Noobie Tip: Don't release your first maps

[Con]

Now you're wondering, "what's this? I can do whatever I want!" Sure, but maybe you might want to take a few minutes to read the following before you prove it.

For any of you who are new to the forums and are considering making maps for Halo, or any other game for that matter, I have some advice for you. I mean no disrespect by using the term noobie, but this is some important advise that you should take note of (mentally, that is). As you've seen in the title, my advice to you, the novice, is not to release your first maps. When I say novice, however, I don't mean people who have had modeling experience but are new to Halo. It is perfectly acceptable for someone with experience to release their first few maps. Take it from me, my first map wasn't anything special, but I released it because I felt it was worthy. The question you need to ask yourself is, "is my map worthy?" Because it's your work, do not give yourself too much credit or praise. not only does this create a poor first impression, but you're fooling yourself into believing that you do not need improvement. Everyone needs improvement, because nobody is perfect. Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes better, which brings me to my next point. The whole point of your first maps is practice. There is no point in releasing practice material. It's like selling a peice of paper with some scribbles on it, where you've tried to learn how a variety of pencil lines look. Nobody will buy it. Never use the excuse that your first released map is poor because you're still a noobie. It doesn't fool us old-timers, you just chose not to practice first. Now, why should you care what we think about your map? There's more to consider than it being a waste of your time to release. It's also a waste of webspace. Poor Dennis at www.halomaps.org (http://www.halomaps.org) has to pay out of his pockey to host your first maps, make them count! So, before you go posting anything other than comments in that release forum, or run off uploading something to halomaps, consider what I've said and ask the question "is my map worthy?" This isn't a rule, just some honest advice I would like to give from observations I've made.

[HDoan]

Now you're wondering, "what's this? I can do whatever I want!" Sure, but maybe you might want to take a few minutes to read the following before you prove it.

For any of you who are new to the forums and are considering making maps for Halo, or any other game for that matter, I have some advice for you. I mean no disrespect by using the term noobie, but this is some important advise that you should take note of (metally, that is). As you've seen in the title, my advice to you, the novice, is not to release your first maps. When I say novice, however, I don't mean people who have had modeling experience but are new to Halo. It is perfectly acceptable for someone with experience to release their first few maps. Take it from me, my first map wasn't anything special, but I released it because I felt it was worthy. The question you need to ask yourself is, "is my map worthy?" Because it's your work, do not give yourself too much credit or praise. not only does this create a poor first impression, but you're fooling yourself into believing that you do not need improvement. Everyone needs improvement, because nobody is perfect. Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes better, which brings me to my next point. The whole point of your first maps is practice. There is no point in releasing practice material. It's like selling a peice of paper with some scribbles on it, where you've tried to learn how a variety of pencil lines look. Nobody will buy it. Never use the excuse that your first released map is poor because you're still a noobie. It doesn't fool us old-timers, you just chose not to practice first. Now, why should you care what we think about your map? There's more to consider than it being a waste of your time to release. It's also a waste of webspace. Poor Dennis at www.halomaps.org (http://www.halomaps.org) has to pay out of his pockey to host your first maps, make them count! So, before you go posting anything other than comments in that release forum, or run off uploading something to halomaps, consider what I've said and ask the question "is my map worthy?" This isn't a rule, just some honest advice I would like to give from observations I've made.
+rep:D
Im tired of seeing those small box maps with a small displace and they think its all good and shit. Oh wow they made a map in 5 minutes and they deserve high respect. A map shouldn't be done on the first day. The person should keep working on it and working on it and upload it some were else to test with there friends, so they can think of more things to add to game play like tunnels or caves. It doesn't matter if you used 10 minutes to make a map and you uploaded like 10 maps. Its only 10 maps yet your hardly getting downloads since its always mostly the same, its either a box with like 1-3 hills or a displace map that took no effort at all. Your getting like 10 downloads a map and there hardly going to be played, its better if you keep working on 1 map until you think its ready to be released. Would you like 10 downloads for 10 maps or work your hardest and bring your modeling skills to the test and at the end, you will be successful.

EDIT: this is what hard work and effort looks like http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=1796 this map is well worth the download
Now, which one looks funner the first one or this one http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=2372
If you choose the first one you are cool, if you choose the second one something is seriously messed up with you.
I think we have enough Bloodgulch virants like this http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=2051 theres single player for that. Theres like 1000 of the same virant uploaded, elite versus you or elite versus marine or what ever, i personally hate virants since the ai doesn't sync and because your only adding like vehicles and weapons to a map that might not belong there. I don't know about you but a pelican definetly doesn't belong in bloodgulch

[Varmint260]

For Conscars, +rep for that post. I know from experience releasing content for a racing game (and that's small-time in comparison to mapping for Halo) that making "tutorial" maps or vehicles for a game leads to all sorts of people angry that their time's been wasted. For the racing game I simply moved a dozen vertices or so on a 50-poly vehicle model, re-skinned it and released it as my own. BIG MISTAKE! I still have the scars...

Please people, don't repeat my mistakes. Practise, go through tutorials, maybe ask the experienced mappers a question or two (though in one thread, not fifty), and make sure what you're releasing is on par with what the community expects. PLEASE!

[Neuro Guro]

Also don't be a homo if you do , because no one loves homoes.

[Bad Waffle]

Now you're wondering, "what's this? I can do whatever I want!" Sure, but maybe you might want to take a few minutes to read the following before you prove it.

For any of you who are new to the forums and are considering making maps for Halo, or any other game for that matter, I have some advice for you. I mean no disrespect by using the term noobie, but this is some important advise that you should take note of (metally, that is). As you've seen in the title, my advice to you, the novice, is not to release your first maps. When I say novice, however, I don't mean people who have had modeling experience but are new to Halo. It is perfectly acceptable for someone with experience to release their first few maps. Take it from me, my first map wasn't anything special, but I released it because I felt it was worthy. The question you need to ask yourself is, "is my map worthy?" Because it's your work, do not give yourself too much credit or praise. not only does this create a poor first impression, but you're fooling yourself into believing that you do not need improvement. Everyone needs improvement, because nobody is perfect. Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes better, which brings me to my next point. The whole point of your first maps is practice. There is no point in releasing practice material. It's like selling a peice of paper with some scribbles on it, where you've tried to learn how a variety of pencil lines look. Nobody will buy it. Never use the excuse that your first released map is poor because you're still a noobie. It doesn't fool us old-timers, you just chose not to practice first. Now, why should you care what we think about your map? There's more to consider than it being a waste of your time to release. It's also a waste of webspace. Poor Dennis at www.halomaps.org (http://www.halomaps.org) has to pay out of his pockey to host your first maps, make them count! So, before you go posting anything other than comments in that release forum, or run off uploading something to halomaps, consider what I've said and ask the question "is my map worthy?" This isn't a rule, just some honest advice I would like to give from observations I've made.

wait, when did you become an oldtimer?

+rep for carrying my position (i used to do posts like this on gbx)

[Timo]

I was the coolest person on the block when I released my first map. (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=1504)

[Boba]

But Connor, I want to be popular! Quickly! How will I do this if I don't release my first map?
Hi Gunderstank!

[LlamaMaster]

+rep to you! Just like the rest of you I'm sick of seeing these crappy box maps. I wonder if people who release maps like that actually think they are going to get played...

[Sunray]

I don't think so. People who release boxmaps expect people to say "ooh isn't that good for a first time", give a bit of constructive criticism (like don't do a boxmap) and move on to either stop modding, more boxmaps or better things. Mostly the first two.
As for "this is my first time" I think it is the "good map for first time" line people look for. Maybe they might play it with their friends every so often for the pure novelty of playing their own map. I can see why. TBH most people don't have enough time or skill to map well. Myself included. This is why I mostly respect/admire/worship good mapmakers, but the other bit of me says "what the hell are or aren't they doing with their time". Mostly the admire thing. I wuv you most of you guys really. Takes great skill.
[/suckup]

[Con]

You released maps, Con? Where?
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=1585
I think it's decent for a first map, if a bit small.

[Boba]

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=1585
I think it's decent for a first map, if a bit small.
God, eh? I wish you would make another map, that one was fun.

[Neuro Guro]

I think if you release your first map , on these forums , then penalty should be Neuro takes them out for a nice seafood diner then gets to smack them in the face with his potato sack like scrotum , and never calls them back.

[TheGhost]

The first two maps I made were never released. There is a good reason for that. :p

My second actually wasn't that bad (I mean for the time and experience level), but it definitely didn't have anything special about it that warranted a release.

[TPE]

i beg to differ

my first map im making is in a alpha stage ATM and the wall textures are messed up

bassicly the map is a little smaller than huge ass, it has a snowy moutain plain and a valley down the middle of the map with one main bridge to go acrost, also a holo bridge but that only stays on for 8 seconds

in the final we will have many custom vehicles and weapons


here is our crappy outdated webpage, weapons section really need to be updated, the only h2 weapons will be a BR and carbine, maybe a worthless sword.

we really havent gone public with this till now. just wanted to say not all first maps are boxes

[Kornman00]

I believe you mean "mentally"? At least its not your first post :-3

EDIT: @ TPE, where exactly is "here"? I see no link.
And I think they're refering to first ever releases. As in, no prior releases of any sort for any game. And by yourself, not a team (which could be composed of brand newbians or talented people or both)

[Arteen]

I released my first (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=439) map and I turned out fine. I don't think there is anything so bad about releasing one's first map. Actually, I released my second (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=525) map too and lots of people liked it.

[TPE]

I believe you mean "mentally"? At least its not your first post :-3

EDIT: @ TPE, where exactly is "here"? I see no link.
And I think they're refering to first ever releases. As in, no prior releases of any sort for any game. And by yourself, not a team (which could be composed of brand newbians or talented people or both)sorry i was in a hurry i was in first period and it was almost over


http://pimpsatsea.bravehost.com/index.html

crappy but it works =\

also im working with my best friend that i go to school with so its easy to communicate and trade visual ideas

[DECOY]

Actually I would shorten the advice to "dont release your first map here."

I just went straight ahead and released my first map anyway because I
get by just fine as an outsider of the notoriously elitest, po-faced, bug up
the arse Halo CE community. I for one will miss it when it's gone on may
8th, but don't worry I'll be ok again by may 9th.

OMG, ONLY JOKING!!

real advice....It's a lot smarter to just post pics and seek advice on what
to do / not to do next. theres no reason to release a test map, which is
basically what a box map is.

[TPE]

Doesn't have to be a literal box to make it not worth releasing. If I were you, I wouldn't be going for something 'a little smaller than Hugeass' since generally those maps are only fun for about a week, but if you do, I'd advise you don't release it here. Unless, of course, it turns out to be a really awesome map... though like I said, I can't see it being one.

well the place i have been posting updates and letting them alpha test are highly interested, even though the textures are messed up. the official alpha test is tomarrow so i cant really tell you what they thought of it till then.

anyway i dont care about the popularity. it will come out after H2V and then were moving to our next prodject.

[Stormwing]

/signed.

Well, for the most part. there are a number of very very good first maps, especially from those who hang round here ;)

But I actually found this guy's first map (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=2095) to be very fun and well made...but yeah, one of the few exceptions anyway..

[SoulD3stroyer]

all of this sounds so dam familiar

[mech]

omfg its u :D

[P-Thunder.]

I took one look at level design for Halo: combat evolved and i just walked away. Not worth the bother TBH. So i moved into the source engine and now iam on a mod team for it (School:Source).

But looking at the new level design software that bundles with Halo 2:Vista, i'l most definatly get into it. = ]

I was thinking of remaking Blood gulch in Source, a few displacements here and there and thats basicaly it haha!

[Con]

I took one look at level design for Halo: combat evolved and i just walked away. Not worth the bother TBH. So i moved into the source engine and now iam on a mod team for it (School:Source).

But looking at the new level design software that bundles with Halo 2:Vista, i'l most definatly get into it. = ]

I was thinking of remaking Blood gulch in Source, a few displacements here and there and thats basicaly it haha!

From what I've heard, they say it's a tad simplified, but it's still almost exactly like the HEK. Did anyone hear if they integrated tool.exe into the other programs?

[SoulD3stroyer]

From what I've heard, they say it's a tad simplified, but it's still almost exactly like the HEK. Did anyone hear if they integrated tool.exe into the other programs?

what about prometheus or however it's called, wouldn't that be something else?

[Random]

I took one look at level design for Halo: combat evolved and i just walked away. Not worth the bother TBH. So i moved into the source engine and now iam on a mod team for it (School:Source).

But looking at the new level design software that bundles with Halo 2:Vista, i'l most definatly get into it. = ]

I was thinking of remaking Blood gulch in Source, a few displacements here and there and thats basicaly it haha!

Level design for the Source engine makes me cry :fail:
You have to model the levels in the pos Hammer which limits me greatly. I would much rather Mod the Blam engine because it is In my Opinion superior in the aspect of developer freedom. Although you don't have any code to work with (which I like about the source engine) you are not limited on a creative/artistic basis. Honestly if you look at a level like Portent and then compared to levels made in the source engine I find Portent just looks far more detailed and complex. I don't think the modders suck but rather they are forced to use Hammer and can not display any highly detailed work from a bsp standpoint.

This rant is just me getting over not being able to use max to model levels for source, which was one of the reasons I got those games :gonk:

[{MMT} Pope]

ok the thing i find the most pointless is releasing a map that has no textures
errerm **no where beta**.

[NerveBooger]

Hmmph. Not releasing your first map is like losing your virginity . . . alone . . . Releasing your first map, then getting cruel feedback from forum terrorists: like losing your virginity to a cheese grater.

Some feel the absolute need to belittle others at their skill level (or absence-of-skill) I would call this rude. If you are on step 1, you are exactly where you need to be to get to step 2. For those of you who are on step 10 . . . it is awfully stupid to denegrate those on step 1 and their mistakes. Let them lose their virginity and make the same mistakes the level 10 'whores' have made and offer effective, constructive feedback, including negative feedback.

However, I agree with the advice. Just dont agree with forum terrorists who spend their time telling the virgins to give up before they have arrived and making discouraging remarks. It's kinda like wipin your butt with a sea urchin, mostly painful, completely ineffective and only comical to the onlooker. Thanks for setting the example of what NOT to do then claiming wisdom when you profess "Dont use a sea urchin!" - then mock them for being as stupid as your holiness once was.

Be nice to noobs - they will replace you eventually and probably become your next employer. Next time you give advice or review - make it helpful, or keep your sea urchin lovin bleeding from the butt mouth shut.

-Directed only to the guilty

[Phopojijo]

Uh... huh.

Well thats metaphor filled.

Regardless I agree on the premise. Be nice to the newbs. Karma karma karma...

[Kalub]

Whoa.... Phopo's right! To the Croc-Cave™!


This is my first map (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=787). :woop:

[SnaFuBAR]

This is my first map (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=787). :woop:
you owe me: retina x2

[stevo]

I've only made one map so far and i was going to release it, im glad im not cause i relized after playing it a few times that how much it sucks, instead im going to do what you guys said, practice, practice untill my eyes bleed, maybe not that far, hopfully i'll get as skilled as you guys.

[RandomVietBoy]

i got a question will halo ce and pc work for windows vista ultimate?

[RandomVietBoy]

becuz i cant find the rite one

[RandomVietBoy]

HOW?

[Patrickssj6]

and if you survive the fire that's called a double post.

[ExAm]

and if you survive the fire that's called a double post.

HA HA HA H--*dies*

[Tweek]

i released my first map :>

it exeptioned upon load.
fooled everyone who downloaded it.

[jahrain]

My first map (http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=1990) was one of the last few maps I released. I just didn't work on it for, like, forever.

[DaaxGhost]

I like it Jahrain!:)

[Xegrot]

I like it Jahrain!:)

Can you say "bump"?

[Con]

I'ts not really a bump if it's stickied :lol:

[ExAm]

Indeed. The act of bumping implies "bumping" a topic from the bottom of the page, or a few pages down, to the top of the front page. Obviously a topic can't be bumped if it stays in one spot.

[Llama Juice]

I don't feel that any of my maps are worthy, so I haven't released anything. *listed in order of creation*

Cliffy Cliff (http://www.llamajuice.com/xbox/ui/cliffy%20cliff.JPG)
Shaft
Shaft 2 (http://www.llamajuice.com/xbox/ui/shaft%202.JPG)
Prizz (http://www.llamajuice.com/xbox/ui/prizz.JPG)
Xwing (http://www.llamajuice.com/xbox/ui/xwing.JPG) (made a tutorial... this is the map I made in it...)
Lockin (http://www.llamajuice.com/ce/lockin/1.JPG)
Prizz 2 (http://www.llamajuice.com/ce/prizz2/4.JPG)
Cliffy Cliff V2 (http://www.llamajuice.com/ce/cliffy2/6.JPG)
Eight (http://www.llamajuice.com/ce/eight/3.jpg)

plus countless WIPs...

[DaneO'Roo]

" Noobie Tip: Don't release your first maps"

what about meh :(

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9573/danes3dscene1wm0.jpg

[thehoodedsmack]

~:awesome:> Pfft. So lame....



Not really. Well done.

[DaneO'Roo]

I'd really like to see that map from a different angle for once dane :\

no not for a while. My bases aren't done yet :P

[Bad Waffle]

Dano, you will laugh at yourself in a year or so if you release that map. Seriously, the textures are good, but the modelling is fucking horrible. Dont release--keep it as a sandbox. I thought the modelling on my first level was great, and lots of people said it was great too, but im glad i never released it.

[DaneO'Roo]

Dano, you will laugh at yourself in a year or so if you release that map. Seriously, the textures are good, but the modelling is fucking horrible. Dont release--keep it as a sandbox. I thought the modelling on my first level was great, and lots of people said it was great too, but im glad i never released it.

yeah, I totally agree. Well, I still want the layout and theme of my map, the middle structure, the bases but I'll just remodel it, eh?

The maps become somewhat a memorial for my sister now. It's just..special to me, working on it while going through this emotional bullshit and pouring so much effort into it.

But yes, i totally agree with you. I want it to be the very best it possible can. So I'll wait some more, learn to kick ass at modeling and then try again. Well shit, I've allready got all the textures ready.

[Tweek]

or you can let me help.:eyesroll:

[DaneO'Roo]

that too :P

[Con]

or you can let me help.:eyesroll:
Nothin' better to do? :party:

[Tweek]

NO U!

[El Lobo]

my first map was new mombassa, it turned out pretty good

:lobo:

[Con]

Ahuh, and you can't even spell Mombasa? :awesome:
:lobowned:

[El Lobo]

You just don't understand my creative genius good sir. Also, you smell like a dead animal.

:lobo:

also, lol @ lobowned:highfive:

[Sub-Zero]

i do plan on showing my first map anytime soon, but dont think its a box map ive been learning 3ds max for awhile now, and then i ran into this game.

[Con]

You should create a W.I.P. thread so we can see, theres no shortage of criticism and advice here.

[Kornman00]

Curiosity killed the cat...

[Sel]

You should create a W.I.P. thread so we can see, theres no shortage of criticism and advice here.

And flames.

[Zeph]

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=866
Here is proof noobies shouldn't release the first map. I worked on this with a clan mate and we barely got it done. It was small, boring, and only fun for those of us in the clan who spent time working on it.

[Kornman00]

hai, gimme your kitty ~:mad:>

[Apoc4lypse]

And flames.

just noticed how much uglier conscars cat avatar is compared to yours

XD

EDIT: Zeph you should finish that map :D

[Sub-Zero]

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=866
Here is proof noobies shouldn't release the first map. I worked on this with a clan mate and we barely got it done. It was small, boring, and only fun for those of us in the clan who spent time working on it.

and you expect thats the best modeling i can do? well my friend you will be very suprised.

[SnaFuBAR]

convince us. and if it's downloaded content, you'll get busted before 3 days, just like everyone else.

[blind]

i released my first map
its called dance of the tea cups.

[Sel]

just noticed how much uglier conscars cat avatar is compared to yours

XD

EDIT: Zeph you should finish that map :D

Hahah, Conscars' is serious cat.

[DarkHalo003]

Hehehe, too late. I can't model maps anymore.lol.

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=3681

I now model weapons and mod levels for my own amusement. :P

[Roostervier]

Why would you release a map like that? It looks no different than the thousand other box canyons that are poorly modeled and uv'd, with the dangercanyon ground map.

Even if you don't model bsps anymore, go and search for the beretta 9000 plane modeling tutorial, if you have not seen it.

[DarkHalo003]

I model weapons now. I could model maps, but right now I have other things to do. That was also, what, 5 months ago? Much better now thank god......

[Pooky]

Hey clearly my cat avatar is the best :mad:

[DarkHalo003]

Hey clearly my cat avatar is the best :mad:
No, Zeph's cat will eat yours alive. =/

[Tweek]

I model weapons now. I could model maps, but right now I have other things to do. That was also, what, 5 months ago? Much better now thank god......

so prove it.

[Pooky]

No, Zeph's cat will eat yours alive. =/

Except not, because my cat is not only immortal but has the entire military force of the Imperium of Cat guarding him :eng101:

[NuggetWarmer]

I model weapons now. I could model maps, but right now I have other things to do. That was also, what, 5 months ago? Much better now thank god......

And you still aren't good at it. :D

[DarkHalo003]

And you still aren't good at it. :D
I'm getting better. Just need time to plane model.lol. :rolleyes:

[DavidR]

First map huh...I would say first attempt at modeling something that resembles a map.

[Edward Elrich]

Well you have to start somewhere...

I don't know why people release their first maps either. IMO, instead of releasing it for anyone to download, just distribute it privately among friends, family, etc. to test and give you feedback for. So if it sucks ass, you won't be flamed by the entire Halo community and have no one download any more of your maps.

[DarkHalo003]

Well you have to start somewhere...

I don't know why people release their first maps either. IMO, instead of releasing it for anyone to download, just distribute it privately among friends, family, etc. to test and give you feedback for. So if it sucks ass, you won't be flamed by the entire Halo community and have no one download any more of your maps.
Well, I did get a lot of stuff out of my first map, such as setting up multiplayer elements, some stuff about setting up skies and scenery, and I also learned about the use of elevating scenery. If I ever get the chance to have another 3d Modeling program working on my computer again, I'll try and do what I really wanted to in the first place. IF I do and it turns out like I wanted it to be in the first place, then you won't even be able to tell the resemblance between the maps. It was really my first attempt at making a decent map. Learn from failure. :eng101:

[Polamee]

My first map is rated 8.8 :P

I contradict what you are saying

Though, I do agree, if your first map is a map with just plain simple classic vehicles and weapons and crappy modelling, don't release it.

[SnaFuBAR]

My first map is rated 8.8 :P

I contradict what you are saying

Though, I do agree, if your first map is a map with just plain simple classic vehicles and weapons and crappy modelling, don't release it.
Rated 8.8 where? Halomaps? That doesn't mean anything. They'll highly rate anything they just can't do.

[Roostervier]

This is his first map:
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=3607

<_<

[SnaFuBAR]

That's not a map, that's a mod. A weak one.

[legionaire45]

I'd say that my first map (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10694) was pretty win :3.

@Dane: o/

[.Wolf™]

That "rating" is hardly accurate..I would rather see my map being played then all downloads i get..They dont rly matter that much to me..

[Rob Oplawar]

roboplawar (5:00:51 PM): "I contradict what you are saying"
roboplawar (5:00:54 PM): lol
PharoaheZephyrus (5:01:00 PM): lol
PharoaheZephyrus (5:01:07 PM): nope, he just proved the point
PharoaheZephyrus (5:01:12 PM): don't release shit like that hth
roboplawar (5:01:25 PM): i would say "kid has balls", but in this case, it's not balls, it's stupidity
PharoaheZephyrus (5:01:39 PM): post it yo
e:

roboplawar (5:03:54 PM): wait
roboplawar (5:04:03 PM): when you said
roboplawar (5:04:03 PM): PharoaheZephyrus (5:01:39 PM): post it yo
roboplawar (5:04:17 PM): did you mean for me to post our convo?
PharoaheZephyrus (5:04:57 PM): no i mean just post how he proved the point
PharoaheZephyrus (5:05:53 PM): rofl you posted convo
PharoaheZephyrus (5:06:01 PM): EDIT OUT MY USER GODDAM
roboplawar (5:06:02 PM): just a little bit
roboplawar (5:06:09 PM): i added your user more
roboplawar (5:06:13 PM): *refresh*
PharoaheZephyrus (5:06:52 PM): i'm gonna get IM's now :smith:

[Polamee]

Darn it, it was bumped down to 7.6

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=3680

=D Another one.

[Hunter]

Mods = Fail

(Exclusing well made mods)

[SnaFuBAR]

Darn it, it was bumped down to 7.6

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=3680

=D Another one.
that sucks and stop posting releases in here.

[Polamee]

That's not a release. :|

[SnaFuBAR]

Then stop posting your MP AI mods in here. Is that clear enough? They're not contradictions to the thread, they're just boring AI mods that have been done 1000x.

[Inferno]

Darn it, it was bumped down to 7.6

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=3680

=D Another one.

Hurf! Looky har we gotz AI on a dangar canyun! Tharts sooo oreginal! Durf Hurf Durf!

[Polamee]

Ok. Sorry.

I would like to object on what this topic is about. If you were a beginner, and made a map, of course you would feel your map is worth uploading. When I created my first box map, I was super-happy, and even though it was just a simple box map made with a heightmap and displace. I was eager to share it with my Xfire buddies, and I uploaded it straight away.

What I'm meaning is, if you found/did something new, you would first want it online to share with friends (if you have any. If you don't, go create SP like me). You are forgetting the main purpose of Halo CE here: forget about map quality, or textures, or cool weapons. Halo Custom Edition isn not some huge contest to find out who is the best mapper. The main purpose would just be to have fun, and enjoy the gameplay.

Now you might point out that some noobies mught get discouraged when their maps get rated 4.0 or something, and quit map-making. That is in fact, untrue. When their first map comes out, and people rate it lowly, it will encourage him to make maps of better quality, as we mappers consider it fun to map (otherwise, why are you mapping in the first place? You obviously cannot get any money out of it).

Meaning if this noobie has created and managed to finish even a simple box map/mod, he should have worked hard for it, and followed many tuts and stuff. That proves that he thinks Halo Mapping is fun, and probrably will continue.

My 2 cent's worth.

[Sel]

Darn it, it was bumped down to 7.6

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=3680

=D Another one.

Another shitty one.

[TeeKup]

Gameplay?

Most first maps are box maps. There is no gameplay.

[SnaFuBAR]

Ok. Sorry.

I would like to object on what this topic is about.

Bawww

If you were a beginner, and made a map, of course you would feel your map is worth uploading. When I created my first box map, I was super-happy, and even though it was just a simple box map made with a heightmap and displace. I was eager to share it with my Xfire buddies, and I uploaded it straight away.

Send it to them only, don't release it on halomaps, it sucks.

What I'm meaning is, if you found/did something new, you would first want it online to share with friends (if you have any. If you don't, go create SP like me).

You didn't do anything new. You did the 10,000th generic mp ai mod.

You are forgetting the main purpose of Halo CE here: forget about map quality, or textures, or cool weapons. Halo Custom Edition isn not some huge contest to find out who is the best mapper. The main purpose would just be to have fun, and enjoy the gameplay.

Your mods lack quality in map, textures, weapons, etc. Shittty ai encounters on a mp map is not gameplay.

Now you might point out that some noobies mught get discouraged when their maps get rated 4.0 or something, and quit map-making. That is in fact, untrue. When their first map comes out, and people rate it lowly, it will encourage him to make maps of better quality, as we mappers consider it fun to map (otherwise, why are you mapping in the first place? You obviously cannot get any money out of it).

Most kiddies in the Halo scene get discouraged when they're not given the upmost amount of praise, and the majority of them quit. "We" mappers? You are not a mapper, you are a modder, and all you do is place AI encounters in stock maps from what I've seen.

Meaning if this noobie has created and managed to finish even a simple box map/mod, he should have worked hard for it, and followed many tuts and stuff. That proves that he thinks Halo Mapping is fun, and probrably will continue.

BFD. He followed tuts and worked hard. Just because he worked hard to learn something doesn't make it worthy of release. Learning is part of this whole deal. So good for him, he thinks mapping is fun. Hopefully he does continue, but it doesn't mean he should release a box map with no gameplay, nor a generic, shitty AI mod.

My 2 cent's worth.
.

[Hunter]

IMO. When someone uploads to halomaps I think someone other than Dennis could test the maps, and see how well they play. If they play dont play well then delete them. I am sure it will encorage people to TRY and make good maps.

But the person testing the maps may not like it and others might, that is the only problem. And a lot of maps get uploaded.

[Gamerkd16]

Exactly. Where do you draw the line?

I think the line should be made at the point when a map is literally a box map. If the map has unfinished textures (missing shaders with white walls) or very basic shapes (ie: a box, a cylinder) it should be deleted. If something is labeled as a beta, it should be deleted. Betas or alphas are not releases. Keep the standards low...but have at least some point at which maps don't make the grade.

Getting rid of the lowest of the low.

E: Perhaps Dennis should make a guidebook. Requirements that mappers must have in their maps for them to be uploaded. That way there are no surprises if your map is deleted. And if you think your map doesn't have to follow a guideline, the mapper can explain a reason why. Maybe it is part of the gameplay. Because there should be exceptions to the rules as well for special maps.

[p0lar_bear]

IMO. When someone uploads to halomaps I think someone other than Dennis could test the maps, and see how well they play. If they play dont play well then delete them. I am sure it will encorage people to TRY and make good maps.

But the person testing the maps may not like it and others might, that is the only problem. And a lot of maps get uploaded.

Gameplay testing is entirely up to the creators. If they want to make a map and not test it for gameplay value, then they shouldn't be surprised when it doesn't get played.

Besides, what is a "good" map is entrirely subjective. While puristfags scoff at novelty maps, sometimes a little brainless mod is just what the doctor ordered (chaosgulch, for example. Yeah, nothing groundbreaking or new, but you had to admit, a chaingun firing rockets is damn fun).

Also, having Dennis retain all maps uploaded as long as they run is a good thing in a way. Dennis is essentially retaining all of CE's history; the good, the bad, and the ugly. Without him, there would be no history of this game.

But at any rate, new users should learn to keep first maps internal. Just a couple weeks ago, I made my first box map in Hammer for TF2. It's a box with some dim lights, two spawn points, two ammo and health boxes, and a couple cow cutouts. I was happy that I made my first "working" map in TF2... hell, the whole Source engine, but did I post it in the Source Releases forum? No. Why? It was a fucking test map. Despite the fact that it loads and runs in TF2, it's broken; there are no game rule entities in place, no resupply areas, objectives, anything.

Yeah, be psyched that you made your own first map. Keep your ego stroking to yourself or to your friends who probably know jack-shit about modding video games. Keep in mind that you're releasing to a large audience with a set of mixed expectations who probably know a thing or two about the engine, and not to a bunch of clueless newbies that cream themselves over the slightest hint of user-made content.

[Gamerkd16]

Then stop posting your MP AI mods in here. Is that clear enough? They're not contradictions to the thread, they're just boring AI mods that have been done 1000x.
And yeah....mods can be fun for like 30 minutes when you are just screwing around with AI bots, but unless you are using those bots in a single player map where there's a story line and, you know, actual fun, it's just target practice on a map you have played 100 times. Mods lack originality, most of the time. Not really fun. That's why I'm glad HaloMaps has their own section for the mods, so they you can filter out all the crap creations that people upload.

[t3h m00kz]

:words:

I kind of agree with this guy to an extent. You can't really make any money out of modding Halo, so you might as well do it for fun. I'll tell you, when I figured out how to modify weapons and how they acted in Halo PC with HHT, I shat a brick and was so fuckin' happy. I posted a video here, but I knew it didn't sync over the net well so I didn't post a map (Anyone remember m00kgulch? lolz). I knew it was just another BG mod, so that's another reason I didn't post it. However, I learned from that how to modify weapons, and here I am doing a UT2004 TC with some of the most unique weapon tagging I personall have seen so far for the Halo engine (not to stroke my own ego, I've just honestly never seen too many impressive, out-of-the-box weapons in any of the maps I've downloaded).

However, Modacity is a place for quality mods, and box maps are a bit common. I'd say releasing a box map to your friends is as far as you SHOULD go, then work on better material that would be more worthy of releasing, IE unique weapon modifications. Learn some stuff in MAX, swap out some weapons, animate some stuff, stuff like that. Don't expect your very, very first mod to be something that will impress. Think of it as a learning experience.

Also, Snaf, when he say "did something new" I think he meant for that individual person, not something completely unique in the community.

And in my honest opinion, telling someone how absolutely god-aweful shitty their first mods are will do nothing but discourage them. It's like someone getting told they aren't good enough for a position they're applying for that they really want. That would make ANYBODY feel like shit, I'll tell you that from a first hand perspective

You are right in the sense that his mod is nothing too unique, but really I think this guy has potential if he learns enough about the tools... hell, one day he could probably pull off some stuff like that crazy ass Danger Canyon SP mod we saw a while back.

[Con]

There's different groups of CE modders/mappers, each with their own views on what makes CE worth it. It's wrong to argue which view is right or wrong. The problem is, where do we draw the line? Obviously the line is in different places according to personal standards, and some standards will be higher than others. It's not a question of what makes a quality map. That's subjective. What it comes down to is a personal sense of accomplishment, as I said in post 1 of this topic. Do you feel that you finished this map to completion? Do you think it's 100% worthy?

[Polamee]

You are right in the sense that his mod is nothing too unique, but really I think this guy has potential if he learns enough about the tools... hell, one day he could probably pull off some stuff like that crazy ass Danger Canyon SP mod we saw a while back.

Ahem....

Anyway, the GHp dangercanyon mods weren't even original. Gamgodlazy just ripped off some one else's map, and added in new H2 ripped AI and stuff like that.

Enough of advertising my maps.

Right. I have to agree with you guys that some maps are not worth uploading, but what's the problem with that? Just don't download maps you don't think are worthy enough.

[ExAm]

Stop trying to prove this thread wrong, please. You're just digging yourself in deeper.

[L0d3x]

Ahem....

http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=24087

This should put a stop to people calling me a noob who makes stupid MP AI mods. (this map is SINGLE PLAYER)

Though the startup cutscene is crap. The rest of the levl is pretty fun from the feedback I've been getting.

Anyway, the GHp dangercanyon mods weren't even original. Gamgodlazy just ripped off some one else's map, and added in new H2 ripped AI and stuff like that.



Eh you interpreted all those flaws I pointed out as "pretty fun"? Sorry man but if I found myself releasing stuff like that I'd, well, do something that isn't pretty to myself.

MP AI mods or Single Players MP-map AI mods, there isn't a big difference.

The Dangercanyon maps at least felt somewhat finished, your "beta" is far from finished...and the beta excuse is just lame. There were things in your map that clearly illustrate that you, the creator, didn't even take the time to test the map yourself decently.

[Polamee]

Right.

I shall now quit posting in this thread in fear of causing any more trouble.

[Sel]

Ahem....

http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=24087

This should put a stop to people calling me a noob who makes stupid MP AI mods. (this map is SINGLE PLAYER)

Though the startup cutscene is crap. The rest of the levl is pretty fun from the feedback I've been getting.


Now you're getting bad feedback.

[Gamerkd16]

Ahem....

Anyway, the GHp dangercanyon mods weren't even original. Gamgodlazy just ripped off some one else's map, and added in new H2 ripped

Exactly.


Ahem....
http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?...&topicID=24087

This should put a stop to people calling me a noob who makes stupid MP AI mods. (this map is SINGLE PLAYER)

Though the startup cutscene is crap. The rest of the levl is pretty fun from the feedback I've been getting.
Oh right, I remember this map. It showed some degree of effort but I remember there being lack of direction, checkpoints that wouldn't work, and cameras moving through walls. Single Player bots/maps is a step up from Multiplayer bots/maps though.

[Polamee]

I was simply proving that I Sp mod. Nuff said

[p0lar_bear]

This isnt the time or place for that though.

I'm locking this, I see no more room for discussion here about the topic, unless Con feels otherwise.