America: Land of the Fre-Oh wait

[Rentafence]

" A divided U.S. Supreme Court (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=1000L%3AUS) gave prosecutors more ability to use evidence obtained in violation of the Constitution, ruling against a man who was arrested and searched only because of a police clerical error.
The justices, voting 5-4 along ideological lines, upheld Bennie Dean Herring’s conviction for illegal possession of the methamphetamine and pistol he was carrying when he was arrested in 2004 in Coffee County, Alabama."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aIpLc56jQZfE&refer=us

[Bodzilla]

>_>

[Random]

He still had meth and an illegally possessed pistol ...

Meth is serious shit

[jngrow]

Yeah, I'm free from meth heads with pistols. Stop.

[Malloy]

"You just hate us coz you cant handle our freedom!"

-dumb hick, 2004
Ivory Tower, Oddball, XBL

[Rentafence]

He still had meth and an illegally possessed pistol ...

Meth is serious shit

That's not the point.

[Limited]

That's not the point.
Well it sorta is. It sucks that he was searched wrongfully. But he did have a pistol and meth. In my eyes, if they search him and find meth and pistol, then hes broken the law and that evidence should stand.

If they searched him wrongfully and found nothing, he should sue their asses.

[ICEE]

Well it sorta is. It sucks that he was searched wrongfully. But he did have a pistol and meth. In my eyes, if they search him and find meth and pistol, then hes broken the law and that evidence should stand.

If they searched him wrongfully and found nothing, he should sue their asses.

This. I think that his possession of meth and a pistol, both of which can kill a person, far outweigh illegal search charges. I mean, why would someone with meth carry a pistol if they weren't prepared to kill to defend sed meth?

[Rentafence]

What the guy had isn't the issue here. The issue is the courts ruling. It completely goes against the Constitution. In a worst case scenario, what would stop a cop from planting evidence against someone then doing an illegal search, effectively framing them for something they didn't do? More realistically though, it sets a precedent. What stops them from doing this to amendments on the rest of the Constitution?

[Bodzilla]

Well it sorta is. It sucks that he was searched wrongfully. But he did have a pistol and meth. In my eyes, if they search him and find meth and pistol, then hes broken the law and that evidence should stand.

If they searched him wrongfully and found nothing, he should sue their asses.
Be careful limited, what your proposing is an extremely slippery slope.

[Malloy]

too be fair, this is lolworthy.

My opinion abides with Limited's and that yes he should be persecuted but... he should also get to sue so that he gets compensation out of years lost in jail. As in the circumstances he would never of been caught it was'nt for the meddling kids.

cops*

[DarkHalo003]

But everyone has to have a fair trial, I mean, look at the guy who did the court house shootings: he has witnesses of what he did and it was seen all of the court house. There undeniable evidence that he did it, yet everyone is wasting their time and money with the case. It's ridiculous. There definitely needs to be something that pertains to the outweighing of an illegal search because of dangerous items found. If someone had a rocket launcher in their car and the police didn't have a search warrant, do you think it should matter? Probably not.

[Bodzilla]

protip, they confiscate the rocket launcher, but he gets off without a persession Charge.

What your ultimately suggesting Dark will be the death of our freedoms because more and more will be introduced under the guise of being necessary and for the good of humanity, only to be abused and mishandled.

Dont give these fucks more power then they have, cause i can dam well bet they'll fucking abuse it.

my little brother got pulled over yesterday because he rode 50m's to the shops without a helmet on his pushbike.
they swerved in front of him and put the hand brake on nearly taking him out in the process.
3 undercover cops not in uniform got out 1 with a baton in hand from an unmarked car and started threatening and mouthing him trying to provoke him into an attack or an argument so they could beat the shit out of him.
they asked how old he was
"i'm 18 today, it's my birthday" and they replied "excellent, old enough to have a fine" and started goating and laughing at him again.

they then wrote out a $100 fine with a note attached saying "happy birthday from the queensland police"

and you want to give more of these fucks greater powers?
this is not an isolated incident.
3 undercover cops got out of an unmarked car in casual clothes.

you cannot throw your libertys and rights away to these people. IT WILL BE ABUSED.

[ultama121]

Constitution violations? In my U.S.?! Oh yeah that has happened before. :downs:

Still though. :smith:

[jngrow]

protip, they confiscate the rocket launcher, but he gets off without a persession Charge.

What your ultimately suggesting Dark will be the death of our freedoms because more and more will be introduced under the guise of being necessary and for the good of humanity, only to be abused and mishandled.

Dont give these fucks more power then they have, cause i can dam well bet they'll fucking abuse it.

my little brother got pulled over yesterday because he rode 50m's to the shops without a helmet on his pushbike.
they swerved in front of him and put the hand brake on nearly taking him out in the process.
3 undercover cops not in uniform got out 1 with a baton in hand from an unmarked car and started threatening and mouthing him trying to provoke him into an attack or an argument so they could beat the shit out of him.
they asked how old he was
"i'm 18 today, it's my birthday" and they replied "excellent, old enough to have a fine" and started goating and laughing at him again.

they then wrote out a $100 fine with a note attached saying "happy birthday from the queensland police"

and you want to give more of these fucks greater powers?
this is not an isolated incident.
3 undercover cops got out of an unmarked car in casual clothes.

you cannot throw your libertys and rights away to these people. IT WILL BE ABUSED.
Sorry dude, that sounds horrible, but shit like that doesn't happen the majority of the time (at least where I live).

We actually discussed this in my Government class the other week. Well, I don't know how many of you actually read the full story, (which is not that clear in the article) but the cops who searched his car thought they had a warrant on him. The fishy part is they checked with other nearby counties to see if he had a warrant (he's made a bit of a name for himself locally), which could be considered unfair. But basically after they got the guy, a while later the county they called was like "shit nvm there wasn't a warrant". This just isn't the same as busting in someone's place and taking shit. People shouldn't go free on stupid technicalities like this one. There are times when saying "no, fuck you, you cheated" are reasonable, and other times when it's not.

"OMFG UR CALLING ILLEGAL OBTAINING OF EVIDENCE A TECHNICALITY??!?!"

No, I'm just saying life isn't black or white, sometimes things aren't worth as much in one place as they would be another.

[Bodzilla]

Sorry dude, that sounds horrible, but shit like that doesn't happen the majority of the time (at least where I live).

We actually discussed this in my Government class the other week. Well, I don't know how many of you actually read the full story, (which is not that clear in the article) but the cops who searched his car thought they had a warrant on him. The fishy part is they checked with other nearby counties to see if he had a warrant (he's made a bit of a name for himself locally), which could be considered unfair. But basically after they got the guy, a while later the county they called was like "shit nvm there wasn't a warrant". This just isn't the same as busting in someone's place and taking shit. People shouldn't go free on stupid technicalities like this one. There are times when saying "no, fuck you, you cheated" are reasonable, and other times when it's not.

"OMFG UR CALLING ILLEGAL OBTAINING OF EVIDENCE A TECHNICALITY??!?!"

No, I'm just saying life isn't black or white, sometimes things aren't worth as much in one place as they would be another.
If it was a technicallity like that because they Thought they had a warrent, i'd forgive the cops actions, but they still broke the rules and he must go free.

you cant negotiate this way, because they'll win every time.

[paladin]

Good thing I live in the USE

[jngrow]

If it was a technicallity like that because they Thought they had a warrent, i'd forgive the cops actions, but they still broke the rules and he must go free.

you cant negotiate this way, because they'll win every time.

I see where you are coming from. But for me, personally, the type of guy that this was, as a judge, (not in Supreme Court, of course, as whatever you say applies to everything), would allow the evidence in court. Yes, everyone is equal under the law, but fuck. It's what he could do with a couple more days on the streets is why the situation is so fucked up. If it wasn't such a huge amount of criminal shit he had going on, I wouldn't feel so strongly about it.

But hey, it was a 5-4 ruling, if this came up again it could be easily overturned, depending on the situation.

[Bodzilla]

but the creation of Grey areas in black and white legislation inevitably leads to corruption and exploitation.

no exceptions.

the only way to stop it is to halt the ways they can abuse the system before they are implemented.

[LinkandKvel]

I do agree with bod though. There are MANY many cops who are cops just to have the authority. People nowadays are crooked. I'm also pretty sure something like this has happened before. What they probably will do is push the law a little more and more and more till one side (law) has too MUCH power and the other side (the people) has nowhere near enough. I understand where rentafence is coming from also. If this is the case they COULD easily frame an individual. Don't forget the fact that there's STILL racism in america so if shit like this happens without consequences there will be more minorities in american jails than there already are now. I dislike most cops cause of the simple fact think they are hot shit and ALREADY abuse their power. Not saying ALL cops are bad but there are far too many bad ones to grant any more slip-ups like this. Humans are tainted which is why we need moar robo-cops.

[CN3089]

Man, what happened to you Anthony Kennedy? You used to be cool.

[DarkHalo003]

protip, they confiscate the rocket launcher, but he gets off without a persession Charge.

What your ultimately suggesting Dark will be the death of our freedoms because more and more will be introduced under the guise of being necessary and for the good of humanity, only to be abused and mishandled.

Dont give these fucks more power then they have, cause i can dam well bet they'll fucking abuse it.

my little brother got pulled over yesterday because he rode 50m's to the shops without a helmet on his pushbike.
they swerved in front of him and put the hand brake on nearly taking him out in the process.
3 undercover cops not in uniform got out 1 with a baton in hand from an unmarked car and started threatening and mouthing him trying to provoke him into an attack or an argument so they could beat the shit out of him.
they asked how old he was
"i'm 18 today, it's my birthday" and they replied "excellent, old enough to have a fine" and started goating and laughing at him again.

they then wrote out a $100 fine with a note attached saying "happy birthday from the queensland police"

and you want to give more of these fucks greater powers?
this is not an isolated incident.
3 undercover cops got out of an unmarked car in casual clothes.

you cannot throw your libertys and rights away to these people. IT WILL BE ABUSED.
What the fuck? I never said give them more power. I'm saying that if it is so fucking obvious that the person is lethal or possesses illegally dangerous items that it shouldn't matter if the cop has a warrant or not.

Sorry that that happened. I'm pretty sure that was an illegal move on their own. You should challenge it.

Don't judge/troll me from a post you misinterpreted. :v:

[Bodzilla]

What the fuck? I never said give them more power. I'm saying that if it is so fucking obvious that the person is lethal or possesses illegally dangerous items that it shouldn't matter if the cop has a warrant or not.

Sorry that that happened. I'm pretty sure that was an illegal move on their own. You should challenge it.

Don't judge/troll me from a post you misinterpreted. :v:
you fool!

Making an illegal search legal because of evidence obtained is greater power! :v:

[MastaCheefa]

This thread is just disturbing. :fail: I think Bod is the only one that gets it.

[jngrow]

I do agree with bod though. There are MANY many cops who are cops just to have the authority. People nowadays are crooked. I'm also pretty sure something like this has happened before. What they probably will do is push the law a little more and more and more till one side (law) has too MUCH power and the other side (the people) has nowhere near enough. I understand where rentafence is coming from also. If this is the case they COULD easily frame an individual. Don't forget the fact that there's STILL racism in america so if shit like this happens without consequences there will be more minorities in american jails than there already are now. I dislike most cops cause of the simple fact think they are hot shit and ALREADY abuse their power. Not saying ALL cops are bad but there are far too many bad ones to grant any more slip-ups like this. Humans are tainted which is why we need moar robo-cops.

It's actually a part of human nature, the whole not liking cops/cops being dicks thing. First of all, give someone power, they will abuse it on varying levels (from almost not at all to completely abusing it, but they always will to some degree). Secondly, due to everyone's rightful, but at the same time too strong impression of cops, the cops begin to feel alienated from and frustrated with a community. How many times do people say "Hey, watch what you say around him, he's a cop" or act differently around them, even when they are off duty? This makes them more annoyed and pissed off, acting more hostile (added with the fact that it takes a lot of finesse to establish one's authority without being a total dick, which cops DO need to do), making people hate them more, vicious cycle.

And people nowadays are just as crooked as they have always been, do you know how much worse shit was with cops in the past? How much more common corruption was? Thanks to a generally more educated public extreme, widespread corruption isn't as common. It's not people these days, it's just people.

E: Not quite Cheefa, I think a lot of people are just like "Fuck! I would hate if that guy went free in my town!" in the back of their heads, causing them not to see what the real topic is. But realistically, they will probably get him eventually, and it's a sacrifice worth making.

[LinkandKvel]

Yea I'm not sure WHY I said nowadays. It's not like people in general has gotten any better.

[DarkHalo003]

you fool!

Making an illegal search legal because of evidence obtained is greater power! :v:
You fool!

Carrying a rocket launcher in your car is greatly illegal dangerous power. >_<

[LinkandKvel]

ISecondly, due to everyone's rightful, but at the same time too strong impression of cops, the cops begin to feel alienated from and frustrated with a community. How many times do people say "Hey, watch what you say around him, he's a cop" or act differently around them, even when they are off duty? I'm pretty sure some cops actually like that. Actually, many cops may like it.


You fool!

Carrying a rocket launcher in your car is greatly illegal dangerous power. >_<Your using extremes. Of course it'd be a different case then. If you willingly look for evidence to obtain illegally, then that is where it should be halted. If a cop looks over and sees a rocket launcher it is a quite...no...VERY different case then.

[Bodzilla]

You fool!

Carrying a rocket launcher in your car is greatly illegal dangerous power. >_<
you bigger fool!

the Rocket launcher would be confiscated but it cannont be used as evidence because in order to obtain it THEY BROKE THE FUCKING LAW THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO UPHOLD.

you cant fucking quote the rule book when it's convenient and ignore it when it's not because that inevitably leads to exploitation, corruption and a persons personal opinion influencing the rule of law.

god fucking dammit Dark are you really that fucking stupid.
Blind, ignorant fucking fools.

[jngrow]

I'm pretty sure some cops actually like that. Actually, many cops may like it.



Uh, dude, I don't think there are a lot of people who enjoy being treated like some guy that can't be trusted. The people usually won't treat him/her with more respect in normal conversation, and they won't cower in fear, they will just tread lightly over what they say, and generally not quite be themselves. That would suck, I don't know anyone who would like not being able to have a normal conversation.


If a cop looks over and sees a rocket launcher it is a quite...no...VERY different case then.

It's part of the law that if evidence is in plain sight it's totally useable etc.

[DarkHalo003]

Uh, dude, I don't think there are a lot of people who enjoy being treated like some guy that can't be trusted. The people usually won't treat him/her with more respect in normal conversation, and they won't cower in fear, they will just tread lightly over what they say, and generally not quite be themselves. That would suck, I don't know anyone who would like not being able to have a normal conversation.
Some pitcher's son recently got shot by a cop because the cop was racial profiling the kid. The kid was darker than most people in the neighborhood and the cop apparently thought the kid stole an escalade. Then, the parents came outside and told the parents to step up against the wall. Like, WTF? The cop was discharged from duty thankfully.


you bigger fool!

the Rocket launcher would be confiscated but it cannont be used as evidence because in order to obtain it THEY BROKE THE FUCKING LAW THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO UPHOLD.

you cant fucking quote the rule book when it's convenient and ignore it when it's not because that inevitably leads to exploitation, corruption and a persons personal opinion influencing the rule of law.

god fucking dammit Dark are you really that fucking stupid.
Blind, ignorant fucking fools.
YOU'RE THE BIGGEST FOOL FOOL!

I agree with Jngrow. My point is, if it's so freaking obvious the person will go nuts with the dangerous item in his car, then the cop has the full right to detain the person till a trial.

About the code book: Tough luck dude, that happens daily.

[Bodzilla]

The road to fascism, racism, oppression, dictatorship and communism is paved by people like you.

[LinkandKvel]

I agree with Jngrow. My point is, if it's so freaking obvious the person will go nuts with the dangerous item in his car, then the cop has the full right to detain the person till a trial. .

No. Get a fucking warrant before you just go search my shit anyway. This is just like the cops who take advantage of the ignorant people and tries to search with the absense of a warrant.

[DarkHalo003]

The road to fascism, racism, oppression, dictatorship and communism is paved by people like you.
What the fuck? You may want to check your rebel ass before you start blaring like that asshole. If that's how you think I am, then it's people like you who start riots and hurt people because you disagree with them. I don't care if you think you're on top of the world, but that gives you no right to carry illegal items with you. Jngrow said everything I implied well enough. Look at that post.

If you aren't American, you really shouldn't be dishing out shit on America. Your country is probably just as fucked up as ours is with some stuff. But Canada is alright.

[Rentafence]

What the fuck? You may want to check your rebel ass before you start blaring like that asshole. If that's how you think I am, then it's people like you who start riots and hurt people because you disagree with them. I don't care if you think you're on top of the world, but that gives you no right to carry illegal items with you. Jngrow said everything I implied well enough. Look at that post.

If you aren't American, you really shouldn't be dishing out shit on America. Your country is probably just as fucked up as ours is with some stuff. But Canada is alright.

I agree with everything Bod has said. I am American. You should not be American. Obviously you don't understand why we have (or used to have) limits on the power police and government has.

[LinkandKvel]

I agree with everything Bod has said. I am American. You should not be American. Obviously you don't understand why we have (or used to have) limits on the power police and government has.

This.

[DarkHalo003]

I agree with everything Bod has said. I am American. You should not be American. Obviously you don't understand why we have (or used to have) limits on the power police and government has.
No, I do. I'm tired of explaining it. I[m tired of ranting about this. You have freedom, but don't abuse it by carrying ILLEGAL items with you. But I'm sure y'all could care less. Half of you don't even live in America and the other half is at a point to where you should be able to do anything through the law. I'm through with giving my case. I'm not taking the side of the officers, I'm taking the side of safety and well being of a community. Bye.

You shouldn't be carrying illegal items with you to begin with. There are laws that permit officers to confiscate illegal items from your car if visible.

[LinkandKvel]

No, I do. I'm tired of explaining it. Im tired of ranting about this. You have freedom, but don't abuse it by carrying ILLEGAL items with you.umm does anyone else see the irony? The cops obtained it through ILLEGAL means, so they abused their freedom also. Yea try again.

[blind]

They shouldn't be able to admit anything as evidence unless it was lawfully obtained. If they start admitting illegally gained evidence, then there's nothing to stop police from arbitrarily searching every single person they pass.

[Sel]

They shouldn't be able to admit anything as evidence unless it was lawfully obtained. If they start admitting illegally gained evidence, then there's nothing to stop police from arbitrarily searching every single person they pass.

That's how it's supposed to work. In fact most cases have been thrown out of court because the only way the defendant could be proven guilty is with illegally obtained evidence.

However there were some incredibly retarded cases that let people off using this as a reason. One that comes to mind is one my law teacher told our class about last year.

Kid goes missing, with description of what he was wearing, including shoes (Which was what the police uncovered). Few weeks later cops see a van and something about it being parked illegally or something, anyway they end up running a search on the license plate and find out that the owners drivers license was revoked. Anyway they end up going to the car, and theres two guys inside, anyway they end up searching the car, they find drugs, and a bloodstained shoe. They end up arresting the people for the drugs, and then later run tests on the shoe and find out that it belongs to the kid who was kidnapped a few weeks before.

In court the case gets thrown out because the evidence was illegally obtained, as there was an administrative error on the drivers licence, it wasn't actually revoked, so they ended up having no reason to search the car.

Pretty much, this constitutional right could use some amending but it should not be entirely revoked.

[kenney001]

YOU'RE THE BIGGEST FOOL FOOL!

I agree with Jngrow. My point is, if it's so freaking obvious the person will go nuts with the dangerous item in his car, then the cop has the full right to detain the person till a trial.

About the code book: Tough luck dude, that happens daily.

Who is to decide what is obvious and dangerous? Eventually they will be able to search where-ever the hell they want based on this logic. As much as I would like to arrest them and charge him, some sacrifices have to be made to maintain our individual liberties. Although unfair in this single instance, the decision will create fairness in a greater sense.

The contraband should be confiscated, but as much as it pains me to say, the man SHOULD walk free. Even though I really really really wish he didn't.

[Bodzilla]

You'll never understand Darkhalo but with your ignorant blind faith you and everyone else like you will sell out the very freedoms and privileges your country men died to protect and create.
and you'll do it "for the good of the community" and you'll lead us into another dark age of suppression.

Just shut the fuck up on any political issues you have because you've proven time and time again you dont have the intelligence to make informed decisions on the lives of yourself and everyone around you.

Your a fucking danger to my freedom and the very privileges your country was founded on.

and dont you dare fucking drag me down with your inane delusions of grander.

[SnaFuBAR]

You'll never understand Darkhalo but with your ignorant blind faith you and everyone else like you will sell out the very freedoms and privileges your country men died to protect and create.
and you'll do it "for the good of the community" and you'll lead us into another dark age of suppression.

Just shut the fuck up on any political issues you have because you've proven time and time again you dont have the intelligence to make informed decisions on the lives of yourself and everyone around you.

Your a fucking danger to my freedom and the very privileges your country was founded on.

and dont you dare fucking drag me down with your inane delusions of grander.
THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

I bet he supports the patriot act too.

[Mr Buckshot]

"Freedom." That word just has the misfortune of being extremely vague.

[SnaFuBAR]

It's not vague.

[kenney001]

No its not vague, its just a completely utopian idea. Human Nature is flawed, and thus we cannot ever be granted freedom and trusted not to abuse it.

[Mr Buckshot]

No its not vague, its just a completely utopian idea. Human Nature is flawed, and thus we cannot ever be granted freedom and trusted not to abuse it.

Thanks, that was actually what I meant, my English isn't great anyway.

As long as we're human we can never be truly "free." I mean you can interpret freedom on a very broad level, in which case even America can be said to be far from a free country. Still this thing about searches is quite messed up as it's an abuse of power.

[SnaFuBAR]

No its not vague, its just a completely utopian idea. Human Nature is flawed, and thus we cannot ever be granted freedom and trusted not to abuse it.
It's not that, either.

Investigate. Think. Give it honest curiosity rather than dismissive, dimwitted qualifiers. Don't take my word for what freedom is, because you'll just brush it off. If you don't know what "freedom" is, you can't appreciate it.

[Malloy]

ha ha ha, freedom is a false concept. The fact we all have to pay for a TV license means we are not free. End of.

[SnaFuBAR]

nice fakepost.