Let's Play: IL-2 Sturmovik

[rossmum]

e/

Members with IL-2

Ross
Snaf
Goat
ExAm
Dr. Nick
Con
Amit
CN3089
Ace (Warsaw to you new scrubs)
flyinrooster
Jelly
Sel
Phob

Members interested

Rosco
Freelancer (I take it?)
Mass
Varmint
343guiltymc (possibly?)
Jean Luc
Omega
spartannumbers
huero

---OP FOLLOWS---

It's been a while since I last pointed you guys in the direction of an awesome game (which was RO, if I recall correctly); so here's another one you should get.

IL-2 is widely regarded as the definitive WWII flight sim. While the engine is dated (this game has been out for a very, very long time), it's by no means outdated; new content is constantly added, ranging from maps and aircraft paintschemes to whole new aircraft, airforces, and theatres of war. In its current state, the game covers the Eastern Front, the Pacific, and much of the fighting in Western Europe and the Italian peninsula. Modders are constantly adding whole new campaigns and missions, including the Battle of Britain, the Normandy landings, and the 8th AF's daylight bombing raids. The RAF will soon get its heavies, too. The modding community is incredibly active and of a very high standard. The game supports quick offline combat, single missions, or lengthy campaigns in numerous theatres with several airforces. Right now, I have an RAAF Beaufighter pilot in Papua New Guinea, a German Bf109 pilot on the Eastern Front near Vyazma, and a German jet bomber pilot in a 'what if' campaign. You see, the 1946 expansion added a whole load of new planes which were flying or planned to be flying by 1946, and a lot of hypothetical campaigns and missions - what if Operation Valkyrie had succeeded, what if the Cold War went hot in its first year... the variety is second-to-none.

"So," you ask, "it has a lot of shit in it. That doesn't make it good, does it?"

No, it doesn't. Not on its own. But when you combine this with the ability to choose either casual, arcade-style gameplay, absolute realism unmatched by other WWII sims (and many non-WWII ones), or something in between, you have something special. Furthermore, it has a strong online community populated not just by the kinds of idiots us Halo players are used to, but also by a rare and mysterious breed of gamer known only as "the devoted simmer". These strange creatures have somehow retained a strong sense of chivalry in this modern world, and can be witnessed protecting an aircraft they have severely damaged as it makes a crash landing, before giving a quick salute, a thanks for a good fight via chat, and returning homewards.

"You're taking the piss," you say. "Pull the other one. That would never happen in a multiplayer game."

Oh, but it does! Not once, but twice I have had my engine shot to pieces by a skilled enemy, only to see him draw level with my wing and see me down safely. After coming to a halt on the ground, he waggled his wings, complimented me over the text chat system, and then headed for home, content despite the fact that a crash-landed enemy will not count as a kill. I, too, was amazed to see such behaviour; rest assured, it is certainly no hoax.

To give you the vaguest idea of just how much is in this game, the unmodded pack on Steam (sold as '46 but including all previous packs I know of) contains at least 50-100 planes of various nationality and model. The Spitfires, Mustangs, 109s, 190s and other fighters which remained in service from their entry into the war through until its end are represented not by one famous version, but by most of the definitive stages in their development. The lack of the later, Griffon-powered Spitfires is being remedied right this very moment by the modding community, who have an XIV almost ready for release.

Nearly all aircraft in the game can be flown, and with the aid of mods, eventually all of them will be able to be flown by the player. Each of the several maps spans vast distances, with some focusing on a specific area (such as the Berlin map), and others whole sections of a country (Italy). Each aircraft can be marked out with the colours of any one of the several airforces in the game, or if you like, you can simply make your own skin entirely and implement it ingame with next to no effort.

"Enough of this useless talk, fool," say you, "show me this fucking game in action."

Alright.

Online league match, Stab/JG.52 vs. CH
ym6QwV7hy-4

Trailer
5Pk9QA7clU4

Some 109 flying online (note custom skin)
hDnzaTaNL6U

Failure of the Epic Variety pts. 1 & 2 (this is what you guys will probably fly like for the first few days, heh)
1Z1CRAHgGUs
MJ9jM7txEzw

Yours truly ending some sagas
0SBE1hRVdQY
xCGGyNfuzzY

Various movies made with the game, showing it's worth having if you're into machinima and warplanes, too
zF3Gc8UUo_o
3naO5Qk5Slc
jVqh9dSbBq0
nO86_eMaQL8
nypP182BUkI
ce-yjel7BQc
ThAO8axuhsA
MxQKuLKOcC0

"Fine, you've persuaded me. What are the minimum specs, where can I get it, and for how much?"

It'll run on pretty high settings smoothly for me, so it should run pretty well on any machine that was built this century. If you want to get the full WWII experience (oh, and the WWI and Korean ones, coming shortly courtesy of the community), leave yourself at least 5-10GB free space after installation; the one con for this game is the size of mods. You can buy it retail or from Steam, and it's not too expensive - Steam price is $20 or so, possibly less by now.

If you want to go online (highly recommended, but don't expect to own all and sundry on your first flight - these guys are largely hardcore fans who have been playing since release, as well as actual pilots), you'll need HyperLobby, found at http://hyperfighter.sk.

For all your modding needs, head to http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/index.php.

Enjoy, and I hope to see you in the skies soon.

[Rosco]

I'm down with this. Need to replace my laptop before I go into PC gaming again. I love WW2 Planes. :)

[Cortexian]

Oh... From the looks of it I thought it was going to be free, but it's not, so I can't rape Rossmum with my real piloting skills. How is it for realism? I'm used to Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3/Flight Simulator X, on par or better?

[InnerGoat]

The failure videos are hilarious :lol:

How does this game react to running on 3 monitors?

[mech]

Looks like a pretty fun game.

[Mass]

I hope you brought your life-raft Boyington! (In retrospect, Black Sheep Squadron is actually an awful show.)

This looks really cool, I think I might get this when I have zeh money.

[Varmint260]

I haven't played a flight sim since... must be three or four years! I got FlightSim 2004 (the edition with the metal case) back when it was brand new but I haven't played it lately 'cause my laptop couldn't handle it.

This looks quite interesting and fun so I just might reinstall FS9 until I can get a credit card together to buy this. Thanks for bringing to to my attention.

[NuggetWarmer]

Are the flight controls anything like the planes/helicopters in some of the battlefield games? (1942, Vietnam, etc.)

[Warsaw]

That probably depends on how you set it up...

I need a decent flight system before I decide to buy IL-2. Sidewinder 2 is nice, but for something like this I'd prefer a Saitek X58 Pro.

[343guiltymc]

Damn, I would buy this but I'm turned off by the fact that a lot of flight sims require to get some kind of peripheral to get the full experience.

[Cortexian]

Saitek X58 Pro.
I love mine, they're totally worth the price and completely awesome when coupled with rudder pedals.

[Varmint260]

*cries* I hate you guys. I just have an eight-button Sidewinder with no rudder control. And I reinstalled FS9 and realized I'm crap at flying. Well, I'm not that bad, but the landings are another story.

[rossmum]

Forgot to mention, you can use 360 controllers in lieu of a joystick. ExAm does.


Oh... From the looks of it I thought it was going to be free, but it's not, so I can't rape Rossmum with my real piloting skills. How is it for realism? I'm used to Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3/Flight Simulator X, on par or better?
Utterly superior to CFS3 in every respect. In CFS3, I remember running my engine at max revs and max boost for hours with no repercussions. Try that in IL-2 and you'll soon have a very hot engine, which will simply seize up if you allow it to get too hot. I haven't played FSX but from what I've seen it goes in for the "everything works, you can click switches to throw them, etc." approach, which obviously isn't going to work so well in air combat. Suffice to say that IL-2 is the most realistic combat sim I've played to date, and also the best-looking.


The failure videos are hilarious :lol:

How does this game react to running on 3 monitors?
I wouldn't know, would I?

snob


Are the flight controls anything like the planes/helicopters in some of the battlefield games? (1942, Vietnam, etc.)
No.

This is a flight sim, not an arcadey shooter/flier/[aim]boater game.


I love mine, they're totally worth the price and completely awesome when coupled with rudder pedals.
That's why I intend to buy one to replace my old Wingman Force 3D, whose motors are burning out after many years of abuse :(

[Cortexian]

When it comes to looks, Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. rapes the shit out of IL-2's ear. But it's realism is super gay.

[InnerGoat]

I wouldn't know, would I?

snob




Just asking sir don't get mad!

Flying around with a much wider FOV and a head tracking unit would be awesome :worship:

[Warsaw]

When it comes to looks, Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. rapes the shit out of IL-2's ear. But it's realism is super gay.

Enough said?

[rossmum]

Just asking sir don't get mad!

Flying around with a much wider FOV and a head tracking unit would be awesome :worship:
yes indeed goon sire

once i am rich (but still not rich enough for the real thing) i shall endeavour to build a life-size spitfire cockpit from scratch and then surround it with screens!

[PenGuin1362]

I'm content with tom clancy's HAWX

[rossmum]

so is there any interest in our own online squadron

e/ first let's get a list together of who has it, and who's interested. tell me and i'll add you to the list on the op

[Varmint260]

You can count me in as interested, but don't expect any talent from me for awhile after I get the game (which may not be for awhile). I reinstalled FS9 the other day... *shudders*. Usually any jerk can get the takeoff right but somehow I managed to veer off the runway and flip over. I had better start practising ;)

EDIT: While doing the introductory pilot training (I've never done it in FS9) the instructor barked at me for doing tight, jerky motions with the plane and then calmly suggested I go play a WWII-esque flight sim instead... lol.

[OmegaDragon]

Those failure videos have inspired me. If I ever get this game, I will crash all the time and lol every time.
Seriously though, this game looks epic/
A few questions though:
Does it work on Vista/Windows 7?
Can I use a mouse/keyboard?

[Dr Nick]

I have it, just bought '46 off Steam this morning.

[Con]

this is hell with the arrow keys. I can use my mouse as a virtual joystick, but the program to enable and disable mouselook in IL2 was made for XP and the keyhook doesn't work on vista. FUUUU. Other options: buy a game port and use old joystick, or buy a wireless reciever for my 360 controller.

[SnaFuBAR]

ross is the best. will be playing soon as my pc decides to recognize my very seldomly used joystick :smith:

[Jean-Luc]

Do want this game :D

[rossmum]

Does it work on Vista/Windows 7?
Yes.


Can I use a mouse/keyboard?
I wouldn't recommend it. Even if you just buy a mega-cheapo joystick or use a 360 controller, that would be a lot better.

[sdavis117]

Once I get an Adapter for my Wireless 360 controller, I will look onto getting this game.

Any demos though? I'd rather not just drop $20 for a game I won't like.

[rossmum]

I think there might be one, I don't know where you'd find it though

[Huero]

Interested.
Not sure, though; not really into the realism part of flight sims, more just the overall badass-ness of flight.

[Cortexian]

Yes I'm interested, someone buy it for me cause I spent all my money on Airsoft shit.

[rossmum]

I've already bought it for three e/ four people, you'll have to beg someone else. :F

[Jean-Luc]

Here be a demo on Fileplanet (http://www.fileplanet.com/63881/download/IL-2-Sturmovik-Demo-v2.0)

And on Fileshack (http://www.fileshack.com/file.x/40/IL-2+Sturmovik+Demo)

Looking for other mirrors


E: FUCK there are a lot of controls

[Cortexian]

FUCK there are a lot of controls


Welcome to Flight Sims.

:/

[rossmum]

ladies,

SPITFIRE XIV OUT, RESTART STEAM

All Aircraft Arcade :: View topic - [MOD] Spitfire XIVc & XIVe Ver1.0 *NEW* (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14360)

beauty shots:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/Pic_XIV_1.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/Pic_XIV_2.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/Pic_XIV_3.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/Pic_XIV_4.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/Pic_XIV_5.jpg

[InnerGoat]

fukken nice

[rossmum]

spit xiv update:

THIS SHIT IS FUKKEN AMAZING TO FLY

video up as soon as i can pull myself together enough to make one

[CN3089]

P-51s are better http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/CN3089/Emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

[rossmum]

someone is working on some more mustang variants last i checked

anyway here's a movie, currently processing so try again later if it fucks you off

0kAlAZfhzrA

[sdavis117]

I'm getting myself a wired 360 controller tomorrow, so I'll play the demo then, and if I like it I will buy it.

[Amit]

Is it possible for me to play Pacific Maps with you guys since I have Pacific Fighters?

[rossmum]

Should be.

You may as well just get the whole lot, though. vOv

[Amit]

I would since this series appeals to me very much and it's a noggin scratcher as to why I don't already have it. However, I am not prepared to pay more than $10 for IL-2: Sturmovik.

[rossmum]

That's how much it costs over Steam http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-psyduck.gif

[Huero]

What are the main modding communities for this game?

[rossmum]

http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/

There are a few others but that's the main one

[Amit]

Does Sturmovik:1946 include Pacific Fighters as well?

[rossmum]

The Steam version includes everything.

[sdavis117]

Is there an offline tutorial for a Keyboard and Mouse setup (and a 360 controller tutorial would be nice too, since I am going to get one soon, even though it has been delayed till tomorrow). The demo doesn't come with a flying tutorial, and I can't get off the ground for two seconds without crashing.

[rossmum]

There might be, I haven't seen one. Ask ExAm about 360 controllers, he uses one.

[Amit]

The Steam version includes everything.

Aight. Well, cool I guess. I got Pacific Fighters bundled with my current video card exactly 3 years ago today lol. I know that because I still have the invoice/receipt.

I think I might buy Sturmovik:1946 on Steam at the end of this month. I never really got multiplayer for Pacific Fighters working anyways.

[Cortexian]

Your video is to loud Ross.

[rossmum]

Your posts are too loud, you should stop making them. :snafubar:

I don't bother adjusting volume on my end. I like things loud. If you don't, you have a volume control for that very reason.

[Huero]

Downloading it right now B)

[rossmum]

To further illustrate just what happens online, here are some screens from a game I literally just finished I scored two Bf109s destroyed and a further shared (I did all the legwork but someone else finished him as I was weaving in for another pass)... unfortunately I was a little too close to both kills so the explosion from the first hitting the ground blew my wing off and the second misjudged his altitude and slammed into the water (I think I may have hosed his controls a little). Being less than fifty yards in trail, I went in right after him because I have to have water on low while online or I get a terrible framerate. I couldn't see the waves properly thanks to a mixture of this and the lighting.

The third 109 was incredibly hard to keep up with. I spotted him heading for our base several thousand feet above, so I had to claw for altitude the whole time; when I finally caught him, he started throwing his plane around like a madman. It was bloody hard to land any hits, but I definitely damaged him fairly decently.

Taking a look at these should show you just how in-tune the average player is. None of these screens were set up and none involved any communication between the players, they just happened.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/il-2%2024%20apr%20lp/grab0006.jpg
Escort forms up on Beaufighter without even having to be asked

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/il-2%2024%20apr%20lp/grab0009.jpg
My first kill of the day, shortly before he ploughed up the runway and took my wing with him. He must've been asleep, because he led me right back to his own airfield and tried to land with me on his tail...

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/il-2%2024%20apr%20lp/grab0033.jpg
The third 109, the one I damaged. This guy was insanely good, it took no less than four Spitfires several minutes to finally kill him. Most of the damage was done by me but I had to constantly pull blackout-inducing turns just to keep sight of him.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/il-2%2024%20apr%20lp/grab0042.jpg
One second the sky's clear, and the next...

Also, an update on the modding front:

The Mk.XIV now has an opening cockpit door, independent of the canopy open/close key; the Mk.XII has been released and shares this feature. The Fairey Battle frankenplane now has its own slot and works with the other new aircraft. The Swordfish will shortly be ready for skinning, and the F9F is nearly done bar the flight model; the Skyraider model is coming along well and there's a De Havilland Hornet in the works. Both the B-26 and the A-26 (don't confuse them, very different planes) are well into the modelling process.

Most importantly of all, Hawkman's working on the Dornier Do-17Z (really major LW plane early in the war, no idea why it was missing from the game to begin with), and it's shaping up pretty nicely...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/ivanphawksley/Do17z%20IL2/Do17z_WIP_36a.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/ivanphawksley/Do17z%20IL2/Do17z_WIP_36c.jpg

[Warsaw]

So I just bought IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 via Steam...:v:

Am downloading now, then it's off to get my pilot's wings...time to dust off the Sidewinder 2.

[Roostervier]

I think I'll buy this

e: bought this

[Amit]

Sorry Ross, ended up buying Unreal Tournament 3 Black: Titan Pack instead and it's fucking awesome. Might buy IL-2 when I get my shit together though. I owe a shitload of money to my dad and sisters from prom shit, and eventually my mom for my prom tux.

[MetKiller Joe]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/ivanphawksley/Do17z%20IL2/Do17z_WIP_36a.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/ivanphawksley/Do17z%20IL2/Do17z_WIP_36c.jpg

Is it just me or there a lot of wasted polies on the back of that airplane (where the wings and tail join to the body)?

[rossmum]

It could probably be done with less, but given that the engine is old and doesn't support normals or fancy shading, the smoother the silhouette is, the better. If you've got even a slightly polygonal (rather than near-round) curve, the spec will really make it look terrible.

The way Il-2's models work kind of necessitates otherwise wasteful behaviour, too... even if you don't want a plane where parts can break off, you still have to cap sections and keep the pieces separate mesh-wise, or the game will shit itself.

[Warsaw]

It made my computer overheat...97 degrees here. =þ

I can fly pretty decently for a beginner. I've never played a realistic flight sim ever...I'm used to the X- and Y-axes being used for pitch and yaw while the Z-axis is used for roll...space sims =/= flight sims even remotely. What I am barely mediocre at is actual combat...I suspect any n00b would be.


Also, I still can't land for shit. =|

[Varmint260]

Also, I still can't land for shit. =|

Agreed, I still haven't gotten a good knack of landing... though I'm still using FS9 for now.

Anyhow... I had planned to get this game but looking at my bank account today made me nearly shit myself. Good news is that I'll hopefully have a job again soon, and with it I hope to get this off Steam and maybe spoil myself with some new computer parts, too.

[rossmum]

It made my computer overheat...97 degrees here. =þ

I can fly pretty decently for a beginner. I've never played a realistic flight sim ever...I'm used to the X- and Y-axes being used for pitch and yaw while the Z-axis is used for roll...space sims =/= flight sims even remotely. What I am barely mediocre at is actual combat...I suspect any n00b would be.


Also, I still can't land for shit. =|
Yeah, landing in IL-2 is hard. Especially on short and narrow grass strips with rough ground either side of the runway, ugh :(

[Warsaw]

I can make crash landings without dying pretty well now...before it was just a straight up crash...:haw:.

[Amit]

Whoa, this game is hella hard, just like Pacific Fighters. Hell I try to take off and I crash.

[Warsaw]

=O Taking off is actually the easiest part of the game...did you watch the tutorials before trying to play? I watched all of the Bf109 ones, and it helped immensely.

[rossmum]

I can make crash landings without dying pretty well now...before it was just a straight up crash...:haw:.
I'm better at belly-landing a barely-airworthy plane than landing an intact one properly, go figure http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-psyduck.gif


Whoa, this game is hella hard, just like Pacific Fighters. Hell I try to take off and I crash.
Due to torque or what?

[Amit]

=O Taking off is actually the easiest part of the game...did you watch the tutorials before trying to play? I watched all of the Bf109 ones, and it helped immensely.

Well the demo doesn't allow you to watch Tutorial videos.


Due to torque or what?

I'm not sure exactly. I try to do what I remember from my Pacific Fighters tutorials, although, those were for taking off from an aircraft carrier.

Well it's no problem for me to take off with any plane really, it's just when I jump into a German fighter plane in the demo that I stall as soon as I leave the ground while pulling up on my joystick. And yes, I have my joystick calibrated properly.

Here's what I do when taking off with any plane:

1. Turn the engine on with the throttle set to 0%.
2. Move my throttle slider up to 30%.
3. Disengage brakes if they are engaged.
4. Move the slider up to 60% power while moving down the runway.
5. Finally I move the throttle to 85% and slowly pull back on the stick to move the elevators into the up position. Then, I push the throttle to 100% power and continue to pull up to a good altitude.
6. I raise the flaps and landing gear and carrying on with the mission.

This usually works for any plane I use but those goddamn German fighters just refuse to not stall and fall down towards the left.

[rossmum]

Some of the German planes are pretty heavy, the Ta152 being a prime example.

I just ram the throttle forwards as soon as I start rolling and let the plane get off the ground by itself, try using the flaps to assist too.

[Huero]

yeah you have to put the flaps in takeoff mode
or something

[rossmum]

Well you don't have to, but it usually helps.

[Amit]

God lol, I just remembered how hard it was to take off and land on a carrier. Well taking is not so bad. I do what you do Ross, slam the throttle to 100%, but with the short deck of a carrier I have to pull up or the plane will run off the deck and fall into the water. Landing is hell. It's practically impossible to land in a carrier while in cockpit view but one of the external views has an indicator line that you can use to line up the plane with the tailhook on the carrier so it makes the landing easier to make. Using the flaps to keep a steep angle of decent definitely helps too. You still have to watch the speed and angle at which you're coming in or the plane will bounce when it hits the deck.

[rossmum]

What do you mean, 'practically impossible'? I landed a shot-up SBD without ailerons, using my rudder instead, without causing further damage to either it or the carrier. :snafubar:

Kids these days, I swear...

ps anything other than full realism is scrubby~

[rossmum]

This is worth the double post:

GUHNa2aFHOk
From 2:06 on is fucking incredible...

e/

-G2o5tsjcC8

[Warsaw]

I'm trying to figure out what the "Combat" setting for the flaps is for...all it does is sound alarms in my plane when I have it set to anything other than Raised when in-flight.

[rossmum]

Gives you a little more lift and slows you down a bit for turns. I'm a Spit pilot so I'm used to flaps only being all the way up or all the way down and the plane pulling ridiculous turns unaided, but it seems most others need to use combat flaps to pull around as hard as the Spit can.

[Warsaw]

Ah, I've been flying the 109, that might be why I can't pull a hard turn without stalling; I use them completely raised.

Also, I didn't like the Spit handled...too rolly for my tastes, though I guess I'm just not comfortable enough with the game to appreciate it yet. Same goes for the P-51.

Ross, what's the trick to climbing rapidly? All the AI pilots can do it almost on a whim, but it takes me five minutes to climb to their level.

[rossmum]

The AI pilots are unaffected by engine overheats and therefore can spiral climb to infinity while you run your engine to within a degree of its life just to keep up with them. Certificate's AI mod (check the AAA forums) fixes it to a degree, it's still a problem though. I don't think much can be done about it to be honest.

[Warsaw]

Well, my skill is to the point where I can take on two Spits on Rookie and splash both. Alternatively, I can take on two Bf-109s as well.

I still can't land...I don't know what's up. I'm below the speed limit like I should be, flaps are down, nose is up, gear is down...still can't land.

P.S. I think the P-40 and P-51A/B/C/D/Mk.II use the same flight model, because neither of them can climb and both have pretty much the exact same handling.

[rossmum]

I doubt it very much. The P-40 is as slow as shit compared to the Mustangs, and I think the C is a V-1 chaser on 150-octane fuel so it's hotrod as fuck

[Warsaw]

Then why the is the P-51 just as bad at climbing (and it doesn't like going faster than 250mph)? Hell, the Bf 109 climbs better than it.

[rossmum]

The centre of gravity is pretty far off. The P-51's CoG depended very heavily on which fuel tanks were drained first. It's a known issue, has been for a long time.

[Warsaw]

Yeah, wings first, then centre tank gets drained, I know that bit. It just seems underpowered in IL-2 (except when the AI flies it, but we both know the reasons for that).

I flew the P-38 the other day, and managed to force a Bf-109 to stall out and crash...it was pretty lulzy. Should've saved that track, because it was a pretty good run.

[Inferno]

The only flight game I've played is Ace Combat: 4. I beat it all the way through on ace mode.
Ace combat is more of a arcade flight game though. This looks cool none the less might look into it.

[Warsaw]

Ace Combat 4 =/= IL-2 in the slightest. You will have to re-learn how to fly.

[Cortexian]

I like how no flight sims have gotten landing very realistic ever... It's really not that hard... During my Cadet flight school we had to make "emergency" landings in the field beside the runway, and it was basically a farmers field with bumps/holes/bushes everywhere.

And we were using Cessna 172's...

[Warsaw]

I swear I should've been able to land by now in IL-2...there's no reason for it not to have worked in some instances, everything was perfect, but it still skidded out and broke my plane...and I was not over-applying brakes...

[Inferno]

Ace Combat 4 =/= IL-2 in the slightest. You will have to re-learn how to fly.
Yeah I know.

Ace combat is more of a arcade flight game though.

[343guiltymc]

Is a joystick or some kind of controller needed to play this game? A lot of flight games don't play well with just mouse and keyboard.

[rossmum]

I like how no flight sims have gotten landing very realistic ever... It's really not that hard... During my Cadet flight school we had to make "emergency" landings in the field beside the runway, and it was basically a farmers field with bumps/holes/bushes everywhere.

And we were using Cessna 172's...
Uh, yeah, therein lies your problem. There is a lot of difference between cheap little civvy runabouts and high-performance warbirds; for starters, the latter is designed for performance over ground stability and in some cases (Bf109, looking at you), they were quite dangerous to land. Then there's the fact they're much faster, much more responsive to the controls, and they're almost always low-wing with radiators and shit hanging off the underside which can be a problem if there are bushes all over. And all that's not even taking their weight, raw power, and typically horrible landing visibility into account (in most cases you can't see over the nose as you come in to land)...


Is a joystick or some kind of controller needed to play this game? A lot of flight games don't play well with just mouse and keyboard.
You can sub in a 360 controller if you really want to, but it's easier just to get a stick

[343guiltymc]

Don't got a 360 controller, or a joystick for that matter....Ah well, going to have to look for something else then.

[Jean-Luc]

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sim/il2birdsofprey/index.html?tag=result;title;2

Hope this hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Console version of IL-2.


Bitchin graphics :cool:

[Amit]

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sim/il2birdsofprey/index.html?tag=result;title;2

Hope this hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Console version of IL-2.


Bitchin graphics :cool:

Bitchin' grafx, but donkey gameplay.

[Warsaw]

Not true, looks like it plays rather well, and keeps to the roots of the original IL-2. You can a;so get a Joystick for the 360 to make it better. It's just physically impossible to have as many controls on the console version as the PC one has...this one is on PC as well.

[rossmum]

It's been dumbed down for the console kids, there's no way they could keep it as true to real life as the PC version. Never fear though, Storm of War will steamroll it. I'll try find a good video to post later, but look for Storm of War: Battle of Britain on YT.

[Warsaw]

The console version will be dumbed down, but will the PC version be dumbed as well? As far as I know, IL-2 has always had the option to be realistic or dumbed down on PC.

[rossmum]

There won't be a PC version of Birds of Prey, unless I'm very much mistaken...

[Warsaw]

The article said it would be released on PC.

Quote the Gamespot article above:

The German Luftwaffe is again in trouble as new developer Gaijin Entertainment plans to release IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey on the PC, PlayStation 3, and Xbox 360, with handheld versions on the PSP and Nintendo DS. At publisher 1C's annual press event, we got our hands on the 360 version of IL-2 and are pleased to report that Gaijin is holding true to the game's roots.

[rossmum]

That's news to me.

SoW: BoB will still trash it though, the amount of love going into it is amazing. The Spitfire cockpit is identical to the real thing, down to every last screw.

[Warsaw]

Not that my computer can handle the level of detail at all...IL-2 Sturmovik is already pretty much the limit.

[rossmum]

It's confirmed, BoP will pale in the face of the old Il-2, let alone SoW. Looking at one of the trailers, their Spitfire IX (?) is so off that it took me a good ten minutes to work out exactly which variant it was supposed to be, because it looked like some kind of V/IX frankenplane. I know Il-2 had its inaccuracies - 3.5 degrees too much dihedral, too big a nose, and too short a tail all on the P-40, the Spit VIII/IX's pointed tail was slightly off, stuff like that... but this is just incredible.

From my comments on the video -


Does anyone know what mark of Spitfire that is? I get the impression it's meant to be a IX, but if it is, the proportions are off around the nose... it's definitely later than a V, but the nose itself looks too short and the carby scoop is too small to be a IX. It can't be a VI or VII either, they had pointed wings, and the VIII had the retracting tailwheel...

its mk1

It can't be. The Mk.I only had one radiator, three long exhaust stubs, the carb scoop was basically a bent pipe in terms of shape, the tail wasn't pointed, and with the exception of the comparatively rare Ib it carried eight Brownings. Whatever this is, it has a c-wing.

The fact this has two radiators alone means it can't possibly be anything prior to V.

Once again I'm left wondering why I bother with the idiots on Youtube...

[343guiltymc]

Because it's a "concept"? :(

[rossmum]

If you were a CDG member and therefore in on the 'concept' joke, I'd excuse that. I really hope you weren't being serious, because in a game that's meant to be historically accurate, there's no such thing as a concept. You base it off the real thing, nothing else.

[343guiltymc]

If you were a CDG member and therefore in on the 'concept' joke, I'd excuse that. I really hope you weren't being serious, because in a game that's meant to be historically accurate, there's no such thing as a concept. You base it off the real thing, nothing else.

I wasn't being serious. It's being ported to the consoles, so this is kind of expected to happen.

[Jelly]

+1 member with IL-2

But the menu is so ugly

[rossmum]

You can change it pretty easily, to an extent

[Warsaw]

The menu on the Steam version is not the original menu...

[rossmum]

Goat and I have been discussing the possibility of a Modacity squadron for co-op and/or online dogfighting; so far nothing's set in stone, I'd like to hear what you guys think about it first. If we do form one we'll need to make some pretty big decisions, like whether we'll enforce any degree of uniformity (either aircraft type or markings), command structure, etc., as these are pretty important points in a game like Il-2. I was thinking we should go RAF (because I love the RAF) and use letter codes of our own (MD-, MC- perhaps for Modacity; maybe even H2- or 2V- if we want to be all nostalgic about the site's origins). However I'm definitely open to discussion on the issue and if you guys want to use historical codes then that'd work too. I can whip up the lettercodes and squadron insigne which you can then just paste into the appropriate folder and select when flying online, as well as personal skins when time allows. There's also the issue of rank - it'll be mighty hard to play well as a unit if there are too many Chiefs and no Indians - including who gets it, who doesn't, and what it entitles the holder to (historically, RAF squadron leaders would often bear the squadron code only on their aircraft and the real important guys like wing commanders could have whatever they bloody well liked, usually initials like AL- for Al Deere and D-B for Douglas Bader).

I'd also like to recommend we start on the Spitfire as it's probably the most pilot-friendly plane going (and it owns); maybe as we pick up more members we could have a Modacity wing rather than squadron, encompassing more aircraft types. I dunno, let's get talking.

[thehoodedsmack]

The Modacity Screamin' Eagles.

I'm starting to think this game might be a solid investment...

[Warsaw]

Well, some of us have massive time zone discrepancies...

Also, noes to the Spit...I don't like flying it, to be honest, the cockpit is too crowded, engine overheats hella fast, and it just feels unstable to me. You want a pilot-friendly plane? Try the P-40 or P-39. Plus, I fly German usually, and if not, then I fly the P-38 or P-51...so if we're gonna all be Brits, I'm taking the P-38.

[rossmum]

The cockpit is fine, it probably has the best layout of all the planes to be honest... the blind flying instruments are arranged neatly in front of you, engine stuff to the right, rest to the left. The engine overheating can easily be countered by flying it properly (cruise at +8lbs boost, 2,650RPM - you won't get any trouble from the engine). You must be the only person on the planet who finds it unpleasant to fly, you know :p

The other benefit of the Spit is that I'm more or less a walking encyclopaedia on it, so any problems can quickly be worked around. I don't know shit about the P-40 or the P-39 (which, by the way, is so stall-happy it's not funny - not to say it's a bad plane, just bloody awful for beginners). As far as I know, the RAF only used the non-supercharged P-38s, which gave them a bad reputation with British pilots. Il-2 doesn't model this version and in any case they were a world apart from the American P-38s.

[Warsaw]

It's not the layout of the cockpit that bothers me, it's the excessively large metal struts that brace the bubble. I mean, gott damn, is that really necessary?

I rarely ever stall in the P-40...you have to fly it with flaps down when turning and angle the nose downward on any said turn...basically, you have to fly it like a Bf-109; it won't go head to head with a [early] Spit in a turning fight (and not at all against later models).

P-38: Pretty much all of them had turbochargers. The problem that many had issue with was the tail on early models, which would cause the plane to enter a high-compressibility stall, thus freezing controls in a dive. That was the big issue, not the superturbochargers (though the early ones easily caught fire if damaged). It just wasn't as maneuverable as the Spit, but it could certainly outclimb and outrun it.

[rossmum]

No, trust me, there was a P-38 variant without the chargers and the Brits flew those. I can't remember the name but I think it was something highly original like P-388.

As for the canopy braces? They're something you learn to live with. Honestly out of every plane in the game, I'd consider it a toss-up between the Spit, the Mustang and the Tempest for best visibility.

[Warsaw]

Well, the Mustang pretty much has no struts to speak of...the only advantage the Spit has is that rear view mirror, but that's not on every model.

You are thinking of the Model 322 P-38, and they only removed the turbochargers because the Brits and the French were 'tards and told them to due to the large number of P-40s on hand. It wasn't designed to be used without them. The 322 is not present in IL-2, since they were all used as advanced trainers after Britain basically cancelled the order.

[rossmum]

I knew it was something with a 3 and a double number.

The Spit actually has quite good visibility to be honest. Between the mirror and the bulged canopy, you can see more or less everything. And which models aren't the mirrors on? I see them on every Spit, and not through modding...

[Warsaw]

Mirror is there in the third-person moddel without modding, but I never see it from the cockpit. =|

Meh, I just don't wanna do a team of purely Spitfires...

[rossmum]

Go into controls, assign Shift M or something to toggle mirrors. That's why you're not seeing anything.

At the moment it looks like we'll have to have different sections if people all want to be flying their own favourites, because mixed-type squadrons are never a good idea...

[InnerGoat]

lets all fly the me-262

[rossmum]

Ahahah, that'll be fun with the learners.

Our signature airshow stunt could be synchronised formation flameouts...

[Warsaw]

You and I are almost opposite time zones, so that kind of works, having different sections.

[TeeKup]

I could really get into this game. All I need are the requirements, and a decent computer...

[InnerGoat]

If ross can run it you can run it...

[TeeKup]

By decent computer I mean my very own computer. I currently share one.

[Warsaw]

The game is not very demanding on hardware unless you for some reason think you can crank it all the way up on computer that barely meets it...my PC can run it on maximum settings at 1280x1024 (my maximum resolution), and I suspect it's right on the threshold of running it maxed out smoothly, so there's your goal.

[rossmum]

Ace, having just flown a whole mission in the P51D-5NT, I'm going to have to put your suspicions as to the flight model's fidelity down to your piloting... she doesn't accelerate all that great for starters but once you've got some energy behind you, you're laughing. I climbed to what must've been about 10,000ft within less than two minutes of leaving the ground, and after entering a prolonged chase with a 109G-6/AS I picked up my IAS from 250mph to over 400mph on the level. I knocked out his oil cooler with my second or third burst from about 200yd, then the idiot dived and within seconds my airspeed had rocketed to nearly 500mph... I ran out of ammo and was forced to break off my attack and head for home, but one of my wingmen confirmed the kill over the radio as I was on finals and watching the track showed that as soon as I'd buggered off, he'd bellied (for some stupid reason bellied planes vanish after a few minutes, and then are counted as an outright kill). I also made probably my first perfect, three-point, no-bounce landing to date, which was pretty cool.

The Mustang was primarily used with B&Z tactics, which plays to its amazing acceleration in the dive and its retention of energy if it's handled gently... while they often got into turning fights with the 109s and won, this was considerably more risky. If you're going to fly the P-51, claw for altitude, dive, make a pass, and them zoom back up to altitude. If you want to play the turning game, take a P-40 or Spit up.

[Warsaw]

I don't do turning. I'm terrible at it. Hell, even flying a Spit I end up doing B&Z.

Also, I don't know the trick to rapid climbing nor keeping my speed up yet. I almost always fall below 250mph/300kph, though I'm getting better about that with the Bf 109. Remember, this is my first flight sim ever...

[Sel]

whoa

I just found out I had this game

anyone still wanna play it

E: won't install on w7 64, halp

EE: copied the program files from my laptop to here and it works fine now

[rossmum]

We're going to have to work out weekly Modacity Il-2 nights or something

[rossmum]

FUCKING HUGE WHIRLWIND UPDATE

http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=194260#194260

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

[Warsaw]

Awesome, but you forget that not all of us are as into the RAF as you are...some of us fly Axis and like to dabble in USAAF...

[Phobias]

Buying this game.
Any suggestions on joysticks? I don't have one but I'm in the market.

[Warsaw]

Saitek X52 Pro.

There are two versions, the X52, and the X52 Pro. The X52 uses mechanical sensors and is a little mushier, where as the Pro uses digital pots and is stiffer. Also, former is black/silver with blue lights, where as the latter is black/grey with no lights and orange accents.

If you like Force Feedback, get the Saitek ForceFeedback stick, but you'll need to get a separate throttle.

[Needles]

I might get it. I was amazing at flight sims when I was little, but I haven't played any since I was 6.

[rossmum]

Force feedback is nice to have at times - gives you a good indicator of when you're approaching the stall, and you have to struggle against the controls at high speed - but the problem is that eventually the motors will burn out and the joystick goes to mush, like mine has. No amount of trimming can keep my plane straight and level hands-off if my stick's flopping willy-nilly from one side to the other. It's a constant struggle for me to keep the same heading, so until I get a new stick, formation flying is not a good idea.

[Warsaw]

Yes, well, at least a Spit can fly level hands-off at all, it's impossible in a 109...apparently the ailerons don't trim, and rudder trimming is unresponsive...elevators work. =|

[rossmum]

Not many fighters have aileron trim. The Spit doesn't, and since my stick never sits centred, it means I can't fly hands-off except on those rare occasions it decides to balance upright.

Then, of course, the first bit of turbulence or whatever knocks it off-balance and sends it hard into one corner...

[Warsaw]

You can level the Spit with the rudder. You can't do that on the 109. Good news is that both planes have a sweet spot where it will stop it's continuous twisting or whatever after you pull a few maneuvers.

[rossmum]

The twist axis on my joystick is also mush, meaning that unless I constantly adjust the rudder trim, not even that could keep me level.

[Warsaw]

Sucks. My Sidewinder 2 has just a very slight roll to the right, but you can tap it to the left and it will stay centred. Does adjusting the prop help at all?

[rossmum]

It helps conserve fuel and keep the engine from overheating, but that's about it... throttling back or decreasing the revs will reduce torque roll but not by much.

[Warsaw]

Thought some of you here might want to take a look at this:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/logitechs-flight-system-g940-joystick-almost-replaces-flight-sc/
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/06/logitech-g940-joystick.jpg

[Amit]

Check this out:

http://saitek.com/uk/images/Product/flight_fip_6mounted.jpg

http://saitek.com/uk/images/product/propanel.jpg

http://saitek.com/uk/images/product/rudder.jpg

http://saitek.com/uk/images/product/x52pro.jpg

http://saitek.com/uk/images/product/pfheadset.jpg

[Warsaw]

Fourth picture is the X-52 Pro I mentioned. The top one is the winsauce, but is way too far out of most peoples' price ranges, and I don't much enjoy flying with a yoke. The rest is win.

The thing about that Logitech set I posted is that it has throttle, pedals, stick, and Force Feedback.

[rossmum]

I'm looking out for an X52 Pro, although I'd like a throttle quadrant with three levers rather than just one huge one (mixture, throttle, pitch); if there's a way to mix and match this stuff (unlikely I guess, but oh well), the X52 Pro stick with a pair of good pedals and the top throttle quadrant would own. I'm a fighter pilot ingame, I almost never fly bombers; a yoke would be useless to me.

[Warsaw]

Well, P38...but I digress, a stick works just as well for that.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind either that Logitech getup or the X-52 Pro. Anything is better than my Sidewinder, which is respectable in its own right, but it's old, and starting to get loose 'cuz I've worn her out.

[rossmum]

The thing is that even the heavier fighters with yokes (P-38, some Mossie variants) and even a lot of the bombers had the sort of yoke which pulls backwards or pushes forwards rather than pops in and out like a lot of civvy runabouts do these days.

[Warsaw]

Yeah, true. I hate civvie planes...did I ever tell you that?

[rossmum]

Nope, but I'm pretty much with you. They look ugly, they fly like crap, and in general my mentality towards buying a plane is "warbird or nothing".

[Warsaw]

Exactly.

So, today I was playing some Quick Missions, ja? Well, I downed a several planes in the P-38, okay, great. I decided to see if I can down a P-38. I can't. Best match to it I found so far was the FW.190 D9 (beastly climb rate on both the P38 and D9). The P-38 couldn't hit me, and every time he overshot me, I couldn't get the crosshairs on top of him before he was out of effective range again...I would've lost anyways, simply because the AI has unlimited fuel and ammo.

=|

[rossmum]

No they don't.

[Warsaw]

Maybe not if you start a fuel leak on it, but I know they have infinite ammo. This one Spit was firing for way longer than I could have if I were flying the same plane.

[rossmum]

I'm quite sure they don't, and I know for a fact that their fuel is definitely limited. The AIs fire in ridiculously long bursts, which gives the impression that they have unlimited ammo, but I've seen Spits run out of cannon ammo and continue hosing with their MGs until they run out, too.

Trust me, unless you've got some fucked settings or a fucked mod, the only bullshit moves they can pull involve lack of engine overheating and lack of blackout.

[Warsaw]

So, since I haven't tried any Russian planes (ironic, isn't it?), I decided to try a Yak. The Yak-9 wanted to turn to the right and was too heavy for my taste, so I then went with a Yak-3R...that thing ran out of fuel in no time flat. So then I went with just your standard Yak-3...that plane is the Jesus plane. Easily outmanoeuvred the Bf109, and even let me maneuver tight enough to compete and down a Spit in a turning fight; it also makes a very stable gun platform once you trim the rudder.

In separate news, I downed a Spit in a Bf109 with my aileron controls shot out...that was amazing. I also made my first landing...in a Spitfire. :-3

[Phobias]

Loving this game so far.
Haven't played online yet (never anyone on). Favourite plane is the Seafire. Something about it just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy...right up until I run out of fuel or take ONE FUCKING BULLET TO A WING and suddenly find myself flying a missle aimed squarely at the ground.

[Warsaw]

Seafire is essentially the same thing as a Spitfire (hence the name).

[rossmum]

Loving this game so far.
Haven't played online yet (never anyone on). Favourite plane is the Seafire. Something about it just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy...right up until I run out of fuel or take ONE FUCKING BULLET TO A WING and suddenly find myself flying a missle aimed squarely at the ground.
About 4-8PM EST there are usually a few full servers, notably Skies of Fire and Skies of Valor. You'll need to run 4.08 to play on them though, if you have 4.09 find and download the version changer from AAA.


Seafire is essentially the same thing as a Spitfire (hence the name).
Not really, no. The Seafire I and II were probably the only two marks which could legitimately be called a Spitfire with a hook; they were simply navalised Mk.Vcs. The III was something of a Mk.V/Mk.IX frankenplane with folding wings, and as the Seafire progressed, it became less and less comparable to the Spitfire series. Spiritually yes, it was a Spitfire that flew from carriers at sea, but in terms of construction, performance, and what have you, they were quite different.

[Warsaw]

I said essentially...it has the essence of a Spitfire. =þ

[rossmum]

The Modacity Squadron's personal AC so far (I think for now we may as well be a rag-tag group flying whatever we're best with):

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/il-2%20stuff%2012%20jun/grab0027.png
Spitfire Mk.XVIe field-modded with original wingtips* TK421 ZC-D

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/uneditedjug.jpg
P-47D-27RE 44-28660 HM-M, 'Marcel's Mincer'

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/rossmumv2/il-2%20stuff%2012%20jun/grab0034.png
P-51D-20NA 44-13051 T4-N, 'Reaper Man' (currently unfinished)

You may notice my Spit bears victory markings, specifically nineteen of them; that's because since I started counting, I have made nineteen 'legit' (i.e. not rams, not crashes, etc.) kills online in Spitfires of all previous marks (I through XIV). My actual tally for the Spitfire is closer to twice that, but I'm ignoring those for the simple reason of not having an accurate record. Other personal AC (such as Snaf's and Reaper's) will get victory markings applied when they make some (confirmed) kills online.

*Production Mk.XVIs had clipped wings, though some were field-modified with the original wingtips added. The XVI was a Packard Merlin-engined variation on the Mk.IX design, and bore many improvements, most notably common issue of Ferranti Mk.II gyroscopic gunsights and bubble canopies; however some examples retained the old 'razorback' structure with a domed perspex hood. The XVI served manly in the ground-attack role, so all aircraft were rated for maximum power at lower altitudes.

[rossmum]

Fresh news: started an album for squadron stuff, located here (http://www.modacity.net/forums/album.php?albumid=110).

It appears I won't be off to Kapooka for at least five months, so we can get some shit organised before then - regular gamenights or practice sessions to get some of the newer players up to speed and keep the old hands sharp, 'patrols' (basically an excuse to mob up and then go gatecrash servers, really rip into the pubbies and show them how it's done), and organisational shit.

At some point in the future, I think we should adopt a common service and squadron identity, which means choosing which aviation branch of which country we want, and also selecting a letter code, a squadron number, a squadron insignia (probably just the Modacity cog), and so on.

If you want to get your vote in now, I suggest you do, as I certainly will.

Service: RAF Fighter Command
Squadron No.: 219
Squadron Code: 2V

Aircraft can be decided later, so we'll just ignore that for now. Don't freak out, this isn't taking effect immediately and it may not take effect at all.

[rossmum]

!!!WHIRLY UPDATE!!!


http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=202004#202004

[Warsaw]

Do I get a personal fighter? D=

Yak-3 pl0x (1944, not the RD or any of the fuxx0red variants). :-3

[rossmum]

PM or visitor message me the details (exact variant, colours, motifs, numbers, whatever) and I'll see what I can whip up

[Warsaw]

PM sent. :v:

[Sel]

can you make me the draco

I want to fly that

[Warsaw]

So I landed not only a Mustang today, but a Bf.109 F-2...and we all know how notorious the Bf.109 is for hard landings. I did while also besting a Spit in a turning battle...I feel accomplished, I'm getting good with the 109. :-3

P.S. To anyone who doesn't have the Sound Mod for this, GET IT. I dunno how or why, but it just seems to make your skill go up a little bit.

[rossmum]

Bugger that, find Jafa's sound mod (his videos are on YT with download links from there, username is jafaem) and install that. The Sound Mod is good, but Jafa's sounds absolutely shame it.

[rossmum]

!!!4.09 UPDATE EYE CANDY!!!

DP3aLX6QDW8
Zg76JI8mbzk

http://simhq.com/_air13/air_420a.html

[Phobias]

holy shit, that radar looks perfect.

[rossmum]

Yeah, once that's done, hopefully there'll be renewed interest in other NFs. Hoping someone will make the He219 (we have a 'frankenplane', but naturally it'll never even come close to perfect despite the skill of those who made it).

By the way I reinstalled PS so I'm still open to requests - Ace, yours still needs fine-tuning and the checkers could be a serious problem; Reaper, yours is pretty much done, just need to send it. I need to tweak Snaf's a little and my Spit IXe is about as close to perfect as I can get it.

[Warsaw]

Nice.

Also, late to the 4.09 party. :realsmug:

[TomClancy]

This looks like an awesome game, I'll have to look into getting it!

[Warsaw]

Oh rossy...you're going to love this.

Link (http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=11238)

[TomClancy]

Oh my. That's quite amazing.
I think I'll definitely get this game now, just need to get a cheepo $30 joy-stick to play.

[rossmum]

Oh rossy...you're going to love this.

Link (http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=11238)
Actually a few of the Il-2 guys build their own cockpits, one of them is working on a 109F right now

[Warsaw]

But do they tilt...I'd rather have the motion than a historically accurate cockpit. But I digress, $2800 is really steep for something that would cost about half as much to build on your own.

Still, one of those with three 30" monitors and a Track IR is really tempting.

[Teroh]

When I get home I'm definitely interested.

[Dwood]

I'd just as soon play AoE 2.

[Limited]

My housemate got this because it was cheap, graphics are great for such an old game. Game is good, although they seem to drag out the objectives (like kill planes, you gotta kill like 3 waves total of 30 planes) its like, they just seem to do the same thing, but alot of times.

[Warsaw]

And there's no way in hell you have enough ammo to do it anyways...

So I played the new Birds of Prey on 360. Obvious things first, controllers suck for flight sims, and there are not as many controls to begin with, even in sim mode. Now, aside from that, the graphics are great, the battles feel more like a war and less like an arena fight, and the planes sound better without modification.

[annihilation]

I'm interested. I've been looking for a good flight sim and this seems to be perfect.

[rossmum]

It is.

As a side note, the X-52 is perfect for this; the adjustment wheels make for excellent trimming controls, for starters. My only complaints are that the centre spring is so strong I have to jolt the whole stick occasionally, usually resulting in a near-stall (hopefully this will become a thing of the past as the stick sees more use), and the lack of force feedback leaves me without the stall warning shudder I'd become accustomed to. Glad as hell I bought it, though.

With regards to the recent failed attempts at organising games - sorry, but I couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery and only Goat was interested in helping me set things up. If we could get some more interest and some more organisers, we could actually get online, run some combat flying 101 classes, then go whack some pubbies.

[Warsaw]

Just listen to your engine bre, it will tell you when you are near a stall. Another good stick is the Saitek AV8R (the PC one, not the XBOX360 one).Good balance between firm resistance and ease of movement, has dual throttles, WWII-style switches, and is cheap enough to buy with a separate throttle quadrant. This is what I intend to do for Christmas, and follow up with some rudder pedals later down the line.

[rossmum]

I'm so used to the actual feedback, though. Normally I'd get screen shake and whatnot if I was pulling too hard, but when a stall was just about to hit I'd feel it, too. vOv

[Cortexian]

I was actually going to pick this up while I was out today, but 0/4 stores had it in stock or expected shipments.

Ugh.

Someone send me digital money so I can buy this :saddowns:

[Warsaw]

Have no way to buy it via Steam?

[Kolobus]

Have no way to buy it via Steam?

look harder

[rossmum]

he was asking The Shitposter why he isn't doing so

[Warsaw]

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5512/tempphoto1.jpg

Do I win?

[Con]

uniform noise :gonk:

There are a multitude of other things wrong with it, go look for a tutorial or some reference photographs. Maybe I'll make one eventually.

[Warsaw]

That was about three ounces of effort...I know it's a shitty photoshop job. I was more concerned with me (the Tempest) owning the shit out of that Bf.109...:caruso:.

It'd be an unconvincing photo anyways if only for the fact that there is no way in hell anybody could have taken that picture in WWII...physically impossible.

[Amit]

Oh that's supposed to look like a real photograph? I dunno...it doesn't have any fidelity to it. I seriously thought it was a high contrast photo from IL-2. Wait...that's what it is, isn't it?

[Warsaw]

Did you not read the last post?

L 2 trole, arrite?

E: When was the last time you saw gun-cam footage with fidelity?

[rossmum]

Guncam footage has a distinctive look, though, and it's not just straight noise. Also, guncams tend to be mounted in the wing root, not in front of the target looking back. :haw:

Who's keen to get a game together when I get back in Feb?

[InnerGoat]

Sure, if you want to get owned

[Warsaw]

Guncam footage has a distinctive look, though, and it's not just straight noise. Also, guncams tend to be mounted in the wing root, not in front of the target looking back. :haw:

Who's keen to get a game together when I get back in Feb?

Me, possibly. Australia and the east-coast US have a lolhuge time difference. Though, I need to know what mods and patches you are using. I'm currently on 4.09m with UP1.8 (soon UP 2.0) installed. UP and HSFX are almost the same thing, UP just has a few more features. The UIs, though I know you don't bother with them, are effectively discontinued with HSFX.

I got a new joystick for Christmas, and the dual throttles are a god-send. I played an offline scramble against 8 Tempest Mk. V Series I using the Bf.109 G6 (8 of us), and made three of the cleanest kills ever because the second throttle let me change flap positions easily. I even landed the sucker after I was done (an achievement because normally I quit before landing...).

Then my computer died when I hit the 'Save' button. :maddowns:

E: Saw you are in Canada...that makes the times easier.

[rossmum]

Yeah, but I have no games here.

Also AAA's split around Oct left me confused as fuck, so I'll have to work out what I need when I get everything else sorted - I point-blank refuse to download massive installers for tons of extraneous bullshit and like 5 mods i actually want.

[Warsaw]

Well, I use just about everything in the UP/HSFX. The addition of the Avia and the real-life performance flight models on the Bf.109s and Fw.190s make all the difference in the world to me. You may not use the effects mods though, and those make up about half of the pack. HSFX is barebones compared to UP though. All it really has are the planes and updated flight models (UP has more planes).

If it helps, HSFX is intended for online play.

[rossmum]

Why can't they just release this stuff singly and in packs rather than in packs only (or am I missing something here)

[Warsaw]

If you REALLY want to spend your time hunting down each individual aircraft, have at it. As far as effects mods go, you can find those singly. Most of the important ones are on AAA, just need to search for it.

What do you want, in particular?

[ExAm]

Who's keen to get a game together when I get back in Feb?I just bought an awesome joystick (http://www.amazon.com/T-flight-Hotas-Stick-PS3-Playstation-3/dp/B001CXYMFS/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t) with the amazon gift card I got for christmas, so hell yes.

[rossmum]

If you REALLY want to spend your time hunting down each individual aircraft, have at it. As far as effects mods go, you can find those singly. Most of the important ones are on AAA, just need to search for it.

What do you want, in particular?
Which have been released/updated in the last 3 months?

[Warsaw]

Well, there were quite a few Bf.109s released with new flight models. You've got a couple of 190s, a bunch of Spitfires (the list of flyable Spits is now longer than the 190 list and is almost rivaling the Bf.109 list), and the Mustangs with Real Life performance (I love stalling at 200mph). The Halifax was added in, still no love for the Lancaster. A bunch of interwar planes were added, but I can't recall the specifics. You've also got a lot of post-war planes like the Hawker Sea Fury, Mig-15, etc. (Korea-era planes mostly). The only negative thing I can say about the planes is that the Tempest doesn't handle as nicely as it did in UI1.1 and 1.2.

Now, for effects, you want to get the Uranium Effects Pack, which is the successor to the Platinum pack. It's very nice, and adds more realism to the game while removing the flashy Hollywood-style smoke trails and what not (there are still smoke trails where there should be). Personally, I also like the Perfect Ground Textures pack, but I think you said you don't care much for that.

There was also a Battle of Britain map released, in winter and summer flavours.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. The UP includes things like tougher trains and bridges mods, propwash effects, realistic atmospheric enhancers, and Zuti's Moving Dogfight Server mod (don't know what this does because I am primarily an offliner).

[rossmum]

post up some screens/renders/youtubes please!!!!

e/ or at least thread links

this site needs automerge for double posts

[Warsaw]

Uranium Effects (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23108&highlight=uranium+effects)

HSFX 4.1 (http://www.242sqn.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1920&highlight=)

Search AAA for the BoB stuff...there are multiple things related to it.

[ExAm]

That shit is so goddamn confusing, I can't even begin to comprehend what I'm looking at.

[Warsaw]

It's not that hard once it clicks. The file system in IL-2 is screwy, but all you need to know are where a few choice files go. Everything else is automated.

[ExAm]

It's not that, there's a shitload of information on that page, and I don't know where to start. Requesting a tl;dr here.

[rossmum]

Ugh. Between this and ArmA 2 I'm going to blow my download quota twice over when I get home - that or buy about 10 more USB flash sticks. Oh well. :|

Reckon you could get us some eye candy of the new birds to tide me over? Do the new Spits happen to include the early Mk.IX they were working on ages back?

[Warsaw]

Which would that be? The only planes that have Early or Late in their names are the Bf.109 series. I don't suppose that would be the Mk. XIVe, would it? There are three Mk. XIVs in the mod.

[rossmum]

No, the Mk.IXc as it first appeared in 1942, with the smaller, round-topped rudder, the smaller carby scoop, and various other minor differences.

Also, THREE XIVs? Did they finally release the bubbletop or what?

[Warsaw]

Sorry, two XIVs. The Bubbletop might be in UP2.0, but I'd have to go look at the changelog again. The Mk.XIVc is in HSFX though, as well as UP1.8.

Only pic I got before the game crashed:
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9426/siptxivc.jpg

My flying is positively atrocious with Spits. The terrible roll rate just doesn't jive with my style.

[rossmum]

Oh. You really had me going there, but alas, still only the same two I've had since they came out. :smith:

[ExAm]

Got me new joystick. Raped a few nazis.

[Warsaw]

Oh. You really had me going there, but alas, still only the same two I've had since they came out. :smith:

Sorry 'bout that mate. I fly German mostly, so the list of Allied planes is fuzzy when I try and remember which ones are available. If it makes you feel any better, they added more versions of the other marks as well with better flight models.

In separate news, I saw some of the new vids of Wings of Prey; it actually doesn't look half bad. The beta testers say it isn't quite as hardcore as IL-2, but they do say it is much, much closer to Sturmovik than Birds of Prey was.

Which stick you get ExAm?

E: Here you go Ross (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23970) :)

[ExAm]

This one. (http://www.amazon.com/T-flight-Hotas-Stick-PS3-Playstation-3/dp/B001CXYMFS/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t)

It separates into two pieces, has a resistance dial on the bottom, and enough buttons to map pretty much everything that needs to be at my fingertips. It could stand to be about 10% smaller, though. It's huge.

[Warsaw]

That doesn't look half bad at all. Now you just need some pedals and a TrackIR (or similar) to complete the experience.

I still need to get a throttle quadrant; I like having all the levers to control my flaps and such.

[ExAm]

This stick has a rotation control for the rudder built into the stick, and a rocker axis on the back of the throttle which can be locked to control the rudder as well, or mapped to something different. I'm quite satisfied with it, don't think I need the pedals.

[Warsaw]

I personally don't like the rotation control. It is very limited in motion and not at all intuitive when flying; I find that I hardly ever use my rudder for anything other than take-off because I forget that the stick can twist. Pedals just make flying that much easier.

[rossmum]

Sorry 'bout that mate. I fly German mostly, so the list of Allied planes is fuzzy when I try and remember which ones are available. If it makes you feel any better, they added more versions of the other marks as well with better flight models.

In separate news, I saw some of the new vids of Wings of Prey; it actually doesn't look half bad. The beta testers say it isn't quite as hardcore as IL-2, but they do say it is much, much closer to Sturmovik than Birds of Prey was.

Which stick you get ExAm?

E: Here you go Ross (http://allaircraftarcade.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23970) :)
HOLY LIVING FUCK

as soon as I get home remind me to download that

e/ Isn't WoP out? I might consider getting it, what with my mountains of money and mountains of HDD space. It looks pretty. It'll depend on exactly how arcadey it is. In the meantime, I'm pining for Il-2 and ArmA 2 hard. :smith:

[Warsaw]

HOLY LIVING FUCK

as soon as I get home remind me to download that

e/ Isn't WoP out? I might consider getting it, what with my mountains of money and mountains of HDD space. It looks pretty. It'll depend on exactly how arcadey it is. In the meantime, I'm pining for Il-2 and ArmA 2 hard. :smith:

Well, technically it is. But the final release is kind of a beta. The release is 1.0.2.1, where as the internal build is at 1.0.2.5 I think. It's all confusing as shit, but there are a bunch of DLC and patches in the works for it that expand it a lot. The stock WoP is still a much more complete game than BoP was.

[rossmum]

I'm still holding out for SoW. That game will just shit all over everything.

[ExAm]

I personally don't like the rotation control. It is very limited in motion and not at all intuitive when flying; I find that I hardly ever use my rudder for anything other than take-off because I forget that the stick can twist. Pedals just make flying that much easier.With a little finesse, you get used to it. I prefer the stick rotation over the rocker button on the throttle, simply because I find it easier to control all my rotation aspects with one stick, rather than splitting them between two sticks. It's like using the Legacy controls in Halo (which I started out with, because I only had experience with Metroid Prime until then, in terms of FPS). I imagine coordinating between the stick and the pedals for lining up my sights would be as cumbersome for me as the rocker switch + stick combo. I regularly use the rudder in combat, to precisely tune my aim on a target.

By the way, anyone have any nice missions I could play, or know of any good preset ones? So far I've only found one mission in the presets where the mission is just shoot-down-them-planes, which is what I prefer.

[rossmum]

I'm kinda bummed the X52 only has the one throttle lever, but at least it has that slider on the throttle. I set that to prop pitch, as flying the Spit in particular I need quick and easy control over my prop to save fuel while cruising and put on power I need for combat. I'm pretty bummed out that the game won't register the two throttle base-mounted scrollwheels by the MFD as I could use those too, perhaps for mixture and trim, but as it is I made do by putting elevator trim on the verticle throttle wheel and rudder trim on the horizontal. If you guys want I could actually send you a diagram or profile or something of my layout, I find it's pretty good for Il-2. It'd have to wait until I got home, of course.

[Warsaw]

I've got my controls covered. Flaps are on Throttle 2 and power is on Throttle 1. Elevator adjustment is on Toggle 2 and rudder is Toggle 3. Ailerons are on Toggle 4, but most planes don't have that. The 3-position switch is Gun Pods On/Off since IL-2 only recognises two positions.

I myself need some pedals and TrackIR. I can make do without the throttle quadrant for now.

Ross, which planes actually let you mess with mixture? Most of the ones I fly don't seem to have that enabled. And what prop pitch is ideal for which altitude/situation?

[Amit]

If you guys want I could actually send you a diagram or profile or something of my layout, I find it's pretty good for Il-2. It'd have to wait until I got home, of course.

This would be of great help, thanks.

[ExAm]

I'm pretty bummed out that the game won't register the two throttle base-mounted scrollwheels by the MFD as I could use those too, perhaps for mixture and trim, but as it is I made do by putting elevator trim on the verticle throttle wheel and rudder trim on the horizontal. If you guys want I could actually send you a diagram or profile or something of my layout, I find it's pretty good for Il-2. It'd have to wait until I got home, of course.
Get xpadder, register each direction on the wheels, map scroll directions to keys on your keyboard that you don't use often while playing, and map the + and - increments for your trim to those keys. Your scroll wheel will then increment the trim up or down once per scroll tick.

Also, If you use your hat switch for rotating your view, use xpadder to map the directions of that to mouse movement, and set the sensitivity ingame to your desired level. Much better than the awkward incremented panning the ingame controls use.

Speaking of all this binding, how the hell do I unbind controls ingame? Escape doesn't work, and delete and backspace are both bindable and don't clear the bind. Neither does right click.

[rossmum]

I have a TrackIR, no need to use the POV hat :realsmug:

Ace... I do have a book with a huge article written c. '41-42 for RAF pilots flying the Spitfire Mk.Vb which makes various observations regarding fuel economy at different settings; obviously the book is not handy right now but from memory, higher boost and lower RPM will achieve the same maximum continuous cruising speed for less fuel.

Considering the earlier Spitfires' max boost is about 16lbs and max RPM is about 3,000, I usually cut back to about 11lbs and 2,650RPM. From what I recall, that's pretty close if not exactly on one of the recommended cruise settings. I might just post the whole article when I get the chance.

[rossmum]

SOMEONE RELEASED A PR.XI?

FUCK FUCK FUCK

[Warsaw]

Fuck me. I can't save tracks. Every time I try it gives me some shitty memory read error.

Also, I can't turn right on the runway in certain planes...what the hell.

[ExAm]

UNBINDING. HOW.

[Warsaw]

Not a clue.

So I played the Wings of Prey demo. Controls take some getting used to. 75% of the old ones remain, though some of them aren't as finely tunable as they used to be. Graphics as far as I could run them were gorgeous. It is a bit more arcadey than the original, even in simulator mode. It's also much harder to play, which I am still trying to figure out. Also, I wouldn't recommend playing this game on any resolution lower than your monitor's native, otherwise you'll find it damn hard to acquire your target for more than a split second because the AI is much more adept at flying and because the camo actually works this time.

[ExAm]

So currently it takes me several minutes to successfully kill a measly FW190 due to not being able to keep my frigging guns on him for more than half a second at a time. Also, I can't evade fuckers on my tail, and find it damn near impossible to do a significantly damaging fly-by strike like the AI can do. Can't put enough bullets on target. Dammit, how do you people play this game?

[Warsaw]

It usually takes a few minutes to score a kill once you lose your altitude advantage. What you need to do is not tail the enemy as he climbs higher and higher. Keep in mind where he is at all times and climb on your own. If you tail him, he will just keep flying higher and you will never close. Climb on your own, and wait for him to make the fatal mistake of diving on you. Turn in to his attack to avoid being shot down, and let him overshoot.

Alternatively, you can engage in a scissors manoeuvre if your plane is better in the turn than his. The enemy will most likely overshoot and give you the perfect firing opportunity. When somebody is on your tail, best thing to do is dive and cut across his six in such a way that it makes it impossible for him to track you without blacking out (i.e. you are diving with a slight right bank, so make a sharp bank left and he will be unable to enter lead pursuit without blacking out and will thus be unable to make any threatening shots).

As for being unable to make devastating B&Z attacks, what are you flying? If you are flying American, it's because the .50s are simple ball ammunition and don't explode, meaning you have to dump a LOT of ammunition into one spot, or hit a critical area (aim for the engine when flying American). Germans are VERY dangerous when they make a flyby because they are armed with 2 to 4 13mm machine guns and either one or two 20mm cannons or a single 30mm cannon. All of their ammunition is explosive. Only options on the table for you are to fly a European plane with 20mm Hispanos (mid to late Spitfire and the Tempest) or or practice your gunnery with unloaded enemy planes on Quick Missions. Also, if there is a gyro in your plane of choice, try practising with each mode and see what works best for you.

Also, the FW.190 is far from being measly. The FW.190 A9 1.65ATA happens to be my personal plane of choice when I fly Axis (which is most of the time). :cool:


So, does anyone here aside from me like taking the pre-war and early-war planes out for a spin? If so, which are your favourites? I like flying the Avia B.534 on the Eastern front and the P-40B on the Western side. The carburetted engine on the Avia gives it some quirkiness which makes it a distinct challenge to fly well, especially when going against Bf.109 B-2s.

[ExAm]

The reason I called it measly is because I usually get completely wrecked by BF109s, and the FW190s can barely hit me. Also, played axis today. Holy fucking shit. So much easier to score kills.

[Warsaw]

Easier to score kills, but the planes are also less fancy. There is no trimming for the rudder or ailerons, only the elevator. They overheat pretty quickly if you run at 110% too long (I can run Tempests indefinitely at 110%), and the MW50 can ruin your engine. Also, less ammunition available and they suck down fuel. Axis planes are also generally terrible in turning battles, so what I told you about climbing and diving on your target still holds true. Do not, under any circumstance, try to engage a Spitfire in a turning fight.

You don't have to fly Axis to get cannons. Just try a Tempest on for size, or if you want to be like everyone else, a Spitfire (lol, Ross).

E: Glamour shot while practising on a Bf.109 with .50s:
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9329/scramblingfun.jpg

[rossmum]

you know i love my tempests but the spit is just beautiful beyond belief. i don't fly it because it's cool, i fly it because it's genuinely a pilot's plane.

[ExAm]

Installed the latest UP. I thought it would be a little bit... flashier. Is it supposed to have graphical improvements?

Flew the spit just because. Found that it has a habit of always slightly rolling to the right for some reason. Reset my joystick. Still no difference. What the hell?

[rossmum]

Joystick refuses to calibrate properly? Leaning on it to one side? Offset design causing weight to drag it off-centre (my old one did this all the time)?

[ExAm]

Doesn't happen in other planes. Also, just located the mod manager. Which ones will make the game look prettier?

edit: Ooh, hovertext. Nevermind.

edit: Flying the 262 is not my forte :(

http://imgur.com/SeU9M.jpg

It has a tendency to, uh, burst into flames.

[Warsaw]

Gotta keep it at 70% power or below. Only go higher in short bursts because it had heat issues even in real life.

As for Spit being a pilot's plane, maybe. It's a god-awful gun platform though, and the visibility is terrible with anything less than a full bubble canopy. Take the Tempest over it any day. I just can't for the life of me pilot a Spit. I can do well in the Mustang even with its terrible FM, but I've only ever once managed a kill in a Spit and that was a 1v1 on Rookie.

[rossmum]

The visibility is fine, it's far better than any given German plane (with the possible exception of the later 190s), and it's better than the stock Tempest's (in fact, it's not much worse than the P-51D or the modded Tempest). I guess your mirrors are still broken or something, but I've seldom had visibility issues in the Spit.

[ExAm]

Spit's visibility is pretty bad, I agree. The guns seem alright, though, and the handling is good.

Also, given that I play quick missions with overheat off, keeping the throttle at 90 in the 262 seemed to stop the engines from catching fire.

[rossmum]

You guys are crack babies. I can see everything out of the Spit's cockpit, the mirrors cover what you can't already see and the framing isn't bad. http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-colbert.gif

I bet the Whirlwind will be amazing, I can hardly wait :haw:

e/


Also, given that I play quick missions with overheat off, keeping the throttle at 90 in the 262 seemed to stop the engines from catching fire.
WHAT

play on full realism or get out you babby

[ExAm]

There's a level at which realism stops being fun and starts being really fucking annoying.

[Warsaw]

You guys are crack babies. I can see everything out of the Spit's cockpit, the mirrors cover what you can't already see and the framing isn't bad. http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-colbert.gif

I bet the Whirlwind will be amazing, I can hardly wait :haw:

e/

WHAT

play on full realism or get out you babby

Some of us don't have a TrackIR...:cheeseargh:.

All those bracings in your face in the Spit's office? Without a Track IR, and not being able to use the mouse with the left had worth a damn, it is almost impossible to keep track of the enemy ...

...and that's why I leave map icons on. I can't be assed to fly haphazardly just to look at the ground with a wonky POV hat.

[rossmum]

There's a level at which realism stops being fun and starts being really fucking annoying.
nope sorry you are a big gay babby until you turn full realism on

as much as i love to marvel at my plane, i don't even have external cams on anymore. i use tracks for that purpose. i am a better man (and pilot) for it. plus, immersion.


Some of us don't have a TrackIR...:cheeseargh:.

All those bracings in your face in the Spit's office? Without a Track IR, and not being able to use the mouse with the left had worth a damn, it is almost impossible to keep track of the enemy ...

...and that's why I leave map icons on. I can't be assed to fly haphazardly just to look at the ground with a wonky POV hat.
you realise i was flying the spit for like a year at least before i got my trackir

with mirrors on and a pov hat, it's no worse than a tempy or a mustang. seriously.

that said, a p-51d with mirrors is a different story.

[Warsaw]

For some reason, mirrors aren't working on my computer anymore. They are there in third person, but in the office I can't see them. I'd love to have them back, because I keep getting jumped by Fw.190s when I play my favourite scramble...

[rossmum]

Hi everyone! I stopped playing this shortly after my most recent post in here, because AAA folded while I was overseas and then the 4.09m patch released and broke the hell out of my mod install. A combination of not wanting to play without my mods and not wanting to redownload the whole game meant I didn't play for like 2 years, but I now have it reinstalled and am playing again (albeit vanilla because I keep forgetting where the new mod scene is at). I still love my Spit, but I have seen the true light: the I-185. It is a rocket by 1942 standards, it will out-turn just about anything, and it handles so nicely it's not funny. It also has hands-down the best forward/upward cockpit visibility in the game, and pretty good rearward as well. It will eat late-model 109s and 190s like they are nothing, going further still to prove that people who refuse to fly anything other than late-war ARYAN MASTER RACE PLANES are fucking idiots.

http://i.imgur.com/lpWpp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eGyzt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2TK7B.jpg

The only downsides are next to no armour protection, weak armament (in the I-185-82A), and really that's about it. Strong torque left is easily compensated for by a little right rudder trim.

[Warsaw]

I can't spray down targets, which is half the reason I fly nothing but 109s, 190s, and Tempests. I make snap-shots that usually take off a wing or blow out engines. Fuck the P-51's handling.

That said, I have spent quite a bit of time in the MiG-3 and in the LA-5/7 series aircraft. I enjoy the latter quite a bit with its insanely fast 20mm cannons.

[TeeKup]

I really enjoyed Birds of Prey on the 360, considering the computers ive used couldnt run the PC games. Shame the online servers were shut down. ._.

[Warsaw]

I actually have it on 360. The planes handle like nutsacks and they all sound like lawnmowers.