Free Speech and Internet Censorship

[Dwood]

In australia http://nocleanfeed.com/

From the above site



What do we know so far?



Filtering will be mandatory in all homes and schools across the country.1 (http://nocleanfeed.com/learn.html#f1)
The clean feed will censor material that is "harmful and inappropriate" for children.2 (http://nocleanfeed.com/learn.html#f2)
The filter will require a massive expansion of the ACMA's blacklist of prohibited content.3 (http://nocleanfeed.com/learn.html#f3)
The Government wants to use dynamic filters of questionable accuracy that slow the internet down by an average of 30%.4 (http://nocleanfeed.com/learn.html#f4)
The filtering will target legal as well as illegal material.5 (http://nocleanfeed.com/learn.html#f5)
$44m has been budgeted for the implementation of this scheme so far.6 (http://nocleanfeed.com/learn.html#f6)
The clean-feed for children will be opt-out, but a second filter will be mandatory for all Internet users.7 (http://nocleanfeed.com/learn.html#f7)
A live pilot deployment is going ahead in the near future.

What we don't know is just as important.



What age level is the country's Internet to be made appropriate for? 15? 10? 5 years old?
Who decides what material is "appropriate" for Australians to see?
How are lists of "illegal" material compiled?
Who will maintain the blacklist of prohibited sites?
How can sites mistakenly added to the list be removed?



It's almost as scary as The Patriot act.

[Jean-Luc]

What...the fuck.


*Gets Bod and Ross over here*
Explain you two.

[TeeKup]

Wow really?

[Joshflighter]

Talk about freedom. :|

[teh lag]

You'd think that the level to which China's filters are evaded would discourage this in other countries. I could go on about how much this is an affront to the concepts of liberty and such, but I think we're all thinking the same thing.

[Dwood]

Why of course we are thinking the same thing, that this is bad but hey, they need to know what's happening: Members of the Australian public aren't even allowed to know what's on the Bill in the first place until it's signed unless the Prime Minister etc say stuff.

[ICEE]

Holy shit. What a pathetic move by the Australian government... Beautiful country, but I think the concept and symbolism of this act is just too huge for me to deal with if I lived there. Bummer aussie guys :/

[Rook]

Censorship is the devil, the Australian government is now the devil -- America is next. :fail:

[ICEE]

Since when does America take after Australia? We forge our OWN road to the devil thanksverymuch

[RobertGraham]

What the fuck kind of shit is this? No more TPB?

[Warsaw]

Censorship is the devil, the Australian government is now the devil -- America is next. :fail:

Noes...we have Obama now. Unless you are into Dane's conspiracy theories, I don't think America will do this...we aren't that prude anymore; perhaps 20-30 years ago, maybe.

Sucks for you guys in Upside-down Land, I hope the public speaks out with enough force to overturn the Bill, and if it does get passed, that in the next election it all gets reversed.

[LlamaMaster]

I raged for a bit, but then I calmed down because I live in the US. Sucks to be you guys. :(

[Bodzilla]

there's been protests going on for a while now, i posted a thread about this like a year ago.

it still hasnt been implemented.

but i hope you can see first hand the danger of voting Fundamentalists into power.
It's never worked for the better, ever.

For something as drastic as this they really need a referendum.

[Phopojijo]

Another case of "Protecting Children from the Internet" being used to allow in restrictions on the internet.

"Protect the kids... however the one that doesn't protect the kids ISN'T opt-outable"

If this was really about the kids, the law would be to require to ISPs to provide the service "Block all known bad websites" opt-in only.

[n00b1n8R]

What...the fuck.


*Gets Bod and Ross over here*
Explain you two.
Hey :maddowns:

PS: It will not happen, it's a direct breach of the law (In Australia, you cannot be forced to opt out of anything, but rather you must choose to opt in).

[Dwood]

Hey :maddowns:

PS: It will not happen, it's a direct breach of the law (In Australia, you cannot be forced to opt out of anything, but rather you must choose to opt in).

That's what people said about gun laws in America. That the Supreme court would protect us. Look people don't elect people when the intent of what they want is clear!

[Warsaw]

Well, the DC gun ban was deemed unconstitutional...now all they need to do is hit California with something similar.

[Limited]

Fuck That.

This is ludacrious, I doubt it iwll ever happen, but still people thinking about it might be like "well, totally blocking is crazy, however many just clamping down on certain parts".

I totally agree with blocking the really bad things (child porn and extremist shit) but forcing this crap about filtering out other stuff is stupid.

It completing goes against the reason the World Wide Web was created.

[Warsaw]

I have a question for all you British/Commonwealth country members:

Is there some kind of "Big Brother" sentiment that seems to pervade your society? And I don't mean that there's oppression, I mean that the masses desire some kind of overall influence of government in their lives.

[rossmum]

Over here our government has a strange habit of tinkering with that sort of thing. On the face of it they might not seem so bad, but between the OFLC and Conroy, there's a clear attempt to control what's 'appropriate' for Australians. But no, we want them to fuck right off. The only people who want this are the computer-illiterate old people who think that their grandkids will be bombarded with porn or e-molested the moment they connect to the internet, or the extremist religious nuts who are against aforementioned porn, gambling, and all those other terrible destroyers of humanity. The Catholic Church out here is going beserk because TAB are allowing bets to be placed over Easter, which confuses me since they have no place to dictate terms to anyone bar Catholics. What confuses me even more is that the Premier actually wants to help them block it, but legally, he can't, as TAB are a private business and aren't actually breaking any laws. I do so love the so-called separation of church and state, I guess we picked that up from you guys.

As far as the filter goes, both Bodie and I have posted about this in the past. It's going nowhere; we suspected the government would just let it die quietly to spare themselves further outrage, but it seems they've chosen to do otherwise. I still have an angry letter to send off to Conroy, actually - I should get around to that.

Basically, the government in power is by default utterly incapable of appointing ministers to portfolios they actually know the first fucking detail about, hence this piece of idiocy, transportation systems that go nowhere, and godawful health (in NSW, at least), and our wonderfully sensible gun laws.

e/ Oh, I forgot. We have no right to free speech. Australia has no bill of rights.

[Warsaw]

I see. Some people over here are of the opinion that Britain and former British colonies all share a "Big Brother" sentiment in that they have the government involved in their personal day to day affairs and that it is considered weird when there is no tampering.

Also Australia is a Commonwealth Nation, which affords some rights protection, considering the Harare Declaration. Still, should get on that Bill of Rights...

[rossmum]

We are, but there hasn't been much done about it. The Government very seldom does anything important, they just hand out free money and say sorry like they mean it and suddenly nearly the whole country is in the palm of their hand.

It's pathetic.

[Warsaw]

Yes, well at least it isn't as money-leeching and overtly corporate-subsidized like Congress...it's disgusting really...

[Bodzilla]

e/ Oh, I forgot. We have no right to free speech. Australia has no bill of rights.
i know, and it scares the shit out of me.

[rossmum]

Yes, well at least it isn't as money-leeching and overtly corporate-subsidized like Congress...it's disgusting really...
Why do you think developers are allowed to run amok in this country?

[Warsaw]

Do you have a government bailing out big banks and business instead of letting them fall naturally as is the way it should be with capitalism?

[rossmum]

It attempted to with some of our own, like Holden; but like I said, developers have almost a free reign to do what they please here. NSW is the worst example, much like in every other regard - how the state was stupid enough to re-elect Labor after Carr is beyond me.

[Bodzilla]

Do you have a government bailing out big banks and business instead of letting them fall naturally as is the way it should be with capitalism?
of course we are, america dun dun it so it must be coo.

>:U!!!!

and ross your not alone on the developing bullshit.
shit leaves me cold how these fucks eat up such large amounts of land and break it all up into tiny lots without EVEN A FUCKING BACKYARD, you know something thats part of OUR AUSTRALIAN HERITAGE. and people are forced into these places because theres no alternative.
not to mention the effects on the environment around us and ERGHHH

shit leaves me fucking cold and jaded.

[Warsaw]

We have the same issue with development in the US, though in our case it is controlled by the States and not the Federal government, and we have less say in that than the Fed.

I say purge Congress, and then amend the Constitution with limits to congressman/women's terms and making pork-barrelling and earmarking illegal, especially if said earmarks are non-Germane. Pity it will never happen.

[rossmum]

of course we are, america dun dun it so it must be coo.

>:U!!!!

and ross your not alone on the developing bullshit.
shit leaves me cold how these fucks eat up such large amounts of land and break it all up into tiny lots without EVEN A FUCKING BACKYARD, you know something thats part of OUR AUSTRALIAN HERITAGE. and people are forced into these places because theres no alternative.
not to mention the effects on the environment around us and ERGHHH

shit leaves me fucking cold and jaded.
I know, it's shameful. Bulldoze a few acres of bushland and build the same three houses fifty times over, so close you could lean out of the windows and hold hands with your nextdoor neighbour. There's no privacy at all, I don't know how people can stand it.

Then, of course, we have these bastards trying to force oldies into nursing homes so they can buy out three or four consecutive blocks off a main road and build 'luxury townhouses'. They've already tried it on with my nanna, good bloody luck to them trying it again while I'm here. I hate them with a passion, they have absolutely no shame.

[Warsaw]

Welcome to Europe/America.

[Dwood]

Welcome to Europe/America.

Hey, America actually gives you a backyard. Unless you live in the North East or California.

[Warsaw]

Does Virginia count as the North East (c'mon, Civil War's been over long enough)? All of the new housing lots I see have no small square patch of yard, and are exactly ass Ross described. The only reason I have two acres is because I live in a privately-owned neighborhood (no HOA though).

[Dwood]

Does Virginia count as the North East (c'mon, Civil War's been over long enough)? All of the new housing lots I see have no small square patch of yard, and are exactly Ross described. The only reason I have two acres is because I live in a privately-owned neighborhood (no HOA though).

Geographically, no but ideologically, yes. If you want space move into the midwest. Contrary to public opinion and belief Texas and Oklahoma schools are actually pretty good. Neighborhoods are awesome huge yards + HOA.

It's not like in FL where we have nazi HOA members.

[rossmum]

My old house had a pretty huge backyard (as big as one of the houses in question, easily) and the house itself was massive. There are still a lot of normal homes around here, but the overwhelming majority of new construction projects are all apartments, townhouses, retirement villages (the Central Coast is like New South Wales's answer to Florida) and housing estates.

[Warsaw]

It's not like in FL where we have nazi HOA members.

B-but....I liked Florida...:saddowns:.

Why? Australia isn't even anywhere near as populated as a place like the US. Is it because the only "habitable" regions are located in a small area?

[rossmum]

Everyone wants to live either by the sea, or in the bush... near the sea.

The only people you'll find west of the Blue Mountains in this state (who actually want to be there) are farmers or come from farming families.

[Bodzilla]

It's a major concern for me due to my life style, i like my music, my porn my guitar and i sing.... very loudly.

i dont want to have put up sound proofing everywhere because these assholes have forced everybody to live in each others pockets.

the group house i'm in now is built on a farm and is an old run down house with paddocks around it, compared to the shit you see everywhere else it's fucking awesome.

there needs to be some legislation on the minimum size of the land for house blocks. people need to get away from each other because if they cant.... well we've all seen the end results of that.

[Hotrod]

That's one of the reasons I love living in Canada, it's one huge country, and our population isn't all that big. Therefore, each person has more room to live in, and aren't forced to move around (for the most part). Even in the city, in those large neighborhoods, people have enough space and privacy.

[ICEE]

I live in california. I could piss from my bedroom into my neighbors living room. I don't feel particularly oppressed by it, thats life when you live in a high populated area near the beaches.

[Bodzilla]

Protip australia is fucking huge as well, we have the room.
it's just the developers arnt allowing us to have it.

[Ifafudafi]

Fuck yeah central Texas suburbs

On topic, I doubt this will actually happen without some sort of civilian uprising. But hey, if it gets too bad, you guys could always move to the US. :v:

[ICEE]

Protip australia is fucking huge as well, we have the room.
it's just the developers arnt allowing us to have it.

Same here. There are whole countries that are geographically smaller than my state. Our police force could probably conquer some of those countries come to think of it...

[TVTyrant]

I'm in Oregon. We've got lots of open green fields, one acre lots in town, and forests. And then across the street we keep all the Californians who came for Intel locked into a tiny housing development...

[jngrow]

Do you have a government bailing out big banks and business instead of letting them fall naturally as is the way it should be with capitalism?

While I agree that most of it was bullshit, and a lot of those companies deserved what happened to them, U.S. isn't actually pure capitalist.

[Warsaw]

I know, China is more capitalist than the US. It's just that the government is run by a few very large corporations/trusts.

[Huero]

B-but....I liked Florida...:saddowns:.

You did?
It's a nice place until you start noticing what's really going on around you.

[rossmum]

Protip australia is fucking huge as well, we have the room.
it's just the developers arnt allowing us to have it.
That and almost nobody who comes out here wants to live in the desert. Ask anyone about why they'd come to Australia on holiday or permanently, you'll get the same answer: beaches.

[Huero]

I wouldn't mind living in the desert; it'd be nice having such a quiet environment.

[rossmum]

THE BLACKLIST HAS BEEN LEAKED

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/03/19/1237054961100.html


But about half of the sites on the list are not related to child porn and include a slew of online poker sites, YouTube links, regular gay and straight porn sites, Wikipedia entries, euthanasia sites, websites of fringe religions such as satanic sites, fetish sites, Christian sites, the website of a tour operator and even a Queensland dentist.

[Bodzilla]

el oh fucking :smith:

[Rentafence]

You guys could come to America :haw:

[Bodzilla]

BRB reading up on this queensland dentist.

he must be into some fucked up shit :haw:

[Hotrod]

BRB reading up on this queensland dentist.

he must be into some fucked up shit :haw:
Tell us more when you find out what he did. :haw:

[rossmum]

Apparently some Russian lot plastered his site in porn links ages ago, and he fixed it and switched servers. I guess that's not good enough for ACMA or Conjob Conroy.

[Dwood]

Apparently some Russian lot plastered his site in porn links ages ago, and he fixed it and switched servers. I guess that's not good enough for ACMA or Conjob Conroy.


lulz. I looked at the Wikileaks.org and it seems that most of the sites are pr0n.

[Bodzilla]

Messing with a mans Pr0n is a serious no go.

"when your pushed, killing is as easy as breathing"
-Rambo.

[InnerGoat]

Lmao some of the chans are on the list, but only parts of the sites :lolugh:

[ExAm]

/b/ is /b/anned. Sorry Noob :C

[Hotrod]

Lmao some of the chans are on the list, but only parts of the sites :lolugh:
Ok, what are chans anyway? I've always heard of them, seen things from them, but never knew what they were.

[Boo Diddly]

Ok, what are chans anyway? I've always heard of them, seen things from them, but never knew what they were.

Think of them like this; a bunch of nerds huddled around a dirty magazine making comments and stupidity about it. Other people look at them as what they are, yet they think they are "teh best!!1one!".




Anywase back on topic, that blows hard. I mean really, how exactly are they going to enforce the block when someone can bypass it or get the internet some other way?

[Mass]

I mean really, how exactly are they going to enforce the block when someone can bypass it or get the internet some other way?

They're not.

[Pooky]

Contrary to public opinion and belief Texas and Oklahoma schools are actually pretty good.

AHAHAHAHAHA :lmao:


Ok, what are chans anyway? I've always heard of them, seen things from them, but never knew what they were.

You're better off not knowing...

[rossmum]

lulz. I looked at the Wikileaks.org and it seems that most of the sites are pr0n.
'Most of' doesn't justify it, nor does the fact that there are some perfectly legal ones in there too. Kiddie porn I can understand, but they have no right to block anything that isn't a definite violation of Australian law - even then, they'd be better off monitoring such sites and then pulling the fuckers who visit them. I'd rather have tolerable internet and a lot of kiddie fiddlers in the nick than I would shitty net and every freak and his dog out there looking for some other way to satisfy themselves.

[Corndogman]

We already have censorship, its this thing called good parenting. Its a rare specimen though.

[Dwood]

We already have censorship, its this thing called good parenting. Its a rare specimen though.

These days, at least.

@ Pooky, yes, Texas does have good schools. It's not like DC and/or Florida (where I live) where we all go to a building and sit all day to appease the lawmakers and then go home and have to go to online schools to get a quality edumacation.

@ Ross. I wasn't justifying the filters or anything. I actually wouldn't care about a porn site filter.... Make people try harder to get it. They would have to go to a torrent *LeGHASP*

[Bodzilla]

you dont understand what this thread is actually about. which is surprising because you made it.

Censorship has never worked and it's a sleeping gun the government should never be allowed to have, cause it will be used and abused, and we will suffer for it, and all for a problem thats impossible and impracticable to enforce.

[Pooky]

@ Pooky, yes, Texas does have good schools. It's not like DC and/or Florida (where I live) where we all go to a building and sit all day to appease the lawmakers and then go home and have to go to online schools to get a quality edumacation.

I live in Texas. My school was garbage. All my friends had garbage schools. My sister has a garbage school. Maybe it's different in your region, but the schools sure aren't great around here.

[Huero]

texas: here be dragons (educationally)

[Ifafudafi]

I teach in Texas, btw.

14 of Newsweek's top 100 American high schools were in Texas. While panhandle/western areas have shit schools, the central Texas places (Dallas, Austin, and even Houston to an extend) actually have some pretty damn good schools. Sadly, being a new teacher, I'm stuck in a po'dunk place nobody's ever heard of, but I myself went to some great places in my childhood.

[rossmum]

Everyone's favourite communications minister is currently on Q&A (ABC show where a panel is faced with a series of questions pertaining to current topics of public interest) pushing the filter for all he's worth; if the arguments my grandmother (who's watching) is coming up with when I point out what a flawed idea it is are anything to go by, he's utterly denying the proven negative aspects of the filter... I watched him carry on about it for a few minutes and then stopped watching when some idiot from 4chan sent in a question via webcam with the usual attempt at being creepy bullshit and everyone stopped taking the issue seriously. Then we had a guy in the audience trying to be witty by saying 1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual... while it's a serious issue, it's hardly comparable yet. Thanks, you fuckwits, you're really helping.

Anyway, once again the argument is that it's only to block currently illegal content, not legal stuff the Government straight up doesn't like; meanwhile the leaked blacklist bears the addresses of several perfectly legit sites which either fall into that category or don't fall into any at all and have no reason for being blocked. The fact that it will do sweet bugger all to actually stop pedos from popping up new sites by the dozen or that it will slow our already pathetic internet to a crawl was completely glossed over and then ignored, and Conroy then went on to say that it was not the be-all and end-all, and would have to be used in conjunction with education, surveillance and more arrests.

If it's not going to actually do what it's meant to, why not just crank up the arrests and catch the bastards before they decide to go make up for the blockage of all their nasty little sites for themselves, and do something about making parents a little more responsible for their children? Why the fuck does our government - and the UK's, from what I've heard - see the need to clamp down on everyone's rights (sorry, forgot, we have none) rather than actually do the useful things that will have a positive effect and will work?

[Bodzilla]

is that on now?

i sent in a question over this internet thing thats been detailing the movement,
Something along the lines of:

What qualifications and educational backround do you have to decide on the rights of internet usage for all australians.
What gives you the right to implement this while ignoring the multitudes of problems and ill side effects including but not limited to, complete by-pass's, legit sites being blocked and the crippling of our already 3rd world internet.

Is this really about protecting the children or is this just a smoke-screen for internet censorship.
How can it be with all the documentation proving it's ineffective, useless and extremely expensive.
who will foot the bill.



No question marks, because we already know the answers.

[rossmum]

It finished at 10:30.

Your best bet would be to whip up a letter and send it off; as I never got around to sending mine (what with the move and all that), I'm going to rewrite it. I didn't really cover everything as well as I could've before.

[n00b1n8R]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN

That is to say:
"We have to be seen to be up and with the times with this newfangled internets so we are going to something everybody will be happy about (helping chidlrenz!!)".
I love how most of those eligible to vote have little to no understanding of the internet.

[rossmum]

yes simply blocking pedo sites rather than using them as traps will help children

especially the ones said pedos will be inclined to molest once their supply of kiddie porn dries up

e/ love this post (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1169695&p=22#r431)