House and Senate Passes National Mandatory Service Bill

[DaneO'Roo]

The Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1388), known as the GIVE Act, was passed yesterday by a 321-105 margin and now goes to the Senate.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/23/national-service-corps-bill-clears-senate-hurdle/

New York Times reporting.


http://www.infowars.com/house-passes-mandatory-national-service-bill/

http://www.infowars.com/give-mandatory-service-act-strips-first-amendment-of-volunteers/

http://www.infowars.com/senate-rubber-stamps-national-enslavement-bill/

http://www.infowars.com/democrats-introduce-public-national-service-bills/

http://www.infowars.com/obama-website-scrubs-mandatory-community-service-call/


It is now law, after many MANY years of foreboding and nay saying, it's here. Compulsory national service, for everyone, including girls, children, everyone.


Happening currently in the US, Britain, and Australia, and other wierd shit, like mass graves being prepared in arizona, among others.


Why?


I'm not going to bother explaining why. I'd rather not have emoticon threads again. Just figure it out for yourself.

XUJKO2xFmyw

Watch the 4 parts, all the articles and video proof are shown.

They are saying this on national television, on major media websites. COMPULSORY NATIONAL SERVICE, dubbed by the media "the million man army"
I'm trying to dig up more links as I find them, only got passed within the last 24 hours, without a word or mutter to anyone about it. I'm sure tommorow, or today it'll be everywhere, since it is now, physical, tangible law.

[Warsaw]

Catherine Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
WHERE DOES IT SAY IN THE BILL THAT IT IS MANDATORY? JUST SHOW ME THAT, IT SAYS IT IS VOLUNTARY AS FAR AS I CAN TELL…I JUST LOOKED OVER IT, PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IT SAYS IT IS MANDATORY….
Reply (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29)
http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a8cba0f3e631d6eb82f602fe7bbfd842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad51650 3a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G



TheGhost Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
they retracted that part and changed it to voluntary already, keep up stupid
Reply (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29)




Good job.
(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29)

[Rentafence]

Endgame, suit up. Even if the mandatory part was removed, it's still disturbing it got that far before it was edited.

[Warsaw]

I'm buying a rifle anyways...not to mention I wouldn't pass a physical. Doesn't bother me at all, even if it were true.

Besides, if it were mandatory, it violates the First Amendment (sorry Aussies, you guys don't have a BoR), so if they imprison anyone refusing, the Supreme Court will call the act unconstitutional in an appeal.

[Rentafence]

Besides, if it were mandatory, it violates the First Amendment (sorry Aussies, you guys don't have a BoR), so if they imprison anyone refusing, the Supreme Court will call the act unconstitutional in an appeal.

No rights are guaranteed. Ask the Japanese Americans during WW2.

[Warsaw]

This is a little different, because this doesn't target a specific group of people. Not to mention, Democrats don't control the Supreme Court.

[DaneO'Roo]

pfft good job defending yourselves anyway, they're going to take away your guns, very soon. You watch.

[Warsaw]

That too would be a violation of the constitution. No act passed by Congress can do that. I can see them taking away hand-guns and "assault weapons," but bolt-action rifles are a long shot.

[Rentafence]

That too would be a violation of the constitution. No act passed by Congress can do that. I can see them taking away hand-guns and "assault weapons," but bolt-action rifles are a long shot.

You act like our rights are always assured, even when people don't fight to protect them.

[rossmum]

Mass graves?

Get serious. I know that governments like to throw their weight around but I'm getting sick to bloody death of the endless barrage of "OH MY GOD MODERN CONCENTRATION CAMPS MASS GRAVES JEWS WORLD DOMINATION 9/11 HURF DURF" that I seem to cop every time I check any forum. It's utterly beyond me how anyone could even entertain the thought of that bullshit having any base in fact at all, let alone how otherwise intelligent people end up mindless drones who spout whatever they saw on x conspiracy site.

Here's a conspiracy for you: some joker is spinning crap and then forcing it down people's throats, knowing full well that some are going to believe it for whatever reason and then help them in furthering their own agenda. What makes you think you can trust these lot any more than you can trust the government?

[MetKiller Joe]

I read the NY Times article.



Tonight’s vote, propelled by President Obama’s urging of an expansion, would mean a growth in such work from 75,000 community service jobs to 250,000.




a major expansion of a national service corps, a cornerstone of volunteerism that dates back to the era of President Kennedy




an army dispersed to help with education, health services and the environment, would vastly enlarge the notion of “community organizing,” and allow, as Senator Barbara Mikulski, Democrat of Maryland, said tonight, for about 7 million people to be engaged in such work.



Read history. It is the New Deal all over again. It is meant to create jobs (from what I take from it).

[Warsaw]

^Exactly what I mean. VOLUNTARY.

@rentafence: People may not defend our rights, but if they try to force an unconstitutional act on me, I will personally fight it.

Again though, the idea that this act is the next fascist move is bollocks. Mass graves my ass...show me a satellite photograph from several trustworthy sources, and maybe I'll start believing it. No, Infowars is not a trustworthy source, since it's run by conspiracy theorists.

"SIEG HEIL! ALL HAIL OBAMA!"
"Send your Children to the Adolf Obama youth camps!"
"Obama is our saviour!"
"Today, 1 September 2009, The United Socialist States of America launched it's invasion of Mexico."

Seriously, come on.

[Sel]

Endgame, suit up. Even if the mandatory part was removed, it's still disturbing it got that far before it was edited.

Yeah, really.

Glad we all live in a wonderful democracy guys :downsgun:

[Anton]

I lol'd at the original post a little but you know, thats me.

Isn't this the bill that would allow students and others alike to be able to volunteer to get educational credit? or is that another bill that I am hearing of?

[rossmum]

^Exactly what I mean. VOLUNTARY.

@rentafence: People may not defend our rights, but if they try to force an unconstitutional act on me, I will personally fight it.

Again though, the idea that this act is the next fascist move is bollocks. Mass graves my ass...show me a satellite photograph from several trustworthy sources, and maybe I'll start believing it. No, Infowars is not a trustworthy source, since it's run by conspiracy theorists.

"SIEG HEIL! ALL HAIL OBAMA!"
"Send your Children to the Adolf Obama youth camps!"
"Obama is our saviour!"
"Today, 1 September 2009, The United Socialist States of America launched it's invasion of Mexico."

Seriously, come on.
obama is a jew puppet the jews are taking over the world and building concentration camps!!! btw the holocaust was a lie

(this is a serious conspiracy theory, not even joking, seen it many times)

[teh lag]

Let's take a look at where this analysis is coming from (as I sincerely believe that nobody here is going to try to decipher that bill - go ahead and prove me wrong though; I'd like to see what's actually in it). Since this is all we've got to go on regarding what this bill actually does, I think we should scrutinize it abit.

The first thing that sets off my BS-o-meter is the title of this article : "senate rubber stamps national enslavement bill." My my, how objective that is! I find it hard to take seriously anything that follows when the title is so blatantly loaded with scare-tactics that are so common to conspiracy theories. Just looking into the first paragraph reveals more of the same :

The Senate last night rubber stamped a nightmare (:eek:) domestic draft bill that legislates mandatory national service and creates an “army” (:eek: :eek:) of at least 7 million civilian enforcers working at the the behest of the government (:eek: :eek: :eek:), while also containing language that threatens to ban free speech and the right to protest (:eek: x4!).

Take a step back and look at what they're saying. Does it sound like something a normal, sane person would write? Telling people that the sky is falling isn't exactly the most credible way to get support. People who already are hooked lap it up without a second thought, but especially when it comes to accusations of a "New World Order" and an "Army of Enforcers," you need some more well-presented arguments to convince people who don't buy into it.

Second, you do realize that this is about community service, not an armed forces draft? There's (kindof) a big difference between teaching people how to organize things and teaching people how to be soldier-slaves. If anything we need more of that - our generation is lazy as fuck. This is about getting kids to start volunteering to do stuff. It's not about breeding an army of children to be the slaves of the New World Order™. Your source is taking this into a very loose interpretation and then presenting that interpretation as absolute fact. I honestly cannot trust what they say, as they pretty clearly have an agenda which interferes with their objectivity.

Thirdly, "mass graves"? I would seriously like an explanation as to how you can tell that holes are graves before... you know... they've actually got dead people in there. Again, this train of logic jumps to conclusions and is largely reliant on scare tactics. Yes, I suppose large holes could be used as mass graves - but until there's a shitload of people dying I'm going to need more than a "well they could be for X" explanation.

One last comment : if the New World Order is such a deeply-rooted conspiracy, headed by people who manipulate populations and economies on a whim, what could we possibly do to stop them? If they can get away with digging mass graves and afford to leave such a clear trail for people to find and expose their actions, why would they hesitate to snuff out those that do said exposing? It's not like they've got anything to lose if it so easy to pick up on what they're doing anyhow.

But I suppose I'm saying all this because I've been blinded by the system, right? These guys are using scare tactics because that's the only way to open peoples' eyes to the truth.

[SnaFuBAR]

trying to find HR 1388 in pdf format so i can look it over.

[=sw=warlord]

I refuse to listen to someone who believes trees talk to each other (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=373747&postcount=52) and that obama is hitler in disguise (http://modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14940)
me and a friend have already had a look at the bill, as far as we can see the bill only affects america [durr american bill] and that its not military indoctrination but civil indoctrination [medical services, educational services].
it will certainly be interesting how this turns out.

[Dwood]

HERE YA GO (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1388)

Read the Bill over in Congress-Speak. Hardest thing you could do in your life Teh.

[Warsaw]

I did read some of it on the yellow page. It is a voluntary program geared towards community service on a large scale.

[DarkHalo003]

I believe, and I'm not %100 sure on the facts here, but you only have to have this service IF you don't go to college (rumor) or if you owe the govies (another rumor I heard). I mean, it's basically the same thing as giving Community Service, except you're putting your life slightly on the line. :eyesroll:

Why can't they pass a bill that sends people to school to learn standard tasks for jobs instead of this? Would sure help out our economy/job loss right now.

[Warsaw]

It's like the CCC in the 1930s.

[DarkHalo003]

You know what, this is a little ironic because this seems more Right Wing than Left Wing in a sense. It could just be me over analyzing this though.

[FreedomFighter7]

I am first to say... april fools?!?!

[thehoodedsmack]

I am first to say... april fools?!?!

It's March. : |

[TVTyrant]

This is dumb. Hes creating government jobs, not signing conscription bills. Plus, I'm not afraid of conscription. Too fat :p

[DarkHalo003]

If Obama wants to be adored forever, he should make it to where people are conscripted into Gov't Training Facilities of Knowledge (aka Gov't College) that teach people useful skill to alow them modern jobs, not conscripting them into the militia.

[Warsaw]

This is dumb. Hes creating government jobs, not signing conscription bills. Plus, I'm not afraid of conscription. Too fat :p

You aren't immune buddy, they have weight-loss programs for that in the military.

Me, however, I have an eyesight problem that isn't cureable by LASIK, contacts, glasses, whatever. THAT makes me immune.

[TVTyrant]

Naw dog. 275 pounds and 17 percent body fat.

[CN3089]

some cpr training, a 20 minute explanation of progressive taxation, some helpful tips for exercise/nutrition, and community service

the death of conservatism
heh.


p.s. I've skimmed through the bill and I can't see compulsory anywhere, it looks like it's just expanding existing volunteer organizations, soooo


p.p.s. the v even stands for volunteerism jesus christ you're stupid dane

[rossmum]

heh.


p.s. I've skimmed through the bill and I can't see compulsory anywhere, it looks like it's just expanding existing volunteer organizations, soooo


p.p.s. the v even stands for volunteerism jesus christ you're stupid dane
that's what they want you to think

you're just a sheep man you'll see when they put you in a mass grave don't say you weren't warned

[Warsaw]

V for victory, as in Victory Gin, and Victory Smokes...wait a minute...

[CN3089]

pfft good job defending yourselves anyway, they're going to take away your guns, very soon. You watch.

You say that like it's a bad thing.



http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-smugdog.gif

[rossmum]

You say that like it's a bad thing.



http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-smugdog.gif
don't make me post it again

don't do it

[CN3089]

don't make me post it again

don't do it

STOP, do not trole

furthermore,



haha i just realized something

the way this program is structured, people like you will either be unable to graduate high school or effectively have to pay extra to go to college

it's a program designed to disenfranchise teenage libertarians


I support this initiative fully http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-buddy.gif

[ExAm]

GOLD. Danebar updated.

[SnaFuBAR]

heh, love the title. According to govtrack.us, the senate hasn't even voted on it, and obama hasn't signed it.

Where the fuck are these guys getting their info before screaming and crying about something becoming a slavery law?

[legionaire45]

Umm, yeah....infoworld or whatever sounds like a bunch of ranting lunatics.

How about instead of listening to their reports people start actually reading the docs themselves and figuring some of that stuff out on their own? It's not that difficult (http://tinyurl.com/c26lcy) to get docs and stuff, anyway (http://cryptome.org/). I noticed a few people already did that in this thread; that was smart. Trying to get unbiased and objective news from a website that apparently has some fascination with third world orders, UFO conspiracies and "the jews did it" type things seems rather difficult...

[SnaFuBAR]

close thread, gas

no seriously. this isn't even rational discussion, it's lunatic ravings.

[rossmum]

Umm, yeah....infoworld or whatever sounds like a bunch of ranting lunatics.

How about instead of listening to their reports people start actually reading the docs themselves and figuring some of that stuff out on their own? It's not that difficult (http://tinyurl.com/c26lcy) to get docs and stuff, anyway (http://cryptome.org/).
BECAUSE THOSE ARE FOR THE SHEEP

nevermind the fact every single theory-spewing conspiracy follower in the world is a complete puppet of the idiots who generate said theories, sorry dane but that includes you

better to be a sheep than a puppet bro, at least sheep still have control over themselves

[TVTyrant]

And they have warm fur too :D

[Boo Diddly]

Lawl, several things in that "house-passes-mandatory-national-service-bill" made me laugh. It's so crooked and messed up. Taking things out of context, spinning lies; its just a load of BS.


Section 120 of the bill also discusses the “Youth Engagement Zone Program” and states that “service learning” will be “a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.”


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1388&version=pcs&nid=t0%3Apcs%3A415:

‘(3) YOUTH ENGAGEMENT ZONE PROGRAM- The term ‘youth
engagement zone program’ means a service learning program in which
members of an eligible partnership described in paragraph (4) collaborate
to provide coordinated school-based or community-based service learning
opportunities, to address a specific community challenge, for an
increasing percentage of out-of-school youth and secondary school students
served by local educational agencies where--
‘(A) not less than 90 percent of the students participate in service-
learning activities as part of the program; or
‘(B) service-learning is a mandatory part of the curriculum in all
of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.

This is a definition of the term "Youth Engagement Zone Program". Basically what it is refering to is kids who aren't in school or in secondary schools, which is increasing in numbers, are in a program where they go out and do community services like painting and stuff. This defines that to be a "Youth Engagement Zone Program", the program must not have either less than 90% of the kids are participating in the program or if the service-learning is part of the curriculum of the secondary school.

AKA: Its like a required math course in school, you need to do it if its required by your school.



I'd say something about section 6104 in the bill... but I can't find this mystery section.

[TeeKup]

Dane your posts make it sound like the goddamn draft you hyped-up belligerent psychopath. Seriously dane go outside and fucking get some fresh air.

I don't even know you anymore.

[nooBBooze]

In my opinion, so called conspiracy theorists, try to put developing events into a historical perspective, right as they happen. I'm pretty sure that if one were to confront the people that actually experience the events we now view as historical [or at least as "happened in the past, not too unremarkable"]
with the textbook knowledge we have about said events, they would be quite startled maybe even offended by such an elevated and detachedd perspective that stems from an observer that is not directly involved in what he treats as "history".

I think there's an internal (short-sighted, emotion-laden but inherently human) and an external (cold and empirical, theoretically depriving man of free will rendering him a mere lump of empirical equations) view to everything. As current events progress, our direct, emotional involvement in them [wich also implies a lack of a considerable amount of relevant information] clouds our judgement and with intricate conflicting interpretations of current events [and thus conflicing sociological, historical and economical concepts] merely adding to our confusion, I can see how so called conspiracy theorists are viewed with suspicion. But if you look at other fields of science, like the aforementioned sociology, they also comment and interpret our experienced history occasionally developing far fetched models for the future of humanity.

Imho, it all comes down to ones personal taste in world view.
Durf.

[Boo Diddly]

In my opinion, so called conspiracy theorists, try to make an attempt at putting developing events into a historical perspective as they happen. I'm pretty sure that if one were to confront the people that actually experience the events we read about in history books as current events, they would be quite startled by such an elevated and detachedd perspective that stems from an observer that is not directly involved in what he treats as "history".
I think there's an internal (short-sighted, emotion-laden but inherently human) and an external (cold and empirical, theoretically depriving man of free will rendering him a mere lump of empirical equations) to everything. As current events progress, our direct, emotional involvement in them [wich also implies a lack a considerable amount of relevant information] clouds our judgement and with intricate conflicting interpretations of current events [and thus conflicing sociological, historical and economical concepts] merely adding to our confusion, I can see how so called conspiracy theorists are viewed with suspicion. But if you look at other fields of science, like the aforementioned sociology, they also comment and interpret our experienced history occasionally developing far fetched models for the future of humanity.
Imho, it all comes down to ones personal taste in weltanschauung.
Durf.

:confused:
Uh, I think I need a translator. That or about an hour to decipher it.

[sdavis117]

In my opinion, so called conspiracy theorists, try to put developing events into a historical perspective, right as they happen. I'm pretty sure that if one were to confront the people that actually experience the events we now view as historical [or at least as "happened in the past, not too unremarkable"]
with the textbook knowledge we have about said events, they would be quite startled maybe even offended by such an elevated and detachedd perspective that stems from an observer that is not directly involved in what he treats as "history".


tl:dr version:

Conspiracy theorists only see a partial and/or false peice of the picture, and make conclusions only from that peice of info.

[MetKiller Joe]

In my opinion, so called conspiracy theorists, try to put developing events into a historical perspective, right as they happen. I'm pretty sure that if one were to confront the people that actually experience the events we now view as historical [or at least as "happened in the past, not too unremarkable"]
with the textbook knowledge we have about said events, they would be quite startled maybe even offended by such an elevated and detachedd perspective that stems from an observer that is not directly involved in what he treats as "history".


I think you are grossly over analyzing conspiracy theories.

I think there's an internal (short-sighted, emotion-laden but inherently human) and an external (cold and empirical, theoretically depriving man of free will rendering him a mere lump of empirical equations) view to everything. As current events progress, our direct, emotional involvement in them [wich also implies a lack of a considerable amount of relevant information] clouds our judgement and with intricate conflicting interpretations of current events [and thus conflicing sociological, historical and economical concepts] merely adding to our confusion, I can see how so called conspiracy theorists are viewed with suspicion. But if you look at other fields of science, like the aforementioned sociology, they also comment and interpret our experienced history occasionally developing far fetched models for the future of humanity.

Physcology, economics, and sociology are far from perfected science.

Our brains are meant, from what I've read in a book called On Intelligence, to see patterns in most things. This is why experiences are so vital to our survival. If Y follows X, and one observes this behavior enough, the you memorize it as a pattern and use it too predict things. This would be a basic understanding of models of physcology, math, economics, or whatever science is your cup of tea.

We read about history in order to see patterns emerging. If Y happened before as result of X and we see Y or X happening now we can determine the cause/effect of the current situation.

Example, if you read Mein Kampf or any of Hitler's writings or for that matter study the man and what he went through/what he did up until WWII you can apply that progression of events to something similar today.

Models aren't great because there are hundreds of variables nobody can account for, but they are the best we have a predicting what will happen and we can prepare for it.

If you approach models as a way of people to objectivize human history, then yes, it does seem somewhat arrogant, but one must realize that this is what happened millions of years ago. If somebody came back from the hunt with one leg, they'd ask "what the hell happened?" he'd respond with "I poked the animal with a stick.". People will go, "Oh, I don't think it is a very good idea to do that," and they learn. You build off the mistakes or happenings of others.

Imho, it all comes down to ones personal taste in world view.


Durf.
.

[StankBacon]

Me, however, I have an eyesight problem that isn't cureable by LASIK, contacts, glasses, whatever. THAT makes me immune.


liar, what is it ?

[Boo Diddly]

Thx, from reading the bill to reading Booze's post, my mind got completely fried. Drool and utterings of "Brainssss" followed for a few minutes. Too many long words and not enough caffeine. >.>

[Warsaw]

liar, what is it ?

Ambliopia (I think that's how it's spelled). It's essentially a degenerate optic nerve that will eventually go kaput. You need both eyes to aim a rifle according to the military, and it is justified.

[Sel]

I theorize there is a conspiracy in these forums.

SHIT IM CRAZY

[Heathen]

pfft good job defending yourselves anyway, they're going to take away your guns, very soon. You watch.
Like I care :/

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

Im pretty sure that when aiming down the sight, most people use one eye, but, w/e

[SnaFuBAR]

they're trained not to shoot one eye closed. it's for situational awareness and target acquisition.

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

Oh, but what about in private ryan, the sniper had an eye closed....

[TVTyrant]

Because most people use scopes with one eye. If your using irons, your supposed to use two, although that is very difficult with blade sights. Learn to shoot and then come back.

[Pyong Kawaguchi]

I've never held a rifle before, so I am not of completely accurate knowledge, thanks for the info though :)

[Warsaw]

Not to mention when shooting from cover, you generally shoot using the eye on the same side of the cover you are on...using my left hand/eye on the right side of cover could be problematic.

[rossmum]

Not to mention when shooting from cover, you generally shoot using the eye on the same side of the cover you are on...using my left hand/eye on the right side of cover could be problematic.
Wouldn't eye dominance be an issue there?

[TVTyrant]

That's why soldiers (good ones anyways...) go through alot of firing range training. My buddy James whos in the US Marines said hes probably spen 100 hours on the range, working on both accurate shooting as well as overcoming eye dominance.

[Sel]

Oh, but what about in private ryan, the sniper had an eye closed....

That's because its a movie, if I made a movie where I aim a sniper with my dick would that mean that was how it was done?