Inauguration Day

[SnaFuBAR]

The inauguration of Obama, 44th president, 1st African American to the Presidency, Is happening only hours from now. This is a great day.

[MetKiller Joe]

*sips coffee*

When is it being broadcasted?

[Trinx]

Indeed it is.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/fb/facebook.html?stream=stream1 For anyone wanting a live stream.

Metkiller: The inauguration begins In 4 and a half hours.

[n00b1n8R]

GJ finally ditching bush.

Spoilerd for OMG RACISMhttp://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8813/changeci2.jpg

[Anton]

Ah I'm looking forward to listening to his speech. Also, it's crazy how much security detail is being put into this.

Did anyone notice his new limousine?

[n00b1n8R]

His limousine has made it onto national news in Australia 2 times this week

God damn, must be nothing happening in this country.

[beele]

I will be watching it on the news (they have a special broadcast for it today).

[Apoc4lypse]

yea classes are supposed to start for me today so I drove to my morning class, no one in the classroom, the people at the help desk have no idea wtfxup and tell me to check my online schedule to see if the class was moved. The schools internet is down in the tech building (wtf?!... irony) so I can't do that. Walk around some more, finally find a working computer, log on to see that I got an email from my professor.

[/quote]Class is canceled today due to the probability of less than half the class showing up due to current weather conditions (we got like 3 inches of snow) and the presidential inauguration.[/quote]

Now I drive home and have to go back at like 1:30 for my other class which didn't say its cancelled... yet.

[Random]

I am there :D

[Jelly]

Congratulations, President Obama.

[NullZero]

Damn, that speech was good.

[ODX]

To believe people still have school, sickens me, as they missed this momentous speech.
It just ended while I was typing this, and man does he look happy, with the job he has to do....Wow I'm typing really seriously, sorry if something doesn't make sense :P

[Limited]

Today is a great day for America, today is a great day for the World.

This is a landmark day for everyone in the world.

Ive been watching it for 3 and a half hours straight lol, my housemate is so pissed at me for hogging the tv, he cant understand the importance this is to the UK. He assumes as its America it has nothing to do with us.

[InnerGoat]

**** YEAH PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA!

[12:29] Kyon: So far with Obama as president I'm hearing only talking! Not doing!

[beele]

Thank god we have cnn here, since the broadcast on our local channel sucked like hell.

Nice speech :)

[cheezdue]

Just finished watching it, he sounds promising.

[Rob Oplawar]

Good speech. I'm right there with him, assuming he's not full of shit.

He is going to be judged either very harshly or as one of the greatest presidents-
Either he's going to not deliver on all these bold promises and hype and people are going to hate him, or he's going to actually do it and as they say, the rest will be history.
Here's hoping. I'd say "I'll do my part" but I'm in a rather, er, privileged position where that's not saying much.

[Rook]

Heh, yeah he'll pick up the economy.

[CN3089]

**** YEAH PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA!

[12:29] Kyon: So far with Obama as president I'm hearing only talking! Not doing!
So he starts with a speech? Figures. http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

[klange]

I watched the Oath on a 2" Sony in a car going ~60 in a 25.

[OmegaDragon]

Great speech. All day in school every classroom has the channel set to CNN. Hope that he actually does something.

[flibitijibibo]

I basically skipped the last half of my school day to see this. Wonder how the next year or so will play out.

[CN3089]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ got all web 2.0ed up goddam

[Dwood]

What i kept waiting for was that gunshot and the bullet, i won't lie.

Everyone's been saying that he would get shot though.

[MetKiller Joe]

Good speech. It seemed like my entire school was huddled around a projector screen for 30 minutes while he talked.

[dark57]

I skipped lunch to watch that :P every at my school said he looked like he was ready to get shoot.

Also heard he was gonna put spinners on the limo.

[mech]

I skipped lunch to watch that :P every at my school said he looked like he was ready to get shoot.

Also heard he was gonna put spinners on the limo.

This isn't even funny and everyone at your school is an idiot.


ready to get shoot :downs:

[ExAm]

http://i41.tinypic.com/2mw7ct2.jpg

[dark57]

ready to get shoot :downs:
Yeah why not.

[Masterz1337]

What i kept waiting for was that gunshot and the bullet, i won't lie.

Everyone's been saying that he would get shot though.

If a single person pulled a gun out in that crowd and even raised it towards Obama he would have been beaten to death on the spot. Secret Service wouldn't even be needed. I've never seen so many people before.

[dark57]

If a single person pulled a gun out in that crowd and even raised it towards Obama he would have been beaten to death on the spot. Secret Service wouldn't even be needed. I've never seen so many people before.
There were probably snipers on every building too.

[Bodzilla]

There were probably snipers on every building too.
Do you try to be this retarded? like honestly dude what the fuck.

[Malloy]

I would 'LOL' if he re painted the whitehouse black.


If you've read his autobiography then you'd understand why this is a humorous possibility.

[Disaster]

If a single person pulled a gun out in that crowd and even raised it towards Obama he would have been beaten to death on the spot. Secret Service wouldn't even be needed. I've never seen so many people before.
It was an estimated 1-2 million as we were told during school. It may be different but thats somewhere to begin.

Today is a very great day for America. I hope Obama leads us too the light and America can prosper once again.

[LinkandKvel]

There were probably snipers on every building too.Too bad there were no buildings.

[Disaster]

There were probably snipers on every building too.
:lmao:

[dark57]

Do you try to be this retarded? like honestly dude what the fuck.
Uh i think you miss understood me. By snipers i mean people protecting him.

[LinkandKvel]

Uh i think you miss understood me. By snipers i mean people protecting him.I thought snipers were people who specialized shooting with sniper rifles :confused:

[Donut]

fuckers i was THERE. me and my friends snuck as close as we could. we were right across the street from where all the people in chairs were.
ill get pictures, hold on
E: also yeah, there were snipers. i got pictures.
spoilered for obnoxious loading time on this shitticle hotel internet

this is me
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/TheKillerDonut/inauguration/P1000302.jpg
this is a sniper
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/TheKillerDonut/inauguration/P1000288.jpg
my camera sucks, but this is obama giving his speech
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/TheKillerDonut/inauguration/P1000317.jpg

[dark57]

I thought snipers were people who specialized shooting with sniper rifles :confused:
:\ yes thats is what a sniper is...and those snipers i was talking about were protecting him (Obama)
Kthnxbai

[Disaster]

E: nvm

[Malloy]

whats with the John Lennon glasses?

[LinkandKvel]

There were probably snipers on every building too.


Too bad there were no buildings.

explain.

[Donut]

why not john lennin glasses? when my hair isnt all matted down with that hat, i actually look like him

[Sel]

Donut you have awesome glasses.

[Donut]

who saw me on tv? i was interviewed by a Belgian tv camera guy. i was on Belgian tv, and probably on a major news channel too

[dark57]

explain.

Gladly...
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/TheKillerDonut/inauguration/P1000288.jpg
Sniper goes on the building which is at a spot were he can see obama and his surroundings.
Thanks for the pic donut.

[=sw=warlord]

Gladly...
[/image]
Sniper goes on the building which is at a spot were he can see obama and his surroundings.
Thanks for the pic donut.
Don't snipers usualy laydown for sniping?
all that recoil and the reduced accuracy of firing a weapon like a sniper standing up and all...would have thought laying down with a bipod for the sniper would improve the accuracy instead of stand up on the top of a building basicly screaming hey im up here come and get me bitches.

[Ifafudafi]

I'm assuming he's less of an actual sniper and more of a sentry/lookout.

Anyway, just saw it. That fucking yo-yo-mama made my ears bleed, but the nice clarinet/cello/violin trio eased the pain. Obama's speech was prolly one of the best speeches a President has made, which is even more amazing considering he wrote most of it himself.

It's gonna be an exciting 4 years.

[SnaFuBAR]

There are many shooting positions, especially off-hand and awkward stance, that snipers have to qualify in. With multiple snipers deployed for overwatch, not even a sniper rifle is necessary for urban sniping conditions (~500 meters to target). A scoped semi-auto rifle is more than sufficient for the task at hand.

[AAA]

The inauguration of Obama, 44th president, 1st African American to be put in the White House, Is happening only hours from now. This is a great day.

ftfy.

[LinkandKvel]

Gladly...
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/TheKillerDonut/inauguration/P1000288.jpg
Sniper goes on the building which is at a spot were he can see obama and his surroundings.
Thanks for the pic donut.
Yea. Not close enough buildings for snipers to be "on every building" and at an effective range at the same time

[Siliconmaster]

Cool pics. I watched the inauguration and loved Obama's speech. I hope he'll do well as President.

[English Mobster]

At school we watched it on a live CNN feed. I know he stuttered on the Oath, but was it just the feed, or did he say, "I do solemnly swear to execute the President of the United States"?

[klange]

He said "office of". He did, however, drop the word "will" somewhere.

[Heathen]

Watched it 3 times today at school...I guess my hand isn't going up my ass.

I hate that everyone in my class went D: when they made him say "I....Barack Hussein Obama"

Hussein is a common name...jesus fucking christ.

[Corndogman]

The guy reading the oath to him messed up a little at one point, and it confused him.

[CN3089]

At school we watched it on a live CNN feed. I know he stuttered on the Oath, but was it just the feed, or did he say, "I do solemnly swear to execute the President of the United States"?
Roberts screwed up part of the oath and then they both stumbled over each other trying to correct it vOv

[thehoodedsmack]

http://sneil.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54f9164528834010536ca756c970b-800wi

They see him rollin'...

Love the new Presidential limo. :awesome:

[Dwood]

http://sneil.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54f9164528834010536ca756c970b-800wi

They see him rollin'...

Love the new Presidential limo. :awesome:

That thing can fend off asteroids.

[Heathen]

To believe people still have school, sickens me, as they missed this momentous speech.
It just ended while I was typing this, and man does he look happy, with the job he has to do....Wow I'm typing really seriously, sorry if something doesn't make sense :P
What kind of fucked up school didn't let the kids watch the speech?

I watched it in 4th hour and again in 7th on channel 1.

[jngrow]

Strangely enough, my school had an extended first period, but no requirement to watch the speech. If a teacher didn't want the class to watch, we didn't watch.

[flibitijibibo]

You know what always bugged me? The fact that Grover Cleveland counts as 2 presidents. Barack even said "44 people have now taken the oath" or whatever.

[Anton]

That thing can fend off asteroids.


Well you just admitted you were watching fox news. :rolleyes:

My step dad was flipping through the channels to see the crowds this morning on fox news they said that exact same thing...


Also, today was awesome. So much hope in the world. I just hope that everyone pulls together and we actually accomplish something..

[Mass]

His limousine has made it onto national news in Australia 2 times this week

God damn, must be nothing happening in this country.
No, American news must be presented in an American manner, with frivolous side-tracking to distract from actual events...

[n00b1n8R]

No, American news must be presented in an American manner, with frivolous side-tracking to distract from actual events...
Australia.

[Heathen]

What i kept waiting for was that gunshot and the bullet, i won't lie.

Everyone's been saying that he would get shot though.
Not everyone. Just idiots.

[Amit]

Yea. Not close enough buildings for snipers to be "on every building" and at an effective range at the same time

Chill out, dude. This doesn't have to be a debate.

[LinkandKvel]

Chill out, dude. This doesn't have to be a debate.

Chill out? I'm as calm as can be.

[Mr Buckshot]

Congratulations. Btw some of you have TVs in the classrooms with cable? Whoa. There are TVs in most of my classrooms but none of them can actually watch channels, they are only for DVDs and tapes as the school doesn't have a TV line. (end off topic)

Saw the inauguration being broadcast on CNN. I was watching a recording on a DVR so it was kind of funny seeing the word "LIVE" in big letters on the top corner when it had actually started many hours ago.

[Heathen]

Congratulations. Btw some of you have TVs in the classrooms with cable? Whoa. There are TVs in most of my classrooms but none of them can actually watch channels, they are only for DVDs and tapes as the school doesn't have a TV line. (end off topic)

Saw the inauguration being broadcast on CNN. I was watching a recording on a DVR so it was kind of funny seeing the word "LIVE" in big letters on the top corner when it had actually started many hours ago.
Your school sucks.

Poor schools ftl.

[Amit]

Congratulations. Btw some of you have TVs in the classrooms with cable? Whoa. There are TVs in most of my classrooms but none of them can actually watch channels, they are only for DVDs and tapes as the school doesn't have a TV line. (end off topic)

Saw the inauguration being broadcast on CNN. I was watching a recording on a DVR so it was kind of funny seeing the word "LIVE" in big letters on the top corner when it had actually started many hours ago.

At my school we have TVs in every classroom as it's our main form of information. Attached to each overhanging TV mount is a Toshiba DVD/VHS Combo player. A Green Screen indicates the start and end of a period. All are cable TV capable but since in class exams are going on Yesterday and today, there is zero tolerance for watching anything other than the PowerPoint information stuff roll across the screens and if you're in an exam, the exam video, if required for the course, such as Film Studies. We have light beep through the speakers at Green Screen and seven minutes before the end of every period. A green screen with no beep comes up twenty two minutes after Lunch starts, which indicates the departure of students in detention. Lunch is only 45 minutes long so that kind of sucks for people in detention who want to get stuff from the cafeteria as there is always a ridiculously massive line up.

Rich school FTW?

[DarkHalo003]

I heard Obama made a very good speech, although his oath wasn't exactly gracefully said. Still, new president, new era(?).

Guys, Bush wasn't that bad of a president. Tell me, if you had natural disasters, confuzled war, and a declining economic state, would you be able to hold the country together so well to where it didn't implode? Probably not.

I just hope Obama can survive the massive amounts of paper work and crap for the first few weeks. That alone can make anyone drag.

[SnaFuBAR]

I heard Obama made a very good speech, although his oath wasn't exactly gracefully said. Still, new president, new era(?).

The Justice messed up.

Guys, Bush wasn't that bad of a president. Tell me, if you had natural disasters, confuzled war, and a declining economic state, would you be able to hold the country together so well to where it didn't implode? Probably not.

No, he wasn't bad, he was terrible.

I just hope Obama can survive the massive amounts of paper work and crap for the first few weeks. That alone can make anyone drag.

yep yep

.

[DarkHalo003]

.
Yeah, I heard about the Justice not saying one of the words till the very end and that caused Obama to mess up a bit.

Bush was NOT a terrible president. Sure, his policies were not so great in several cases, but he managed to keep the country from imploding with riots and revolts. To me, that makes him an average president. The main problem was that people kept blaming him for the hurricanes (fucking stupid right?) and for the war (could have gone better, don't know what to think of it). The Hurricane disaster in New Orleans was not Bush's fault because Bush did a lot of what he could do possible at the moment. It's the Louisiana state gov't that really fucked up.

Either way, Obama even said himself that Bush was good man who had a ton on his plate. It's not like Bush had an open scenario and smooth country that he royally screwed over. It's not like that at all. If you think that, then you're ignoring half of the shit that happened during his 8 years of office.

[LinkandKvel]

Yeah, I heard about the Justice not saying one of the words till the very end and that caused Obama to mess up a bit.

Bush was NOT a terrible president. Sure, his policies were not so great in several cases, but he managed to keep the country from imploding with riots and revolts.

He didnt do shit. People just did not riot. It's not his rightdoing

To me, that makes him an average president. The main problem was that people kept blaming him for the hurricanes (fucking stupid right?) and for the war (could have gone better, don't know what to think of it).

Yea ummm why are we still at war? After no "weapons of mass destruction" were found, there hasn't been a good reason we're still over there YET.

The Hurricane disaster in New Orleans was not Bush's fault because Bush did a lot of what he could do possible at the moment. It's the Louisiana state gov't that really fucked up.

Yea because you know he's the president and couldn't have possibly done anymore than he did.

Either way, Obama even said himself that Bush was good man who had a ton on his plate. It's not like Bush had an open scenario and smooth country that he royally screwed over. It's not like that at all. If you think that, then you're ignoring half of the shit that happened during his 8 years of office.

Name a recent president worse then Bush if he wasn't terrible then.......^This

[=sw=warlord]

:words:
If bush was so good why is he the first precident to have a pair of shoes thrown at him in anger?
Or why have there been several instances where he is saying one thing yet meaning/doing the oppisite?
Oh and what about the ole famous quote "each year more and more of our imported oil comes from foreign land"[something to that extent theres a youtube video with it]

[Heathen]

Bush sucks...end of story.

no wait, today was the end of the story.

[SnaFuBAR]

Fuck it, who cares, we're done with that part of history, and now we have someone that hopefully proves capable of beginning a turn around in the state of our country.

[LinkandKvel]

Bush sucks...end of story.

no wait, today was the end of the story.
lol what are you talking about? ^ Bush did sooooooooooo much for America

"Fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice...................well don't get fooled again"-George W. Bush

[DarkHalo003]

^This
Are you deprived of past history? There are several worse presidents then Bush:
-Franklin Pierce was so bad at being president that he was abandoned by his party.
-James Buchanan badly dealt with the happenings in the country and almost caused the state of Utah to revolt. He also failed to keep the Civil War from occurring.
-Grant, although did several good acts, had so many scandals crawling around it practically butchered the trust of the administration.
-Describe recent. If anyone, Nixon was just like Grant.

Bush pretty much had everything that would make everyone think he was a terrible president. Why? Because the first time the U.S. had a massive Natural Disaster and was in war with terrorists, Bush was president. It just so happened that half of that occurred. More or less, it was Bush being president at the wrong time, mainly his second election.

Bush got a shoe thrown at him because the reporter was upset about some factors that had changed in his land. There are still many people in the Middle East who do not like Bush, although there are many who do. Iraq was ultimately a mistake to get into, but Afghanistan was exactly the spot to be. Shit happens. People do stupid stuff. Bush was an Average president because he protected the country enough to keep it intact. I also advise you talk to some honest U.S. soldiers who have toured the Middle East. They'll give you a different opinion about Bush I'm sure (not the ones that whined about having to go to Iraq; you joined to protect the country out of your comfort zone).

[LinkandKvel]

Are you deprived of past history? There are several worse presidents then Bush:
-Franklin Pierce was so bad at being president that he was abandoned by his party.
-James Buchanan badly dealt with the happenings in the country and almost caused the state of Utah to revolt. He also failed to keep the Civil War from occurring.
-Grant, although did several good acts, had so many scandals crawling around it practically butchered the trust of the administration.

I believe I said recent president. Yea l2read.

Bush pretty much had everything that would make everyone think he was a terrible president. Why? Because the first time the U.S. had a massive Natural Disaster and was in war with terrorists, Bush was president. It just so happened that half of that occurred. More or less, it was Bush being president at the wrong time, mainly his second election.

I'm still trying to figure out how'd he get that second term.

Bush got a shoe thrown at him because the reporter was upset about some factors that had changed in his land. There are still many people in the Middle East who do not like Bush, although there are many who do. Iraq was ultimately a mistake to get into, but Afghanistan was exactly the spot to be. Shit happens. People do stupid stuff.

And some people do more stupid stuff than others, which is why we call them stupid or Bush..

[flibitijibibo]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/2d/AccidentallyEconomy.jpg

[DarkHalo003]

.
1.) We've actually not had that many bad presidents since right before FDR. Although, Nixon can be viewed by people as a bad president.

2.) Don't look at me, I was only 12. It was his second term that was really rocky though. His first term was hardly anything but average for what he still went through.

3.) Don't pull a U-turn like that fool. Bush tried his best to help the country and he managed to keep it intact during a major crisis. To me, that makes him an okay president. Of course, it's the exact opposite for you. I guess people will have their opinions about Bush. That's really what amounts to in the end.

Half the of the market failing was our damn fault anyway. Laziness I say. This is more or less my opinion, but we really started slacking off. Unemployment goes up because people are being lazy or trying to live off the gov't, which in a Republican gov't system does not work so easily. We blame that on Bush because we don't want to blame ourselves. CONSPIRACY?

I dare not say more about that because I know it will cause a riot.

[Mr Buckshot]

Bush wasn't a dictator - he was a democratic president. He preemptively declared war on Iraq, yes, but the cabinet had to approve his decision and they had every right to veto it and not proceed with the operation. What he says is not obliged to be obeyed, yet the cabinet obeyed him. So while Bush made some ghastly mistakes in his term, some other high-ranking politicians have to share the blame as well.

As for the economy, the general populace has to take much of the blame as well, what with all the stupid people who refuse to pay off their installments and still walk away scot free.

But screw that, it's over now, let's just hope that Barack Obama lives up to his promises.

Btw, Obama swore to help the environment and find new energy sources, yet he was sitting in a hugeass gasoline-powered limo that was inching VERY slowly to the parade. Waste of petrol, but worse, shitloads of smog dumped into the air. WHY.

[flibitijibibo]

Pretty much just protection. If I were him, I'd be hiding in The Beast too.

[DarkHalo003]

Bush wasn't a dictator - he was a democratic president. He preemptively declared war on Iraq, yes, but the cabinet had to approve his decision and they had every right to veto it and not proceed with the operation. What he says is not obliged to be obeyed, yet the cabinet obeyed him. So while Bush made some ghastly mistakes in his term, some other high-ranking politicians have to share the blame as well.

As for the economy, the general populace has to take much of the blame as well, what with all the stupid people who refuse to pay off their installments and still walk away scot free.

But screw that, it's over now, let's just hope that Barack Obama lives up to his promises.

Btw, Obama swore to help the environment and find new energy sources, yet he was sitting in a hugeass gasoline-powered limo that was inching VERY slowly to the parade. Waste of petrol, but worse, shitloads of smog dumped into the air. WHY.
^This times a billion.

[blind]

I laughed at the girl who screamed near the end of the anthem.

[LinkandKvel]

Bush wasn't a dictator - he was a democratic president. What? He preemptively declared war on Iraq, yes, but the cabinet had to approve his decision and they had every right to veto it and not proceed with the operation. What he says is not obliged to be obeyed, yet the cabinet obeyed him. So while Bush made some ghastly mistakes in his term, some other high-ranking politicians have to share the blame as well.

Yea but does the president not choose their cabinet members?

As for the economy, the general populace has to take much of the blame as well, what with all the stupid people who refuse to pay off their installments and still walk away scot free.

This has never been anything new though.

But screw that, it's over now, let's just hope that Barack Obama lives up to his promises.

Btw, Obama swore to help the environment and find new energy sources, yet he was sitting in a hugeass gasoline-powered limo that was inching VERY slowly to the parade. Waste of petrol, but worse, shitloads of smog dumped into the air. WHY.

I would assume he'd like to live to make those promises.(1 character)

[Rentafence]

Bush wasn't a dictator - he was a democratic president. What? He preemptively declared war on Iraq, yes, but the cabinet had to approve his decision and they had every right to veto it and not proceed with the operation. What he says is not obliged to be obeyed, yet the cabinet obeyed him. So while Bush made some ghastly mistakes in his term, some other high-ranking politicians have to share the blame as well.

Yea but does the president not choose their cabinet members?

Congress approves the decision to go to war.

[Rob Oplawar]

I try to keep myself from stepping into these mud flinging contests, especially when my side is already well supported, but I can't resist offering my opinion, which is an end-of-story to me:

Good man, bad president. I'm a programmer; if you put me in office I would fuck up the US worse than Bush has, but it wouldn't be for lack of trying, because I would try my very best to do a good job. Good intentions are a measure of a person's worth as a person, not their worth at their job. I have no doubt that Bush had good intentions and tried hard and is underneath it all a great guy, but we have seen clearly that he did a piss-poor job as president. The majority of Americans and the vast majority of the rest of the world agree with me.

[Bodzilla]

Yeah, I heard about the Justice not saying one of the words till the very end and that caused Obama to mess up a bit.

Bush was NOT a terrible president. Sure, his policies were not so great in several cases, but he managed to keep the country from imploding with riots and revolts. To me, that makes him an average president. The main problem was that people kept blaming him for the hurricanes (fucking stupid right?) and for the war (could have gone better, don't know what to think of it). The Hurricane disaster in New Orleans was not Bush's fault because Bush did a lot of what he could do possible at the moment. It's the Louisiana state gov't that really fucked up.

Either way, Obama even said himself that Bush was good man who had a ton on his plate. It's not like Bush had an open scenario and smooth country that he royally screwed over. It's not like that at all. If you think that, then you're ignoring half of the shit that happened during his 8 years of office.
:le fail:

[paladin]

I try to keep myself from stepping into these mud flinging contests, especially when my side is already well supported, but I can't resist offering my opinion, which is an end-of-story to me:

Good man, bad president. I'm a programmer; if you put me in office I would fuck up the US worse than Bush has, but it wouldn't be for lack of trying, because I would try my very best to do a good job. Good intentions are a measure of a person's worth as a person, not their worth at their job. I have no doubt that Bush had good intentions and tried hard and is underneath it all a great guy, but we have seen clearly that he did a piss-poor job as president. The majority of Americans and the vast majority of the rest of the world agree with me.


I love this doctor!

[Donut]

Chill out? I'm as calm as can be.
the term they used on the news channel i was watching was "sharp shooters", so while they might not be snipers, there were guards with accurate weapons in positions on the buildings.
i even walked right by a guy with an m4. he was just standing there looking around
E: ah, im late. this argument is already over

[Mr Buckshot]

Congress approves the decision to go to war.

thanks for clarifying that, sorry I mixed up the cabinet and the congress.

But my point still stands - yeah Bush sucked, but his worst mistake - the war in Iraq - wasn't totally his fault. A considerable number of high-ranking men in suits are also to blame because they approved the decision when they had every right to veto it.

The president =/= a dictator, so even if he means what he says, he doesn't have the power to guarantee it'll happen. Roosevelt had some neat ideas for the economy during the 1930's depression, but Congress vetoed a considerable number of his requests. Obama will be facing this obstacle too, unfortunately. Let's just hope that his plans to find alternative energy sources and create more jobs don't get bashed by incompetent men in suits.

[DaneO'Roo]

In before future drama.

[Limited]

Just thought I'd clear up a few things...


Don't snipers usualy laydown for sniping?
all that recoil and the reduced accuracy of firing a weapon like a sniper standing up and all...would have thought laying down with a bipod for the sniper would improve the accuracy instead of stand up on the top of a building basicly screaming hey im up here come and get me bitches.
You seem to know a bit about snipers, but forget they work in pairs, they one a spotter (the one that stands up/lies next to the shooter) and then the actual shooter, that constantly stays laid down.


Yea. Not close enough buildings for snipers to be "on every building" and at an effective range at the same time

There were snipers along the WHOLE car drive, and on every building surrounding the inauguration ceremony. You say they are out of range, why do you instantly think they need to be in range of barrack? If a bomb goes off, shooters need to be in range of the full crowd, to try and prevent it.

[flibitijibibo]

I think he means democratic as in democracy, not the party.

[Rob Oplawar]

I stopped reading right there. Buckshot clearly you have no earthly clue what you're talking about.

Bush was a republican you dumbass.
That made me lol.

[LinkandKvel]

There were snipers along the WHOLE car drive, and on every building surrounding the inauguration ceremony. You say they are out of range, why do you instantly think they need to be in range of barrack? If a bomb goes off, shooters need to be in range of the full crowd, to try and prevent it.Effective range meaning I forgot which the streets the crowd was on :p

[Phopojijo]

thanks for clarifying that, sorry I mixed up the cabinet and the congress.

But my point still stands - yeah Bush sucked, but his worst mistake - the war in Iraq - wasn't totally his fault. A considerable number of high-ranking men in suits are also to blame because they approved the decision when they had every right to veto it.

The president =/= a dictator, so even if he means what he says, he doesn't have the power to guarantee it'll happen. Roosevelt had some neat ideas for the economy during the 1930's depression, but Congress vetoed a considerable number of his requests. Obama will be facing this obstacle too, unfortunately. Let's just hope that his plans to find alternative energy sources and create more jobs don't get bashed by incompetent men in suits.
1) Hitler won his election democratically.

2) Congress (those who paid attention and didn't simply blind-vote) were basing their decision on information the President's office gave them.

... Which was wrong...

... And has still not been investigated thoroughly enough to determine it wasn't intentionally false information.

It would be entirely his fault if he lied to his voters (in this case Congress). It's happened before...
They had the motive... they had the means... be critical of your elected officials.

Sure, be critical of Obama too... trust no-one until given good reason.

[Mr Buckshot]

I stopped reading right there. Buckshot clearly you have no earthly clue what you're talking about.


Bush was a republican you dumbass.



No dumbass, I know he's a republican, I was referring to democracy, not to political parties. I guess my English wasn't clear enough, when I said "democratic president" I used a lowercase d and not a capital D to show that I meant democracy.


1) Hitler won his election democratically.

His "National Socialist" party was democratically voted into power, but I think he was simply appointed Chancellor, the people never actually voted him in as chancellor.

[Phopojijo]

Yeahhhh there's a big difference between a democracy and a democrat.

Sidenote: Liberal these days is just a Socialist euphemism. If you actually look up the liberal ideology, it'd actually be what you consider "libertarian".

P.S. -- everyone... discuss issues -- great... just discuss it civilly.

Edit -- never mind I'll hold off my thoughts 'til later.

[Heathen]

In before futurama.
I love that show :D

Haven't we learned that we cant talk politics or religion?

This is why we cant have nice threads.

[MetKiller Joe]

P.S. -- everyone... discuss issues -- great... just discuss it civilly, knowledgably, & intelligently.



Haven't we learned that we cant talk politics or religion?

This is why we cant have nice threads.

.

[dark57]

I have to write a 1 page essay about what this means to me... I dont feel anything OH NOES!

[MetKiller Joe]

I have to write a 1 page essay about what this means to me... I dont feel anything OH NOES!

To you? No, they want you to write the following:



Change is good, change is good, change is good, change is good, change is good, change is good, change is good, change is good.

Hope, hope, hope, hope, hope, hope.

Good thoughts.
/politically correct crap

[Rentafence]

To you? No, they want you to write the following:

I wrote the opposite about Obama in a paper for Chinese. :awesome:

[Mr Buckshot]

I wrote the opposite about Obama in a paper for Chinese. :awesome:

for some trivial info, most Chinese people, including Taiwanese and Singaporeans, are pretty happy with Obama's victory too. Heck, past Chinese leaders actually supported MLK's cause :O

[Limited]

I have to write a 1 page essay about what this means to me... I dont feel anything OH NOES!
Thats gonna be a piece of piss. Only hard thing is keeping it under a page, I hate essays with a stupidly low limit.

I got one in for April thats gotta be around 15,000 words, NOW we can elaborate :)

[dark57]

Thats gonna be a piece of piss. Only hard thing is keeping it under a page, I hate essays with a stupidly low limit.

I got one in for April thats gotta be around 15,000 words, NOW we can elaborate :)
I dont like big essays the more i write the biger of a piece of shit it is.

[Phopojijo]

Thats gonna be a piece of piss. Only hard thing is keeping it under a page, I hate essays with a stupidly low limit.

I got one in for April thats gotta be around 15,000 words, NOW we can elaborate :)I believe it's Winston Churchill who said something like "If you want me to talk for 15 minutes I'll need 2 weeks to prepare... if you want me to talk for an hour I'll just need a week -- and if you want me to talk for 4 hours I'm ready right now"

[Rob Oplawar]

haha, I love that guy. he said some awesome things.

[Bodzilla]

So obama re-did the lines.

[ExAm]

So obama re-did the lines.Yup, he double oath'd since both he and the guy giving the oath flubbed it the first time :v:

[StankBacon]

good start.

[Phopojijo]

good start.Better than going to Crawford :D

[n00b1n8R]

So he closed Guantanamo Bay.
About time you guys.

[Corndogman]

heh, SNL has a funny Guantanamo bay skit, unfortunately its nowhere on the internet.

[Rob Oplawar]

So he closed Guantanamo Bay.
About time you guys.

within the first two days. Not bad.

[Heathen]

Swhat I said. Of course I live in hickshit louisiana so everyone views it as a bad thing.

[Mr Buckshot]

So he closed Guantanamo Bay.
About time you guys.

Agreed, very good start.

If Obama progresses like this, maybe soon the U.S. military will be out of Iraq before 2012 (CNN previously said he pledged to pull them out BY 2012).

Funny piece of history: During the cold war the Americans established a lot of radar station lines in Canada to keep an eye out for any Soviet attacks. Canadian politicians themselves had to fly to NYC and get clearance before they could visit the lines, even though the lines were sitting on their territory.

[SnaFuBAR]

I heard today that he actually has a complete withdraw planned to be complete within 16 months, and to further the progress in Afghanistan.

[Heathen]

idk if this has been posted.

http://www.popsci.com/files/DCCM20JAN2009-970.jpg

[n00b1n8R]

What am I sup- wait is that all people? :aaaaa:

[Pooky]

What am I sup- wait is that all people? :aaaaa:

At first I was like wtf scorch marks?

Then it clicked o_o

[TeeKup]

I heard today that he actually has a complete withdraw planned to be complete within 16 months, and to further the progress in Afghanistan.

Hot damn, man's getting shit done. :D

[MetKiller Joe]

I heard today that he actually has a complete withdraw planned to be complete within 16 months, and to further the progress in Afghanistan.


Good, now let's just pray the man has enough brains not to release anymore details to the enemy. This is the one thing I would have liked to have been a pleasant surprise.

[SnaFuBAR]

Good, now let's just pray the man has enough brains not to release anymore details to the enemy. This is the one thing I would have liked to have been a pleasant surprise.
How is that revealing plans to the enemy? For every presidency and every conflict, there has been aired statements about withdraw timetables, plans, etc. If this were revealing plans to the enemy, do you think everyone would say it? I think not. Even Bush announced, several times, his plans for a smaller troop presence, etc.

[MetKiller Joe]

How is that revealing plans to the enemy? For every presidency and every conflict, there has been aired statements about withdraw timetables, plans, etc.

Snaf, just because people have done it in the past doesn't mean that saying it isn't stupid. Your telling the enemy when you are going to start leaving; your plans for retreat are being broadcasted so your enemy can know ahead of time. That's stupid.



If this were revealing plans to the enemy, do you think everyone would say it? I think not. Even Bush announced, several times, his plans for a smaller troop presence, etc.


To quote south park



The Gang: There was no conspiracy behind 9/11.
Cartman: 1/4 of Americans believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy. So, you're saying that 1/4 of Americans are retards?
The Gang: Yes.


Most people are idiots. They make up the majority. If the majority doesn't know what is bad, then it doesn't get voiced.

This especially goes for politicans; as for Bush... God don't get me started.

[Phopojijo]

You know this "enemy" mindset is possibly part of the problem... just possibly...

[MetKiller Joe]

You know this "enemy" mindset is possibly part of the problem... just possibly...

Let's not go there. This is the inauguration thread. Not the soon-to-be why we went into Iraq thread.

[Phopojijo]

Let's not go there. This is the inauguration thread. Not the soon-to-be why we went into Iraq thread.... you brought it up though... in two consecutive posts prior. o.O

[Rob Oplawar]

Most people are idiots. They make up the majority.
Yes, because 1/4 is a majority.

Hm, I was about to say that most people I run into are quite intelligent, but then I remembered that I live in a city that has been ranked as the smartest in the US on multiple occasions by multiple sources, and I also remembered the existence of the entire south-east US. Maybe stupid people really do make up the majority in this country.

If so, god help us all. :(

[Dwood]

. Maybe stupid people really do make up the majority in this country.


How else do you think McCain made it as far as he did?
By smart people voting for him? The race was sealed the second Obama 'accepted' the nomination.

If the Majority of Republicans were 'smart' they would have voted for Mitt Romney.

If the Majority of Democrats were 'smart' they would have voted for Hillary.
Edit:
Instead the majority were idiots and we got a person who we didn't like (including palin) and a person we know nothing about regardless of their rhetoric. (Obama)

Congratulations idots.

[SnaFuBAR]

The only rhetoric is yours. Obama is doing fine thus far, and if he carries on, great. Stop crying that the Republicans lost power.

[Disaster]

The only rhetoric is yours. Obama is doing fine thus far, and if he carries on, great. Stop crying that the Republicans lost power.
The only thing I disagree with that he has done is the decision to close down Guantanamo. Keep the terrorists out of my country plzkthx.

[Phopojijo]

The only thing I disagree with that he has done is the decision to close down Guantanamo. Keep the terrorists out of my country plzkthx.Assuming they are terrorists. You don't know the stats behind how many people were wrongfully accused and sentenced (without due process) to it.

[ExAm]

The only thing I don't like so far is that he's been continuing the unmanned drone strikes in Pakistan, the first of which during Obama's presidency killed at least 18 people, three of them children.

[Mr Buckshot]

The only thing I disagree with that he has done is the decision to close down Guantanamo. Keep the terrorists out of my country plzkthx.

A lot of the people detained there were totally innocent. When a country's law enforcement decides "hey just because some Arabs did bad things on 9/11, therefore all Arabs have to be bad," they start blacklisting tons of Arabs, yes some are terrorists but some are nothing of the sort.

Do you even know how detainees have been treated in Guantanamo? Never mind, I don't want to say. Even if they're really sick terrorists, they're human, and as long as they have not received a death sentence yet they should be treated like human beings. If you want them to "suffer," don't go beyond solitary confinement in complete darkness.

Yes, I hate terrorists as much as you do, but when they're incarcerated, they can't harm you. So keep them in a proper prison that's appropriately supervised by the government.

Arguably the prison could just have a total replacement of staff and be closely monitored from then on, but closing it down sends a stronger message.

I support this decision, it's the first step in stopping the misuse of American military as international policemen.

[Dwood]

The only rhetoric is yours. Obama is doing fine thus far, and if he carries on, great. Stop crying that the Republicans lost power.

Hope you know he's not the savior.

Apparently you failed to take in the full version post.

I will not restate what I meant however, you should be smart enough to figure that out.

[Bodzilla]

The only thing I disagree with that he has done is the decision to close down Guantanamo. Keep the terrorists out of my country plzkthx.
so basically your saying, it's alright to ignore peoples human rights and commit torture, as long as we dont have to look at it.
awesome.

you want to do that shit you do it on your own fucking soil. Because these things are why the relations with other countrys have been so strained and shattered.

[Donut]

they are in Guantanamo for a reason...

[teh lag]

they are in Guantanamo for a reason...

Sorry, you must have Guantanamo confused with a normal prison - you know, a place where people have to be tried, convicted, etc before they get sent there.


Assuming they are terrorists. You don't know the stats behind how many people were wrongfully accused and sentenced (without due process) to it.

[Mr Buckshot]

they are in Guantanamo for a reason...

Can a domestic American prison not be used to hold suspected terrorists (and treat them lawfully)? We all want terrorists wiped off the face of this earth, but we want to be civilized at the same time don't we?

[Phopojijo]

Hope you know he's not the savior.

Apparently you failed to take in the full version post.

I will not restate what I meant however, you should be smart enough to figure that out.Uhm...


How else do you think McCain made it as far as he did?
By smart people voting for him? The race was sealed the second Obama 'accepted' the nomination.

If the Majority of Republicans were 'smart' they would have voted for Mitt Romney.

If the Majority of Democrats were 'smart' they would have voted for Hillary.
Edit:
Instead the majority were idiots and we got a person who we didn't like (including palin) and a person we know nothing about regardless of their rhetoric. (Obama)

Congratulations idots.If you know nothing about him...

How can you say he's going to be a crappy president?

I think Bush got you in the mindset to trust those you know will screw you terribly.

Yes, Obama can be bad... however he can be good. You can say someone's a fanboy if they continue to support a candidate after they betray their trust.

[nooBBooze]

so basically your saying, it's alright to ignore peoples human rights and commit torture, as long as we dont have to look at it.
awesome.
That's how it always worked. It's basic psychology and the mass psychology that is derived from it: out of sight, out of mind.
Shutting down Gitmo is but a mere publicity stunt as I'm sure the buisness will continue in actual secret facilities.

Change.

[Phopojijo]

Yeah that's possible.

Who knows.

[Rob Oplawar]

So I just got an e-mail from my extremely republican grandfather. He showed me an article that criticized Obama when he said "We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers." The article was titled "Obama's nod to nonbelievers and non-Christians unsettling."

I have to say, what the fuck, people. How many times have we been over this? People are to be judged by their actions and not by their race or their opinions or their beliefs. "Separation of church and state" is in the first amendment, people. I don't care when politicians speak religiously, because they have their rights same as I do. But it pisses me off to no fucking end when people try to politically impose their religious beliefs, or refuse to acknowledge atheists as a major part of this country.

To all anti-atheist Christians:
FUCK YOU.

[Disaster]

Can a domestic American prison not be used to hold suspected terrorists (and treat them lawfully)? We all want terrorists wiped off the face of this earth, but we want to be civilized at the same time don't we?
Yes they can however, these people in Guantanamo and other secret prisons are prisoners of war. They should be tried by a military court and held in military prison.

And sometimes, torture has to be resorted to.

If you had just captured a high ranking terrorist official who knew the location of a massive attack that would kill thousands, possibly millions, and he would not disclose the time and location of such an attack, do you think you would do anything to get that information to save the lives of thousands?

Now I'm not saying resort to severe torture like cutting his fingers off etc. Things like whats going on in Guantanamo. (IE: cold cells, sleep deprivation, etc.

Also, If they are not scared of military prison, then they will be more likely to participate in activities that could place them there.

[Pooky]

Yes they can however, these people in Guantanamo and other secret prisons are prisoners of war. They should be tried by a military court and held in military prison.

And sometimes, torture has to be resorted to.

If you had just captured a high ranking terrorist official who knew the location of a massive attack that would kill thousands, possibly millions, and he would not disclose the time and location of such an attack, do you think you would do anything to get that information to save the lives of thousands?

Now I'm not saying resort to severe torture like cutting his fingers off etc. Things like whats going on in Guantanamo. (IE: cold cells, sleep deprivation, etc.

Also, If they are not scared of military prison, then they will be more likely to participate in activities that could place them there.

No.

[Disaster]

No.
So you would just let millions of people die knowing that it could have been prevented?

think about it. The condition of 1 man vs 1,000,000 men :|

[Pooky]

So you would just let millions of people die knowing that it could have been prevented?

think about it. The condition of 1 man vs 1,000,000 men :|

Torture is never justified.

Imprisonment without trial is never justified.

[teh lag]

Torture is never justified.

Imprisonment without trial is never justified.

.

You don't know if you have the right person.
You don't know if they know anything.
You don't know if what they tell you is true.

Unless of course, you believe that there were witches running around in the 1600s and by torturing them into confession lives were saved.

[Disaster]

Torture is never justified.

Imprisonment without trial is never justified.
I never said they should be imprisoned with a trial. Infact if you read my above post, it says they should be tried :|.

What i'm trying to say is that Coercive methods of interrogation should be allowed ( http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Coersion ) Not outright torture.


http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200310/bowden




.

You don't know if you have the right person.
You don't know if they know anything.
You don't know if what they tell you is true.

Unless of course, you believe that there were witches running around in the 1600s and by torturing them into confession lives were saved.

Most captives will tell you their name.

Again, if they are high ranking officials they will most likely know something.

The third statement is the only downside. Still, the information could save lives and needs to be gotten.

That is why torture should be resorted to only under special occasions. I never said every prisoner was going to be tortured. Only if you have good reason too.

[Donut]

Sorry, you must have Guantanamo confused with a normal prison - you know, a place where people have to be tried, convicted, etc before they get sent there.
whether that was sarcastic or not, yeah i kinda did

[Mr Buckshot]

Torture doesn't work and besides the real terrorists are likely to be trained to withstand torture. And many of the terrorists are merely pawns - would you really expect that they would know what goes on in higher ranks? The terrorist leaders are evil but they aren't stupid, they know that eventually some of their pawns will get caught, hence they would likely not let their pawns know much just in case one of them is too sissy to withstand torture.

Look at Stalin's era in Russia - a lot of people "confessed" to shitloads of things under torture, and it wasn't gory torture - it involved things like sensory deprivation, threats to family members, etc. With sufficient time torture can make anyone confess to anything, and it doesn't need to be violent at all.

So yeah, Guantanamo is evil, Obama did the right thing shutting it down.

I'm still interested in Obama's plans to "modernize" the American education system though. It sounds vague, wonder what he truly means.

[thehoodedsmack]

I'm still interested in Obama's plans to "modernize" the American education system though. It sounds vague, wonder what he truly means.

I hope it focusses more on dealing with the litigant, ass-hole-ish, hip-hoppin' kids and their defunctional culture, putting more emphasis on individual learning, and moving away from standardized "everyone learns the same" testing, instead of what I imagine "modernize" means: putting laptops in the classrooms so the little fuckers can message each other while the teacher talks.

[n00b1n8R]

You don't know if you have the right person.
You don't know if they know anything.
You don't know if what they tell you is true.
I say the same thing of the death penalty. :eyesroll:

[Disaster]

Torture doesn't work and besides the real terrorists are likely to be trained to withstand torture. And many of the terrorists are merely pawns - would you really expect that they would know what goes on in higher ranks? The terrorist leaders are evil but they aren't stupid, they know that eventually some of their pawns will get caught, hence they would likely not let their pawns know much just in case one of them is too sissy to withstand torture.

Look at Stalin's era in Russia - a lot of people "confessed" to shitloads of things under torture, and it wasn't gory torture - it involved things like sensory deprivation, threats to family members, etc. With sufficient time torture can make anyone confess to anything, and it doesn't need to be violent at all.

So yeah, Guantanamo is evil, Obama did the right thing shutting it down.

I'm still interested in Obama's plans to "modernize" the American education system though. It sounds vague, wonder what he truly means.

I never said torture the pawns. Only the high ranking officials should be tortured and only with due cause. IE: An immediate threat to the saftey of thousands. Most people do break under torture and they speak w/e will get them out of the misery. Otherwise the shitload of people who confessed under torture would never have confessed :haw: It may not be true but they talk. And alot of the time POW's will slip up and say something they weren't supposed to. And besides, the methods of interrogation that should be used are only for gathering information from a suspect. Not forcing them to confess to something they didn't do.

The only way to defeat an enemy who hides among your allies is to know beforehand when the enemy will expose themselves. Thus to know this, we have to get information from those who know when they will be exposed. Obviously the methods being used are working because the Al-Qaeda and Taliban threats have been greatly reduced.

[SnaFuBAR]

The reality of Guantanamo was that completely innocent people were subjected to treatment irrelevant to either intelligence gathering or security. They were consistently degraded based on their religion and where they lived, being held without any evidence or intent to try them on any crime.

[SnaFuBAR]

I never said torture the pawns. Only the high ranking officials should be tortured and only with due cause. IE: An immediate threat to the saftey of thousands.
Firstly, torture doesn't work, and that's a fact. Secondly, what makes you think that these high rank officials wouldn't say something to throw off an operation against his organization, saving both the organizations infrastructures, objectives, command and control and saving him from more torture?

Sorry dude, you just don't make any sense.

[Disaster]

The reality of Guantanamo was that completely innocent people were subjected to treatment irrelevant to either intelligence gathering or security. They were consistently degraded based on their religion and where they lived, being held without any evidence or intent to try them on any crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees
Some innocent people are always caught up in the wrong thing at the wrong time and mistakes happen. However, the condition they were exposed to is wrong and immoral. The camps treatment of prisoners needed to be revised and the camp needed a new staff. People who are only foot soldiers and have no info other than training camp locations, etc should not be tortured. The top dog terrorists are another story. They should only be subjected to coercive interrogation until their real identity is confirmed and most of the time they do reveal their identity, and only without a reason to interrogate as I have previously stated.


Firstly, torture doesn't work, and that's a fact. Secondly, what makes you think that these high rank officials wouldn't say something to throw off an operation against his organization, saving both the organizations infrastructures, objectives, command and control and saving him from more torture?

Sorry dude, you just don't make any sense.

If torture didn't work, the CIA wouldn't be interested in it in the first place. They are not retards. The only reason it is being used is because they can gain information from it. There is a reason why the terrorists train for torture. They wouldn't train for torture in the first place if it didn't reveal their secrets. Your logic is flawed.

The thing keeping them from saying false information is fear. Fear is the dominating power in interrogation. They will fear the conditions they will be exposed to if they say something wrong.

[SnaFuBAR]

The top dog terrorists are another story. They should only be subjected to coercive interrogation
Still, torture doesn't work, and there is no guarantee that the info you gain from it is ever legit. Stop overlooking this. Your fantasy world where Jack Bauer yells, screams, spits and threatens a terrorist, gets intel and saves the day DOESN'T EXIST.

[Disaster]

Still, torture doesn't work, and there is no guarantee that the info you gain from it is ever legit. Stop overlooking this. Your fantasy world where Jack Bauer yells, screams, spits and threatens a terrorist, gets intel and saves the day DOESN'T EXIST.

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/08/does_torture_work.php

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thedebate/2005/11/one_of_the_bigg.html

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles2002/20020429.asp

The truth is, torture mostlikely is working out for the CIA otherwise it wouldn't be used. However, they are only saying it isn't working to discourage terrorists to train for torture. If the enemy thinks that we can't successfully break a prisoner, they won't try to make them immune. We can never be sure until we get a 100% factual report for the CIA.

If they disclosed information critical to winning the War on Terror, its basically signing their own suicide note :|

[Mr Buckshot]

I hope it focusses more on dealing with the litigant, ass-hole-ish, hip-hoppin' kids and their defunctional culture, putting more emphasis on individual learning, and moving away from standardized "everyone learns the same" testing, instead of what I imagine "modernize" means: putting laptops in the classrooms so the little fuckers can message each other while the teacher talks.

Yeah, I was thinking something along the same lines. Modernization shouldn't always be associated with technology - a math class or an English class can go very well without a computer in the classroom at ALL.

Modernization should mean that educational standards are brought closer to those of AP/IB courses, right from the start. More focus on UNDERSTANDING, less focus on memorization. Even AP/IB courses aren't always that great, but they're certainly more desirable than a lot of regular courses. Getting good grades in lousy courses in high school will mean you get badly screwed for college.

[DrunkenSamus]

Fuck...you guys are so intellectual it's driving me insane.

[CN3089]

And sometimes, torture has to be resorted to.
Oh hey cool, I didn't know inhuman scum posted on this forum!

[Disaster]

Oh hey cool, I didn't know inhuman scum posted on this forum!
Neither did I :|

[Rob Oplawar]

/flamebait

[Mr Buckshot]

And sometimes, torture has to be resorted to.

If torture was really that effective, then the outcomes of the world wars could be quite different. Think about how many POWs during those times were tortured for information.

And like I said, the higher-ranking terrorist people who actually know important stuff will stay away from the front lines of the conflict, it's bloody hard to even glimpse them, and those who are easiest to capture are unlikely to know a damned thing.

[n00b1n8R]

hurr durr
In the 17th century, women were tortured until they confessed to being a witch. This information was then used to trial them for witchcraft. They were then burned at the steak.

TORTURE IS AN EFFECTIVE WAY OF GAINING ACCURATE INFORMATION!!

[SnaFuBAR]

Disaster thinks that hardened, veteran top personnel would be cracked by torture, even though torture and coercion methods employed by the French against street fighters in Algiers did nothing.


:v:

[SnaFuBAR]

The truth is, torture mostlikely is working out for the CIA otherwise it wouldn't be used.
Consider the fact that there's not enough professional interrogators, and what does it tell you? It's amateurism employed by the CIA. Getting someone to "talk" (getting them to say what you want to hear [ie most likely the victim saying anything to stop abuse]) doesn't mean success.

[ExAm]

If you had just captured a high ranking terrorist official who knew the location of a massive attack that would kill thousands, possibly millions, and he would not disclose the time and location of such an attack, do you think you would do anything to get that information to save the lives of thousands?Anyone notice how this situation only ever happens in 24? :downs:

[ExAm]

Some innocent people are always caught up in the wrong thing at the wrong time and mistakes happen. Which should be fixed, not twisted into something loosely resembling a "fact of life".

[ExAm]

In the 17th century, women were tortured until they confessed to being a witch (I am Legion?). This information was then used to trial (was it a 30 day trial?) them for witchcraft. They were then burned at the steak (mmmm, magic steak...).

TORTURE IS AN EFFECTIVE WAY OF GAINING ACCURATE INFORMATION!!:eng101:

[Phopojijo]

Yeah the occasional multi-post isn't so bad... but try to keep it to a minimum guys (and girls).


Which should be fixed, not twisted into something loosely resembling a "fact of life".Like I said, many people prefer to trust in those who will screw them over (or otherwise do bad things) in predictable ways versus attempting to change it and reaching into the unknown.

Psychology really :-\

[Pooky]

I never said torture the pawns. Only the high ranking officials should be tortured and only with due cause. IE: An immediate threat to the saftey of thousands. Most people do break under torture and they speak w/e will get them out of the misery. Otherwise the shitload of people who confessed under torture would never have confessed :haw: It may not be true but they talk. And alot of the time POW's will slip up and say something they weren't supposed to. And besides, the methods of interrogation that should be used are only for gathering information from a suspect. Not forcing them to confess to something they didn't do.

The only way to defeat an enemy who hides among your allies is to know beforehand when the enemy will expose themselves. Thus to know this, we have to get information from those who know when they will be exposed. Obviously the methods being used are working because the Al-Qaeda and Taliban threats have been greatly reduced.

You're missing the point. No matter how 'evil' someone is, if we don't give them a fair trial and humane treatment then we're no better than they are.

[Huero]

I would hope he plans on fixing the textbooks. I'm not an American citizen, so I can't speak first-hand, but I've heard huge complaints from the scientific community about the validity of some of them.

a lot of them are fucking oooooold
i was taking HTML and not only were we learning basic HTML
we were using textbooks that were falling apart

[Phopojijo]

At least it didn't have a box of punchcards in the last page.

[Disaster]

:party:

[n00b1n8R]

:eng101:
>:P

[Mr Buckshot]

I would hope he plans on fixing the textbooks. I'm not an American citizen, so I can't speak first-hand, but I've heard huge complaints from the scientific community about the validity of some of them.

In my old American middle school, I didn't have an issue with textbooks - they were all the latest editions and all in good condition. And that was with the budget cuts under Gray Davis.

In my Canadian high school I've encountered far too many outdated textbooks that are so torn they are held together with tape and hope (then again about 55% of the school computers still run windows 98 so go figure). I understand that many American high schools face this problem too, hope Obama can fix this problem asap. I believe the school boards are obligated to provide up-to-date books to students, especially those who don't have the money to buy supplemental books or get tutoring.

[flibitijibibo]

From my old Bio text (which they still use today):
One example of the constant changes in science is acquired immune deficiency syndrome, or AIDS, a new virus that has made its way to the United States.Or something like that. It was 2 years ago, leave me alone >:U

E- Thanks for the catch ExAm. I knew it was acquired, how the hell did I get anti?

[Phopojijo]

You do know in Highschool the point is to teach you how to learn... and to teach you the fundamentals of Science (and each other program).

Up to date textbooks typically provide real-world, current examples of said knowledge in order to engage the students.

Directly it honestly teaches nothing... what it does, however, is keep the student interested and willing to learn. And that's valuable.

However a teacher can also do that.

So textbooks in and of itself are not necessary to keep 100% up-to-date. It however is very beneficial.

[ExAm]

From my old Bio text (which they still use today):Or something like that. It was 2 years ago, leave me alone >:U
Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome :eng101:

E:
Obama was like, "Dude, that's not cool," and Citigroup was all "Oh, my bad." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/27/obama-officials-tells-cit_n_161202.html) :downs:

[SnaFuBAR]

Looks like they're still going to buy it. Can't wait till Obama puts these people on the chopping block and makes an example of them.

Or perhaps I should break out the high powered rifle and get to trimming down the number of unnecessary business executives myself.

[Phopojijo]

Well that's kinda how business worked for a while... can't blame them for expecting it'll be business as usual just with a 45 Billion$ boost.

Oh wait you can.

[DarkHalo003]

I still can't believe Obama can even think immediately about pushing for independence from foreign oil companies. I mean, sure, depending on our own work force for oil (which will never happen because the tree hugger politicians in D.C. don't like it) can create jobs, we still need lower gas prices to get to our jobs so we can eat and drive and pay our taxes. I agree that we should become independent in the future, but now is not the time to risk shenanigans.

Even if we find an alternative fuel source, we'll still need people experienced with the new source of energy to work it; I doubt the unemployeed will know how to do that. Obama's ideas are good for future reference, but now is not the time to pull these stunts. Not everyone will be able to work with alternative sources, especially considering the U.S. can't sustain it by themselves.

Now I know people will be like: "But it causes jobs and people can learn and get loans...." NO IT'S VERY HARD TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW. Every bank and their branches are under extreme stress right now and are probably extremely resilient to give a shit load of loans right now.

I'll put my Kevlar on now because I know half of the members of this forum are going to start blabbing about how I'm wrong.

[Phopojijo]

I still can't believe Obama can even think immediately about pushing for independence from foreign oil companies. I mean, sure, depending on our own work force for oil (which will never happen because the tree hugger politicians in D.C. don't like it) can create jobs, we still need lower gas prices to get to our jobs so we can eat and drive and pay our taxes. I agree that we should become independent in the future, but now is not the time to risk shenanigans.

Even if we find an alternative fuel source, we'll still need people experienced with the new source of energy to work it; I doubt the unemployeed will know how to do that. Obama's ideas are good for future reference, but now is not the time to pull these stunts. Not everyone will be able to work with alternative sources, especially considering the U.S. can't sustain it by themselves.

Now I know people will be like: "But it causes jobs and people can learn and get loans...." NO IT'S VERY HARD TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW. Every bank and their branches are under extreme stress right now and are probably extremely resilient to give a shit load of loans right now.

I'll put my Kevlar on now because I know half of the members of this forum are going to start blabbing about how I'm wrong.
Firstly, the US cannot sustain Oil themselves... hence the wars, fluctuating prices, et cetra.

Secondly, the old method really worked out well for us :) It's the perfect thing to cause help us through this crisis.

*****

Edit -- Seems like you're confusing brazen blind decision making with heading in the right direction. Just because he's outlining a dozen plans at once, doesn't mean they'll be enacted all at once. He's being open with his constituents, the United States. If what he's saying is true, he's got a fairly deep plan and is going to take baby-steps toward the betterment of the country.

If Obama is completely being honest... he could have a good plan to enact over the course of the next 4-8 years to better the United States.

Don't trust in those you know will screw you over... let people who could potentially help you prove themselves.

[Disaster]

I still can't believe Obama can even think immediately about pushing for independence from foreign oil companies. I mean, sure, depending on our own work force for oil (which will never happen because the tree hugger politicians in D.C. don't like it) can create jobs, we still need lower gas prices to get to our jobs so we can eat and drive and pay our taxes. I agree that we should become independent in the future, but now is not the time to risk shenanigans.

Even if we find an alternative fuel source, we'll still need people experienced with the new source of energy to work it; I doubt the unemployeed will know how to do that. Obama's ideas are good for future reference, but now is not the time to pull these stunts. Not everyone will be able to work with alternative sources, especially considering the U.S. can't sustain it by themselves.

Now I know people will be like: "But it causes jobs and people can learn and get loans...." NO IT'S VERY HARD TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW. Every bank and their branches are under extreme stress right now and are probably extremely resilient to give a shit load of loans right now.

I'll put my Kevlar on now because I know half of the members of this forum are going to start blabbing about how I'm wrong.
Have you ever figured that you are wrong? :downs:

[DarkHalo003]

I try my best which is why I passed the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th grades. :awesome:

Super Moderator, my main idea now is that I think Obama should have reworded how he presented the news. He probably should have titled his presentation more towards "We Should Research Far More Into Alternative Fuels" instead of "I'm Pushing For Independence from Foreign Oil." That would have completely kept me from making that hugeass rant.

[Disaster]

I try my best which is why I passed the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th grades. :awesome:
:neckbeard: You have some real talent.

[DarkHalo003]

:neckbeard: You have some real talent.
I know I'm beyond proud of myself for making it this far in life. :lol:

[Disaster]

I know I'm beyond proud of myself for making it this far in life. :lol:
:iiam:

[Phopojijo]

I try my best which is why I passed the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th grades. :awesome:

Super Moderator, my main idea now is that I think Obama should have reworded how he presented the news. He probably should have titled his presentation more towards "We Should Research Far More Into Alternative Fuels" instead of "I'm Pushing For Independence from Foreign Oil." That would have completely kept me from making that hugeass rant.Well his goal is to be independent of Foreign oil... just implemented in a sane way.

[Huero]

barack hussein obama

[CN3089]

barack hussein obama
god damn america

[SnaFuBAR]

barack hussein obama
the point of that was?

[Huero]

idk i shitpost when im tired
sleep should help.

[Dwood]

Well his goal is to be independent of Foreign oil... just implemented in a sane way.

Eh?

There's nothing sane about dropping Oil completely and going green in 4 years (most likely 8 because that's how much we hate change).

[Phopojijo]

Eh?

There's nothing sane about dropping Oil completely and going green in 4 years (most likely 8 because that's how much we hate change).
1) He never said completely off oil... and he never even said completely off foreign oil.
2) If we keep burning oil at this rate we might not even HAVE any in 8-12 years time.
3) There's nothing sane about relying on nations that the government declares terrorist states for oil.

Note -- of the 6 "Axis of Evil" countries... 3 of them (Iraq, Iran, and Libya) are members of OPEC.

Whether they're terrorist states or not is a question yet to be answered... however that furthers the point against the last administration. (Be it from the terrorist terrorist terrorist direction or the we can't sustain ourselves direction)

Soooo

You've been mooted : D

[SnaFuBAR]

High fucking five, phopo.

[Disaster]

High fucking five, phopo.
:highfive:

[Bodzilla]

i can never hi five phopo in his special place when i want to.

stupid anti-rep-circling communism steppin on mah dreamz dawg. yo feelin' me?

[Mr Buckshot]

The technology to power our cars on something other than oil has been there for years, but the oil companies will do everything in their power to block this tech from reaching the market. Just look at how GM killed the EV.

[Rob Oplawar]

The technology to send us all to the moon has been there for years, too. Don't be such a moron.

[Phopojijo]

The technology to send us all to the moon has been there for years, too. Don't be such a moron.You're right... and there hasn't been any demand to fly to the moon either...

[Bad Waffle]

Holy shit phopo, you're pwning.

I've read a lot about these inventors who made vehicles that use a lot of really interesting ways of power, and as soon as the word gets out the car/oil companies try their hardest to buy the guys out. In this one case if anybody can remember, one inventor actually "disappeared" a little after a local news station did a little special on his car that didn't use petrol. I would believe it, oil barons with that much money with no connections to mafias or hired guns? Yea, thats like saying the government isn't hiding shit from us "for our own good".

[Rob Oplawar]

deliberately ignoring the point of my comparison =/= clever

I was saying the tech exists but it's no small task to make it cost-effective.
zomg the automakers are part of a secret society that kills anybody who figures out the obvious cheap efficient free energy machine that would put them out of business :tinfoil:

it's called hyperbole for fuck's sake

[Disaster]

deliberately ignoring the point of my comparison =/= clever

I was saying the tech exists but it's no small task to make it cost-effective.
zomg the automakers are part of a secret society that kills anybody who figures out the obvious cheap efficient free energy machine that would put them out of business :tinfoil:

it's called hyperbole for fuck's sake
^ This guys clever :raise:

[Mr Buckshot]

Holy shit phopo, you're pwning.

I've read a lot about these inventors who made vehicles that use a lot of really interesting ways of power, and as soon as the word gets out the car/oil companies try their hardest to buy the guys out. In this one case if anybody can remember, one inventor actually "disappeared" a little after a local news station did a little special on his car that didn't use petrol. I would believe it, oil barons with that much money with no connections to mafias or hired guns? Yea, thats like saying the government isn't hiding shit from us "for our own good".

LOL, this reminds me of that Keanu Reeves movie about how some successful alternate-energy clean reactor got bombed by a saboteur. Forgot its title >.<

Anyway it is possible to make alternate energy sources cost efficient. But America shouldn't start with passenger cars IMO - start with public transport. e.g. Make hydrogen fuel cell buses. It's ultra expensive to put hydrogen stations all over the country, but I don't think bus companies would have a problem putting a hydrogen supplier at the bus depots. Also put the technology into those trains that currently run on diesel.

Silicon Valley, where I lived once, has really lackluster public transport compared to many other places. I didn't see any public buses in San Jose or Cupertino or Sunnyvale. In fact Silicon Valley is probably the only place I've been where I would find it a total bitch to get around without owning a car, compared to NYC and its extensive subway system. As such, I think Silicon Valley, with all its money and open roads, should be the first place to set up a hydrogen public bus network.

As for electric cars, I know Tesla Motors is actually making them for the markets, but as with hydrogen fuel cell technology, it's impossible to set up charging stations in place of gas stations. Plus a battery takes a long time to recharge...