/47829-marvell-announces-low-cost-high-performance-sata-controller-for-ssds.html)I saw a statement that they will have increased performance, power efficiency, and lower costs, but will they be reliable?

[Cortexian]

Well the Marvel controllers have been reliable in the past, it's what the Crucial M4's use.

The shitty ones are the Sandforce controllers, and I've heard that they've almost fixed all the issues via firmware now.

[JackalStomper]

http://wccftech.com/ek-announces-worlds-water-block-nvidia-gtx-680/

Water cooling for 680's.

quad anyone? For those of you that freak out if you frame rate drops below 200 fps.

[Cortexian]

quad anyone?
You cannot SLI more than 3 cards except with those GTX 580 Classified Ultra-Awesome Super Duper Overpriced Edition cards from EVGA and a special motherboard. Unless they changed something and I'm just old-school.

Also, I plan to 3-way SLI cards like the 680 in my next build so hush!

One thing I noticed about that, is that since the power-connectors are stacked you're still forced into the double-spacing card width. Same goes for the stacked DVI connectors. Looks like I'll be waiting on a third-party option for single-stacking goodness if I use 680's for water-cooling tri-SLI in the future.

[Tnnaas]

For those of you that freak out if you frame rate drops below 200 fps.
Wait... what? They go below​ that?

[Cortexian]

https://secure.newegg.ca/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=16668891

Am I missing anything?? Oh right the water-cooling:
• Quad radiator: http://dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=154_69&products_id=1178
(Would go in the bottom of the TJ11 case)
• Triple radiator: http://dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=154_69&products_id=1012
(Would be custom-mounted to the back of the TJ11 case since the back of the case isn't used)
• Pump/Res combo: http://dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=157_166&products_id=1179
• CPU block: http://dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=102_199&products_id=1910
• Fittings: Lots and of varying sizes/shapes/angles, assume at least $200.
• Fans: http://dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=87_89&products_id=1148
(Probably at least 14 of these for the radiators alone, maybe 12 depending on constrains with the PSU and quad rad in bottom of case)

Well, there's my updated build for future planning. As always it will be updated with improved parts and such as I see fit. Est cost: $7,233 w/o shipping/tax.

LOL

[Warsaw]

You cannot SLI more than 3 cards except with those GTX 580 Classified Ultra-Awesome Super Duper Overpriced Edition cards from EVGA and a special motherboard. Unless they changed something and I'm just old-school.

Also, I plan to 3-way SLI cards like the 680 in my next build so hush!

One thing I noticed about that, is that since the power-connectors are stacked you're still forced into the double-spacing card width. Same goes for the stacked DVI connectors. Looks like I'll be waiting on a third-party option for single-stacking goodness if I use 680's for water-cooling tri-SLI in the future.

Somebody is trying to one-up my rig. :realsmug:

[Cortexian]

Somebody is trying to one-up my rig. :realsmug:
I've been planing a new build for a few years though.

I just never have the cash on hand because shit keeps coming up and my existing rigs keep breaking and forcing me to spend half my savings for a new rig in repairs.

[Warsaw]

So, I take it you won't be buying refurb cards this time, right?

[Cortexian]

I never "bought" refurb cards.

My GTX 285's died, I got replacements, the replacements died, I got GTX 470 replacements.

I would never buy refurb cards.