GM Lays off 21,000...and Pontiac is dead.

[Jean-Luc]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/finance/20090426/US.GM.Plan/

:(

On an even sadder note, there is potential for the phasing out of Hummer, Saturn, and Saab as well.

[TeeKup]

Fuck that, I love Saturn. D:

[SnaFuBAR]

Ironically, Iraqi's were the biggest buyer of Hummers this year. :lol:

But this does not bode well for our economy.

[Masterz1337]

Nooooo... Not Jazz :(

[jcap]

I'm disappointed to see Pontiac go :(

[Sel]

Glad to see they're going to have the government take more control over their bigger businesses. It was their lack of regulating almost all of the aspects of their economy that got them into this mess.

Still sucks though

[Cojafoji]

This is what happens when your R&D department are stifled, abused, and blatantly told to stagnate development. I'm a great lover of Pontiac muscle, especially the motherfucking GTO Judge, and the Chevrolet Blazer, but let's look at a list of GM's subsidiaries. They should've dropped production into three or four main brands, not fucking 12.

Buick, not great
Cadillac, expensive as fuck, lack of new designs that were affordable
Chevrolet, good american truck
Daewoo, shit
GMC, total shit. bringing them down for years
Holden, nice concepts, but australian...
Hummer, fucking retarded, don't get me started.
Opel, wtf
Pontiac, total shit in recent years.
Saab, fucking expensive as shit, to own, and fix.
Saturn, terrible plastic cars.
Vauxhall, wtf

[sdavis117]

I thought I heard that a Chinese company was buying Hummer.

[Phobias]

\
Holden, nice concepts, but australian...


What's wrong with that? Apart from the fact that Holden is owned by Vauxhaul.

[Mr Buckshot]

Cadillac, expensive as fuck, lack of new designs that were affordable


Not that expensive relative to those German premium brands like Mercedes-Benz, etc...the full-size DTS is half the price of the Mercedes-Benz S-Class. Cadillac is meant to compete with brands like Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc, not with Hyundai or Ford. It's a matter of being locally produced versus being imported that explains the major price differences.

Pity...I was starting to like Cadillac, especially its new CTS sedan and Escalade Hybrid. Buick wasn't great, Chevrolet is...ok, but I prefer Toyotas as economy cars.

e: whoa I haven't heard of opel/holden until now (cause they aren't sold in North America).

[ThePlague]

Glad Hummer is dying. The only ones I hate to see gone are Pontiac, Chevrolet, Saturn, and Opel.

[Xetsuei]

Glad Hummer is dying. The only ones I hate to see gone are Pontiac, Chevrolet, Saturn, and Opel.

Chevrolet isn't going. Even if it was, I would find who in the government made the decision to make GM drop Chevrolet, and brutally murder them. Chevrolet FTW.

[Cojafoji]

What's wrong with that? Apart from the fact that Holden is owned by Vauxhaul.
herp derp, GM owns vauxhaul.

also, xet, i like your thinking.

[Con]

On an even sadder note, there is potential for the phasing out of Hummer, Saturn, and Saab as well.
OH DAMN NOT HUMMER :mech3:
Saturn and Saab are unfortunate though

[Guzzie]

This is what happens when your R&D department are stifled, abused, and blatantly told to stagnate development. I'm a great lover of Pontiac muscle, especially the motherfucking GTO Judge, and the Chevrolet Blazer, but let's look at a list of GM's subsidiaries. They should've dropped production into three or four main brands, not fucking 12.

Buick, not great Best selling brand in china, you'd be a fucktard to get rid of it.
Cadillac, expensive as fuck, lack of new designs that were affordable Good and reliable, priced relatively well for a LUXURY BRAND
Chevrolet, good american truck trucks/SUV's should be rolled into GMC everything else is pretty good, malibu, camaro, cobalt(cruze)
Daewoo, shit
GMC, total shit. bringing them down for years brand has the highest profit margin of any GM brand, fleet sales make it HIGHLY PROFITABLE
Holden, nice concepts, but australian... fucking zeta platform thats absolutely bomb, pontiac g8 is based on it and is a solid car. keep it.
Hummer, fucking retarded, don't get me started.
Opel, wtf pretty sweet brand actually, this or vauxhall, one needs to go or get combined for a unified european brand, mostly the same cars anyway.
Pontiac, total shit in recent years. the vibe(matrix), solstice(sky), and g8 were the only things worth keeping and were pretty good cars although all will be still available somewhere in the world
Saab, fucking expensive as shit, to own, and fix. brand has been in the shitter since the death of the original saab 900, which even then had issues. always quirky as fuck
Saturn, terrible plastic cars. Astra and sky would like to have a word with you, but they are european so fuck it should go
Vauxhall, wtf could be valuable for brand identity in UK
ftfy

Basically end up with these,

Chevrolet - mid size cars and crossovers
GMC - Trucks and SUV's
Cadillac - Luxury Segment
Opel - European hatches and compacts
Holden - Australian utes and whatever
Buick - China and other asian areas

Badge engineering is fine as long as there only one variant per region. IMO

[Xetsuei]

ftfy

Basically end up with these,

Chevrolet - mid size cars and crossovers
GMC - Trucks and SUV's
Cadillac - Luxury Segment
Opel - European hatches and compacts
Holden - Australian utes and whatever
Buick - China and other asian areas

Badge engineering is fine as long as there only one variant per region. IMO

Don't forget the Corvette for Chevrolet. The ZR1 is the best bang for your buck supercar there is.

[cheezdue]

You lazy bums riding your cool cars down the road, riding on tricycles is the shit.

[paladin]

My dad just bough a Saturn Sky.. hope they honor his warranty

[Atty]

As long as the keep the G8 GXP or whatever it is design and re-engineer it to Chevrolet I'm happy. That car is a beast.

Also, who cares as long as they keep the 'Vette's and Camaro's.

[Cojafoji]

Let me brake this down for you. I've driven every brand, though different makes, models and years.

Buick - Not that great, in China, or America. Once skidded into an embankment in one (it was rainy), I was doing about 5 miles an hour, and the frame wracked at an absurd angle. Done that kind of stuff in other cars, same angle & speed, no wracking.

Cadillac - Expensive as fuck, however competitively priced you want to call it. Fucking gas guzzlers to the max.

Chevrolet - Good trucks, as well as good cars. Fantastic mid size trucks, as well as the sedans.

GMC - Shittiest fucking trucks I've ever been in. I have no idea why, but when you run a Jimmy up against the same year Chevy Blazer, or Ford Bronco, it gets raped. They're basically the same trucks, right? Kind of, except most of the Jimmy's I've seen go straight to hell. Their heavy duty trucks stink.

Pontiac - Haven't made anything worth while in fucking 30 years. Style factors into it.

Saab - Fucked itself. Drove around a 900 for a year and a half with a friend. Good power & performance, but shit just got nasty. When things go wrong, they go wrong, and the prices... Jesus, the prices would make your hair stand on end for part prices.

Saturn - Never been in a Saturn I've liked. End of story. I actually broke the shifter in one, something like a '98. Everything on them is cheap.

Run your sales numbers by me all you want, but it still won't change the fact that these brands tanked in the US.

[rossmum]

Holden basically owns, I can't see it ever dying while Australia still has enough cash to throw at it. They're one of our national icons.

[n00b1n8R]

Oh no, now there will be less cars for me to wish I owned/hate and argue about with other people with opposing opinions!!

Sucks for the jobs though.

[El_Diablo]

Well, they deserve it.
They shouldn't have fucked off with our money.

[Jean-Luc]

Pontiac - Haven't made anything worth while in fucking 30 years. Style factors into it.

Don't you be dissin my 2001 Sunfire :mad:

[StankBacon]

lmfao the sunfire is a hideous car.

[Jean-Luc]

lmfao the sunfire is a hideous car.

Oi, it drives well, I think it looks nice, and the sound system is rock. Bugger off :maddowns:

[tehgrunt]

crysler will die within about 1-3 months if it doesnt let fiat rape them. ford will probably survive. GM will most likely die within 4 months to 1 year. economy will get worse, riots all over the world, and obama screwed the whole world in the ass with his "stimulus" that just fucked things up even worse.

lulz it probably wont get that bad but id be k if it did

[=sw=warlord]

crysler will die within about 1-3 months if it doesnt let fiat rape them. ford will probably survive. GM will most likely die within 4 months to 1 year. economy will get worse, riots all over the world, and obama screwed the whole world in the ass with his "stimulus" that just fucked things up even worse.

lulz it probably wont get that bad but id be k if it did
You realise this whole plan was going ahead before obama got inaugurated right?

[Mr Buckshot]

Oi, it drives well, I think it looks nice, and the sound system is rock. Bugger off :maddowns:

My neighbour got a used Sunfire 2-door coupe (2001) as his first car. Been in it, it's allright I guess but small cars aren't my type, I prefer big four door models like the Toyota Camry or the Honda Accord. I was surprised by the Sunfire's performance on Highway 99 though.

[Xetsuei]

Been in it, it's allright I guess but small cars aren't my type, I prefer big four door models like the Toyota Camry or the Honda Accord.

Chevy Malibu > Accord and Camry.

Much better looking too.

[Cojafoji]

http://ultimategto.com/1966/66_00239_1.jpg

This is the only thing I'll miss from pontiac. My pop owned one. Fucking sick ass ride.

[rossmum]

crysler will die within about 1-3 months if it doesnt let fiat rape them. ford will probably survive. GM will most likely die within 4 months to 1 year. economy will get worse, riots all over the world, and obama screwed the whole world in the ass with his "stimulus" that just fucked things up even worse.

lulz it probably wont get that bad but id be k if it did
obama fucked the whole world

i know this because i post on forums.

[Maniac]

I recieved this email in september of last year.
Was a pretty good heads up.

Here is a summary of a recorded interview July 16, 2008 with George Green, a former investment banker (Registered Financial Principal with the N.A.S.D.) and a Broker/Dealer, Securities Underwriter, Real Estate Developer, Insurance Broker and Publisher, who was invited to become a member of the 'Power Elite'. However, faced with a moral and ethical dilemma, he turned his back on his former associates and chose to walk an entirely different path in which he has tried to warn the world of the Power Elite's plans for the future.



The entire interview may be found at:
http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/news.htm (http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/news.htm)
or
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7618947388652774139&q=George+Green+on+the+Economy&ei=jimJSIKTCIamrwLRqYW-Aw (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7618947388652774139&q=George+Green+on+the+Economy&ei=jimJSIKTCIamrwLRqYW-Aw)



1. At the beginning of July, the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland, which is owned by the thirteen [Illuminati] Banking Families under Rothschild, stated that it wanted to audit the US Federal Reserve. Bush reluctantly had to agree to this, but with the proviso that the audit would not be conducted until he has left office. However, when the truth inevitably leaks out on 30th September 2008, clearly the Bank of International Settlements will no longer be prepared to accept the US Dollar.



2. With the realization that the Federal Reserve has been pumping two billion US Dollars a day into the economy in a forlorn effort to try to keep the US afloat, the US is now construed as 'the poor kid on the block', the 'bankrupt of the world' and nobody is prepared to lend them anything. Foreign governments have said 'We will no longer take your bonds'.



3. This situation has resulted in worldwide repercussions: for example China, which is the biggest US creditor, has told US importers that they may not pay more then 20% of the total cost of their goods in US Dollars.



4. Also since the beginning of July, Germany has announced that it will no longer accept Euros from eight of their fellow EU members, the two countries with which they are most concerned being Italy and Spain.



5. The Real Estate market is expected to go down by an additional 50% from its value on 16th August. Because of the collapse of the Real Estate market, which is expected to lead to at least a further two million foreclosures within the next 12 months, US Banks are no longer prepared to trust each other, so inter-bank lending has virtually ceased.



6. This has had a knock-on effect on would-be house purchasers. Like the old days, anyone who now wants to get a mortgage has to put 20% down and to satisfy the lender that their job is secure.



7. You may have seen Bush go on television to tell everyone not to worry as the US Government-sponsored Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) will guarantee the safety of their bank deposits. However, the truth is that the FDIC can barely raise 30 cents on the dollar to cover its potential liabilities; and Bank of America and Wells Fargo are in a similar situation.



8. Banks have already started telling their depositors that they cannot withdraw their own cash.



9. It is universally accepted internationally that the US Dollar is going to collapse by the end of September 2008. some foreign banks have already started to refuse to take U.S. deposits and, since the Patriot Act, if you do manage to send money to a foreign bank, they are required to report the fact to the USG, who will make you prove how you obtained it and if you cannot do so, they will automatically label you a 'terrorist' or a 'drug dealer' and confiscate it.



10. The Bank of South America is trying to organize its own currency for use within the South American continent when the US Dollar finally crashes, based on an initial provision of eight billion dollars.



11. As at July 1st, the Japanese stock market was down 12%, the Australian stock market was down 18%, the German stock market was down 22%, the Indian stock market was down 36%; and China's Shanghai Exchange was down 50%.



12. Within the next year, the DOW is expected to fall to between 7500 and 8000.



13. Everyone is now desperately trying to get liquid; and Oil, Gold and Drugs have become the only universally accepted world currencies.



14. The only sensible advice is either to change dollars into other currencies, or buy gold and silver (while you still can, because the US is likely to make it illegal to own gold); and stock up on canned food and ammunition, the price of which is going to go through the roof. Already the major canners have reduced the size of cans by 20% to preserve stock whilst also maximizing their profits.



15. Already 80% of the cost of an apple in a supermarket is due to energy costs; and this proportion is likely to rise. We have already started to see the situation where growers, producers and importers have stopped supplying many basic foodstuffs because the price of oil has meant that the cost of getting it to market is more than they can hope to sell it for. The food shortages that have resulted are likely to become even more acute because the USG is talking of introducing price controls. Who will be prepared to continue to supply the market when they are sustaining increasing losses?



16. The falling value of the dollar has created artificial shortages because other countries can now buy US goods cheaper than they can produce them themselves.



17. Inflation is expected to rise by 35 - 40% by the end of this year in real terms. Gasoline 5 Dollars a Gallon everywhere.



18. Following the collapse of the US Dollar, the Euro is also expected to collapse. In fact, Russia is already negotiating with Germany about a new currency.



19. The Iranian Oil Bourse was set up to trade oil internationally in Euros (see: http://www.energybulletin.net/node/12125 <http://www.energybulletin.net/node/12125> ) but, just when the bourse was ready to go live, the submarine cables were conveniently cut.



20. You can forget about the NAU's Amero. The Amero is off the table - the Canadian Prime Minister said 'We're not going to support a bankrupt country'; and Mexico is so corrupt that nobody knows where they're coming from.



21. In the future, South America will be one of the safest areas on the planet. They have ample commodities and very little debt. Not everywhere is ideal (in some countries you would need to live in a defended compound). Ecuador is close to becoming self sufficient in food terms.



22. Kissinger and the population reduction crew are trying to get WW3 started before September 30th (end of the US Fiscal Year), then Bush can suspend everything. Israel and the US are working out the details to attack Iran to start WW3. The main reason for the use of Depleted Uranium munitions in Iraq is 'to cull the herd'.



23. Of the US population of 300 million, half are over 50 and most of the kids can't read or write. Sport and entertainment are what has been used to keep everyone going. When (rather than if) Bush calls a National Emergency, if you are over the age of 44 only if you have a use which 'they' want will 'they' be prepared to keep you alive. Moreover, what law will we have which says that we even own our own homes?




24. Everybody must downsize into small self-contained and (as far as possible) self-sufficient communities, People will have to forget their 'wants' and to concentrate solely on what they actually need to survive.



25. In short, we are marching towards our self-imprisonment. I'm ready to get out of harm's way. I know high ups who will tell me when it's time to leave.

[rossmum]

Please be joking... :lolugh:

We already have one Dane, we don't need another. Yes, people are being greedy and committing hand-in-the-till on a massive scale, but there's no underlying evil going to emerge later this year or even this decade. People read way too far into this shit, it's a simple case of mass incompetence and personal greed.

[Maniac]

I'm not a conspiracy theory person ( and what Dane said is crazy), im just saying it was a good heads up as to how fucked things were going to get monetarily.

[rossmum]

I never paid close attention to the economy, but with people loaning money to those who couldn't repay it, it was inevitable.

[Nick]

How the fuck was that a "good heads up"? Nothing in that drivel even came true. Where's our WW3? Where was the collapse of the US Dollar in September? Who is no longer taking US currency?

Just wow.

Nick

[TVTyrant]

Except that foreign countries continue to buy American bonds, because the United States basically owns their money. After WWII we dug the majority of the other nations out of debt, and by establishing foreign factories and businesses with the American dollar, basically linked them to us.

[Xetsuei]

http://ultimategto.com/1966/66_00239_1.jpg

This is the only thing I'll miss from pontiac. My pop owned one. Fucking sick ass ride.

And this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/2006-Pontiac-GTO.jpg
The new GTO. Didn't look very good, but it was based on the Holden Monaro/Vauxhall VXR and had a Corvette engine. So it was very fast and handled very well. Not many people bought it though, so it stopped produciton in 2006.

[Maniac]

I didnt pay any attention to Canada's economy, never mind that of anywhere else, i got that email, read it and understood that Americas and Europe's would crash, thats all. The rest is obviously anti Bush drivel.

[SnaFuBAR]

The conspiracy theorists are like the devil, using truth and lies to persuade. It was obvious to anyone not on life support in a vegetative state that the world economy was about to crumble.

[Cojafoji]

And this
The new GTO. Didn't look very good, but it was based on the Holden Monaro/Vauxhall VXR and had a Corvette engine. So it was very fast and handled very well. Not many people bought it though, so it stopped produciton in 2006.
It's so fucking ugly though... Of course people didn't buy it. A car is two things, that must coexist. Design, and power. Without each other, a car is shit.

[Varmint260]

http://ultimategto.com/1966/66_00239_1.jpg

This is the only thing I'll miss from pontiac. My pop owned one. Fucking sick ass ride.

My Dad had a Pontiac GTO as well; 1970 model. Sweet, sweet car, and he made some awesome mods under the hood. Wish he'd have kept it. I never did get too excited about the 2004-2006 GTOs, either. It's not a GTO, it's a Monaro with Pontiac logos and a Corvette engine. Where's the goat in that?

It's a sad thing that all these lines are being shafted, but I haven't seen a lot that I've liked in the cars they've been making. The Pontiac G8 is a pretty decent looking car, I guess... but one decent car in the whole lineup isn't enough for me to shed a tear when it's gone.

[Bodzilla]

It's so fucking ugly though... Of course people didn't buy it. A car is two things, that must coexist. Design, and power. Without each other, a car is shit.
Monaro's fucking owned.

you take that back.
The holden version is better.

[Xetsuei]

The holden version is the exact same.

Ftfy. It's literally the same car with different badges.

[Jean-Luc]

Holden is indeed better, because it's Australian
Fixed for Bod :p

[Bodzilla]

thats it

also they know how to take pictures of it from a decent fucking angle.
http://damox.com/cars/thumbs/Holden/2004_Holden_VZ_Monaro.jpg

a little smooth in some places but this baby looks incredible when it's right before you.

[Timo]

Oh man, yellow monaro's are fucking awesome. I remember when they came out :^D

[Bodzilla]

Oh man, yellow monaro's are fucking awesome. I remember when they came out :^D
you make me so hawt when you talk like that baby.:worship:

[SnaFuBAR]

thats it

also they know how to take pictures of it from a decent fucking angle.
http://damox.com/cars/thumbs/Holden/2004_Holden_VZ_Monaro.jpg


sup industry standard 3/4 front high photo.

[Cojafoji]

thats it

also they know how to take pictures of it from a decent fucking angle.
http://damox.com/cars/thumbs/Holden/2004_Holden_VZ_Monaro.jpg

a little smooth in some places but this baby looks incredible when it's right before you.
Ugly as shit.

[rossmum]

get out sir it is not

[Jean-Luc]

Would look better in a different color, but the car looks good otherwise.

[TVTyrant]

By the way:

http://www.motherproof.com/news-rants/story/chrysler-declares-bankruptcy-fiat-partnership-expected/
Chrysler just declared bankruptcy :(

[Xetsuei]

Many of you don't seem to know what bankruptcy means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy

[TeeKup]

Goddamnit why Fiat?

[LesserOf2Evils]

It's so fucking ugly though... Of course people didn't buy it. A car is two things, that must coexist. Design, and power. Without each other, a car is shit.

Hey now I have a 2006 GTO and the car is fucking awesome. Looks a bit plain but hell I love a sleeper. Cops leave me alone and I can burn just about everything around where I live.

I'm too poor to afford them but there's some sick body kits for it if you're wanting to show off.

[Bodzilla]

eh?

i d g i.

Monaro's are built for yellow or black.
They look so fuckign tough in real life.

Awesome handling, incredible pick up and speed great interior without all the useless fucking gadgets that make up for you being such a shit driver.
It's how cars are supposed to be made.