Pardon Our (CMT's) Ignorance.

[Roostervier]

They'll use an installer if you put it there.

Also, when the fuck did I say I believed Barack Obama was a muslim? Even if you meant that as an example belief, that was still an incredibly stupid one to use.

[blind]

PS i will not be downloading this if its too big. Thats just me, the most important Halo player in the history of the game

[Jean-Luc]

Well you believed Barack Obama was a Muslim, so I don't really care what you "personally believe". The point is, placing a single DLL file that doesn't work on the majority of computers isn't an option we want to follow. You say use an installer, majority of people aren't going to use an installer, and it still doesn't solve the problem of systems that are incompatible with OS.

Way to bring up something completely irrelevant in order to try and improve your credibility. :cool:

Also, explain to me why people wouldn't use an installer.

[p0lar_bear]

Well rather than attack me, why don't you explain to me how Dennis's points aren't valid and worth listening to.


His views are valid, but I'm surprised that he, as a webmaster, is willing to subject himself to more bandwidth rape in exchange for playability.

hth~

[Sel]

Well rather than attack me, why don't you explain to me how Dennis's points aren't valid and worth listening to.

I'm not saying he isn't making points, I'm saying that you're ignoring, and have ignored every argument that wasn't agreeing with your own since this fiasco began.

[Masterz1337]

That actually surprised me a bit too. Then again, he really has given a lot to the community with the hosting he's provided all these years... Without him, Halo CE probably wouldn't have existed as long as it has.

Well, he probably like us values playability over all else. Surprises me more people don't think like that actually.

[ShadowSpartan]

The point is, placing a single DLL file that doesn't work on the majority of computers isn't an option we want to follow.
What? I'd like to know where you are getting this information from.

[blind]

another thing, most people aren't going to want to waste 10gb (?) of space on a fucking halo mod

[Masterz1337]

I'm not saying he isn't making points, I'm saying that you're ignoring, and have ignored every argument that wasn't agreeing with your own since this fiasco began.

Not thinking they are good points doesn't mean I'm ignoring them. I just don't think they are good reasons.

[Masterz1337]

What? I'd like to know where are you getting this information from.

Read Dennis's PM.


another thing, most people aren't going to want to waste 10gb (?) of space on a fucking halo mod

It's going to be 1.5ish when rared.

[Roostervier]

How about unrared? Considering that's the size it's going to take up on your comp when you're playing the mod.

[blind]

Read Dennis's PM.



It's going to be 1.5ish when rared.
I thought you had to unrar shit to play it :rolleyes:
Im not wasting 10 gigs in order to play a halo mod, hth

[ShadowSpartan]

Read Dennis's PM.
I have read his PM, and Dennis only described a single test machine that they use. How are you relating a single test machine not working to the majority of computers not being able to use OS?

[Masterz1337]

3.1 gigs. If you don't have 3.1 gigs free on your harddrive then you obviously have to much of something.

[L0d3x]

I have read his PM, and Dennis only described a single test machine that they use. How are you relating a single test machine not working to the majority of computers not being able to use OS?

Dennis' test machine is what he uses to test everything uploaded to halomaps (I assume), thus if open sauce can't run on it, one could again assume that a significant number of other pc's won't be compatible with it.

Regardless, the argument is that open sauce has not been proven to work with the majority of machines either.

[Jean-Luc]

3.1 gigs. If you don't have 3.1 gigs free on your harddrive then you obviously have to much of something.

1) The entire Halo PC install is ~1.5GB. This mod will make the combined disk space 2x that.
2) Some of us use it for other games, programs, textures, media files, or some of us just don't have large hard drives.

[SnaFuBAR]

Masters tends to blow shit out of proportion in order to weigh towards his view. Denying that the positives of OS are not positives, but only opinions shows his complete disregard for anyone but himself.

[SnaFuBAR]

Regardless, the argument is that open sauce has not been proven to work with the majority of machines either.
regardless, it has not been proven that OS doesn't work with the majority of machines, it's just spin by you and masters. hth

[ShadowSpartan]

Dennis' test machine is what he uses to test everything uploaded to halomaps (I assume), thus if open sauce can't run on it, one could again assume that a significant number of other pc's won't be compatible with it.

Regardless, the argument is that open sauce has not been proven to work with the majority of machines either.
Have you ever considered that he may not be running the latest version? Nowhere in Dennis' PM does he mention that he is using 1.08, so it is very likely that he is unintentionally using an outdated version which then causes OS to crash.

[blind]

3.1 gigs. If you don't have 3.1 gigs free on your harddrive then you obviously have to much of something.
Still, its a 5 year old game. I don't really wanna waste that much space on a game this old lmao. Need more space for newer, better games :hellface:

[jcap]

Oh, really? A gig and a half? I'm willing to bet that with OS, you can have it a gig and a half uncompressed.


You can post but I'm not going to waste my time reading it. Dennis gave us good reasons not to use OS, even though he would host if we chose to use it, even though he doesn't think it's the right way to go.

Stop being such a cry baby bitch and over it. Surely you can get a less retarded team to use OS.
"lalalalalalala not listening lalala"

Again, I said you're a fucking retard because you can't fill the holes.

So, because you are mentally incapacitated, I'll fill them in for you:


He claims that he has had several OS dlls submitted, but they all crashed. Both Kornman and I would absolutely love to know what these are, or even what he was doing to test them. Chances are, they were either shitty coding or Dennis did it wrong (though I doubt the latter is likely). Additionally, why have we never heard about them on Modacity? They surely would have posted it here with a link to an external host. Or if they were having issues, they would have posted about it. But we got neither.
You have to remember that you have Kornman, the same person who GAVE YOU THE TOOLS YOU HAVE NOW, and the one who made Yelo Battery. How horrific was Battery? It completely killed CE with crashes, right? RIGHT?!? It's not a novice coder who is seeing Blam! for the first time. Hell, he pulled the shared cache files off over the weekened.
There is no difference between ANY version of Windows or a 32/64-bit system with a DirectX hook. For one, CE runs 32-bit, so that immediately knocks 64-bit out of the picture. Second, it's a HOOK. It loads into memory at the launch of the game. Memory addresses are the same for every computer because it's determed by the app, so there's no chance for it not to work. Also, GOD FORBID there is another CE update, it won't prevent CE from starting - it would just not load into memory (or it will, but it won't do damage). If you don't believe it, then there's no problem with testing from Windows 98 up through Windows 7 x64.
It's no more difficult to download a DLL than it is to download a map. It would be universally accepted regardless.
There is a slim-to-none chance that there will be any problems. Halo isn't complex. It has a very small job to do, and it does it right.
OS IS what we want. It makes it EVEN EASIER AND SIMPLER to play the game. It IS just a download and play, just like a map.
This isn't an untested and unproven app. This is a solid extension that uses Halo's own ability to open shared cache files. It's taking advantage of something that was previously very very very difficult to do, which zTeam and maybe H2CE had done with their own bitmaps/sounds.map




Also, we already have zTeam using it. They're smart enough to realize its advantages. At least they don't have a shitdick mis"leader".

[STLRamsFan]

Since space won't be a problem for me, just out of curiosity: What computer specs would you recommend for a good experience? Mine runs with XP with 2.25ghz (3.00 intel chip but had to be clocked down because of some problems), 1.00gigs ram, and ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 megs.

Bare in mind, this is a 5 year computer that I've had since I joined GBX. ;)

[L0d3x]

Have you ever considered that he may not be running the latest version? Nowhere in Dennis' PM does he mention that he is using 1.08, so it is very likely that he is unintentionally using an outdated version which then causes OS to crash.

I had not considered that yet.

[blind]

I think a poll should be posted and people should vote on whether or not they want OS

[Jean-Luc]

I think a poll should be posted and people should vote on whether or not they want OS
Do you really think that would make a difference? Masterz doesn't care.

[Rob Oplawar]

good lord, this is a more heated debate than abortion and gay marriage combined

[blind]

Do you really think that would make a difference? Masterz doesn't care.
Well I think it would be hilarious to see what arguments he would come up with when theres legit proof that people would rather have OS, lol.

[L0d3x]

We're not using it.
We as a team have made our decision on this a while ago, this is the end...the end my true friend (yes I don't know the lyrics).
.

No CMT members post below this line!:
-------------------------------------------------------

[SnaFuBAR]

I'm still waiting on a response to this



He claims that he has had several OS dlls submitted, but they all crashed. Both Kornman and I would absolutely love to know what these are, or even what he was doing to test them. Chances are, they were either shitty coding or Dennis did it wrong (though I doubt the latter is likely).
You have to remember that you have Kornman, the same person who GAVE YOU THE TOOLS YOU HAVE NOW, and the one who made Yelo Battery. How horrific was Battery? It completely killed CE with crashes, right? RIGHT?!? It's not a novice coder who is seeing Blam! for the first time. Hell, he pulled the shared cache files off over the weekened.
There is no difference between ANY version of Windows or a 32/64-bit system with a DirectX hook. For one, CE runs 32-bit, so that immediately knocks 64-bit out of the picture. Second, it's a HOOK. It loads into memory at the launch of the game. Memory addresses are the same for every computer because it's determed by the app, so there's no chance for it not to work. Also, GOD FORBID there is another CE update, it won't prevent CE from starting - it would just not load into memory (or it will, but it won't do damage). If you don't believe it, then there's no problem with testing from Windows 98 up through Windows 7 x64.
It's no more difficult to download a DLL than it is to download a map. It would be universally accepted regardless.
There is a slim-to-none chance that there will be any problems. Halo isn't complex. It has a very small job to do, and it does it right.
OS IS what we want. It makes it EVEN EASIER AND SIMPLER to play the game. It IS just a download and play, just like a map.
This isn't an untested and unproven app. This is a solid extension that uses Halo's own ability to open shared cache files. It's taking advantage of something that was previously very very very difficult to do, which zTeam and maybe H2CE had done with their own bitmaps/sounds.map

[blind]

IN THE REALS, its their mod and they should do what they want with it IMO TBH

[Sabre]

good lord, this is a more heated debate than abortion and gay marriage combined

Tru Dat Bre.

[Roostervier]

oh no, masters is gone :(

better to run than lose, heh

[Sabre]

oh no, masters is gone :(

better to run than lose, heh

He loses either way :lmao:

[jcap]

We're not using it.
We as a team have made our decision on this a while ago, this is the end...the end my true friend (yes I don't know the lyrics).
.

Actually, I recall CMT agreeing that you would use OS if it worked as expected. Now where was that?


I did come to a middle ground, I said we'd use it and if it works as expected we'll use it. You guys didn't like that idea.

Oh right, there it is!




No CMT members post below this line!:
-------------------------------------------------------
Trying to keep conflicting opinions from seeping out? Or just running out of ways to embarrass yourselves?


No :downs: below this line!:
-------------------------------------------------------

[Joshflighter]

Uh, been reading this thread... Sounds like someone really loves there mod.

Tbh, I think that Internet drama shouldn't exist. :(
I mean.. we don't even know each other in real life! (most of us, lmao)
And, we don't even own there mod, its there's to mess around with. Hth.

[Arteen]

Actually, I recall CMT agreeing that you would use OS if it worked as expected. Now where was that?

Oh right, there it is!
I do recall being pushed (blackmailed?) into using OS even though we didn't need it. Here's an idea: we'll release an OS version and a non-OS version. The only way this could possibly piss you off is if you :mad::mad::mad:omghate:mad::mad::mad::mad:!!!!!!!1 1! pirates and wanted the CMT maps to screw them over due to OS being 1.08 only.

[.Wolf™]

Uh, been reading this thread... Sounds like someone really loves there mod.

Tbh, I think that Internet drama shouldn't exist. :(
I mean.. we don't even know each other in real life! (most of us, lmao)
And, we don't even own there mod, its there's to mess around with. Hth.

No one does own the mod for that matter. Most content is alredy ingame which means microsoft owns it now..

[sdavis117]

Here's an idea: we'll release an OS version and a non-OS version.

This is a respectable compromise. I say you take it you two (Jcap and Masterz). This whole thread has turned into a shit flinging spree from both sides, it's just painful to watch.

How about you guys just agree to disagree, and both have your ways?

[Rhydgaled]

He claims that he has had several OS dlls submitted, but they all crashed. Both Kornman and I would absolutely love to know what these are, or even what he was doing to test them. Chances are, they were either shitty coding or Dennis did it wrong (though I doubt the latter is likely). Additionally, why have we never heard about them on Modacity? They surely would have posted it here with a link to an external host. Or if they were having issues, they would have posted about it. But we got neither.
I attempted to upload open sauce to halomaps, which was just the default code with the statistics section commented out, and it was working fine for me, of course I haven't actually played against anyone with it, only ai, but I don't think Dennis actually tests maps beyond starting the game, starting the map and walking around for a bit. Also modacity was informed that I intended to upload it to halomaps (in the open sauce "seven ate nine" thread), just look through my posts, I haven't made that many yet.


This isn't an untested and unproven app. This is a solid extension that uses Halo's own ability to open shared cache files. Actually to my admittedly limited knowledge there hasn't been that much testing, but I've been using Kornman's Kornman 00 app (scince it can edit UI widget tags) almost without fault for some time, so I feel there would be nothing wrong with open sauce. As I already said the sauce itself seems to work too (until I tried to open Sapien with the .dll in place, Sapien didn't like that)(I wanted to try and script a map using the gravity function/command).



3.1 gigs. If you don't have 3.1 gigs free on your harddrive then you obviously have to much of something.
My C drive on my desktop has less free space than that, luckily I still have a large amount of space on the secondary drive though. Video editing is a hobby of mine, and there's alot of un-compressed .avi files on both drives for my various film projects.


Here's an idea: we'll release an OS version and a non-OS version.
That is a good idea in my opinon. Finish the campaign then release it as it is and make another version with as much as possible bundled into shared files, which logiclly would take up less precious disk space. Also you might be able add the Delta Halo UI theme back into the open-sauced, shared map version, especially if you can put more than just bitmaps and sounds into the shared maps (although the ui_widget_definition tags probablly don't take up that much space anyway).

[jcap]

Of course you can release two versions, but you originally said you weren't going to because it's just stupid to have duplicate releases. What would aggravate me is if you ignore the OS version and praise the pirate one as the "only" one.

I really do think you should make the first 2-4 levels available as "demo" levels, though. Then anyone who has pirated the game knows what they are missing, and they can get the full one. They'll still get to experience it, and they'll notice your work, but just not fully unless they buy it the full retail version of Halo.

This really is as stupid of a decision as it would be for a developer to make their game using DirectX 8 so they can support Windows 95 instead of using DirectX 9, 10, or 11.

It would be smartest to have one version and to do it right.

[Kornman00]

I'm currious who was giving Dennis these "multiple dlls" or if he was trying to do these for server builds instead of client (which at the time weren't tested). I run Vista with the latest 1.08 patch and have no problems.
Why wouldn't Dennis bring up these issues of stability on his "test" machine so that I could help troubleshoot? He just kept quiet, I never *heard* anything about this until now.

I only have 30gb for my vista partition on my MacBook. I used the beta version of bootcamp and have had problems with trying to expand my partition size. While I have an external drive which I install most everything to, HCE is on my C drive. I only have 2gb-ish of space left. This "10gb issue" affects me too.

[Sabre]

Of course you can release two versions, but you originally said you weren't going to because it's just stupid to have duplicate releases. What would aggravate me is if you ignore the OS version and praise the pirate one as the "only" one.

I really do think you should make the first 2-4 levels available as "demo" levels, though. Then anyone who has pirated the game knows what they are missing, and they can get the full one. They'll still get to experience it, and they'll notice your work, but just not fully unless they buy it.

This really is as stupid of a decision as it would be for a developer to make their game using DirectX 8 so they can support Windows 95 instead of using DirectX 9, 10, or 11.

It would be smartest to have one version and to do it right.

F- NO :gonk:

[jcap]

*Unless they buy the game.

[CodeBrain]

I'm currious who was giving Dennis these "multiple dlls" or if he was trying to do these for server builds instead of client (which at the time weren't tested). I run Vista with the latest 1.08 patch and have no problems.
Why wouldn't Dennis bring up these issues of stability on his "test" machine so that I could help troubleshoot? He just kept quiet, I never heard anything about this until now.

I only have 30gb for my vista partition on my MacBook. I used the beta version of bootcamp and have had problems with trying to expand my partition size. While I have an external drive which I install most everything to, HCE is on my C drive. I only have 2gb-ish of space left. This "10gb issue" affects me too.

Korn accidently the word heard? D:

[=sw=warlord]

This thread is just reminding me of http://www.halo3forum.com/customavatars/avatar19377_3.gif
Seriously since when has modacity had such a cluster of bitchers who are bitching about the same subject in more than 5 ways?
I thought this thread was locked to try and get away from everyone sliding bad after the massive shit fight last time... i guess everyone missed the banana peel and fell over.

[Malloy]

LOL no offense but CMT bores me, love Teh Lags and Dano's input though.

This whole issue is feckin lame... grow up and stop caring so much about a re-creation single player mod. So yah let Masterz and his team decide to do whatever they want (respectively not fuckin Kornman around) and hopefully enable them to create what they were hoping to create from the beginning. This whole issue seems to be halting progress... so its unhealthy.

[il Duce Primo]

I think it's really immature that there are administrators that are attacking members of their forum and abusing their power to do so.

[AAA]

I think it's really immature that there are administrators that are attacking members of their forum and abusing their power to do so.

The irony of such a priviledge....

i'm going to voice my opinion on this even though some of you may not give a shit, I noticed hardly any of you actually acknowledge me, but here I am:

After reading through this painful, idiotic argument about how shit should go down, I've come to the conclusion that CMT has chosen the direction as to how they feel they should approach the release and finishings of the mod appropriately. To some (most?) of you who may not like the tiny fact that you don't approve of their actions, who are YOU to say they can't? You may not realize it, but most of the ideas and presentations to help build this mod have come from this community (Yeah, that's right, Pat yourself on the back. You deserve it), but that still give you no right to boast or think that your opinion matters most towards things (ex. SPv2). If you're asking "Well, Why not?" Then you need to snap out of your egotistical world and realize that you weren't the one enjoying (The reason I don't say any painful word like "slaving" is because, well, why would they slave over something they've worked so much on? If at all, they're almost finished because they enjoy what they're doing.) and staying up full nights to try and help build it with higher potential than what really COULD have been (Kudos to those who have).

I'm not trying to break anyone down, and even though I may not have added a lot to this insight. I want you to know, for the sake of being a human, that pointing fingers, guilting, or even arguing against an opinion and turning it into something personal isn't the way to go if you don't want to slow down progress in any situation. Treat others the way you want to be treated and Respect one another.

Yeah, you read correctly, I threw in a golden moral.
Don't think you knew all of this before you read it because by how the situation seems, that type of mindset is what creates the drama.

I'm done for now.

Go ahead, take it in. It's good for you.

[musicman888]

Edit: ^^ Good post AAA and as they say "What he said......"

To jcap: I noticed that you mention Halo runs in 32-bit and that cuts 64-bit systems out of the picture. (Correct me if I am wrong on that but it was in one of your bullet points a couple pages back.) I just wanted to say that a friend of mine runs a 64-bit version of Vista and Halo PC and Halo CE run just fine on it. I do not know however if OS will work on it or not or if a .dll created by OS will work or not it so I can't say much for that there. (Just tell me if I read your bullet point wrong and if this post was un-needed on that point above.)

On the note of OS though...

Dennis has made valid points as have many of you who wish Masterz would use OS. My input is that if Masterz and the CMT team do not wish to use OS then that should be respected hopefully by most if not all of you. Yes I know however that there will be "critics" and will press to ochange their minds. But they as a team have decided that they will not use OS for their mod. But here is the catch 22, many features and neccessities that come from using OS will not be in the mod and that is their lose. But their win is that, as a team, they decided to not use OS for their reasons, whether they be good or bad.

I personally have waited for this mod a long time and will download/play it whether or not is uses OS, no matter how big it is. I have space on my HDD and have a secondary with a shitload of space where I keep things stored. I do not play many games on the PC however so I can't speak for those other people who play many games.

What I don't understand is why this argument is still going on about them using OS......

--musicman888

Edit 2: Also I personally haven't used OS yet because I don't map/mod nor have needed to download it to use yet.....

[FRain]

I think it's really immature that there are administrators that are attacking members of their forum and abusing their power to do so.

What power are they abusing? Are you honestly making half-assed comments like that? We're not attacking anyone. The administrators are not abusing their power.

[Arteen]

We're not attacking anyone.
We made a decision on OS, and jcap made this thread to harass us into changing our decision. I think that counts.

[Champ]

What power are they abusing? Are you honestly making half-assed comments like that? We're not attacking anyone. The administrators are not abusing their power.
I do not believe his post was directed anywhere near you so I'm not sure why you're butting in or even using the word "we". I actually don't know why most of you are throwing your two cents in when it really only has to do with CMT, jcap, kornman, and maybe a few others. I don't even see why a thread for this is necessary. :fail:

[ShadowSpartan]

To jcap: I noticed that you mention Halo runs in 32-bit and that cuts 64-bit systems out of the picture. (Correct me if I am wrong on that but it was in one of your bullet points a couple pages back.) I just wanted to say that a friend of mine runs a 64-bit version of Vista and Halo PC and Halo CE run just fine on it. I do not know however if OS will work on it or not or if a .dll created by OS will work or not it so I can't say much for that there. (Just tell me if I read your bullet point wrong and if this post was un-needed on that point above.)
Open Sauce does work on a 64-bit Operating System, as evidenced by this thread (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16052).

[blind]

I do not believe his post was directed anywhere near you so I'm not sure why you're butting in or even using the word "we". I actually don't know why most of you are throwing your two cents in when it really only has to do with CMT, jcap, kornman, and maybe a few others. I don't even see why a thread for this is necessary. :fail:
cuz its teh community that needs to give input!!1

[musicman888]

Open Sauce does work on a 64-bit Operating System, as evidenced by this thread (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16052).

I just saw that thread lolz, but thanks ShadowSpartan.

[Roostervier]

We made a decision on OS, and jcap made this thread to harass us into changing our decision. I think that counts.
oh no. theyre being harassed guys, we better stop


Seriously, he's only harassing you to make a good decision instead of a shitty one. It's actually sort of like what someone does when they are a good parent. I bet the child feels harassed, but no one gives a rat's ass because the parents are keeping the kid from hurting himself.

[Champ]

cuz its teh community that needs to give input!!1
oooooh right forgot that people can, you know, not download this mod instead of continuing to not bitching.

ps: i use bold, italicize, and strikes to make myself look cool and my points more valid. :cool:

Btw, you're a very cool guy, flyingrooster. How can I be more like you?

[AAA]

I do not believe his post was directed anywhere near you so I'm not sure why you're butting in or even using the word "we". I actually don't know why most of you are throwing your two cents in when it really only has to do with CMT, jcap, kornman, and maybe a few others. I don't even see why a thread for this is necessary. :fail:

If you believe that, then why did you feel the need to post that type of input? You're helping no one.

[Champ]

If you believe that, then why did you feel the need to post that type of input? You're helping no one.
Because this thread has 7 pages of wah-wah posts. And I'm helping myself, so in your face. :woot:

[Arteen]

oh no. theyre being harassed guys, we better stop
Don't be a jackass.


Seriously, he's only harassing you to make a good decision instead of a shitty one. It's actually sort of like what someone does when they are a good parent. I bet the child feels harassed, but no one gives a rat's ass because the parents are keeping the kid from hurting himself.
All OS will give us is a fancy HUD we don't really need, two cutscenes we don't want back in regardless, and smaller filesizes. The downsides are interdependent files that make running the game more complex than it needs to be. In addition, we have a few instances of OS crashing the game, and the game being incompatible with Xfire. OS isn't going to help us. If filesize/bandwidth is a significant issue, we can release an OS version for those people, and everyone's happy.

[jcap]

As of right now there are no outstanding issues of OS crashing the game.

[Arteen]

Why don't you consider the Xfire issue to be "outstanding"?

[jcap]

Yeah right. It doesn't make it anymore complex other than copying two more files into your maps folder. Don't sensationalize it.

The Xfire thing is probably something that can be resolved. It's actually a problem with them - not OS. The hooks are a part of DirectX. If they interfere with that, then that's an issue with them. They should make sure their app is compatible with any configuration of any hooks anyone might have. What if OS came before Xfire's in-game overlay? Again, I hope it can be resolved. Personally, I know I would hate it if I had to close an app every time I wanted to play the game, especially if I want to broadcast or record.

What I mainly meant about no outstanding issues is that we know the causes of them. We know if you have Xfire open, it will conflict with OS. We know that the missing dll can be solved by downloading it. I think a crash caused by the instability of OS is much more significant, especially if there's no sign what is the cause of it.

[FRain]

Why don't you consider the Xfire issue to be "outstanding"?
Because we've known about this issue for a long time.

[Napalm]

IMO I think it would be a great addition, but its totally up to CMT if they want to include it. If kornman gets around to fixing the xfire and 64 bit vista compatibility issues, (which I'm sure he can/will..) then I see no reason why it wouldn't be included/used/whatever.

It's up to cmt what they want to do with thier mawd.

[Amit]

Do that many people really have a use for broadcasting in X-Fire? I know it's useful for Masters to give us exclusive sneak previews, but really, we don't gain much from those. Still pictures are good enough for many others and I, for the time being.

Just end the story with making both. That is what Arteen said, yet still everyone and their mom is still posting. Jcap, man, both versions...what's the problem? Loosen up a bit now.

HOWEVER. And that's a BIG however. I must see Masters say this himself before I'll believe it.

[KiLLa]

Um...since when was addressing a difference opinion harassing again?
I don't agree with either side..but we're all entitled to our own opinions, called free will..

[Arteen]

Yeah right. It doesn't make it anymore complex other than copying two more files into your maps folder. Don't sensationalize it.
Each map file depends on the two shared map files and the two dlls. I think we can safely assume that a significant portion of the CE userbase downloads only from HaloMaps. That's five sequential downloads just to play the first level, as opposed to one, and it's more intimidating to the novice user than just putting a single file in a folder. Dennis isn't the only webmaster I know who has made similar comments on how easy it is for the average user to be put off.


Um...since when was addressing a difference opinion harassing again?
harass


to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.

Considering how jcap has refused to let this issue go, posted a whole new thread because he didn't like CMT's decision, and has taken many opportunities to insult members of the team, I'd say it's fair to call that harassment. Most everyone else has been perfectly fine, and I have no issue with them regardless of their stance on OS.

[KiLLa]

so if I disagree with you more than once on the same subject it's harassment?
so if I make statements about me being unhappy with obama more than twice, I'm harassing the president?
Didn't know that..

[p0lar_bear]

Each map file depends on the two shared map files and the two dlls. I think we can safely assume that a significant portion of the CE userbase downloads only from HaloMaps. That's five sequential downloads just to play the first level, as opposed to one, and it's more intimidating to the novice user than just putting a single file in a folder.

And just how many people are going to be downloading just one level?

Simple: You distribute the CMT sounds, bitmaps, and loc map files and the DLLs into one 7zip, and release it as Halo CMT, mapfiles not included. Then you have each map up for download with a readme stating that the maps will not run without Halo CMT.

Two concurrent downloads for one level. Oh dear god I don't think my pea brain can handle it. :saddowns:

Plus, this would lay out a framework for future CMT multiplayer releases. Would prefer to download a 20-30MB map instead of a 70+ MB one.

[Arteen]

so if I disagree with you more than once on the same subject it's harassment?
so if I make statements about me being unhappy with obama more than twice, I'm harassing the president?
Didn't know that..
That's not the situation, though. People have said many times in the threads that CMT should/shouldn't use OS. There's nothing wrong with that. jcap in particular has repeatedly insulted and patronized members of the team, including making a whole new thread to argue with us.



Two sequential downloads for one level. Oh dear god I don't think my pea brain can handle it. :saddowns:
FTFY. We're talking HaloMaps here.

Everyone who goes to this forum will be able to handle it just fine. You're just very optimistic that the novice user will be competent enough and not too intimidated by four extra files when every other map (SP or MP) just requires the single .map file, and that the average user with a passing interest will be interested enough to bother downloading.

You assume that people really want to download this. Sure, some do, but in order to get all those people who might download, the process needs to be easy.

Do people remember the days before YouTube? I used to be a regular at HighImpactHalo. As the webmaster Ducain stated, the more steps it takes a user to view your video, the less people will bother. If the video is on some hosting service and isn't a direct download but requires the user to wait, you will lose viewers. If the file is archived, you will lose viewers. Even with YouTube, someone's more likely to watch an embedded video than follow a link. Dennis also showed similar concerns with OS.

That's basically our situation; we want to attract anyone we can to our mod, so we want the fewest steps possible to play the mod. If it requires extra work, we will lose potential players. If it sounds like it will require extra work, then we will lose potential players.

EDIT:

And just how many people are going to be downloading just one level?
Downloads on HaloMaps:
a10 - 45,406
a30 - 27,698
a50 - 23,283
b30 - 24,001
b40 - 23,237
c10 - 16,953
c20 - 14,730
c40 - 16,770
d20 - 13,719
d40 - 19,387

Many.

[StankBacon]

we want to attract anyone we can to our mod, so we want the fewest steps possible to play the mod. If it requires extra work, we will lose potential players. If it sounds like it will require extra work, then we will lose potential players.



why is that a problem? i really don't understand your guys argument that you want every download possible.. how will that benefit you in any way other than ego boosting as your download counter rises.

i also don't understand why you think everyone that is going to download your mod is a brainless fuck who cant figure out how to extract a few files... even tho that's what they do with the maps themselves.

[TVTyrant]

why is that a problem? i really don't understand your guys argument that you want every download possible.. how will that benefit you in any way other than ego boosting as your download counter rises.

i also don't understand why you think everyone that is going to download your mod is a brainless fuck who cant figure out how to extract a few files... even tho that's what they do with the maps themselves.
I think the issue is bigger than ego. Remember a few months ago when Masterz got all pissed off and announced it wouldnt see release, mostly because everyone was being bitches? Well, thats what their afraid of, is that it will soil the teams name. And beyond that, individual members who could potentially lose a place in this community. Of course, I dont think that would happen at all, but I think thats there point

[jngrow]

Downloads on HaloMaps:
a10 - 45,406
a30 - 27,698
a50 - 23,283
b30 - 24,001
b40 - 23,237
c10 - 16,953
c20 - 14,730
c40 - 16,770
d20 - 13,719
d40 - 19,387

Many.

Wait, how do you know those individuals only downloaded the said map and none others? Unless I misunderstood your point, if it's just about downloading preferences and not "taste".

[Amit]

T
Everyone who goes to this forum will be able to handle it just fine. You're just very optimistic that the novice user will be competent enough and not too intimidated by four extra files when every other map (SP or MP) just requires the single .map file, and that the average user with a passing interest will be interested enough to bother downloading.

You assume that people really want to download this. Sure, some do, but in order to get all those people who might download, the process needs to be easy.

Do people remember the days before YouTube? I used to be a regular at HighImpactHalo. As the webmaster Ducain stated, the more steps it takes a user to view your video, the less people will bother. If the video is on some hosting service and isn't a direct download but requires the user to wait, you will lose viewers. If the file is archived, you will lose viewers. Even with YouTube, someone's more likely to watch an embedded video than follow a link. Dennis also showed similar concerns with OS.

That's basically our situation; we want to attract anyone we can to our mod, so we want the fewest steps possible to play the mod. If it requires extra work, we will lose potential players. If it sounds like it will require extra work, then we will lose potential players.


This situation is different from the two ways you stated. Are people really too "afraid" to copy two extra files to the exact same folder that the map is supposed to go in? (Run-on sentence ftw) As if something would cause your computer to stop working entirely. Most people who are capable of downloading the map to begin with will have no trouble solving this. They aren't retards. Give full instructions that are detailed but not technical and they will still be successful in getting the files to go in the correct locations. Also, this isn't like a video where you have to go through multiple links or mirrors. Even if it were, people will still be like holy shit awesome to download it since they probably would have browsed the SP maps section, seen SPV1, downloaded it, jizzed in their pants, will check for more CMT shit, and eventually find out about SPV2. With distributing maps on HaloMaps, you cut out the bullshit. This isn't like the OS files you have to download will be scattered across the internet, it should be included with every map archive.

Losing potential players shouldn't be a problem since the process is so insanely easy, there is no way to fuck it up. The trick is to not make it sound like extra work or like it's easy pie, either. That's what intimidates them. Just say, "Put all files from the archive in the Maps folder and you're done!" That's all you need to do. Assuming the map is in an archive, you'd have to be pretty stupid to know how and where to extract the map file but not know how to extract another file to the same folder. No extra effort is required. Period.



I think the issue is bigger than ego. Remember a few months ago when Masterz got all pissed off and announced it wouldnt see release, mostly because everyone was being bitches? Well, thats what their afraid of, is that it will soil the teams name. And beyond that, individual members who could potentially lose a place in this community. Of course, I dont think that would happen at all, but I think thats there point

Have you seen the state of this community? It's a mess! I'm not sure how you can lose your place if you're a half-decent person and respect the rules and the people. Don't make me laugh. It'll "soil" the team's name just because some half-wits couldn't place a few extra files in the same folder as the maps? That's not ignorance, that's just downright laziness.

[StankBacon]

him being stubborn and making bad/uneducated decisions is whats soiling the teams name.


and as for p0lar, what he said about laying the framework for future cmt maps, thats a excellent idea and i think could work extremely well.

@ arteen saying were talking about halomaps, you'd only have to download "halo cmt" once.

[FRain]

If you're saying the average user can't comprehend downloading 1 big mapfile instead of 10, then I think you need to rework your logic.

Also, what the fuck ever happened to the idea of an installer, it seems Masterz has gone dumbfounded again and dropped that idea, too. Jesus christ, it's like we're trying to tell an 8 year old how not looking both ways is dangerous.

[il Duce Primo]

why is that a problem? i really don't understand your guys argument that you want every download possible.. how will that benefit you in any way other than ego boosting as your download counter rises.

i also don't understand why you think everyone that is going to download your mod is a brainless fuck who cant figure out how to extract a few files... even tho that's what they do with the maps themselves.
I enjoy making content that I know will be enjoyed by others. It would not be as exciting to make this mod if I knew there wasn't going to be others playing. So what if there's a little greed? We made the mod I think we deserve it. Don't try making us look like assholes because we won't make the mod better for a few people on this site.

[StankBacon]

why not make the mod better for everyone?

[BobtheGreatII]

I miss CMT threads with more pictures and less fighting. :nsmug:

[Ifafudafi]

I miss CMT threads with more pictures and less fighting. :nsmug:

Don't know where you came from brah but I thought that CMT threads were all about fighting :haw:

Here's an idea: MAKE BOTH. Integrate OS so that 1.08 users can take advantage of it, but leave another cut version for those who aren't so up-to-date. Takes a little longer, but both sides get what they want.

[TVTyrant]

Have you seen the state of this community? It's a mess! I'm not sure how you can lose your place if you're a half-decent person and respect the rules and the people. Don't make me laugh. It'll "soil" the team's name just because some half-wits couldn't place a few extra files in the same folder as the maps? That's not ignorance, that's just downright laziness.
L2Ninja bra. I dont think, and I mostly agree with you. But Im saying maybe they feel that way. And Ifafudafi, I think thats what they're doing.

[Kornman00]

Each map file depends on the two shared map files and the two dlls. I think we can safely assume that a significant portion of the CE userbase downloads only from HaloMaps. That's five sequential downloads just to play the first level, as opposed to one, and it's more intimidating to the novice user than just putting a single file in a folder. Dennis isn't the only webmaster I know who has made similar comments on how easy it is for the average user to be put off.

Considering how jcap has refused to let this issue go, posted a whole new thread because he didn't like CMT's decision, and has taken many opportunities to insult members of the team, I'd say it's fair to call that harassment. Most everyone else has been perfectly fine, and I have no issue with them regardless of their stance on OS.
However, jcap would be more willing to put up hosting for the next CMT iteration if you guys used shared data files to store global sounds\bitmaps, so users wouldn't just be relying on HM and thus only on download at a time.

Jcap didn't let it go because of how Masters did a 360 on what he originally said.

I kinda don't like how he retracted his statement about using it, but it seemed to happen after I said I wouldn't upgrade the vehicle limit, but I gave a very real reason for not doing so, which is because of the object memory usage. If you guys didn't want to have crates which used physics, you probably wouldn't be having vehicle limit problems.

I do this stuff because its fun and I learn a few things and the tools will help people. I like to help people via this way, and I don't like to see a wasted opportunity but its not like I'm holding a gun to your head, I just wanted to see more people get on line with using 1.08 so the MP (my userbase of which I would like to see as many users in) community will thrive more.

[FireScythe]

It sounds like all this comes down to is people not having everything they need to play the mod whether it be 1.08, the right OS build or some missing dll, and to me with a mod this size it would be benificial to have a seperate installation purely for SPV2.

Now, I have no idea if any of this is possible and its probably all wishful thinking but having a seperate installation modded for CMT's needs would pretty much solve all the problems.

Everyone would have the same version of CE, you can include the dll for OS as well as OS itself and the people still on 1.04 can keep their outdated version for multiplayer.

Plus, doing it this way means that a Direct2U type update system can be used so that should bugs be found in OS or the game, they can be updated. As well as allowing future expansion with new OS features, and new content should CMT continue to make stuff after release.

Although this would'nt bring 1.04 players to 1.08 multiplayer, it was never meant to, and i'm sure there will be other ways to do that.

Thats my 1.2524 pence anyway. :)

[MetKiller Joe]

I feel like this will reach the same fate as Prometheus. Your fanbase is the community; I'd make it simple and just use a version everybody here would agree to. You can set up server passwords if you are worried about pirates.

[Arteen]

However, jcap would be more willing to put up hosting for the next CMT iteration if you guys used shared data files to store global sounds\bitmaps, so users wouldn't just be relying on HM and thus only on download at a time.
My issue with that is that CE is centered around HaloMaps. That's where nearly every user gets their maps. That includes the novice users and the average users who aren't as passionate or interested in this as we are. They're the ones who don't follow forums or YouTube or Moddb. Like Dennis said, it needs to be easy to play the maps, or we'll lose those people.

However, I don't have a problem with an OS version alongside the regular release. We can upload the regular release to HaloMaps, but in our release threads, we can also include OS versions for those who consider bandwidth or hard drive space to be an issue. That way, everyone's happy.


Jcap didn't let it go because of how Masters did a 360 on what he originally said.
The tl;dr version of my response is we didn't want to agree to use OS because we weren't sure we even needed it, but we felt too pressured to make a decision too soon. Sorry for the trouble.


Your fanbase is the community; I'd make it simple and just use a version everybody here would agree to.
Our audience is much more than these forums.

-----------------------------------------------

CMT has had a few concerns about using OS. Over time, some concerns have been addressed, some have become irrelevant, and some new concerns have surfaced. This is basically where everything stands right now.

OS will give us


Smaller file sizes
Delta UI

We still have these issues with OS


Maps depend on two shared maps and two dlls. As Dennis stated, that will put off potential players.
OS has not been extensively tested, and jcap's thread has shown a few cases of OS crashing the game.
OS is incompatible with Xfire and other apps (it seems like bloom and version changer so far).
We don't need it.

Anything significant I'm missing?

[PenGuin1362]

I don't see why an install app won't solve the issue of people not knowing where to put things >_>

[Kornman00]

The tl;dr version of my response is we didn't want to agree to use OS because we weren't sure we even needed it, but we felt too pressured to make a decision too soon. Sorry for the trouble.

-----------------------------------------------

CMT has had a few concerns about using OS. Over time, some concerns have been addressed, some have become irrelevant, and some new concerns have surfaced. This is basically where everything stands right now.

OS will give us


Smaller file sizes
Delta UI

We still have these issues with OS


Maps depend on two shared maps and two dlls. As Dennis stated, that will put off potential players.
OS has not been extensively tested, and jcap's thread has shown a few cases of OS crashing the game.
OS is incompatible with Xfire and other apps (it seems like bloom and version changer so far).
We don't need it.

Anything significant I'm missing?
Well, I hope I didn't come off as wanting an answer right-then-right-now-gogogogogogo-hurry up. After all it takes me time to actually write up the code. It's no trouble at all, its something that really should have been made anyway.

I believe that "second" dll problem (ie, dx3d9_##.dll or w/e) can easily be fixed, but its a fixe that has to be done after the Yelo dll is compiled (either way, the end user doesn't see it). You should note that those two shared data files are just based on the stock data files. Thus any original maps which are built from stock will still continue to run.
The above has the potential to put off players, but you're wanting to do a D2U system so I don't see how this is a factor since it will be installing the stuff for them :confused2:

If I knew (and if anyone knows, with actual detail, please make yourself heard) how the Xfire DX hooks are done then I can possibly change the Yelo's DX wrapper code to not be affected. However, the game still checks itself for exe modifications last I checked, so I won't be modifying the game code to load a new dll. The things Yelo does now require that it is loaded before a certain few systems are initialized.

I'm not exactly sure why it would interfear with the "version changer". IIRC, I thought VC was for 1.07, so people could continue to use old hacks? I hope people aren't thinking they can just use VC to make OS load...

[jcap]

Also, to address that issue of it "breaking" bloom, that's because it overwrites that file. It, just like OS, is a hook. However, there are plans to allow for OS to load multiple hooks (as long as they don't conflict) to allow for different mods such as that.

And it's not incompatible with version changer. Don't make that up. It's not even legal anyway.

[Kornman00]

Turns out jcap had Shadow compiled a new d3dx9 dll, which he didn't realize he was building using a debug config. When building with a release config, that _##.dll ordeal doesn't factor in. I thought jcap was using the one from my original OS thread post.

So, back to only one dll again :p

[Arteen]

I forgot to add "doesn't work on anything but 1.08" to the bullet points. I'll clarify the issues.

OS will give us


Smaller file sizes.
Delta UI.
1.08 only.

We still have these issues with OS


Maps depend on two shared maps and and a dll. As Dennis stated, that will put off potential players.
OS has not been extensively tested, and jcap's thread has shown a few cases of OS crashing the game.
OS is incompatible with Xfire and other OS apps (e.g. bloom) unless extra modifications to OS are made.
1.08 only.
We don't need it.

Why is OS 1.08 only anyway?


And it's not incompatible with version changer.
Sorry, I saw "Version Changer" next to "Failure" a few times in the other thread and didn't notice that they got resolved.


Well, I hope I didn't come off as wanting an answer right-then-right-now-gogogogogogo-hurry up. After all it takes me time to actually write up the code. It's no trouble at all, its something that really should have been made anyway.
I wanted to just say "we don't know if we need it so we'll decide on it later" but everyone else felt pressured.

[Roostervier]

Didn't korn say that OS will work with 1.00 too?

[sdavis117]

I have one question for you CMT.

Why the fuck do you care about whether or not a ton of people can play your mod?


Just wondering.

[Heathen]

I enjoy making content that I know will be enjoyed by others.
Wouldn't you rather enjoy making said content to the best of your abilities by using all the available resources?

And Arteen, I understand your points, but when you say you don't need it, does that mean that it was CMT's intention to have to cut a lot of content?

[Dwood]

Didn't korn say that OS will work with 1.00 too?

Does it matter? tbqh CMT shouldn't care about anything but 1.08. Other than that it's illegal is it not?

[StankBacon]

i still don't understand why you guys are using/care about outdated versions, other than once again getting every possible download for your e-peen.

also, xfire is incompatible with the bloom mod, the camo fix and anything else that hooks into d3d, not just OS.

[Heathen]

Does it matter? tbqh CMT shouldn't care about anything but 1.08. Other than that it's illegal is it not?
No, its not illegal I don't think, they just hadn't updated. Thing thats illegal about 1.00 is that most of the players on 1.00 didn't legitimately buy the game. Thats because the only real reason to play on 1.00 is because of the cd crack.

[Arteen]

Wouldn't you rather enjoy making said content to the best of your abilities by using all the available resources?
Perfection is the enemy of the good.


And Arteen, I understand your points, but when you say you don't need it, does that mean that it was CMT's intention to have to cut a lot of content?
There's a misperception that we're starved for space and will have to cut lots of content. That simply isn't true. All we've cut of any significance due to space issues is the Delta UI, the a10 hangar cutscene, and the d40 legendary cutscene. The UI is trivial, most of us are glad the hangar cutscene is gone, and who really cares about the legendary cutscene? Now that we've cut the UI, we don't really have space issues any more. We're at the finishing stages of the mod; we aren't really adding anything else, and we aren't cutting anything for space issues.

We just want to finish the mod.

[Heathen]

Perfection is the enemy of the good.


There's a misperception that we're starved for space and will have to cut lots of content. That simply isn't true. All we've cut of any significance due to space issues is the Delta UI, the a10 hangar cutscene, and the d40 legendary cutscene. The UI is trivial, most of us are glad the hangar cutscene is gone, and who really cares about the legendary cutscene? Now that we've cut the UI, we don't really have space issues any more. We're at the finishing stages of the mod; we aren't really adding anything else, and we aren't cutting anything for space issues.

We just want to finish the mod.
Then I don't care anymore.

Unless someone can sway me again.

[Jean-Luc]

Then I don't care anymore.

Unless someone can sway me again.

.

[Arteen]

I seriously don't understand. You don't want to play the mod because it won't be perfect?

[PlasbianX]

I seriously don't understand. You don't want to play the mod because it won't be perfect?

Maybe its the fact you have the option of making it perfect but you don't want to take that option.

[Heathen]

I seriously don't understand. You don't want to play the mod because it won't be perfect?
Well actually, I meant that in the way of "I dont care about whether or not you use OS then if its not impacting negatively"

But I would rather it be perfect rather than incomplete, yes.

What plas said.

[=sw=warlord]

I seriously don't understand. You don't want to play the mod because it won't be perfect?
Because the attitude to gave with "we just want to get it done" is the same attitude bungie had for halo 2 and hiredgun had for halo 2 vista both of which were riddled with flaws.
the comment of wanting it out the door asap makes it seem you will do anything even if it is detrimental to your hard work just to get it released.

[PlasbianX]

Quality over quantity. Personally, i think you should be worried about the quality of the work than the amount of people who will play it. Why make something mediocre for 1000 people when you can have something spectacular for 800?

[il Duce Primo]

When did using OS become perfect? That's an opinion and not a fact. Just because we won't be using OS doesn't make it rushed and how would using OS change that?

[Arteen]

Maybe its the fact you have the option of making it perfect but you don't want to take that option.
Perfection is never an option.


I believe Voltaire's original point about "perfection", specifically, rather than simply "better", is that to attain a perfect thing, whatever that is, becomes infinitely more difficult as you near it. So, at some point, you have to cut your losses, and simply say -- "Good enough". This is not a justification for shoddy workmanship or laziness, for that certainly would not be, per se, "Good enough". The point is more to know when to realize that any additional effort toward improvement would result in a negligible improvement, especially in comparison to the effort required.

I did not use that quotation to excuse half-assed work. We're proud of our mod. It's polished (well, being polished), it's pretty, and above all, it's fun. When we do release it, it's going to be more fun, more varied, more exciting, more novel, more balanced, and more polished that SPv1.

We can always add more to our mod. We can always add more and polish more, and make new vehicles and enemies and weapons, and make whole new SP levels and put all our stuff in them. But if we do that, then we will never get the mod done. It's really that simple.


the comment of wanting it out the door asap makes it seem you will do anything even if it is detrimental to your hard work just to get it released.
Yes, perhaps I should have used better wording. We certainly aren't going to release shoddy work.

[AAA]

That Delta UI thing for SPv2 wouldn't be necessary or very pretty if we didn't have a matching ACTUAL Main menu Delta UI, so... It's all good that you cut it, especially for space purpose aswell.

As for the whole OS issue..... not get bold or anything, but...

ISN'T THIS WHY INSTRUCTIONS WERE MADE??

Just write the
1. "consequences vs. benefits before installing"
and
2. "How To Install..."
instructions at the top of the Read ME!!.txt file. Solves the problem for the supposedly refered dummies.

Am I wrong?
If people think your mod is worthy enough for their attention and small efforts to play, wouldn't they pay attention as to how they would go about installing the mod? It shouldn't matter about those who don't feel like doing it to be lazy, you're only supporting the number 2 problem in the WORLD; Laziness.

[CodeBrain]

Korn still needs to make the User Manual for Open Sauce, he said he was doing that back in November:


UPDATE: Expect the first draft of the User Manual in the Thanksgiving timeframe

Oh my god is Korn turning into the non-reliable CAD?!?!? D:

[Rhydgaled]

Simple: You distribute the CMT sounds, bitmaps, and loc map files and the DLLs into one 7zip, and release it as Halo CMT, mapfiles not included. Then you have each map up for download with a readme stating that the maps will not run without Halo CMT.
I think this is a reasonable sugestion, especially if coupled with the installer app idea and a special page on the halomaps website explaining everything.

This page could have two columns, one saying somthing along the lines of:
"To get the basic version of the CMT SPv2 campaign without additional featues, but avoiding possible compatibility issues and installation difficulties simply download each of the map files listed"
and the other saying somthing like:
"For an expanded CMT SPv2 experience download the following package and run the installer app, or download each item seperatly from this list" (the list would just be so if sombody had a random problem with the installer app but understood where everything needs to go they could still get the open sauce version).
The package mentioned would be the "Halo CMT" package plus installer app and 1.08 patch. When this app is run it would ask for your HALO Custom Edition directory, then find out if the 1.08 patch is installed, if not it will install the patch. When you have the patch, it will put the CMT shared maps into the right places and the open sauce .dll and anything I've forgoten to mention. Next it will show a screen with a bunch of hyperlinks to halomaps, linking to each of the sauced campaign maps. If run again it will also detect if you already have all the pre-requisites installed, and skip right to this screen so you can get any maps you haven't yet downloaded.



Maps depend on two shared maps and two dlls. As Dennis stated, that will put off potential players.
Two .dlls? that can't be right. Unless you are refering to the other .dll that some pepole on this thread: (http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16052) needed to get it to work, which I didn't need (mind you that .dll might have been part of one of the SDKs I had to download to get the sauce to compile).


That Delta UI thing for SPv2 wouldn't be necessary or very pretty if we didn't have a matching ACTUAL Main menu Delta UI, so... It's all good that you cut it, especially for space purpose aswell.
Actually, there hasn't been much talk about it, but as far as I know CMT are making a SPv2 UI, like they made one for SPv1. I assume that as they were given permisson to use the Delta Halo UI pause menu they'll be able to use the theme on their main menu too.


Korn still needs to make the User Manual for Open Sauce, he said he was doing that back in NovemberI think he decided to cut back on his work on Open Sauce and prioritise other stuff he was/is working on when there were no, or next to no, early takers. Now that SPv2 has sparked a revival in intrested in Open Sauce he might be persuaded to create that user manual. It might give novice developers enough of an insite into the code to actually start developing Open Sauce.

[FRain]

Maps depend on two shared maps and and a dll. As Dennis stated, that will put off potential players.

.


Jesus Christ, are you stubborn or something? Your logic is completely ridiculous. We've said at least 8 times that if you would use an INSTALLER that would have ALL the maps, it would be easier to install OS, and everything else. By your logic, you've never heard of a .RAR file or INSTALLER that installs MULTIPLE FILES, or contains, MULTIPLE FILES at once.

[Dwood]

Jesus Christ, are you stubborn or something? Your logic is completely ridiculous. We've said at least 8 times that if you would use an INSTALLER that would have ALL the maps, it would be easier to install OS, and everything else. By your logic, you've never heard of a .RAR file or INSTALLER that installs MULTIPLE FILES, or contains, MULTIPLE FILES at once.


It's not stubborn, it's thick.

[PenGuin1362]

Arteen's not stubborn he makes legit points. I personally think OS would not be to much trouble with an installer and would like to see Korn's work be put to some use (plus small file sizes are nice). However, arteen has made decent reasons as to why they don't feel like going through the trouble >_>. While I would like to see OS in there, it's not up to me.

[Heathen]

Frain is right.

[Chainsy]

Heathen is right.

[Heathen]

Duh, do it CMT.

[TVTyrant]

Please use the OS good sirs. I see no reason why you shouldn't.

[hry]

Do the best for the mod.

/end

[FRain]

The thing is, the thread WON'T end here. Masterz will come up with ANOTHER lame, and predictable excuse, or repeat of an excuse not to use OS.

[Amit]

Oh my god is Korn turning into the non-reliable CAD?!?!? D:

Not unreliable, but unexpected.

I think this debate is drawing near to the end seeing as it has already been said numerous times that both could be made. If this is the case I hope CMT doesn't try to pull a fast one on us by saying OS version is in development, release the Vanilla SPV2, and then drop development on the OS version altogether. That was really soil CMT's name. Not like it would matter to the "novice" user who has no knowledge of what CMT really is.

[Advancebo]

Not unreliable, but unexpected.
Not like it would matter to the "novice" user who has no knowledge of what CMT really is.

CMT is an epic 1337 guy that makes really cewl maps like my all time favurites snow grove with realli sweetz weapons that are from h2 and h3.

/noob rant

[t3h m00kz]

This argument on both sides was the same as it was 38 pages and two threads ago... sigh.

Chances are nothing's going to get done with both sides thinking their opinion is FACT. Be more considerate of each other, people

mother of ffffffuckkkkk

[JDMFSeanP]

You all bitch too much. Honestly I just came here to try to be entertained and you all are trying to have a gay orgy over halo problems. Calm down a little and write legible posts without screaming your ass off over the internet to everyone that disagrees with you, then your opinion might be valid.

[Arteen]

Jesus Christ, are you stubborn or something? Your logic is completely ridiculous. We've said at least 8 times that if you would use an INSTALLER that would have ALL the maps, it would be easier to install OS, and everything else. By your logic, you've never heard of a .RAR file or INSTALLER that installs MULTIPLE FILES, or contains, MULTIPLE FILES at once.
An D2U/H2CE-style installer is perfectly fine as an option for distribution, but it's impractical as a long-term distribution solution. We can release an installer if people really want it, but that can't be the only way to get the maps.

Also, apparently OS crashes Sapien? Lame.

[FRain]

Only one person said that, so don't take that as THE WORD OF GOD. I've seen zTeam use Sapien and they use OS.

[Arteen]

It crashes Sapien for me, too.

[Cortexian]

So all I'm getting is this:

CMT wants to release a pirate-friendly version of the game so that they can flaunt their e-peen to a larger audience. As opposed to supporting the real community and releasing a "demo" for pirates to encourage them to buy a legit copy of Halo for the PC.

It makes perfect sense you guys! Release it on 1.08 would be the correct thing to do, but releasing it for the pirates gets CMT it's cashcow fanboys!

Now, I have two buttons behind my desk here Masters. One supplies your city with power releases your new content for 1.08 only, the other releases the hounds. Do the right thing.

[TeeKup]

Now, I have two buttons behind my desk here Masters. One supplies your city with power releases your new content for 1.08 only, the other releases the hounds. Do the right thing.

:lmao:

[Sabre]

Now, I have two buttons behind my desk here Masters. One supplies your city with power releases your new content for 1.08 only, the other releases the hounds. Do the right thing.

:lmao:

[chrisk123999]

Why not use OS to make a built-in version changer?

[jcap]

If you absolutely agree and promise with everything to make both, then I'll settle for the common ground.

I won't leave you in the dark with the task of making an installer. I'd take that responsibility myself to make it. If it works out as I plan, it will be damn badass too. All you have to do is provide me with the resources necessary to do so.

(I still think the best option would be a demo for 1.0, as long as we find the cause of OS crashing CE on startup.)

[Heathen]

If you absolutely agree and promise with everything to make both, then I'll settle for the common ground.

I won't leave you in the dark with the task of making an installer. I'd take that responsibility myself to make it. If it works out as I plan, it will be damn badass too. All you have to do is provide me with the resources necessary to do so.

(I still think the best option would be a demo for 1.0, as long as we find the cause of OS crashing CE on startup.)
I support the demo idea.

Even I, the cheapest fucker outside of Israel, gave up TEN WHOLE DOLLARS for this game.
Shit, if you want your money so bad, just steal the damn game from walmart.

Its just as bad as piracy and twice as cool. :cool:

Get 10 dollars. Get two friends with 5 dollars each. Walk dogs or baby sit. Suck a dick or two.
But if they are too lazy and cheap to go buy the game, for fuck sake don't cater to them.

[Rhydgaled]

I've already said this, but it appears to have been lost as the thread moves so fast, so I've reposted the more important part of my message.


Simple: You distribute the CMT sounds, bitmaps, and loc map files and the DLLs into one 7zip, and release it as Halo CMT, mapfiles not included. Then you have each map up for download with a readme stating that the maps will not run without Halo CMT.I think this is a reasonable sugestion, especially if coupled with the installer app idea and a special page on the halomaps website explaining everything.

This page could have two columns, one saying somthing along the lines of:
"To get the basic version of the CMT SPv2 campaign without additional featues, but avoiding possible compatibility issues and installation difficulties simply download each of the map files listed"
and the other saying somthing like:
"For an expanded CMT SPv2 experience download the following package and run the installer app, or download each item seperatly from this list" (the list would just be so if sombody had a random problem with the installer app but understood where everything needs to go they could still get the open sauce version).
The package mentioned would be the "Halo CMT" package plus installer app and 1.08 patch. When this app is run it would ask for your HALO Custom Edition directory, then find out if the 1.08 patch is installed, if not it will install the patch. When you have the patch, it will put the CMT shared maps into the right places and the open sauce .dll and anything I've forgoten to mention. Next it will show a screen with a bunch of hyperlinks to halomaps, linking to each of the sauced campaign maps. If run again it will also detect if you already have all the pre-requisites installed, and skip right to this screen so you can get any maps you haven't yet downloaded.
Does anyone see anything wrong with that plan? Yes it allows the pirates to get their hands on the mod but if they can pirate the early versions I can't see why they couldn't get a pirate copy of v1.08. Even if v1.08 has some magic anti-pirate system, v1.08 users still get features like multi-team vehicles (boarding) and hopefully smaller map files and the Delta Halo pause menu.

[nooBBooze]

Idiot here,
I have 1.08 running on a >legit version of ce.

[Dwood]

A "demo" Spv2/Open Sauce would be awesome for 1.0, lol.

Maybe it would give Microsoft some initiative to update xD

[sevlag]

i second the idea for a v1 demo for thoe pirates, just like what they did with the halo trial :D marines runnign around a burning death island was funny to see

[Needles]

So would it try to upgrade me if I use version changer with a special v1.07? I really like yelo and bitter banana's FOV hack.

[ODX]

So would it try to upgrade me if I use version changer with a special v1.07? I really like yelo and bitter banana's FOV hack.Using the Version Changer, you change your game version at the main menu. Therefore, you can change it to 1.08 and the game will think you're on it so the it won't try to make you update.

[Needles]

Using the Version Changer, you change your game version at the main menu. Therefore, you can change it to 1.08 and the game will think you're on it so the it won't try to make you update.

Ah ok, I was scared it would try to make me update before I get a chance to start the main game window with console.

[jcap]

You simply cannot use ANY exe other than 1.08, regardless of version changer. That means you cannot start the game with 1.07 and then change the version to 1.08 and expect OS to work. The game will crash on startup.

There is a chance, however, that Yelo Battery will be updated/included with the next release of OS. It would be nice to have a "fov x" console command to set an exact FOV value. If not, you can always use SkysTheLimit, by Limited.

[.Wolf™]

Well Gentlemen i think we got an agreement.. Shake hands and and say im sorry and hug eachother:O

[Amit]

Well Gentlemen i think we got an agreement.. Shake hands and and say im sorry and hug eachother:O

And who the fuck are you? That is some shit that NEVER happens. Only compromises or nothing gets done.

[.Wolf™]

The question is. Who are you?

[p0lar_bear]

That's it.

I've had enough.

Everyone shut the FUCK up.

I've been quiet about this for the sake of not getting involved past throwing in my two cents. But I just can't sit by idly anymore.

Masterz. You've been shooting down every argument with flawed logic and ideals. You think your way is the best when everyone presents clear evidence to the contrary. I don't care about what the points are, the fact remains that every time you're proven wrong, you seem to cover up your ears and go "alaalalalalalal i'm not listening~"

Jcap. As stubborn as he's being, stop picking fights to play out this pointless and fucking stupid ass vendetta. He's made it clear he's not changing anything, and obviously nothing is going to change his mind. The counter-arguments your may be presenting are different with each time, but it's the same fucking thing over, and over, and over. I- hell, everyone is tired of seeing it.

I'm locking this (yes I still have limited admin abilities, but I still don't want to be regarded as active staff) and leaving it out in the open long enough for people to see, where afterwards I will be sending it to the deepest reaches of the trash can.

End of the line. I don't want to see any posts after this.