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Polamee
February 12th, 2009, 09:32 AM
I posted this on HM a while back, however, the discussion got off-topic, so I'm reposting it.

Ok, I was into Halo CE since the beginning of 08. That's not very long ago. But I've browsed through a large number of maps on the site, and noted what date those maps were created, and also their ratings. I've discovered that more recent maps have lower ratings than older maps of the same quality. For example, I noticed a map, called Open, a week or so ago. It was uploaded in 04 and had a 9.1 rating, as very few people had downloaded it ever since well, 04.

That map was bumped down to 6.8 in 2 days.

Majority of our players don't make maps. Perhaps they think making maps is an easy business and rate simple maps very lowly? Even from the beginning of 08 till now, there's a huge difference. Take this map:

War Ahead
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=4238

Its a good map, with custom weps, but only rated 3.6! In the beginning of 08 such a map would have gotten 7.2 or so.

Look through the HaloMaps archive and search for maps from 04-05. You'll find out that they have considerably higher ratings than if you posted maps currently.

Most players would say that certain maps are great because of custom weapons/vehicles. But think about it: Most of the tags are ripped. One person creates custom stuff, dosen't protect that map, and people start ripping like crazy. Find me one unprotected map where the author has created Cutom content and it has not been used in some other map?

IMO, its not the weapons, or the vehicles that matter. Its the gameplay. If its a symettric map, what advatnages/good positions does it have? If its Assymetric, how is each team advantaged? Weapon and vehicle placement is also important.

Also, can the map run on all gametypes and how well are the netgame flags placed? If the map runs on all types and the netgame flags are placed good, it should be a great map.

Think about this: For Halo, there are many interesting aspects of gameplay. You can have a map with Seraph fighter starships and Longswords and Scarabs and super weapons, BUT a simple, small close-quarters map with good weapon placement and great-close range gameplay can also achieve the same rating as yours.

In the end, these are the points to think about before rating a map:

How good is the gameplay?
-Does it support all gametypes?
-Does it have netgame flags placed well?
-Does it have manny different positions were you can snipe/hide?

How good are the weapons placed?
-Does it have weapons placed appropriately? A Shotgun is kind off useless in a large, open area, while useful in a small, cramped, short hallway.


Post what you think.

Pooky
February 12th, 2009, 10:56 AM
That map you posted is an Ice Fields variant, it's no surprise people don't like it :|

Con
February 12th, 2009, 11:09 AM
That map you posted is an Ice Fields variant, it's no surprise people don't like it :|
.

People like custom maps. The only exception would be chaosgulch, people seem to like that too. A few years ago, variants weren't done to death, and custom content was newer and more exciting.

Limited
February 12th, 2009, 11:27 AM
Old school maps only cared about one things, gameplay and thats why they rocked so much.

Most maps nowadays worry about graphics too much and disregard gameplay.

Inferno
February 12th, 2009, 04:23 PM
Portent and church. Great examples.

Con
February 12th, 2009, 08:27 PM
I disagree, those maps played well but nobody played them after release day. The common CE player isn't looking for traditional gameplay. I think the reasons coldsnap and hugeass were so popular were that the maps introduced large scale vehicle combat, something which had never been done before, and they appealed to the common CE player. Before, CE was more like PC. Players worked their way up to the top in traditional gameplay. Introducing a new way of playing the game made it easier for newer players to get used to the game. New players love vehicle combat, and it's not super hard to make kills with a jet or an assault rife that shoots rockets.

Inferno
February 12th, 2009, 08:31 PM
Church never played well in my opinion.

And I heard from a lot of people that portent was just a pistol wank map like BG.

Needles
February 12th, 2009, 09:51 PM
Church never played well in my opinion.

And I heard from a lot of people that portent was just a pistol wank map like BG.
Both were very fun maps. Church was great with flame throwers and assault rifles.

Also, not a huge fan of AI maps. I like maps made for just multiplayer with other people.

Pooky
February 12th, 2009, 10:00 PM
Church never played well in my opinion.

And I heard from a lot of people that portent was just a pistol wank map like BG.

Portent was, but a combination of clever level design and subtle tweaks to the other weapons meant that you could avoid all the pistol jerking if you really wanted to. Not my favorite map ever, but definitely a good one.

sevlag
February 13th, 2009, 11:33 AM
queit honestly, when I was new to CE, yoyorast island was the first custom map I went for, after the inital frustration of being spawn killed, falling off the edge by accident and more spawn camping.

I agree, people now a days prefer maps with overpowered weapons and supp'd up vehicles.

graphics are good, gameplay is better

NullZero
February 13th, 2009, 12:29 PM
When I first came on, hugeass was my best friend, then clans dragged me into traditional maps, whilst I followed the progess of Tiamat's coldsnap on Croc's forums (it was called something like that?).

Malloy
February 13th, 2009, 01:26 PM
Hey, Im more for 'art' and 'gameplay' coinciding in modern CE maps.
Old maps were awsome for gameplay but looked like some sort of trippy rave hangover experience. Especially luminous grass.

woop.

Rook
February 13th, 2009, 01:33 PM
And I heard from a lot of people that portent was just a pistol wank map like BG.
Oh. That's just good custom maps with classic weapons. :awesome:

DarkHalo003
February 13th, 2009, 07:14 PM
I don't think anyone will hate me if I Single-Playerify Portent PROPERLY will they?lol.

=sw=warlord
February 13th, 2009, 07:51 PM
I don't think anyone will hate me if I Single-Playerify Portent PROPERLY will they?lol.
I will hate you for eternity.
I am rather sure you will fuck up and make it fail somehow.

SnaFuBAR
February 13th, 2009, 07:59 PM
SP AI mods of mp maps always suck.

DarkHalo003
February 13th, 2009, 08:23 PM
SP AI mods of mp maps always suck.
Not exactly. There can be some adjustments to the maps and make it really good if done properly. It mainly depends on how well it's done and how it's done. Even some MP Map mods can be good. I'm also not just going to make Portent the only SP map of the scenario. IT will be linked to many other levels as well.

Inferno
February 14th, 2009, 11:29 AM
Ah good old completely impossible retribution.



Dark don't do it you will fail like a miserable slug. Unless you are like a amazing scripter (which you are not) then this will fail.

sdavis117
February 14th, 2009, 11:34 AM
SP AI mods of mp maps always suck.

Yes, but they are the first step in the next step for Halo CE Modding: Successful Single Player Campaigns (and levels). It's just like how HMT was the first step to custom maps on Halo PC (and CE), these sucky single player mods are just a first step to something better.

Hopefully.

Sel
February 14th, 2009, 01:27 PM
SP AI mods of mp maps always suck.

I had fun on that GHP danger canyon thing a while back, whatever it was called. :S

UnevenElefant5
February 14th, 2009, 08:49 PM
I think Polamee got it right with the fact that many people just play the maps, then realize there's no cool weapon in it and rate it a 1. They don't know how much time you spent agonizing over fixing errors and planning the layout and beta testing and all the rest of that.

DarkHalo003
February 15th, 2009, 04:01 PM
I had fun on that GHP danger canyon thing a while back, whatever it was called. :S
This. I liked playing that level. Always had some fun value to it.

I'm talking about using the BSPs in a chain. The campaign would have a story. But why am I telling you old people? All y'all do is talk pessimism. I'm too youthful for your old ways. :P

If it sucks, I'll drop it. Common sense kicks in when something doesn't go right.

You can learn how to script fairly well in a decent amount of time.

SnaFuBAR
February 15th, 2009, 04:33 PM
Ah, i was under the impression that it was strictly on portent. Hopefully you can prove me wrong, but the idea still seems mediocre, as MP maps are far off from sp map designs.

Disaster
February 15th, 2009, 04:38 PM
Hmm. At first thought it doesn't seem fun but thats what I thought about the Dangercanyon map before I played it. Who knows, maybe you could pull it off.

Apoc4lypse
February 15th, 2009, 05:09 PM
Either way its going to need less :words: talk and moar :f5: button pushing.

I'd agree with maps being underated nowadays though, but its not exactly something thats going to change too easily any time soon, not amoung the people who kno how stuff is meant to be made anyway.

Sel
February 16th, 2009, 12:37 AM
Ah, i was under the impression that it was strictly on portent. Hopefully you can prove me wrong, but the idea still seems mediocre, as MP maps are far off from sp map designs.

Which is probably why that's the only modded multiplayer map turned single player I like.

The result is always a lot better if you make your own BSP, and gives you fucktonnes of freedom that a map designed for multiplayer simply will not have.