Bubble shield? in halo ce? how original...

[Choking Victim]

So I was looking at CAD's old take on the bubble shield and felt that it's look was sub-par. I had this idea to simulate the halo 3 bubble shields light refraction for awhile now, since I was tired of seeing the same old glass shaders on all the bubbleshield's out there, I decided to try it.

The result:
http://www.halotrialmods.org/zteam/personal_files/cv/bubbleshield_new.jpg
http://www.halotrialmods.org/zteam/personal_files/cv/bubbleshield_new2.jpg

youtube video:
T1UmJr-qvA4

How it's done:
The distortion is a spawned actor_variant with active camo obviously. Due to the "passes through other bipeds" flag, the shield isn't collidable with bipeds, but it still collides with bullets. So using a biped tag I killed two birds with one stone pretty much.

The down sides:
The distortion is actually a high-poly sphere with each hexagon modeled in. Any hardware issues I can probably fix with lod's, but it runs fine (on my machine).

[paladin]

You sir deserve a B+

[teh lag]

Always great to see some new intuition come up like this :)

I'd say you could use some more "noise" in the shield - perhaps a shader_transparent unaffected by camo would do the trick.

[Choking Victim]

Always great to see some new intuition come up like this :)

I'd say you could use some more "noise" in the shield - perhaps a shader_transparent unaffected by camo would do the trick.
Ah, ill play around with it. I had one earlier but it kinda made it too cloudy. I've also been working with CAD to use the refraction effect in some of his explosions and whatnot, from what I've seen, it's looking awesome.

[itszutak]

I love it- but don't bipeds have a problem synching online?

[Joshflighter]

Uh, whats with the BR? :o

[Choking Victim]

I love it- but don't bipeds have a problem synching online?
I don't believe so, but I've never really used bipeds for anymore than player controlled characters/ai. I haven't tried it online yet, in this stage i'm just working on it's graphical representation. Once I get it as a deployable piece of equipment, we'll see.

Fear: If you're talking about the reflection of the br on the bubble shield, halo 1's light refraction has a tendency of reflecting anything in front of it onto itself, so your seeing the br's reflection. If your just talking in general about the br, idk, you tell me.

[Joshflighter]

I was talking about what you said. Ty. :)

[Inferno]

What is the yellow arc effect?

[Choking Victim]

What is the yellow arc effect?
A massive lens flare with a custom bitmap.

[sdavis117]

Crap, this reminds me, I need to download the camo fix.

Speaking of which, what would this look like on my PC without the Camo fix?

[Choking Victim]

Crap, this reminds me, I need to download the camo fix.

Speaking of which, what would this look like on my PC without the Camo fix?
Whatever your player looks like with active camo on without the active camo fix. ;)

[StankBacon]

looks very nice.

[Sel]

The arc of light seems a little odd, other than that though it looks great.

[Rook]

I remember the maps with the shield in them... didn't the shield not sync in certain ways? or something.

[ODX]

I remember the maps with the shield in them... didn't the shield not sync in certain ways? or something.It somehow spawned two shields in H3T-Coag and the latest H3MT maps (non-released, of course) if you were a client. No idea how they screwed it up, but it shouldn't normally do that.

[Choking Victim]

I remember the maps with the shield in them... didn't the shield not sync in certain ways? or something.
There's multiple ways to give an object bubble shield properties, so depending on how it's executed, some sync and some don't.

How's this Yuki:
http://www.halotrialmods.org/zteam/personal_files/cv/bubbleshield_new3.jpg
http://www.halotrialmods.org/zteam/personal_files/cv/bubbleshield_new4.jpg
Which looks better?

[AAA]

The top picture, considering the light does have random spots of light coming out from each direction of the shield. Anyway you can fix that up a little more? or would that be a no go? if so,

1. Stick with the top one (I suppose)
or
2. make a video showing both of these changes in a full 360 view in action to help determine our final thoughts.

Thanks.

Also,
It's nice to hear you guys are still working on things. Very awesome work. ^_^

[Joshflighter]

I kinda like the top one more.. but I'm not Selentic. D:

[Choking Victim]

The top picture, considering the light does have random spots of light coming out from each direction of the shield. Anyway you can fix that up a little more? or would that be a no go? if so,

1. Stick with the top one (I suppose)
or
2. make a video showing both of these changes in a full 360 view in action to help determine our final thoughts.

Thanks.

Also,
It's nice to hear you guys are still working on things. Very awesome work. ^_^
It'd be more of a hassle to gather all that, but i'm thinking about reworking the lens flare system to be constructed of more than just a single flare so it breaks apart dynamically and acts more like halo 3's.

[Sel]

Looks a lot better, though the difference may be that you're just a bit farther away. Not saying a big change is needed either, it looks very nice before, and looks great now too.

[Mythril]

Do the hexagons tile properly?

Still, very good.

[MissingSpartan7]

what are the powerups in the background going to be used for?

well done though
you could also use the h3mt one in narrows for reference

[itszutak]

It somehow spawned two shields in H3T-Coag and the latest H3MT maps (non-released, of course) if you were a client. No idea how they screwed it up, but it shouldn't normally do that.
THAT'S the problem with bipeds. Clients see two. If you're ever playing bacon's racetrack or that area 54 map as a client, you'll see the same thing with the bipeds, especially the ones that don't move.

[p0lar_bear]

My issue with it is graphics. It will look like craep on Nvidia cards without one of the various camo fixes, and older ATI cards (like my old 9200) won't be able to see what's in or behind the shield.

Of course, we aren't living on 2005 anymore, but still.

Griping aside, it looks pretty awesome.

[itszutak]

My issue with it is graphics. It will look like craep on Nvidia cards without one of the various camo fixes, and older ATI cards (like my old 9200) won't be able to see what's in or behind the shield.

Of course, we aren't living on 2005 anymore, but still.

Griping aside, it looks pretty awesome.
I thought it was only the 7 series that had the camo issue?

If a second sphere model is added with just a clear yellow texture (not cubemap), I think that would solve part of the old card issue.

[Boba]

This might seem nit-picky, but can we see a pic of it in a daylight map? :p
Also, is that a 3d sky?

[CtrlAltDestroy]

oh HO wellll isnt that sexy luv you cv

[Cortexian]

I thought it was only the 7 series that had the camo issue?
It's an issue with all nVIDIA cards after the 6 series. So the 7, 8, 9, etc series cards all suffer from it. Same with performance issues that make game play extremely laggy/choppy if decals are turned on.

[Hunter]

It is to transparent. give it a blue tint. Other than that looks awesome. I had this idea for ages but couldnt be arsed to try it. And everyone told me it wouldnt work.

[Gwunty]

Blue tint?
wat

[UnevenElefant5]

Uh, whats with the BR? :o
I wouldn't even have noticed that unless you pointed it out.
Anyways, good job, looks great so far. I think it needs more yellow, but it might just be the fact that it's night time.

[t3h m00kz]

Sexy fucking bubble shield.


make a video showing both of these changes in a full 360 view in action to help determine our final thoughts.

^ This

[Heathen]

ANy way of stoping that distortion like the first few pics?

[Choking Victim]

ANy way of stoping that distortion like the first few pics?
You mean how the br reflects itself onto the shield? Nah, that's an engine issue, it's hardly noticeable ingame though. Halo 3 does the same thing (as demonstrated in this picture (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=60601116)), but its not as hard core as it is here.

Sorry about not posting a vid, been trying to work out all the issues i've had with it. For one, the collision is all out of whack. It only deflects grenades sometimes. And there's holes in the collision around the top. I did a test with CAD earlier to see how it syncs, apparently it doesn't sync well atm, but I think it's just my deployment method. Whenever a client deploys a bubbleshield, it creates multiple ones. We'll see if I can work it all out.

[p0lar_bear]

Whenever a client deploys a bubbleshield, it creates multiple ones. We'll see if I can work it all out.Sounds like an issue where the the client sees the biped spawned by the server, yet goes and makes its own anyway. I'm not sure if there's a tag fix for that...

[Choking Victim]

Sounds like an issue where the the client sees the biped spawned by the server, yet goes and makes its own anyway. I'm not sure if there's a tag fix for that...
That's the thing, for this test I used vehicles not bipeds. I thought since vehicles already sync it'd work out.

[p0lar_bear]

But would players pass through the vehicle's collision?

[Choking Victim]

But would players pass through the vehicle's collision?
It was a dummy vehicle with an invisible actor varient loaded in one seat. The shields actual collision was done via a weapon tag referenced in the same vehicle tag. Since weapons can deflect bullets/grenades, but allow bipeds to pass through.

Edit: In my script I did use the "effect_new_on_object_marker" command in order to spawn the vehicle when a player hit the flashlight button, which I believe is the problem. I could probably do the biped crush sync method to spawn the effect that way, i'll see if that works in a bit.

[DarkHalo003]

Nice job Choking Victim. Now we all need better bullet deflection visuals to be on par.

[Choking Victim]

Nice job Choking Victim. Now we all need better bullet deflection visuals to be on par.
The community was getting boring, so I thought i'd set a new standard ;).

[DarkHalo003]

The community was getting boring, so I thought i'd set a new standard ;).
That's using the old noggin. :awesome: WHAT, NO AWESOME? WTF IS THIS COMING TOO?

[Hunter]

Blue tint?
wat

never mind, I was thinking of something else.

[Choking Victim]

Video real quick (might be processing still if its soon after this post):
T1UmJr-qvA4

Sorry if the quality is too shit to see much, but it seems alright, you can make out the gist of it. Ohh and there's no sound because fraps seems to exception if I record sound.

Tagwork is completed aside from effects (which CAD should be working on when he gets a chance). As for syncing deployment, I'll have to figure that out when the time comes.

[Heathen]

Looks great!
The orange lighting is pretty perfect.
It looks really genuine.

[UnevenElefant5]

No deploy animation? :sad:

[Joshflighter]

thats really awsome. GJ

[Choking Victim]

No deploy animation? :sad:
If someone is able to reenable the flashlight turn-off/on animations in fp, then it would definitely be do-able.

[UnevenElefant5]

I don't know how it's done though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRunaCu6hEM

[Choking Victim]

I don't know how it's done though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRunaCu6hEM
I do, it's a trick.

[Gwunty]

Will these be released to the public?

[Heathen]

That, and can you make it so the bubble is "created" from the thingy like halo 3's?

[Advancebo]

You mean like the shield expanding out of the generator?

[Joshflighter]

Will these be released to the public?

Thats all you seem to care about with everything now... :|


The grenades look funny when they reflect. :p

[Choking Victim]

Will these be released to the public?
I can't release these particular tags to the public, but that's why i've supplied everyone with enough information to do it themselves. If I was unclear on anything, just ask away. Also, Heathen, I did make an animation of the bubbleshield expanding when it's deployed. It's not as noticeable in first person, but it's great when you view it in third person.

[Gwunty]

I see, the second best thing to open sourcing is telling people how you did it :)

[UnevenElefant5]

I don't get exactly what the bubble shield is. I know it's a biped that does not collide with other bipeds, but, is it a grenade or what?

[Advancebo]

^this (to grunts post)
That is if your not lazy enough to do it yourself when you just read how to.

[DarkHalo003]

Tell me if I'm far fetched: It basically deploys a biped (I guess sort of like that Ghost Grenade deploys the ghost) that is the bubble shield you know (and maybe love).

[Advancebo]

It deploys an actor variant. That way it can still go away when getting hit in the generator and after a certain amount of time.

[UnevenElefant5]

But actor variants are AI and don't sync. Isn't it a biped?

[Advancebo]

Well, obviously a biped is needed to show the bubble shield model.

Actually, can you tell us more of why its an actor variant?

[Choking Victim]

Tell me if I'm far fetched: It basically deploys a biped (I guess sort of like that Ghost Grenade deploys the ghost) that is the bubble shield you know (and maybe love).
It deploys a biped consisting of only the emitter model. The biped contains a seat, with the active camoed actor variant tag loaded as the built in gunner. Now the tricky part is the shields collision. I had to load an effect on the biped that constantly spawned a weapon tag that detonated when dropped. The weapon tag contained the shields collision. The reason I had to do the shields collision this way is to maintain the ability to deflect grenades (a major gameplay element that made the shield useless if it was lost).

The reason it's an actor variant is because that's the only tag that you can give active camo to.

[Gwunty]

making this model isnt as easy as I thought.

[Heathen]

You know whats weird?
I had a dream about this last night.
I was on the testmap and I was like...man...this looks really good.
I got major dejavu wen I watched that video because thats the exact same motions I went through.

[FRain]

I'm guessing it can't block the grenade's explosion, though, rite?

[Heathen]

That's impossible for the engine if I remember right?

[ThePlague]

Just lower the damage radius.

[Masterz1337]

Damage effects would still go through it. The only thing they don't go through is BSPs.

[Heathen]

Damage effects would still go through it. The only thing they don't go through is BSPs.
I was just going to say that.

And their isn't a way to implement that I am sure.

[MissingSpartan7]

out of curiosity....what happens when you hit it with a vehicle?
it is a biped still....will it not move when hit?

[Advancebo]

Unless you were able to spawn a miniature BSP in the shape of the shield.... then no.

[Heathen]

out of curiosity....what happens when you hit it with a vehicle?
it is a biped still....will it not move when hit?
thats a good question...

[Advancebo]

It depends if there is a collision geometry in the shield.

[Choking Victim]

The actual collision of the shield is a weapon tag, so a vehicle will pass right through.

[FRain]

Collision of the shield is a weapon tag?


wat

[Limited]

You know the plasma shields and jackel shields. Do explosions penetrate them?

[Choking Victim]

Collision of the shield is a weapon tag?


wat

Read my description on the previous page, I refuse to repeat myself.

Limited: I believe grenades do penetrate them, but I never tested.

[Limited]

Well they do bounce off, but I dont know if the splash damage goes through them.

Probably easiest to check on the first level of Halo 1 :D

[AAA]

through this discussion so far, it sounds like the CE Bubble Shield created by ChokingVictim is the better than any of the so far existing ones for CE. But, there are still many glitches and (as far as we can discover at the moment) no ways to soliddify the stability of the original effects without tampering with other objects or effects.

So, I like it, but I don't like how you can't shoot through it when inside the bubble.
As for explosions, wouldn't making a full surface area of a sphere instead of half a sphere change the damage effects in any way? or since source is available, would it be theoretically possible to negate explosive damages?

[Advancebo]

Wont the reticle come up red since its a biped/actor?

[ShadowSpartan]

So, I like it, but I don't like how you can't shoot through it when inside the bubble.
I'm going to guess that you have never played a multiplayer game of Halo 3. Because if you had, you would know that when inside the bubble shield you cannot shoot through it.

[Choking Victim]

through this discussion so far, it sounds like the CE Bubble Shield created by ChokingVictim is the better than any of the so far existing ones for CE. But, there are still many glitches and (as far as we can discover at the moment) no ways to soliddify the stability of the original effects without tampering with other objects or effects.

So, I like it, but I don't like how you can't shoot through it when inside the bubble.
As for explosions, wouldn't making a full surface area of a sphere instead of half a sphere change the damage effects in any way? or since source is available, would it be theoretically possible to negate explosive damages?
Think about it, if you could shoot through it from the inside, you would be an unstoppable force. The point of the shield is to bring gameplay closer, so people have to be inside the shield with you for you to be able to interact with them. Go play halo 3, you can't shoot through the bubbleshield from the inside. If you could, it would be so imbalanced that no one would play the game.

Advancebo, in halo 3 your reticule turns red when aiming at the bubbleshield also. So rather than being an imperfection, it makes my recreation more accurate.

[Advancebo]

It turns green if its thrown by a teammate or yourself.

[Choking Victim]

It turns green if its thrown by a teammate or yourself.
So whats it matter? It'll always be red now. Let's not nitpick over something so insignificant.

[AAA]

I'm going to guess that you have never played a multiplayer game of Halo 3. Because if you had, you would know that when inside the bubble shield you cannot shoot through it.

Oh yeah, I don't play it often so you could probably guess I don't remember. Thanks for the correction. =)

EDIT: What about the explosions?... I don't think the damage ratio change would be very fun for balanced gameplay.

[Choking Victim]

Oh yeah, I don't play it often so you could probably guess I don't remember. Thanks for the correction. =)

EDIT: What about the explosions?... I don't think the damage ratio change would be very fun for balanced gameplay.
As of right now, CE's damage system is incapable of shielding a player from an explosion regardless of being obstructed by any object in its field of view.

[Inferno]

Would some sauce help?

[Advancebo]

Make the material for the shield "metal(thick)". It doesnt fully stop the explosion, but it lowers the damage through the shield.

[ShadowSpartan]

Would some sauce help?
I doubt it.

[FRain]

I'm sure he underlined OBJECT for a reason.

[Choking Victim]

Make the material for the shield "metal(thick)". It doesnt fully stop the explosion, but it lowers the damage through the shield.
Hey, you.

If I made the shield material metal, what would happen to its material effects? They would react like metal. Do I want them to react like metal? No. Do I want to change the metals material effects to act like a shields? No, because that would screw up everything else's material effects.

I don't even think your right about that material lowering the damage anyway, but i've never tried it.

[Pooky]

As of right now, CE's damage system is incapable of shielding a player from an explosion regardless of being obstructed by any object in its field of view.
Just throwing this idea out there with no real idea what I'm talking about...

What if you made grenades (or rockets), instead of plunking off the shield and falling down, bounce off with extreme force? Enough to send them far away, out of damage range?

[Mass]

Just throwing this idea out there with no real idea what I'm talking about...

What if you made grenades (or rockets), instead of plunking off the shield and falling down, bounce off with extreme force? Enough to send them far away, out of damage range?
Which would protect you from people throwing nades on the ground next to it?

[Hotrod]

Just throwing this idea out there with no real idea what I'm talking about...

What if you made grenades (or rockets), instead of plunking off the shield and falling down, bounce off with extreme force? Enough to send them far away, out of damage range?
But then, what happens if that rocket or grenades goes off to hit another player? I think he's aiming for accuracy here, not for creative, though interesting ideas.

[Pooky]

Which would protect you from people throwing nades on the ground next to it?

didn't say it was a perfect idea.

[ICEE]

This may be a stupid idea, but you could create an invisible second shield model slightly larger than the visible one, that would be large enough to stop any explosives at a greater distance, keeping the players inside the visible shield completely safe.

[ShadowSpartan]

This may be a stupid idea, but you could create an invisible second shield model slightly larger than the visible one, that would be large enough to stop any explosives at a greater distance, keeping the players inside the visible shield completely safe.
You people need to think before you post stupid ideas. If he was to do that, then the bullets would hit the outside collision, and thus look like shit. And I don't even think that would work because it does not matter how many objects are between the player and the splash damage. If the player is within the radius of the splash damage, he will take damage, no matter what.

[FRain]

Just deal with it. It's not going to be a huge deal. If you see a grenade, run in the opposite direction. It's not hard.

[sdavis117]

I don't know that much about Halo CE scripting, but could you not write a script that would make it so that when a grenade goes off close enough to the sheild, for that quick second or so that it is detonating, a material that reflects explosion damage (if there is any such material) would spawn around a certian part of the sheild, then it could dissapear right after the explosion.

[p0lar_bear]

I don't know that much about Halo CE scripting, but could you not write a script that would make it so that when a grenade goes off close enough to the sheild, for that quick second or so that it is detonating, a material that reflects explosion damage (if there is any such material) would spawn around a certian part of the sheild, then it could dissapear right after the explosion.

The only thing that stops Area of Effect damage is the level's collision BSP. Nothing else. This is why you can blow up things that hide behind the human barricades on various maps.

Besides, there's no visible way to script something like that.

[Choking Victim]

CAD and I were playing with an idea we had to replace the grenade explosion with a spawned effect on the point of impact, which spawned multiple projectiles firing in multiple directions. The spawned projectiles would attach to any nearby bipeds, but disappear in contact with other surfaces (ie the shield). The problem is, this discredits the kill system, meaning if you kill someone with an explosive using this effect, you wouldn't get the kill in a multiplayer game. Not to mention that this method is kind of unpredictable.

[ICEE]

You people need to think before you post stupid ideas. If he was to do that, then the bullets would hit the outside collision, and thus look like shit. And I don't even think that would work because it does not matter how many objects are between the player and the splash damage. If the player is within the radius of the splash damage, he will take damage, no matter what.

You need to think before you post unnessesarily rude responses. It was a suggestion with intent to help choking victim, or at the very least stimulate an idea. If you don't like it, don't take it. You are in no way required to read or respond to every post.

[Choking Victim]

Not in my thread, fred.

[Inferno]

You could have the spikes not able to kill you but leave you with 1 health somehow then after the spikes fire a second damage effect does 1 or 2 damage which can give the player the kill.

[ShadowSpartan]

You need to think before you post unnessesarily rude responses. It was a suggestion with intent to help choking victim, or at the very least stimulate an idea. If you don't like it, don't take it. You are in no way required to read or respond to every post.
I do not read and respond to every post, just the idiotic ones which need correcting or clarification. You even said yourself it was probably a stupid idea.

I may come across as rude, and quite frankly, I don't give a damn about what others think of me. It is extremely annoying when people like yourself can not read through a topic and see a post where a person clearly states that an idea will not work. (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=380321&postcount=87) Choking Victim had already stated that an idea like that would not work, yet you make a post anyway.

[CSFLOYD]

this is cool i hope its released to public

[Choking Victim]

this is cool i hope its released to public
Your lucky i'm even sharing how I did it. I don't normally do this.

[ShadowSpartan]

this is cool i hope its released to public
*cough* (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showpost.php?p=380094&postcount=55)

[Donut]

Do the hexagons tile properly?

i actually think that that is a geometric impossibility if you want to keep all of the faces congruent. im not sure it would be possible even if you did stretch a few faces. even halo 3's bubble shield has a couple of pentagons in it

have been meaning to ask my geometry teacher about this for a while now

[remedy]

older ATI cards (like my old 9200) won't be able to see what's in or behind the shield.

bahaha, this would be hilarious to see with a 9200/9250.
solid bubble of color.