Windows 8

[Heathen]

I get questions periodically about whether Windows 7 marks the end of the Microsoft operating system road.


Some users wonder whether will Microsoft’s next version of Windows be completely cloud-based? Will it be Midori with the Windows name slapped on it?


No and no. The bottom line: Windows isn’t done when Windows 7 is released to manufacturing (most likely in late fall 2009). Windows 8 has been on the drawing board/planning stages for a while now. And as the “Codename Windows” blog recently reported, Microsoft is starting to hire developers specifically for Windows 8.



Codename Windows highlighted last week a Microsoft job posting from April 14, seeking someone to help with the next generation of the Distributed File System Replication (DFSR) storage technology inside the next version of Windows:

“For the upcoming version of Windows, new critical features are being worked on including cluster support and support for one way replication. The core engine is also being reworked to provide dramatic performance improvements. We will also soon be starting major improvements for Windows 8 where we will be including innovative features which will revolutionize file access in branch offices.”
There’s another Windows 8 job posting from April 16 that focuses on Windows 8 Server (a k a Windows Server 2011 or whatever it ends up being called). It’s for another job focused on the Windows file system:

“In Windows Server 2008 R2 release, the Server UX Test team (under the File Server Management organization) is finalizing the MMC [Microsoft Management Console] based User eXperience (UX)/Interfaces for the File Server Role. Currently the team owns DFS [Distributed File System] Management, Share and Storage Management, FSRM [File Server Resource Manager] & Classification UI, Disk Management, SMFS. For Windows 8, the SSD organization is working on the next version of the file server.


“As the team moved to Windows 8, you will have 2 main responsibilities - (i) put on the customer/design critique hat as we plan our next version file server management experience (i) participating in the architectural design, and development and driving automated testing for managing the next generation file server. Our current automation does not meet the multi-machine paradigm requirement and so you will contribute significantly in the development of test automation to validate setup/configuration of the new server, managing configuration changes, performing diagnostics and reporting using Power Shell, Command line, Object Model, UI.”
If Microsoft sticks to the kind of schedule to which it has adhered with Windows 7, Windows 8 will be released around 2011 (with Microsoft publicly promising a 2012 delivery target). While it’s way too early to speculate what kinds of features will be in it, it definitely is in the works….


Any early requests for features/functionality you’re hoping makes it into Windows 8 client and server?

here (http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2559)

Jesus fucking Popsicle. Already?!

[AAA]

Yeah, they'd be better off not announcing the development of Windows 8 already, expecially since the already anticipated release of Windows 7. :eyesroll: Just lame.

[sdavis117]

Still less upgrading then a Mac. Which is a good thing.

I am of course going to (this late in it's life) skip Vista. I will get 7, but I see that as a long term investment. 7 was in development around the same time that Vista was, so with 8 starting this late in the game, I don't see it coming out anytime soon.

[BobtheGreatII]

Why is it wrong for a company to have future plans?

[=sw=warlord]

Im not suprised their working on the next version.
As a division they must keep jobs going and so as soon as they near the end of one project, start work on the next using what they learned with the last.

[Heathen]

Why is it wrong for a company to have future plans?
Its not. Its the fact that its being worked on before their current product is even finished.

Thats...idk. You at least wait till your done making Episode IV before starting on Episode V :/

[Donut]

Its not. Its the fact that its being worked on before their current product is even finished.

Thats...idk. You at least wait till your done making Episode IV before starting on Episode V :/
unless episode IV has subtle things in it and threads left untied purposely to wow the people when they experience V. as in "wow i remember that guy from IV, now i know where he ended up going when he randomly went missing"

better yet, that guy who died in episode II? he has a brother. yeah.

[Joshflighter]

"Microsoft is a software company at heart. They always believe they can 'upgrade or patch' things they know dont work later. To bad it failed them when it came to the 360."

:rolleyes:

[Hotrod]

I guess it's not bad for them to be working on Windows 8 so soon, but I think they should have waited a bit before announcing that...

[Heathen]

same

[ThePlague]

Screw that, if I get something else it's going to be Windows 7.

[sdavis117]

They were working on Windows 7 before they started work on Vista. Starting W8 when 7 is just about finished is not that big of a deal. The fact is is that it is going to be years before they finish W8 means that we won't actually see it for quite a long time.

[Nick]

You ramp up on your next project as your current project nears completion. That is how it works in the software development business. Game developers (Bungie, Gearbox, Valve, Epic) do it, OS developers (Microsoft, Apple) do it, consumer device developers (Nokia, RIM, Apple) do it, general software developers (Adobe, Autodesk) do it, etc. It's how you utilize your resources and it's how you keep cash flow healthy - that's business and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

If Microsoft were not planning Windows 8 prior to the release of Windows 7, you should be concerned. Think that's wrong? Go learn about software development, go learn about project management, go learn about resource distribution and the trending of resource usage throughout a project cycle.

Also, a Windows 8 release in 2012 returns to the 3 year release cycle Microsoft had prior to Vista. Vista was very late, it should have been out by 2004/2005.

Nick

[leorimolo]

Nick the real question is, will Prometheus be supported on Windows 8?

[Nick]

Nick the real question is, will Prometheus be supported on Windows 8?
Sorry, it's going to be a Windows 9 exclusive. You will need a DX13 video card an 64-core processor. It will have Halo 4 support, though - a fair trade I think.

Nick

[paladin]

Didnt you hear about the Xbox 1080?

[Heathen]

and w9 will still get BSOD.

[Cortexian]

and w9 will still get BSOD.
Every version of Windows will have BSoD... It's like the default way to say "you broke this shit, suck less".

[BobtheGreatII]

and w9 will still get BSOD.

You silly people and your user error...

[Heathen]

You silly people and your user error...
Never got it with W7 :D

[Cojafoji]

There's no point in not announcing it. I'd be reassured, that one of the worlds leading software companies is ALWAYS working on something new, regardless of a production phase on one of their software items. Innovation at all times sounds and looks alot better then stagnating for four years while they make one thing.

[NullZero]

Never got it with W7 :D
I have yet to get it with Windows Vista :)

It's good to see that the people at microsoft are still trying to improve things (or at least they say they are)

[sevlag]

well lets all agree to disagree by saying that there is bound to be stuff people don't like with windows 8 as well as things people may like


isnt that what software/hardware is about? pros and cons

oh and don't forget to throw out your Mp3 players...Microsoft is releasing the new Mp5...heard they have hologram support xD

[JunkfoodMan]

They need to build an operating system from scratch again, goddammit.
"Midori" with a windows name slapped on it would be great.

[Nick]

There's no point in not announcing it. I'd be reassured, that one of the worlds leading software companies is ALWAYS working on something new, regardless of a production phase on one of their software items.
This thread proves why you do not publicly announce that you are working on the next, next version of your product. People do not understand why you would do that and they question the quality of your next version. There are numerous reasons beyond ignorance, though: brand dilution, misdirected media attention, to-be-determined final product naming, etc.


well lets all agree to disagree by saying that there is bound to be stuff people don't like with windows 8 as well as things people may like
I don't understand this comment at all. Who said anything about not liking something with Windows 8? There is no new list of features, changes, or other considerations even rumored for it yet (beyond what's describing in the job posting). That was never the issue people brought up.

People were complaining that they were starting Windows 8 before finishing Windows 7. The logic behind that is not something you can agree to disagree on - it's just good business practice and common sense when you have as many resources as Microsoft. If you disagree about that, then you're just wrong.


They need to build an operating system from scratch again, goddammit.
"Midori" with a windows name slapped on it would be great.
Microsoft is not Apple, Windows is not Mac OS; they have an actual userbase to worry about and won't be slapping a GUI on a pre-existing OS when they do make a massive shift. Until there is a transparent, reliable, and highly performant solution to maintain application compatibility post-rearchitecturing the underlying foundation of the OS, you won't see them dumping their codebase just for the hell of it (and even then, they won't).

Virtualization will one day make unparalleled backwards compatibility a reality, but it just is not there yet. The current methods of supporting compatibility simply cannot survive the paradigm shift that would come with an OS rearchitecture.

Also, if you're smart, you never, ever just scrap your code. It's a terrible idea. You lose a massive history when you do that and you open yourself up to millions (literally in the case of Windows) of new bugs, retesting everything, finding all the specification holes you previously filled, etc. Refactoring is massively preferable to rewriting, any good programmer will tell you this. There are several great article on the topic, but here's one (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html) I remember from a while ago.

Oh, and no, you don't want Midori with the Windows brand slapped on it. Good luck using an absolutely infantile OS with lacking hardware support, application compatibility, and unfinished / unproven functionality in: business environments, multimedia playback, networking / communications, and much, much more. Midori is a research OS, bits of it will eventually get rolled into the existing Windows codebase, but only when it's ready.

Remember kids, making software is hard. Don't underestimate it.

Nick

[Hotrod]

Never got it with W7 :D
I've never had it with any version of Windows I've used:D

[Nick]

I've never had it with any version of Windows I've used:D
Ah, so Vista is your first version of Windows? Welcome to the platform. You came at a good time.

Nick

[BobtheGreatII]

Ah, so Vista is your first version of Windows? Welcome to the platform. You came at a good time.

Nick

No offense Nick. But you signing all your posts makes me wanna punch small animals.

BobtheGreatII

Lol.

[Nick]

No offense Nick. But you signing all your posts makes me wanna punch small animals.

BobtheGreatII
I've heard that before, but it has never stopped me :)

Nick

[Cojafoji]

This thread proves why you do not publicly announce that you are working on the next, next version of your product. People do not understand why you would do that and they question the quality of your next version. There are numerous reasons beyond ignorance, though: brand dilution, misdirected media attention, to-be-determined final product naming, etc.

Yeah, I see that now. Oh well.

[Corndogman]

I've also never gotten BSOD and I've been using since 98, and have used all versions up, except for 2000. Its called not breaking your computer. =)

[Nick]

I've also never gotten BSOD and I've been using since 98, and have used all versions up, except for 2000. Its called not breaking your computer. =)
It's pretty stunning to have never had a BSOD, given that you used 98 and XP. Often times BSODs are the fault of drivers - not caused by the user or Microsoft.

Graphics card drivers were easily one of the largest causes of BSODs prior to Vista, where Microsoft implemented a new driver model for graphics devices. Since Vista, graphics card drivers are executed primarily in user mode instead of kernel mode. Essentially that means if the driver crashes, it will restart just like a crashed application would; previously, it would crash the entire system and force a restart.

Of course, other drivers can cause BSODs as well. Major culprits I have seen besides graphics drivers have been: network cards, sound cards, and the NTFS (disk I/O) driver. Even some of the crap applications install can cause a BSOD, such as QuickTime. There have been improvements in mitigating those crashes as well, but they do still happen on occasion.

Regardless, having never seen a BSOD makes you a very lucky individual who probably never installed new drivers or ran on older, very stabilized hardware / driver combinations.

Nick

[Hotrod]

Ah, so Vista is your first version of Windows? Welcome to the platform. You came at a good time.

Nick
No, I've had 95, 98, XP, Vista and now 7.

[Limited]

Nick is 100% correct, cant believe I'm saying it.

Problem here Nick, is 90% of the people are art people, who have no understanding of engineering software.

[Needles]

Ah, so Vista is your first version of Windows? Welcome to the platform. You came at a good time.

Nick

I get/got a lot of BSODs, on vista and xp. Sometimes from something as simple as UT3 not being able to load a map files correctly. Because they overheat, shut down wrong, or just get it because of a very short driver failure.

Needles/Madkiller92

[Phopojijo]

Uhm... if you get bluescreens from UT3 you might have bad RAM... especially if you get a LOT of bluescreens.

Run memtest overnight.

[p0lar_bear]

Well, the average dipshit (like myself) doesn't know actually just how large Microsoft's employee base is, so we just scratch our heads in bewilderment as to how they're supporting XP and Vista, and putting the final ties onto W7, all while they're also whipping up W8.

It's just perception.

[ICEE]

I don't understand why people bitch so much about windows being unreliable. The only BSODs I have ever had were while playing Halo CE on my xp notebook, because my drivers were old. as fuck. Since I got vista on my new PC I have had no problems. I find it fast, easy to use and reliable.

[MetKiller Joe]

From experience:

I have a computer which I made myself (I'm sure that is the case with many people here as well), and it isn't the most stable thing on the planet (overheating, BSODs, random crashes aren't uncommon).

I used Vista in the early stages, and it really didn't impress me. I had enough trouble with my computer that it didn't make it worth my while (the only difference was DX10 and H2V support, and that didn't make me want to keep Vista).

So, I guess I'm jaded. I run XP, albeit barely, on this machine right now. It is probably my fault for installing program after program (oh, I need a avi to ipod vid converter; oh, I need this stupid app to open this unknown file extension! I'm going to install this game, oh crap, it's an .flv, have to download an app for that [you know how it goes]), clogging the registry's arteries like the guy from Super size me. I'm still learning how to keep a stable install.

As for migration, it is pain in the ass. A real pain in the ass. One has to make sure everything is backed up on a different HDD if it isn't already. One has to reinstall everything after the reinstall. Drivers have to be found again, and then they might not work. Oh! Woops! I've been doing XYZ consistently on XP and now the same simple task is impossible without 2 patches, one of which you'll figure out needs to be downloaded off some Russian mirror because the oldest one was taken off the company's site. You'll find out that driver crashes your computer. So, now, you spend the night and two more on internet forums driving to figure out what the hell is going on.

Migration is like pulling teeth, in my opinion. I wish I knew the secret to a stable install and a list of 100 apps that do common place tasks without nagware, spyware, trialware, or any other kind of crapware.

[Nick]

Well, the average dipshit (like myself) doesn't know actually just how large Microsoft's employee base is, so we just scratch our heads in bewilderment as to how they're supporting XP and Vista, and putting the final ties onto W7, all while they're also whipping up W8.
There are 91,000 full time Microsoft employees. That isn't including the number of contractors they hire on a 1-12 month basis to supplement product teams and support. Also, Tier 1 support is often outsourced to companies who, in turn, escalate worthy issues to internal Tier 2 and Tier 3 support teams.

The "average dipshit" can find out how many people Microsoft employs via many financial sites, such as Yahoo Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=MSFT).


Migration is like pulling teeth, in my opinion. I wish I knew the secret to a stable install and a list of 100 apps that do common place tasks without nagware, spyware, trialware, or any other kind of crapware.
Ironically, Vista has a pretty decent backup tool where XP lacked a quality one. As far as finding clean software, you should look at Softpedia; never had a problem with anything I downloaded from there.

I build my own machines as well and they are rock solid, so you may just have build issues. There are hardware compatibility issues (i.e. check your motherboard's manual for a list of tested RAM modules), cooling issues (poor airflow or insufficient cooling), and you shouldn't mess with overclocking (if you have) unless you know the ins and outs of it.

Migration in general is always a bitch. That's why I have an "OS / Apps" hard drive and a "Data" RAID 1 array. When I want to change my OS or reinstall, I simply wipe the OS drive and reinstall my apps - all my data is just there once I re-map the folders and it's also backed up. The only solution you're going to find for making reinstalling the same OS easy would be making an image of your entire system (the Vista backup tool does this, by the way) after you install the OS, all updates, and all your applications. That way, when you want to start fresh, you just restore your image and everything feels "new" again - all installed in about an hour.

Nick

[MetKiller Joe]

Migration in general is always a bitch. That's why I have an "OS / Apps" hard drive and a "Data" RAID 1 array. When I want to change my OS or reinstall, I simply wipe the OS drive and reinstall my apps - all my data is just there once I re-map the folders and it's also backed up. The only solution you're going to find for making reinstalling the same OS easy would be making an image of your entire system (the Vista backup tool does this, by the way) after you install the OS, all updates, and all your applications. That way, when you want to start fresh, you just restore your image and everything feels "new" again - all installed in about an hour.

Nick
Is there anyway to reinstall things back to the registry without going through hours of manual reinstalling? I have a hard drive with my applications already installed there, so I'd like to just be able to let Windows know "they are over there", so-to-speak; or is that just not possible?

I love poetic justice. I whine about migration, and my 9 month old Windows XP install kicks the bucket.

[Nick]

Is there anyway to reinstall things back to the registry without going through hours of manual reinstalling? I have a hard drive with my applications already installed there, so I'd like to just be able to let Windows know "they are over there", so-to-speak; or is that just not possible?
Impossible, sorry. When an installer runs, it writes application-specific values to the registry as well as registers its components, etc. You would have a world of problems if you tried to circumvent proper installation for those applications.

Nick

[klange]

Impossible, sorry. When an installer runs, it writes application-specific values to the registry as well as registers its components, etc. You would have a world of problems if you tried to circumvent proper installation for those applications.

Nick
That's rarely ever the case. Assuming you have access to the old registry in some way, you can extract what you need. That's how I moved Photoshop 7 to my laptop many years ago.

[Cojafoji]

Yeah, I do mass strippings from computer's registry's all the time. You can just package the extracted reg files into a self installer, and then dump it onto your new computer.

[Nick]

I'll just say that you're playing with fire ...

Nick

[Syuusuke]

Make sure you use your marshmallows properly.