Radeon HD 4750 40nm

[343guiltymc]

http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+RV740+Performance+Figures+Leaked/article14417.htm
Sweet, wonders if it consumes less power than the 4830 and 4850.

[RobertGraham]

...MSRP for RV740-based graphics cards is expected to be $99 USD...FUCK YEAH

[Warsaw]

Hell yes. I wonder if they will release I high-end version using this process, with the full 800 stream processors and 256-bit memory bus.

[Amit]

YEAHHHH!!! The tech in the tech talk is back! Stuff like this was why I was so hooked in on this section of the forum in the first place. Then, it got all shitted up with lamo crap.

Ontopic: BETWEEN HD4830 and HD4850? Fuck...time to get in on the HD4000 series. I've been delaying but no more shall I feel the burn of a gap in my pocket!

E: wait...128-bit memory interface? PHAILLL. well as long as the performance is great, i'm fucking gravy for it.

[Warsaw]

The 4830 is already a beast of a card. The 4850 is the mainstream graphics, and is even better. If the 4750 is between the two, then it will certainly perform well, though for $100 you might as well go all the way and grab an HD4850.

[343guiltymc]

I'm so getting this, if it comes with that Zalman fan as the reference cooler.
Mobile versions: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/amd_goes_mobile_with_40nm_process_announces_ati_mo bility_radeon_hd_4860_and_hd_4830

[Amit]

The 4830 is already a beast of a card. The 4850 is the mainstream graphics, and is even better. If the 4750 is between the two, then it will certainly perform well, though for $100 you might as well go all the way and grab an HD4850.

No, because most HD 4850s are still upwards of $200 in Canada.

[Warsaw]

Doesn't matter, because it's US prices hat set the graphics card price trends, not what's in Canada.

[343guiltymc]

It looks like to me this card is going to replace the 4830 and compete with the Nvidia GTS 240.

[Amit]

Doesn't matter, because it's US prices hat set the graphics card price trends, not what's in Canada.

Right, but you're talking to the general public so don't assume we all buy stuff from the United States.

[Varmint260]

Yep. The computer shop I go to in town has a 4850, labelled as $201.99. Heck, that same card at Futureshop is $269.99. Even ordering online, though... way more money off of some Canadian websites than is necessary, given the current exchange rates.

[Warsaw]

Even from NewEgg, the price difference on this range of cards (HD4830) is generally not more than $10 to $25. And I do regularly browse the Canadian side, since a lot of the people that seem to be upgrading on Modacity are in Canada. That is not much of a difference next to the total amount of the upgrade in the first place, and as such it would be better to wait for the next paycheck to get what you want instead of skimping because you want to upgrade right this instant.

[343guiltymc]

It looks like 4850 and 4870 are both going to take a price drop, with the 4750 and 4890 coming out next month.

[Warsaw]

Is it 4890 or 4880? The 40nm GDDR5 revision to the HD4850 is the HD4860, which leads me to believe that the same revision to the HD4870 will be called the HD4880.

[343guiltymc]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2279105
Pretty sure it's the 4890.

[Amit]

Is it 4890 or 4880? The 40nm GDDR5 revision to the HD4850 is the HD4860, which leads me to believe that the same revision to the HD4870 will be called the HD4880.

It's 4890. The 4860 only exists as the technologically improved mobility counterpart to the 4850.

[Warsaw]

Ok, just checking. I knew the Mobility HD4860 was mobility (and so is the 4850), but I wasn't sure if that would carry over onto desktops as well.

You know what AMD should've added to this revision? 512-bit memory bus. That would increase the bandwidth, putting them on par with nVidia (and surpassing them with the GDDR5) in this regard. I think we might see some relatively significant performance gains at higher resolutions with a broader bus.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/88463/ATI_Radeon_HD_4890_512_MB_GDDR5_in_Pretty_Pixels.h tml
Hopefully, this would bring the 4870 prices down a notch.

[Warsaw]

It will, though 4870 prices are already considerably low.

[343guiltymc]

A lot of the 4870s are still 300 CAD here, which is way out of my reach.

[Warsaw]

Well that's a bummer. I still don't understand why CAD prices are so disproportionately high compared to USD prices...CAD is only $0.27 less than $1 USD.

[343guiltymc]

Hmmm it seems the "price drop" for the 4870 is in form of MIR......

[Warsaw]

It will be integrated into an Instant Savings not too long from now, but hey, money saving is money saving amirite?

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/88546/Radeon_HD_4890_3DMark_Performance_Revealed.html
Is this similar to the 4870 performance?

[itszutak]

http://www.techpowerup.com/88546/Radeon_HD_4890_3DMark_Performance_Revealed.html
Is this similar to the 4870 performance?
Better performance. Similar to an nVidia 285 GTX.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Radeon-4830-RV740,7324.html
Sweet

[Amit]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Radeon-4830-RV740,7324.html
Sweet

Dick move. Either they are stopping production on the 4850 altogether, they're gonna chuck out the crapped out 4850 boards, or just make sure they don't fuck up the 4850 boards during the manufacturing process.

[Warsaw]

You mean that they are stopping the 4830, right? The 4850 is still around to stay.

[343guiltymc]

Don't see why they should, unless there is a new card that will offer same performance as the 4850.

[Amit]

You mean that they are stopping the 4830, right? The 4850 is still around to stay.

4830s are crapped out 4850 boards (did they actually start producing 4830 boards that weren't fucked 4850 boards? tl;dr). If there are no 4830s they did one of the three:

1. Stopped production on 4850s.
2. Don't fuck up the 4850 manufacturing process to even create potential for 4830 boards.
3. Gonna keep producing 4850s and chucking out the messed up boards (would otherwise be turned into 4830s).

[Warsaw]

Assuming they are killing the 4850:

If the HD4770 performs better than the current HD4850, then perhaps that will replace the 4850.

Alternatively, with the HD4890 coming out, the HD4870 will occupy the same role as the HD4850 does now, which makes GDDR5 a standard across all of ATi's upper-range cards.

[343guiltymc]

So from what I can see the 4770 is going to be equipped with 512 GDDR5 memory, does that make it as good as a 4870?

[Warsaw]

No, because it only has 640 shaders compared to the 800 of the 4850 and 4870. My guess is that 4750s will be crippled/messed up HD4770s.

The HD4770 will be around $130 and will compete with the GTS240. The HD4750 will be $100 and compete with the 9600GT/9800GT. That kind of gives an estimate of the performance.

[Amit]

No, because it only has 640 shaders compared to the 800 of the 4850 and 4870. My guess is that 4750s will be crippled/messed up HD4770s.

The HD4770 will be around $130 and will compete with the GTS240. The HD4750 will be $100 and compete with the 9600GT/9800GT. That kind of gives an estimate of the performance.

Holy fuck. If you can believe it, graphics card identifications just got kicked up a whole new notch of confusion for the novice user.

[Warsaw]

No, because these aren't occupying a role already filled by another card from the same camp. The HD4830 will be supplanted by the HD4750, and a mid point between that and the 4850 is the HD4770. If the consumer just follows the numbers up, he/she will end up where he/she wants. The only confusion I can see is between the HD4770 and HD4850, since they are equal in price. Hell, they might even be equal in performance, but we don't know anything yet...if they are, then the 4850 will be ousted replaced with the newer card, removing that redundancy. That, or fudged HD4890 cards will be rebranded as HD4860s or what have you and occupy the "mainstream" role the 4850 has enjoyed since its inception.

With nVidia, you have overlapping cards. An example would be the 9800GT and 8800GT being equal, with the 9600GT being just a hair under in performance. Price point is also similar, which creates a conundrum. 9800GTX+ and GTS250 are the same card...the whole GT100 and GTS200 naming schemes are confusing for everybody.

[Amit]

No, because these aren't occupying a role already filled by another card from the same camp. The HD4830 will be supplanted by the HD4750, and a mid point between that and the 4850 is the HD4770. If the consumer just follows the numbers up, he/she will end up where he/she wants. The only confusion I can see is between the HD4770 and HD4850, since they are equal in price. Hell, they might even be equal in performance, but we don't know anything yet...if they are, then the 4850 will be ousted replaced with the newer card, removing that redundancy. That, or fudged HD4890 cards will be rebranded as HD4860s or what have you and occupy the "mainstream" role the 4850 has enjoyed since its inception.

With nVidia, you have overlapping cards. An example would be the 9800GT and 8800GT being equal, with the 9600GT being just a hair under in performance. Price point is also similar, which creates a conundrum. 9800GTX+ and GTS250 are the same card...the whole GT100 and GTS200 naming schemes are confusing for everybody.

I was talking about the nVidia system, mainly.

[Bodzilla]

Well that's a bummer. I still don't understand why CAD prices are so disproportionately high compared to USD prices...CAD is only $0.27 less than $1 USD.

probably closer to 700-800 dollars in australia.

Yay for importers!

[Warsaw]

I was talking about the nVidia system, mainly.

Ah, gotcha. I thought you were talking about the AMD system, which isn't really all that confusing at all (by design).

[Amit]

Ah, gotcha. I thought you were talking about the AMD system, which isn't really all that confusing at all (by design).

As you said, just follow the numbers and you'll be fine. I should not be so general next time.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/88621/GeForce_GTX_275_a_Non-Reference_Design_Launch_Coincides_With_Radeon_HD_4 890.html

[Amit]

http://www.techpowerup.com/88621/GeForce_GTX_275_a_Non-Reference_Design_Launch_Coincides_With_Radeon_HD_4 890.html

Wow, look at the nVidia fanboy comments on that article. A whole lot of them do not use proper spelling, grammar, or logic so I find it very hard to take them seriously.

[343guiltymc]

At least there is not a reference design this time around, I'm tired of how a lot of the Nvidia cards are look alike except for the logos and box. At for the Nvidia fanboys, well there are ATi fanboys too.

[Amit]

The ATi fanboys usually have more logic to their posts, though.

[Warsaw]

Heh, I saw that.

Whatever the case, the end result is good for the buyer, since it means lower prices and better cards. I don't think nVidia is used to having it this close, since it hasn't been for a long time.

[343guiltymc]

When are they making new low and mid end cards? It's pretty lame they are just rebranding their previous generations cards for them.

[Warsaw]

GTX300 series is due out either Q3 or 4 of this year, however the ATi HD5870 (RV870) is due out late June. If I were you, I'd wait for one or the other, because upgrading now is like shooting yourself in the foot.

[343guiltymc]

Rofl that's what people told me this time last year, and here I am still without a upgrade. Are they going to support DX11?

[Warsaw]

Yes, both are going to support Direct X 11. Both will also use GDDR5. Both are also built on the 40nm process.

Here's something to put the performance gain in perspective: The RV770 has 800 stream processors. Now, the RV870 more than doubles that with 2000 stream processors. Actual performance gain may not be 100% more than the RV770, but I think it's safe to say that it will be very noticeable.

[Varmint260]

Someone wanna give an educated guess as to what wattage PSU would be a minimum for an RV870 in a decent machine? I'm guessing with the 40nm design, it won't be too incredible... but still, with over double the stream processors?

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/88977/Radeon_HD_4750_Gets_First_Listing.html

[Warsaw]

Someone wanna give an educated guess as to what wattage PSU would be a minimum for an RV870 in a decent machine? I'm guessing with the 40nm design, it won't be too incredible... but still, with over double the stream processors?

450 watts should be in the safe zone.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,679522/Test-Ati-Radeon-HD-4890-Erste-Benchmarks-mit-Crysis-und-Far-Cry-2-OC-Heaven/Grafikkarte/News/
WTF it's actually slower than the 4870 1GB which is priced lower?!

[LlamaMaster]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,679522/Test-Ati-Radeon-HD-4890-Erste-Benchmarks-mit-Crysis-und-Far-Cry-2-OC-Heaven/Grafikkarte/News/
WTF it's actually slower than the 4870 1GB which is priced lower?!
Awesome news for me! Now I don't have to worry about my purchase. :iamafag:

[itszutak]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,679522/Test-Ati-Radeon-HD-4890-Erste-Benchmarks-mit-Crysis-und-Far-Cry-2-OC-Heaven/Grafikkarte/News/
WTF it's actually slower than the 4870 1GB which is priced lower?!
It outperforms it at the resolution that matters for me.

[Amit]

GTX300 series is due out either Q3 or 4 of this year, however the ATi HD5870 (RV870) is due out late June. If I were you, I'd wait for one or the other, because upgrading now is like shooting yourself in the foot.

You can keep waiting or you can stop listening to everybody and go get yourself a cheap video card now. Everything decent you buy now will last at least another 2 years with tweaking here and there later on. New cards keep coming out every few months; what is the point in waiting? DirectX 11? lol, they have barely done anything with DirectX 10/10.1 yet.


http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,679522/Test-Ati-Radeon-HD-4890-Erste-Benchmarks-mit-Crysis-und-Far-Cry-2-OC-Heaven/Grafikkarte/News/
WTF it's actually slower than the 4870 1GB which is priced lower?!

It outperforms the 4870 at all the resolutions that do matter. Especially in Far Cry 2, not that I would play that game. Seriously, you are doing something wrong if you have a 4870/4890 if you're still using a monitor at 1280x1024 resolution.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/89046/RV790_Reaches_1.00_GHz_Indicates_Overclocked_SKUs_ in_the_Making.html

[Amit]

http://www.techpowerup.com/89046/RV790_Reaches_1.00_GHz_Indicates_Overclocked_SKUs_ in_the_Making.html

Holy shit. 1GHz Clock speed? I wonder how hot the thing gets.

[Warsaw]

You can keep waiting or you can stop listening to everybody and go get yourself a cheap video card now. Everything decent you buy now will last at least another 2 years with tweaking here and there later on. New cards keep coming out every few months; what is the point in waiting? DirectX 11? lol, they have barely done anything with DirectX 10/10.1 yet.

It's not so much the fact that it's new and can do DX11 as much as it is that it's two months out. Cards that are cheap now will be cheaper then too, so it's a win-win. situation if you wait just a little bit. You can get a great performer now, or wait two months and get a fantastic performer for the same price. What we have now are refreshed versions of the last generation with the next generation on the door step...last gen's cards will only last you about a year because the games are getting increasingly more demanding. If you get one of the new one's, you get double the life (enthusiast-end solutions have a 6-month product cycle, while lower end ones get a year).

[Amit]

Dream all you want. New video card releases are never the same or lower in price as the one it's replacing.

[Warsaw]

No, but the current ones will be much cheaper, and the current ones that are expensive now will be at the price you would pay for the lower models of the same generation. That's the point. $100 for an HD4830 now, or $100 for an HD4870 in two months?

[Amit]

No, but the current ones will be much cheaper, and the current ones that are expensive now will be at the price you would pay for the lower models of the same generation. That's the point. $100 for an HD4830 now, or $100 for an HD4870 in two months?

THe 4870 won't go down that much. If anything, it'll be the 4850 that dips down to $100. And I don't think the 4850 will go down that far because the 4750 is supposed to be sold at that price point.

[343guiltymc]

They don't seem to be selling the the 512 mb version of the 4870 now, and the now there is the 2GB 4870.....

[Warsaw]

THe 4870 won't go down that much. If anything, it'll be the 4850 that dips down to $100. And I don't think the 4850 will go down that far because the 4750 is supposed to be sold at that price point.

For now. Those prices they gave are not taking into account the release of the HD5800 series. Those prices fit into the current lineup.

[Bodzilla]

dam where already at the next generation?

i'm starting to feel like an old man yelling at whippersnappers on their dam skateboards on my lawn.
But i digress.

i'm already 2 generations behind :smith:

but i still max out anything i play so Heh.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/89158/Single-PCB_GeForce_GTX_295_in_the_Works.html

[InnerGoat]

The king of cards gets a redesign a few months before it's replaced heh.

[Warsaw]

At least that keeps it competitively priced. Seriously, this is nothing but win for the consumer.

[Hotrod]

What? The HD5800 series is already coming out? Damn, my HD4850 feels really outdated now... :(

[Warsaw]

Your 4850 feels outdated? Some of us are still using GeForce 7 cards or older...you are fine for awhile longer.

[Varmint260]

Up until a month or so ago, I ran on GeForce 6 series integrated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 4850 isn't really outdated until the 5850 has settled into the market at the same price the 4850 used to occupy, right?

[Jean-Luc]

Heh, just wait until GFX cards start coming out with embedded AMD Firestorm chips. Then you'll REALLY feel outdated :p

[Mr Buckshot]

What? The HD5800 series is already coming out? Damn, my HD4850 feels really outdated now... :(

It may no longer be the new thing but there's no DirectX11 yet, so it's ok, relax :P Your hardware > mine anyway and mine is no slouch. Out of curiosity, fellow Canadian, did you use NCIX or the newly launched Newegg.ca?

Trust me, the Geforce 8800GTX is nearly 3 years old now and it still maxes out everything that's been released so far.

At one point I did have a desktop with an 8800GT though but it's been "donated" to my dad's office. The 8800GT is old stuff now but is still a very strong balance of performance and price.

40nm manufacturing process? *drools*

[Amit]

Up until a month or so ago, I ran on GeForce 6 series integrated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 4850 isn't really outdated until the 5850 has settled into the market at the same price the 4850 used to occupy, right?

You people can't seem to tell the difference between outclassed and outdated. Outdated (obsolete) is when you can no longer use the card for new games due to performance issues or simply being locked out by the developers. Outclassed is where a newer and improved model of the same card or a whole new card altogether is created and replaces the old one. The HD5800 series is merely replacing the 4800 series in terms of performance and technology. That's not to say the older hardware cannot compete with the newer hardware or play games at the full experience.

So before you start raising hell that something will be outdated in a year of its release, think about what software and technology is actually being taken advantage now. I'm running a Radeon X1600 PRO from 2005 and I can still play new games that come out at medium-high settings.


It may no longer be the new thing but there's no DirectX11 yet, so it's ok, relax :P Your hardware > mine anyway and mine is no slouch. Out of curiosity, fellow Canadian, did you use NCIX or the newly launched Newegg.ca?

Trust me, the Geforce 8800GTX is nearly 3 years old now and it still maxes out everything that's been released so far.

At one point I did have a desktop with an 8800GT though but it's been "donated" to my dad's office. The 8800GT is old stuff now but is still a very strong balance of performance and price.

40nm manufacturing process? *drools*

This. Completely.

[Varmint260]

Thanks for that clarification, Amit. I was just thinking out loud, mkay? And what do you mean, "you people"? I wasn't complaining :(

[343guiltymc]

Why are you guys complaining I'm stuck with a shitty X1300 PRO which was crap even when it came out. Also, the 4890 maybe coming out on April 2nd: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/rumor_amd_release_ati_hd_4890_earlier_expected

[Hotrod]

Oh, I know that my card is still quite good and all, but I only got my card last summer, when it used to be the best of the best, and now that I see so many coming out... it's just a little strange, you know?

[Warsaw]

Yeah...to be honest, the 4850 almost seems redundant, since the HD4870 is right on top of it in terms of price.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/89425/GeForce_GTX_275_Gets_First_Listing.html
God, how can they be still releasing 200 and 4000 series cards when new generation of cards are suppose to come out around the summer?

[Martini-562]

Guiltymc, I feel your pain. I've got the same card D:

I want to get a new ATI 4870 x2 card but I don't have the money yet...

Although I must say, the 4890 looks pretty nice.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/89713/Radeon_HD_4770_Pictured_Slated_for_May.html
Damn, too bad it's dual slot, or I would definably buy it.

[Amit]

The two slot solution was kind of expected. Also, why wouldn't you buy it? not enough space?

It looks awesome with the new black theme:

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-03-31/52a.jpg

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-03-31/52b.jpg

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-03-31/52c.jpg

[Warsaw]

Snazzy looking...can't rep you though...:(...

[Amit]

Surely,you don't +rep people simply because they provide links and pictures.

[343guiltymc]

I can't use a double bracket card, because of the way the video card is placed in a Dell BTX case.

[Warsaw]

Surely,you don't +rep people simply because they provide links and pictures.

When it's like that and I'm in an exceptionally good mood, I do. :p

Also, I'm surprised you can use a full-size card at all in a BTX case.

[343guiltymc]

Well I don't know, I've measure the dimensions in the case and there seems to be enough space.

[itszutak]

When it's like that and I'm in an exceptionally good mood, I do. :p

Also, I'm surprised you can use a full-size card at all in a BTX case.
My old Dell had a two-slot card that took up more room than I have in my Antec 300. BTX has a good amount of room.

[343guiltymc]

My old Dell had a two-slot card that took up more room than I have in my Antec 300. BTX has a good amount of room.

What model were you using? Dell desktops vary in design.

[Warsaw]

My old Dell had a two-slot card that took up more room than I have in my Antec 300. BTX has a good amount of room.

It's not so much of a lack of room as it is a problem with Layout...most BTX cases I've seen can only use Low-Profile add-in cards.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ati-radeon-gpu-graphics,7531.html
Huh, 1 ghz clock speed......

[itszutak]

It's not so much of a lack of room as it is a problem with Layout...most BTX cases I've seen can only use Low-Profile add-in cards.Most XPS cases I've seen (full ones) use BTX. I know my old XPS 400 did.

[Warsaw]

Well, I've mostly seen Hewlett-Packard BTXes...needless to say, they suck. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever run across a Dell BTX. HP is dominant in this area.

[343guiltymc]

Urh, hate to bump this thread but don't really feel like making a new one. http://www.techpowerup.com/96859/AMD_Readying_Radeon_HD_4790_Based_on_RV790.html
So there is two new cards coming out, the 40 nm 4730 and the 55nm 4790. Honestly why are they introducing so many new cards if the first DX11 cards suppose to be out in the summer.

[Warsaw]

By the end of this month is when the 5800 was supposed to be out. Doesn't look like it anymore.

[Varmint260]

Great, a 4730 and 4790... so with more different types of 4700 cards, I might actually stumble upon one that just happens to be in stock at Newegg! Nah, just kidding. Though I'm interested that they haven't been able to build enough cards on the 40nm die so they're creating more 55nm cards in the 4700 series.

[NullZero]

Damn, that HD 4790 will beat my 4850. Time for me to get a 4890 soon lol

e: or wait for the 5000 series

[343guiltymc]

http://ht4u.net/reviews/2009/powercolor_ati_radeon_hd_4730/
Wait, the 4730 uses TWO 6 pin connections, yet performances below cards that only require one like the 4830?!

[Rook]

I just got a 4850 with my computer lol

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/98156/GeForce_G_210_and_GT_220_Surface.html
Wait a minute, the DX11 GPUs won't coming until 2010? And why are the "new" GPUs released worse than their current counterparts?

[Cojafoji]

I just got a 4850 with my computer lol
this is why is pays to only upgrade every three years. C'MON DX11.

[Rook]

this is why is pays to only upgrade every three years. C'MON DX11.

I waited 5 years, not 3.

whoop.

[Cojafoji]

I waited 5 years, not 3.

whoop.
oh lawdy i gots pwnd by your superior wait.

[Warsaw]

http://www.techpowerup.com/98156/GeForce_G_210_and_GT_220_Surface.html
Wait a minute, the DX11 GPUs won't coming until 2010? And why are the "new" GPUs released worse than their current counterparts?

No idea anymore, they've been switching it all up these past couple of months...

Also, the new chips are not worse, they are replacements for certain niche markets; the 4770 replaces the 4830 (and is just as good as it) market and the 4890 is the new enthusiast single-GPU solution for ATi. As for the supposed 4790, not a clue.

[Amit]

Damn, that HD 4790 will beat my 4850. Time for me to get a 4890 soon lol

e: or wait for the 5000 series

Just because a new card comes out that outperforms your current card, it doesn't mean you have to replace it. Especially with a card that comes out just a year and a bit after yours did.


http://ht4u.net/reviews/2009/powercolor_ati_radeon_hd_4730/
Wait, the 4730 uses TWO 6 pin connections, yet performances below cards that only require one like the 4830?!

Translation (http://translate.google.ca/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fht4u.net%2Freviews%2F2009%2Fpowerco lor_ati_radeon_hd_4730%2F&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0=)


this is why is pays to only upgrade every three years. C'MON DX11.

I've been using this X1600PRO in two different computers for 4 years.

[Warsaw]

Actually, a card that comes out a year after one you just bought usually outperforms the older one by a huge margin. See HD3870 vs. HD4870, 7800GTX vs. 8800GTX, or GTX280 vs. 8800 GTX. Only the 9800 GX2 held its own against the GTX280.

As for longevity, I'm still using my 7800GT, which I got in late 2005, with no plans to upgrade it anytime soon. Ah, the golden era of nVidia graphics...

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4730/
Wtf, it consumes more power than a 4870?

[Cojafoji]

I've been using this X1600PRO in two different computers for 4 years.
Used a Radeon 9000 for 6 years. suck on that.

[Amit]

Actually, a card that comes out a year after one you just bought usually outperforms the older one by a huge margin.

Who said that's a reason to replace your old one? Only if you want to have the better performance in games and if you're headed that way you might as well go for the best thing available. The point is, if your card can run Crysis on High settings at 1400x1050 at least, then you don't need to update your card for the time being. lol not unless you want to play ARMA2.

For years people have been making compromises with video settings to get the balance between performance and visual quality at the midrange level.
Seeing as we're talking about midrange cards, yoiu should take into consideration that these cards are relatively cheap and can be switched out often, even though a lot of the time the new series of midrange card only provides marginal increases in performance rendering upgrading useless anyways.


Used a Radeon 9000 for 6 years. suck on that.

What model? Was your choice not to upgrade.

[FRain]

Please come out with AGP..... pleaseeee. i beg of you.....
lol, i still use agp >_>

[343guiltymc]

Please come out with AGP..... pleaseeee. i beg of you.....
lol, i still use agp >_>
Even if the those cards come out for AGP, it's only going to be seriously bottle necked by whatever CPU you use for AGP mobos. Even something like a 9800 GT is seriously being bottlenecked by my crappy Pentium D 915.

[Varmint260]

What you guys think, would a 4770 pair quite nicely with my processor (AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ 2.90GHz Brisbane) without too much bottlenecking?

[343guiltymc]

What you guys think, would a 4770 pair quite nicely with my processor (AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ 2.90GHz Brisbane) without too much bottlenecking?
You're better off with the 4850, they are cheaper than the 4770 right now. Now to mention that most online retailer seems to be short on 4770 right now, especially in Canada.

[Varmint260]

I didn't notice the 4850 being that much cheaper, but I definitely did notice that the 4770 seems to be out of stock all the time on Newegg.ca.

Maybe you're right. As long as I can run a 4850 1GB on a PSU that runs 24A on the 12V rail. I was looking at some of the 4870s, but I doubt I can power one of them with that rail.

[Warsaw]

4770, 4850, it really makes no difference, since performance is just about the same. Also, that CPU is not too far gone to do it, so I say go for it.

[343guiltymc]

Man, what's up with the whole laundry list of refreshed video cards lately? Where the hell are the DX11 apps and hardware? The video cards aren't coming out until next year and Dirt 2 is the only confirmed to support DX11.....

[k4is3rxkh40s]

I didn't notice the 4850 being that much cheaper, but I definitely did notice that the 4770 seems to be out of stock all the time on Newegg.ca.

Maybe you're right. As long as I can run a 4850 1GB on a PSU that runs 24A on the 12V rail. I was looking at some of the 4870s, but I doubt I can power one of them with that rail.


If I remember correctly the cheapest 4770 on newegg (US mind you) was $109.99 IF you could find it in stock. For a 512 MB 4850 I got mine for about $94 including $9 second-day shipping and it came with a free HDMI cable, too (Was supposed to come with a 10 dollar rebate, but going by the reviews of it, I'm not gonna count on it). Just quickly looked at the same one I got, and for now it's at $99.99 without the HDMI cable, but in any case it's still $10 cheaper than the cheapest 4770.

[Phopojijo]

http://www.techpowerup.com/98156/GeForce_G_210_and_GT_220_Surface.html
Wait a minute, the DX11 GPUs won't coming until 2010? And why are the "new" GPUs released worse than their current counterparts?Cheap laptop integrated GPUs?

[343guiltymc]

Cheap laptop integrated GPUs?
They're not, but performance is about that. They are basically 40 NM versions of the 6800 GT with DX10 capability, from what I've heard. :(

[Warsaw]

6800GT? I assume you meant 8600GT, right? Otherwise, you're four generations off.

[Bodzilla]

this is why is pays to only upgrade every three years. C'MON DX11.

pretty much this. i upgraded a year and a half ago and i still run all the games i play max.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/101730/ATI__Evergreen__Promises_You_Won_t_Believe_Your_Ey es.html
Damn...........

[Amit]

Well September 10th Release for First DX10. I'm still waiting for that random Chinese reference card leak that always happens :)

[Warsaw]

Well September 11th Release for First DX10. I'm still waiting for that random Chinese reference card leak that always happens :)

Fixed that for you. :D

This is good news, because that means we'll see DX11 laptops around the end of Q2 2010, which means I'll finally be able to get one.

[343guiltymc]

Hopefully the mobile versions will be more powerful this time, and not equivilent in performance to desktop cards one generation previous.

[Warsaw]

Well, they will never be equal to the concurrent desktop cards because they can't use so much juice and they can't get too hot. The current Mobility HD4800 series is the same architecture as the desktop cards, but they are underclocked by a large margin to stay within the power and heat requirements. Overclock them, and you've got the same card, but a fried notebook. nVidia, on the other hand, is guilty of rebranding smaller, more efficient, underclocked, desktop GeForce 8 cards as GTX200 mobile cards.

[343guiltymc]

They can put in desktop i7 CPUs into high end gaming desktop replacements, but not decent video cards? What puts me off of these gaming laptops is that you cannot upgrade their GPUs, making me have to buy a new one if my components get outdated from new generation of cards.

[Warsaw]

You actually can upgrade GPUs in higher-end notebooks. Google "MXM." It's pretty much a mobile PCI-e standard. Just be mindful of the heat and power requirements, since you can't exactly change thsoe on a notebook.

Also, the i7 notebook only has one GTX280M, where as the last computer using the same chassis and desktop Core 2 Duos/Quads had two 9800M GTX in SLI. That tells you right there that they were on the edge for heat. The GPUs are also underpowered, which is how they save heat.

[343guiltymc]

Is there any game besides Dirt 2 that's going to support DX11? I would hate to think that a arcade racing game is going to be the first DX11 game released, and not a PC oriented game.

[jngrow]

So is DX10 basically the failed direct X that we are skipping? Like Vista, the failed OS that is being skipped (I personally am fine with Vista)?

[=sw=warlord]

Is there any game besides Dirt 2 that's going to support DX11? I would hate to think that a arcade racing game is going to be the first DX11 game released, and not a PC oriented game.
Crysis 2 will probably support DX11

[Amit]

So is DX10 basically the failed direct X that we are skipping? Like Vista, the failed OS that is being skipped (I personally am fine with Vista)?

What the fuck? DirectX10 wasn't used much, given the potential of DX9, but it certainly wasn't a failure. Same goes for Windows Vista. Well, since you say that you are fine with Vista, I'll assume you meant that the general tone is that Vista was a failure. Only three people will tell you that: Apple, Apple fanboys, and the ignorant.

[Warsaw]

Vista wasn't as successful as it could have been, but it wasn't exactly a failure. Most consumers use Vista, it's only in the business world where Vista didn't quite catch on.


Is there any game besides Dirt 2 that's going to support DX11? I would hate to think that a arcade racing game is going to be the first DX11 game released, and not a PC oriented game.

Starcraft II is supposedly going to support DX11, though with no LAN support I don't intend to get it.

[343guiltymc]

When did Blizzard say that? Hopefully whatever game to first support it will not be as disappointing as say, Lost Planet or Call of Juarez with DX10.

[Warsaw]

Ignore that bit, after looking it up on Wiki, it doesn't say it supports DX11...that was just me taking what some commenter on Tom's Hardware said to heart.

[343guiltymc]

http://www.techpowerup.com/102018/AMD__Juniper__ASIC_Pictured.html
So the first DX11 GPU won't be high end card?

[AAA]

Well, it takes 6 pins to power that thing? The 4770 takes only 4. Most likely will have GDDR5. I would say this would be near the mid-range card for DX11... I'm happy about the HDMI port and kind of the two DVI ports, but the display port aswell? Where's the S-Video? They mine as well add an S-Video in place of the second DVI port or something...

Just remember, this is a kind of reference model, it could most likely end up a little different in the end.

EDIT:
Is it the 5850? (I hate the numbers they put in these things...) : http://www.guru3d.com/news/photos-ati-juniper-radeon-hd-5850-surface/

[Warsaw]

Cypress is the high end one I thought (I dunno, don't keep up with code names). Also, just because it's smaller and uses less juice doesn't mean it isn't high end.

Fake E: ATi's video card naming scheme makes more sense than nVidia's...i.e. HD4850; It's a Generation 4, it has a high end marker (the 8) meaning its a performance card, and it's the more economical version, designated by the 50.As numbers go up, so does performance. The HD4770 is the only exception to this rule; it performs better than the 4830, yet has a lower number (because it has 640 SPs versus 800).

[343guiltymc]

Cypress is the high end one I thought (I dunno, don't keep up with code names). Also, just because it's smaller and uses less juice doesn't mean it isn't high end.

Fake E: ATi's video card naming scheme makes more sense than nVidia's...i.e. HD4850; It's a Generation 4, it has a high end marker (the 8) meaning its a performance card, and it's the more economical version, designated by the 50.As numbers go up, so does performance. The HD4770 is the only exception to this rule; it performs better than the 4830, yet has a lower number (because it has 640 SPs versus 800).
Some vendors like XFX and Albatron unlock the full 800 SPs on their 4830 cards so they can get more performance than competitors. In reality the performance increase is like 5-10%.

[Warsaw]

I know, I almost bought one of the XFX ones (mostly because it was single slot though). Stayed my hand because there are bigger things worth my money (and Newegg pulled them off the shelf). That 5-10% though is the difference between having something like AA and having to make do without.

[343guiltymc]

I would have bought one too, but it wouldn't work since my PSU don't come with any spare 6 pin or even molex for the adapters. Not that it matters anyways, since my CPU is being a huge bottleneck anways for the performance increase to be noticeable.

[Amit]

I would have bought one too, but it wouldn't work since my PSU don't come with any spare 6 pin or even molex for the adapters. Not that it matters anyways, since my CPU is being a huge bottleneck anways for the performance increase to be noticeable.

Edit your specs.