Footage of Israelis Shooting Palistinean Farmers

[SnaFuBAR]

http://www.inewsit.com/video/gallery/Footage-of-Israeli-Military-Shooting-Gaza-Farmers

Description: Israeli Military Shoot Gaza Farmer - 18th February 2009 Israeli forces shot a twenty year-old Palestinian farmer as he worked his land in the village of Al-Faraheen, east of Khan Younis in the Gaza Strip. International Human Rights Activists were accompanying the group of farmers at the time as they worked approximately 500m from the Green Line. Mohammad al - Breem, 20, was shot in the right leg as the farmers, together with the international Human Rights Activists, attempted to leave the area having worked on their land for 2 hours in full view of the Israeli forces situated along the Green Line. As the farmers were loading up the parsley and spinach from the agricultural lands shots were fired from Israeli forces on the border. Mohammad was shot in the right leg and evacuated, while still under fire, to hospital. International Human Rights Activists have repeatedly witnessed Palestinian farmers being shot at by Israeli forces as they attempt to work on agricultural land situated within 700m of the Green Line. On Tuesday 27th January 2009, in Al Faraheen, Israeli forces shot at several farmers, killing a 27 year old farmer.

[Bodzilla]

what nice respectable people.

you know what we need to do? give them bugger guns and money.

[rossmum]

Personally I'd consider both the ones that do shit like this and Hamas to be as bad as each other. One shoots civs, the other either blows them up or hides behind them. I've pretty much given up on any sort of peace being reached because each extreme is as stubborn as the other and the ones with some common sense get drowned out by the zealots. I'd say that the UN should step in and enforce some sort of peace, but then I remember that the UN are useless cunts and do sweet fuck all to help anyone these days.

[Bodzilla]

but then I remember that the UN are useless cunts and don't do sweet fuck all to help anyone these days.
Oath, i mean seriously when was the last time they intervened on something like this and had a positive effect.

it's alright to help people after they've had the fuck bombed out of them, but why not stop it earlier.

Israel has this stance atm that pisses me off to no end, "nah bro Israel coo, where cool. we wouldnt do those things cause where coo."
"but we have evidence witness's documents and videos to the contrary."
"your not listening to me, we cool we dun do dat, we coo."
"oh, ok. coo."

same fucking thing with china.
atohksajthktsjahtksjhAJFLKHFSKJHF >:uU!!11

[SnaFuBAR]

Obama told Israel to stop building settlements because they're really not helping the situation.

:smug:

Yeah, take some of that, fuckers.

[RobertGraham]

They have been fighting like this for centuries, whats the big deal? Not trying to sound prejudice, but mostly all of the Middle east and their counterparts have been fighting over land for thousands of years. What makes this any different?

[mech]

The worlds looking this time.

[Limited]

They have been fighting like this for centuries, whats the big deal? Not trying to sound prejudice, but mostly all of the Middle east and their counterparts have been fighting over land for thousands of years. What makes this any different?
Did you even read the text/watch the fucking video?

This is horrific,we have international law for a fucking reason, in every country its illegal to shoot at unarmed civilians.

The video is Iraseli army vs Palistinean army. Its Iraseli cowards shooting an unarmede civilians.

Even after the UN officials declared they were unarmed civilians they still proceeded to shoot. I'm glad they filmed this event, and hope the UN clamp down on Irasel.

Major props to the farmers, they didnt seem to scared, or at least show it. If I was getting shot at and had no gun I'd be shitting myself.

In Iraq and Afghanistan, we have to comply with the law, and guess what, that law bites us in the ass. Why? We start a fight with the Taliban, they become cowards, drop their weapons and just walk away. We can only do one thing in the situation, we have to stop shooting. Even though two seconds ago they were brandishing AK's and rocket launchers and know they are enemies they want to kill our troops. We still have to obey the law, and thats why I think it needs amending.

[TeeKup]

The idea is to look like their better. When we modify the law to do whatever we want to them because we say we're the "good guys", in actuality it makes us no better than them.

[RobertGraham]

Its the people who don't see death often are the one's who have feelings about it. It's nothing really new. Remember the war Egypt and Israel had in the 1980's? Guess who started that too?

[Heathen]

I bet that would fuck up your morning.

[TVTyrant]

I'm not saying I support either side here.
In one part Israel is severely in the wrong, just as the US have been in Iraq. You can't fucking ride around and shoot up the place for the fucking fun of it, doing nothing to help with a severely unstable political climate (although the whole thing with Iraq was very weird. Message me if you want to talk to me about it). People are fucking people, you can't go around killing and maiming people just because thats what you want to do. Thats as bad as terrorism if you ask me.
However, the actions Hamas have taken have done a large amount to drive Israel to these actions. When you sign a truce, its a fucking truce. You dont go off and shoot rockets into civilian villages when you have a ceasefire agreement, especially one that puts you in the best place you've been in 20 years.

[RobertGraham]

I'm not saying I support either side here.
In one part Israel is severely in the wrong, just as the US have been in Iraq. You can't fucking ride around and shoot up the place for the fucking fun of it, doing nothing to help with a severely unstable political climate (although the whole thing with Iraq was very weird. Message me if you want to talk to me about it). People are fucking people, you can't go around killing and maiming people just because thats what you want to do. Thats as bad as terrorism if you ask me.
We have terrorists in the ghettos...

[mech]

Shut up man.

[CN3089]

Remember the war Egypt and Israel had in the 1980's?

No, I don't, considering that Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty in 1979. :v:

[SnaFuBAR]

Its the people who don't see death often are the one's who have feelings about it.

Guess all dem vidya games desensitized you.

It's nothing really new. Remember the war Egypt and Israel had in the 1980's? Guess who started that too?

Alternate history is great.

.

[RobertGraham]

No, I don't, considering that Egypt and Israel signed a peace treated in 1979. :v:DOH, Im gonna look into that a little more then :gonk:

[rossmum]

They have been fighting like this for centuries, whats the big deal? Not trying to sound prejudice, but mostly all of the Middle east and their counterparts have been fighting over land for thousands of years. What makes this any different?
Actually, as far as I can recall, shit was pretty peaceful in British Palestine. The Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews got along quite well, because neither of them was in control and so neither could go on a power trip. They should've left it as one country governed by either an outside entity or a joint council, not one group or the other. That's just asking for trouble.

[TVTyrant]

Actually the Brits pulled out because the Jews and Arabs were trying to bomb there way out of British control, although to my recollection they were doing it together...

[rossmum]

That was after the war, yeah - everyone was making a push for independence then, it was like the cool thing to do after it had been proven that European supremacy was just a myth. All the same, they weren't killing each other.

[SnaFuBAR]

Blame it on Britain.

But still, the Israeli regular forces are held to a higher standard than ragtag extremist combatants. This was an act of terrorism by Israeli forces.

PS anyone in Israel 18+ could hardly be considered a civilian as they're all in military service.

[RobertGraham]

Any male over the age of 18 in Israel has to server at least 4 years in the military.

[Joshflighter]

Eh, but most get out of the military after, so yea, they become civilian.

Its the same story. China with Tibet... Then the middle east, then America and the middle east.

Only difference is, that sometimes its caught on tape and everyone goes OMG, whoopi shitty someone should do something. BUT NO ONE Does. Wanna know why? No country really gives much of a shit unless its them. So really, this has been going on and will go on. It depends on what side you are on and see it right or fit. End of story.

[n00b1n8R]

PS anyone in Israel 18+ could hardly be considered a civilian as they're all in military service.
Compulsary service does not necessarily mean willing participant.

[RobertGraham]

Eh, but most get out of the military after, so yea, they become civilian.

Its the same story. Chine with Tibet... Then the middle east, then America and the middle east.

Only difference is, that sometimes its caught on tape and everyone goes OMG, whoopi shitty someone should do something. BUT NO ONE Does. Wanna know why? No country really gives much of a shit unless its them. So really, this has been going on and will go on. It depends on what side you are on and see it right or fit. End of story.
There are also no resources in that country that we can scavenge from them, so what's the point of the US being there? :v:

[Joshflighter]

Nvm, this is off-topic. :o

[dg]

Shit happens.

You don't think that U.S. soldiers ever fired on Afghan/Iraqi civilians?

[TeeKup]

Shit happens.

You don't think that U.S. soldiers ever fired on Afghan/Iraqi civilians?

They have, but the media just happens to not be recording then.

[GRDestroyerH3]

i hate israil nation
they killed Jesus :(

[Maniac]

You really want to blame someone?
Blame "Great" Britain,The USA and Russia.

You can apply that to anything, not just this thread.

[Limited]

You really want to blame someone?
Blame "Great" Britain,The USA and Russia.

You can apply that to anything, not just this thread.
We could just blame, the fucking Israeli soldiers that were shooting.

Even if they were ordered to shoot, they could ignore the order as it breaks international law. Therefore it is solely there fault.


Shit happens.

You don't think that U.S. soldiers ever fired on Afghan/Iraqi civilians?
Nope, not intentionally, as in:
"They are farmers, no threat, no guns, UN aid workers are helping them, they are fully legit civilians" which is exactly what happened in the threads case.

[Joshflighter]

We could just blame, the fucking Israeli soldiers that were shooting.

Even if they were ordered to shoot, they could ignore the order as it breaks international law. Therefore it is solely there fault.


Nope, not intentionally, as in:
"They are farmers, no threat, no guns, UN aid workers are helping them, they are fully legit civilians" which is exactly what happened in the threads case.

Uh, yea, because they totally show this kind of stuff in other wars.. :|

You seem to be so secure with your statement, i think you are wrong.

War is wrong.

Also, Israel is to blame, but there not the only county that is doing this. America did *(hell they raped woman THAT WERE CAVILAIN :|), Germany, Africa (tribe wars), Canada, Mexico. They all have there bad people in there army that do nasty and unethical stuff.

[Limited]

Care to find me that video of what I described occurring with American troops? Because I would love to proved wrong.

I'm not going to say yes American troops are the most honourable but I'm not going to say that for any ones army and yes I do know they that have shot unarmed terrorists before although I dont really shed a tear on that matter.

War is a horrible thing, war damages a country in so many ways. The problem is, we are human, and humans disagree. I may have a squabble with a friend about something small, however when they expands up to the government level, its deadly.

[Joshflighter]

Care to find me that video of what I described occurring with American troops? Because I would love to proved wrong.

I'm not going to say yes American troops are the most honourable but I'm not going to say that for any ones army and yes I do know they that have shot unarmed terrorists before although I dont really shed a tear on that matter.

War is a horrible thing, war damages a country in so many ways. The problem is, we are human, and humans disagree. I may have a squabble with a friend about something small, however when they expands up to the government level, its deadly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEU8c8sCfMc&feature=related


I am not going to continue this though. You know what happen last time.. it went on and on. Im out hopefully. :)

[RobertGraham]

1:09

"..and they returned to their checkpoint and grilled some chicken wings.."

Sorry, but that made me LOL

[Maniac]

We could just blame, the fucking Israeli soldiers that were shooting.

Even if they were ordered to shoot, they could ignore the order as it breaks international law. Therefore it is solely there fault.


Nope, not intentionally, as in:
"They are farmers, no threat, no guns, UN aid workers are helping them, they are fully legit civilians" which is exactly what happened in the threads case.
Use your brain man, why would i blame the shooting of innocent farmers by Israeli soldiers on a totally separate nation/nations?

I was obviously talking about the relocation of Jewish people after WW2.

And it is a known fact that US soldiers take pot shots at Iraqi civilians for shits and giggles as they drive by.

[Limited]

That too is horrific, Fear.

I think we need to hear the Israeli's side of the story. In the video fear posted, the Americans admit doing what they did.

I'm pretty much speechless right now.

[Bodzilla]

That too is horrific, Fear.

I think we need to hear the Israeli's side of the story. In the video fear posted, the Americans admit doing what they did.

I'm pretty much speechless right now.
you honestly didnt know about anything like this?
where have you been living man, under a rock?

the difference is on the israel side it's being encouraged by religious leaders and the army so it's more of a controlled genocide rather then individual soldiers actions, and thats the difference.

[RobertGraham]

That too is horrific, Fear.

I think we need to hear the Israeli's side of the story. In the video fear posted, the Americans admit doing what they did.

I'm pretty much speechless right now.
People that don't understand how war really is, won't realize that a death is a new beginning, and will continue to try stop it, but only kill themselves.

It's really nothing special. There are probably more drive by's in a day then there are Israel troops shooting up farmers.

[Bodzilla]

People that don't understand how war really is, won't realize that a death is a new beginning, and will continue to try stop it, but only kill themselves.

It's really nothing special. There are probably more drive by's in a day then there are Israel troops shooting up farmers.
what.... the fuck.

that is a fucking terrible thing to say. gtfo.

[Limited]

the difference is on the israel side it's being encouraged by religious leaders and the army so it's more of a controlled genocide rather then individual soldiers actions, and thats the difference.
I heard about the Abu Ghraib incidents but it was a gray area whether they have been ordered to do it or not.

Like you said, the Israeli situation is different because thats the mentality of the army and the leaders.

And thats why its such a problem, rogue soldiers doing it is hard to spot and hard to catch.

[Joshflighter]

I know I said I wouldn't really post here, but I'm so tempted.

I think its more the ethics and mentality of the officer with the gun and not the orders of his troop. Its not like someone told them, "go shoot the farmer"... it was more the hatred I guess that came from a biased background.

Think about it, and both sides are mentally biased screwed. Both wanna kill each other.

Durr durrr, I think I'm out again. :p

[RobertGraham]

what.... the fuck.

that is a fucking terrible thing to say. gtfo.
Its horrible, yes, but its life. Life will have enemies, and if they see that they are weaker, they will kill them, only if they are controlling enough and are not animals. I do believe in Herbert Spencer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Spencer)'s saying.


Survival of the FittestE:
By chance, did anyone ever think about the animals killed daily for shits and giggles, accidents, etc?

[teh lag]

Its horrible, yes, but its life. Life will have enemies, and if they see that they are weaker, they will kill them, only if they are controlling enough and are not animals. I do believe in Herbert Spencer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Spencer)'s saying.



E:
By chance, did anyone ever think about the animals killed daily for shits and giggles?

WOW.

Do you have any idea how fucking retarded you just sounded? Any idea at all? Do you have any grasp of the concepts of human rights? It's not ok to kill people just because they're "weaker." I have no idea where you got that twisted idea in your head, but I can assure you that that is not how human society works. I guess murder is fine in your fucked-up worldview too - after all, the victim was just too weak to fend off their attacker and thus have no rights at all! War is a clash between two nations, not an excuse for people to rape and pillage everything in sight just because they're "stronger." Especially for a nation like Isreal, which is a member of the U.N. and thus is held to certain moral standards.

omg dude your right, its totaly ok for themt o kills thosse peoeple i mean yeah survuivael of the fitest its theyre falt for nto beign sdtrong enuff to fite off the soljers ,. and yeah like, aslsong as animals do stuff its totaly fine for us to to! like how lions eat theyre young so the woman lion has to fuck the man lion agai (;)) we shud be ablee to do trhgat to lol

[Disaster]

:fail: is all that can describe that post

[Maniac]

I know I said I wouldn't really post here, but I'm so tempted.

I think its more the ethics and mentality of the officer with the gun and not the orders of his troop. Its not like someone told them, "go shoot the farmer"... it was more the hatred I guess that came from a biased background.

Think about it, and both sides are mentally biased screwed. Both wanna kill each other.

Durr durrr, I think I'm out again. :p

You are absolutely correct.

And to Robert, people who purposely cause harm or suffering to animals are the scum of the earth and usually turn out to be psychopathic or just are natural fucking assholes.

[RobertGraham]

It's a shame people don't understand Philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy). Life goes on. Its nothing new.

I know, that last post sounded really fucked up.

[ThePlague]

And to Robert, people who purposely cause harm or suffering to animals are the scum of the earth and usually turn out to be psychopathic or just are natural fucking assholes.
Sounds like Jason...

[rossmum]

As a soldier you have to obey all lawful orders unquestioningly. Lawful orders. 'lol guyse lets shoot som fukken palestinian farmers' is not a lawful order by any reckoning and the soldiers involved would have been well within their rights to tell whoever gave it to fuck off, assuming they didn't do it on their own initiative in the first place.

I could sit here all day listening to you lot claiming soldiers are/aren't monsters but if you think you can just blanket everyone, you're an idiot and probably don't know any. There are good soldiers, and there are terrible ones. Unfortunately you don't always find out until it's too late, by which point the damage has been done and I can fucking guarantee the media will be all over it like flies to shit and they will not let it go. Depending on who owns the outlet and what their views are, you'll either think X nation's soldiers are mass murderers or you'll think they're heroes. The truth is that it's a mix, just some have more of one than the other. Take the US Army, for example; on the one hand, you have Abu Ghraib and soldiers taunting Iraqi kids to chase after their convoy with candy and water, and on the other you have soldiers just giving the stuff out like it's the end of the world and having dance-offs with the locals. There's also the fact that a lot of questionable shit that happens in Iraq isn't even carried out by the military but by 'private military contractors', basically a nice little euphanism for mercenaries. These cunts are almost universally hated by soldiers and I'll tell you why: when they fuck about - and they do it a lot - it comes back on us, not them. If Blackwater go barrelling through an intersection shooting cars up for shits and giggles, the American troops are going to cop the heat for it, and most likely a few IEDs by way of retaliation as well.

Basically what I'm saying is that you can't just go ahead and assume every Israeli soldier is itching to kill Palestinians, just like you can't assume the opposite. A fair few of them are actually rather friendly with each other and on both sides they'll begin to trust the other only to come under attack by people they thought were mates. The whole thing is an utter mess but you really cannot go ahead and say they're all evil, much the same way you'd be an ignorant dolt for claiming all German soldiers in WWII were Nazis.

[Joshflighter]

Uh, who said they were all evil? D:

[RobertGraham]

Uh, who said they were all evil? D:
You must not read. Basically what he said was. Not all soldiers are bad. But there are good ones and terrible ones.

[Joshflighter]

The whole thing is an utter mess but you really cannot go ahead and say they're all evil...


I was just saying it to this. Heh. (Do you read? :p)

[PenGuin1362]

Nuke Israel

[Gwunty]

Tis good to see you too pengy.

[rossmum]

I was just saying it to this. Heh. (Do you read? :p)
was pre-empting the inevitable

[Masterz1337]

So Israel is ordering it's soldiers to kill farmers for fun? Or is this just the work of a few hatefull loons? I'm a bit confused.

[Bodzilla]

israel's commanders arnt discouraging it, they're allowing it to happen and there's been people and rabbi's making genocidal hate speech's.
so whether or not they're saying go pick off those farmers or not remains to be seen but everything else just makes it look really, really bad for israel's credibility.

[Cojafoji]

Ugh, for every one atrocity that we see, 10 more happen on each side. Both of these people are responsible here. Don't take the nonobjective way out and label the Israeli's as purely responsible.

[Bodzilla]

i didnt say they where, i said it's not being discouraged, but instead it's being allowed to happen. no ones innocent, but i think the guys that where giving millions of dollars to in weapons and money should be held to a much much higher standard.

you cant preach from the high ground, if in order to get it you stood on top of corpses from the other guys.

[RobertGraham]

i didnt say they where, i said it's not being discouraged, but instead it's being allowed to happen. no ones innocent, but i think the guys that where giving millions of dollars to in weapons and money should be held to a much much higher standard.

you cant preach from the high ground, if in order to get it you stood on top of corpses from the other guys.
And who are we to stop them? We have our own problems to handle, such as Economy. We really don't need to go in there and start blasting away at their military to prove a point. In a sense, I really do think that UN leaders need to sit down and discuss this, and try to settle this. I do partially blame the Israeli Military for this, but there are probably other problems other then military in this situation. Religion, Land, Politics, etc.

In this case, I see this as "Greasers against the Socials".

Like I said, UN needs to discuss this. Look up the Hutu and Tutsi ordeal that happened in Africa. We don't want another one of those.

[Masterz1337]

But it's just rouge soldiers then, our soldiers have done that also. You can't hold a country responsible for the acts of random people. What do rabbis do in the Israeli government?

[SnaFuBAR]

And who are we to stop them?
Well for one we could actually stop sending the Israelis billions in weaponry.

[TVTyrant]

War is hell, and it will never change.

And I'm sorry to whoever said that we never should have created a Jewish state, but I completely disagree.
The Palestinians know nothing of the pain that the jews have felt. I'm not talking about the holocaust, I'm talking about world history. They have had the most strife of ant group of people in history.
I'm not saying their right to go and shoot farmers. Indeed my previous statement said that was wrong, but I have no problem with the Jewish state nor their wars with the Palestinian and Arabic peoples.
The Palestinians have it bad right now, true, and the treatment their receiving is indeed unfair. But they elected Hamas. Deal with it. When you elect terrorists, learn to deal with the consequences. Especially when your opponent is one severely pissed off country who has had nothing but aggression from its neighbors for 50 years.

[RobertGraham]

Well for one we could actually stop sending the Israelis billions in weaponry.
The US doesn't control that. Its the Contractors that are doing this, and they are protected under law since they pretty much have a License to Produce for the US, and allies, they cannot distribute to a country we are at war with [obviously], and they can do whatever with their products, as long as the people buying from them have either a License or their law states that they are eligible to purchase weapons. Such as their Government. So basically, we can do nothing.

[SnaFuBAR]

War is hell, and it will never change.

And I'm sorry to whoever said that we never should have created a Jewish state, but I completely disagree.
The Palestinians know nothing of the pain that the jews have felt. I'm not talking about the holocaust, I'm talking about world history. They have had the most strife of ant group of people in history.
I'm not saying their right to go and shoot farmers. Indeed my previous statement said that was wrong, but I have no problem with the Jewish state nor their wars with the Palestinian and Arabic peoples.
The Palestinians have it bad right now, true, and the treatment their receiving is indeed unfair. But they elected Hamas. Deal with it. When you elect terrorists, learn to deal with the consequences. Especially when your opponent is one severely pissed off country who has had nothing but aggression from its neighbors for 50 years.

Look at you, look how dumb you sound.

[Masterz1337]

Look at you, look how rude you sound.

[TVTyrant]

Look at you, look how dumb you sound.
Please explain what you don't like about my statement.

[RobertGraham]

War is hell, and it will never change.

And I'm sorry to whoever said that we never should have created a Jewish state, but I completely disagree.
The Palestinians know nothing of the pain that the jews have felt. I'm not talking about the holocaust, I'm talking about world history. They have had the most strife of ant group of people in history.
I'm not saying their right to go and shoot farmers. Indeed my previous statement said that was wrong, but I have no problem with the Jewish state nor their wars with the Palestinian and Arabic peoples.
The Palestinians have it bad right now, true, and the treatment their receiving is indeed unfair. But they elected Hamas. Deal with it. When you elect terrorists, learn to deal with the consequences. Especially when your opponent is one severely pissed off country who has had nothing but aggression from its neighbors for 50 years.
That was all over the place, could you sort your thoughts out please?

[Joshflighter]

Look at you, look how dumb you sound.


Snaf, you went over this before. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean he is dumb. Like really....

[Huero]

Snaf, you went over this before. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean he is dumb. Like really....

Like totally.

But yeah, the Israeli gov't needs to crack down on their guys (like that'll ever happen, it's Israel lol)

[Joshflighter]

Like totally.

But yeah, the Israeli gov't needs to crack down on their guys (like that'll ever happen, it's Israel lol)


Now you are just making fun.. lol...

Anyways, anyone who kills someone should "go to hell" as others would say.

Don't care what nation. What gives someone the right to shoot someone else with a gun or not? But what gives the other person the right to shoot at the guy with the other gun or not?

And they say there will be peace? :rolleyes:

(Were all damn human! Were not supposed to be killed by humans! >:U)

[Huero]

go away and come back when you're more intelligent.
(ps sometimes when someone kills others its not their fault. see there's this thing called self defense; that would be the OTHER guy with a gun.)
(pps HEY GUESS WHAT
other animals in other species kill each other and shite
JUST LETTING YOU KNOW)

[Joshflighter]

go away and come back when you're more i
ntelligent.
(ps sometimes when someone kills others its not their fault. see there's this thing called self defense; that would be the OTHER guy with a gun.)
(pps HEY GUESS WHAT
other animals in other species kill each other and shite
JUST LETTING YOU KNOW)

So you are saying you are at the intelligence of an animal? Cool to know.

PS: I wonder what you consider intelligence. :o

Edit: if you read my previous post I clearly stated that no one has the right to kill... There fore if no one did, there wouldn't be a need for self defence, smart guy.

[Cojafoji]

Like I said before, and after having gauged more of your reactions, it's more apparent than ever that you all have some severe bias to work through. Yes we provide Israel with weapons, because they are technically a democracy, and we need to support them in that area, because they are surrounded by countries who impose Islamic Sharia law. On the other side of the argument, the Israeli's have been heavy handed in not only their anti-terror tactics but in their 'resettlement' opportunities...

[rossmum]

And who are we to stop them? We have our own problems to handle, such as Economy. We really don't need to go in there and start blasting away at their military to prove a point. In a sense, I really do think that UN leaders need to sit down and discuss this, and try to settle this. I do partially blame the Israeli Military for this, but there are probably other problems other then military in this situation. Religion, Land, Politics, etc.

In this case, I see this as "Greasers against the Socials".

Like I said, UN needs to discuss this. Look up the Hutu and Tutsi ordeal that happened in Africa. We don't want another one of those.
Uh, hostile, armed intervention isn't the only way you can 'stop' things, duder.

In any case, while the Jews have copped it from basically everyone for as far back as anyone can remember, that's no justification for Israel to start dishing out similar on anyone else. They certainly have a right to defend themselves, but all too often this translates into defending themselves and then going out for the blood of anyone and everyone connected with the attack in the first place, with no respect for other nations' territory. The establishment of Israel was a cockup in that nobody even considered talking to the locals about it, and as a result they basically dumped all the refugees out of Europe on a piece of land which, regardless of who originally owned it, was now populated by someone else who didn't take kindly to it. Perhaps if they'd put a little thought into it and sorted out some kind of agreement beforehand, there wouldn't be any trouble with the neighbours, so to speak.

[Bodzilla]

Snaf, you went over this before. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean he is dumb. Like really....
thats not what he's saying, he's saying how poorly his opinion has been thought out.
It's not that he has an opinion, it's what his opinion consists of and his incoherent expression of it.

just sounds like he's spouting shit he heard off fox news.

[TVTyrant]

I never said that Israel just gets to go fuck up whoever they want. I said they have the right to exist as a state. I don't like the fact that the United States continued to fund their armed forces either, but at this point its a little late for that. And I really agree with Rossmum about the fact that it should have been set up with local leaders and elders before the establishment of the state. But we can't change that.
I'm not saying its okay to shoot up farmers. I'm not saying that either side is in the right. All I was saying was that Israel has a right to exist as a state. Thats it.

[SnaFuBAR]

War is hell, and it will never change.

And I'm sorry to whoever said that we never should have created a Jewish state, but I completely disagree.
The Palestinians know nothing of the pain that the jews have felt. I'm not talking about the holocaust, I'm talking about world history. They have had the most strife of ant group of people in history.
I'm not saying their right to go and shoot farmers. Indeed my previous statement said that was wrong, but I have no problem with the Jewish state nor their wars with the Palestinian and Arabic peoples.
The Palestinians have it bad right now, true, and the treatment their receiving is indeed unfair. But they elected Hamas. Deal with it. When you elect terrorists, learn to deal with the consequences. Especially when your opponent is one severely pissed off country who has had nothing but aggression from its neighbors for 50 years.

Oh so we should give the Arabs part of Europe because the Christians don't understand what they've been through historically with Persia and ever since the 11th century though today being persecuted and invaded by Christians. Thus i have no problem with their jihads and crashing planes into buildings. That's what happens when you elect terrorists, deal with it, learn to deal with the consequences. Especially when your opponent is severely pissed off because you've been directly interfering with it for 10 centuries.

cool story bro.

Seriously that's what you sound like.

[Maniac]

Its funny because its true.

I am not a religious person so i really dont know but its it not true that the Israeli's were always nomadic people who never truly had a "home".
Till they came back from the desert claiming that God had told them to live to live where Israel is now, with the 7 tribes of Judah?

[Joshflighter]

Well put it like this. America belongs to the native Indians, but hell even the native Indians weren't here till they came from Europe. Heh, and then different parts of Europe belong to different countries inside.

Really, it doesn't really fucking matter who lives where now. What has been done has been done. No one is going to move Israel. If anyone tries, then basically they are declaring war.

The issue is about killing, not about if a country is allowed to be there or not.


It all comes down to unethical and moral issues on both sides. :)

Argue with that, and that REALLY must make you retarded. Anyways, I dont really care... I love seeing these arguments though.. they never get anywhere.

[Maniac]

I never meant that, i was looking for enlightenment.
Im not saying that anyone should leave.
I just wanted to know if i was correct. :)

[Sel]

Why do I bother reading this thread? It always turns out being the same argument between the same people :downs:

[Limited]

Thought I'd sum up a few things...

It's a shame people don't understand Philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy). Life goes on. Its nothing new.
I know, that last post sounded really fucked up.
The problem is, we're talking about war, where life does not go on. We're not just talking about two countries giving each other a nasty look, or having a bitchfest verbally. Military action is being involved.


Ugh, for every one atrocity that we see, 10 more happen on each side. Both of these people are responsible here. Don't take the nonobjective way out and label the Israeli's as purely responsible.
The issue still stands, yes we may miss 10 others, what is vital is when we see any of it, we act accordingly, fast and strong. We need to make an example out of Israel and the situation so that other countries know its illegal to do so and there will be consequences.


And who are we to stop them? We have our own problems to handle, such as Economy. We really don't need to go in there and start blasting away at their military to prove a point. In a sense, I really do think that UN leaders need to sit down and discuss this, and try to settle this. I do partially blame the Israeli Military for this, but there are probably other problems other then military in this situation. Religion, Land, Politics, etc.

In this case, I see this as "Greasers against the Socials".

Like I said, UN needs to discuss this. Look up the Hutu and Tutsi ordeal that happened in Africa. We don't want another one of those.
We? As in US? No one said oh only US needs to sort this, the UN needs to.

[TVTyrant]

Oh so we should give the Arabs part of Europe because the Christians don't understand what they've been through historically with Persia and ever since the 11th century though today being persecuted and invaded by Christians. Thus i have no problem with their jihads and crashing planes into buildings. That's what happens when you elect terrorists, deal with it, learn to deal with the consequences. Especially when your opponent is severely pissed off because you've been directly interfering with it for 10 centuries.

cool story bro.

Seriously that's what you sound like.
Indeed we have been. But you know what? People are dying on both sides. Israel deserves to be its own country because they fought for it. Look up the war for Israeli independence, in which nobody helped them. America didn't support them until they won.War isn't about politics or what people believe, its about who wins. And you know what? Their still winning.

[SnaFuBAR]

Indeed we have been. But you know what? People are dying on both sides. Israel deserves to be its own country because they fought for it. Look up the war for Israeli independence, in which nobody helped them. America didn't support them until they won.War isn't about politics or what people believe, its about who wins. And you know what? Their still winning.
So I guess the Palestinians deserve their land back because they're fighting for it. I mean, certainly, the Palestinians didn't deserve the Brits breaking the land up and giving it to the Jews in reparation for the holocaust. PS, Israel's goal has been to capture as much land as possible, eliminate Hamaas, etc, and guess what? They're NOT winning. Palestinians remain defiant in the face of a terrorist nation, Israel.

[TVTyrant]

I'm sure their not winning when the 'soldiers' of Palesitine's elected government run away with their tales between their legs. I'm sure their not winning when they haven't even been using a quarter of their forces. And I'm sure their not winning when they cause 100 times the casualties they recieve, and the leaders of Hamas are forced to sign a peace treaty because their losing too many people. Thats my idea of a loss, yep :rolleyes:

Also, I agree with Josh. This isn't going to get anywhere. I have my own beliefs and you have yours. You can continue to believe I'm stupid if you wish, and I'll continue to believe the same about you. After all, isn't that what the internets about? xD
Also, my previous post was wrong. No one helped them except the Brits, who their only reason for helping was because the Egyptians bombed a British air base. That was my bad.

[SnaFuBAR]

Well put it like this. America belongs to the native Indians, but hell even the native Indians weren't here till they came from Europe.
:giggle: Oh that's golden.

[SnaFuBAR]

I'm sure their not winning when the 'soldiers' of Palesitine's elected government run away with their tales between their legs. I'm sure their not winning when they haven't even been using a quarter of their forces. And I'm sure their not winning when they cause 100 times the casualties they recieve, and the leaders of Hamas are forced to sign a peace treaty because their losing too many people. Thats my idea of a loss, yep :rolleyes:

Also, I agree with Josh. This isn't going to get anywhere. I have my own beliefs and you have yours. You can continue to believe I'm stupid if you wish, and I'll continue to believe the same about you. After all, isn't that what the internets about? xD
Also, my previous post was wrong. No one helped them except the Brits, who their only reason for helping was because the Egyptians bombed a British air base. That was my bad.
Fact: you win wars when objectives are completed.

[Joshflighter]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_Native_Americans_migrate_from_before _settling_in_North_America

Snaf your a really big idiot.. you know that right? Don't negative rep me with shit you dont even seem to know.

[SnaFuBAR]

PS, the Siberian part they're refering to is Eurasia, and most commonly it's held that the native Americans came from Eurasia/Asia.

HTH

PS: about rep, read the rules, you're not allowed to hand out + or - rep with rep disabled. hth too

[Disaster]

I lol'd

Siberia is in asia.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/542569/Siberia

[SnaFuBAR]

we're off topic, closed.